Like the workbench? Watch me make it here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/eIx_u9mGYMmbh7g.html&t

@ThirdoptionJCSU

3 ай бұрын

Hey Mattew ,do you O-1 is better for bigger blades in terms of toughness or A2 is tougher?

I love your straight forward no nonsense approach 👍🏼 I find your videos very easy to follow. Thanks for all your great content I’m learning so much.

I just discovered your videos when I was looking for comparisons of shoulder planes. I really like what you're doing--honest opinions and solid information. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Brilliant and succinct - best explanation of the benefits and drawbacks of various types of steel in tools I've seen.

love watching these reviews, opinions and tutorials your putting out matt, keep them coming :)

Appreciate the real world benefits you bring to the comparison.

thanks. Appreciate the comparison. I'm just getting started putting a kit together. Very helpful.

Mr Estlea - I really enjoy your TD Vid's and I'm learning a great deal from your in-depth explanations. Recently, I returned to woodworking as a career change. I've been using chisels and planes again and found that for certain tasks are better than power tools. So, I'm investing in some LN & Veritas. Thank you!

Thank you for clearing up my confusion about the different grades of steel!

I restored a Stanley no 4 from 1930 and it worked like a charm. After a year or so I retro-fitted it with a replacement blade made out of PM-V11and cap iron from Veritas and it honestly became even better. I can just recommend that to all of you already owning a no 4

Absolutely love your new "tool duel" videos!! Keep up the great work!!

@MattEstlea

6 жыл бұрын

Cheers Brock! The intro is my favourite bit to film

@merictemur5803

4 жыл бұрын

@@MattEstlea hello, what is this PM-V11 plane's name?

Thank you for the fantastic video. Great information for a beginner like me who has no idea what to look for in new tools. Keep up the great work.

Excellent information! I now know the difference between A1, A2 and PMV-11....Thank you very much Matt! 👍

nice explanation, I watched alot of dusty splinters videos before i bought my 62, he is a big fan ofa planed finish and recommended a ron hock 01 blade as a second blade, but i never really understood why until now. really lovely series of new videos so far you weigh up the pros and cons nicely, but i like how you also give your personal preference too

@MattEstlea

6 жыл бұрын

Yep, can't go wrong with 01 if you're looking for a planed finish! Glad to hear you're enjoying it so far, I'll stick to what I'm doing!

Handsome, you gave the bestest info on PM-V11, A2 and O1. Thanks millions from California.

Really great explanation! Thanks for the information.

What an excellent overview!

You’re putting out some good content, well done.

@MattEstlea

6 жыл бұрын

Cheers Ben!

Shawn at wortheffort suggested your channel. I’m now a new subscriber. Thanks for the great video.

@MattEstlea

6 жыл бұрын

Why hello there! Glad to have you here and hope you enjoy!

Fantastic tutorial.....like all your other tool duels......Tutorials.......difficult info to find usually so you have filled that void..... Hence my subscription......

@MattEstlea

6 жыл бұрын

Brilliant! Glad to know you're finding it useful and happy to have you here!

Lovin the new videos! Keep it up! THANKS!

@MattEstlea

6 жыл бұрын

Cheers! Glad to know you like them!

Great info, thanks for sharing. Wortheffort sent me here. Subscribed!

Thank you very much, found your videos pretty packed with lot of info. You have earned another subscriber. However, is that rust at 7:35? It seems to me like rust .. pretty surprised. Maybe just too humid workshop or lack of camellia oil (my favorite) to protect metal tools.

Ya know, I’ve never tried the veritas PM-V11. I love veritas tools and I have a love for particle metallurgy steels and have probably 100 or more premium knives in various high alloy hypereutectoid particle steels. For my woodworking tools, I guess I’ve never been dissatisfied with either a2 or o1. They aren’t the cutting edge of metallurgy, but they both do quite well for me for day to day woodworking. I can also say I’ve specifically chosen both a2 and o1 steels at different times buying tools for different purposes. If I had to have one type of steel I guess I really don’t care lol. I’d choose o1 for most stuff honestly. I’ve been quite impressed with the new Richter chisels, but I’m thoroughly unsure of what type of material they are but I’d say there are certainly more carbides present than is the cast with run of the mill o1 and definitely a higher alloy in general. They take a nice fine edge and hold them VERY long. Cryogenics certainly plays a role in their performance but it also throws off my speculation as to the base metallurgy. Either way, great chisels and highly recommend if you don’t mind some hard work getting them dialed in. Mine weren’t as geometrically perfect as some people have said theirs are, but the construction and materials performance is worth the cost and worth the cost of all the prep work.

