Should’ve sent the P-47 to korea instead of the P-51

@johnsaia9739

6 ай бұрын

No doubt about it.

@EffequalsMA

6 ай бұрын

Sent the Corsair instead to rep the air cooled crowd......

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

The P-47 wouldn’t have done significantly better. Both were out of date by then.

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

@@johnsaia9739 Why?

@drgondog

Ай бұрын

All P-51D force in S.Korea and Japan and Australia and New Zealand when war kicked off.

great video! One small suggestion... the backing music is almost drowning out the commentary... maybe re-master it? Given the explanations involved in this, you've done a superb job in presenting it... but the music volume... >.

The size and structural strength of the P-47 enabled the installation of first one, than a total of three hardpoints to carry disposable fuel tanks. It was not until August of 1943 that the first belly tanks were used on the P-47; it took until January/February 1944 that wing pylons and their associated plumbing were installed. That enabled the resumption of deep penetration raids culminating in the "Big Week" of 19-25 February 1944. The P-47 was by far the most numerous fighter in the 8th AAF at the time.

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

External tanks were not the answer to the P-47’s problems. Only internal fuel could have changed the situation. Internal fuel is what determines range. Drop tanks are only a Band-Aid solution and have their limitations. At the time of ‘Big Week’, only about 20% of the P-47 fleet had been modified to carry underwing tanks, a long, slow process, performed by crews in the field, that involved cutting metal. On 6 March, 1944, when the 8th Air Force conducted its first raid on Berlin, the vast majority of P-47s could not get beyond the Dutch border. Because they only had the 108 gallon centreline tank. The others, carrying two underwing 108 gallon tanks, could not get quite as far as Magdeburg. The old axiom that you use half the fuel in an external tank getting the other half there means that piling on more and more tanks eventually ends with the law of diminishing returns. At the beginning of 1944, Galland and Beppo Schmitt, who had recovered from his embarrassing performance in the Battle of Britain and become a decent officer, decided that the American escorts should be bounced early to force them to drop their tanks. Not such a huge problem if you’re only carrying one tank but a potential problem if you’re carrying two. So, once again, external fuel can only do so much. This was the product of what appears to be some rather poor planning at Republic. The problem of insufficient range was known as early as the beginning of 1943. The P-47C model - which was still by far the dominant model in terms of number at the beginning of 1944 - carried only 256 US gallons of internal fuel. It was not until the introduction of the D-25 in May, 1944, that the Thunderbolt had more than 300 gallons but even that wasn’t enough and by then the horse had bolted. The Mustang had 269 gallons and used about 30% less fuel. So the point is that Republic has a lot to answer for here.

@drgondog

Ай бұрын

the actual operational introduction of P-47D-15 (or as D-11 were modified) ocurred in mid March 1944. For 56th FG it was 3/18

@thethirdman225

Ай бұрын

@@drgondog Two questions about that, if I may. Firstly, was there any increase in internal capacity with the D-15? Secondly, at what point did the D-15 or modified D-11 become the majority? Or did that not happen before the P-47s were handed over to the 9th AF? I don’t know what date that happened.

@drgondog

Ай бұрын

@@thethirdman225 No. Modified pylon and D-15 dominant after March 1944. D-25 for 370gal

@thethirdman225

Ай бұрын

@@drgondog I’m sorry. I didn’t understand that.

Love the content. Glad that you're back. More please! But can you consider toning down the backing music?

@skeezicks

6 ай бұрын

Damn really? I love it but I suppose it's just personal preference!

Adding the White Bat Audio soundtrack works well. Great video.

Ugly? I think the Thunderbolt is beautiful.

@hushkit6817

6 ай бұрын

I agree!

thank god you’re back. You should do more top 10 videos if you want to game the algorithm

I'm a fan of Greg's channel, too.

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

I’ve read far too much history to be fooled by him.

@jacktattis

29 күн бұрын

@@thethirdman225 Yes and this bozo narrating is just as bad.

Great to see you doing videos again - thanks

excellent

I LOVE the Jug! As a Brit I think it’s just so…well, AMERICAN! Big, shiny, powerful and guns - LOTS OF GUNS! Ironic really considering it’s designer came from Russia. Well, Georgia actually- but the one that was in Russia not the US. 😂👍👍❤️

@johnsaia9739

6 ай бұрын

He was a US Citizen at the time and understood that Americans like to have all our servicemen have the chance to vigorously excercise their "Second Amendment Rights" on the enemy. LOL!

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

One of its problems was that it had too many guns and too much ammunition. That appeals to American gun heads but aircraft designers know that weight is always a major consideration in design. And it wasn’t just the weight of those extra guns and ammunition, it was the extra structural weight and components needed to support them. They’d have been better off with four 20mm cannon.

