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@MrSpirit99

16 күн бұрын

23 pressurized air line (from supercharger (literally loader) to the drop tank (literally extra tank)) 24 overpressure valve 25 check valve you got it right

"The thunderbolt is huge but she's a whole 'lotta Rosie." I think we now need a DCS livery featuring a redheaded pinup with the name "Whole 'Lotta Rosie"

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

20 күн бұрын

Well, it's an AC/DC saying from a bit later, but somehow, I think it fits.

@steffen19k

18 күн бұрын

​@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobilesbut where did AC/DC get it from?

@dukecraig2402

18 күн бұрын

I found a picture of the actual Rosie, the girl who inspired the song, last year digging around on the internet. You could say she has it all.

@kimmoj2570

18 күн бұрын

Doing pinup livery to Jug after song released in late 70s. Over 30 years after war. In speaking thats OK. We all talk todays language (crazy idea, when talking specific era of history, everyone must discuss in language of that era 😅 Between 16th to 19th century most discussion must be in French 😅). But to paint that on P-47... just aint right.

@cabletie69

18 күн бұрын

​@@steffen19k they wrote it.

Never underestimate the capacity for Australian auotmotive engineers to come up with a bodge job better than the original.

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

18 күн бұрын

lol, that's funny.

@jaym8027

18 күн бұрын

The last of the V-8 Interceptors, for instance.

@arffadailey8055

18 күн бұрын

bailing wire ,bog& garden hose & off we go. Look out Bob Semple.

@SoloRenegade

18 күн бұрын

except, it wasn't Australians that did it. It was the American pilots and ground crews themselves that came up with teh mods. Ford in Australia was simply commissioned to build them.

@brookeshenfield7156

18 күн бұрын

“Bodge job”…That’s a McGyver to Americans…

Okay now we're gonna need an hour long video on why you'd build a liquid-cooled radial

@kiwidiesel

18 күн бұрын

No no , it will be an hour long video on why NOT to build a wet radial😂

@johnking6252

17 күн бұрын

government contracts ! 🤪

@ChrisSmith-mi2zo

16 күн бұрын

The Lycoming XR-7755 might be worthy of a video, honestly. Largest piston aviation engine ever built, intended for the B-36, and a liquid-cooled inline radial.

@RogerGibson-pz5wl

16 күн бұрын

😆

@kimmoj2570

16 күн бұрын

You have to ask Junkers. Dozens of engineers used more than half decade on 222. And got nothing workable.

"we have a chart for that" - Greg

@josephking6515

16 күн бұрын

That should be on a T-shirt. 👍

@patricklopes-vtec

9 күн бұрын

Usually I don't care about charts unless they are a comparison between machines, which gives us a better perspective on how they will behave between each other. Many pilot manuals are a simplification of extensive technical charts developed by factories or milit branch offices. But the map comparison between Indonesia and Germany fronts are the major point of the video. Not many people realize that Indonesia is a very big country, same for Philippines and China and Japan. Despite being islands, they are spread, increasing distances for missions. That's why pilots often wanted Thunderbolts and Lightnings instead of Airacobras, Kittyhawks before Mustangs came in. About the brisbane tank, I guess you could use some vacuum somewhere in the fuel pipings to create some pressure instead of developing another mechanical high-pressure pump.

I love how the whole p47 range thing is a thorn in Greg's side and he has the the receipts as to why. Gregs use of primary sources is what makes his videos excellent

@michaeliverson4060

16 күн бұрын

Plus, angry Greg is very entertaining to listen to.

@RogerGibson-pz5wl

16 күн бұрын

Greg is totally excellent!

@Deipnosophist_the_Gastronomer

7 күн бұрын

I'd have more confidence in those red numbers if they actually made red P47s 😉

McArthur had a massive ego. There is no way he'd tolerate sharing the spotlight with a general who was far more famous than him.

@TheBruceGday

18 күн бұрын

Thus no way for Doolittle.

@steveperreira5850

18 күн бұрын

I don’t know why Greg didn’t just say that because certainly it must have occurred to him, I think he was being polite.

@melbyrne

17 күн бұрын

Agree with those points but also sounds like MacArthur picked the right guy for this particular job precisely because Gen Kenney hadn't inhaled the "self defending bomber will always get through" fantasy. Meaning fighters+drop tanks = good thing.

@wdcjunk

17 күн бұрын

Came here to make sure this comment was made.

@jetdriver

17 күн бұрын

@@melbyrneI don’t see anything in Doolittle”’s history that would make me think he would have taken a different tract with respect to drop tanks. I agree with others that MacArthur would never have considered an officer who might be more famous than him. There is simply no possible way to understate the size of his ego.

Douglas MacArthur was too much the prima donna to allow someone as famous as Doolittle around and attracting limelight.

@Zyme86

18 күн бұрын

Until he got back to the Philippines, Mac cost the allies more lives than he was worth. Seriously he should have been retired in 42

@higgs923

18 күн бұрын

My dad joined the USN in 1938. He was a crewman aboard the USS Utah on Dec. 7th. He fought all the way through the island hopping campaign in the Pacific. He despised MacArthur and always referred to him as "Dugout Doug."

@jeffreypurcell4681

18 күн бұрын

He got a lot of Australians killed so as he can claim he stopped the japs before the marines at Guadalcanal !

@Vito_Tuxedo

18 күн бұрын

Nevertheless, it appears that General Mac Arthur made the right choice for the 5th Air Force. It has become fashionable to deprecate Mac Arthur; yet, those who do so seem blissfully unaware of his positive attributes. They would benefit from some actual knowledge on that subject.

@jamess7576

18 күн бұрын

​@@higgs923 And yet my great uncle and grandpa who actually fought under his command had very favorable opinions of the man. Was he vainglorious, yes, but he made some good calls. 1st Marines would have benefitted if Nimitz had listened to him regarding Peleliu. Also his actions in post war Japan are often under appreciated.

The effort the US 5th Airforce flying out of Australia seems very much under appreciated. The ground crews worked in the most appalling primitive conditions. Their efforts were super human.

