For hunting, cold bore zero is what matters. Shoot one shot every day and record its position. Compile about 10 and use that as your zero. Light profile barrels shift a lot and with very few shots in my experience.

@timothym2241

Ай бұрын

I agree. It’s also valuable to know, whether your cold bore shot is different than the rest. Assume it is, unless you know otherwise.

@GreenFields-7777

Ай бұрын

I have a carbon barrel and I would never buy one again. It’s hard to get any kind of really good accuracy grouping unless you’re prepared to sit there all day. And forget about taking a shooting course because the amount of shots you need to take as specified time is infeasible with that type of barrel.

@HazardousRob

Ай бұрын

Really? I've had 3 and they're all flawless

@anthonyhilton4168

Ай бұрын

I’ve got a Savage ultralight with a carbon fiber barrel and it’s shooting 1/2” or better (on a 3 shot group). I also have an Eric Cortina tuner brake on it, maybe that’s the difference?

@McgSpook

Ай бұрын

I dont shoot hunting rifles much so Im assuming it may be more of an issue with the thinner barrels and such. On good heave match barrels I dont see cold bore shift. There is clean bore shift of course. Personally, after a good cleaning I will shoot 10 rounds or so to foul it up and leave it alone until accuracy starts to degrade. Rinse, repeat.. There was a time when i thought cold bore shift was happening and what i found out (for me) was that it was actually cold shooter. To test this i took another rifle with me each day and did my first 20 or so shots from that other rifle. Then i shot the rifle i had a recorded cold bore on. Amazingly enough, no shift. That made me realize i needed a lot more work on my body position mechanics. Others may have different experiences.

thirty years ago I had purchased a rem model seven, it shot 1 in groups when new, sent it off to have the barrel action refinished with dull finish, was very shinny bluing. the gunsmith refinished the rings and mount also. put rifle back together and it still shot good for about 2 years deer hunting, less than ten shots total and four deer in the freezer, then every thing went to crap, 3-4 inch groups. glass bed the stock, no changed, it sat in the gun safe for twenty five years. recently I pulled the old classic rifle out of the safe and did a completed relook, come to find that a tally base was loose, I knew right away that was the culprit. lock tight the bases on and the rifle now shoots just under 1 inch groups. life is good again !

@johnnyadams1755

Ай бұрын

Right away...25 years later😂

@jayblemsin4226

Ай бұрын

Whats a tally base ?

@SammyMoore-tg5gs

Ай бұрын

@@jayblemsin4226 Talley is a company that makes quality scope rings and bases. Highly recommend.

@JDsModernMartialArts

Ай бұрын

​@@jayblemsin4226Talley makes scope rings and mounts. 😊

@chasetheoutdoors

29 күн бұрын

I couldn’t imagine shooting my rifle less than ten times in over a two year span.

I shoot PRS and when I have a zeroed rifle in Indiana and go to Northern Michigan or Southern Indiana or even 2 hours west in Illinois the following day, I have to re-zero because sometimes it's still off even if your equipment is not loose. Temperature, barometric pressure, density altitude, all kinds of stuff can affect your zero from one day to the next.

@onebadjack1313

Ай бұрын

Have you tried the 4dof zero range function? I've been meaning to see if that works. I didn't realize what it was til recently.

@JourdanUrbach

Ай бұрын

What scope are you running?

@onebadjack1313

Ай бұрын

@cijetovina You are correct! I had to look at my 4dof. Apparently, my memory sucks.

@hallovelo2478

Ай бұрын

@patrioticguy1791 A rifle is never zeroed. Also the change of light will affect your pint of impact. For sure it depends on what your goals are on hitting a target.

@francescobredemeyer6077

28 күн бұрын

Spot on about temperature, barometric pressure and altitude!!!

One point not mentioned is if you wear glasses. This can impact your parallaxes without realizing. I never realized cold bore issues with my Model 70 or my Blazer. This usually is a thing with extremely thin barrels e.g. Kimber from my experience or can be caused by a barrel with improper stress relief due to incorrect heat treatment which should very very rare. I like the turret stickers.

I totally agree with you in that everyone wants to focus on group size, but none of that matters especially in a hunting rifle if it can't consistently hold zero.

