grown men build proas, just to show they are not afraid of feeling foolish.
@fjordproa651013 күн бұрын
Why should anyone feel foolish sailing Proas ?
@alfred-vz8ti13 күн бұрын
@@fjordproa6510 good rig for trans-pac, in-shore clumsy and inefficient.
@fjordproa651012 күн бұрын
@@alfred-vz8ti Hello, traditional boats were actually all somehow clumsy from today's point of view. My boat is now working quite well in narrow waters, look at video#18 from 2:46 or 4:49. Efficiency is a question in relation to what? Of course, modern racing boats are sailing better, but they also cost x to infinity times more. James Wharram said that one should not compare his boats with modern boats of the same size, but with boats of the same cost. Then his boats do well in all areas. Much larger, thus more seaworthiness, more living space and about the same speed at comparable costs. And due to the low tech used, it is also easier to repair everywhere. My old tarpsail lasted 3 years. I have now built a new one. Material costs 70 euros + 4 hours of manual work. Without the sewing machine it would have taken 2 hours longer. And the material is available in every hardware shop worldwide. I think that's also efficient. I think there is still a lot of potential in proas. I want to adapt Proas to our present conditions. Then maybe more people will be interested in it and contribute their ideas. I mainly have ideas and timeI it would be good if someone would invest money in hydro and saildynamic research. All other problems are not so difficult to solve.
@amadeusguy1009Ай бұрын
wish I could see more of the boat. maybe from another boat alongside.
@Kuike808Ай бұрын
What is grid foil? Is it a tarp material?
@fjordproa6510Ай бұрын
Yes. PVC weather protection fabric tarp from the hardware store.
@christiandalgas3082Ай бұрын
Bonjour , la coque asymétrique offre une portance sans traînée supplémentaire bravo (cf HC 14 et 16) votre démonstration et accastillage pour virement de bord en abattant même par force 6 est une merveille de sécurité et efficacité ; alors qu un virement vent debout pour un multi léger avec la vague du vent est impossible sans faire marche arrière (inversion des safrans et masquer la GV) Merci pour le partage ❤Xian
@kantamana12 ай бұрын
Cool. Sewing a sail doesn't have to take long. In africa the big lateen sails are sewn in just a few hours. Are you danish like me? I am now starting building my own proa here in Macirbe, Latvia. It would be cool to meet you guys, maybe there is another upcoming baltic proa meeting?
@fjordproa65102 ай бұрын
Nej, jeg er tysk og bor i Flensborg. We are planning a meeting in the first half of September. Just ask Henrik from www.proas.is. He wants to organize it in Surendorf. 15 km north of Kiel. Mange hilsner Lars fra Flensborg
@kantamana12 ай бұрын
@@fjordproa6510 That is exciting! Thank you for bringing me in contact. Med venlig hilsen Carl Emil fra København
@sven-erikviira1872Ай бұрын
@@fjordproa6510Would a bermuda rigged asymmetric catamaran be an anathema to proas? I did my first ghetto rigged sailing in 2019, since then I have built a new ama in 2020 and am currently finishing new vaka. As I live 200km from the sea and there is just one bigger lake nearby, I have designed my boat around ease of transportation and fun of sailing. Also materials at hand have guided the designs... Greetings from Estonia.
@dominictarrsailing2 ай бұрын
very nice shunt right up to the rocks but didn't hit them! I am sure that old proa drawing is wrong, with the boom horizontal and the luff of the sail the same angle as the yard, i'm not sure why they drew it like that but I never found footage of anyone sailing like that (except if they had rigged their boat from those drawings) I like the rolling technique! I've also folded it over a small line and then hand sewed that rope in. (I've seen photos of pacific islanders doing it like that)
@davidjooste57882 ай бұрын
Beatiful boat but i cant see you doing that in 2 m swell with a 30 knot breeze hammering you flat.
@fjordproa65102 ай бұрын
Yes, you won't, because it's Henrik's and Christian's boat. 😜 But take a look at www.Proas.is there they describe that it workes quite well.
@ferrokkkk70322 ай бұрын
The interest is cute! Won’t buy a proa from Northern Europe…!promise😊
@Clovis3212 ай бұрын
não manobra como outros barcos que tem leme? Como se manobra num proa? Sempre que vejo é só pra frente e pra trás....
@fjordproa65102 ай бұрын
Sim, os proas estão sempre indo e voltando. O boom é sempre de barlavento. E eu não uso remo. Dê uma olhada nos meus outros vídeos. Espero que a tradução não seja muito ruim.
@Clovis3212 ай бұрын
@@fjordproa6510 a tradução foi muito boa. Entendi o que quis dizer.
@gregsavige35872 ай бұрын
That's going well. It's keeping you busy though. I would have flipped it for sure. Good stuff. Very interesting. 👍
@Clovis3212 ай бұрын
I still don't understand what the advantage of "proa" is. The entire time the assistant is out of the water and listing as if it were a monohull. I still don't understand the proposal.