@bobwilson758

16 күн бұрын

Excellent comment sir - thank you . The Mechanics .

@BobSmith-dk8nw

12 күн бұрын

Yes - and things got much, much worse as they moved to New Guinea ... .

@paulcaine2603

12 күн бұрын

Searing heat and dust VS. Humidity, mud and the mosquito. No good choices happening there for these young men.

@johncarlson3061

5 күн бұрын

My Grandfather was a waist gunner on B-24 crew (SadSack) 5 AAF 380th BG 531st bomb squadron. He was stationed at Long field (Feton) General Kenny, told their group that they were like a (Circus) and the moniker stuck. (Flying Circus)! Grandfather told me that they wished that they could get fighter escorts,but due to the long range strikes their group flew,it wasn't practical. Could you please do a episode regarding their B-24's? My understanding is that they were brand new J - modles that the group flew all way from Consolidated's San Diageo factory. Grandfather told me that they had 2 bomb bays,but only used 1. This was because the other bay housed a 2200gl extra fuel tank. BTW my grandfather Joesph Wells was on the SadSack, which was on the 1st raid to Bailikpan. Hopefully sir,you will consider a episode regarding their specialized Liberators! Thank you,John C.

@guitarfan01

3 күн бұрын

@@johncarlson3061 Hi John, you replied to someone else's comment, which means Greg probably won't see your comment! Make sure to type your comment in directly under the video where it says "add comment" not in a "reply"

Based on everything I have learnt about Dugout Doug on the Pacific War Podcast I'm sure he rejected Doolittle as he didn't want anyone to overshadow him

@rhondohslade

18 күн бұрын

Most likely. He was quite vain when it came to others challenging his apple cart is my understanding.

@williamromine5715

18 күн бұрын

I agree. Doolittle had enough reputation that he could stand up to MacArthur. There's no way MacArthur would put himself in that situation. Luckily, Kenny was able to perform as well as he did. I read that MacArthur kept interfering(sp) with Kenny's plans. One day Kenny put a dot on a piece of paper and told MacArthur that was how much he knew about the use of airplanes, and that Kenny knew the rest of air combat. I don't know if that story is true or not.

@mpetersen6

17 күн бұрын

While l agree Mac had a stadium sized ego l do not think you get to high rank without a large ego. The important thing is to not let it control you.

@alibizzle2010

17 күн бұрын

@@mpetersen6 You should check out The Legend of Dugout Doug-Episode from the Unauthorized History of the Pacific War podcast. They make it clear not just that he was an awful human being but a lousy strategist who was almost universally despised by his fellow officers and those who served under him. Below is a poem written about him by his own men Dugout Doug MacArthur lies ashaking on the Rock Safe from all the bombers and from any sudden shock Dugout Doug is eating of the best food on Bataan And his troops go starving on. Dugout Doug's not timid, he's just cautious, not afraid He's protecting carefully the stars that Franklin made Four-star generals are rare as good food on Bataan And his troops go starving on. Dugout Doug is ready in his Kris Craft for the flee Over bounding billows and the wildly raging sea For the Japs are pounding on the gates of Old Bataan And his troops go starving on...

@cvr527

17 күн бұрын

@@mpetersen6 Far too many including Mac, fail to keep their ginormous egos in check.

The thing that popped out at me when I listened to your debate over P-47/P-51 range in Europe, was that it had never occurred to anyone to standardize not only the tanks for all the various models, but the mountings, release mechanisms, feeding, pumps, etc... I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if this was possible, but it seems to a layman like me, that it could be feasible. It's not like they hadn't foreseen the need for external fuel stores, as all the US fighters had plumbed hardpoints from the beginning. So it baffles me that no one saw the need to say, "we need to standardize various tank volumes, tank mountings, etc... on all of our fighters so that they can used interchangeably."

@snowstalker36

13 күн бұрын

There was standardization when possible. The P-40 and 39 use the same tank for example, and the P-47 was set up to use P-38 tanks in later models. The USAAF just took longer to get there than the other air forces because of the roadblocks put in place against drop tank development and issue in general. There are more variables to making a suitable drop tank than a bomb, Where the internal fuel tanks and lines are much more involved than figuring out a release trigger for a bomb so where they are located will force some constraints on the size and shape of drop tank allowed. Fuel consumption can also drive a need for larger tanks, hitting those limits. I think the P-47 would have had its own special tanks eventually even if there had been some standardization. The P-40/39 tank just doesn't provide enough fuel for the P-47's needs. The P-38 tanks did, but only by using wing stores and belly position is preferred.

@juliancate7089

13 күн бұрын

@@snowstalker36 I understand, but I'm speaking of total interchangeability. Yes, there are conformal tanks in today's Air Forces that obviously are type-specific, but all those droppable tanks - which come in different volumes - are universal and can be fitted to any plane in the inventory that has plumbed hardpoints. That's what I meant. It was certainly possible in the 1930s and 40s to achieve, but it seems to have been the result of short-sightedness in design specs from the military.

@BobSmith-dk8nw

12 күн бұрын

@@juliancate7089 A lot of what was done was done by the Vendors or units in the field - because The Bomber Mafia had specifically sought to discourage any implication that Bombers would ever have a reason to make use of Fighter Escort. It takes some real effort and some real clout to make something standardized and with the people who were dominant in the Army Air Force opposed to them - we are lucky we had what we had. .

@juliancate7089

12 күн бұрын

@@BobSmith-dk8nw Bob, I don't want to seem unkind, but you didn't say anything that wasn't already in the video. Repeating those points isn't an answer and I'm not disputing anything. Also, at the end of your comment, you essentially repeat exactly what I concluded in my earlier comment that the lack of standardization was due to short-sightedness. After doing more research, it seems that the lack of standardization was the norm with very few things being interchangeable between types. Every new type of plane was largely bespoke.

@OnerousEthic

4 күн бұрын

Outstanding insight, but I think you didn’t take it far enough! I think that all supply lines were maxed out, and time and resources were inadequate, but imho parts interchangeably between types and manufacturers would be optimal practice from multiple perspectives, including engineering, manufacturing, documentation, supply chain, etc, etc, etc…

I'm born and bred in Brisbane. and it is Eagle Farm not Eagle farms . Thanks for pronouncing Brisbane correctly .