@jacktattis

Күн бұрын

@@thethirdman225 Oh yes it was large enough to have six

@jacktattis

Күн бұрын

Lots of guns does not mean best shots

Good video.

Thanks, Hush!

I will grant you it's the largest piston single fighter ever to enter mass production, but not the largest piston single fighter ever built. The Boeing XF8B-1 made the Thunderbolt look like a Chipmunk

@MrRobster1234

6 ай бұрын

I was thinking the same...

@jacktattis

Күн бұрын

The Boeing was not in WW2

Loving the AI generated frankensteinbolt . Both aircooled radial AND inline watercooled V12 motors.

More is sometimes more.

IMHO, the P-47 D 28 was the best fighter of WW II along with the P-47 N in the Pacific. If I had a choice of ANY WWII aircraft to go into combat in Europe or the Pacific it would be the P-47. Too many "pros" to not consider.....

@bobwilson758

6 ай бұрын

Absolutely agree ! Thanks -

@richardmontana5864

4 ай бұрын

So do I. 100%! Facts! Republic Aviation rules!

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

@@richardmontana5864 Then why did it take Republic almost 18 months to increase the internal fuel tank capacity? Why did it take until the end of 1944 to make the plumbing for underwing tanks a line modification? The P-47C, which was still by far the dominant model of P-47 at the time of ‘Big Week’, had less internal fuel than the Mustang, which used 30% less (256 gallons v 269). This problem was never truly addressed. The P-47D-25 still had only 305 gallons and the line mod to add underwing tanks was not made until the -M model, which only flew in the last month of the war and had no impact.

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

Anyone who has bothered to read anything knows that Greg’s claims are mostly just navel gazing. I don’t know what he’s smoking but you can’t counter the verdict of history with charts, conjecture and a lot of ‘ifs’. There’s nothing he says that can’t easily be countered.

@richardmontana5864

Ай бұрын

Your wrong.Once the development of the P-47D -25RE "bubble top you now had 270 US gallons internal plus (+) a 100 gallon Aux. tank that when full didn't have the off center g-load that the 51D with its 95-gallon aux. had.

Actually the entire USAF wanted to continue using the P-47 as their primary high-altitude escort fighter. It had killed off all of their experienced pilots. When the first D-15's came on the 1st 51'B's were appearing. So the top brass had the 47 got a new job where the need of a tactical fighter-bomber was needed. The new big war was now on the deck,much tougher than air to air. Although high-altitude escort is still needed, the Thunderbolt had achieved superiority.

@drgondog

Ай бұрын

The D-15 (or Depot modified earlier Ds) did not enter operations until Mid March 1944. The P-51B was operational Dec1 1943, By March 18th, the 4th, 354th, 355th, 363rd and 357th FG were operational in P-51B. Not even the D-15 with 2x150gal tanks could escort beyond mid-Germany (Bremen, Hannover, Brunswick, Stutgart). AAF had no choice but P-51 and P-38 for deep escort to Berlin, Stettin, Ruhland, Leipzig, Regensburg and Munich.

@jacktattis

Күн бұрын

Incorrect ,after the dive tests at RAE early 1944 Doolittle of the 8th insisted on the P51 exclusively

@jacktattis

Күн бұрын

@@drgondog I think you will find the P38 was relegated from escort after the same Tests at RAE in early 44 that saw the P47 relegated

The XP-44-IV ws to have R-2800-7 engine installed. The 'original AP-10/Xp-47 which lost to Curtiss P-46 was powered by V-1710 Allison. The morphed P-43/XP-46 iterations had different radial engine confi incl R-2180 nd R-2600 engines.

The P--47 was a winner where ever it went.

@jacktattis

Күн бұрын

No not in the G/A

Shared with the following caveat: "A good primer for WW2 fighter performance"

Nice job.

@hushkit6817

6 ай бұрын

Thanks

No that would be the old Hurricane. It was in action over the Atlantic , Malta, North Africa, Britain, Middle East, India ,Burma, Malaya The MkIV with the universal wing. 2x 40mm cannon 2 x 30 Cal Brownings 1000 lb of bombs 8 rockets not bad from a plane weighing 8450lb

"Well my P-47 is a pretty good ship Took a round comin' cross the Channel last trip Thinkin' bout my baby and lettin' her rip Always got me through so far" - from Johnny-Come-Lately by Steve Earle.

