Zinc bromide as power storage is quite old, but the gel concept reduces the bromine build up problems. Looks very promising.

@1Mandacaru

2 жыл бұрын

Ohh I didn't know it had been being used for long, ty for sharing

@mistaowickkuh6249

2 жыл бұрын

@@1Mandacaru zinc and bromide was a thing but this project is a different way of thinking to eliminate some cons.

@Justwantahover

2 жыл бұрын

Great for large ground based energy storage when weight is not an issue.

@ericmilliot5807

2 жыл бұрын

16 million versus lithium-ion production at 130 million dollars, the choice is pretty clear to me. The rebuilding costs are also very impressive.

@gmw3083

2 жыл бұрын

Good til 50c but what about low temperatures? Canadian here.

I love the way you present new products in an optimistic but sober way without the usual hysterical "gamechanger" hype. Thank you so much for sharing. We are in the midst of a "game changing" energy revolution, but the development is slower and more difficult than many would wish for. However, the real difficulties lie more in the social, political and economic spheres than in the technologies themselves. And while most politicians and economists seem to be STEM and engineering adverse (or at least ignorant of) we will have big hurdles... Enjoy your holiday next week!

@terencefield3204

2 жыл бұрын

We are in the midst of marketing HYPE old sausage!!!

@yodab.at1746

2 жыл бұрын

And not one mention of the word 'insane' or 'destroy'.

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Wenke. Much appreciated :-)

@PeterPete

2 жыл бұрын

The real problem is that man's society cannot move away from the basic well established resources. For example car tyres will always be made of natural rubber. Man has used natural rubber for tyres for over 100 years now. Natural rubber is plentiful and cheap too. Imo no other material exists on Earth that can be used for tyres on mass industrial scale than natural rubber.

@JohnJohnson-rl7fq

2 жыл бұрын

Rome wasn’t built in a day! Everyday a little bit more progress.

This has by far, the best chance of succeeding, especially given it can slot so easily into current manufacturing processes.

@terencefield3204

2 жыл бұрын

How terribly sensible your comment is! Total piffle, but VERY serious!!!!

@Seafox0011

2 жыл бұрын

@@terencefield3204 Rude for what reason?

@forgetful3360

2 жыл бұрын

@@Seafox0011 Piles

@TheLosamatic

2 жыл бұрын

@@Seafox0011 an obvious petroleum troll

Could be really interesting to eventually switch out existing Li-ion batteries for these, in ground-based applications, and repurpose/recycle the lighter weight Li-ion cells for mobile applications

I love the idea of new kinds of batteries for different applications. The ground doesn't care how heavy the battery pack is so a lower specific energy isn't that big of a deal. So use Zinc Bromide GEL, LFP, Lithium Ion, Lead Acid, etc...where they are most fit for purpose. :-)

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

I agree

@GoCoyote

2 жыл бұрын

As an electrician who has worked on battery based energy systems since 2000, I am very glad to see lead acid batteries going the way of the dinosaurs. Lead is incredibly toxic, and many system installers would clean lead battery terminals without wearing PPE to prevent lead ingestion and exposure. While the advantages of lithium over lead acid are numerous, at this point, lithium Iron batteries are cheaper than lead acid batteries used in energy storage when compared to cost per cycle, which is the only real way to compare cost across different battery chemistries and cycle life.

@tomwillis4281

2 жыл бұрын

@@GoCoyote It would be good to have a chart & method for comparing different battery technologies i.e. "energy storage when compared to cost per cycle"

@davestagner

2 жыл бұрын

I think we’ll see layers of different technologies used for grid storage, as different discharge rates and recharge efficiencies come into play. It’s an exciting time, for sure. It’ll take a few decades to build really good grid storage, but once we have it, humanity could have clean power, everywhere, forever.

@chrisb508

2 жыл бұрын

@@davestagner I agree. It is exciting. This is an opportunity to retool and use what is best where it is best.