@fjordproa65102 ай бұрын
Hi, that's a good point. What are the advantages of a Proa? First of all, I find interesting to try out something different. The wind always comes from the same side, you can steer without a rudder, you have a crab claw sail. Why is the outrigger to windward? At catamarans or tries, the mast is in the middle. The hulls not only have to carry the weight of the boat, but also the sail pressure, which pushes the leeward hull into the water. What increases the resistance. The Proa only needs to support its weight. The sail pressure lifts the outrigger which moves then through the 800 x thinner air. And of course, every proasegler wants to have the outrigger flying. It is also much easier to right a Proa after capsizing, because it usually only capsizes up to 90°. I think that Proas still have quite a lot of potential. So if someone would put a lot of money and time into it, he could still achieve something. But I have just time to invest. There are more aspects, but that's going too far for now. I think I'll make a video about it. It's just fun for me. Even if an old Hobie 16 is still faster than my Proa.
@Clovis3212 ай бұрын
@@fjordproa6510 I see a lot of people involved with Proa, they must have their reasons. Anyway, thank you very much for your attention. I'll follow you and learn about the subject. Good luck and stay with God!
@markthomasson50773 ай бұрын
All goes to show what a wonderful thing a rudder and centre board is.
@markthomasson50773 ай бұрын
Nice explanation. But you are incorrect with the centre of pressure in the hull. As soon as you gain way it moves forwards. That’s why in this type craft the sail has to be pulled right to the bow.
@fjordproa65103 ай бұрын
Hello, interesting point. But isn't it the case that the sail pressure point also moves forward when sailing? Couldn't that level out again?
@markthomasson50773 ай бұрын
@@fjordproa6510 probably, but not as much. I used a windsurfer rig on my 16’ proa. I guess with the full battens that was very stable. I had hoped to control it with the sheet as you show, but no luck.
@fjordproa65103 ай бұрын
@@markthomasson5077 I had also started with a surf rig. Didn't work for me either. But with the crab claw sail it worked very well.
@alexjoz3 ай бұрын
what is the material of those white things on top and bottom of the mast joints and inside the mast support (rope extention mechanism)?
@fjordproa65103 ай бұрын
In German it is sold as Delrin or Pom. The actual plastic is Polyoxymethylene or Polyacetals.
@alexjoz3 ай бұрын
@@fjordproa6510 great, got it. Thank you!
@lesp3152 ай бұрын
@@fjordproa6510 Also known as Acetal. Nice Proa👍
@therealzilch3 ай бұрын
Schaut superlustig aus. Neid pur. Tolle Arbeit. Grüße aus sonnigem Wien, Scott
@hntrains23 ай бұрын
Is this your own build?
@fjordproa65103 ай бұрын
No, this boat was designed and built by Klaus Deppermann. I described it in video #9. The other proa from my other videos is designed and built by me.
@hntrains23 ай бұрын
@@fjordproa6510, thank you - including for the demonstrations both on land and on the water. Would a wider hull not be as efficient in the waves and wind?
@fjordproa65103 ай бұрын
@@hntrains2 Actually, I think that a narrow hull is faster. As long as you drive through the water and dont glide on it. Which is the case with multihull boats (Displacement hull). But of course, one has to make compromises to achieve enough volume, for a given length
@ButterflyMatt3 ай бұрын
Nice! Great video. Beautiful boat!
@patrikcalloch79533 ай бұрын
c est ce livre que j'ai acheté avec bonheur en 2016. je recommande expressément ;
@pelageos3 ай бұрын
Cool!
@thomaskamp93653 ай бұрын
Es gibt noch eine weitere Möglichkeit zur Steuerung auf Ihrem Boot. Sie können noch die Position des Mastfußes verändern zum Trimmen. Wenn Sie den Mastfuß 10 cm nach vorne oder hinten ziehen und arretieren, dann verändert sich auch der Segel-Druckpunkt zum Lateral-Druckpunkt. Zu beachten ist aber, dass der Lateral-Druckpunkt sich strömungstechnisch bewegt. Er ist also nicht wie bei einem normalen (europäischen) Segelboot durch Kiel und Ruder an einem festen Punkt gehalten, sondern wandert mit Strömungsrichtung und Fahrtrichtung, da die Strömung um den Vaka (also die entstehenden Strömungskräfte) den Lateral-Druckpunkt bilden.