Great Video Matt, O1, and A2 are tool steels, and tool steels are hardened through out, unlike case hardened which is hardened on the surface and not troughout, O1 is Oil Hardened, A2 is Air Hardened. I believe PM-V11 is a Powered Metal Alloy and holds the edge better then O1 and A2. thanks for the video.

that was a great summery thanks

Sounds like O1 could be a good option for chisels used for paring or dovetailing - not necessarily paring chisels, just the worker's favourite chisels for that purpose. And having different chisels with a tougher steel chopping and banging down with a mallet.

Oh man, that NX60 looks the absolute nuts.

I’m new to your channel and I absolutely love it. I’m very impressed with your level of expertise, and standard of craftsmanship. Im from Baltimore, Maryland in the U.S. I’m a relatively new woodworker to fine furniture, and I’m self taught. I’ve used KZread and books a great deal. I’ve been doing this now for about 6-7 years, and I’ve really just acquired a great set of tools. I know well how using cheap tools hinders ability. That being said, I still did a few pretty good things, but what a difference a quality tool makes. I’m looking forward to new videos. Keep up the good work. I’ll be seeing you. Thanks for the loads of help.

What do you think about chrome vanadium steel for chisels.

What do you suggest for a shooting board plane? I would be tempted to think O1 based on this video. BTW would love to see a tool duel between the Veritas shooting board and the Lie-Nielsen No 51? I think the Lie-Nielsen is only available with an A2 blade which surprises me base on this video.

Great video

@Matt have you looked at Japanese steels, white and blue paper... I have a Stanley plane which just doesn't keep an edge, it looks like it's 01. I have a set of Japanese chisels which are bomb-proof razors.

Matt does the Veritas shoulder plane blade fit the Lie Nielsen honing guide ? Great vids, well done.

@MattEstlea

6 жыл бұрын

Yep, that's all fine in there. It clamps on the narrow part of the blade when using he standard jaws. Clamps on the wider part using the long jaws if I remember correctly.

"Lets go make a mess" lol w\ me, there are different definitions of 'Mess'. I have, do, will. But TRUE, Creation in the Woods - or Works. Came to see yours per wortheffort - Your Web Site ~ Opens ~ with an Amazing Cabinet \ Door \ Hinge Design Totally Real!

Thanks Matt.

Love a2 for chisels (LN) because of edge ritention, but not in planes...so for those i very like 01 far easier to sharpen and reset bevels by hand.

Holy shit, that's veritas block plane is a work of art. I need it.

Why do you use the No. 4 so much? Just an honest question. Thanks for your great content!

I'm getting ready to purchase a shooting plane... What blade would you choose for this particular specialized plane?

Where does Luban's Samurai T10 high carbon steel fit in this range

THANK YOU !

I use a Worksharp. It takes seconds to resharpen A2. My old Sorby boxwood chisels seem soft to me compared with Narex. Either way resharpening takes seconds. I therefore recommend A2 and Worksharp. I couldn’t be bothered setting up honing guides for wetstone or hand sharpening. A fixed slope is the answer giving exactly the same angle every time. You can just make a jig with a diamond disc if you are hard up.

why does the veritas shoulder plane have so much rust? is this a known problem that i should worry about?

Does that Veritas with the premium steel have a big chunk of plastic in the middle or is that cast iron?

Sorry this is off topic, but I have to know if anyone else sees the blue hue on the workbench? Looks like blue chalk. Is it just a filming artifact, lighting issue, or is it my monitor?

Do you think that a2 steel wares out your diamond stones faster?

Lie-Nielsen only offers A2 blades in the USA as of summer 2021.

I don't care - the video just starts and I smash that like button! Keep up the great work! Love your vids man! Cheers 🍻

@MattEstlea

6 жыл бұрын

Smash the like button! I'll have to start saying that in my videos now!

@AndreaArzensek

6 жыл бұрын

You're welcome :D

Thanks.

What steel are the Japanese chisels, I have the ones sold by Axminster and they seem easy to sharpen , and the edge lasts a decent amount of time ?

