Hey, I'm Forrest. I'm helping people become who they want to be.
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so sweet > son & father !
Full on fawn response episode please!
Beautifully done ! Now, I have another tool to utilize contemplating what you are for versus what you are against. I have been utilizingThich Nhat Hanh's recommendation to hold anger like a baby, which has helped me many times to console myself when I'm alone . When I am on the receiving end of anger to try to focus on my breathing or eye blinking to try to remain present .
Me growing up fawning response, Stockholm syndrome. good kid, never gets in trouble. Having ptsd, cptsd, extreme fight or flight, ocd adhd, blackout fighter and stress seizures from being raised by my parents. Dad beat the hell outta my mom. Did the same to me and caused bodily damage. I ended up in foster care off and on since about 3 years old. Been in therapy since I was about 8 years old. I learned real quick how not to piss off my dad. Now I'm working on how I should be navigating in my adult relationships. Thank you for this video. It means alot. 💜💕🦋🔥👑🔥🦋💕💜
I was taught to think “brace yourself”. I’m trying to learn to replace that thought with “grace yourself”.
Would a dry throat be a flight response, freeze response? It's so difficult to stop when it happens.
Very interesting and helpful information to know.
Wow someone finally said EXACTLY what I go through
Forest 🌳 you look 👀 like your dad.
Hey Forest and like son and dad here.
So grateful that both of you exist and that I watched this podcast today! This helped me feel a little lift in extrinsic and intrinsic motivation that I was very much needing. I love the pursuit orientation and prey orientation theory/concept and I have some ideas about practicing "liking" and I hope that Rick writes a book about it soon! ;) Thank you!
its 5am and i read this as dislocation. i’m gonna go to bed and come back to this tomorrow, i think.
I ruminate about ruminating, that what if i keep on thinking forever that would be bad ah its an endless loop at this point
Why the vocal fry in an educated grown woman....it makes her hard to listen to.
Ye gads minute 13 Needing to hear this for 3 decades 🤣 Thank you! Sanity restoring
DUDE! STOP P****-******* ABOUT WHAT VAN DER KOLK SAID ABOUT THE DSM! I get it, you don't want to piss off any national institutions and have them revoke or destroy your reputation so it makes sense that you're licking their *****. Van Der Kolk DOES NOT SHARE YOUR STATUS QUO VIEW THOUGH! If he did share your vanilla view, then how the hell could it be considered "scathing?" It's his opinion, he's watched it evolve, and so if anyone has any authority to critique it, it is him. If you're worried about backlash, you could/would/will pawn the blame on to him, "he was our guest," "never again," "we still support you big pharma, looking forward to the DSM X," etc. BUUUUUT since you won't honor what he said, I'll put what stood out to me the most here: 1) it is unscientific, has no data to back up anything including the diagnosis of a client. 2) it categorizes behaviors and which medications to prescribe. Used by clinicians solely in partnership with big pharma. ***Now for the personal stuff: I have to assume that based on your credentials and lineage that you've been extremely privileged but not to having the DSM be used on you. Although the D is for diagnostic, Van Der Kolk believes it doesn't take a whole person's life into account so it shouldn't be used, but that hasn't stopped clinicians from doing so at an initial evaluation. Which they generalize "what is troubling" me with easy answer executive functioning skills (sounds like you need to plan things better, then you wouldn't be so stressed; neglectful abusive childhood, it wasn't that everyone was crazy but that they hated me and I was in the way) and they would send on my way never to see them again. Which I started seeking mental health counseling in 2011 and always DSM-ed. Not once. Never a single time have I ever had a psychiatric evaluation done. Being DSM-ed is demeaning because clinicians textbook treat symptoms of they think are just stubborn client not trying hard enough, more DBT/CBT; my most recent clinician hasn't pulled out that tome, which is probably why she hasn't dismissed me due to my intellect and awareness of my issues. Thirteen years to find this clinician after having to wade through "I can't help you," when I just wanted to tell stories about my childhood to see if they were messed up or not... Which is so effed up to tell someone that can't hold down a job for more than a month, never learned to drive, has no concept of future goals that others have in their generation (owning a house, starting a family, going on vacations, etc); you, someone who has a college education, a degree which means you graduated, are here like clock work but can't help me because... you... don't want to want to it would seem. Which does not make sense BUUUUUT it's obvious that they hoped I was stupid enough to understand that they were WAAAAY better than me, or well off, or who cares? Well I do, because all-or-nothing, one-size-fits-all, you're-either-born-a-winner-or-a-loser style of medical care is the laziest and deadliest form of professional neglect that in most cases is malpractice. The DSM is NOT client focused or based on us, it was made by clinicians,for clinicians and now used by big pharma to noose clinicians in this capitalist country. It's the easy way out for medical professionals and like that removed paragraph after the first iteration said, can't reliably be used for diagnostic or insurance purposes. Which BTW DSM clinicians usually see people that have histories of trauma as drug seekers and usually deny all forms of medications; life threatened? Well how do we know you didn't cause the fatal car crash for a fix?