I think cold bore “shifts” come predominantly from people cleaning their barrel between range sessions or between zero’ing their gun. You scrub that barrel and you will absolutely have POI change for a shot or so. You commonly hear cold bore shift discussions with fairly inexperienced shooters or casual shooters. I don’t ever hear precision shooters have issues with cold bore POI problems.

this was the exact problem i had ,missed an ibex about 9,10inches down, at 350 meters, i rechecked everything at last it was the suppressor that was lil bit loose, i thought i cant be the problem so went to the range to check , you know what happened,

Man... thank you. It so easy to forget to tighten everything down. Had my rifle out to the range two weeks ago and it was perfect, went out yesterday and couldn't hit a thing. Just now checked it after watching this, my rear scope mount was loose, bipod was loose, and my suppressor was backed off about 1/8th of a turn!

@jasonshults368

Ай бұрын

I'd hate to see the condition of your car/truck. And the rest of us hage to share the road with you.

@matthewpenn407

Ай бұрын

@@jasonshults368 My tahoe is immaculate. The problem is that I have to drive highway 4 to and from work. Look it up, it's in south Texas. One of the worst highways in the Untied States.

What about scope cant ?….I shoot out at a buddies property, but the ground isn’t always level where we shoot. I’m running Holland levels on all my scoped long guns now. You hit the light conditions point very well. I used to get frustrated sighting in, I’d shoot on a weekend, & get the gun dialled in during mid day. Then I sometimes ran out to the shooting range after work when the sun was going down, and my point of impact would change, not a lot, but enough to frustrate me. I soon started sighting in later in the evenings when the sun wasn’t hitting my scope at different angles and noticed my point of impact was never far off week to week.

Everything starts with the shooter. If your shooting form is consistent then you go looking at equipment and other potential issues. We all must pay attention to pressure, humidity, wind, lighting, thermals, etc. At the end of the day the best rule to follow is that if you're not sure of where your shot impact will be, don't take the shot. There's nothing wrong with an ALL STOP if things are wrong. In fact, that's the safest thing to do. Great video. Thanks for all the work you and the crew (family and friends) have done to provide these videos and information for us so we can all learn.

That must be why California makes it a felony to possess a hearing protection device. They're really looking out for us!

@HookLineSinger

Ай бұрын

Seriously??? 😐

@newscoulomb3705

Ай бұрын

@@HookLineSinger Seriously. It's also a felony to possess a "sniper scope," which is any optic with night vision or thermal capabilities. Just think how dangerous it would be if people could correctly identify targets in low-light conditions. California law makers are truly special.

@HookLineSinger

Ай бұрын

@@newscoulomb3705 makes me thankful to be in Alabama!

@Zer0Edits00

Ай бұрын

You mean a suppressor? Cuz a hearing protection device could be headphones 💀

@newscoulomb3705

Ай бұрын

@@Zer0Edits00 I said what I said. 😉

Also. Lifting your head off the rifle and changing your cheek weld will cause accuracy issues. If your action and magazines are working properly, there is no reason to lift your head. Watch competitive shooters, they only lift their head when changing targets and distances.

@RealSB

Ай бұрын

Every time he shot it was the first shot...

@Gunrunner223

Ай бұрын

Absolutely. Especially if your scope is a fix parallax scope, and your shooting a distance that's different from the factory setting. Most deer rifle fix parallax scopes are set at 100yds. But some shotgun, muzzleloader, or rim fire scopes may be 50, 60, 75 yards set. They all work ok for most deer hunting ranges in the southeast, but my paper punching, or coyote guns, all get adjustable parallax scopes.

@RealSB

Ай бұрын

@@Gunrunner223 I've had friends that could put their face and eye in the same exact place every time, I'm not that guy.

@Gunrunner223

Ай бұрын

@@RealSB me neither

Very good information. I really enjoy your videos and your honest, unbiased opinion on equipment. I agree with you about the "Cold Bore Shift" phenomenon.

Hahaha lost it when you started hammering that scope

@clintonlayne9253

Ай бұрын

My thoughts were I wonder if Leopold warranty will cover it. 😂

Incredible. Very well done video that covers a lot of common reasons for losing zero. I learned something new. Thanks!

The second point is really fascinating. It’s call the Law of Large numbers in stats. You’ll know when you’ve shot enough rounds to zero when the center of the groups no longer moves a significant distance. Great video!

@phild9813

Ай бұрын

I have zero interest in knowing the answer to this question for a big game hunting rifle. The first shot is by far the most important, and maybe up to two after that matters much less. Some rifles wander a lot after getting hot, some don’t.

@blantant

Ай бұрын

​@@phild9813this assumes the human doesn't overestimate their skill and has a rock solid platform.

@user60521123

Ай бұрын

@@phild9813 Basing your accuracy on one shot will not tell you anything about the accuracy of your first shot. If you need your first shot to be on the money, you should base it on an even larger group. You can do this while allowing your rifle to cool off. It’s about probability not luck.