@MattEstlea

6 жыл бұрын

I'm not too familiar with Japanese chisels so I didn't want to add them to this comparison. All I know is that they are very hard and last very long. I would imagine they have similar properties to A2. But don't take my word for it!

Matt - Can you give us a tour of that piece of furniture you are standing next to? Looks very attractive and interesting.

@MattEstlea

6 жыл бұрын

I filmed an entire series on building it! Have a look at my playlists for 'Building a Krenov Cabinet'

@Martinonskis

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks.

I don't have a formal education in metallurgy, but I did a decent bit of blacksmithing / bladesmithing, and I believe your premise on O1 rolling / blunting in a different way than the others is off-base. After sufficient use, and assuming the same medium, say oak, all 3 steels should blunt in the same manner, just at different times. However A2 / PM-V11 would be more likely to chip if they hit a knot or something, due to higher hardness and less toughness (more brittle). I also don't think that your point on softness equalling potential sharpness is accurate either, though someone with a microscope may be able to confirm/deny that.

Thanks. Great info. Are all of these stainless steel? Would you be able to explain how carbon-steel compares to these? Like in japanese tools.

@MattEstlea

6 жыл бұрын

Hi Stefan. No these are not stainless steel. I have used one set of chisels (Which looked lovely) that were made of stainless but they were absolute bollocks. Avoid them at all costs! I haven't used Japanese chisels before and didn't feel comfortable adding them to this comparison. The last thing I want to do is pretend to know what I'm talking about. All I have heard is that they are difficult to sharpen on anything other than a Japanese Waterstone, and that they hold their edge for a long time. I suspect their properties would be similar to A2. But like I say, don't take my word for it. Would be worth doing your own research. Cheers!

@vincenttai8211998

6 жыл бұрын

Stefan Duberg a proper Japanese chisel will usually have their cutting edge made from a variety of carbon steel all in the same family just different levels of purity and or added components (increase toughness). Japanese chisels as you probably know are laminated, this means less hard steel at the non cutting side of the Bevel and very easy sharpening. I'd say PMV-11 is the western tool answer to Japanese steels right now though purists would still choose a well made white steel blade probably. Check out Derek Cohen's comparison of five steels in chisels, i can only say I have found white steel to be outstanding in my chisels and pmv-11 chisels to be a real treat to work with

@shonuffisthemaster

6 жыл бұрын

no decent plane blade or chises are made from stainless. the only advantage stainless has over non stainless is its stain resistance, but most other properties are compromised to acomplish this, sometimes drastically compromised.

Has any one any idea where I can get my hands on a veritas nx60?

@roygreen6566

5 жыл бұрын

I've got one, brand new, willing to sell.

Great content, something I sort of knew before, but not with the level of understanding you provided. Thanks! Question about the PM-V11...O1 is oil cooled and A2 is air cooled, which I suppose gives them their particular properties as soft/brittle, but how is PM V11 cooled in the forging process, and is that responsible for the hybrid properties, or does it start as a different entity before the forging process starts? You are one of the few whose videos I automatically open without fail, along with Fine Woodworking Magazine and a Canadian named Rob Cosman. You are in VERY GOOD company!

@MattEstlea

6 жыл бұрын

That is where my expertise ends unfortunately mate! I'm the same in that I knew the cooling process on A2 and O1 but PM-V11 I'm not sure. It's nothing a quick Google won't fix but I wanted to explain the differences in plain English to keep the video quick and to the point. Glad to hear you're enjoying it all!

@vincenttai8211998

6 жыл бұрын

Steven Rochon PMV-11 is in a family of powdered metal steels, very fine powders of the literally composition of the steel is heated under pressure into billets. Veritas doesn't actually give out the details of this Steel, but they stumbled onto it and after testing decided it was the best steel. I'd doubt in their factory that lee valley would hammer forge blades, if they did they would market that, plus forging doesn't actually give the better edge that people like to think, proper heat treatment is the key. Anyways PMV-11 is kept a bit hush hush by veritas seeing how it's a pre-existing steel so hence a new marketed name, it could be cooled in oil, salt quench, plate quench, air, who knows but veritas seems to be doing a damn good job with it, it's one of my favorite steels.

@steverochon1620

6 жыл бұрын

Vincent Tai thank you! Is there much difference in sharpening PM VII steel, if any?