Holy crap.. i haven't even watched this yet but just seeing this recommended is amazing. Had a chat with my therapist last week and came to a realisation that i genuinely can't articulate what my needs are, and couldn't remember the last time i really asked myself about this
Medicare does cover mental health. Have you checked in your area?
Tjis is what fawning is. As the 10th kid of 11, i tried not to cause any problems. Cause the 3 above me were acting out.😮😢😅
Beautiful really had to take this one slow to absorb and relate to who what why influences my messy village , The statement that reallystood out at the beginning of the podcast was "It's really hard to take action on your own behalf if we don't feel we are worth the results". 🙏🏽
yeah, i get all that, but what about concrete social circumstances that put you into these kind of behaviours? because i listened to you guys talking on how hard it is to get mental healthcare before. want us all to win the lottery in order to find redemption, i guess?! because you guys acknowledge the hardships and empathize, all fine and dandy, but damaged people are not the ones who can afford mental healthcare, because of the psycho-social problematics we are confronted with. So: your channel basically only helps to feed your own ego issues of gainig virtue?! ever considered that possibilty? Will you people help me out for instance, when i could have become somebody with a phd, but instead am on disability now, the state acknowledging the repeated ongoing traumatic experiences?! and being ousted because of this not being able to function anymore, but needing healthcare to to so, but not getting it, because you do not have a social life anymore and are no 'therapeutic material'?! I find you guys being so disconnected with real life problems, get a grip, instead of feeling sorry about it!
They‘re providing for free what you would get in Therapy. It doesn’t completely replace it, don‘t get me wrong, but what are they supposed to do about something only politicians can change?
This is just so great! I’m working on processing anger from my childhood with my therapist, and this video has been incredibly insightful! Thank you to you both!
Yes, they can help it. They've spent their entire Boomer lives proving that they can help it and also expecting us, their now adult-children, to help it. At the very least, they can hear themselves and apologize after saying something that obviously makes no sense and even argues with what they just got done saying a minute or two before. Instead, they dig their heals in, make up outlandish stories that obviously have no basis in reality at all, then use those stories as justifications for entire narratives that put "their side" above everyone else's, and "the other" has no value in their eyes at all, and everyone had better "agree" with them, "or else..." So that's the first thing. The second is that these are the very same people who've abandoned their own children, sometimes multiple times (each time, eventually coming back "because the police might get involved if we don't" or "the family tree might not approve of this abandonment" or whatever). The Boomers weren't abandoned at all - they collected en masse and informed their parents that they weren't playing their game anymore; if anyone did the abandoning, of both parents and children, it's been the Boomers. They have no right to fear being abandoned - and yes, they are pushing everyone else away. My parents have more than pushed me away. They've made it very clear that I can't have a single, reasonable, level-headed, normal, simple, non-nuanced conversation with them, because they'll just turn it into a one-sided screaming match where I'm being villainized without even being able to finish a single sentence (so they had no idea what I was going to say, nor really even who I am as a person anyway). Seriously, there's no excuse for what they're doing. They're spoiled to the hilt Boomers (I speak here of the white Boomers, no one else) who never had a consequence in their lives, unless it was for actually going out and doing the right thing, like protesting against US involvement in the Vietnam War, or in favor of Black Rights. But when it came to really hurting others, which yes, they did do? Nope, no consequences at all, or at the very most, tiny slaps on the wrist that got buried and no one ever spoke of again. They're so used to that, and to everything that Capitalism gave them, including tons of power over everyone else, that they can't handle even the smallest disagreement on a subject that they brought up in the conversation and were only given a nice, fair, balanced, and proactive-listening-based response to. They're beyond snowflakedness. They're living in emotional diapers, yes, but they can help it, they know better than this, and they're just not being punished enough to be incentivized to be better human beings. How sad, really. They went from changing the world to the world ruining them from the inside out. May this never happen to the younger generations. Anyway, I need help extricating them from my life. I can't survive with them in it.