@johnkissam8312

Ай бұрын

Really appreciate your contribution. Smacked my forehead and…..of course. Also remembered that data should not be anally extracted !! Otherwise it’s simply so much B.S.

Jim, great video. One thing that I would love to see addressed is the condition of the bore during the cold bore shot. I would love to see your advice on storing a gun (clean barrel, dirty barrel, or an oiled barrel and pushing a few clean patches through.. etc). This might be an explanation to why the shots after the first shot seem to be more consistent (oil is gone and barrel is fouled). Competition shooters could just foul the barrel with a few shots before competing, but for hunters this often is not an option and certainly it isn't ideal. Would be an interesting topic to address, and maybe combine it with a barrel cleaning video (should you clean a bore to bare metal, should you keep it consistently 'fouled-clean' or maybe shoot x amount of shots and then clean and foul the barrel and never touch the barrel until accuracy drops off again). Lots of things to think about :)

@jason200912

Ай бұрын

Mostly clean but don't clean it so hard with ammonia that it reveals eliminates the copper filling up those pores

@Eburns77

Ай бұрын

That’s also what I’ve heard with regard to not cleaning out the copper fouling. What I’ve heard reported is the muzzle velocities will actually go up a little bit with the initial deposition of copper. Worth noting on Jim’s last point with shooter position is the angle of the gun with respect to vertical, which if not eliminated will throw your shots around a bit.

@pickardjw

Ай бұрын

Easy solution: don't clean your barrel...ever

@randallreiners3703

Ай бұрын

Plus shooter error !

@chrisgunsandguitars1403

Ай бұрын

My thoughts are if a hunting rifle only, clean the bore every 20-40 shots. This could take a few seasons; so a patch of light RemOil down the bore after hunting and put her away. Remove the stock if it got wet and address that issue. Rifle should be gone over just like you would a vehicle before a long trip. Check that everything is tight. Then hit the range and check zero. Then don’t clean it until again 20-40 shots. Many rifles can be a little different. Most rifles shoot a little better once a bit fouled. However, your rifle will be cold when you shoot at your deer/elk, so knowing how your rifle shoots cold and fouled is a good thing.

Thank you for sharing all your wisdom I as a new hunter I like to learn from people like you who have experience and you explain well thank you I didn’t know there was a difference being a little lost that’s why it didn’t hit them

Greetings from Australia...thanks for your work on these vids, always helpful.

@backfire Jim, Great channel!! Great advice!!! My gun strings hard after the third shot so that's where's its zeroed. Its a pencil barrel so you have to wait what seems like all day for it to cool all the way. Ive been going through this gun as it had issues which you stated in this video which were affecting the zero along with my shooting it hot. I'll double check three cold shots next time i shoot it as its a hunting rifle and i doubt i will get more than two or even three shots at anything.

Great video Jim. Excellent information, even for experienced shooters.

Ambient temperature and powder temp tend to cause a shift in both velocity and point of impact.

The cold bore subject is really a cool one to dive into to. One thing was missed that I have run into. Action screws miss torqued make a huge difference.

Enjoying the content of your videos from over the pond in the Uk.👍

Thanks for the information regarding light changing the zero

I learned a lot from this informative video, thanks Jim. My comments are in regard to the effect of barrel temperature on the POI: 1. there was no discussion of the effect of barrel temperature on barrel harmonics; 2. there can a very broad range of variation in barrel temperature - which will vary with the barrel material, mass, and surface area - e.g. from ambient temperature, which could be 30 degrees F to > 106 degrees F after 8 shots in my rifle; 3. Eagleye Hunting Gear showed quite a bit of difference among rifles in the change in POI with increasing barrel temperature in a KZread video; 4. It is important to distinguishing between the effect of increasing barrel temperature and fouling with repeated shots. Of course when you're hunting the most important shot is going to be with a cold bore.

Thanks for this video! Keep making more like it! Back to the basics

I always wonder as a white tail hunter isn't the first cold bore shot the most important as usually the first shot after hitting your stand is the most important

Fookin quality content mate you guys just have something no other channel has (no idea what specifically) Bloody love ya work! Would be hella keen to see some reviews on the woox stocks, at least the less common reviewed ones

Good info, makes you realize once you found the right ammo and zero it, there are still things to keep track of👍

Cold bore is a thing, with improperly bedded rifles, but more often is the symptom of barrel fouling. This is why I always maintain my rifles in a range of copper fouling since that will be closer to the normal state in real-world usage.

