I make unscripted videos about video games. Action games are my jam. I mainly focus on gameplay, and usually get pretty long-winded covering all the little intricacies of how a game works and what makes it awesome. But I also do videos breaking down game stories in similarly exhaustive detail. I also like to talk about random interesting topics that pertain to games as a whole. And sometime I just like to highlight cool games that are worth checking out. I also stream as a fun way to hang out with my audience. If that all sounds cool to you, and you like the laid-back feel of just friends talking games, you've come to the right place.
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Replaying levels I get better at definitely is a fun thing I like to do in sonic games, but unfortunately that doesn’t make every game fun for me. I definitely agree that hate went overboard, but I also think people who disliked it, especially Sonic content creators, felt the need to make it clear that this is not what we wanted when hearing sega reps and some reviewers talk about it like it was exactly what we wanted
Looks like you've expended most your hater energy on Sonic Lost World, but I get what you mean with Forces not being the end of the world. Shame it was such a lame game to pair with Sonic Mania, tho, but it really goes to show the diminishing returns of Sonic Team sticking to an established gameplay format and not thinking up much past that.
For me, I hate Forces so much because being boring is the worst thing a game can be. That's why Lost World and Forces are my least favorite 3D games. They have absolutely no staying power. I've gone back to 06 and Secret Rings, I regularly play Black Knight. I play my favorite levels in Shadow all the time. Every other 3D Sonic game I've gone back to time and time again. Forces is the only 3D game I've had absolutely no urge to go back to since its release. It was supposed to be the follow up to Generations gameplay wise, it was supposed to be a huge story with high stakes. Instead, we got nothing. Even the games I'm not to hot on gameplay wise give me something else to latch on to, like the level themes or the story. Forces fails in both of those regards too. That's at least my reason for hating Forces so much. I have a feeling a lot of other people feel the same way.
I think it was also that there were 5 years where forces was the only sonic game.
With the amount of these "This Sonic game was always good" videos you're pumping out, I'm actually convinced you think that Sonic 1 GBA port was "always good"
I think to understand why so many people despise Sonic Forces, there's a little bit of hindsight and perspective that must be mentioned, Sonic Forces and Sonic Mania we're announced in 2016, that means, in what we currently call, the Meta Era, where Sonic was probably in one of it's lowest point, where he was the butt of the Joke for many people, critics, players and alike, with the last bigger games being released being Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom Ryse of Lyric. It was an awful time to be a Sonic Fan, were if you said you liked sonic, would probably be ridiculed by everyone, that you should be shameful for liking such an awful series. And even the people inside Sega though the same, making fun of Sonic Itselft with the mindset that if you make fun of itselft, people will laught with you instead of laughing *at* you, and to many fans, this was soul crushing, but alas, let's get into SWSX 2016 and the time between Forces Release. At 2016 we finally saw what the next sonic games were gonna be, being Mania created by Cristhian Whithead and its Team, and Project 2017 (later know as Forces), Mania was exactly what many classic Sonic fans wanted, a return to the formula of the Genesis game that many of them liked and missed Dearly, but the same by the Announcement of Sonic Project 2017 could also be said for modern fans, we had a bombastic trailer that tried to be more dark and serious, like what many people we're hoping for, ditching the meta humor and light hearted tone of newer tittles, and there was a lot of excitement drummed up by that trailer, specially with the start saying "from the creators of Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations", at the time we didn't know there only some of them that worked on Forces, we would just know that much later, so to many, it was saying like the same people we're working on this game, after many years, and people loving Sonic Generations and thinking it would be just as good as that game. Then they're was the first gameplay trailer and the E3 trailer, the gameplay trailer was really short, being only 30 seconds, so most people hadn't enough to say if the game was good or bad, neither we knew the length of the stage, so it was really hard for many to say if the game was good or bad, but many we're hoping this game would be good, that would be the end of that cycle, of that era, the Meta one, because most people couldn't