I need to stop 5 minutes in. The total shit for brains incompetence of senior staffers in the Army Air Force and subsequent U.S. Air Force blows my mind. I will return to this later. Greg your channel is amazing.

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

18 күн бұрын

I feel your pain.

@mo07r1

18 күн бұрын

Sometimes perfect is the enemy of progress

@danweyant4909

18 күн бұрын

The tragedy of the aircrew lost for this.

@jwenting

18 күн бұрын

and they were bright minds compare to their counterparts in the US Navy...

@steveperreira5850

18 күн бұрын

Anyone that is ever been in the military or a big bureaucratic organization knows well that most of the military brass are shit for brains

'Uncle' Greg, you have proven your point beyond any further resistance. All must submit.

@tjh44961

16 күн бұрын

My dad has a saying about ignorant people that I have heard all of my life. "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts!" My corollary to that is that it really doesn't matter what your IQ is, you can still be ignorant. And I've also observed that intelligent people can be so convinced that because they are smart, they couldn't possibly be wrong.

Greg, I am certainly delighted you chose to highlight General George Kenny. The Kenny Reports has been in my library for 45 years. I admire his ability to recognize the talents of his "kids", to think outside the box, and do more with less than any other commander. It would be great to see a video regarding Kenny, "Pappy' Gunn, the Commerce Destroyer B-25s, and skip bombing. I've heard others say skip bombing was developed by the Aussies and Brits, but I believe Kenny and his "kids" were the first.

This video perfectly demonstrates how difficult is to solve even seemingly simple problems

Eagle Farm (no "S") became a landing field in about the mid-1920s. It is famous for Kingsford-Smith's arrival there at the conclusion of the first flight across the Pacific (amongst a few others). The original airport built there was much closer to the City. It was about 5 miles downstream from the main reach of the river, which contained most of the domestic port infrastructure at the town. Larger ships berthed at Hamilton which is much closer to the airport. There was a military wharf there too. There is a major rock bar across the river nearby which ultimately led to all of the port facilities being relocated to the river mouth today. A big bridge goes right above the rock bar now. In 1942 the main airport was at Archerfield which is today a general aviation airport in Brisbane's south. The main RAAF field was and is Amberley just south of Ipswich, a separate city, to Brisbane's south west. Initially, aircraft were unloaded from ships near Hamilton and towed/trucked out to Amberley for construction by the RAAF airframe fitters there. This was mainly P40s and P39s with a few P38s thrown in. B26s seem to have been flown directly into Archerfield, but don't quote me on that one. In February 1942 ships were diverted to Brisbane whilst en-route to the Phillipines. Army personnel were initially bivouaced at the Eagle Farm race course. It was a swampy area with heat, rain and mosquitoes and it was late summer. There was nothing for them to do and movement was restricted. Morale wasn't high. The traffic and general inefficiency required a massive adjustment. The US rapidly decided to fund upgrades to the port facilities and a major upgrade to the Eagle Farm Airport so that aircraft arriving by ship could be assembled there. Additional freight areas were built for storage and redistribution. An amazing amount of those buildings (re-purposed) still stand today and are easily found. A new Eagle farm airport was constructed to replace the WW2 build and was opened during the bi-centenary year 1988. It is to the north of the old airport but shares some of its infrastructure at the south end. Interestingly the first aircraft to use the new airport (before it officially opened) was the visiting USAAF Thunderbird team who decided to put on a full impromptu display there after seeking permission to use the fully ready but not opened main runway. Impressed by the AC/DC reference too! Thanks.

Greg: The detail in this video is the icing on the cake in the already brilliant case you made in your recent debate with Mr. Marshall, in which you effectively devastated the myth that the disastrous 8th Air Force losses in 1943 were due to the unavailability of a fighter with sufficient range to provide escort cover. The Bomber Mafia's refusal to equip P-47s with drop tanks was, in my view, criminally negligent. Superb work, as usual. Looking forward to the follow-up video on actual Pacific theater missions. - Vito

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

18 күн бұрын

Thanks Vito.

@drgondog

17 күн бұрын

Have you considered that your remark might sound a little silly? Your position is that the P-47C, as it existed in August 1943 was capable of escorting 8th AF to Schweinfurt (410mi from Halesworth, 460mi from Debden). Greg's tortuous calculation summary is for a hypothetical 220gal steel tank that is presented with NO escort duties, instead of tethering the P-47s to the bombers, in what the AAF described as a Fighter Mission. All straight line calcs with no essing to restrict ground speed to that of the bombers. The 'charts' reproduced by Greg 1945 - which superceded the 8th AF document - cites the demonstrated ranges as Fighter Mission. Also Note that straight line cruise speed in lower right corner of P-47C Pilot manual for 200gal Republic Ferry tank is 200mph IAS, which at sea level is shown to be ~2.1miles per gallon - not the 2.6 he slipped in for the presentation. The losses WERE caused by P-47C limitations with the only usable drop tank available to P-47C mount scheme for Schweinfurt mission. What could have been possible even if the Republic tank was capable of delivering fuel above 20,000 feet, is speculation becuase only the 7psi version was ever made. At 12:13, the discussion of Australia 200 gal tank notes that it fed saisfactorily to 17,000 feet with the C-9 electric pump (bottom of page). Greg provided anecdotal references to 28 and 30K missons, but has yet to document that the Brisbane tank SOP was to climb above and cruise mostly at higher altitudes until fuel was drained. I posed a simple challenge -prove your beliefs with documented 5th AF Mission Summaries for 348FG missions through December 1943. They exist. hey will have the data including TO and Land times, R/V location and altitudes if escort to C-47 or B-25 or B-24/-17, and Break Escort times.. All required before any range calculation makes sense. I also pointed out that 9th FG P-38s were the LR dominant fighter for bomber escort. Your belief system accepts that the 'bomber mafia' would knowingly risk the AAF strategic bombardment vision based on stubborn belief that the bomber would always get through, when in fact that myth was punctured in Spanish Civil War and BoB. "They HOPED' that the 8th AF could fight its way without continuous escort, but were in process of speeding up LR capability of P-51B and P-38J in mid 1943 before the Schwenfurt- Regensburg disaster smacked the AAF leadership. Certainly 'they' (whether they were Eisenhower or Marshall) regretted pulling P-38s out of 8th AF and sending them to Africa. Consider the differences had the oiginal four P-38Fgs were the escort instead of he 1943 version P-47C?