I've felt for some time that Li-Ion batteries are overkill for home/business/utility scale battery systems. With Li-Ion more ideal in the realm of mobile solutions. Stationary batteries do not suffer from the practical limitations inherent in mobile solutions. You don't need something that is particularly light or small. I definitely feel that Li-Ion does not hit the sweet spot for stationary applications. Furthermore it would be better if the demand for minerals needed for Li-Ion for mobile applications does not have competition from the manufacturing of stationary batteries.

@goldreverre

2 жыл бұрын

Also, the Gelion battery has no fire-safety issues at all.

@garylee867

2 жыл бұрын

You are right but unfortunately Li-ion is the only proved battery technology for relatively large scale energy storage. We already have quite some alternatives that may replace Li-ion in the future, but it will take years to prove they are indeed reliable enough before being widely adopted.

@joeblack4436

2 жыл бұрын

@@garylee867 Certainly. Which is why I'm always happy to see possible alternatives.

@rowaba

2 жыл бұрын

@@garylee867 .. Seriously?? Maybe Li-Ion batteries are the ONLY proven large scale battery storage BUT Pumping water UP into a reservoir during slack demand yields HUGE quantities of stored energy. Way more than any existing quantity of any batteries.. batteries arent necessarily the best way to store potential electricity. LARGE scale storage may not be viable using bartteries. However this seems to break that mold

@garylee867

2 жыл бұрын

@@rowaba Pump hydro is not the solution either (if it is, why do we bother coming up with alternatives). Even if we put the environmental impact for building pump hydro aside, they are high depending on the geography. We just can't build enough pump hydro in practice. We need something that is cheap enough and can be built almost everywhere.

Warm greetings from sun-generated electricity from central Poland. Thank you for introduction of this new type of rechargeable batteries.

Technology aside, 'Just have a think' always provides an easy listen. The important pros and cons of each technology are covered and explained in a thorough yet simple way. Love this channel.

Bromine is classified as an extremely hazardous substance in the United States. I'm not sure how safe this is. It still be practical for grid-scale application where the operator has full accounting, but I can definitely see a NIMBY situation for anyone trying to implement it.

6:44 made my eyebrows raise in surprise. Excuse me? Wow

If this works out, lithium will keep going for a while but it would be goodbye lead acid. And the idea of reusing most of the infrastructure for making LA batteries for the new fangled ones is just excellent! Probably these batteries would be better for ground based energy storage than L batteries too, when weight isn't an issue (if it happens).

@paulhaynes8045

2 жыл бұрын

Anyone who's ever had to remove the lead-acid battery from a car, or accidentally spilt its contents (!), or tried to dispose of one, will be joining me in wishing the end of lead-acid technology as soon as possible!

@joeyveldink4902

2 жыл бұрын

These things would be awesome for going off grid if their price comes down low enough.

@claudepelletier7601

2 жыл бұрын

Price, efficiency (93% round trip interesting for stationary applications) and real life durability will determine the success of this new technology. Good riddance for lead acid batteries 🔋👏👌 (And warranty)

I'm looking forward to your episode when you will follow up the different kinds of energy storage technologies that you have reviewed earlier.

Year after year, a new revolutionary battery technology is announced, yet year after year we're still using Li-ion.

@ethanstump

2 жыл бұрын

just like the tv's of today are almost nothing like the tv's of 30 years ago, let alone 50, the li-ion of today has increased safety, density, capacity and charge rate. just over the last 7 years, i went from a smartphone with a 1000ah battery, to a smart phone with a 5000ah battery, a five fold increase, and my phone is a midranger, not top of the line. due to the industrial nature of the technologies being discussed, they are changing the backend of the market far more than the front end. that being said, i do think your right about how even utilities are still increasing usage of li-ion. however, that's more due to the maturity of li-iion, utility scale is much more slower due to increased bureaucracy and politics. as time moves forward and proves the success of some of these projects, they will be more likely to scale. if you want to speed up the process, you might want to get a guillotine then.