take it anymore, it was a very toxic moment to be a fan of this series, the first trailer promised quite a lot, then we had this preview of gameplay, then we had the E3 trailer, showing that all of previous sonic enemies or rivals would be back, including Metal Sonic, Chaos, Zavok, Shadow and this new one that we later would know as Infinite, that made a lot of people believe we would fight them in the new game, just to later discover when the game comes out that we fight just three of them and the other two are just in for cutscene. Basically, a lot of hype was drummed up by the marketing of this game, promising quite a lot by what they've show, so many people we're really with high hopes, and how couldn't they be? It was quite a while since there was so much marketing for a Sonic game, even going on to make a Deal with Hooters to promote this game (a weird choice, but it show how much they we're betting on this game at least for fans) And then, the game released, and basically, it was just more of the same, at lot of the promisses made by trailers weren't exactly true, a lot of fans felt betrayed or lied to by the marketing, so that was a huge blow to morale and trust, but also, Sonic Forces wasn't just Mediocre, it was a boring game to many, none of the ambition showed by the trailers could be seen in the game, the story tried to be serious but didn't had the gut to go all the way, still having that meta era humor, being on a limbo *trying to please two people but ending on pleasing no one* , and that's something that could be said for a lot of Sonic Forces, it tried to please everyone, Classic Sonic Fans, Modern Sonic Fans, people fan of the Meta era, people fan of the Dark Era, being in this weird middle ground were nothing was good for any of the people and leaving to much disappointment. Sonic controlled much worse than in Sonic Generations and Colors, the levels we're really short, and a lot of the levels, people didn't even had control of the character, there was a lot of automation in this game, even of parts that weren't necessary, and the same applied to the OC stages, the levels we're already short, and the automation on those parts made the parts that you actually play the game much shorter. I think that something it was forgotten to metion And then there's Classic Sonic, which was probably the worst part of the game, look, I know that are mods and stuff to improve the game, but the reality is that not everyone has a PC or played the game on a PC, so many people will only play the vanilla game as it is, and Classic Sonic on Sonic Forces was just awful, he was very unresponsive to commands, the drop dash made him unable to do anything for quite a while, he felt like a tank, we're if there was a point that a terrain ended and there was another one close, instead of flying and then dropping because of momentum, he would instantly drop like he weighed 2 tons, while I agree that Sonic Doesn't need to have momentum or the same physics as the genesis game, on Forces he was just bad, he just felt awful in that game. And basically, Sonic Forces ended up just validating more people dunking on Sonic, as much as Sonic Mania did something to improve sonic reputation, Sonic Forces ended making people reassure that Sonic was a joke, that it should never been taken seriously, and that any good game in this series was the exception, that only the 2D games we're good. And I think that's the reason why most people dislike Forces, is not because of the game itselft, but also what It represents, and at the time, it represents that we should just accept that Sonic we're never going to be ambitious again, the he would still be the laughing stock of the gaming community, that he'll only launch mediocre games with no ambition or vision from now one, and that was the legacy that Forces leaved to most people, to the point of a lot of people abandoning this franchise or wanting to abandon. It was just later with the success of the Sonic Movie and Sonic Frontiers that we finally saw some changes, that there was still ambition, passion and some vision to what to do with this series, with finally ending to be the Joke for most people, until those two pieces of media came out, being a sonic fan felt hopeless, like clinging to something that was long gone, and people we're very vocal about both Sonic Forces and the first design of the Sonic Movie because they cared about this franchise, as much as the trainwreck that it is, people still wanted that this underdog would get up and fight, prove its worth, that it still had more to give than simple mediocrity. That's why I see many people were vocal about forces, not because it was really the worst Sonic Game ever made, but because that's not what people wanted, and we wanted to make that very clear for Sonic Team and Sega, and at the end of the day, that worked.
Ah yes the infamous "Just play Mania" game. I'd actually opine the timeline between Lost World and this game was much more awkward and disconcerting.
