Dear Prof. Gagnon, to be honest, I don't understand the point of the card game analogy. Two groups only can play the game together after negotiating on the rules. The rules are not made by the cards but by the people playing the game. Using the same set of cards you could play different games depending on the rules applied. The analogy does not explain why a certain set of rules have to be applied, yet this is the point you seem to be trying to make - the understanding of the one group on the rules is correct and has to be adhered to. (then only you accept the authority of Scripture and Jesus Lordship) The other group is wrong. This reveals a certain self centeredness. You seem to assume that a certain group of Christians have the only true view on homosexuality based on a certain interpretation of the texts. (which you call "plain reading", but the decision to do a plain reading already is part of an interpretation.) In my perspective this ignores that morality is not about right and wrong but it is about good and evil. Something that is right according to the law, could still be evil. And something that is at first sight prohibited may still be good. And to be clear I don't want to question the goodness of the law here in general. Let me provide some examples. Even though work was prohibited on the Sabbath, Jesus was healing people. The Law was made for people and not the people for the Law. Or take the example where people said they were giving their valuable things to God instead of supporting their parents who were in need. Jesus clearly said that thus you would not have to honor your parents at all. When people are thrown out by their families and churches for being gay and maybe ending up on the streets as homeless I think that should be a point when we need to ask ourselves whether we are following rules for the rules sake or whether such decisions are made out of true love for our neighbors. Paul makes it clear that the law is for the lawless one and not for the righteous. God already made us righteous through the blood of Jesus. When God puts his law into our hearts as he promised and pours his Holy Spirit into us, then we will act on it being motivated by our heart. (And interestingly most of gay people don't claim that God changes their attraction, why wouldn't He?) We will then be motivated by love and not by fear. (1John 4,18) And we will simply follow our innate impulses. That is how good works follow that are due to faith. That is what I believe it means to be the image of God. It is God's spirit dwelling in us and guiding us through life's decisions. Doing the law out of fear is nothing because only that which we do out of love really counts (1Cor 13). As long as we still need a law or rules we have not yet been made perfect in love, because love is the fulfillment of the law. Someone who loves does not need a law for doing good. Love always does the good for others. God bless, Thomas
@buckyoung457815 күн бұрын
What she is describing has destroyed the Episcopal, Methodist, Presbyterian churches. And, I say this with sorrow as I was born into and raised Episcopalian. But, in the end, I am first a Christian that today worships in the Baptist tradition. If the Baptist lose their Biblical anchoring, I will join another denomination.
@kriegjaeger13 күн бұрын
We're warned not to follow men (denominations) but Christ. Even in the early church people started to align around Paul and Peter, and Paul had to write to rebuke them. Your home is in our family of christ, your church among his people.
@nathanmarone19 күн бұрын
There's a big difference between trying to have compassion for someone trapped in sin and setting up a gay bowling league at your local church. This isn't a long clip, so maybe there's more context, but she seems to be employing a slippery slope argument that goes like this: if we try to understand sin, then it will naturally lead to these kind of grotesque perversions in church life and ministry. I don't think it necessarily follows. Nor does it follow that by attempting some measure of compassion or understanding that there can be no conversion or rescue. From what I've seen of Butterfield, she seems so intent on slamming people in the church (she name checks Preston Sprinkle and David French here) that she isn't concentrating on making better, more fine-tuned arguments for her position.
@joshj3662Ай бұрын
She is [100] correct!
@toddstevens9667Ай бұрын
I think you miss the point of the commercial. It’s making a political point: Jesus is not like those on the religious right that are so judgmental of those that are different or sinful. Basically, the commercial is calling the religious right modern-day Pharisees. Don’t associate Jesus with the hate you find on the religious right that hates gays, illegal aliens, people of different ethnicities, liberals, pro-choice activists, etc, etc. I plowed through the “He Gets Us” book by Max Lucado. He’s really just trying to delineate the open and tolerant Jesus from the bigoted religious right. Of course, that’s just a bunch of nonsense. Obviously, these commercials were a waste of $7 million each. Why spend that much and not tell someone how to get their sins forgiven and how to be saved?
@davehshs651Ай бұрын
Lady, Calling LGBTQ people "evil" is a very UNLOVING, wrong thing to do!!! BTW, if you want to see just how much the authors of the Bible valued women, read Genesis chapter 19, verses 4 - 8.