Suppressors …another thing to go wrong in the bush . Great idea

2:00 Last time at the range, I had this exact thing happen. I was shooting a new barrel and getting decent groups. Then I started noticing my point of impact shift. At first I thought it was just the barrel settling in. Then I was letting the barrel and suppressor cool down between shot strings. I reached up to feel how hot the suppressor was and noticed a tiny bit of play. I re tightened it (maybe a 1/10 of a turn) and then magically my original POI came back to the original spot. I learn this lesson first hand that day. Now I check the suppressor for snugness often

Some really great points in this presentation - some thoughts, the instructors comments on Sun position are real but are a much smaller issue with very good glass and coatings and point of aim being through the centre x hair, (centre glass) but can be well off with on cheaper glass, with fewer coatings and when using large holds well away from the centre of the glass. In my view there is little point to a Christmas tree style reticle with poor glass and coatings (as the error will increase away from the centre of the glass). Good glass, good coatings (and plenty of them) plus relatively simple reticle e.g. 1/2 mil dot is the way to go (in my view).

Its common knowledge that pencil barrels are less accurate and shift after heating up. Heavy barrels are more accurate and have little to no shift after heating up. Three shot group adjust the scope then check and adjust another Day. Patience is a virtue

@jimyeats

Ай бұрын

All things being equal, sure, a pencil barrel will have a higher chance of being less accurate (or precise) than a heavy barrel, but not inherently so. Same with heat, a pencil barrel will have a larger chance of heat opening up the group, but a high quality barrel that is properly stress relieved shouldn’t have a POI shift. So yeah, in common practice you’re correct, but a lot has to do with barrel quality.

@MrMagoo321

Ай бұрын

@@jimyeats this company says their Sporter barrels are expected to produce 1.5" three shot groups at 100 yds. I'm getting 1" cold bore and about 2.5" warm. So as a cold bore it is good enough for me but since it opens up so much when it heats up then it's no good for target only hunting. Makes sense!

@Leonarco333

20 күн бұрын

Traditional pencil barrels are absolutely notorious for shifting zero. I have a stress relieved pencil barrel from criterion that doesn’t. When it gets warm, the group sizes open, but the center doesn’t move. It doesn’t take very many rounds for that to happen either.

@pizzahunter808

14 күн бұрын

Pencils barrels are fine if you have a good barrel like a tikka. Most just aren’t sighting in with a large enough sample size and getting their guns true cone of fire for a true zero. Stop shooting 3 shot groups!

Some good stuff again. Now I have check my guns again. Just when I thought I had all my guns dialed in. Good job Jim makes very good sense. CW

Great video, I may have missed it but I didn't see anything on a fouled barrel vs clean bore, this can cause the first shot fliers.

I remember Johnny’s Reloading bench had a little fan gadget that you put into the chamber and blow air down the bore to speed up cooling the barrel back to “cold” bore status. That helped him speed up the process when trying to fine tune his hand loads.

solid informational video as usual! Ordered some turret tags - what a great idea...that I wish I would have thought of. LOL

Great content as always. I do have a comment on the cold bore discussion. My favorite hunting rifle shoots the cold bore shot 3/4in high and 1/4in right every time. I have shot 1/2moa 5 shot groups by cooling the rifle in-between shots with a barrel fan. Once the rifle is warmed up the group stays tight until round 15ish and then things open up again. I always sight my hunting rifle to "cold bore" zero...... I think it comes back to every rifle having its own little nuances and the only way to be prepared is to put rounds down range. Practice makes perfect!

Excellent and very useful

Great topic. One thing I have always done is have my action bedded and barrel floated and triggers set to the same weight.

I free floated the barrel of my Ruger m77 and bedded the action in the stock because it was shooting wild. Tried all kinds of different torque on the stock screws to no avail. Finally realized it was just a piece of wood and sanded the forend away from the barrel and bedded the action. It really helped the rifle a lot. The variability from shooting from a bipod vs resting on a bag is much less than it was. Will find out next month if i drew an elk tag this year or not. Deer tag for sure.