Forces better than the storybook games, plural? Watch that Black Knight badmouthing 💀 Black Knight is the closest we'll get to a DMC-styled Sonic game and it's somehow worse than Forces.
I just have two things to say: 1. Sonic forces is my second most hated game in the entire franchise behind lost world, and the only reason I think it's better is because of the music 2. The biggest problem with forces was the slew of missed potential: were the title like "forces", I myself was expecting them to bring back multiple playable characters (and I am referring to characters like tales, knuckles, and Amy: I did not care one Whit for the Avatar character or classic Sonic), a more interesting and fleshed out story, and better gameplay
Easy to see the hate for this game. While the storybook games, LW, Boom, etc. failed doing something new, this game failed doing what had been good so far, the classic Sonic and the boost gameplay. Also, it trying to be a tie-in with Mania is like adding insult to injury.
Pariah doesn't seem to consider Forces is what we got after the BOOM disaster, making the franchise look without potential... when Forces was booming with potential.
My bet is the Avatar was inspired by Dragon Ball Xenoverse actually
I think all the hate this game got was from Gen Z. We grew up on Unleashed and Generations and wanted a return to form. The story also looked like it was going to be darker. But it was all just marketing... I was still a kid in 2017. I didn't question the low price or the trailers. I didn't know what was going on behind the scenes. Ever since Forces, I have become well-read in Sonic staff. I know exactly who made my favorite Sonic games, who is making them now, and why Sonic is the way it is today.
Now eagerly waiting for "THE STORY OF SONIC FORCES"
Before gameplay reveals: Perfect. After gameplay reveals: (some Caretaker song.)
Hot take: Sonic Forces visually looks beautiful. The presentation is clean and pleasing to look at. Levels like: Sunset Heights, Metropolitan Highway and Mortar Canyon look really good. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say that Sonic Forces looks better than Sonic Frontiers. (Forces is not a big deal compared to others like Sonic Colors tho)
I agree that the games graphics look stunning, but the artstyle on the other hand is just...boring and bland. Sonic himself got his worst modern redesign due to the lighter blue (in my opinion). Most of the games stage designs are reused from previous Sonic games. Sure, those stages look better than ever but the design still bores most players due to how often we have seen many of those locations. And the new stages are pretty boring to look at. The enemy design is also extremely boring & they rarely do interesting stuff with the camera. For example: While boosting in 3D the camera is a bit to zoomed out in comparison to Sonic Unleashed & Generations which results in Forces feeling way slower.
The "disappointment" to this game is weird. People make so many assumptions on what a game could and should be and end up getting angry when it doesn't meet those expectations.
Yeah. How dare people expect a game with similar quality to Generations & Colours?! It's not like they were marketing the game with "from the team who brought you Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations", right?🤦♂
Slopic Slopses. Extremely hot take
I think for like a lot of fans, it just felt a culmination of all the problems of the previous seven years leading up to force's release. It is less about whats in the game itself, but rather what it represents. At least that's what I thought it seemed as for people. The game itself, its not like as nearly as bad as the other Sonic Games that people consider bad. It's fairly polished, and there are no real bugs that plague it. It was kinda fucked over by its circumstance. Like it was the first accessible mainline Sonic game since like Generations, and it was released right as Mania was. It was just too little in an era that saw the biggest drought in the franchises' history. And that also hurt Forces in the long run, it was the only thing that we really had to chew on for five years. If Forces was just released today, it'd not receive nearly as much attention. It'd probably just be seen as a mediocre detour, then mostly forgotten about like a lot of the 2000's Sonic Spin-offs.
The worst thing about Sonic Forces is that everyone wants to tell you why its the worst thing.