@cvr527

17 күн бұрын

@@drgondog There are numerous examples of US leadership making arbitrary decisions that cost lives. Abandoning onboard guns in fighters, running convoys at the same time of day, on the same day of the week. Posting small units on remote outposts and beyond the range of fire support. Arbitrarily changing the specified cartridge propellant in the M193 Ball, etc. That is just off the top of my head. Generals & Admirals tend to have enormous egos that override their brains. I have personally seen/experienced this an multiple occasions. At any given moment in US Military history there are as many incompetent Generals and Admirals as there are competent ones. Some who became famous in spite of their incompetence.

@Vito_Tuxedo

17 күн бұрын

@@drgondog - I appreciate your erudite and articulate 4-paragraph burst of factoids, but they are largely irrelevant to Greg's point, as I understand it. The fact remains that Gen. Kenney proved the time-honored maxim, "Where there's a will, there's a way". The point is that 8th Air Force command didn't have the will, leaving you with the belief that there was no way. Actually, you're right; there really was no way if they wouldn't even try.

@Spgonahan

9 күн бұрын

@@Vito_Tuxedo Very funny response.

I never realized how much of a problem a dumb drop tank could become. I just figured it was a fuel-tight elliptical metal tank that could be manufactured by anybody as easy as pie.

THANK YOU so much. The channel UNAUTHORIZED HISTORY OF THE PACIFIC just touched on the Bomber Mafias impact on the Jug fighter and drop tanks. That, with your in-depth knowledge of technology and areonotics, has given anyone that watches a broad learning experience. Thank you. I am assuming that Ford Australia used their expertise with an ENGLISH WHEEL. This is a transferable skill from the automotive industry that could make in the field drop tank fabrication possible.

LOVE that recent color image of the Brisbane tank just past 20 minutes in - it gives me all the structural details the wartime images seem to lack. The hanger hardware is more elegant and slender than the earlier images seemed to indicate. Thanks, Greg! (Edit, after watching to the end) Thanks also for the details on the aft internal tank mod!

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

18 күн бұрын

It would be cool to see the model makers run with this.

@michaeldavis5692

18 күн бұрын

@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles As an experienced model maker, I think some modifications of the 200 gallon "flat" belly tank that some model kits provide is possible. It would be an interesting challenge to modify some of the 1/48 scale "flat" tanks from my spare parts box. The pictures in your video would be a good resource.

@dukecraig2402

18 күн бұрын

That tank is in Australia in the hands of a private collector who snatched it out of a junk yard saving it from being scrapped, the other Brisbane tank that still exists is also in Australia, it's in a heritage museum on top of an antique tractor, after the war someone repurposed it for a fuel tank for their farm tractor, apparently they wanted more range.

@ozatwar

14 күн бұрын

There are at least another 4 Brisbane tanks existing in North Queensland.

If not mistaken an early war Pacific P-47 is under restoration. Maybe contact them and see if they have found where the extra pump went.

I love all the facts and numbers you dig up on your P-47 crusade….

@SoloRenegade

18 күн бұрын

but he leaves out tons of inconvenient details too. like how the P-47 vs P-38 dogfight was intentionally stacked in the P-47 favor. Or how the P-38 were already using 165-300gal tanks in 1943 without interference. or how the P-47 even with a viable 200gal tank still couldn't reach Rabaul in 1943. or how the P-47N even with 1300gal total fuel (570gal internal) still couldn't reach Japan from Iwo Jima.

@JakobM16

17 күн бұрын

​@@SoloRenegade sources

@SoloRenegade

17 күн бұрын

@@JakobM16 Same sources as greg. But here are some titles for you. Pacific Profiles Volume 10 (Michael J Claringbould) Squardons! No.2 and No.23 (Phil H Listemann) General Kenny Reports (George C Kenney), primary source for the comment in question case, read pages 264-265, in which Kenney describes how he stacked teh deck to prove a point, then ended the mock dogfights before the P-38 gained the upper hand and the point of the mock fight was ruined) Kenney also describes how his P-47s lacked range to reach Rabaul and other issues. Negative details Greg conveniently ignores. Kearby's Thunderbolts (John C Stanaway) I have about 40 books on teh P-47, units, etc, with more on teh way, as well as manuals, reports, etc. Pretty much all teh sources greg cites and more.

Jees, where to start. Firstly Greg, thank you for what you do. This is a quality product, my favourite channel by far. Im a relatively clued up warbird nerd, have grown up in an aviation family and work as a powerplant engineer for P&W. This said l have learned so much and really want to commend you. Keep it up. Aviation is interesting, (engineering & flying) WW2 aviation is, in my opinion another level of interesting. Well done. Si, Christchurch, New Zealand.

Great video, the debate left me about 90% sure you were in the right, and I am fully convinced now.

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

20 күн бұрын

Thanks, I'll get up even more receipts in the next video. I couldn't fit them all into this one.

@airplanes42

18 күн бұрын

One million times yes. The naysayers on a certain web forum have been very quiet.....

@SoloRenegade

18 күн бұрын

yet, p-38 were already ranging over the Pacific with 165 and 300gal tanks in 1943 with little to no interference. and P-47 were experimenting and using tanks in ETO anyways in 1943. even in the south pacific with a viable 200gal tank, under the command of a pro-P-47 commander, P-47 still couldn't reach rabaul in 1943.

Eye opening for sure. Fantastic video. Sad how many good men died because of large egos.

