I wish this video was 4 weeks ago. I'm a new pastor of 5 months total I'm newly reformed of about 2 years and trying to explain calvinism/covenant theology to my sbc congregation. We're going through 1 john on Wed night. It's funny actually because it was this verse that introduced them to calvinism 4 weeks ago and they didn't like it immediately but the next week said they studied and found it is all through the bible. God is in control and I'm thankful for a congregation that is willing to think differently than what they have always been told. Thanks for your videos I've been watching a bunch of them and will watch them all soon. God bless my calvinist brother in Christ.

@ConversationswithaCalvinist

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for the encouragement brother!

@jameshoyt3692

Жыл бұрын

I highly encourage you to listen to the channel - beyond the fundamentals. Listen to his videos on ephesians 1, and predestination. As a pastor you have a greater responsibility to teach the word correctly.

Thank you for making this video!

I'm surprised to see such a solid defense of Limited Atonement coming from The Methodist! 😜🤣

Yeah I believe other verses could of used. This is from my notes... John 2:2 NASB20 - and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (So does "whole world" mean everyone? If so does it mean "everyone" in this next verse.....) 1 John 5:19 NASB20 - We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. (Do us believers lie in the power of the evil one? No, of course not. We are under the power of the Holy Spirit so "world" does not mean every person) (Also, In 1 John 2:2 the word "propitiation" means to take away the wrath of God. So did Christ take away the wrath of God for every person? Look on these next verses... John 3:36 LSB - (36) “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Romans 5:9 LSB - (9) Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. (So it is obvious that we, Christians, have no wrath upon us because of the blood of Christ. But people who are disobedient to Christ have the wrath of God upon them which means Christ did not "propitiate" on their behalf for if He did they would not have the Father's wrath upon them.) Hope this was cool and helpful.

I hope you can deal with 2 Peter 2:1 in the future. I would like to know what it actually means in its proper context of the passage as well as the rest of the book of second Peter. How do we deal with this passage and affirm limited atonement?

@lawrencestanley8989

Жыл бұрын

in 2 Peter 2:1, Peter isn't making a statement about the atonement here. In this verse, he uses the Greek word δεσπότης (despot), translated as “Master,” and while this term is used in several places to refer to Jesus, in all of the nearly 30 times that this word is used (20 times in the Septuagint, and 10 times in the New Testament) it is never the word that is used to refer to Christ in a salvific sense as the Redeemer or the Mediator. In fact, it is never used as the redemptive title for anyone, even in Jude 4. Whenever Christ is referred to as Mediator in scripture, one of His redemptive titles is always used, titles such as the “Lamb of God,” or, the redemptive price is made explicit, or it is stated in the context. The word “despot” however is applied in scripture in order to emphasize some aspect of God outside of redemption, such as: o The sovereign master who has ultimate power over His slaves (Luke 2:29) o The creator of all that is (Acts 4:24) o The master of a household for whom the slaves work and owe their allegiance (2 Timothy 2:21) o The sovereign judge of all the world (Revelation 6:10). The word is also used elsewhere to speak specifically of the master-servant relationship in places like Titus 2:9 and 1 Peter 2:18. *In 2 Peter 2:1, we see that the master bought slaves, and the slaves owed the master allegiance as their sovereign. Doctrinally, this analogy can be viewed as the responsibility for all mankind to submit to sovereign God as slaves, a notion which false teachers reject.* He also uses the term αγοραζω, for “bought.” While this word is the standard word for “to buy,” “to redeem,” “to ransom,” used 31 times in the New Testament, in every instance where it is being used in a salvific sense, it is always listed along with the purchase price, such as “redeemed by the blood of Christ,” or the purchase price is made explicit in the immediate context that clearly restricts its use to believers only (cf. 1 Corinthians 6:20, 7:23, 1 Peter 1:18-19, and Revelation 5:9, 14:3-4), and in this instance at 2 Peter 2:1, we do not find that kind of explicit language; here the word might better be translated as “acquire,” or “obtain.” Furthermore, wherever this word is used, it is never used in a hypothetical sense (which would be necessary if Christ redeemed absolutely everyone, including the non-elect), but rather, it is always used where the buying or the acquiring actually took place. If this passage was speaking in a salvific sense, this would be the only instance in scripture where we do not find that kind of language. As a matter of fact, this word αγοραζω is used some 20 times in the Septuagint, but never once is it used to translate the two great Hebrew redemptive words “gāal” for “redeem,” or “pādāh” for “ransom,” or “purchase.” *If 2 Peter 2:1 teaches that Christ died a substitutionary death for the false teachers, how is it that in verse 12 of the same chapter, these same individuals are described as “unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed,” who “were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation” (Jude 4). If this passage teaches that Christ redeemed those who were at the same time long beforehand marked out for condemnation, it turns God into a schizophrenic.* In this passage, Peter is simply stating that Christ has absolute power and authority over all His creation including the false teachers because He is their creator. See Deuteronomy 32:5-6 for a parallel of this, where God is said to have acquired Israel as a covenant nation (bought her), though they rejected Him. I hope this helps!