RetroArch is great but I've personally had a much better experience with OpenEmu. There's less menu-diving and more plug-and-play action. Not sure what it's like on Windows, but on Mac it looks beautiful
Maybe it's because I bouught this game for 10 dollars in 2022 but yeah I really do feel the same way. It's an alright game, I enjoy it. And I actually found the collectibles in each level to be really fun to get
24:54 This game took so much time to make for a myriad of factors, some outside of Sonic Team's control. After shipping Lost World, Sonic Team began development of the next iteration of the Hedgehog Engine, to be used in next generation hardware. The development of HE2 took around 4 years to complete, leaving a little over a year for ST to make Forces. They had the planning all complete, but I assume they were expecting Sega to give them time to make the game after wrapping up HE2, which didn't happen because Sega wanted to keep the momentum of Mania's release and it the Switch's first year in the market. It is important to know ST doesn't make only Sonic games, they also develop technology to be used in other Sega games. It is known that Puyo Puyo and Sakura Wars also use HE, and it is believed ST aided in the development of some Yazuka/Like a Dragon games. Sonic Team is more of a label, internally they had different names, like Sega AM8 and Sega GE1. Many people come and go from Sonic Team since the beginning. Another thing that happened that impacted in the development of Forces was the disaster that was Sonic Boom. It suck you're not making a video about Boom because I believe the damage done by Boom RoL was far greater than '06. Why? Because at very least, '06 sold well and made a profit, which allowed Sonic to keep going and eventually make good games. Boom RoL sold so poorly and was so poorly receive it instantly damaged the entire brand of Sonic Boom, which affected the TV show and merchandise sales. Boom was Sega of America's idea, because they wanted their own spin on Sonic. The japanese branch didn't anything to do with it, but they invested a lot of money into it thinking the merchandise would give a good return. Lol no. Sega lost so much money with Boom they made many aggressive downsizing on Sonic Team and investments in the Sonic IP at this game. Many talented devs left to work at Nintendo, and the budget of Sonic was reduced, which is why Forces was a 40 USD game at launch. The Sonic IP was simply not valuable to Sega in the 2010's, especially after Boom. And Mania, despite being an amazing game and very well receive, didn't meet sale's expectations - taking 8 months to reach 1 million sales. Not great for a 20 dollar game that was "the best Sonic game ever". There even was internal talks about replacing Sonic for Persona's Joker as Sega's mascot. Everything only changed because of the positive reception of the first Hollywood movie, and later Frontiers. Forces was a victim of Boom's failure and Sega's upper management.
curious if you will ever do a video on the sonic comics? especially with your interest in sonic stories it would be an interesting watch. IDW is being translated and published in japanese, so it seems canon for them too now. i know youre not super into american sonic but archie is where sega originally recognized ian flynn and many fans say its his best work. especially considering forces story arguably takes a lot of archie/satam themes but worse. thanks again pariah
23:49 My man ruthlessly dissing Classic Tails' character
As somebody that likes Forces, I really enjoyed this video quite a bit. I think with Classic Sonic in particular you did a good job highlighting that there is fun to be had with that style in this game. Unfortunately even though I did go out of my way to 100% the game I still found myself disliking Classic Sonic overall, if only because I would have rather had the resources spent on that style put elsewhere. That said the Avatar was actually my favorite of the gameplay styles so take my opinion with a grain of salt xD Even though it's not likely to happen, I'd love to see the Avatar come back some day in a future game. It joins the Chao Garden in my list of things I want to see again.
Who could forget the mediocre, terrible, horrible, ugly, poorly written, disingenuously marketed game from 2017. Which ignored fan-favourite characters and poorly represented those that it used, had lame DLC, followed up after a fan-favourite 2011 installment after a 6 year time gap, only to end up killing the franchise... Marvel Vs. Capcom Infinite.
I think it's a little in poor faith to say everyone who worked on this game isn't proud of the work they did. Aside from Ohtahni there are probably tons of people that worked really hard on certain aspects, environment designers, artists, level designers, sound designers etc. It's just a shame their work went to making something that was ultimately very underwhelming.