Great video per usual Greg, it’s really cool to see some more content on thunderbolts in the pacific, to me at least the pacific thunderbolts always seem forgotten, until you get to the Novembers escorting B29s

@dukecraig2402

18 күн бұрын

There's a P47 November pilot named Martin Jackson who did 2 interviews when he was still alive that are here on KZread, he doesn't say anything about escorting B29's and I don't believe he did, but he flew mission's over Japan on sweeps, one of them was over one of the cities the day after it had one of the atomic bombs dropped on it, I can't remember which one, he had a few interesting things to say about what he observed especially about how all the streets and sideways looked like they'd been swept clean by a giant broom, everything was rubble but there was none on the streets and sidewalks he said. He also tells an interesting story that I've never heard before about how P51's were removed from ground attack mission's, it seems the coral based soil that made up the islands had a tendency to make their .50 cal rounds ricochet back up in front of them and P51's with their vulnerable liquid cooled engine's were flying through their own rounds and shooting themselves down, at first when P51's were mysteriously disappearing during the long flights back to their islands no one could figure it out until some made it back that didn't have their cooling system damaged and the ground crews pulled .50 cal slugs out of them and they figured it out so they removed P51's from ground attack mission's. They didn't have the stellar reputation in the Pacific that they enjoyed in Europe, because of the B29's computer augmented defensive guns giving it an 11 to 1 kill to loss ratio against Japanese fighter's which was higher than the P51's 10.2 to 1 kill to loss ratio after the war the USAAF said in a report that the use of P51's as a fighter escort for the B29 had been a waste of fighter resources that would have been better used elsewhere. Look up those interviews with Martin Jackson, they're pretty interesting.

@whiskey11niner

17 күн бұрын

@@dukecraig2402 thanks I’ll check it out

Small suggestion for future videos: see if you can add a white outline to black text, or black outline to white text, when you overlay it. Or put the text in a contrasting background box. Makes it easier to read without having to pause. Black on partial black (text in the underlying image) is hard to read quickly.

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

18 күн бұрын

That's a good idea. I'm not sure I can do it, but it I can I will.

This is an awesome follow up to the debate and effectively addresses any challenge to the argument that the range limitations of the P-47 were imposed by intrusive “bomber mafia” policy. The argument is airtight!! The fact that Kenney could solve the problem with a little outsourcing is probably all you need to know and Greg goes way beyond that which is great and adds some humor at times to the video.

Greg: there is no one that quantifies the dynamics of the engineering and the relation of the availability of performance to the pilot, and the potential it could have made in the battle space like you do. I cannot express the quality of your insight to the enthusiast like my self that imagines using the machine in time, and facing the theater opposition while trying to wring out survival in a type. Well done sir!

LMAO the Peter-47 picture at 8:30

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

17 күн бұрын

That's actually an interesting read.

Good stuff, Greg, as usual. Looking forward to the next one. I confess that I've never even thought about the P-47 in a Pacific context. I usually think in terms of the P-38 as the USAAF fighter in the Pacific theater until the P-51 arrived. My bad.

@jaym8027

18 күн бұрын

Good point. Eric Bergerud did a magisterial job on the Pacific Air War some years ago in his Fire in the Sky, but I don't recall him making much of the P-47. He did a good job of defending the performance of the P-40 and P-39.

@dramjet7

18 күн бұрын

Check Six by Jim Curran is a great read of P47s in New Guinea and Phillipines.

@jaym8027

17 күн бұрын

@@dramjet7 Thank you for the recommendation. I'll add it to the list.

I read War Plan ORANGE at the Naval Warfare College 16 years ago and I still love the book.

While you've definitely changed my mind on the P-47 with your excellent series of videos regarding this airplane (including this one as the latest), I do hope you'll cover in depth that other somewhat overlooked red-headed stepchild (compared with the Corsair) of WW2 in the Hellcat someday. :) I know you've included it in various videos (like the Corsair and Hellcat vs the FW-190 and Bf-109) but I keep holding out hope you'll cover the remaining R2800 fighter of the war with its own video someday.

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

18 күн бұрын

I will do that.

literally saw Bonnie fly in St. Louis this past Sunday.

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

17 күн бұрын

Nice.

Great work on this topic. It makes a lot of sense. A somewhat related topic are the local weapons that Australia produced when WW2 started and England could no longer be relied upon for supply. The CAC Boomerang fighter, Sentinel tank, and Owen gun being notable examples. They may not have been cutting edge, or ended up being as needed due to US supply becoming available, but it was a very large effort from a small population with a small industrial base.

I could get college credits on WW2 drop tanks after watching these shows. Thanks!

I instantly thought the reason Doolittle not getting job, was a hero with larger than life profile. Dug out Doug would have hated anybody with Public profile be as big as his own.

@clarkenoble

16 күн бұрын

Please reference the lengthy comment I posted on this very topic yesterday. Unfortunately, I think you are peddling more anti-MacArthur propaganda, whether you know it or not. Hopefully, my post will shed light on a different viewpoint for you to consider. Thanks.

Excellent break down. Kenny really did end up being the right person at the right time, as was quite a few WWII leaders. As a side thought think of all the bomber casualties brought on by Bomber Mafia thinking especially in Europe.

Additional Note re:MacArthur. He was very repectful of chain of command and he respected both Marshall and Arnold. His problem was with Brett. Arnold's problem was to replace Brett with a competent leader that could work well with MacArthur. Doolittle was a COLONEL at that time and a couple of years away from being deemed a candidate to command an AIR FORCE. MacArthur's 'ego based adversaries' were Admrals King and Nimitz. Both Kenney and Brett were too low on the pay grade to worry about - even moreso Doolittle. Recall that Mac already had one MOH, plus 2 DSCs and 7 Silver Stars from WWI. He would have respected Doolittle but not as a threat to his limelight. Also recall that Arnold promoted to direct reports Brereton (10th and 9th AF), Chennault (14th AF), Kenney (5th AF - all on the out's pre WWII from the 'bomber mafia'

@clarkenoble

17 күн бұрын

Ha! Thank you. At least I'm not alone in my defense of MacArthur against these ridiculous assertions that he always made decisions based upon ego. One correction to your comment, though. MacArthur did NOT receive the MOH prior to WWII. However, he was nominated for the MOH TWICE before WWII. Once for his actions in Vera Cruz as a captain and then later for his actions in WWI. Anyway, I hope you get to read the comment I just left related to the topic at hand. Have a good day!