As an adult-child victim caught in this Boomer-laid trap, my question is this: how do I get a job when my parents hamstrung me to the point where I couldn't finish my education and there's no money for that now, and employers aren't interested in someone with my particular "qualifications"? I don't just mean some stupid click-work that pays 1 cent a month or something stupid. I mean something that brings in a minimum of $2,000 per month, because the overall bills I have to pay require that. Right now, Boomer Mommy and Daddy are the tab, I desperately want off of it, I keep applying for jobs but no one wants to hire me except for MLMs (ugh, don't get me started) and stupid contract "employers" who don't pay enough or have enough work or whatever. What the H am I supposed to do so I can be independent, pay my parents back, and have them out of my life for good? At the end of the day, that's what I really need. To just not have them involved in my life at all anymore. Everything they touch turns to hell-fire and burns my life up, and no, they don't care about that at all - not when the peddle hits the metal. They're only keeping me alive now so they can try to use me later to take care of them and a fully disabled sibling. It's basically all emotional blackmail/enslavement/etc. Help?
I love Forrest’s pacing Repeating and moving so logically with such a big heart it seems Forrest doesn’t take his heart or his brillance for granted Very responsible care Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for this Episode! I would love to learn about surrendering to the unavoidable ❤
Hey @Forrest I've generally thought I'm a "freezer" but listening to this episode I'm leaning more to a "flighter" (flyer). You mentioned on the episode something about freeze being a primitive flight response, if I heard that correctly. My question is: what is the difference between flight and freeze response? And, probably the more important question, are there substantially different ways to address each?
To put it simple: flying is getting out of the situation, freezing is staying but uningagingly
I think for freezing situations the answer is to get to the point of actually deciding what to do vs in flying situations it‘s more to reflect if flying is necessary or just comforting. You can be both in different situations, all of us have all 4 modes programmed theoretically
Here's the situation. I'm at home and have nothing scheduled. I feel like or theoretically want to say do a productive task like clean my place. For whatever reason, I'm not able to make myself do it, either coming up with excuses or doing behaviours like phone scrolling, watch TV etc. etc. Is this flight or freeze?
I have been binging your videos since I recently discovered your channel. I have to say I really love your conversations and they help me a lot.
Excellent. Thanks
Personal experience.....don't go out and get a major psychological test for $1500 when you have BPD/CPTSD or everything overlaps... I came back with almost every disorder (including SID Schizo) and it all boiled down to ADHD & CPTSD. Even ASD was ruled out, even though I have a full baseline for it - apparently caused from CPTSD. The absolute worst part may make you think you are autistic.
Great dad and son, love this show. Both my parents were young narcissists with addictions who neglected and abandoned their children and ruined the siblings relationships with triangulation and gaslighting. I'm exploited to this day and finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel.
If need be, go no contact asap.
Such great info. Forrest, your intelligence just seeps out!
This is so helpful. Thanks for posting
I have PTSD and my stress is really eating me up inside😞
This is a beautiful discussion. I am 62 and a healthy, retired school teacher. I continue to SERVE., regularly at my local food bank which truly values the role of volunteers. They respect our experience and ask our opinions about how to make the organization better. I love it! I'm creative , planning our next home in the country. Daily gratitude practice and I regularly refer to Pemas book, Start where you Are.. Thank you both for your respect, love for each other and deep , reflective conversation.
What she says is so true . Even the title of the book resonated so much with me - " adult children of EMOTIONALLY IMMATURE PARENTS " I am 36 yrs and I still suffer the impact of my parents emotionally immature behaviours .i still long for that love and emotional connection with people . I now realise , i have never growm older and i m still a child looking for solid human relationships
Thank you for this! I don't know how many times i've rewatched the "Facing the fear of our authentic self being seen" part. Really hit home for me!