@therealzilch3 ай бұрын
Danke aus bewölktem Wien, Scott
@cornelisnaturliv6584 ай бұрын
Super deutliche Erklärung! Mit wenig Worten simpel auf den Punkt gebracht. Du machst das fabelhaft. Ich schwelge immer noch in tollen Erinnerungen, trotz der schwachwindigen Segelverhältnisse letztens. Danke dafür
@Mcohni4 ай бұрын
Congratulations on a such a beautifully efficient sailing canoe. Very interesting article and spot on in my experience. Once helm is is balanced with little or no weather helm the canoe can be steered with body weight and sail trim . With ama to windward weight back to come up on to the wind and as my canoe is a tacking outrigger it's weigh forward to come up on to the wind and weight back to bear away with ama to leeward . It's the slight change in the centre of lateral resistance that does it . I find the asymmetry of the tacking outrigger really interesting . I may have to build a pacific proa as they look like fun . both canoe types have their advantages and disadvantages . Cheers
@baltictramp94514 ай бұрын
👍
@robertlaird67464 ай бұрын
Sail trim and weight placement will steer a proa.
@nathanhendry15954 ай бұрын
Very cool. How do you steer?
@fjordproa65104 ай бұрын
Hello, small proas like mine can be steered without rudders only by trimming and shifting weight. I've already described this partial in other videos. For example #8 and #20. But I think I should make an extra video about it.
@fjordproa65104 ай бұрын
So now I made a short video about steering.
@matthiasschonborn75404 ай бұрын
Supercool, vielen Dank für's Teilen.
@fjordproa65104 ай бұрын
Sehr gerne!
@michel47655 ай бұрын
Hallo Fjordproa, ich würde gerne Kontakt aufnehmen, gibt es eine Möglichkeit? Wo trefft Ihr euch und wo tauscht Ihr euch aus? VG, Michel
Very quick and efficient! Sure would want to keep that track well-lubricated. Not sure what would work under wet conditions. If it were dry, maybe graphite powder? Looks like you're got it figured out, though. Nice job!
@fjordproa65105 ай бұрын
Hello, I'm using a traveler systems from Harken It doesn't need to be lubricated and runs wet even better.
@fjordproa65105 ай бұрын
Of course, it's not cheap. I estimate that the system is 25% of the material price for the Proa.
@jackkorovev52175 ай бұрын
Why not a close circuit to faster shunting? There is a particular reason to move manually the sail?
@fjordproa65105 ай бұрын
Hello, take a look at kzread.info/dash/bejne/epemmNJvdZvHn7Q.html
@proasisproject5 ай бұрын
We just like the traditional way. For us it works perfectly fine, very easy, reliable and fail safe. It's also a special sensation you won't find on many boats. I guess it's a mixture of a keep it simple attitude and preferences for the traditional setup. Kind of like people with old gaff rigged boats or some tall ships. Interestingly, a shunting system wouldn't make the boat "better" in any way. Just more complex. Western people seem to think that a shunting system is a must have on a proa but it really isnt. We learned proa sailing from the locals on the marshall islands. Those guys don't even use front and back stays on the small canoes. Check out our dedicated video about that topic on the Proasis channel!
@jackkorovev52175 ай бұрын
@@proasisproject I like your project, but is definitely a "western" one. It is full of innovation not present in traditional proas, so question was legitimate. It could be better just share info and not lessons, avoiding making bold assumptions like the creator of Harryproa did, ruining his reputation.
@proasisproject5 ай бұрын
@@jackkorovev5217yeah we certainly adapted the concept in some ways to suit the different conditions we have on the baltic. Quite different from the lagoons of Micronesia. And after all it's a prototype with some experimental stuff we tried for the finished design for the marshall islands. Quite often the experiments failed and we eventually ended up using the traditional solution. The rigging for example is almost 100% traditional. We try to show proasis sailing in different conditions as much as possible so people can make up their own minds. Also the call is open for everyone to join sailing. We always wanted a canoe that we enjoy sailing, especially singlehanded. Proasis is by no means perfect but we enjoy the adventure a lot! Can't wait for spring to get back on the water.
@jackkorovev52175 ай бұрын
@@proasisproject I think your project could be a game changer. It is VERY interesting. Please keep pushing, experimenting, having fun and trying to build good quality information about this. Stay humble, tho! With westerners and, most important, with islanders!
@jonymanay5 ай бұрын
Nice can we have a look how you sleep inside.
@fjordproa65105 ай бұрын
Perhaps. But that's not my boat. I just sailed along. You have to ask Henrik from www.proas.is.
@proasisproject5 ай бұрын
Sure, will prepare a room tour video once we get back on the water!
@jonymanay5 ай бұрын
@@proasisproject Thanks it looks like a real chill ride. Im really thinking of building something one day. Ive been interested in proas and wharrum cats. Watching from NZ.
@xandolucena5 ай бұрын
Love your boat! wish there were plans availuable.
@fjordproa65105 ай бұрын
Hello, is not my boat. But take a look at www.proas.is
@proasisproject5 ай бұрын
Proasis was the prototype for a transport and fishing vessel for the marshall islands. Because of that we have no plans available but there will be a detailed step by step construction manual published soon. Much better than a plan.
@proasisproject5 ай бұрын
Wow what a great video! Thank you so much for filming and editing. That was a nice sailing adventure 😊
@8ahau2795 ай бұрын
Why not call it Kiribati instead of Gilbert Islands?