@qwerty-so6ml2 ай бұрын
Only one Gospel: The Gospel of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods). REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.
@jodyel2 ай бұрын
Who is David French?
@deannaprince79542 ай бұрын
Is this a serious or sarcastic question? Sorry, it's just that French has become a byword for those who claim to support something, but spend all their time bashing or rejecting that thing.
@jodyel2 ай бұрын
@@deannaprince7954 I've never heard of that or him before. So I had no idea what or who she was talking about. Is David French an actual person? I googled the name and did not see anyone or anything that told me.
@deannaprince79542 ай бұрын
@@jodyel Please excuse me for questioning you. No worries! Did you know that drag queens in libraries, reading to kids, is a blessing of liberty? It should NOT be protested or banned?! Read on for David French's opinion... David French used to be a big name in conservative think tanks & political pundit circles. He believes that Christians can win the culture war by always being appealing & gracious. He believes that imposing our morality on the legal/political system is wrong & anti-Christian. We should win people over with our kindness & winsome-ness, never with laws or protests. He left National Review for the New York Times. He now spends more time calling out his fellow Christians, than standing up for anything else. There are plenty of articles making fun of him. Here is an article explaining & defending David French. It still, IMO, shows how deep his compromise w/sin has gone. Here is French's key quote, the one that most people refer to when they criticise him: "[Y]ou can’t define victory as the exclusion of your enemies from the public square. There are going to be Drag Queen Story Hours. They’re going to happen. And, by the way, the fact that a person can get a room in a library and hold a Drag Queen Story Hour and get people to come? That’s one of the blessings of liberty." sharperiron.org/article/truth-about-david-french-and-drag-queen-story-hour
@KRashad2 ай бұрын
💯
@dgbx62 ай бұрын
No, it’s your job to see sin from the point of view of your OWN superior view of scripture, particularly the sin of OTHERS. Smearing other Christians who do not share your narrow legalistic, fundamentalist view of sin, on a public forum is NOT a sin, is it?, because you are not the one who is sinning, right?
@jasenex791Ай бұрын
Can you help me understand what you mean by legalistic and fundamentalist? I don't understand what you mean by them or why they're wrong. This feels like a short clip with a lot of other context missing so it would help to know where you're coming from?
@buckyoung457815 күн бұрын
Don't try and avoid the sin that has destroyed your relationship with God by attacking those that are trying to rescue you. Homosexuality/lesbianism/a man thinking he is a woman or vice versa are deadly sins period. This is true whether delivered with "love" or not.
@kriegjaeger13 күн бұрын
Take God at his word, he's very clear on sexual immorality. Adultery, fornication, sodomy that is the unnatural use of men and women, are all sin. We shouldn't support a man cheating on his wife or running around getting multiple women pregnant and leaving them, any more then we would relations against the lords design; Marriage, which is between a man and a woman.
@ironsakura86572 ай бұрын
True, it is not "nice" or "compassionate" to tell people that their sins are "OK".
@davehshs651Ай бұрын
It's not "nice" to tell people that the way they were created makes them sinful.
@DetVenАй бұрын
@@davehshs651 It's not "nice" or "compassionate" to say such categorical, indisputable lies. Satan certainly has his way with you.
@kriegjaeger13 күн бұрын
@@davehshs651 We're all sinners, we've all fallen short of the glory of God, we all need to be reborn. That means becoming a new creation in christ and apart from the sinful old self.
@dvillegaspro3 ай бұрын
I need this man to respond to Dan Mclellan’s video on the Mormon Stories Podcast. This is a great exposition yet I feel like both sides make the claim that they represent the scholarly consensus.
@ianchappell22033 ай бұрын
Excellent observation and accurate!
@davidfrankscomedy6 ай бұрын
Why would anyone take advice from a bitter, repressed homosexual like Robert Gagnon?
@elijahmarie774446 ай бұрын
If they sell the gospel they are nothing but demons lying to you on purpose
@HOUSEKalls7 ай бұрын
WOW!!!! AMEN AND WELL SAID.
@oluwatunmiseadedeji50567 ай бұрын
Please upload more videos. 🙏
@pOOL-pANTS7 ай бұрын
thank you
@kswyers833011 ай бұрын
Excellent response! Thank you! 🙏👏💥
@jamesreese1999 Жыл бұрын
Excellent!