@ethanstump

Жыл бұрын

@@charonstyxferryman whoops, my bad, mAH. its been a long year, ok

Plenty of places where weight doesn't matter, but price and reliability does. I'd happily take a stack of these :)

This looks very promising and I'm glad to see how close they are to mass production. I would like to see more information on the charge/discharge longevity of such batteries. If there are some critical assessments that would be a helpful addition as well. One thing I'm aware of is that bromine is a highly reactive element which easily diffuses into the air. That is not a situation found in most of the other battery technologies.

@TheHuesSciTech

2 жыл бұрын

I'm assuming the "Bromine Complexing Agents" mentioned in the legend in the diagram at 4:26 complex with the bromine to reduce its volatility.

@glenrisk5234

2 жыл бұрын

Be interested to know about charge control requirements, for use with solar and generators when necessary? Being off-grid myself.

@goldreverre

2 жыл бұрын

It can be completely discharged to 0%. In fact, doing this is planned for on a regular basis in order to "reset" the battery. Life testing is on-going, but I believe they are possibly looking at achieving over 20,000 cycles.

@linmal2242

Жыл бұрын

This is already up and running !

The Gelion battery has been safety-tested by heating on a hot plate to 600 degrees. It can't catch fire. It kept pumping out power until the casing eventually melted and the thing fell apart.... It's very promising for long life, safe grid storage solution. GELN share price is just under 1 GBP and it's significantly under-priced in my opinion. (I've invested)

Really looks like the cheap home energy storage solution. Current 12v/100 ah batteries are priced around 500 US. Imagine zinc bodies at half that price, that's a winner.

@incognitotorpedo42

2 жыл бұрын

We don't know what this battery will cost.

@DrakeN-ow1im

2 жыл бұрын

@@incognitotorpedo42 ...but bear in mind that lead-acid batteries deteriorate greatly when subjected to more than 50% discharge which, in effect, makes the Ahr rating actually 50% of that advertised.

AND, it's nice to have your name to put with your face, Mr. Dave Borlace. Thanks for all you do.

You went into your 1 week break on a really high note. Loved this one. Positive hopeful video!

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks snoopaka. That's very kind feedback :-)

I have always looked at lithium batteries with the question: "Why are people using those when weight isn't an issue?" Lithium is great for moving objects, but for stationary ones the advantage is small. I've used lead-acid for electric vehicle designs before electric cars were popular, and it worked. But Lithium is great there. And should probably be reserved for that application.

@jimgraham6722

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed, modern lead acid formulations are as good for stationary situations as lithium at half the price.

@TheLosamatic

2 жыл бұрын

@@jimgraham6722 the whole point of the newly listed company is it makes lead acid batteries obsolete that is unless you just enjoy being around lead and sulfuric acid!

@ronblack7870

2 жыл бұрын

@@jimgraham6722 i don't think that's the case. LFP batteries can do 10- 20 thousand cycles if managed properly. i don't think lead acid comes close at all.

@arcachofo

2 жыл бұрын

There are other factors, for example lead-acid don't like to stay at mid charge for long periods, they need to be fully charged (and slightly overcharged time to time) to avoid sulfatation. While lithium are very happy working in the 20% to 80% SOC range. In renewable energy systems is ussual that the battery doesn't reach 100% SOC for weeks, which is a killer for lead-acid, but good for lithium.

@jimgraham6722

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheLosamatic Can you buy this new battery and if so how much?

