Cross-Country Skiing Per-Øyvind Torvik
Cross-Country Skiing Per-Øyvind Torvik
This KZread channel is about Cross-Country Skiing, technique, skating and classic style, didactics, technical skiing skills, and coaching them.
I also plan to develop a module with training routines and the physiology in Cross-Country Skiing.
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Are you supposed to use this technique at lower speeds (15-20 km/h) as well?
Yes, this is the prinsiples, but the technique is always adjusted to speed and inklination. More «compact» if the speed is lover!
Okay, thank! @@cross-countryskiingper-yvi9028
Wow! Incredible technique and analysis! 👏
Hope you are well, professor. Hope to see your new video soon. As I am getting better at V2, I still find myself watching this video to remind myself of your important points. Tusen takk.
Hope you are well, professor. Hope to see your new video soon. As I am getting better at V2, I still find myself watching this video to remind myself of your important points. Tusen takk.
смотрел, средненько
Hi, if I compare the technique from this video (about half way in) kzread.info/dash/bejne/mptkxJJsltWanco.html to this skier, I can see that here the person is not leaning or coming down on their poles. Instead it seems they are kinda just moving up and down with almost no fall at all. Is that because they are going really fast or on roller skis? As a person who is new to this sport I'm trying to figure out why. Thanks!
Greetings @cross-countryskiingper-yvi9028 , thank you for these videos. I have watched your double poling videos probably 30 times now. I just started skiing this season and have only been on skis about a month now or so. However thanks to your videos I think I have made really good progress. I have been recording myself and then comparing the footage to what you say and the video that you have. Was wondering if you had one or two items of feedback for me, here is my latest run from this morning: kzread.info/dash/bejne/eXmrutKOe9vJiag.html . Do you offer any coaching services for regular people? I will be doing Vasaloppet this year and am trying for under 8 hours. For next year my goal will be under 6 hours. I have fallen in love with x country skiing and am obsessed with it. Thanks!
Vil gjerne se en analyse av stakingen til Nikita Kriukov, som lett kan argumenteres for å være den beste på et flatt oppløp. Noen interessante ting å ta med seg er at han stort sett ikke gikk opp på tå, som en higer veldig etter i en norsk modell, og at han brukte færrest tak på et oppløp, likt med Bolt som brukte færrest steg på en hundre meter, uten at Nikita var spesielt høy. kraft / sykluslengde > frekvens.
Merry 2023 Christmas, Professor! Thanks for uploading great videos. Your videos are very helpful. Happy new 2024 for you and your loved ones. Fans from 🇺🇸 🇰🇷 🇩🇪
When you say stretch out the foot at the end of the kick (5:44), do you mean point the toes or flex the foot towards the ankle?
I saw your video a lot and still learning from it, I have a hard time hanging my ski in the air, do you have any suggestion for specific work out to improve the technique, thanks have a great winter.
Would be nice to see analysis of beginners also
Hi Per-Øyvind, I’m a former competitive rower from Ireland and I also love cross-country skiing. I run a language school here in Hamburg and mostly teach business people. If you’re interested in improving your English for free - you often mention it in your videos - let me know and maybe we could exchange language and skiing knowledge? I have experience in working in technical analysis and language training with coach from the German rowing team. My family and I also love Norway and we normally spend about 2-4 weeks in Beitostølen every winter. Your videos are fantastic and I find you explain things very well. Of course, as we know, there’s always room for improvement.
Tusen Takk Per-Øyvind for sharing your knowledge with other nations. What software do you use to analyse the technique? I'd like to give my athletes feedback but can't find the right software.
Onform
Does using the stomach muscles to curve the back pose any risks to the spine?
No, it actually protects the spine. The alternative is to use the hip flectors and since they are directly connected to the lumbal vertebrae, repeatedly strong contractions in psoas major muscles can cause disk damage and low back pain. This is not only related to double poling but also to diagonal striding with a to much upright upper body.
Thanks for your reply @cross-countryskiingper-yvi9028. That's interesting! I was under the impression that flexing the back could lead to disc damage. I tried to emulate this technique on skierg yesterday, and it seems to feel good. So I will experiment a bit more with it.