@fjordproa65105 ай бұрын
Hello, because I and everyone else knews it under this name and it is also mentioned in the literature which, of course, is older. But one never stops learning. As long as it sails as always. Regards.
@8ahau2795 ай бұрын
@fjordproa6510 Fair enough. The country only gained independence in 1979. Nice Proa, by the way.
@Antipodean335 ай бұрын
Imagine trying to do that shunting business single handed in anything approaching a blow
@proasisproject5 ай бұрын
We sail proasis single or short handed most of the time. Three years in now, have seen all types of condition, sun, rain, storm, ice , night waves etc. The traditional shunting is easy, reliable, simple and safe. A shunting system wouldnt make the boat any better, just more complex. Check out our video about shunting: kzread.info/dash/bejne/epemmNJvdZvHn7Q.htmlsi=08oubXHav0bS9g3o
@wailinburnin5 ай бұрын
I love this channel! Keep up this inspiring work!
@fjordproa65105 ай бұрын
Thank you! I'm trying.
@wailinburnin5 ай бұрын
That looks like a very well built boat that could make remarkable passages and the complete dead stop of the shunt looks like you could handle a pretty nasty sea state so you can stand off shunting back and forth if you get somewhere and conditions aren’t right for going in. So to me, if I was clever enough to get this far along, I’d be working on some kind of shunting system where you can sit or stand right in the center of the boat and have lines rigged to shunt in horrible swell and waves, you might need a track that the tack rides on and all circular sheeting type of running rigging, it would have to be pretty clever but it looks like you could do it. Beautiful boat, it looks like you become one with the sea in it, like it feels good, all the best to you!
@proasisproject5 ай бұрын
Thanks! Check out the Proasis KZread channel. We have a video explaining exactly why don't have a shunting system. Cheers!
@ericwolfgangragay41855 ай бұрын
Happy new year!
@fjordproa65105 ай бұрын
Thank you, you too and health to all
@RommelCart5 ай бұрын
I reckon,,,,but what would i know,,,that on the centerline of the sail,from the tack to the middle of the leech,,that should be somewhat of a naca foil shape,,,the spars also need some shape somewhat resembling the same shape maybe...that means you would have a somewhat radial design sail,,,the micronesians wove quite a fullness into their sails from the tack to about 40ish percent up the centerline of the sail...they also cut large cutouts in the leech...encourages the vortex,i hear...cool boat..nice vids,,,,i think theres a lot of power to be gained with sailshaping,,,
@fjordproa65105 ай бұрын
Hello, I made my sail from a cheap pvc foil from the hardware store. So it doesn't have a profiel. The front spar is a surf mast therefore straight. I glued the lower spar with curves but cut out the sail to match. A sail profiel is therefore only created by the fact that the spars bend a bit and the foil is somewhat stretchy. I have my own explanation of the cutout in the leech. Practically every proa builder I know realizes that his boat wants to go into the wind at the beginning. So the sail pressure point also has to move forward. The easiest way to do this is to cut something out of the trailing edge. Until it fits. I could imagine that it was the same with the Polynesians and then gradually became the norm. And if you don't use sail battens, the cutout is also good.
@robhosailor5 ай бұрын
Bravo Reto!
@tomedom51075 ай бұрын
I think Reto could consider a stiffer mast, and boom, to match the more powerful rig! BTW its great to see that he is still sailing and developing Lili after all these years. Well done you Baltic Proa guys for meeting up each year and thanks @Fjordproa for a whole series of great videos!
@fjordproa65105 ай бұрын
Hello, thank you. Reto is already working on the stiffer mast and boom. It was very helpful to get the individual people together. You get to know each other better and can exchange experiences. Henrik von www.Proas.is wants to organize a meeting next year.
@robertlaird67465 ай бұрын
I'd like to build something like this. How long is your boat and what would you say is the shortest Proa that you can make that still sails well?
@fjordproa65105 ай бұрын
Hello my Proa is 6 meter long. Reto's is a P5 of 5 meter, sails really verry well and can even be transported on the car roof. Free plans at www.karschulin.de
@robertlaird67465 ай бұрын
@@fjordproa6510 Thank you but I clicked on the link and can't read it. The link also didn't have a link that I could click on. I'm in the USA. A P5 sounds like it would be the right size for me. I weigh 230 pounds.
@tomedom51075 ай бұрын
@@robertlaird6746 You could try the email link at the bottom of Othmar's Projekte page. I got a Delftship file from him of P5 quite a few years ago and I have some JPGs of the drawings. He's a friendly guy. Another essential reference is Garry Dierking's book 'Building outrigger sailing canoes'. It is a goldmine of information for small proa dreamers, builders and sailors. It contains plans for 3 canoes, one of which is a dedicated shunter, another can be built as a shunter plus a good choice of shunting rigs, all worked out from his experience. Get to it!