@drgondog

17 күн бұрын

@@clarkenoble - I agree with you. If I erred on MOH date, I was thinking he received MoH for Phillipines- context, before Doolittle. I didn't insert '," beween MOH and (separately) those for WWI.

@clarkenoble

17 күн бұрын

@drgondog Ah, I gotcha. Yes, that's correct. MacArthur's MOH was awarded 1 April 1942...before Doolittle entered the picture. I don't know if April Fools Day was much of a thing back then, but perhaps it was a backhanded knock by those awarding it to him. We may never know. I think way too much is made by people attempting to find conflict between MacArthur and other leaders. For example, I don't think he really had problems with Nimitz. General MacArthur recounted in his memoirs that in 1944, when he was recalled to Hawaii, he was not made aware of the fact that the purpose of the recall was to meet with and brief the President in a conference on the future course of the war. He pointed out that when Admiral Nimitz found this out, Nimitz donated the use of his staff and headquarters to allow MacArthur to prepare for his briefing despite knowing that MacArthur would likely be proposing a different plan to end the war to that Nimitz was going to brief. Which he did. The fact that Nimitz did this and that MacArthur recounted it shows that these two men had respect for each other as true professionals should. The only real complaint MacArthur had was that there was never any unity of command and unity of effort in the Pacific war. To this end, he voiced to FDR that he was willing to subordinate himself to Nimitz if necessary. That's not really the thoughts of an egomaniac. Unfortunately, or perhaps even fortunately, neither Admiral King or General Marshall was going to allow one of their major theatre commanders to be subordinates to another service. Such is war!

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

17 күн бұрын

You two are making some great points.

Greg - in the past, I have praised you as a historian, which is indisputable. This time, I'm giving you a shout out for the AC/DC "Whole Lotta Rosie" reference - which is entirely appropriate, give the Australian context of this discussion!

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

16 күн бұрын

Thanks. I'm glad you understood the reference.

MacArthur didn't want anybody taking his limelight.

@External2737

18 күн бұрын

That was my thought. Doolittle was a camera magnet, MacArthur wouldn't abide by that.

@steveperreira5850

18 күн бұрын

For Sure…. That’s what I was thinking!!

@clarkenoble

16 күн бұрын

Please reference the lengthy comment I posted on this very topic yesterday. Unfortunately, I think you are peddling more anti-MacArthur propaganda, whether you know it or not. Hopefully, my post will shed light on a different viewpoint for you to consider. Thanks.

@BLD426

16 күн бұрын

@clarkenoble Will do, and yes, I'm peddling anti-MacArthur vibes.😁

I absolutely love the detail of doing flight calculations! Can't wait for the missions video.

"Whole lotta Rosey" Nice reference 😀

@lqr824

17 күн бұрын

oh, and apropos, it's an Aussie band so it all clicks!

Robert S. Johnson's book made me love the P-47.

Greg you are right with your items 23 to 25. The comment in brackets at item 23 says: from charger to the drop tank. If you run into trouble on german documents, contact me. I will be happy to help. Thanks for your efforts. Best regards.

The fact that Dolittle was famous to the public virtually guaranteed that MacArthur would pick Kinney.

Never ceases to amaze me how many short sighted Armed services can be on allowing details that allow things to work better for all concerned to eventual detrement of forward actions. Even today how often the air force tries to kill the A10. During WWII Look at this tank matter, Look at losses the daylight bombing had before the P51.

Excellent work! Thanks for giving me excellent info for my occasional trips to the National Museum of the USAF with friends and visitors to the area. I’m not any kind of a pilot, so your work is very educational.

I should point out MacArthur thought everyone but himself under delivered, and general kenny was something of a Yes man who Worshipped MacArthur almost as much as MacArthur did

@clarkenoble

16 күн бұрын

Really? Yes man? Interesting. Please reference the lengthy comment I posted on this very topic yesterday. Unfortunately, I think you are peddling more anti-MacArthur propaganda, whether you know it or not. Hopefully, my post will shed light on a different viewpoint for you to consider. Thanks.

Good video, lots of info.Towards the beginning of the video there is a photo of the Brisbane tank built by Ausie Ford that shows the access port toward the front open. It is a round hole and it is secured by 4 blots. That port is large enough to get a good sized fuel pump into the tank plus a float for the fuel level indicator. My guess is that they had an internal fuel pump in the tank and not an external one fitted to bump up the fuel pressure to prevent vapor lock. That seems to me to be the best way to go. Thanks for the excellent explanation.

Name the war and you get leadership with their preconceived notions of what is supposed to be rather than what is effective, such as WWII drop tanks, Korean war no crossing the Yalu to hit Communist Chinese airfields (some later admitted they did) to the heavy restrictions on US fighters over North Viet Nam which basically wiped out much of the superiority of US fighters. Apparently some of those who lead the war feel the need to restrict those actually fighting the war, be it air, sea or ground. Great video and answers a lot of questions of us who don't fly in a very understandable fashion.

My grandfather served under MacArthur in NG his only comment about him was something about a SOB . Only thing he said about it. 👍 🇺🇲

@ZevGross

4 күн бұрын

So he and President Truman saw eye to eye on the subject...

Into the weeds we go, "Brisben drop tanks" The 5th and their field modifications are cool. Excellent video

Was only just getting started with mainland Japan when the war ended “raising hell”, as described by a senior officer at the time

I suspect there could be some confusion re. tank capacity. Ford Australia would be using an imperial gallon, not a U.S. gallon. The imperial gallon is approximately 20% larger than the U.S. gallon.

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

20 күн бұрын

Yes, in fact the Pacific Theater Thunderbolt manual has the capacities in Imperial Gallons with US gallons in parenthesis. However the Brisbane tank holds 220 US Gallons.

@SoloRenegade

18 күн бұрын

no, not how it works. if the US designed a 200gal tank, then modified that tank, then it remains US gal. But as greg points out, the gal designations are not always 100% accurate to their true volumes, just like how engine Cubic Inches are rounded to a nearby value. All US flight manuals will remain in US gal for flight planning as well.