@vincenttai8211998

6 жыл бұрын

Steven Rochon I'd say depends on your sharpening setup. If you hollow grind, or use something like matt's setup no. If you're an oilstone guy, maybe a minimal difference. If you use sandpaper (no judgement but I do shudder) I found it completely unsuitable for alloyed hard steels unless you are using a coarser paper for some hand grinding. I mostly keep to sigma power ceramic stones right now for tools I use a honing guide with, they're are made for some nasty PM HSS steels so really anything like PMV-11 is like a yawn for them. One thing to remember is to keep your burr formation from going crazy. Only a fine fine fine wire edge is needed, when using a honing guide there might not be any evidence that a burr exists. When using a very coarse medium like a coarse diamond stone to put a new Bevel on the blade if you end up wanting to erase the previous Bevel completely you end up with a big nasty burr; I've literally had a burr 2mm thick form once. Coax it off using some leather or a very fine stone, and raise a new burr with finer abrasive grits, that way you don't fight a tenacious huge burr that will just ruin your edge trying to get it off. Bottom line tho is no I have found no real difference in sharpening PMV-11, any waterstone, diamond, quality oilstone, compound, lapping film does fine.

@steverochon1620

6 жыл бұрын

I don't hollow going; I tried using a low speed grinder and didn't think the results were better than granite and course sandpaper. I shudder too at that, so will only do that to eliminate a knick or divet in an edge. With a new blade or one I'm touching up, I use water stones exclusively, so your advice is encouraging, although Ray Roberts down below here is making me nervous. Thanks for your help Vincent.

Why are there no cost comparisons?

I am honestly jealous of that nx60, after hunting it down for three + yrs I gave up and got the dx. Still an awesome plane but that nx.... btw, not sure if you use spokeshaves, but if you do, do check out the hnt gordon ones, out of australia :)

@MattEstlea

6 жыл бұрын

Haha sorry mate, bloody lovely isn’t it? I actually have 2 HNT Spokeshaves already, they’re so pretty!

@timgospodinov5861

6 жыл бұрын

yes, it is :) ... I got three of his spokeshaves in the specialty series :) a pleasure to use

Okay, you sold me on O1 irons.

Hmm..... Most of my woodworking is on the lathe. The two premium metals we prefer are M42 high speed steel, and PM V10 (powder metal 10% vanadium). Their edge holding ability is way beyond standard M2 hss. Oh, a few tried making tools out of PM V15 but it was too brittle. Our debate on overall sharpness was that they could all be taken to the same level of sharpness but some were easier to get to that point than others. I did have some A2 tools, and didn't like them at all because they wouldn't hold an edge. Not sure what O1 is. Makes me think of drill rod, of which there are 3 types, A for air cured, O for oil cured, and W for water cured, or maybe cooled. Not sure. When properly hardened, I can take a hacksaw blade or a file to it and it only scuffs the surface, but doesn't dent or ding the metal. We use it mostly for our tool rests, and it is far superior to the old cast iron ones, mostly in slickness and not getting damaged. Oh, the A drill rod is by far the hardest before hardening. Now, I am wondering about the particular metals you have here. The PM and M42 sharpen best with CBN wheels, or they would do really well on the diamond wheels on the Tormek. I would expect them to destroy your water stones, well wear them out very fast. No clue as to the A 2 if it is the same metal I had for some turning tools that I didn't like. Also, no clue as to the O1 and if it is similar to the drill rod but hardened differently. True with our tools on the lathe that we are removing miles of shavings on a bigger bowl, and the hand planes don't take nearly the abuse that our tools do. Any experimental metal blades out there?

@robohippy

2 жыл бұрын

Oh, DMT now makes lapping plates in 4000 and 8000 grit.

Quick question, why use a honing guide rather than learning to do it by hand? learning to do it by hand makes resharpening so fast, and if you keep a sharpening station at the end of your bench. Just curious what you think. Thanks kindly.

@gonzacher

4 жыл бұрын

All a honing guide is, is a tool to produce a more accurate result. The criticism is silly. I have developed the ability to sharpen by hand, but I use my honing guide on many of my blades. Sharpening by hand, for me, was like swimming. It's a skill I made myself learn, only in the event I need it.

@borjesvensson8661

3 жыл бұрын

Because getting a consistent bevel and the rigth bevelangle freehand is hard. Its a skill that takes considerable time to learn. Just going at the very tip or the edge is fast but rounds over the edge and give you more work down the line. I sharpen freehand but i am not as anal as some on the internet about 100% perfect edge geometry.