Lake Mead is a lovely walk these days. Farmers want to grow crops and city people want to drink but here comes an equality of thirst and hunger. Thank god for my handheld devices.

it is good to know that we will have dozens of different short term energy storage systems available, to even out the highs and lows of renewable energy systems, but everyone seems to be ignoring the meteorological blocking high pressure system in the room, or in the case of the U.K. covering the whole country, at least twice each winter this country is inflicted by a weather event, known as a blocking high pressure system, which can last for up to 2 weeks at a time, and they usually come with a blanket of cloud, which further reduces the limited amount of light for any solar panels, plus there is little or no wind to power the wind turbines, and consequently minimal wave activity, leaving us with only nuclear power, but even if we get 8 shiny new nuclear power stations, that is only equivalent to 30% of our energy needs, which would require us to reignite our fossil fuel power stations. put simply we need a system that store and supply 60 to 70% of our energy needs for up to a month each winter. all the systems i have seen so far, are variations on batteries that can put out energy for 12 hours at best, the cost of having multiples these systems for day after day would be huge, the obvious solution would be to turn surplus green electrical energy into a chemical form which could be stored for months before being turned back into electricity, this could be as simple as using electrolysis to produce hydrogen, but of course someone will now point out that you lose energy during the electrolysis process, and you lose more turning hydrogen back into electricity, but if the electricity fort the electrolysis process comes from renewable green energy it should be of little concern if there is some loss along the way, of course storing hydrogen does come with its own challenges, may be green ammonia might be a better option , then again it ahs been suggested that large scale and long term energy storage is unnecessary, and that we should rely on interconnectors under the sea to exchange electricity backwards and forwards between ourselves and Europe, on the assumption that some part of Europe will always have a surplus we can use, given the difficulties Europe is currently having with securing enough energy for itself, I think it is extremely unwise to assume that our partners in Europe will always be willing, or even able to supply what we need, when we need it, storing our own surplus energy in a chemical form means we stay in control, it should have always been obvious that for every 2 wind turbines you install to supply direct electricity, that you would need a third to produce electricity for storage, both short term and long term, in relative terms the cost of a third wind turbine is not that great, and the fuel to run a wind turbine is still free, but it is the choice of storage system that will determine the cost of future of electricity, as an island nation we do have a lot of natural resources at our disposal wind, wave and tidal, but people need to start realizing that it is not just hours of low renewable production we need to worry about, but that there will many days at a time when production will fall below what is required, so we must start planning for that now.

A very interesting and well presented report on Gelion's battery breakthrough. One thing I found disappointing was the lack of critical specifications such as charge/discharge efficiency and charge/discharge rates,. My interest is for off grid power applications. It wasn't clear how much cell management electronics will be required, either.

@yodab.at1746

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds like very little need for cell based management systems compared with lithium ion due to the resilience of the chemistry.

@sportbikeguy9875

2 жыл бұрын

@@yodab.at1746 my thoughts exactly. Price, longevity, and efficiency are the only things that really matter for consumers/investors. I'm not off grid, be pretty close to it, I would rather have a battery backup with solar over a generator. The solar would offset my electric bill, and the battery bank would be good for power outtage

@Trahloc

2 жыл бұрын

@@sportbikeguy9875 Yes and no. A lot of things still run off lead acid. Most UPS systems run off it for instance. If these can be built to be a drop in replacement for lead acid that will be a great boon for smaller facilities that don't have access to massive venture capital to build clean room ideal versions. A lot of places need to make do with reality, not build for the utopia.

@ebattleon

2 жыл бұрын

Well, basic ZnBr batteries need to be full discharged to prevent Zn dendrites from shorting out the plates, and required a special BMS to do this across the stack. I doubt they fully solved that issue, but it is not an unsolvable and would probably be built into the commercial batteries.

@TheLosamatic

2 жыл бұрын

@@ebattleon maybe you should actually watch the video!

Many thanks for this one. This battery was announced at Sydney U with campus lights that solar collected in daytime and lit up at night. It is progress indeed that Gelion has made it onto your illustrious channel. Personally I will be happy when a powerwall replacement becomes affordable - even if I have to put it in a small garden shed.