@fjordproa65105 ай бұрын
@@robertlaird6746 That's right, I couldn't open it no more either. But I found this here, hope that's how it workes for you. multihull.de/proa/p5/p5over.gif multihull.de/proa/p5/p5luv.gif multihull.de/proa/p5/p5lee.gif multihull.de/proa/p5/p5ausleger.gif multihull.de/proa/p5/p5gurte.gif
@robertlaird67465 ай бұрын
@@fjordproa6510 Thanks. Is this your boat design?
@warjacare6 ай бұрын
Somewhat complicated.
@proasisproject6 ай бұрын
What is complicated?
@NeuralEngin33r6 ай бұрын
Fascinating design.
@fjordproa65106 ай бұрын
Hello you find information on www.Proas.is
@muddundee6 ай бұрын
Very efficient & clean, What make & size of track are you using for the tack of the yard?
@fjordproa65106 ай бұрын
Thanks, I wanted it to build it as simple as possible, I use a rail from Harken with a width of 22mm.
@muddundee6 ай бұрын
Thanks for that, our proa is a bit bigger so we are probably going to run with 26mm Ronstan gear. @@fjordproa6510
@RommelCart6 ай бұрын
Pretty cool tho
@Arnolulu-rk7uy6 ай бұрын
Similar to Marshall Islands canoe or walap.
@jackkorovev52176 ай бұрын
Ugh. I envy you so much, guys!
@johncoffin1006 ай бұрын
Hi, what did you use to make the sail? I am hoping to build my own proa based on the P5 that Reto sails.
@fjordproa65106 ай бұрын
Hello, I think the P5 is a very good design. I made my sail from PVC fabrictarp from the hardware store. First you have to find out which sail fits to your boat. You can experiment with the cheap foil sail. The sail I've had for the last 3 years is just starting to unravel, and to build such a sail takes only 1-2 hours. I'm going to make a video on the subject this winter anyway. Have fun building.
@johncoffin1006 ай бұрын
Thanks for that. I am looking forward to seeing how you made your sail. @@fjordproa6510
Пікірлер
Marshallese canoe vs kiribati canoe who winning
grown men build proas, just to show they are not afraid of feeling foolish.
Why should anyone feel foolish sailing Proas ?
@@fjordproa6510 good rig for trans-pac, in-shore clumsy and inefficient.
@@alfred-vz8ti Hello, traditional boats were actually all somehow clumsy from today's point of view. My boat is now working quite well in narrow waters, look at video#18 from 2:46 or 4:49. Efficiency is a question in relation to what? Of course, modern racing boats are sailing better, but they also cost x to infinity times more. James Wharram said that one should not compare his boats with modern boats of the same size, but with boats of the same cost. Then his boats do well in all areas. Much larger, thus more seaworthiness, more living space and about the same speed at comparable costs. And due to the low tech used, it is also easier to repair everywhere. My old tarpsail lasted 3 years. I have now built a new one. Material costs 70 euros + 4 hours of manual work. Without the sewing machine it would have taken 2 hours longer. And the material is available in every hardware shop worldwide. I think that's also efficient. I think there is still a lot of potential in proas. I want to adapt Proas to our present conditions. Then maybe more people will be interested in it and contribute their ideas. I mainly have ideas and timeI it would be good if someone would invest money in hydro and saildynamic research. All other problems are not so difficult to solve.
wish I could see more of the boat. maybe from another boat alongside.
What is grid foil? Is it a tarp material?
Yes. PVC weather protection fabric tarp from the hardware store.
Bonjour , la coque asymétrique offre une portance sans traînée supplémentaire bravo (cf HC 14 et 16) votre démonstration et accastillage pour virement de bord en abattant même par force 6 est une merveille de sécurité et efficacité ; alors qu un virement vent debout pour un multi léger avec la vague du vent est impossible sans faire marche arrière (inversion des safrans et masquer la GV) Merci pour le partage ❤Xian
Cool. Sewing a sail doesn't have to take long. In africa the big lateen sails are sewn in just a few hours. Are you danish like me? I am now starting building my own proa here in Macirbe, Latvia. It would be cool to meet you guys, maybe there is another upcoming baltic proa meeting?
Nej, jeg er tysk og bor i Flensborg. We are planning a meeting in the first half of September. Just ask Henrik from www.proas.is. He wants to organize it in Surendorf. 15 km north of Kiel. Mange hilsner Lars fra Flensborg
@@fjordproa6510 That is exciting! Thank you for bringing me in contact. Med venlig hilsen Carl Emil fra København
@@fjordproa6510Would a bermuda rigged asymmetric catamaran be an anathema to proas? I did my first ghetto rigged sailing in 2019, since then I have built a new ama in 2020 and am currently finishing new vaka. As I live 200km from the sea and there is just one bigger lake nearby, I have designed my boat around ease of transportation and fun of sailing. Also materials at hand have guided the designs... Greetings from Estonia.
very nice shunt right up to the rocks but didn't hit them! I am sure that old proa drawing is wrong, with the boom horizontal and the luff of the sail the same angle as the yard, i'm not sure why they drew it like that but I never found footage of anyone sailing like that (except if they had rigged their boat from those drawings) I like the rolling technique! I've also folded it over a small line and then hand sewed that rope in. (I've seen photos of pacific islanders doing it like that)
Beatiful boat but i cant see you doing that in 2 m swell with a 30 knot breeze hammering you flat.