Hi! I can't find the video on the faun response. Can anyone help? I must be blind or something haha.
Hey, not blind, we did an episode on self-abandonment that felt thematically similar enough to me that I counted it 😅😂 We've gotten enough requests for a full fawn response/people pleasing episode that we'll likely do it in the near future.
@@ForrestHanson Thank you, Forrest! A full episode would be so fantastic. I'll go and watch that one now though! I'm very grateful for your channel, I only recently found it this past week and it has been helping open me up to the possibility of a future where I have a healthier mind. I actually procrastinate house chores a lot because I need my mind to be stimulated while doing something menial, so listening to these has helped in more ways than one. Dishes are getting done!! These subjects are fantastic and I really love the long-form episodes, I feel like I can settle more into the conversation knowing that it will go on for a little while. I wish I could have my own Elizabeth here in England, I feel like she's the therapist I need for my C-PTSD but don't have access to due to distance. :'D
@@ForrestHanson I'm interested in that too. I can only fawn around my mother and unable to defend myself.
@@jl3268 I feel that... from the age of 6-7 I've had to fawn around attackers to keep myself alive and untouched. I had to do the same with my parents to avoid the same thing. I'm wondering what another way of responding would even feel like.
LOVE THIS SO MUCH! Please do an episode specifically on fawn! 🙏✨
The insight about comfort vs. safety is a good one. It’s especially common nowadays to appeal to safety when really it’s about comfort. I’ve tried to explain this to a therapist before and it just comes off as “I’m selfish.” Because honestly, it oftentimes is selfish. But this explains it a bit better.
Wow. I’ve been binging your content for weeks now, so happy to have found you, but as a half-Russian and half-African who has only recently started recovering from the collective guilt and grief and overcoming the helplessness which I hope you can imagine ordinary citizens feel in Russia as well, while also having to navigate the hate fuelled by western propaganda and the undeserved scapegoating based on the mere nationality that doesn’t define us as human beings, I can’t continue listening to this episode or maybe at all for that matter, because of how much judgment you place in the first minutes without even mentioning the other side of the coin, and while I came to keep healing, I got re-traumatised. Not to mention the hypocrisy, while the US is if not starting then meddling with every existing political conflict on the planet, including the aforementioned, preventing it from ending and dragging it forever, accelerating hate and trauma in the world. I’m flabbergasted that you guys decided to spread the judgment on, given your profound understanding of trauma. How do Germans feel being in Europe? How do you guys feel after using the atomic bombs on Japan? I don’t think that it is ok to make people who couldn’t do anything to prevent a conflict beyond their control suffocate in toxic shame, while having no accountability or remorse for one’s own part. I wasn’t realising that the compassion you were talking about was selective. I really hope you can see this in the aftermath, cause if not, it’s a shame. What was that Oath again all the doctors and the mental health professionals by extension are sworn by? Hypocritical? Or Hippocratic?
Wow, great job. I really appreciate how you actually listen to the people you are interviewing.
Loved the topic! I watched it twice. The second time just to observe the 2 of you interacting with each other. Love it!
I cried watching this. Just turned 50 undiagnosed still. Went into a huge rejection spiral around my birthday and isolated for the whole month...
this is one of the best explanations ive heard. it shouldn't be so hard! I appreciate you doing it well and compassionately
Parents may choose to have A Child, but they don’t get to choose that particular child.
There is NO cure for trauma bc it is etched in your brain. However, as you grow older, it becomes easier to bear.
Thanks
Mr Levine is a beautiful soul.
Forrest! I’m a long time listener to your podcast and first time commenter. I just wanted to say that you and your dad make such an amazing team, and I have benefitted in so many ways from your content. It is brilliant, helpful and healing in its own right and it’s been an incredible resource to me in my own healing journey. I also really rate the work of Lindsay Gibson and I am fairly well versed in her writing but this is one of the best interviews I’ve seen with her. Super clear, super concise and helpful insights. Thank you! I just felt moved to share my appreciation