@pietyhill Жыл бұрын
Thank you, Dr. Gagnon.
@presidentjerry2137 Жыл бұрын
Can I ask a question about your beliefs? I don't know who runs this channel but I would assume you are a Christian. Do you believe that if someone commits an abomination and doesn't truly repent of that abomination (meaning he does the act again) all their life then the person in question will go to hell?
@robertgagnon7647 Жыл бұрын
Failure to repent puts a person at great risk of not inheriting the Kingdom of God (eternal life). See 1 Cor 6:9-10.
@presidentjerry2137 Жыл бұрын
@@robertgagnon7647 that's talking about unrighteous referring the the courts not being saved people like the church is. Unrighteous as in not saved. There righteousness by works, then there's righteousness by faith in Jesus (which is how we obtain rightousness) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 4:3-5 KJV To say we can't get forgiveness and go to heaven without repenting is crazy. You can't tell me there's nothing you do wrong anymore and that your sinless. We all commit ABOMINATIONS daily. Yes abominations. Proverbs 12:22 says a lying tongue is an abomination. And we ALL lie. Anyone who says they don't are actively lying. So why haven't we repented? Don't we know that by your understanding none of us will inherit the kingdom of God? If we are any less than perfect we are doomed by your interpretation. That's basically a work based salvation. God sent Jesus so that we would be forgiven and made righteous by our faith.
@robertgagnon7647 Жыл бұрын
@@presidentjerry2137, in 1 Cor 6:9-11 Paul is primarily returning to the issue of the incestuous man in ch. 5, which is why (1) he introduces the offender list with "Stop deceiving yourselves"; (2) front-ends "the sexually immoral" (pornoi), adding also three examples of sexual offenders not mentioned in the offender lists at the end of ch. 5 (adulterers, "soft men," and men who lie with a male); and (3) goes on to address the danger of self-professed Christians engaging in sexual immorality (6:12-20). Christians are indeed justified by faith; but the absence of an untransformed life is evidence that a self-professed believer either never was a genuine believer or once was but now is at high risk of being excluded from God's kingdom. In other words, the self-professed "brother" in Christ either never walked in faith or is doing so no longer. The fact that Paul can go on in 6:12-20 to talk use the analogy of a genuine believer who can engage in sex with prostitutes shows that he views the incestuous man (whom Paul had identified in ch. 5 as "one who calls himself a brother") tentatively as a genuine believer who is at risk of being excluded from God's kingdom.
@presidentjerry2137 Жыл бұрын
@@robertgagnon7647 so then you're saying you are perfect in every way, gotcha
@BeniaminZaboj Жыл бұрын
@@presidentjerry2137 Did you just called christian biblical claim "absence of an untransformed life is evidence that a self-professed believer either never was a genuine believer" a claim that author is PERFECT? SHAME ON YOU. He don't said anythwere he is perfect, why you lie against this perosn?
Пікірлер
Dear Prof. Gagnon, to be honest, I don't understand the point of the card game analogy. Two groups only can play the game together after negotiating on the rules. The rules are not made by the cards but by the people playing the game. Using the same set of cards you could play different games depending on the rules applied. The analogy does not explain why a certain set of rules have to be applied, yet this is the point you seem to be trying to make - the understanding of the one group on the rules is correct and has to be adhered to. (then only you accept the authority of Scripture and Jesus Lordship) The other group is wrong. This reveals a certain self centeredness. You seem to assume that a certain group of Christians have the only true view on homosexuality based on a certain interpretation of the texts. (which you call "plain reading", but the decision to do a plain reading already is part of an interpretation.) In my perspective this ignores that morality is not about right and wrong but it is about good and evil. Something that is right according to the law, could still be evil. And something that is at first sight prohibited may still be good. And to be clear I don't want to question the goodness of the law here in general. Let me provide some examples. Even though work was prohibited on the Sabbath, Jesus was healing people. The Law was made for people and not the people for the Law. Or take the example where people said they were giving their valuable things to God instead of supporting their parents who were in need. Jesus clearly said that thus you would not have to honor your parents at all. When people are thrown out by their families and churches for being gay and maybe ending up on the streets as homeless I think that should be a point when we need to ask ourselves whether we are following rules for the rules sake or whether such decisions are made out of true love for our neighbors. Paul makes it clear that the law is for the lawless one and not for the righteous. God already made us righteous through the blood of Jesus. When God puts his law into our hearts as he promised and pours his Holy Spirit into us, then we will act on it being motivated by our heart. (And interestingly most of gay people don't claim that God changes their attraction, why wouldn't He?) We will then be motivated by love and not by fear. (1John 4,18) And we will simply follow our innate impulses. That is how good works follow that are due to faith. That is what I believe it means to be the image of God. It is God's spirit dwelling in us and guiding us through life's decisions. Doing the law out of fear is nothing because only that which we do out of love really counts (1Cor 13). As long as we still need a law or rules we have not yet been made perfect in love, because love is the fulfillment of the law. Someone who loves does not need a law for doing good. Love always does the good for others. God bless, Thomas
What she is describing has destroyed the Episcopal, Methodist, Presbyterian churches. And, I say this with sorrow as I was born into and raised Episcopalian. But, in the end, I am first a Christian that today worships in the Baptist tradition. If the Baptist lose their Biblical anchoring, I will join another denomination.