Yes, you won't, because it's Henrik's and Christian's boat. 😜 But take a look at www.Proas.is there they describe that it workes quite well.
The interest is cute! Won’t buy a proa from Northern Europe…!promise😊
não manobra como outros barcos que tem leme? Como se manobra num proa? Sempre que vejo é só pra frente e pra trás....
Sim, os proas estão sempre indo e voltando. O boom é sempre de barlavento. E eu não uso remo. Dê uma olhada nos meus outros vídeos. Espero que a tradução não seja muito ruim.
@@fjordproa6510 a tradução foi muito boa. Entendi o que quis dizer.
That's going well. It's keeping you busy though. I would have flipped it for sure. Good stuff. Very interesting. 👍
I still don't understand what the advantage of "proa" is. The entire time the assistant is out of the water and listing as if it were a monohull. I still don't understand the proposal.
Hi, that's a good point. What are the advantages of a Proa? First of all, I find interesting to try out something different. The wind always comes from the same side, you can steer without a rudder, you have a crab claw sail. Why is the outrigger to windward? At catamarans or tries, the mast is in the middle. The hulls not only have to carry the weight of the boat, but also the sail pressure, which pushes the leeward hull into the water. What increases the resistance. The Proa only needs to support its weight. The sail pressure lifts the outrigger which moves then through the 800 x thinner air. And of course, every proasegler wants to have the outrigger flying. It is also much easier to right a Proa after capsizing, because it usually only capsizes up to 90°. I think that Proas still have quite a lot of potential. So if someone would put a lot of money and time into it, he could still achieve something. But I have just time to invest. There are more aspects, but that's going too far for now. I think I'll make a video about it. It's just fun for me. Even if an old Hobie 16 is still faster than my Proa.
@@fjordproa6510 I see a lot of people involved with Proa, they must have their reasons. Anyway, thank you very much for your attention. I'll follow you and learn about the subject. Good luck and stay with God!
All goes to show what a wonderful thing a rudder and centre board is.
Nice explanation. But you are incorrect with the centre of pressure in the hull. As soon as you gain way it moves forwards. That’s why in this type craft the sail has to be pulled right to the bow.
Hello, interesting point. But isn't it the case that the sail pressure point also moves forward when sailing? Couldn't that level out again?
@@fjordproa6510 probably, but not as much. I used a windsurfer rig on my 16’ proa. I guess with the full battens that was very stable. I had hoped to control it with the sheet as you show, but no luck.
@@markthomasson5077 I had also started with a surf rig. Didn't work for me either. But with the crab claw sail it worked very well.
what is the material of those white things on top and bottom of the mast joints and inside the mast support (rope extention mechanism)?
In German it is sold as Delrin or Pom. The actual plastic is Polyoxymethylene or Polyacetals.
@@fjordproa6510 great, got it. Thank you!
@@fjordproa6510 Also known as Acetal. Nice Proa👍
Schaut superlustig aus. Neid pur. Tolle Arbeit. Grüße aus sonnigem Wien, Scott
Is this your own build?
No, this boat was designed and built by Klaus Deppermann. I described it in video #9. The other proa from my other videos is designed and built by me.
@@fjordproa6510, thank you - including for the demonstrations both on land and on the water. Would a wider hull not be as efficient in the waves and wind?
@@hntrains2 Actually, I think that a narrow hull is faster. As long as you drive through the water and dont glide on it. Which is the case with multihull boats (Displacement hull). But of course, one has to make compromises to achieve enough volume, for a given length
Nice! Great video. Beautiful boat!
c est ce livre que j'ai acheté avec bonheur en 2016. je recommande expressément ;
Cool!
Es gibt noch eine weitere Möglichkeit zur Steuerung auf Ihrem Boot. Sie können noch die Position des Mastfußes verändern zum Trimmen. Wenn Sie den Mastfuß 10 cm nach vorne oder hinten ziehen und arretieren, dann verändert sich auch der Segel-Druckpunkt zum Lateral-Druckpunkt. Zu beachten ist aber, dass der Lateral-Druckpunkt sich strömungstechnisch bewegt. Er ist also nicht wie bei einem normalen (europäischen) Segelboot durch Kiel und Ruder an einem festen Punkt gehalten, sondern wandert mit Strömungsrichtung und Fahrtrichtung, da die Strömung um den Vaka (also die entstehenden Strömungskräfte) den Lateral-Druckpunkt bilden.