This is an excellent question. I've read a few debates on this topic on forum at Nordic Ski Lab. I have dialed back the "crunch" position traditionally taught because of some back pain from the flexion. The downside is loss of some power. Oh well!
Thank you for your excellent advice, I enjoy watching your technique videos very much.
I wish I could do that so well. I will keep working.
How much are glutes contributing to skating kick?
Lots
Do you have a force profile of a stroke for both techniques? It would be interesting to see max force differences and the area under the curve (total force over the stroke).
Very well explained thank you!
This view from above is great, easier to sa w angle and direction.
Is it even healthy to bend your back like this? even when you double pole for hours..
@ matussloboda24535, In response to your question, I have reviewed all the research that I could find on this topic, and could not find conclusive evidence that it is bad. None of the research articles that I found,however, compared back flexion to non-back flexion. They only looked at whether XC skiing itself led to back problems. Knowing anecdotally that back problems can be the reason for skiers to leave the sport, it is something that does deserve more attention. As a Physical Therapist I believe that it is not healthy to flex deeply and repeatedly through the spine. This is especially important for people who don’t work their posterior chain. All the poling that we do strengthens our anterior chain. To improve performance, skiers may strengthen their poling muscles, the anterior chain exclusively and neglect muscle balance. I believe that this sets those skiers up for injury, and potentially to leave the sport.
Look at Anders Auklands strength training for inspiration and, yes, focus on ballance. The mirror allways fools us. The back of the body needs the same strength as the front.
👍🔥🔥
Thx for this great studies! One question: where could be the mistake when after kicking the ski tip touches the snow when the foot is streched out and relaxing before getting back together? Maybe the kick is done too much from the toes? Thx Tom
Hei Thomas, and thanks for your question. It is not a preferred technical solution, especially if it creates rotations balance problems and slows down the skier. However, the kick must go through the toe because if you limit the ankle extension, you also reduce the force production in the gluteus and quadriceps muscles. They are linked together in a chain and work together in the skating movement in the feets.
Thanks a lot. Very interesting. I am trying to learn right and efficient skate technic
Thank you for English explanation
Fantastic footage and excellent explanation! Thank you! As we analyze more closely, do you think it would be fair to say that we can change the direction of pushing during the kick with the body as the frame of reference? Most notably this would happen with an arcing track, like in the second example, the one in which the gliding direction is different from the skate kicking direction? Some coaches have implied a somewhat circular path, such as in the breaststroke in swimming.
Thanks for your comment Jeffery. I think you are rigth, we will change direction as we glide and kick. That demads that the skier adjust the body position on the ski so the body is in the rigth position when the kick starts, in balance on the ski. I am not familier with the sirkulasjon panterne in V1 technique , but are using this in V2 technique.
@@cross-countryskiingper-yvi9028 Thanks for your reply. I find this topic fascinating and your analysis very helpful. I agree, that I think it is most profound in V2, perhaps V2-A and not as evident in V1
Takk for veldig bra forklaring. Dette skal jeg prøve :)
I have recently experienced extremely soft conditions (both in new fresh snow and in very wet old snow) where poles are sinking 15-20 centimeters. What is a double-poling strategy and technique in these conditions?
Don't know any good strategy for this except "big baskets" on the poles and being gentle whit the snow, long and deep old fashion poling technique. 🙂
@@cross-countryskiingper-yvi9028 I appreciate your suggestion. This was in a race and it seems that for pro skiers soft conditions didn't matter as much.
Du har dom absolut bästa förklaringarna på hur man ska diagonala. Tackar allra ödmjukast, bra jobbat!
#5 Логинов, биатлонист...
Hi Per-Øyvind, this is a fantastic video and a perfect explanation of double poling technique. Thanks for making and posting it!
Tusen takk! Your videos have helped me a lot to become a better skier.
I am having difficulty seeing how the angle is 90 degrees as the frame of reference is unclear. Referencing your clock diagram instead, would you say that the kick is around 4:30 on the right leg and 7:30 on the left leg?
Agree, the complexity makes it difficult to determine, and the kick 90 degree is as I complain around normal to the ski. If not the ski will slip back or forte and the pressure on the ski will be redused. This will change the effect of the kick dramatily in a negative way.
