I am new to the party🎉 I also am willing to listen, and slow to speak. I am a school board member at the high school level , and we are all universal in addressing these issues. We shall overcome , and walk hand in hand!

For clarification, this is the actual wording used by Beverly Seese, the 5th Principle Project’s UUA board candidate: “I acknowledge the desire of many, especially younger and/or marginalized-identifying members, to take our religion in a profoundly different direction. I believe this is the wrong approach. But we do not need to be antagonistic toward one another. UUs have always been welcoming of other perspectives and opinions. I wholeheartedly support helping a other branch of UUism to be formed, that is more attractive to the aforementioned folks, (Maybe named 21st Century UUs) if attempts to respectfully discuss differing positions continue to be thwarted.”

@uuamherst

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the clarification.

The excesses of the UU purity spiral are going to be studied for decades.

Thanks for this. I am currently studying both sides of this controversy. This sermon is clarifying and easy to follow.🙏

In 2014 myself and my wife joined Valley Unitarian Universalist Congregation in Chandler. We had been life long Jehovah's Witnesses. One question we asked Rev. Andy during our potential new member orientation was if UUs disfellowship. He said "no" and with that assurance we moved forward with our membership. We're now members of the First Universalist Parish here in Vermont. It is hard to express just how upsetting the process of disfellowshipping within the JW faith can be. An openly gay JW youth will be disfellowshipped and then face life-long strict shunning from friends and family. Are the JWs wrong in such harshness? Of course I believe they are. But... their response is, the wayward member is promoting a point of view that is contrary to the principals of the faith. Thus I would encourage all UU thought leaders to think carefully about practicing a form of exclusion as a means of creating internal harmony. For the moment I am not worried UUs will embrace JW theology in this aspect, but, I do think we need to be careful. With kind regards, -Randy

@uuamherst

8 ай бұрын

Thank you for your comment and observations. It must be quite a transition from JW to UU, and you have all our support. On the issue of defellowshipping, your Rev. Andy is correct that there is no official disfellowshipping of members at the national level. (Ministers may lose their ordination for cause.) That is not to say that disruptive or problematic persons do not occur within the congregations for any number of reasons. These may be made unwelcome, unofficially shunned on a social level, or removed from membership if/when attempts at mediation have run their course. These occur at the congregational rather than at the denominational level, as a long-standing policy of both Unitarians and Universalists.

@Renagerda

4 ай бұрын

Unfortunately, Reverend Eklov was “ disfellowshipped “ for writing a book criticizing some UU beliefs.He now has his own UU congregation in Spokane ,Washington. Another even more unfortunate case was the one in which Reverend Kate Rhode was charged with “ harm” but not told what the harm was or who accused her. She lost her pension , which she had earned after 40 years of committed dedicated work as a UU reverend. She is now suing the UUA for damages.

@randygalbraith2553

4 ай бұрын

@@Renagerda Thanks for responding. I knew of Rev. Eklof being designated "disfellowshipped." However, that is about all I know. I haven't read his book but rather a few news articles that reported on the story at the time. I had not heard about Rev. Rhode. Jehovah's Witnesses have felt intense opposition. Many died in Nazi concentration camps. Alas, it does not always follow that groups who face opposition won't in turn show a lack of tolerance to in-group members deemed not fully faithful. If we're not careful could easily build up a view of what a "good" UU acts like then feel betrayed by seeming deflections. Our focus on words can raise awareness. How does "standing for something" sound to those physically unable to stand? I probably would never have thought of that until becoming a UU. So in my post I'm gently suggesting that "disfellowshipped" hits the ears of an Ex-JW with thud followed by a tinge of sadness such a phrase was used by new faith. With kind regards, -Randy

I really apreciated the nice and it seemed mostly fair treatment of the epiccenters of the conflicts brewing. What I hear from many that is not addressed here is that they share the commitment to undermining systems of oppressions and combatting and seeking to overcome forces of racism and racial superiority. But they take strong issue with the stratagem that many among us and teh national offices are adopting and more than that see those stratagems setting us up to further entrench ourselves in some of our most pernicious modalities of participating in oppressively treatment of teh marginalized and the forces that keep us as a society trapped treading waters and reproducting the status quoe rather than attempting true change in the system. A great treatment of this which proceeds the whole Gadly thing was the paper Thandeaka wrote calling out the misguided direction of our antiracist ework as she saw it, I wish there where an equally sussinct articulation of the role UUs have been playing in the propagation of a liberal exppression of deeply felt generations oold disgust and dehumanization of gay and lesbian people so that we are leaders in the promotion of some of the most expilicit forms of sexual violance against gay people that any society has ever exhibitted and briliantly it is all fuelled on the admirable impulses toward compassion and acceptance.