Danke aus bewölktem Wien, Scott
Super deutliche Erklärung! Mit wenig Worten simpel auf den Punkt gebracht. Du machst das fabelhaft. Ich schwelge immer noch in tollen Erinnerungen, trotz der schwachwindigen Segelverhältnisse letztens. Danke dafür
Congratulations on a such a beautifully efficient sailing canoe. Very interesting article and spot on in my experience. Once helm is is balanced with little or no weather helm the canoe can be steered with body weight and sail trim . With ama to windward weight back to come up on to the wind and as my canoe is a tacking outrigger it's weigh forward to come up on to the wind and weight back to bear away with ama to leeward . It's the slight change in the centre of lateral resistance that does it . I find the asymmetry of the tacking outrigger really interesting . I may have to build a pacific proa as they look like fun . both canoe types have their advantages and disadvantages . Cheers
👍
Sail trim and weight placement will steer a proa.
Very cool. How do you steer?
Hello, small proas like mine can be steered without rudders only by trimming and shifting weight. I've already described this partial in other videos. For example #8 and #20. But I think I should make an extra video about it.
So now I made a short video about steering.
Supercool, vielen Dank für's Teilen.
Sehr gerne!
Hallo Fjordproa, ich würde gerne Kontakt aufnehmen, gibt es eine Möglichkeit? Wo trefft Ihr euch und wo tauscht Ihr euch aus? VG, Michel
Hallo, du kannst mir schreiben unter [email protected] Vg Lars
Very quick and efficient! Sure would want to keep that track well-lubricated. Not sure what would work under wet conditions. If it were dry, maybe graphite powder? Looks like you're got it figured out, though. Nice job!
Hello, I'm using a traveler systems from Harken It doesn't need to be lubricated and runs wet even better.
Of course, it's not cheap. I estimate that the system is 25% of the material price for the Proa.
Why not a close circuit to faster shunting? There is a particular reason to move manually the sail?
Hello, take a look at kzread.info/dash/bejne/epemmNJvdZvHn7Q.html
We just like the traditional way. For us it works perfectly fine, very easy, reliable and fail safe. It's also a special sensation you won't find on many boats. I guess it's a mixture of a keep it simple attitude and preferences for the traditional setup. Kind of like people with old gaff rigged boats or some tall ships. Interestingly, a shunting system wouldn't make the boat "better" in any way. Just more complex. Western people seem to think that a shunting system is a must have on a proa but it really isnt. We learned proa sailing from the locals on the marshall islands. Those guys don't even use front and back stays on the small canoes. Check out our dedicated video about that topic on the Proasis channel!
@@proasisproject I like your project, but is definitely a "western" one. It is full of innovation not present in traditional proas, so question was legitimate. It could be better just share info and not lessons, avoiding making bold assumptions like the creator of Harryproa did, ruining his reputation.
@@jackkorovev5217yeah we certainly adapted the concept in some ways to suit the different conditions we have on the baltic. Quite different from the lagoons of Micronesia. And after all it's a prototype with some experimental stuff we tried for the finished design for the marshall islands. Quite often the experiments failed and we eventually ended up using the traditional solution. The rigging for example is almost 100% traditional. We try to show proasis sailing in different conditions as much as possible so people can make up their own minds. Also the call is open for everyone to join sailing. We always wanted a canoe that we enjoy sailing, especially singlehanded. Proasis is by no means perfect but we enjoy the adventure a lot! Can't wait for spring to get back on the water.
@@proasisproject I think your project could be a game changer. It is VERY interesting. Please keep pushing, experimenting, having fun and trying to build good quality information about this. Stay humble, tho! With westerners and, most important, with islanders!
Nice can we have a look how you sleep inside.
Perhaps. But that's not my boat. I just sailed along. You have to ask Henrik from www.proas.is.
Sure, will prepare a room tour video once we get back on the water!
@@proasisproject Thanks it looks like a real chill ride. Im really thinking of building something one day. Ive been interested in proas and wharrum cats. Watching from NZ.
Love your boat! wish there were plans availuable.
Hello, is not my boat. But take a look at www.proas.is
Proasis was the prototype for a transport and fishing vessel for the marshall islands. Because of that we have no plans available but there will be a detailed step by step construction manual published soon. Much better than a plan.
Wow what a great video! Thank you so much for filming and editing. That was a nice sailing adventure 😊
Why not call it Kiribati instead of Gilbert Islands?
Hello, because I and everyone else knews it under this name and it is also mentioned in the literature which, of course, is older. But one never stops learning. As long as it sails as always. Regards.
@fjordproa6510 Fair enough. The country only gained independence in 1979. Nice Proa, by the way.
Imagine trying to do that shunting business single handed in anything approaching a blow
We sail proasis single or short handed most of the time. Three years in now, have seen all types of condition, sun, rain, storm, ice , night waves etc. The traditional shunting is easy, reliable, simple and safe. A shunting system wouldnt make the boat any better, just more complex. Check out our video about shunting: kzread.info/dash/bejne/epemmNJvdZvHn7Q.htmlsi=08oubXHav0bS9g3o
I love this channel! Keep up this inspiring work!