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

Cheers Christopher :-)

@paulhaynes8045

2 жыл бұрын

Amen to that! I have been considering installing solar for the last 9 years (ever since we moved into our current house with a large, south-facing, roof), but I still haven't done it. Even with the reduced cost of the panels, it just doesn't make sense to install a system that generates electricity at the very time we are least likely to use it. A stack of these batteries my cellar would solve the problem nicely.

@scottsummers819

2 жыл бұрын

@@paulhaynes8045 Not installing them may well have been a smart move. I did it about 5 years ago and wish I hadn't. The energy market here in Australia is geared to ONLY benefit the grid scale providers. They do this by paying an absolute pittance for your excess energy and then sell it to some one else for 7-10 times the price, with zero capital costs to them for infra structure. They pay me 5c/kwh and charge between 35-45c/kwh and they are talking about reducing the feed in tariff even more, perhaps even to zero during peek output times. My total bill including paying of the 4kw system and grid connected power is around 30-40% higher than just buying direct from the grid. The only real money I save is when I can actually use the power I am producing which is of coarse when no one is home. I will start winning when the panels are paid off but thats not for another 2 years or so. Solar panels have come down a lot in price in the last few years but when I got mine it was around $6500 (+ interest) that money IMO could have been better spent. A battery might change the equation slightly but another $10k is not really appealing to mostly benefit the power companies (see AGL's battery plan). YMMV but do some thorough research and crunch the numbers before you bite the bullet and invest.

@TheNicog1

2 жыл бұрын

@@scottsummers819 that is because energy cost is that low. The expensive part is the grid and taxes.

@TheNicog1

2 жыл бұрын

There are still plenty of homes that have an oil tank for energy storage for heating, so plenty of application where the space would not be an issue.

enjoy your break, and thanks for the great content

"Break Through Game Changer." The new, improved "Paradigm Shift."

The only relevant question for stationnary storage: what's the cost of installed kWh ? How does it compare with, say, Form Energy Iron air battery with presumed 20USD per installed kWh ?

@davelevj

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely, this is the single most important question and he didn't answer it (even with an estimate). Kinda disappointing

@GoCoyote

2 жыл бұрын

More importantly: Cost per installed kWh cycle, as cycle life has the greatest impact on total payback over time.

@SurmaSampo

2 жыл бұрын

@@davelevj How the fuck would he know since they have yet to be manufactured at scale?

@johndododoe1411

Жыл бұрын

I checked Gelion's website, and they provide no prices and no technical data for the products they are apparently planning to sell, such as batteries in well known lead-acid form factors. I was trying to find out if they could be used in my existing small stationary installations that use that older technology.

Robert Murray Smith demonstrated a homemade zinc bromide cell. I suggested using silica gel as was used in lead acid gel cells. It is really easy to make your own that are safe by adding silica gel to the electrolyte.

Thanks all! This is a nice improvement on a flow battery.

Viable and likely to be implemented worldwide, I'd say.

Love these videos. It gives me hope.

There are many innovators and clever people in Australia, however many of these fantastic ideas end up dying due to lack of funding on a government level or the technology goes overseas creating jobs and economic growth for other countries when it should be kept here in Australia, hopefully these batteries take off and with the added bonus of no pesky BMS, fire risk or temperature losses plus ease of series or parallel configurations this battery has a ton of potential!

Brilliant presentation, you manage to make even the boring details sound interesting and understandable. Thank you 🙏

Love your channel. You provide some great information, thanks.

Thanks for always providing good news. Great.

I’d like to know the specific energy density, power density (both charge and discharge), efficiency (claimed to be 90% round trip), cycle life and whether they need maintenance cycles like zinc bromide flow natteries do? Power density is important if we’re talking house scale batteries. After all, it’s not much good having a 10kWh system if it can only deliver 500W. Oddly the Gelion website does not have a technical specifications section. Until they include this most basic information it is difficult to take them seriously.