Great video. Big fan of Kirby and his mostly forgotten contributions. Thanks.

post war in australia we had childrens petrol driven merry go round with the tanks being modified to carry children and they lasted to the early 70s

11:31 Wardair was amazing! RIP Max Ward. what a guy!

Couple of comments: At 12:56 Greg missed the first and second paragraph Clear citation that the 21July 1943 report was about 150gal steel WING tanks - not the 200gal Republic paper Ferry tank. At 12:16 from Boylon's footnotes USAF Study 136 - that the tank built in Australia was 'satisfactory to 17000 feet with the C-9 pump. NOTE that Brisbane tank was capable of 16psi. The Republic tank was capable of 7psi but Republic didn't want it pressurized (15:51). It was deemed unsatisfactory by 8th AF Hough, Zemke, Gabreski, Blakeslee, and documented as such by AAF CO Branshaw in letter to Republic - who also pleaded with Republic to install wing racks and internal fuelin June 1943. Note: Greg's calculations were assuming 300mph+TAS inbound with 200gal tank. The difference in the P-47C Chart between Clean configuation (no drop tank) and 200gal Ferry tank was nearly 80mph cruise speed. Both the Brisbane tank and Republic tanks were Very 'Draggy' Note that Greg posed Fighter Mission in which bomber escort was not considered, either for inbound or outbound legs. In other words, not being tethered in Essing with same ground speed as the bombers. Note that the Gph at the bottom of the chart is ~ 2.1gph and 200mpg IAS not 300+Mph and 2.6gph. As to mission profile Greg assumes straight climb to altitude in a straight line for ETO. Zemke states that with the Republic tank, that they took off, formed and switched to circular climb over the base to 12,000, crossed enemy coast while climbing to 22000, dropped tanks near continent coast and climbed (on internal fuel) to 28000 feet. For SW Pacific operations Greg assumes climb from base to 20000+ when there was no operational reason to climb before entering threat zone, either via over water or to clear the Owen Stanley range. His example of the Wewak MoH mission was climbing to 28000 feet after taking off - but doesn't mention that mission was to/from Lae - only 300mi from Wewak and he needed to get there with altutude advantage. Kearby's mission was also a Fighter Mission, not an Escort mission, which was by 9FG P-38s out of Port Morsby (then Dobudora when 348 moved to Finschafen)so his 'combat mission radius with 20 min mil power, according to Bruning, was ~320mi with 200/220gal steel tank. Also there is no evidence that the Brisbane tank SOP was anything but cruise at mid altitudes for 200-250mi at 17-20K, then climb to combat altitudes as planned after dropping the tank. One of these days someone will produce 5th AF Misson summaries for 348th FG to examine the actual historical facts. As to Republic being 'forced' to adapt to B-7 and B-10 rack compatibilty by the mean 'bomber mafia', every ferry tank, combat tank manufactured in US and UK plus every small to mid-sized bomb adhered to that standard. Bell, Curtiss, Lockheed, Douglas, and North American said "OK" - why did Republic expect special treatment? What happened is that they first did not contemplate external stores for their Interceptor including the XP-47, all P-47Bs and the first 132 P-47Cs that were made in 1942. When they were tasked to replace the P-38 in 8th AF, Republic was behind the power curve compared to NAA and Lockheed which had already installed specified and common wing racks and wing tank fuel systems compatible with every other US aircraft itheP-38, A-36, P-51A and P-51B through 1942.. Greg does a fine job of presentation.

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

17 күн бұрын

Hi Bill at 1256 there are two paragraphs. The first is for wing tanks, which I did state. I even talked about the effect of dihedral. The second paragraph is specifically for belly tanks. The point here is that these are unpressurized fuel tanks. The Brisbane tanks was good to 35,000 feet, unpressurized and used in action to at least 28,000. The other stuff including the Wewak mission will be in the next video.

Clearly, your channel is one of the best researched, lucid, and intrinsically worthwhile sites on YT. This topic, in particular, to me, represents a significant revision to the historical record regarding escort fighters in WW2. And it's about time. Scapegoating "droptanks" for the USAAF bomber losses in 1943 remains an historical inaccuracy and should be amended. That the Bomber Mafia held fast to its pre-war mantra is unsurprising: But obfuscation of the historical record to cover up strategic failures serves no real purpose.

26:52 When you consider the Battle of Midway, the SBDs very obviously exceeded their quoted range numbers in their search for the Japanese carrier force. And most of them were still able to make it back to the American carriers.

Re your reference to the loss of 27 P-51s on 6/1/45: fuel shortage had no bearing on this; Mustangs escorting B-29s on mission to Osaka attempted to punch through a solid weather front, encountered severe thunderheads and were flying blind in extreme turbulence; some were lost in mid-air collisions and others forced down by winds.

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

13 күн бұрын

"some"

Amazing how well the US did considering how many branches had these kinds of nonsensical infighting(at least they weren't the IJA and IJN I suppose). Mark 14 torpedo, tank destroyer branch vs armor branch and probably many others caused huge problems that shouldn't have been a problem if people had just rubberstamped something instead of hoarding control.

OMG! Your attention to techcnical and mathematical detail is mind boggling. But on another matter you surpass even that level of expertise. You are the only American I have ever heard correctly pronounce the name "Brisbane". That is, the way we do. Onya mate🍺

Thanks for covering this, I find much of the early period of pacific war it’s often a bit forgotten. (Also props for nailing the almost-native pronunciation of Brisbane 😊.)

I love it when history YTers go to period documentation to make their case. Great stuff Greg. You really laid out the facts and data from the period primary sources.

Coincidences, on top of coincidences. I work just up the road from Hangar 7 at Eagle Farm in Brisbane. Quite a few of the Hangars from WWII are still in use today across Eagle Farm.

Greg, A Very credible set of arguments on the feasibility and effectiveness of early AAF drop tank development. You make another well thought through set of rational arguments on the P-47. Thank you and keep up the really, really enjoyable KZread videos!

I don't understand why McArthur is so highly regarded today.

