The Wheel of Time weaves as it wills. I'm here to unravel it.
I've got spoiler free deep dives and WOT 101 videos for new fans of The Wheel of Time TV show and books.
I've got deep dives and spoiler heavy videos for long time fans of the books. All are welcome here!
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I think people always want to compare the show to the books and always have negative comments that may push people away, I love the show and the books. And it's hard to find creators like yourself who give good insights into both books and show.
Great breakdown as always!
Honestly, I don't understand all the negative comments here. I feel like some WoT fans lose no opportunity to complain about the show. Lauren made a great video about staying positive and optimistic, and some fans here use the comment section to be negative and voice their frustration with the TV show. . I for one love the TV show and I find a lot of the book series in it. Rafe Judkins has about eight hours per season to cover a book series that is almost 15,000 pages long. It's impossible to even come close to covering the storylines and characters. That's why the show needed to take a very different approach, and I think it's a great one. In my opinion a lot of things are even better than in the books. I understand and accept that many fans don't like the TV series, but the comment section of a video that aims at people who love the TV show and want it to continue might not be the best place for complains.Thank you for your amazing video, Lauren! I love your videos and have watched many of them several times.
I agree, but videos like this are always going to bring the troll(ocs). I appreciate your kind words!
I agree. I gave up on the books as a teenager-got burned out, and was unsure if the series would ever be completed-and I have loved the show so much (warts and all) that it's brought me back to the books, and I've passed the point I originally gave up on the series. I know others who had never read the books and have now made their way through all 14 after falling in love with the world Robert Jordan created and Rafe & co brought to life.
Why do they give a shit about the run time on a streamed show? This was the best scene from the first episode and they cut it?!
I hope it gets cancelled as soon as possible. Literally the worst adaptation I have ever seen. Even garbage adaptations like Rings of Power, The Witcher, House of the Dragon season 2 ... are better than this. I can't understand why anyone would force themselves to like this insult to the lifework of one of their beloved authors from a multi billion dollar company that only cares about more money and has absolutely zero respect for the source material and sadly you guys who promote it as well.
K
I watched it. Then I watched it again. And I will watch it at least once more. Simply amazing!
I am also getting more and more frustrated with those two year gaps. I just saw the Rings of Power trailer und already thought, damn, need to sit through a video first to catch up on what happened in S1. This is stupid. I also do not agree with checking numbers in the first few days/week of a new show airing or how many subscriptions are taken out. This can work for a show that drops all episodes at once, but nowadays having multiple streaming services that cost money, I try to wait a few weeks so I don't have to subscribe for longer than 1 month and can watch all episodes in that timeframe. I would assume in the current financial climate, this is quite common. I have even seen people mention they cycle trough the different services and only have one active at a time, watch everything they need on there, then go on to the next. So just in this sense, I dont think any of those numbers are a good way for Amazon to check. But I guess they have to start with some numbers somewhere.
This show was doomed after the 1st season and how they murdered the original story
This entire project has been a disaster from the very beginning. From the selection of Rafe, a far-left lunatic, as the one in charge, to the gratuitous and completely unnecessary diversity in the original cast, to the abandonment of the original plot, etc... it's been a spit in the face to any true fan of the series. I watched the first season with hopeful optimism which quickly faded as they miscast and mishandled character after character, completely f*cked up the pacing of the story and made absurd changes to the story that did nothing but ruin the flavour of the story. By the end of the first season, I was hate-watching it just to criticize everything the ignorant production team got wrong. F*ck this show and everyone involved in disrespecting Robert Jordan's life work.
Thanks!
unless some serious miracles happen, they can't justify paying 20 mil an episode for 8 episodes anymore.
March 24 rap up date was the second rap up date with the first in November
For which season?
I tapped out at the end of season one. Hoping for a future animated version that adheres a bit closer to the source in its adaptation.
I would not be unhappy if they cancel. It is not a good series
K
I will remain calm ... for now.
Id be relieved. Should never have been given to these writers and RJ. The best thing they can do for the community and the legacy of the story, is to put it away. Let people discover the books and enjoy the story RJ wrote. Not this reprehensible re-writing
I think the show has failed on many fronts in trying to be a main stream audience hit. Amazon does not appear to know how to do epic fantasy. RoP and WoT prime are massive waste of resources for what appears on screen. I really enjoy some of the actors performances and don't blame them for show. But I also dont see any major changes in show that will draw a broader audience or more loyalty. Sad for fans who have loved this adaptation and for those that hated it.
Omg how did I never see this until now. So good
Haha, thanks. I love Arrested Development almost as much as I love the Wheel of Time!
@@UnravelingthePattern I’ve watched more arrested development and appreciate that tv show more, but wheel of time books hold the place of best story in my heart. I love that you’re able to merge my favorite things so well and often.
They should just put it out of it's misery and cancel it already.