Thank you! I'm trying.
That looks like a very well built boat that could make remarkable passages and the complete dead stop of the shunt looks like you could handle a pretty nasty sea state so you can stand off shunting back and forth if you get somewhere and conditions aren’t right for going in. So to me, if I was clever enough to get this far along, I’d be working on some kind of shunting system where you can sit or stand right in the center of the boat and have lines rigged to shunt in horrible swell and waves, you might need a track that the tack rides on and all circular sheeting type of running rigging, it would have to be pretty clever but it looks like you could do it. Beautiful boat, it looks like you become one with the sea in it, like it feels good, all the best to you!
Thanks! Check out the Proasis KZread channel. We have a video explaining exactly why don't have a shunting system. Cheers!
Happy new year!
Thank you, you too and health to all
I reckon,,,,but what would i know,,,that on the centerline of the sail,from the tack to the middle of the leech,,that should be somewhat of a naca foil shape,,,the spars also need some shape somewhat resembling the same shape maybe...that means you would have a somewhat radial design sail,,,the micronesians wove quite a fullness into their sails from the tack to about 40ish percent up the centerline of the sail...they also cut large cutouts in the leech...encourages the vortex,i hear...cool boat..nice vids,,,,i think theres a lot of power to be gained with sailshaping,,,
Hello, I made my sail from a cheap pvc foil from the hardware store. So it doesn't have a profiel. The front spar is a surf mast therefore straight. I glued the lower spar with curves but cut out the sail to match. A sail profiel is therefore only created by the fact that the spars bend a bit and the foil is somewhat stretchy. I have my own explanation of the cutout in the leech. Practically every proa builder I know realizes that his boat wants to go into the wind at the beginning. So the sail pressure point also has to move forward. The easiest way to do this is to cut something out of the trailing edge. Until it fits. I could imagine that it was the same with the Polynesians and then gradually became the norm. And if you don't use sail battens, the cutout is also good.
Bravo Reto!
I think Reto could consider a stiffer mast, and boom, to match the more powerful rig! BTW its great to see that he is still sailing and developing Lili after all these years. Well done you Baltic Proa guys for meeting up each year and thanks @Fjordproa for a whole series of great videos!
Hello, thank you. Reto is already working on the stiffer mast and boom. It was very helpful to get the individual people together. You get to know each other better and can exchange experiences. Henrik von www.Proas.is wants to organize a meeting next year.
I'd like to build something like this. How long is your boat and what would you say is the shortest Proa that you can make that still sails well?
Hello my Proa is 6 meter long. Reto's is a P5 of 5 meter, sails really verry well and can even be transported on the car roof. Free plans at www.karschulin.de
@@fjordproa6510 Thank you but I clicked on the link and can't read it. The link also didn't have a link that I could click on. I'm in the USA. A P5 sounds like it would be the right size for me. I weigh 230 pounds.
@@robertlaird6746 You could try the email link at the bottom of Othmar's Projekte page. I got a Delftship file from him of P5 quite a few years ago and I have some JPGs of the drawings. He's a friendly guy. Another essential reference is Garry Dierking's book 'Building outrigger sailing canoes'. It is a goldmine of information for small proa dreamers, builders and sailors. It contains plans for 3 canoes, one of which is a dedicated shunter, another can be built as a shunter plus a good choice of shunting rigs, all worked out from his experience. Get to it!
@@robertlaird6746 That's right, I couldn't open it no more either. But I found this here, hope that's how it workes for you. multihull.de/proa/p5/p5over.gif multihull.de/proa/p5/p5luv.gif multihull.de/proa/p5/p5lee.gif multihull.de/proa/p5/p5ausleger.gif multihull.de/proa/p5/p5gurte.gif
@@fjordproa6510 Thanks. Is this your boat design?
Somewhat complicated.
What is complicated?
Fascinating design.
Hello you find information on www.Proas.is
Very efficient & clean, What make & size of track are you using for the tack of the yard?
Thanks, I wanted it to build it as simple as possible, I use a rail from Harken with a width of 22mm.
Thanks for that, our proa is a bit bigger so we are probably going to run with 26mm Ronstan gear. @@fjordproa6510
Pretty cool tho
Similar to Marshall Islands canoe or walap.
Ugh. I envy you so much, guys!
Hi, what did you use to make the sail? I am hoping to build my own proa based on the P5 that Reto sails.
Hello, I think the P5 is a very good design. I made my sail from PVC fabrictarp from the hardware store. First you have to find out which sail fits to your boat. You can experiment with the cheap foil sail. The sail I've had for the last 3 years is just starting to unravel, and to build such a sail takes only 1-2 hours. I'm going to make a video on the subject this winter anyway. Have fun building.
Thanks for that. I am looking forward to seeing how you made your sail. @@fjordproa6510