Great to see a new option that can so easily be integrated into existing production facilities. very good.

Thank you, Dave, for another contribution. I wish I could finish my thesis this summer. All the best to you.

Great videos. One of my favorite channels. Keep up the good work.

Thank you david, very interesting once again. Enjoy your time off

We need all the ideas and we need to use them all where a use case can be found. Imagine if we had only one chemistry of battery the cost and availability of the materials would soon become a big issue. If we have a diverse selection of solutions we mitigate that risk.

Have a great holiday, thanks for your brilliant content! x

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks James. :-)

Pleased to see another possible storage tool. Perfect solutions seldom are, so every capable and cost effective option for energy storage is an excellent one, even if it is only used as a transition from now to the next innovation! I remember the ZnBr flow batteries from RedFlow in Australia. Just looked and they are pitched toward industrial or remote only. Looking for that 10-20kWh solution that will make using intermittent renewables easy for a future home of mine. Thanks for the revisit to the ZnBr based batteries!!

Very interesting indeed. Thank you. .

Fantastic work as always. Thank you!

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you :-)

Yes, I love this program and have some of them more than once.

The greatest channel on KZread did it again, great video as always. Thank you.

I like how you touched on the point of "market entry". By coming in the same casings as lead acid, you could see car manufacturers easily making a wholesale switch to the new jellies

For stationary applications cost is everything. Cost of purchase, cost of maintenance and cycle life. If cost is low enough to make GWh+ size installations viable it's a game changer.

So refreshing to see all the new energy items being developed by young people every where. Its only the corporations and politicians that keep telling everyone " it can't be done" because they don't want to lose $$$$$$ on the fossil fuel markets.

Maschmeyer is great: I think he's also invented a wonderful plastic recycling system that's hopefully near commercialisation.

With so many companies working on a better battery, you know that someone is going to hit the jackpot sooner or later. I get the feeling that there won't be a single winner here, because different technologies offer different advantages for different applications. So I see all the work by so many different companies as rays of hope for future energy technology.

Excellent video. One of your best for content. I was so enthralled by the info presented that I forgot to look for the humorous side. Nice job and incredible research. Have a nice vacation.

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it! :-)

This sounds good. Thanks for bringing the news.

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

Cheers Ronald

Fascinating, thank you.

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

See, this is what I'm talking about, real science just hasn't been funded enough to address the problems of transitioning to a more electric and green power system. There are probably countless answers like this one that completely reframe the concept of what's even possible.

Yes, this will work... great stuff

Thank you

Thanks Again. You have a knack for highlighting the important points, providing good supporting detail, but not getting lost in the weeds.

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you :-)

According to RenewEconomy, the company expects to be mass producing batteries for applications ranging from residential to grid at a cost of below $100/kWh by the end of 2021. (Article 2019 Pre Covid) Addendum: Battery Energy AU: testing/validation 2022, production 1q 2023 - 5000+ cycles @ 100% DoD.

This sounds like a very common sense solution. Simple, as it should be. Thanks for this presentation.

Great video, flow batteries will be a huge part of future utility providers, forgetting any green considerations, it's just cheaper to utilize power storage than to try and guess when and for how long to ramp up expensive peaker plants and suffer the fines that come when you get it wrong.

I can get on board with this, especially since it can use existing manufacturing and recycling facilities.

Thanks

That really does sound promising seeing that it can be put into existing battery architecture with little change. Why recreate the wheel when thinking outside the square you can tweak it make something better at low cost.

Storage is the critical link to get us to 100% renewable energy - I think we will need several solutions and this looks to be one of them.

As always wonderful job on your presentation this technology sounds like it could be great for grid storage. It’s always best to have as many viable options as possible hope this finds a place in the market

excellent content

Another brilliant show - thank you sir

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

Cheers Colin :-)

Want one now

I remember a colleague working on ZnBr cells back in 1980.