At 13:40 you failed to discuss the time based increased features to increase he range. Until a Republic 200gal ferry was used in combat July/Aug 1943 the tested Combat Radius was 125-150mi. At that time the P-47C didn't even have the capability to carry a bomb, much less any drop tank designed for either Centerline B-7 racks or wing pylons that arrived with the P-47D-15 in combat ops in March 1944. Even with C/L installed after Sepember 1943, or wing pylons in March 1944 - the P-47D was Not capable of deep ESCORT past mid Germany until after D-Day when the D-25 was aundant in Aug/Sept timeframe. Your video overlooks the time it took Republic to stuff enough fuel to actually make a Berlin Escort - namely the 'bubble top' P-47D-25 to attain operational quantity more than a year after the Schweinfurt-Regensburg mission. The enhancements required, in order, were B-7 bomb rack, the twin wing pyons and plumbing for wing drop tanks and then the increased fuel (370 to 305gal) internally. Even Then the P-47 did not attain range of P-51B/D until the P-47N with not only the 370gal internal fuselage fuel but also modified wings to carry an extra 180 gal internally - plus drop tanks... March 1945. Recall that 11 P-47D FGs were available for Big Week February 20-25 1944, but only 2 P-51B and 2 P-38J FGs. If the P-47D at that time had the range THEY would have been assigned to target escort at Halberstadt, Schwienfurt and Regensburg. But because of range limitations even with 150gal flat tank, the combat encounters were limited to Hannover, Frankfurt. BTW Neal Kearby was #4 behind Gabreski, Johnson and Schilling with 22 VCs so you can say the top three survived the war. After Kearby comes Christensen, Duncan (shot down/evade), Mahurin (shot down/evade), Beckham and Johnson (both shot down/POW), then Dunham at 15VC. Five shot down - all flak By contrast the top P-51ace Preddy was KIA, then Meyer, then Gentile, Wetmore, Eagleston, Carson, Beeson (POW), Herbst, Thornell, England, Godfrey (POw) . Three shot down - all flak . Still, enjoyed the presentation.

_"It was not best in class in any category."_ Uhh, yeah it was. It was the best at all of them.

@jacktattis

Күн бұрын

No not by along chalk . lousy climb ,dive, turn and service ceiling The roll rate was not bad the Armament good. It was very bad on the deck, too large ,too cumbersome and at only 350mph not fast enough for its size

Planning on a Spitfire video in trope?

@hushkit6817

6 ай бұрын

Yes

The 8th AF in England wanted the P-51D more than it wanted the P-47

@alantoon5708

6 ай бұрын

GEN Doolittle made that decision based on simple economics, cost to buy, cost to operate, fuel economy, etc. Doolittle also wanted to replace the B-24 entirely with the B-17.

@Idahoguy10157

6 ай бұрын

@@alantoon5708 … the 8th AF had priority to get what it wanted. But then there’s production limits. If the 8th needed 100 bombers but only 75 B-17’s were available…

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

@@alantoon5708 Doolittle had no say in the choice of the P-51. Doolittle’s job was operations. There is a letter from Hap Arnold to his Chief of Staff, Lt Gen. Barney Giles, from October, 1943, demanding a solution in six months or else. Cost was no object, up to and _including developing an entirely new aircraft,_ as long as it was within six months. Giles was aware of range potential of the P-51 and at the time of that letter, there were already 1,350 of them ready to go. They were suitably modified and sent to England, arriving in December.

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

@@Idahoguy10157 And this was exactly the problem Eaker had been facing.

@jacktattis

Күн бұрын

@@alantoon5708 No that was not the original cause He had asked RAE Farnborough to do dive tests on the USAAF three fighters The results being the P38/P47 had a lower critical dive than the German Two with the P51 being better. It meant the Germans could no longer escape using the dive.

Pretty sure that the AD1 Skyraider was the biggest.

@luvr381

6 ай бұрын

Skyraider wasn't a fighter.

Whoa,a hushkit video

This is good stuff but the music is unnecessary

Don't need Greg's info.I already know it.

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

Greg’s info is mostly charts and conjecture. It has little in the way of historical value.

it has a lousy climb 3120 ft/min

The fact your mentioning what greg explains about the range makes me so happy inside amd happy that some people dont fall for the militarys bullshit story

@jacktattis

Күн бұрын

Don't get all thingy my friend Go and do your own research WW2 Aircraft Performance is as unbiased as you will get

@squad-wh4ig

Күн бұрын

@@jacktattis huh

@jacktattis

Күн бұрын

@@squad-wh4ig Go and see for yourself if Greg is genuine

@squad-wh4ig

Күн бұрын

@jacktattis that's a waste of time Greg provided sources that I would also find .. I know enough about aircraft as it is to know this is true everything Greg provides is credible sources .. redoing research that has already been done is a waste of time Greg Is not a dumbass

Better than the Corsair? Maybe…

@johnsaia9739

6 ай бұрын

In certain areas a bit better and in some not quite as good. The P-47 was easier to fly and was a bit faster along with 2 more M-2 .50 cals.