We're warned not to follow men (denominations) but Christ. Even in the early church people started to align around Paul and Peter, and Paul had to write to rebuke them. Your home is in our family of christ, your church among his people.
There's a big difference between trying to have compassion for someone trapped in sin and setting up a gay bowling league at your local church. This isn't a long clip, so maybe there's more context, but she seems to be employing a slippery slope argument that goes like this: if we try to understand sin, then it will naturally lead to these kind of grotesque perversions in church life and ministry. I don't think it necessarily follows. Nor does it follow that by attempting some measure of compassion or understanding that there can be no conversion or rescue. From what I've seen of Butterfield, she seems so intent on slamming people in the church (she name checks Preston Sprinkle and David French here) that she isn't concentrating on making better, more fine-tuned arguments for her position.
She is [100] correct!
I think you miss the point of the commercial. It’s making a political point: Jesus is not like those on the religious right that are so judgmental of those that are different or sinful. Basically, the commercial is calling the religious right modern-day Pharisees. Don’t associate Jesus with the hate you find on the religious right that hates gays, illegal aliens, people of different ethnicities, liberals, pro-choice activists, etc, etc. I plowed through the “He Gets Us” book by Max Lucado. He’s really just trying to delineate the open and tolerant Jesus from the bigoted religious right. Of course, that’s just a bunch of nonsense. Obviously, these commercials were a waste of $7 million each. Why spend that much and not tell someone how to get their sins forgiven and how to be saved?
Lady, Calling LGBTQ people "evil" is a very UNLOVING, wrong thing to do!!! BTW, if you want to see just how much the authors of the Bible valued women, read Genesis chapter 19, verses 4 - 8.
Only one Gospel: The Gospel of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods). REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.
Who is David French?
Is this a serious or sarcastic question? Sorry, it's just that French has become a byword for those who claim to support something, but spend all their time bashing or rejecting that thing.
@@deannaprince7954 I've never heard of that or him before. So I had no idea what or who she was talking about. Is David French an actual person? I googled the name and did not see anyone or anything that told me.
@@jodyel Please excuse me for questioning you. No worries! Did you know that drag queens in libraries, reading to kids, is a blessing of liberty? It should NOT be protested or banned?! Read on for David French's opinion... David French used to be a big name in conservative think tanks & political pundit circles. He believes that Christians can win the culture war by always being appealing & gracious. He believes that imposing our morality on the legal/political system is wrong & anti-Christian. We should win people over with our kindness & winsome-ness, never with laws or protests. He left National Review for the New York Times. He now spends more time calling out his fellow Christians, than standing up for anything else. There are plenty of articles making fun of him. Here is an article explaining & defending David French. It still, IMO, shows how deep his compromise w/sin has gone. Here is French's key quote, the one that most people refer to when they criticise him: "[Y]ou can’t define victory as the exclusion of your enemies from the public square. There are going to be Drag Queen Story Hours. They’re going to happen. And, by the way, the fact that a person can get a room in a library and hold a Drag Queen Story Hour and get people to come? That’s one of the blessings of liberty." sharperiron.org/article/truth-about-david-french-and-drag-queen-story-hour
💯
No, it’s your job to see sin from the point of view of your OWN superior view of scripture, particularly the sin of OTHERS. Smearing other Christians who do not share your narrow legalistic, fundamentalist view of sin, on a public forum is NOT a sin, is it?, because you are not the one who is sinning, right?