Powerful sermon. Is there a written copy of it that you could share?

@uuamherst

Жыл бұрын

I will ask Emily.

A schism within the UUA won’t matter at this point. This sect is increasingly small and even more increasingly irrelevant.

@uuamherst

Жыл бұрын

The impending demise of Unitarianism has been predicted since 1553. Universalism, a younger tradition by about 300 years, has borne the same malediction with equal tenacity. Post-COVID, UU numbers have shown a slight dip in membership and congregations, but holds firm. Compare mainstream Protestant Christianity and Evangelicals, which are approaching wholesale collapse. Unitarianism and Universalism have always been small but hardly irrelevant.

@courtneymcbride2001

Жыл бұрын

@@uuamherst the last time the UUA posted their membership data was in 2020. I’ve not seen any stats since then. I was a UU until 2020. Their entire anti-first responder rhetoric coupled with rigid dogma led to my exit. The vast majority of the congregants at my church were over 70 years old. Very few, if any, young families or people in their 20s and 30s. It’s hard for a church to stay relevant if it goes extinct. And the UUA is on borrowed time.⌛️🦕

@uuamherst

10 ай бұрын

@@courtneymcbride2001 Sorry to be so long responding -- not to be obtuse, but what is "anti-first responder rhetoric" ? Geriatric congregations are indeed a problem in UU and churches generally. Hopefully the rising tide of "nones" will find a home in Unitarian Universalism.

@elKarlo

5 ай бұрын

@@courtneymcbride2001 UU never stood for anything. Now that social justice is basically a new religion it will appeal to many. UU is being hijacked by it, but most who like SJ will leave, as UU offers nothing that SJ does not. Basically UU is being eaten from the inside and has no pillars to fall back onto.

"People of the wide path." Jesus said: Enter ye in at the strait gate: For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

@uuamherst

Ай бұрын

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Tres dioses, dios el eterno padre, y su hijo Jesucristo,y en el espíritu Santo, iglesia de Jesucristo de los santos último días mormón masón

You said " in order to change you have to be open to new thought, new ideas". So are you willing to be open to God who is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

@uuamherst

10 ай бұрын

A rather leading question. What suggests to you that UUs -- individually and congregationally -- are not open to the God you describe?