Correction: PM-V11 is not "soft enough" to put on a sharp edge. It's harder than the other two steels. But it's a powdered steel, which means the crystals are much smaller and gives a good sharp edge that holds for a long time. It should be harder/take longer to sharpen the PM-V11.

@MintStiles

2 жыл бұрын

I've got many examples of various cutters in different planes. Despite what they tell you, PMV-11 is a bitch to sharpen with my typical methods.

@vladg5216

Жыл бұрын

@@MintStiles what are your methods?

@MintStiles

Жыл бұрын

@@vladg5216 diamond stones to about 1200 grit then strop on green compound applied to very flat softwood. I can get single layer cell thick shavings that look like fishnet stockings with most type of iron.

@rsv-code7004

22 күн бұрын

Yes, totally correct. PM-V11 is MUCH harder to sharpen then O1 in my experience. I tested all 3 side by side. PM-V11 took me about 4 times longer than O1 to grind/sharpen. A2 was also considerably more difficult to sharpen than O1. No surprise here given the higher amount of Chromium. I personally like O1 the best because with less effort you can create a shaving sharp edge. It strops up beautifully, and it's easy to maintain that shaving sharp edge by just touching up the blade on the strop for 30 seconds. I find that the quick regular touch up on the strop is so much better than the painful "stop the world" event of sharpening the other Chromium steels. I also noticed that the Chromium steels are more brittle and I have chipped chisel blades before. I have not experienced that with O1 yet.

It has been a long time since I had a course in metallurgy but that is what needs to be addressed here. I wonder what PM-V11 really is? The wear properties of steel depend on more than just the hardness.

@d.k.1394

5 жыл бұрын

poo muff vagina

@NCSUFutbol

3 жыл бұрын

It's powdered steel

Good Info! I have the same block plane as you, although mine isn't the nickel one. Question - do you ever put the PM-V11 blade in the special case it came with? I forget exactly but I thought they said if you keep it in there it helps the blade somehow. I have never used it. Any thoughts on that? You think it's actually neccessary or not?

@MattEstlea

6 жыл бұрын

Nah chucked it in the bin! When you buy the blade there is a little cardboard square inside the case that is impregnated with a rust inhibitor. That's what the small square inside the case is made to hold. As far as I'm aware that's the only benefit to storing it in the case but I don't bother. Cheers mate!

@johnjensen8560

Жыл бұрын

I believe that the case is used if you buy an extra blade with a higher angle for figured wood and you have more than one blade. Also room to write notes on the case. John Jensen from British Columbia

I think it is a little misleading to say, for example, that A2 cannot be made as sharp as O1. O1 is easier to sharpen and takes less skill to get to the same sharpness as AW. But if you have the skill, A2 can be even sharper than O1. The Edge will also last longer, but may chip more easily.

@rsv-code7004

22 күн бұрын

A2 has a larger grain structure because of the additional Chromium, it cannot get as sharp as O1. Because of the large Chromium carbides, it will also be more difficult to get it to the same level of sharpness.

A2!

Hi pal, could you or someone else maybe help a man? My chisels are Cr-V (6xxx, I believe it's registered as). I have googled for decades but can't find out if that's harder or softer! I'm assuming harder as Chromium is a beast, but no actual knowledge. Help?

@ToraKwai

4 жыл бұрын

they'll be chrome vanadium, pretty sure it means they're softer than pure carbon steel, they sharpen up pretty easily but also need to be sharpened very often

I like the video but I figured the reason why each plane has the steel they do is cause at the time the steel available.for the shoulder plane was either 01 or at u told us the lie Nielson only sells it with the a2 and obviously once pm-v11 was available why wouldn't u get it lol.

I'd rather go with easy to sharpen rather than edge retention

2:02 - 2:30 That is some proper nonsense. It can not be soft and hard. Perhaps it lays somewhere between, so it is a good compromise?

@astonishedhoplite2510

4 жыл бұрын

Pretty sure it can? Pretty sure Japanese chisels have a soft edge and the rest is hard. Mabye the other way around.