@Gunrunner223

Ай бұрын

Ive done the same with my 1995 model, Ruger m77 mark II 270. Even with handloads, about 2" inch was as good as it would do. Bedded the stock, floated the barrel, lightened the trigger to 2.2 lbs, played with different torques on the stock screws, and only got it down to 1.25" inch. My theory is, before the Ruger American, savage axis type budget rifles, that shoot deadly accurate, most rifle manufacturers didn't put a lot into accuracy. And rightfully so. Us hunters didn't either. I knew a lot of guys that 3 shots hitting a pie plate at 100, was good to go! Now that budget guns shoot 1/2 moa out the box, those higher end guns have to shoot well also. I've got a new savage 110 timberline in 243win, that with handloads shoots 3/8" all day. And a Heinz 57 AR-15 with a larue tactical 20" barrel in 223 whylde, that shoots better than any bolt gun I've ever even seen shot ! Cold bore will be 3/8" from the next 5, that are all in one hole. Like a 0.2 group. Times are good for accurate rifles.

@brandonbelchersr9496

29 күн бұрын

@@Gunrunner223Have a question if ya don’t mind, So I’m wanting to put a 223 wylde barrel on mine as well, just curious, Did you keep same bolt carrier? Or did you match the barrel with a new bolt? and did you change out your buffer spring, and use a certain weight? Thanks for any info.

@Gunrunner223

28 күн бұрын

@@brandonbelchersr9496 you don't have to change anything. A 223 Wylde, 5.56, or 223 rem, are the same bolt face. I swapped alot of stuff, but to function, the barrel is all you have to change. I highly recommend larue tactical barrels. They have amazing reviews. And I've never seen accuracy like I'm getting. Even bulk brass fmj shoots 1.5 inch groups. Quality factory ammo, shoots 3/4 or better. Every handloads I've tried, from 50gr vmax, 52 eldm, 55 vmax, 55 blitz king, 62 sierra HP, 69 sierra match king, have all shot under 1/2" inch, and most shot 3/8" or better. Never seen anything like it. I did swap my trigger out to a timney $99 single stage 3 lb . My barrel is floated. Hope you find one you like.

@brandonbelchersr9496

28 күн бұрын

@@Gunrunner223 thanks a lot, very well rundown. At least I know now I’m good on everything but my barrel, which will be a larue barrel.👌🏼 Thanks again and have good one..

@Gunrunner223

27 күн бұрын

@@brandonbelchersr9496 absolutely.

nice I was really pumped for this video

Bro at 12:22 in the Video you can see Jesus over your shoulder. I love that Christus statue. That warms my heart. ❤🤍💙

Very informative Jim ! Thank You .. Just read ottokite post and reminded me of a drifting zero on a GA Precision 300 WSM and couldn't figure the culprit until I took the scope off and one of my Premium rings had a hairline stress crack .. Called the company and he told me they had some metallurgy issues with a batch of rings and I returned the ring to them and they sent me a new one ... Back in business ... Hasn't moved again...

Hornady podcast #50 on group size is very interesting. Basically, you should shoot a 10-20 round group and use the center of the group as the center of your zero. and that group should be what you consider your rifle actually capable of.

@jasonshults368

Ай бұрын

10-20 shots? Maybe for Fudds. I use a 750 shot zero.

People may be confusing clean bore vs cold bore. I have had many different rifles and especially mussel loaders that shoot horrible when they are clean. So maybe what some would consider a fouling shot is being blamed on cold bore

Good stuff, great video 👍

great job!!!!👍👍👍

Good info 👍

Cold bore shift is absolutely a real thing, Although it is not necessarily something that is present or significant enough that you will see it in every rifle. I had an Accuracy International rifle in 308 with a night force scope in the night force rings and the first shot out of this gun was consistently in the 7 o’clock position between a half and 1 inch out from the rest of the group. After that first shot, the gun would shoot a half to 5/8 minute five shot group every time. Before I sent it back to Accuracy International for warranty, I had other shooters test the Cold bore. It didn’t matter who shot the gun. It was always in the 7 o’clock position a half inch to 1 inch from the rest of the group. The factory could not figure out the problem or wouldn’t tell me what the problem was. They ended up replacing the gun with an upgraded model.

Great video Jim, good stuff

Jim, you definitely get a 👍. Good video.

I learn3d to purchase double luggage scope rings with tape in the housing. I also use the sun shade as what you said about the light impacting your zero is true.

I had the same issue with the suppressor not tightened all the way. So now I have witness marks to prevent that.

@mrs.vasquezz

Ай бұрын

Just use a good mount system?

@brandon88271

Ай бұрын

@@mrs.vasquezz I'm using Yhm phantom qd it works great when tight all the way.

None of my hunting rifles that were glass bedded had problems with zero shift. The Howa .223 i use would was very fussy with different ammo and would shift at different temperatures. A full action bedding job and now it is far more consistent, even though group size hasn't changed.