I'd say forces represented everything people dislikes about boost games, like how 06 represented everything people disliked about the adventure formula
25:01 It's fine, the cash grab would come later in the form of the attempted Super Sonic DLC
I disagree on one thing.... This was and is a lazy cynical cash grab. I agree that sonic team cares....I'm sure they do. But honestly considering the dev time of this game, it was clearly made to have a game for the 25th anniversary and nothing more. This was a blatant cash grab by Sega. Sonic team cares, but they clearly didn't care about making this game. I don't even think they wanted to make it. I don't have I'll will towards any on (except Sega execs) but you can tell how thrown together this games was. It's such a nothing........ nothing. The equivalent of a wet fart. It's clear more energy was put into hedgehog engine 2 (which was their focus) over the game itself. Not the worst sonic game....but definitely the most nothing one since....the game gear games?
Forces is not a bad video game because it is not a video game. Video games require the user to press buttons. But, in all seriousness, people were disappointed because they THOUGHT that Sonic Team was busy working on this game for 5 years when, in fact, they spent all of that time working on the RENDERING ENGINE and then spent a very sort amount of time on the actual game.
Never closed "i hate Sonic Forces more that Sonic 06" faster
I love Sonic Forces. It's my favorite game in the franchise. I find it's gameplay to be incredibly fun and fast paced, it's graphics amazing, it's soundtrack insane, and just overall a really fun game. It really does suck, though, that this is my favorite game, because everyone thinks it's the worst thing to happen in human history. I really just hate the discussion space around this game.
Apparently, they tried to make the game on the original Hedgehog Engine, but it didn't work out, so they had to make the Hedgehog Engine 2. That took a few years, and Sega isn't exactly known for going easy on release dates. So, it looks like another rush job.
24:50 To clear up some confusion, Sonic Forces (the actual game itself) was only in development for 1 year (2016-2017). The rest of the development time was spent on the conceptual stage (2014-2016) and the development of Hedgehog Engine 2 (that started in 2013 after Sonic Lost World).
Forces feels to me a game that was trying to please as many fans as possible and in doing so pleased none: "you guys like boost games? Sure! You still think Classic is best? Have him too. All you furry fans wanna make your OCs? Go ahead. You guys want the Freedom Fighters vibe? Go for it! You want another dark, emo animal villain? By all means. Wisps? Sure!...." and so on, so on. It's like if an AI tried to make a Sonic game based entirely on Reddit posts.
I have a bit of personal attachment for Forces as it was my second 3D Sonic game. I originally grew up with Sonic 2 through the SEGA Mega Drive collection on PSP, and when I got a Xbox 360, Generations was the first 3D Sonic I played, ever. However I then kinda forgot about Sonic up until 2016 when Mania and Forces was announced, I thought they look really cool, however I was more interested in Mania as I was a lot more familiar with Classic over Modern. It wouldn't be until Boxing Day 2017 that I remembered Forces. I went to Tesco to buy L.A. Noire on Nintendo Switch as that was my main gaming console I cared about, despite having a PS4, however the guy behind the counter said they didn't have it, but I didn't want to leave with nothing, so he went in the back and made a list of the Switch games they had, and the one that caught me was Forces, I honestly forgot about the game and decided to buy it, and even thought I was around 10p short, he let me have anyway. I got home and played it the rest of the day and I genuinely really liked it, even though for many people, I played the superior game before this. I'm a lot kinder to Forces due to reading up on the development history, that is a genuine reason why this game just missed the mark for people, but I am glad I ended up enjoying my time with the game, and even 100% the game on Steam years later. It's better as a classic arcade game, a pick-up and play type title. It's nothing truly amazing, but It did make me happy and, at the end of the day, that's what matters most sometimes.