@laurelsporter4569

3 жыл бұрын

Those use two different steels, with a very soft steel making up most of the tool, which also helps protect the harder edge steel from impacts. Awesome in the kitchen, no experience with hand tools (though based on my kitchen experience, I intend to keep it that way - American and European metallurgists know what they're doing, and there's a lot more to it than a cutting edge). The PMV is just plain harder, and more wear resistant. That just has little relation to the edge's initial acuteness, which is mostly dominated by how even and fine the carbides are. Japanese steels get worked on and purified into having finer carbide structures, allowing for a finer edge, that is more resistant to dulling than much more impure Western tool steels. But, it's more brittle, which brings problems of its own. I'm not personally prepared to take the effort to care for and maintain them, for banging on wood, FI. Powdered steels are rarely as flexible as traditional steels, but they can be made much harder and abrasion-resistant than traditionally made Western tool steel, with much less chance of chipping than traditional Japanese tool steels (the ones like Hitachi make are pretty much industrial translations of old manual methods), and often very good corrosion resistance.

appreceate your comparison in actual use, but your statements about the steels being "hard" and "soft" really arent accurate at all. i suspect most of these steels are heat treated verry close to the same hardness. the difference is in the alloy content and how that affects the structure of the heat treated steel. its quite complicated really, but to over simplify it its mainly about carbides and grain size. grain size is the actual micro structure of the steel, if yoh snap a piece of heat treated steel you will see how coarse or fine the resulting break is, think of it as little pieces of sand stuck together. the larger the grain size, the less durable the steel will be, and the less keen edge you will be able to get on it. carbides on the other hand are the main contributers to wear resistance, or in other words resistance to dulling. unfortionatly, most of the alloys that give you lots of hard carbides also promote grain groth and the carbides themselves can get in the way of attainjng a verry keen edge. simple steels like O1 have verry few alloying elements so they can be heat treated to a nice fine grain steel that can get verry sharp, but dosent have the wear resistance that higher alloy steels can have and thus dulls quicker. higher alloy steels can be harder to sharpen because of the incresed wear resistance, and also there can be carbides and large grains getting in the way of a really keen edge, but once sharpened they will stay sharp longer. theres also stainless steels, which arent common at all in woodworking tools but verry common in knives. stainless has allot of chromium, which is one of the worst culprits in grain groth..this is why stainless steel is often difficult to get verry sharp. but chromium is also in allot of non stainless steels because it increses wear resistance. so, its really a trade off, you cant have the best of both worlds but you can get somewhere inbetween and have a good compormise.

@a0flj0

5 жыл бұрын

Fully agree. Just an addition. Large grains - the likes of which you get in alloys with lots of carbides - will simply not allow you to attain a very sharp edge. Sharpening will more often than not rip out entire grains, rather than breaking grains into pieces, simply because the bonding between grains is a lot weaker than the internal cohesion of the grains. Even when the sharpening leaves grain pieces in place, these will be quickly dislodged during the very few first cuts with the freshly sharpened tool. That's even more the case in highly alloyed steels, which produce lots of carbids - inclusions of all sorts will tend to accumulate at the grain boundary, making the grain boundary a lot softer than the grain interior. This means the cutting edge will be about as wide as the grains are large. Larger grains means less sharp edge.

@georgecavanaugh8615

5 жыл бұрын

Isn’t that what he said in way less words? The softer the steel, the easier to sharpen, but dulls quicker? The harder the steel, the harder to sharpen, but lasts longer. And in the middle is the best of both worlds, a Little harder so the edge lasts a little longer, but it’s also a little harder to sharpen.

@georgecavanaugh8615

5 жыл бұрын

In a round about way. Different alloys or lack thereof result in harder or softer steel.

@shonuffisthemaster

4 жыл бұрын

@@georgecavanaugh8615 its possible that someones impression of the steel may be that its softer or harder, but in this case the comparison its not about the actual hardness, its about the microstructure of the steel, and thats what is contributing most to the properties of the steel in use. most of these steels will be heat treated very similar, somewhere in the 59-62 hrc range. some of the steels may be heat treated slightly harder than others, but this wouldnt make nearly as notable difference in use as the microstructure. hardness does play an important role in tool proformance however, and less quality tools will generally be heat treated softer. but microstructure is much more important than hardness, but most cheap tools are both soft and also have a poor microstructure. there are also some steels that are able to attain a significantly higher hardness and still be useable, but none of the steels mentioned fit into this catagory, and they would probably be considered exotic. its also misleading to say that O-1 for example is a "soft" steel or that A-2 is a "hard" steel, they are simply as hard or soft as you heat treat them to be. in most cases, the useable hardness range of a steel, or what its most likely to be heat treated to by a competent manufacturer, will be somewhat different from another steel, but again in the case of these tool steels, there isnt much difference in the useable hardness range.