@Idahoguy10157

6 ай бұрын

@@johnsaia9739 …. Fortunately in Korea the Corsair was there.

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

@@johnsaia9739 The extra two guns were unnecessary. In fact, they were an impediment, adding extra structural and equipment weight and complexity for no real gain. The standard armament of six .50 cals was easily enough for WWII. It poses the question why Republic didn’t opt for 4 x 20mm instead.

The AI made thumbnail is so cursed

Have heard of y'all in passing before, however first video. Like the style, but please stop pushing Greg's misinformation. It's becoming toxic in the community. Greg's video on Range is filled with atrocious errors, and he deletes the corrections of historians/SMEs. In that video, he is quoting the wrong page for the P-47 manual - check yourself. He's using the page for the 200gal tank empty. It didn't function at high altitude, nor did the early P-47 have the plumbing for pressurized fuel at altitude. He didn't understand the difference between combat and ferry tanks, nor the issues VIIIFC ATS had with creating a system to pull fuel at altitude, get it built at Republic, then finally get them on planes (long depot). He finally gave a half admittance regarding his errors, but proceeded to attack an excellent published P-51 expert and push the idea the Jugs should've escorted (somehow) at low altitude ranges. If you would like more details let me know.

@hushkit6817

6 ай бұрын

Thanks for this - love to discuss in detail. You on Twitter?

@ME-xh7zp

6 ай бұрын

@@hushkit6817 Negative, no Twitter for me. Any other ideas?

@anObtuseOcelot

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, he has impressive tenacity in the face of refutations.

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

@@anObtuseOcelot Greg has been challenged to a debate with historian James William ‘Bill’ Marshall, who posts as ‘drgondog’ and was banned from Greg’s channel for disagreeing with him. The debate is supposed to happen in April but my bet is that Greg will wave off, citing a dose of the vapours or something.

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

Greg is not a source on this. Charts and conjecture can’t counter the verdict of history, especially when he comes to so many ridiculous conclusions.

Hushkit? I knew a Hushkit once. Made funny videos. The same? Were you in cold storage? DUI perhaps?

@hushkit6817

6 ай бұрын

I have been cryogenically preserved since 2019 - how have the last few years been? Assuming nothing's happened.

@AnonymousAlcoholic772

6 ай бұрын

@@hushkit6817 Outstanding! Now that you’re back I have some hope of conquering my crippling addiction to fast acting laxatives. Pray for me wont you. In any case, glad to see you producing regularly again.

I still love your guys videos, but much like the old days you are still making comically amateurish editing mistakes especially in terms of audio. I feel that these mistakes are serious diminishment on the overall quality of your videos, and is part of whats holding back an your possible success.

@hushkit6817

6 ай бұрын

Glad you're enjoying the videos, what do you consider audio editing mistakes? I may agree or disagree.

@luvr381

6 ай бұрын

@@hushkit6817 At 12:36 the voice audio gets doubled over.

Thanks for bringing some truth to the history of the P47 instead of just restating the same old false narrative!

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

What old false narrative? You mean Greg’s notorious hypotheses? There’s nothing he says that hasn’t been thoroughly discounted. I have done a lot of reading on this and there’s nothing in it. The P-47 was a good aircraft. It shot down over 3,000 German aircraft on the ETO so that verdict is already in. But it wasn’t in the same postcode as that P-51 when it came to impact on the air war. The more you read about this, the more obvious it is. KZread videos are produced for clicks and likes. Books are works of serious commitment and usually a determination to get the best available version of the truth.

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

What ‘false narrative’? That the P-51 was better? Well, it was. The P-47 was good but it wasn’t in the same postal area as the P-51 when it came to impact on the outcome of the air war. Greg has fooled a lot of people into believing their own BS.

@thethirdman225

3 ай бұрын

Someone has been watching ‘Greg’s Airplanes and Automobiles’… Too bad everything he says is conjecture. Charts don't mean anything if historical evidence is to the contrary. So, which 'false narrative' are you referring to?

No need for music. If you must have it for some reason, at least turn it down.

Brilliant British weirdness

😔 Promo sm

I always wondered what happened to the wanker who added the music to the stultifying training videos one would have to sit through in crappy part time jobs as a student/youth. And now I know, you hired him (and it's definitely a him).

@chugs1984

6 ай бұрын

I want to eat Mushrooms and listen to these vidoes Reminds me of the 70s and 80s

Tbh I almost skipped this video because of that hokey, awful, cringe-worthy AI-generated thumbnail.

get rid of that stinky ai thumbnail