"Tack så mycket" for the English version and as always for the perfect explanation!
Tack så mycket is Swedish, the coach is Norwegian ;-)
@@brodaism, how do you recognize nationality by voice? :) Do you know the coach in person? :)
@@adelg_zel He has a Norwagen name and very clear Norwagen accent and I live in Sweden nowadays and can speak Swedish :D
@@brodaism, so seem to me, you don't know the coach in person.. :) If ur in Sweden and talk Swedish it doesn't make u an expert in recognition Norwegian accents, however u should know that these languages are pretty similar which doesn't make any trouble for the vast majority Norwegians to understand Swedish language
@@adelg_zel I rest my case!
Very interesting exercises, thanks for doing it in English
kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZGVpmsdpf6y4qdY.html Per-Oyvind - you and I have had a discussion before about the direction of push in skating. I have attached a link to a video from Dr. Michael Rudberg from Russia of a presentation that he is making to Russian coaches on the same topic. If you go to 2:30 or so on the video you can see what he believes is the direction of push for V1 or offset. It is, according to his testing, changing all the time and is different on each side. He shows the push direction as starting forward then to the side and finishing back. What do you think?
Tanks Jack for bringing this information and I fine it very interesting. However, it is difficult to understand that to kick forward in the beginning of the push should be optimal. But I fine it likely that the kick direction must change during the push sinc the ski is`nt moving in a strigth line, but is leveling of in the end of the kick. I also think that one pis of the pussel is how the skier is orienting the body on the ski to be in the rigth position to execute the kick in the rigth direction. If you to earley rotates or leavs the ski on the strong side in V1, I think you will Get a very different kick direction than if the first phase of the kick uses the upper body and arms to bring the hip «up on» the ski and knee forward on the strong side. With the center of bodymass in the rigth position before the kick. I think than it will be easyer to execute a strigth kick in the rigth direction. However, I think I must Get a translation of the video from the Russian to learn more, because this is not strigth forward :-)
@@cross-countryskiingper-yvi9028 In every technique what happens in the kick depends on speed, gravity and the steepness of the hill. There is no ONE way to do V1 or V2 or diagonal stride or double poling or any other movement. Each is a continuum - the length of the glide phase, the direction of the push, the recovery, - everything about each push changes. A big issue that I have with most technique instruction is that this continuum is not stated or taken into account and so we see, read or hear - this is how to to V1 or to do diagonal stride, etc. But it is really - this is how to do it at this speed on this hill in these snow conditions. (I have just seen the English translation of this video and you do mention this). And each person is going to try to "solve" the puzzle differently depending on their individual body strengths, weaknesses, flexibility, etc. I think that what Rudberg is showing is V1 up a more gradual hill where in the first part of each push the ski is gliding forward before the pressure is added to start to push to the side. At first I thought he was describing V2 but when you look at the poles in blue it is V1. I think that this is a very "Russian" way of looking at technique. "Long and strong" seems to be the Russian way. It certainly is in diagonal stride. "Modern" V1 is much different - wider legs, shorter pushes, little or no glide. I believe that if you are at a speed or on a slope where you can glide in V1 you should likely be doing V2.
Great cues and explanation.
kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZGVpmsdpf6y4qdY.html Per - this is a link to a KZread video from Russia by Rudberg as he also explains what he believes is the direction of the kick in skating uphill in Offset. I see that you have posted another new video on this but the comments are turned off. What I see in the Rudberg video is that the direction of force in skating is constantly changing throughout the stride. What do you think?
thank you for the nice video and happy crismast
Thank you for your terrific videos! Sadly I think someone is copying your content without attribution or, I assume, permission. If you click the 3 dots under the video you can report the copyright infringement to KZread. It's pretty quick and easy. kzread.info/dash/bejne/dW2EqJWyqavZktY.html
Thank you for these great analyses. I noticed that the tails of the skis cross @4:46, and I guess this is a function of the ski angle. Could you comment on what the angle should be and how it varies with speed and inclination?
Great video! Coach Torvik, looking from the hip joint up, are the movements, coordination & timing of the upper body, including the hands, fairly similar in V2 (gear 3) to double poling? Could you make a video comparing the similarities and pointing out the differences, if any? Thanks.