@pmoore3269

10 ай бұрын

Rebecca Parker: "There is a love: a love holding us, there is a love holding all, By the light of our chalice let us rest in this love." "we make bold promises about how we will be with one another. I invite you to as we speak our congregations covenant: Together we ... celebrate diversity of thought and unity of spirit..." Your religion says there is DIVERSITY of thought yet you maintain that there has to be unity of spirit. Why? That is self impossed and goes against the rights of a liberal community. IF there IS a love (speaking of a love greater than all others) in a liberal community such a notion is incompatable with the notion of coming to KNOW that love. All you have is diversity of thought and in which there can be no actual unity. Any unity can only come from burying any hopes of discussing anything meaningful. I know that your religion wants to promote itself as being really open and inclusive. But again this is wishful thinking. In fact as your covenant expresses, in order to become part of it one has to make the promise. There is no unity among UUism. That isn't the goal even though there is the unity speak. So you cannot speak of UU congregationally. The important thing to see is that UUism isn't even what it was at its inception. It is a continual shift but not a shift toward what your chalice represents. It is a shift to greater and greater darkness. Thus though you will welcome a convinced atheist or agnostic who has arrived at their position you will quickly shun a Bible believing follower of Christ and let'get serious about it: a Calvinist. Why? Because UUisam believes it has freed itself from what they perceive to be dark exclusive Christianity. You see though UUism has a facade of inclusivity it is only toward those who will agree with them. To put it another way: transport your or any UU congregation back 2000 years ago. Or imagine your key leaders being there and listening to Christ 2000 years ago. You would be there with your placades and shouting out: too narrow! He is NOT the Way! He is NOT the Truth! He is NOT the Life! How do I know? Because UUism has rejected the Christ of Scripture! After all: what good is a manufactured, christless christ of historic universalism or historic unitarianism? No use! Unless Christ IS who He claims to be and unless He rose victoriously from the grave there is no help for any. Historic varieties of heresy have ensured that there has been a downward progression with the formation of UU and so it is hard to take seriously your question! Now all this changes when by the sovereign grace of God an individual or indeed a UU congregation is convicted of sin and receives the new birth:) The Gospel is ever the same. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. That is your duty. That is why Christ preached it and so did the Apostles and so do all of Christ's true ministers throughout the ages. Now you you want to obey the command of Christ? If you do, go ahead. If your desire is REAL it will only be because of the Holy Spirit within enabling you. It is not a vain or empty promise! But perhaps your response is NO! Well then this is the default setting of all due to the fall. In this case a person will not come to Christ. But the duty is just as real. So go ahead and try to be the best person you can. Will that earn you favour? No. It will increase the demerit! However by the grace of God it MAY be used by God to show you your absolute inability of ever being able to keep the law! That is good! It leads a person to the One who FULLY KEPT ALL OF THE LAW in the place of ALL who trust in Him:) This is all at the centre of the Gospel which the UU has never embraced and which the prior U and U had already rejected. Is there hope? Of course! Be an agent of change! BUT that will only happen by first receiving the TRUE love of God into your heart and mind. Therefore seek the Lord while He may be found! (Is. 55.) Ah, but the enemy is self the world and the devil! Romans 3: THERE ARE NONE WHO SEEK AFTER GOD! God commands ALL to do what by nature they are unwilling to do! Thus though there IS a command and though there IS a sure and certain promise the realisation and procurament of the grace of God is God's to give! In other words: the ANSWER IS NOT IN YOY OR UU OR ME! The answer is found in God! YOUR duty is to seek with all your heart and mind and soul! Are YOU willing or UNWILLING? Prayer: God command what you will and give what You command. May God grant you to know Him who alone is The Way, The Truth and The Life:) Footnote: Islam shows it is not true. How? Islam denies that Christ ACTUALLY died! Due to rationalistic renderings they decided that a dying King would NOT be victorious so in Islam Christ was merely a prophet, no atoning death, no death fullstop! And so no resurrection! It is so sad that UUism embraces Islam or rather a romantic notion of it. But again, for UU Islam is not perceived as a threat even though true Islam is as exclusive as UU itself. Well, no more so actually.

@gnostix1

8 ай бұрын

@@pmoore3269 I'm glad you got that out of your system. Are you feeling better now? A modest suggestion: You might visit a UU congregation or two and find out what the denomination is really about. I promise you won't turn into a pillar of salt.

@lydiamead4251

8 ай бұрын

It is the TRUTH that sets people free:) That IS what gets false religion out of one's system:) Jesus Christ who is eternal God is the only One who is able to free the soul of individuals and remove guilt and condemnation. Look to Him and live:) @@gnostix1

@user-gu7lv9gk8m

3 ай бұрын

@@pmoore3269The "god" of Abraham is Satan.

I definitely disagree with the notion that “white supremacy is too extreme a term to describe anything going on in UU circles” (paraphrased). We have to remain open to the fact that white supremacy has tainted literally every aspect of our society and lives. We have to reckon with it in exactly such terms if we are to be honest about our history and future.

@PaulDeMoor-vo5uk

9 ай бұрын

White supremacy has not tainted every aspect of our society. Frederick Douglas referred to our Constitution as “glorious liberty document”. There has been a failure to live up to the noble ideals this country was founded on. I will not subscribe to the nihilistic ideology that the UUA has embraced, rather I will try to make the reality of our country move closer to its founding ideals.

@mazikhurram3058

9 ай бұрын

@@PaulDeMoor-vo5uk if you look at the federalist papers and other writings (as well as the actions) of the “founding fathers” you realize that democracy and freedom were never the “founding ideals” of this country. That’s pure fiction written by white, owning class men who literally held others in chains and created a system of “checks and balances” that exist explicitly to keep the poor from gaining “too much power” in our society. The flag of this nation is too blood drenched to ever be salvaged. Give up the myths so we can start building something true together.