Great video!

👍👍👍 great info

Hey Jim, When culling deer, after 2-3 shots we check the mod. Although, it happens you drop 4-8 in one salvo but try to not rush and if possible to keep in mind the heat is building and mod could shift. I am lucky in that my mod never moves when culling.

@williamgaines9784

Ай бұрын

You must use a heat shield/cover on your moderator, or you might regret grabbing it after 4-8 rapid shots.😮🔥

@cypherthepro

Ай бұрын

@@williamgaines9784 it's just wrapped in nice camo tape. It really doesn't happen often. The spigot mods seem worse for it

Great stuff Jim. Pretty interesting stuff.

Regarding cold bore shots, I have a hypothesis in its infancy that I really want to test more. I picked up a garmin chronograph and decided to just chrono everything my buddies and I shoot, along with some other guns we get to use through our job (Bergara b14 and hmr in 6.5 cm, seekins hit 6.5 cm, dmr 556, and sp10 in 308, Marlin trapper 45-70, Christensen ranger 22 lr so far). I noticed the velocity of the first recorded shot was generally one of the closest to the average over 10-20 shots. I want to test this much more before I put any stock into this but perhaps taking a lot of time between shots to allow the rifle to cool would improve zeroing. This would mainly apply to hunting scenarios where having the best zero cold bore is essential, but also developing a dope chart closest to that cold bore shot’s velocity and average velocity would be extremely helpful. But in reality, most people don’t shoot well enough for it to matter, whether it’s abilty to adjust for elevation/wind, ability to create and use a stable position, rifle/optic quality and gear setup, or what I just like to chalk up to fudd lore.

Good job, you covered many potential causes of zero shift. Might want to address mirage causing the image that you see to shift. Usually 1/2-1 moa.

Thinking about cold bore. I’m just an average everyday shooter. I work in a machine shop. I could see a rifle bore changing with temperature. Variables might be material of barrel, thickness of barrel, tempering of barrel, consistency of atmosphere during machining causing a less accurate barrel. Maybe the bore isn’t directly down the center all the way; ie; barrel thickness varies around diameter, the rifling is inconsistent down the barrel. I’m not a gunsmith or anything. Not even a machinist. I just work manufacturing machined parts, some thick some very thin. Some of our parts have 2000 lasered holes .025-.030 diameter. The part changes.

Hahaha love the editing on the sun/light effect on impact

I remember reading a long time ago that you could eliminate "cold bore" shift by breathing into the barrel before the initial shot. If I recall it has to do with the level of moisture in the barrel. I have tried it with my rifle, and it worked for me. Get a straw, and shoot a puff of air or 2 down the barrel prior to first shot and see what happens compared to when you dont.

Very comprehensive testing with outstanding information I have found that the most accurate hunting zero possible is to shoot cold bore groups to establish an average zero Right on good stuff mate

I think that a accuracy test using the same rifle, with different price point rings, would be really interesting.

I have had this problem on one rifle ( light barrel) where the first shot on a clean cold bore the shot is way off. Then it comes reasonable in grouping with subsequent shots. I put this down as the first shot is on a barrel with no lubrication from the powder. The burnt powder does provide lubrication. Barrel walking is also a problem with light barrels.

My muzzle break went loose on me at my NRL comp, I started missing and did a check on my gun and realized my break was all loosy goosy. Tightened it up and was back on.

every savage rifle i have bought new has a ton of oil under the mounting rail. after zeroing, it would shft. removed the rail, cleaned and dried the rail and action, then mount again with loctite. the 338LM 110 even had mounting rail holes that went through to the action into the bolt area. any cleaning fluid used would wick into the hole and loosen the loctite. had to be diligent.

Your group sizes will likely tighten up or spread out with inconsistent suppressor tightness. Just like using a barrel tuner.

What we were taught through training at the S.O's office, is after cleaning the bore of the rifle run a patch through it with a little amount of oil, then run a dry patch through it. That little amount that is left almost mimics the first shot that "dirties the bore. The "cold bore" shot drastically changes the amount of shift.