@Ares-jx4ep

18 күн бұрын

Not that hard to understand. At the beginning of the war he received an MOH for the defense of the Philippines in what could only be a purely propaganda move. He was talked up as some god figure by the media for another decade. There was virtually no critical writings on the man for decades after the war. People read books by fawning "historians" and believe them as gospel. And none of that takes into account just how much effort the man himself went to to portray himself as much more than he actually was. I mean he literally refused to even talk to any reporter or media that didn't fawn over him. He did that right up to the end of his life. A good general yes, possibly one of our best. As good as portrayed?, Not F'n hardly.

@frankemcgillivray6695

18 күн бұрын

Is he really? I don't think so.

@scullystie4389

17 күн бұрын

Yeah while he was a household name and a war hero in the 1940s and 50s I think his reputation ever since has been as the guy Harry Truman fired for wanting to nuke China. Most people with limited understanding of WWII don't know who he was and most people with a good understanding of the topic know he was an egomaniac.

@jagtone

17 күн бұрын

Is he?

@fafner1

17 күн бұрын

McArthur was a good strategist. While he was initially asleep at the switch during the Japanese invasion of the Philippines, his subsequent fighting withdrawal to the Bataan Peninsula generally receives high marks. He continually confounded the Japanese in New Guinea, bypassing and isolating their strongholds. Similarly his bypassing of Mindanao and going directly to Leyte in the Philippines. His invasion of Incheon brought about the collapse of North Korean forces during the Korean War. Unfortunately, he failed to anticipate the subsequent intervention by the Chinese. Not saying he wasn't a narcissist who was full of himself, just that he was on occasion a good general.

Man, the guys on a certain WW2 aviation website are going to be going into vapor lock....

Thank you Greg! Great stuff.

So looking forward to this!

Excellent analysis as always Greg, thank you!

As for the Drop Tank Mafia, you should do one on the Revolt of the Admirals.

Loved the design of the P38 since I was a kid. Mosquito too of course, but you know, it's got wood.

Thanks for the excellent video and research

A wonderful account of the pre and post Philippines attack is The Story of Pappy Gunn, Hero of the Southwest Pacific by Sam McGowan. A lot of the material here is detailed.

Enjoyed this video, and I am looking forward to the next one about operations.

A very welcome return to form. A very interesting video.

Another great video from Greg. He really does his research and homework.

the P47 is the unsung hero of the war as far as fighters go. edit: Glad you mentioned the manual leaning, a lot of people dont know about that either.

@mystikmind2005

10 күн бұрын

Australian here, Yeah, i never heard of it?... i think i vaguely remember hearing the name 'thunderbolt' but in what context i cannot remember? I do know the RAAF was using P40's out of Port Moresby, but they had a rough time of it because of; A) Very rushed pilot training B) MacArthur insisting them to 'dogfight' Japanese Zeros which is exactly what the P40 and most other fighters of the time could not do. (they could 'zoom and boom' tho)

Wow! Thanks for the great information and the PDF. Really interesting video.

Great vid, love the ac/dc reference and the Ward air tri jet. Ward Air was based in my province of Alberta. Love the bomber mafia reference too!

As ever Greg, just a fantastic in-depth look at a subject. Well researched, well edited, well delivered.

I got to see Bonnie (the restored P47 Razorback Greg mentioned) at her firsr airshow debut at EAA last year and by God was she a beautiful sight. I can't wait to see her again this summer

I love Greg's lectures.

I'm of the opinion that McArthur was afraid of having an actual hero in his chain of command, taking him, McArthur out of the spotlight. Your opinion of McArthur may be different, but I guarantee that it will be WAY lower than his opinion of himself.

@clarkenoble

16 күн бұрын

Please reference the lengthy comment I posted on this very topic yesterday. Unfortunately, I think you are peddling more anti-MacArthur propaganda, whether you know it or not. Hopefully, my post will shed light on a different viewpoint for you to consider. Thanks.

@Rubberweasel

16 күн бұрын

After reading Patton's opinion of him after working for him I definitely agree.

Well that settles the P47 drop tank issue for me

@SoloRenegade

18 күн бұрын

then you're too easily convinced. still many flaws here.

When talking P-47/range/bombers over Germany, don't forget to mention the bomber crews that were killed/wounded/captured due to the mafia's "we don't need help" approach. Your work is fantastic, more please...

Greg if i was a fighter pilot in ww2 i wouldn't want to be in any other plane other than Republic P47 Thunderbolt they got the design fundamentally right, personally for me it personifies every thing good about American engineering, i hated aircraft that placed a fuel tank in front of the pilot with the glaring obvious danger of incinerating the pilot in his seat once it was ignited by enemy cannon, or flak impacts etc. Greg your contribution to ww2 aviation technical histories and developments of various aircraft types on you tube is absolutely outstanding in every respect and i hold it in the highest regard and wish thank you so much for all your hard work and endless research on this important subject of ww2. you are the go to person for this type of in depth knowledge and analysis.

Hi Greg, always excited to see another of your videos. My Grandfather navigated in a B24 Liberator for the RAAF bombing Rabaul etc and was flying back from one of those raids when the Japanese attacked Darwin so had to get rerouted to Cairns. I would love any more vids on these guys as I never got to talk to him about it.

Absolutely excellent research and content, Greg. So interesting and entertaining. Really unique work! 😉👍

Excellent episode as usual!

Again, excellent work!

36:57 damn good picture...! Looks awesome, one can only see little white tails cruising

Wardair...wow thats a throwback here in Canada

Hap Arnold only ever came back with his own drink after going to the bar.. ~laughs~

Greg I love the fact that you a/ pronounce Brisbane correctly and b/ added an AC/DC reference re the Thunderbolt!!

@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles

18 күн бұрын

Thanks, I am trying, and I wasn't sure anyone would get that reference. It pleases me that a few have :)

@kiwidiesel

18 күн бұрын

😂 Sensitive aussies and their pronouns iation.

@jonginder5494

17 күн бұрын

Kinda odd that there’s not an AC/DC song called “thunderbolt”?!

Great video Greg !!!!!!!