@uuamherst

8 ай бұрын

@@PaulDeMoor-vo5uk What is the "nihilistic philosophy that the UUA has embraced"?

@robertsouth6971

10 күн бұрын

"Yes, everyone is guilty equally. Let's distribute it vaguely rather than pinpointing individual perpetrators. " --Satan

This is not christian

@gnostix1

4 ай бұрын

Historically speaking, Unitarianism and Universalism are the two oldest branches of Christianity. "The Holy Trinity" was invented over 300 years after the time of Jesus, and would have shocked and dismayed the disciples of the early church for its polytheism.

@user-gu7lv9gk8m

3 ай бұрын

Keep your "christianity" to yourself, thank you.

What is the blocker why Jesus cannot be the only Way to God in UU doctrine? Why is the Bible not the Final Authority when it comes to God, Sin, Grace, Hell, Heaven, & Salvation?

@gnostix1

8 ай бұрын

Unitarian Universalism has no "doctrine," creed, statement of faith, etc. There are currently seven principles that members agree to, and a modest listing of sources from which the faith is historically drawn. UUs are more likely to ask "Why would Jesus be the only way to God?" in a 14-billion year old universe filled with wonders. Indeed, why would the Bible -- a collection of documents pieced together over the course of several thousand years and subject to continuous and ongoing manipulation by various partisans -- be the final authority in a world filled with continuing revelation? In historic Unitarianism and Universalism (the congregations merged in 1961), the historic Jesus is a wise teacher, not the divine being of trinitarianism. Salvation was accomplished for all with Jesus' death. Universalists in particular believe in "the final harmony of all souls in God." Relieved of the terror of everlasting Hell, the question becomes, in the words of Mary Oliver, "What will you do with your one wild and precious life?"

@rolandjosef7961

8 ай бұрын

@@gnostix1 UU falls out from the Christian faith when it does not believe the exclusivity of Jesus and his Word, the Bible. Can you see how contradictory UU beliefs are? UU promote all forms of beliefs & religions, even Atheism. Most of them contradict each other, not to mention when you put Atheism in the mix. Acts 17:30-31 MEV God overlooked the times of ignorance, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent. [31] For He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed, having given assurance of this to all men by raising Him from the dead." Isaiah 43:11 MEV I, even I, am the LORD, and besides Me there is no savior. John 14:5-7 MEV Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going. How can we know the way?" [6] Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. [7] If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him." Even UU is exclusive, because it denies the exclusivity of Jesus and the Bible.

@LawrenceEsq

8 ай бұрын

The Bible has quite a few self-declared adherents, Unitarian-Universalists don't necessarily reject the Bible, we just don't limit ourselves to it. UUs are open to the inspiration of the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Analects of Confucius, the Tao de Chih, the Zend-Avesta and so many other sources as well. Jesus is highly regarded but so is the Buddha and other spiritual guides.

@rolandjosef7961

8 ай бұрын

@@LawrenceEsq But the Bible is very clear that there is one God. I'm sorry but the Bible contradicts all world religion. Isaiah 45:5 ESV I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; John 5:22-24 ESV For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, [23] that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. [24] Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. Acts 17:30-31 ESV The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, [31] because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead." Revelation 20:11-15 ESV Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. [12] And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. [13] And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. [14] Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. [15] And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

@owheydusoapsk

7 ай бұрын

The UU has a black Jesus called Ibram X. Kendi, (aka Ibram Henry Rogers). His teachings on race have been adopted as church dogma. Much like dogmatic teachings associated with Jesus are taught in the Christian Church. Disagreeing with Kendi's ideology in the UU church is like disputing Jesus in the Christian church. Henry was hired by Boston University and given 50 million in grants to establish that his "anti-racist" strategy to decrease racial inequity was credible. The money was spent with no significant result. BU cut his staff from 20 to 5 and is investigating what happened to the money. This is the UUA Jesus.

This crazy lady lost me when she stated her pronouns.Some folks are living in a fantasy world.

@uuamherst

2 ай бұрын

Some folks are living in the present where stating one's pronouns are commonplace and, indeed, expected.

Godless faith.