@guillermodominguez8643

Жыл бұрын

Very good breakdown of the text! Helped a lot

@DBHunter1

Ай бұрын

@@lawrencestanley8989 Nice !

Would love to have a dialogue with you anytime

The 1 John 2:2 says WHOLE world not just world. In addition, John 12:19 is using hyperbole and uses only “world” not “whole world” not making a theological statement these are apples and oranges. Certainly “World” does not ALWAYS mean every single person, but you can’t assume the opposite either we need strong evidence to show that John is using hyperbole here. John went out of his way to clarify it with WHOLE WORLD. In his clear theological statement.

@darryld.8616

6 ай бұрын

Yeah I believe he could of used other scriptures. This is from my notes... John 2:2 NASB20 - and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (So does "whole world" mean everyone? If so does it mean "everyone" in this next verse.....) 1 John 5:19 NASB20 - We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. (Do us believers lie in the power of the evil one? No, of course not. We are under the power of the Holy Spirit so "world" does not mean every person) (Also, In 1 John 2:2 the word "propitiation" means to take away the wrath of God. So did Christ take away the wrath of God for every person? Look on these next verses... John 3:36 LSB - (36) “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Romans 5:9 LSB - (9) Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. (So it is obvious that we, Christians, have no wrath upon us because of the blood of Christ. But people who are disobedient to Christ have the wrath of God upon them which means Christ did not "propitiate" on their behalf for if He did they would not have the Father's wrath upon them.) Hope this was cool and helpful.

Christ died for sinners. That should spell Universalism, since everyone in the world is a sinner; but the meaning changes when you put it in context with the whole world as it has always existed from the fall. Most people in the world do not see themselves as sinners in desperate need of a savior or worthy of an eternal hell, and most just don't care. Why is that? Is that something you think you can answer? Go ahead and try. And even people who confess to be sinners are only sinners as they are willing to define the term by the condition of their own fallen conscience, something every false religion possesses, for all the good it does them. But sinner in this context are only those who have been truly convicted of sin as defined and contrasted with the holiness of God by the promise Jesus laid out in John 16:7-11, and that is an entirely different interpretation of the term 'sinner' than any religious man can define. That's what separates the wheat from the tares.

Kosmos is used consistently by John to always mean the entire fallen, sinful world under the influence of Satan. You cannot disprove that. John never uses the word kosmos in salvation related verses to refer to the church or o believers.

@jameshoyt3692

Жыл бұрын

There are many verses that refute limited atonement. But the calvinist don't really believe scripture when it contradicts their false system. I'm not sure how they can trust anything in scripture. God loves everyone, but really hates most people. God tempts no one to do evil, but he actually determines all evil. You are responsible(able to respond), but he decrees you with a nature that makes it impossible to respond to the gospel. It's insanity and makes God the author of confusion.

@DBHunter1

Ай бұрын

Yeah I can. John 1...where the term means three different things!!!!

@DBHunter1

Ай бұрын

@@jameshoyt3692 Really? Nope. But give it a shot sometime.

@jameshoyt3692

29 күн бұрын

@@DBHunter1 what EXACTLY do you disagree with in my comment? Use scripture and reasoning to show me where I'm wrong, and don't jump into other topics. Good luck.

@shakazulu365

29 күн бұрын

@@DBHunter1 FALSE. John is NOT schizophrenic, calvinism is.

You’re using a clear exaggeration of the word world (when Pharisees are dismayed at how many are following Christ) to cloud the meaning of the word when used by John in 1 Jn. The same for your example of the guy on the Ligonier video who says he’s been all over the world but not China. It’s disingenuous. John did not write to a primarily Jewish audience such that “we” are Jews and “the world” is gentiles. He wrote to believers where “we” are believers and “the world” is unbelievers. And he didn’t say that Jesus was propitiation for people or people groups but for SINS. The sins of the whole world. Since each individual is a sinner, He made propitiation for all. You seem to think it’s unjust for Jesus to pay for sins and then the unbeliever also pay for them later. Take it up with God. It’s what the scripture says. When Jesus tells the parable of the unforgiving servant, in the beginning his debt is canceled but in the end he is thrown in jail to pay it back completely. Those who trample under foot the son of God are justly condemned. Also regarding John 3:36-if the elect are under the wrath of God before they believe, then how is that different from the non elect being under that wrath also, since propitiation was made centuries ago?

@DBHunter1

Ай бұрын

Nope. Are we doing biblical exegesis here or eisegesis friend? The phrase whole world was used as hyperbole in the time that John wrote and in a Jewish context. John was a Jew! "The whole world has gone after Jesus..." No one is clouding anything. Besides, that is an assertion by you and you haven't refuted the point he guy made on that. Besides, taking it literally the whole world didn't lie under the sway of the wicked one...else you are saying John's readers did as well, which is unbiblical. John makes a clear distinction between those in Christ and those outside of Christ. The parable is not about salvation isn't about Jewish unrighteous and hypocrisy during the time of Jesus. You can't use it here.