Looks very interesting Storage and Grid stability is very important .

@scottslotterbeck3796

2 жыл бұрын

Nuclear. Always on, carbon-free.

@grahamoldfield3474

2 жыл бұрын

@@scottslotterbeck3796 Don't disagree with Nuclear especially small modular plants that can be quickly built . French Nuclear plants actually have huge battery storage systems so they can store excess energy for peak loads . this where are you? they don't have to ramp up or down reactors . Tesla Big battery in South Australia was actually made by the French company that makes them for the Nuclear plants .

@davidwatson2399

2 жыл бұрын

@@scottslotterbeck3796 Not at my house. Nuke still needs wire connection. There is a need for this type of storage, NOW.

Capacity per weight is one important metric but not the only one. Capacity per volume and capacity per price are other important factors depending on the application.

Isn’t this similar to EOS Energy’s modular aqueous zinc batteries now in production in Pittsburgh PA? One of the advantages is that since they don’t require specialized ventilation & fire suppression systems, they can be installed more easily within existing buildings that have high energy demand, like high-rise towers, or shopping centers with lots of refrigeration load. These lower cost batteries will be important in the build-out of urban & suburban micro grids, especially when integrated with solar rooftop & parking lot canopies with V2G chargers.

Very promising. I was a little concerned by the passing mention of "other chemicals" when introducing the contents of the gel but I'm hoping against the sudden dark surprise which will ruin the joy of such a positive development. In revisiting some of your previous subjects to review progress, I would like to see more about the Sinn power multi energy platform idea, having personally seen the pilot tidal generator on the breakwater in Herakleion, Crete ( looked pretty damaged by a play session with an overly excitable Poseidon). Having been at sea in some rough conditions it is the stability of such technology I find difficult to believe.

i hope i catch that review of previous videos on batteries.

ZnBr gel might be a good fit for residential home storage as part of a solar / wind collecting systems. It seems to be pretty maintenance free in the gel form.

Thank you. I would love to test these as stationary systems in my home. Weight is not an issue. I expect units would be very large. I really like this development. Missing were charging times and number of cycles. It seems to be implied that the number charges is quite large. Solar power not mentioned either. I tend to use all in one systems that have all the electronics internal to the units so don’t need to think about DC to AC and vice verse. Of course, the question is when we might actually see these as commercially available products.

I think you would find it worthwhile when talking about Zinc Bromine flow batteries to look at Redflow flow batteries that have been in production in Australia for a number of years. They have many installations in Australia and in other countries around the world and are gaining recognition as a reliable manufacturer and supplier in the US.

@123machet

Жыл бұрын

Problem is they can't make margin. Gelion looks like the tech may be superior to Redflow which have a weird sort of plastic moulding.

Thanks Dave for introducing to the innovative developments in field of renewable energy.

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

Cheers Rajesh :-)

Great video. Great channel. Zinc Bromide GEL batteries may be great for larger, non-portable, applications.

An Australian company called Redflow has been manufacturing Zinc Bromide flow batteries for quite a few years now. They have a lot of installations with the latest being one in California. Unlike the Gelion battery, they are a more typical flow battery which they build up into groups for scalability. The Gelion does have the advantage of being a more "conventional" battery. I am enthusiastic on flow batteries because they do not have the flammability and toxic chemicals of Lithium Ion and I would have one of these for home storage vs the potential blowtorch. Also, the recycling is less problematic. Just recently we had a grid scale battery go up in flames in Queensland Australia with the fire fighting effort being one of letting it burn and controlling exposures. Really good for the environment all those toxic chemicals released. Yeah.. nah! The headline for flow battery storage is the depth of discharge and also no self discharge if inactive for long periods. Also superior cycling ability on top of the safety. PS: I won't have an EV till we have "safe" batteries that don't go off like fireworks.

Brilliant video. Just imagine if the human capacity for creativity was turned from war making to rescuing the Earth from environmental degradation.