Thanks for commenting!
Ty
Probably my favorite episode of WOT. They really translated the tests into a gripping and emotional set of scenes. Heartbreaking acting as well. 😭
I agree. I think it's my favorite of the show, though E206 gives it a run for its money.
Your analysis is so good and just adds an incredible depth to the show. Sometimes on my first few watches of each episode I feel like they are missing and changing things, but your detailed analysis reminds me of all the layers to both the book and show. you, much like Perrin, forge something even more impressive out of these seemingly separate pieces. Glad to see you back making content
Thanks so much! People who say the show is "trash" or that it's terrible really don't look very closely. I hope I'm able to bring light to the good bits of the show.
As always, great video and I appreciate your take on this. I'd honestly be ok with this show dying out after S3. I held out hope when starting season 2, but they lost me at the ending. The actors are well cast and most of the acting is fine, but the writing (even out of context of the books) just falls way too short for me. Comparing to the books, the amount of gaffes and blatant disregard for lore accuracy and history of the world, intricate details, as well as just straying far too much from the main story and character arcs made me straight up uninterested. Expensive show that just feels cheap and mismanaged fan fiction to me. Brandon Sanderson himself systematically tearing the S2 finale apart during a live watch was the last blow to my hope for this. That said I know many are enjoying it and that's great! It just isn't the "LOTR movies and peak GoT or HoTD" level of adaptation I expected.
Honestly, I think a lot of people, me included, would prefer they cancel the show and do a remake in a couple of years. It's too late to get back what they have lost, or at least to my knowledge that hasn't really happened before. They messed up with what in their minds should have been a great pay day and the marketing and viewership numbers are a good indication of that.
Hope it will be cancelled. This show is a travesty. Not even close to the books.
k
I'm a massive books fan, I grew up with these. Frankly, the show has been such a huge dissapointment so far that I'd rather not see any more of it as it is to be honest, but that's me
Easy, just don't watch and continue to let the rest of us enjoy it. I personally love the books and like the show (sometimes I love the show, and sometimes I dislike it). But I don't want it to be canceled.
@@UnravelingthePattern Not that easy really. I don't see how my opinion is stopping anyone who wants to watch it from watching it. Frankly, if it was within my power, I would cancel it until someone better shows up to remake it. While you and I may disagree as much as we want, I personally know people who don't want to read the books because they think it's just the same crap as the show. I think we can both agree that this is not good. Preferentially, I'd rather have people read the books than watch the show. As a side benefit, the revenue will flow into RJ's estate instead of others who have abysmally failed at their work. But again, my opinion
This Show Adaptation is bad. It's really bad. I wanted it to be good and It's really bad. It should be cancelled.
k
I remember saying after season 1 that if the show didn't do better it wouldn't make it passed a third season. For me I feel like prime nabbed WoT just incase Rings of Power flopped and they had a back up. I think the issue is they do virtually nothing to promote the show. As a newbie to the series I've enjoyed the show and because of that picked up the books.
But the fact is: RoP is not going to "flop." In order to get the rights to make the show, Amazon had to guarantee 5 seasons. They had to sign those papers and commit to that, otherwise the Tolkien Estate would never give them the rights. So RoP is guaranteed 5 seasons no matter if it becomes this giant white whale sucking money out of all the other projects. Which by s3 certainly 4 it will. But Bezos loves LOTR and will fight for this his baby. WoT has always been operating on crumbs. It's beyond a shame, when WpT has been getting more bang for the buck.
Creating such big show for 8 season by this long time gaps between seasons is unachievable. Some shows needs to hit every year to be relevant. Wheel of Time stoped beiing that after season one when everybody saw the writing on the wall.
k
Welcome to Amazon's: The Wheel of Time, where the plot is made up and the books don't matter. Amazon failed two-fold with this show. Once when failing to adapt the WoT, then again in failing to make their own compelling fanfic. I still don't understand how fans of the books can say this is good. I checked out after episode 3 and have been hate-watching ever since. I can't even point to a "Well, at least they got this right." Because they didn't. They didn't get anything right.
k
Thank you for the amazing work you put in these videos. I would be devastated if the show doesn't get renewed but as you say, no need to panic for now. If it does get cancelled, Amazon and its stupid 2-year gaps will be the culprit in my opinion.
My Homeboy & Homegirl in the streaming industry have both told me that the entire business model is changing.... So NO ONE knows anything..... Top to bottom changes are happening (Especially in the European Market ) that these shows are dependent on...... Nothing we can do about it but ride it out.....And yes.... Post will be done by the end of the year (within a few weeks either way)... It could be out by the end of april ...... But $$$ will see it sit a few extra months....
I'd love to know more about what your homekids told you about the "changes". How is it changing, and what about Europe?