Can you help me understand what you mean by legalistic and fundamentalist? I don't understand what you mean by them or why they're wrong. This feels like a short clip with a lot of other context missing so it would help to know where you're coming from?
Don't try and avoid the sin that has destroyed your relationship with God by attacking those that are trying to rescue you. Homosexuality/lesbianism/a man thinking he is a woman or vice versa are deadly sins period. This is true whether delivered with "love" or not.
Take God at his word, he's very clear on sexual immorality. Adultery, fornication, sodomy that is the unnatural use of men and women, are all sin. We shouldn't support a man cheating on his wife or running around getting multiple women pregnant and leaving them, any more then we would relations against the lords design; Marriage, which is between a man and a woman.
True, it is not "nice" or "compassionate" to tell people that their sins are "OK".
It's not "nice" to tell people that the way they were created makes them sinful.
@@davehshs651 It's not "nice" or "compassionate" to say such categorical, indisputable lies. Satan certainly has his way with you.
@@davehshs651 We're all sinners, we've all fallen short of the glory of God, we all need to be reborn. That means becoming a new creation in christ and apart from the sinful old self.
I need this man to respond to Dan Mclellan’s video on the Mormon Stories Podcast. This is a great exposition yet I feel like both sides make the claim that they represent the scholarly consensus.
Excellent observation and accurate!
Why would anyone take advice from a bitter, repressed homosexual like Robert Gagnon?
If they sell the gospel they are nothing but demons lying to you on purpose
WOW!!!! AMEN AND WELL SAID.
Please upload more videos. 🙏
thank you
Excellent response! Thank you! 🙏👏💥
Excellent!
Thank you, Dr. Gagnon.
Can I ask a question about your beliefs? I don't know who runs this channel but I would assume you are a Christian. Do you believe that if someone commits an abomination and doesn't truly repent of that abomination (meaning he does the act again) all their life then the person in question will go to hell?
Failure to repent puts a person at great risk of not inheriting the Kingdom of God (eternal life). See 1 Cor 6:9-10.
@@robertgagnon7647 that's talking about unrighteous referring the the courts not being saved people like the church is. Unrighteous as in not saved. There righteousness by works, then there's righteousness by faith in Jesus (which is how we obtain rightousness) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 4:3-5 KJV To say we can't get forgiveness and go to heaven without repenting is crazy. You can't tell me there's nothing you do wrong anymore and that your sinless. We all commit ABOMINATIONS daily. Yes abominations. Proverbs 12:22 says a lying tongue is an abomination. And we ALL lie. Anyone who says they don't are actively lying. So why haven't we repented? Don't we know that by your understanding none of us will inherit the kingdom of God? If we are any less than perfect we are doomed by your interpretation. That's basically a work based salvation. God sent Jesus so that we would be forgiven and made righteous by our faith.
@@presidentjerry2137, in 1 Cor 6:9-11 Paul is primarily returning to the issue of the incestuous man in ch. 5, which is why (1) he introduces the offender list with "Stop deceiving yourselves"; (2) front-ends "the sexually immoral" (pornoi), adding also three examples of sexual offenders not mentioned in the offender lists at the end of ch. 5 (adulterers, "soft men," and men who lie with a male); and (3) goes on to address the danger of self-professed Christians engaging in sexual immorality (6:12-20). Christians are indeed justified by faith; but the absence of an untransformed life is evidence that a self-professed believer either never was a genuine believer or once was but now is at high risk of being excluded from God's kingdom. In other words, the self-professed "brother" in Christ either never walked in faith or is doing so no longer. The fact that Paul can go on in 6:12-20 to talk use the analogy of a genuine believer who can engage in sex with prostitutes shows that he views the incestuous man (whom Paul had identified in ch. 5 as "one who calls himself a brother") tentatively as a genuine believer who is at risk of being excluded from God's kingdom.
@@robertgagnon7647 so then you're saying you are perfect in every way, gotcha
@@presidentjerry2137 Did you just called christian biblical claim "absence of an untransformed life is evidence that a self-professed believer either never was a genuine believer" a claim that author is PERFECT? SHAME ON YOU. He don't said anythwere he is perfect, why you lie against this perosn?