Never thought I see the day
Damn, I didn't think that a video about Forces would actually change the way I view it, but here we are. I always thought it was just Sonic Team not learning from their past mistakes again, but to think that it was likely because they had no ideas or direction for this game for roughly 3 years of development is honestly kind of sad. It almost makes me feel bad for/sympathetic towards them if you ask me.
the thing about Forces is that it's not really "bad", just mediocre to an almost malicious degree. it's the most 5/10 thing to ever exist.
I mean of cause were people pissed with Forces I think your lack of interest in the story made your oblivious about a lot of things going on here. - First of all as you said this game was in development for 4 years which is the longest a new Sonic Team Sonic game has taken ever by over double what it usually took So them than making something that still feels worse than Generations makes it appear like the Team is no longer capable of making good games. - It promised with its setting and trailers a return of 2000's era Sonic story and story telling and while its partially true so did it leave a ton of people disappointed when Sonic and Tails were still acting like in Colors and when the new edgy rival type character just disappears from the story at the start of the third act. - It also waste a lot of concepts some of which have been requested by some parts of the fan base since forever. Like can you even begin to imagine how many old school American Sonic fans have waited for a "Eggman rules the world and Sonic and his Freedom Fighters must take it back" type story to happen? And yet they wasted it. Not just with a mediocre game but also with having the perfect setup for making almost all characters playable again and only giving us Sonic, a unloved second Sonic and a random OC that is now depicted as more powerful than all non Sonic Sonic characters. - In the lead up did one of the writers in an interview say that Shadow is not just gonna be a fake but has his own reasons for siding for Eggman only for it to turn out he was just a fake - The trailer promised a return of classic villains and so people were expecting that all of them would get boss fights yet the 2 most anticipate ones Shadow and Chaos didn't and the Zavok fight is hardly a fight against Zavok given that he doesn't do anything but stand on a bee robot and gets beaten up by Sonic. - You are pretty much in the minority with your take on Classic Sonic here most people take 8bit Sonic over Forces Classic Sonic my self included he controls just horrible in Forces. And such a terrible control system right after Mania just hurts doubly so. - The reused level themes started to get annoying especially in how its always Chemical Plant and Green Hill with Green Hill's corruption not going far enough and isn't varying enough between different parts of the story to show progress in ether direction making it look like Eggman did jack all during the 6 months with Sonic in jail. - Boost Sonic games always had a bit of a stigma that its just boost to win but Forces was the first time it actually was seriously true - The 2d in the modern Sonic and Avatar stages still is just filler that is designed like the most generic 2d platformer possible rather than something that would actually fit the boost formula something that Dimps at the latest figured out in 2007 And mind you something else that you didn't take into consideration as you skipped it is that between Lost World and Forces we had Sonic Boom which for the most part was a giant brand disaster so a ton of people were hopeful that Forces would be Sonic Team fixing the mess that was Boom with there own creation (kinda similar to what Adventure 1 did after the Saturn era) only for it to be yet another miss fire. Sonic Forces might not have been the worst Sonic game ever but a game like it couldn't have released to a much worse time. Never mind that Forces with its by the developers stated "boosting like a manic to make it a easy beginner games" mindset doesn't feel like more time would have fixed most of its core issues were as other disasters like 06 often feel like Sega higher up involvement ruined it while Forces feels like the Team's own goals were the problem.
It feels odd... Not that Pariah found something of merit in Sonic Forces, acting like there was nothing of value in the game is being wholly disingenuous, even if the game was not that engaging to begin with for a lot of people, moreso the realization that "Sonic Frontiers: Sonic Was Always Good" and "The Story of Sonic Frontiers" is not that far away, and even the Shadow Generations video potentially being out in 2025...