@@winters_lady170 Lmaoo... they aren't kids... they are old people like me (we grew up together/college) they have been in the industry for basically 35-40 years and know a lot about it.....They are both WoT book/ RJ fans...They think the $$$ is changing and that Europe is not going to be as cost effective as it once was.... which changes budgeting numbers, So big budget productions will suffer......The 2 year model isn't working because you have to have a HUGE Marketing push to re-invest your audience HoD is proving that point..... The whole "How many new subscriptions" model is outdated because everybody has Amazon now, so "new" doesn't matter as much as it did pre- pandemic..... All of the streaming services are trying to figure the new consumers wants and how to attract them... We wont get into the LONG drawn out discussion we had on "holding on to the Talent" on both sides of the camera post strikes..... I will just say this...House of Dragons numbers & then RoP numbers will tell a LOT about what's going on.... They don't hold out a lot of hope for WoT past season 4 if Rings of power flops again..... HBO has a winner but Amazon is hemorrhaging $$$....WoT is doing better than RoP on a 1/4 of the budget.....smh.....I hope this helps
I think it would be a relief if this show stops after season 3. I am sorry but this adaptation failed...either it is faithful or on its own. These actors deserve better, they are TERRIFIC! I wish them the best...and they won't get it from this show.
Amazing insight on the stylings on the arches. I never would have connected those dots!
About HoTD: it isn't doing as well as hoped. This is a fascinating test case for WOT and other shows affected by the strikes. At the time everyone was hailing hoTD for keeping on production through the strike and how it would make its target date. But the lack of rewrites has really killed the quality of S2 and it has gotten to the point where even the most diehard GOT fans are complaining. Pacing issues, script, flat characterization, everything except FX. The poster who said "The dragons in s2 have more personality than the people" is exactly right and many agree. Plus a beloved minor character that a lot of fans were looking forward to seeing has probably been cut (we'll see, the Finale is tonight) and that is going to cause a HUGE stink if she is cut. In WoT terms, it would be as if Verin had been cut. And the "2 yrs between, 8 eps" thing is a huge compalint too. Plus, there was a same-sex smooch at the end of Ep 6 and for a week the GOT world got a taste of the WOT world. Floods of hate comments, 1-star review bombings etc. It was huge and vicious. Now I think I know who most of the "haters"really are. I really hope the lack of rewrites is not going to diminish the quality of what S3 will be. The best part of the season--the Waste--was filmed after the strikes so what we will see is what Rafe envisioned. But everything else will be raw 1st draft, most likely. No time for reshoots as Donal was off doing Hadestown by that point.
Excellent video Lauren as always. But I feel you've only begun to crack the surface here. I suggested this to Jon, but I'm making the suggestion to you too: I would love to see a series strictly on the business side of Wot or streaming in general. Maybe Part 1 would be on how the streaming model works compared to broadcast TV and cable. Questions like how does a streamer measure "profit". Why some like Amazon value subs more than "profit"/views. How does the Neilsen ratings work with streaming vs the old days of Broadcast TV. And why do the studios like to fudge those numbers. I used to watch a channel called John Campea where he broke all this down, but he turned into a Disney/Marvel shill so I stopped watching. Part 2, maybe tackle the issue of WHY studios are moving to 2-yr-gap between seasons + less seasons/episodes and how the strikes might impact this further. Personally I feel like the studios are trying to push back against the gains won by the "creatives" in the strikes (esp the writers) so they might want shorter seasons to keep them in the churn. It's not just the FX. But that's just IMO. Not a big reason, but one of them. Part 3, maybe talk about WOT specific. Break down the nuts and bolts of the business arrangment between Red Eagle/SonyAmazon. Just how much % of "profits" does RE get and b/c iWot demands so much money, does this impact the perception of Wot with the suits and does this help or hurt their desire to market the show. last: Lauren, check your Reddit DM's. I wish this had come out yesterday b/c I had further thoughts on WoT. How just a closing S4 might look vs if there is a S5. Speculation about plot, etc. It depends on if Amazon really sees this as a show to fight for. I have concerns about how S3 might look too. Just read it and see. I'd love for open speculation on some of this. But, a "business" series might be a great way to start! It might get other people interested who are wondering about the state of streaming and get viral beyond the WOT community. I have something I want to do to spread the word that I was going to do after S2 ended but never got around to it. Now I have to make time to do it. And Happy belated Name-day!
Thanks Winters Lady! I honestly don't know enough about those subjects to be confident enough to make a video about them, but it's a good idea!
I understood what Jon was saying but I can see how it could stir up some panic. Here's hoping that this message reaches many ears
Wow, best episode review of all.
Ill say this much: I stopped watching WoT Up some time ago because his takes were just wild click bait most of the time (in my opinion of course), and as someone who has worked in performance film and television his understanding of the industry is poor to say the least. I think you make some excellent points here, and at the end of the day the wheel weaves and the wheel wills.