@shonuffisthemaster

4 жыл бұрын

@@a0flj0 very well said, thank you.

Isn’t that Roman numerals? V11 is 7? PM 7?

@fotogfitzfoto412

5 жыл бұрын

No, it's PM (for: "powder metallurgy" - the process), Version 11.

@brightidea4503

5 жыл бұрын

@@fotogfitzfoto412 So if it's still roman numerals, then "11" is 2? So "Version 11" is PM Version 2?

@fotogfitzfoto412

5 жыл бұрын

Bright Idea No, Roman numerals would be II, this is 11 in Arabic numerals (i.e., eleven).

well xxxplained

Does the "p" in pm-v11 stand for "powdered"?

@thatguythatdoesstuff7448

4 жыл бұрын

PM is Powdered Metal.

@frenstcht

4 жыл бұрын

@@thatguythatdoesstuff7448 Okay, so it's Crucible or a Crucible knock-off. Cool, thanks! (I didn't mean knock-off pejoratively, I just didn't have a better word.)

@thatguythatdoesstuff7448

4 жыл бұрын

@@frenstcht Honestly, I don't believe that Veritas developed the steel as they claim they did. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm inclined to believe that claim is just marketing. What I really think is that this is a Griggs product that typically goes by PM-A11 (aka CPM 10V). I mean, even the naming convention is the same. The claimed properties of PM-V11 match the PM-A11 profile exactly. High impact toughness, high wear resistance, ease of grinding. It doesn't make sense to me, in terms of economies of scale, for a small company like Veritas to spend the money developing a bespoke powdered metal with so many off the shelf options. If I truly developed the chemistry of this powdered metal, I wouldn't name it PM-V11. I'd name it Veritasium or something to link it to my company. My .02

@frenstcht

4 жыл бұрын

@@thatguythatdoesstuff7448 I think your .02 is worth more than two cents on this. Five minutes browsing youtube knife channels is enough to know that there's now a world of super-steels that are completely unknown in the woodworking community. No offense to Veritas, but them coming up with a steel is like a celebrity coming up with her own perfume: career chemists do that sort of work, not amateurs. I hope the odd naming convention isn't going to be industry standard. I can look up M390 or CPM-30V or Elmax and do some informed shopping, and that's the way it should be. Thanks again for the info! Have a great day ^_^

@Jeremy_810

4 жыл бұрын

I'm a knife guy also, so I'm trying to compare the characteristics of these irons to blade steels that I'm familiar with to make an informed decision. I definitely don't like the softer steels like AUS8 or VG10. I find that I'm constantly rolling the edge back and forth during sharpening. S30V is better but takes forever to sharpen on ceramic but does well with diamond. Elmax is by far my favorite, even better than M390 and CTS204P. It holds an edge amazing long and I find it sharpens faster and gets sharper than every other blade steel I've used using ceramic stones.

great info Shame on you for letting your blades and planes get rusty!

So my experience is that PM-V11 is very difficult to get sharp... much more difficult than A2. I have PM-V11 replacement blades in several of my old Stanley planes (currently in a two #4s, #5 Bedrock, #6, #7, and #8 Bedrock); it's a pain to get sharp. Now it will definitely stay sharp longer but I'm not sure that your review is very accurate... I would say if you are willing to spend the extra time on the sharpening stones then the V11 blades are great... but if you free hand sharpen using a technique similar to Rob Cosman or something quick and easy like that than an O1 blade is excellent.

@MattEstlea

6 жыл бұрын

Like I say, all experience. I base my statistic for the ease of sharpening off using the Tormek. A2 takes quite a while and I have to regrade the stone very often, PM-V11 not so much. It's just what I've noticed over the years. No one is right with sharpening at the end of the day! Cheers Ray

@vincenttai8211998

6 жыл бұрын

Ray Roberts you might want to take a look at your burr removal. If you use the rob cosman technique with the ruler trick then go back to the Bevel and then back to the ruler; PM steels and alloy steels tend to have have a little more tenacious burr. All that being said I've got a dozen pmv-11 bladed tools and if I used a honing guide and kept the microbevel small I didn't have to go back to the Bevel and then the ruler. Maybe pop an email to the people at lee valley, they'll be more than happy to help.