10:25 It is so weird how you're so passionate about Sonic as a character and a game IP, but never delved into creative work because of it. As an artist (not a good one btw) who picked the pencil in the childhood and learned to draw because of the influence of Sonic and later even made his own Sonic OC and fanfics I can safely say that Sonic the hedgehog is more than just a videogame. For me, and this always been the case, Sonic, the real Sonic, is the drive to pursue creative endeavors. The spark that one need to do something. You said once Sonic was a very appealing character and that his design was a work of a genius, and I think that was a starting point for a lot of artists. I don't know how to explain this because I'm not a professional, but there's something in Sonic you cannot find in many places. Sonic is one of those once-in-a-generation creations that grows so large that it surpasses the medium it came from. I believe the original Sonic Team created something truly special, and every time some engage with Sonic they tap into that special mind-space that let you achieve great things. This is why I cannot bring myself to hate "modern" Sonic, at least the Sonic games from the 2000's, and all the weird yet fascinating things this fandom has created over the years. I think this is why hardcore Sonic fans dislike the 2010's games so much, but love Frontiers. Frontiers is a mess of game design, but unknowingly or not, the devs, in a few moments, tapped into that strange special place that made the game resonate with Sonic fans and artists. I haven't seen so much fan art and fan music inspired by a new Sonic since Black Knight in 2009! It is that spark, that inspiration to draw, to learn to compose music, to make your own game, to express yourself, that is what Sonic the Hedgehog is to me. Far more than just a character or a videogame. And some good things came out of the Forces' Avatar! A lot of people use the avatar customization as the starting point for making their own OCs. On Steam' forums there's always people making fan arts of their Forces' avatars and posting there. Many people struggle with coming up with character abilities or clothing, so the Avatar customization helps cross that starting line. On gamebanana there are mods to add more species to this game, like dragons. In fact, many of the new characters introduced in the IDW comics began as Forces' Avatars. They used the avatar as a starting point to get the initial idea for the character, then refined the design on paper.
atleast the "bad" games mentioned have some charm and redeeming qualities to them. whether it be an interesting story, interesting character interactions, unique locations, or just really good music. I feel like Forces doesn't have any of that, and the cherry on top is the game just is not fun to play.
for me, the charm of Sonic Forces is in the character creator, the soundtrack isn't bad either
@@KC.086I personally can not stand the synth. it’s extremely grating on the ears and it causes all the songs to blend together. I think Luminous Forest is the only standout, in my opinion atleast
Half of Sonic's games be unfinished, meanwhile someone makes an Emerald Coast in Mario Sunshine and Sonic fans are like "OMG IF SUNSHINE WAS GOOD LOLOL" Bruh stop half Sonic's games traumatize half the fanbase.
>acting like Mario's games overall are better than Sonic's games overall lmao
*Random fan makes 3D Sonic empty test map with busted "momentum" physics nº759384* "Wow, this is the best 3D Sonic game ever!"
17:52 😐Are you serious?
I think another factor to why Forces gets this hyperbolic PTSD reaction is that it was arguably the accumulation of alot of problems people had in with the 2010's decade of Sonic, combined with how it was hard to be a Sonic fan in peace at the time. It made alot of fans, especially those of the 2000's games, become really vocal about how Sonic was being mistreated and thus becoming more appreciative of the 2000's era games for what they tried to accomplish.
TelekinesticMan made a recent good video on how 3D Sonic level/game design had fallen into a lot of repeptive traps over the years like Homing Attack chains, very automated sections, etc. Feel like Forces was the culmination of all of those traps.
I think the "bad game is better than a mid game because at least the bad game makes you feel something" only works to a certain point. Like if the game is bad because it's poorly designed and leads to a lot of frustration. I'd argue a boring game is better because even if you are bored the time you are spending isn't as dreadful.
Ehh, I see what you mean but being bored can also be quite dreadful. Especially if it's something like the Werehog in Unleashed where the boredom is just worsened by the fun daytime Sonic gameplay.
The thing is, slopic farces made you (at least me) feel nothing
@@tadaokou4919Yeah, Unleashed is a special type of dreadful in the first playthrough.
There's actually code for Sonic's wall jump. It's functional but unused. Anyway, I'll write more later since I've been craving for this video.