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed!

Thanks. I'll be watching the costs, availability and improvements in the capacity of these cells. They already hold more Wh per litre and kg than Lead/acid cells. Enjoy your well-earned break. 🙂👍

They sound like they would potentially be a viable replacement for lithium-ion in home energy storage. If say I needed 10 kWh of storage to get my fairly efficient house to get through the hours when the sun isn't shining (assuming a I didn't have a windmill to go with the solar array), then I would need about 200 kg (440 lbs) of Zinc Bromide batteries as opposed to 50 kg of lithium ion. But frankly my garage floor really doesn't care if I put 200 kg or 50 kg of batteries on it. Now if the volumetric density was a lot less and so the physical dimension of a zinc bromide battery was a lot larger and intruded into the space for my cars, then I might need to care. But barring that, this sounds like a good pairing with a home solar array.

@SurmaSampo

2 жыл бұрын

Stick them in a small shed outside and keep the premium spaced inside your house for other uses.

Something to consider is its power density as gel will be lower and also charge restrictions with gel to prevent irreversible bubbles from forming.

Well I had a think … and Thanks in part to watching this channel… I just bought an electric lawnmower and WeedEater & blower (used I’m cheap ) … the lithium batteries cost about as much as the tool .. I’m not sure of the overall efficiency but … the joules of human energy required to pull the starter rope how ever many times ..just to get a gas engine running and the time you spend idling and not doing any real work … plus going to the gas station to get ethanol free gas etc. … is another factor that really never gets figured into the energy efficiency conversation… Enjoy your Vacation Cheers 🍻

8:35 energy density of the battery of 50wh/kg is good compared to led acid (30wh/kg).

Estimated price comparison is always useful information 😇

excellent

Redflow's zinc bromine 10kw flow batteries have been in production for a while now. They are not that bulky or complex, they are scaleable and they have a hibernation mode. I think they already answer a lot of the limitations which you mention with regard to flow batteries. I should know; I have two of them in my household solar system.

@rogerpearson9081

8 ай бұрын

Apart from them not being as compact as a Powerwall, they would be excellent for home use. A former CEO had one installed in his house and it was the goods. This was in 2016 when we had a major outage in South Australia where the grid was out for days. Simon Hackett was formerly founder of my ISP where his savvy made it a leader in ISPs. Sadly it became a commodity after he left.that Also sadly Redflow don't do those size systems now having moved to bigger scales. Their smallest is a quad with 40KwHrs..

Superb! Thank you for sharing this video! Greetings from Papua New Guinea!

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you :-)

@luimackjohnson302

2 жыл бұрын

@@JustHaveaThink You are most welcome! We really enjoy the thought provoking topics you cover. It indeed makes you have a Think!

Great video, I would like to buy these batteries for my diy powerwall

I just installed my pv array and can't wait for a new and affordable storage solutions so I can go off grid!!! Take care have a nice small and relaxing leave ☺️

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

Cheers Lazarus :-)

A breakthrough game changing, this changes everything, to the moon once in a lifetime opportunity?

My countrymen have come up with many amazing new technologies, but we categorically suck at converting those technologies into usable products and businesses. It's good to see this is an exception to that.

Imagine if they made kits for diy and you just got n70 cases from recyling centers...Awesome👍🏻

I'd love to see a series of videos on what we, the public, can do to help with this climate mess. Maybe a look at the Passive House institute. A look at the SEAI in Ireland. The UK equivalent. The American equivalent. Comparisons between them.

Great video again. Im always looking to upgrade my motorhome alas this sounds like its not a mobile solution, very interesting all the same for when I give up travelling.

@JustHaveaThink

2 жыл бұрын

It wouldn't have the power to run your motorhome, but there are lots of applications where it will have an advantage.

I wouldn't mind watching a video listing all the tech that didn't make it to the show and show a progress bar on each including ones that can't ever be done.