I really really hope that this abomination of a show, that does not deserve the name 'Wheel of Time', DOES get cancelled. Thanks to Rafe Judkins and his horrendous writers, poor Robert Jordan must be rolling in his grave at the sheer desecration of his beautiful story. Like Rings of Power, Amazon is pushing identity politics and wokeness over story and character fidelity. DOWN. WITH. THIS. SHOW.
Still amazed at people who use the term "woke" for the show, who then find the books OK... You know, book series where all the channelling men went CRAZY and destroyed the world, and the magic super women got in charge, and had to save it...
@@Bruced82 Well that’s easy - what you describe is not “woke” at all. It’s good storytelling. What makes this show woke is not the subject matter or themes, but the manner in which the writers decide to tell that story, and what changes they make. Just to be 100% clear - it is NOT the subject matter or themes. Have I simplified things enough for you?
@@williamegan6756 "Everything I don't like is woke." That's what you're saying, so basically nothing at all. I simplified it even further for you.
@@Bruced82 LOL, I sincerely doubt you could, with such a gross misunderstanding of what I said above. But let me at least try to help you: (1)writers made fundamental changes to the story and mythos, that fundamentally undermined Jordan’s whole concept of saidin/saidar; (2j gross and stupid character changes, such as Perrin killing his (nonexistent)wife for reasons that even now are illogical. On that point, even Brandon Sanderson vehemently disagreed with them and has said so publicly. (3) If this show is actually any good, then why is this topic of cancellation even coming up? I’ll tell you why, Amazon has lost its initial audience in droves. The second season did worse than the first. All signs of a show that is losing its audience. Why does a show lose its audience? They don’t like what they see. If your audience doesn’t like what they see and you are losing them, that makes that show a failure. All of that is not just me saying the show is bad. The evidence is there for anyone not dealing with copium enough to see it. Put a different way, if this show were a runaway hit and firing on all cylinders, then this video would never have been created. But it has…. because this show is dogshit.
@@williamegan6756 Your original main point why this show is bad, and why it should be cancelled, is because you claim it is "woke", your examples of Perrin's wife dying, or how Saidin/Saidar work in the show, has got nothing to do with that. Good, well viewed shows get cancelled too, or only go to 3-5 seasons, this would not be exclusive to WoT. (might or might not happen, it is still up in the air at this point) I've followed plenty of other shows (with weaker first seasons) that walked a tight rope of getting cancelled, or even got revived, like Agents of Shield or Futurama, this is again not exclusive to WoT. The show is not for you (or many others), that's absolutely fine, but why keep complaining and calling for its cancellation, the books are all written, nothing will change what the books contain (unlike for example GoT, which is not finished, and which the show semi tarnished with S7-8).
As as paying subscriber to Amazon, they raise the price every year and now they have ads on the videos unless you want to pay more money yet they will not give us what we want. That’s not how you retain subscribers ,Amazon .
I actually think it should be cancelled...it has done a lot to drive people away from The Wheel of Time in droves. Its a shame to because Amazon Studios didn't even bother to tell the story that is in books that they may have enjoyed
K
This thumbnail is genius. Also, ty for being here to keep the fandom sane!
Cancel
why is this show still even a thing. im honestly suprised people want this insult to continue
It's almost like there are people who like things that you don't. Shocking, I know, but everyone is different and has different preferences.
@@UnravelingthePattern not if something is objectively bad especially when it has so much to pull from Robert Jordans work. my issue with the show is that they dont even try to stay faithful to the soul of The wheel of time.
@churabros3321 you don't know what "objectively" means, do you?
@@UnravelingthePattern im just passionate about the books and i feel the tv show is just a cash grab, they just slap the name on and hire writers who want to write their own thing. its insulting to me
@churabros3321 that's a subjective opinion
Please do a black tower vid I need some explanations about it !
Hopefully some day!
Come on people, where are the likes on this video (and so many others)?? Let's support those who love WoT as much as we do and on top of that dedicate hours to produce top quality material!
Hello Lauren!! It's always great to see you again. Thanks for another high quality video!
I love the show. Obviously I love the books more, books are almost always better (Except for the Expanse, I liked the show better than the books, that they covered anyway…should never have ended like that). The first season wasn’t perfect, but season 2 was much better. I would expect each season to improve and I really hope that happens. But it’s a different medium and especially with WOT, you can’t have 3k characters in a tv show. So I don’t compare, I appreciate each for what they are. Having more seasons of the show is only a good thing imo.
"Show continuing will depend on it's success" "No way that's not how things work" LMAO
Lol, it's obviously successful. The question is will it continue to be? Jon's video was very clear about how if you compare WoT, RoP and HotD marketing numbers to their viewer numbers, WoT is actually doing very well considering they're getting way lower budgets for production and for marketing than the other 2. WoT is very popular considering the attention they give it.