@Alesandro113

5 жыл бұрын

Ray Roberts ugh i can imagine, i have the A2 in mine and it takes me some effort to get it sharp, but last for a long time and it gets scary sharp, by the way they stole mine like 6 months ago, I miss it so much and now i notice how much i use it.

@turningpoint6643

5 жыл бұрын

Yep I'd certainly agree with Rob Cosman's common sense, logical and fast results while sharpening. A commercial shop like his can't afford to waste time resharpening so obviously they'll figure out the fastest and most efficient methods of getting what they need. Wheel selection for type and grade for the usual high speed bench grinder is more than important as well as how you dress the wheels to get the initial blade angle. Modern high speed tool steels CAN'T be over heated on a high speed bench grinder. High carbon can so with those a wet wheel grinder would be the better choice. The time spent final honing the blade is more of an issue of what hand stone type or diamond honing block you use. The harder and more durable the steel then the more you'd want to move towards using diamond.

Thank you for this video. I do have a question on it though. Why is it possible to get a sharper edge on softer steel? I understand how it would take less time to sharpen but not how it becomes more sharp. Also, the PM-V11 is just soft steel laminated to hard steel with the hard steel being the cutting edge. So if it is possible to get a "sharper" edge on the soft steel then the PM-V11 steel should only be able to get as sharp as the A2. Thanks again for the videos!

@mechaform

5 жыл бұрын

Tyler Stevens No, PM-V11 is not a lamination of soft and hard steels. www.pm-v11.com/Story.aspx

ill take the O1 all day everyday. Sharpening shouldnt be looked at as a chore. It shoukd just be natural....use for 5 mins...touch up...and so on...Takes a minute, literally. and your back in biz. i dont like the particulate designer teels. I have a cmp30sv in my folder edc and cant sharpen it! dull af...and cant do anything about it!

@Worrsaint

2 жыл бұрын

Diamond plates to sharpen/hone it. I believe you can get away with harder ceramic stones for roughing but not finishing. Most stones are too soft to be of much use.

Thanks for the info emo boy.. But try it on wood boy...

Thought he said tool jew

Veritas, or as the lads in our shop call them, very rat assed. The type of steel they quote does not guarantee the quality of the edge. A properly hardened and tempered blue steel chisel by Ouchi is by far the best quality edge I have ever worked with. Super tough as well as razor sharp. But if it's not very carefully tempered in a tightly controlled schedule it's not that special at all. I don't like Nielsen steel. It's overrated and a pig to sharpen. I think they are using an inappropriate tool steel for plane irons. The crystaline structure is to coarse. Laminated blades are simply way better. But for the price the old chrome vanadium irons on your bog standard record/Stanley planes hold up pretty well. They will take a fine edge but they are not as well able to withstand knots, resin and glue. White steel is a finer edge but again its all in the heat treatment and the skill of the blacksmith. All tool steels are subject to the skill of the maker's.

@vladg5216

Жыл бұрын

the lads in your shop must feel very smart using a super clever pun like that *eyeroll*

Ooops. Sorry but you info is incorrect. O1 can be actually one of the harder steels. THATS why it’s sharper than A2. It is less tough THATS why it dulls quicker. O1 is the best steel, the redt is modern day marketing targetted at the rich ill informed :-)

@xang72

6 жыл бұрын

not true A1 is harder 01 is softer .. Admit ur wrong ... www.leevalley.com/us/shopping/techinfo.aspx?c=&type=a&p=57112

@vincenttai8211998

6 жыл бұрын

Werner Hoffmans O-1 can be a hard steel, you can theoretically get it to 65 RC. Very few manufacturers will choose to leave it at that hardness as it has very little toughness and is quite brittle then, perhaps okay in specific knives and smoothing planes. Harder doesn't mean sharper, grain structure is what dictates it. Improperly heat treatment is always the bane of fine grain. O-1 can get sharper than A2 due to A2 being an alloyed steel with not the most simple grain structure. There is a point though where it only matters if you are looking to leave a planed finish as nice as you can get.

@vladg5216

Жыл бұрын

Ahh, the standard defense of accusing those who can afford things you can't of not being as smart as you, or at least of not knowing the true value of things. Happens a lot in every hobby.