@McgSpook

Ай бұрын

I'm not sure i would trust that. No way for oil in the barrel to evenly dispersed or take the place of copper. Even after a good cleaning my last step is alcohol patches to remove every bit of solvent and cleaner that may have been left behind. Even a foul bore is still shifting until its gets enough rounds down it to lay in some copper. I wont trust it to stay stable until at least 5-10 rounds. Personally believe what most people think of as cold bore is kinda what you are explaining. The temperature of the bore means very little, the condition of the rifling means a lot. A "cold" bore that is fouled should not drastically change anything. ymmv

5:32; there's a huge difference between "not tiny little groups", and having a target that looks like you were using a shotgun

Not sure if it applies to centerfire but if i remember right there was a couple people that proved the "cold bore" shift in 22lr was moisture related. They could do a breath of air through a straw into the chamber and down the barrel and the shift was gone. I think Josh on pursuit of accuracy had a video on it. I think some of the center fire shift is cold shooter and positioning of youre face and eye behind the scope

This might sound stupid but aging of the fouling in the bore can do it too. Even if that fouling is just the oil after cleaning. The carbon absorbs water, the copper oxidizes, the oil evaporates.

In my experience, there IS a different in bullet impact between a cold barrel and a hot barrel, but unless you’re using the same rifle for hunting and competition, most people won’t be able to tell a difference out to about 300 yards (give or take depending on the caliber, MV, bullet weight, etc.). I don’t shoot competitively now, but in the past I’ve always used the cold bore method of zeroing for my hunting rifles and shooting various amounts of rounds at a time for competition rifles. Of course, barrel weight and thickness, action type, and action quality all have an effect on this. In conclusion (as with most things shooting), how much a cold bore vs hot bore zero varies greatly depends on a multitude of factors and there really isn’t one right answer.

Here in Norway, we have mandatory practice shots. Minimum 30 of them spread over atleast 2 days before we have a practical shooting "exam". Every year. 5 outta 5 shots have to be inside killzone on a reindeer target. If we have problems zeroing in, we get help from our friendly neighbourhood gun and hunting guru ( he got 64 years of hunting experience and hangs on the shooting range every week )

It’s mostly shooter input that makes groups open or zeros to appear to wander on a great rifle. Also atmospheric pressure, wind, temperature and humidity will affect the zero. Ammo is also not perfect. It is impossible for a human to put the exact amount of pressure on the cheek weld, same pressure on your shoulder, or your grip, much less trigger pressure. You can have a 1 lb trigger and crack it at 1 lb or 4 lbs. Then as he said your eye can be a touch off of center up, down, left or right. Most people don’t shoot nearly enough of conscientious practice to be remotely good enough to wring out a great rifle’s accuracy.

For a hunting rifle I really believe in establishing a cold bore zero. What was the shot spacing on the shots. Maybe use a laser thermometer and record the barrel temp for each shot. From what I have read cold bore variation can be affected by the barrel manufacturing process and stress relieving the barrel.

@McgSpook

Ай бұрын

There used to be a big thing where people were doing cryo treatment to barrels to relieve the stress. Never see it anymore so I guess it wasnt an issue. My little devil on shoulder tells me that what people are really seeing is cheap or poorly made barrels doing what they do. Someone like Remington or Winchester just never has time to do what a good gunsmith will do. So they have slop and runout issues galore.

I agree with everything you said , however your zero is only great if when you shoot after zeroing the external variables / day time conditions are identical from whe you zeroed the rifle . I always zero then go hunting . Bullet impact is different even with season or temperature change .

Good fundamentals.

As with the suppressor this affects PCP air rifles just the same. Either you hunt with or without.

Cold bore shift is real. A primary cause comes down to how the barrel is made. As steel is being forged and shaped, it can build up internal stresses where different grain patches in the steel want to naturally flex some direction. If the steel isn't properly stress relieved, the barrel will bend itself one way or another when it heats up. The hotter and thinner the barrel, the easier it is for the internal stresses to flex it. The stories of early M16s shifting zero as they heated up are at least partly true because metallurgical processes have advanced greatly in the last 60 years. A barrel that was properly stress relieved during manufacturing should have minimal shift as it heats up, if any at all. But it's also important to remember that your groups will always open up as the barrel gets hot. Lightweight hunting rifles, those with thin sporter barrels, can start opening up after only a couple shots. I had a Creedmoor that could place the first two shots relatively close, but couldn't hold better than a 3" group if you fired more than three rounds in five minutes. So it's possible what one person thinks is cold bore shift is really just the barrel quickly getting hot and the opening up.

In my opinion, using a hard case, people usually put the gun in upside down. When they pick the case up by the handle, the gun is carried upside down. The weight of the gun is weighing down on the scope. I dont know if that could change impact or not.

Your rifle's zero will always wander...I'm quite surprised you don’t know this. Theres so much which affects your zero - Light, temperature, time of the day, shooting position ext. Thats why when we shoot a match, we always zero beforehand, even on our home range where the rifle is sighted in. Sometimes you are lucky and the zero hasn’t changed, but most of the time there is a click or two adjustment to make.

I have a very accurate .22. I too have observed this group shift in impact due to position change.

I have found that, usually, what people call cold bore shots end up being *clean bore* shots. There is some aspect of their cleaning regimen (and, either alternatively or additionally, the barrel is sensitive to fouling) that makes the first, or first couple shots, different from the rest. After that, I would say that it's something you already touched on - the person's rest settling in, and it's affecting the shooting system (rifle and shooter) as a whole. From there, the onus goes more and more on the shooter, to all the other various points you talked about: parallax, the shooter settling in, etcetera. Another thing I'll toss in, although this isn't strictly cold bore related, I've seen instances where people who take too long to shoot experience point of impact shifts --- after firing several rounds, they leave the round to 'cook' inside the chamber, which can affect the combustion of the components and effect ballistics. I mention this not only because it's POI related, but also it touches on another subject you mentioned: environments. Beyond those broad elements of weather conditions and shooter/system error, it takes... something special for cold bore shots to be an actual, legit thing. We're in the day and age where manufacturing, design, and quality are pretty darn good, and you basically need *something wrong* to have cold bore shots. Thanks for doing this video.

A quick trick a friend of mine told me was to use nail polish around the screw heads. every time I take the gun out, I now look at the rings and the pic mounts for the nail polish to be intact, if something moves, the polish will be cracked.

@Nomorehandlenames9230

8 күн бұрын

I use clear nail polish to lock my screws down instead of locktite. This is a good idea though.

@bigsense7866

3 сағат бұрын

They are called witness marks, we did it to everything in the ARMY that could move, and affect function.

Tell us about the Eliminator 6! That scope has evolved quite a bit over the years, this new model looks great

May I suggest locating your rifle in the hard case with the scope closest to the handle. The rifle will then take the weight as you carry it and when you set it down.

Great video mane! 🤙😎

Your brave. Baffle strikes occur when your suppressor is loose.

Hello from Canada! Could you do a video on SCOPE RINGS alone? I find quite a difference between various rings, some close nicely around the circumference of the scope, while others have a slight gap even though they have been tightened to the recommended torque. I wonder when we get a large temperature shift, if the scope could then move under recoil. I shoot a custom 375 H&H magnum as it has been my favourite cartridge for 40 years. Between the several sets of rings I have, the ones that do end up with a slight gap always seem to be the least consisted and I’m not really sure why. The last time I used such rings was three years ago. The rifle had been zeroed with a new Whitworth barrel installed into the Mauser action ( also new). I took it hunting that fall ( within two weeks of zero) and also took a few test shots after the fly-in. Second day of moose hunting, a hot fall day and an easy 300 yard shot presented with no crosswind at all. I took the shot using a rest, and while it was still a decent hit, it was a fair bit forward and high. Later after recovering the animal, I shot another 200 yd group at the camp after the hunt only to find my zero had shifted three inches left and two inches high. After returning home, I changed out the rings and have not had the same isssue since. I knew it wasn’t the optic, I knew it wasn’t me, as I’ve put thousands of rounds of .375 down range over the decades and I’m very comfortable with the recoil of the rifle which fits me very well. I’d love to hear your opinion on rings, how you set them up, and your experiences. Cheers.

Expert advice for those of us who are new to shooting. I feel like I stumbled upon gold with this one.

Cold bore that’s more than 1/2 moa is barrel that’s not made right, had a bergara HMR that they warranties and replaced the barrel for me. It was shifting 6 inches from cold bore over a 4-5 rd shot string

One thing you missed mentioning is a clean gun. My first two or three a lot of times aren’t true if I just grab a clean rifle out of the safe that’s been sitting a while. I have found some lighter fluid on a few patches before shooting to get oil out tightens things up though

I’ve got levels on all my rifles, not having a level will probably be the main reason groups change place, it also explains horizontal stringing (other than wind). Try getting your gun set up horizontally and vertically when the landscape slopes, you have no chance because it’s impossible to see your cant. Cold bore shots in my experience tend to be shooter error, dry fire your rifle 2 or 3 times before the shot you will see your error and see it improve from shot to shot without the recoil of a live round.

I would say ammo if you're using ANY factory ammo. The light thing I definitely agree with, experienced it myself. Cold bore for me depended on how I cleaned my barrel. My cold bore shots are spot on now. BTW, I'm shooting a gas gun in 600yd F-TR and do pretty well with it.

That shift with a loose suppressor is wild 😮