Great video Davey! You are right on the money here. Pretty nuts that both Jon and Dennis both were essentially booted from the bands they each founded! Insane. I love your comments about the original chemistry…almost always the case. We can discuss more Van Halen shortly!! 😂

@daveycretin664

Ай бұрын

Thanks, Tom! I appreciate it. Looking forward to our convo soon about Rothy & da boyz!

Why do think that was? Better Lawyers? I never understood how Dennis lost that case.

@daveycretin664

Ай бұрын

I’m not sure since I’m not a lawyer, but l have a theory. Thinking about it logically, maybe it’s just the fact that the band named Styx toured. In the band - at the time - were three members from their “golden period,” JY, Tommy Shaw and Chuck Panozzo. Two songwriters and one cofounder. On the other side was DDY, a cofounder of the band and key songwriter. Maybe the judge who adjudicated the case simply saw it as three against one. Therefore the judge ruled with the majority. Or, as you postulated, JY and TS just had better - maybe even sneakier - lawyers. We’ll never know… well, until DDY writes his autobiography. Thanks for watching and commenting!

This was fantastic. I really enjoyed this. Thank you

Yes and Styx should do what the real fans who made them rich want ...a reunion but us fans are nobody's to them, where would Howe and Shaw be without Anderson and DeYoung.

All you said is what is true. I feel the same way

Yes has lots of parallels, but it is a bit more complicated, the original band member that kept it going was squire, Anderson left yes twice before he had touring issues. Yes had many pieces that have contributed to making songs. Jon A. was in good shape this spring, and found a new band to sing with currently.

Just found out about Cretin Classics today. Right up my alley. Will there perhaps be anything about Jethro Tull?

That's not entirely what happened. JY and Tommy tried to work with DeYoung, telling him they would get a temporary replacement, when he wasn't feeling well. And when Dennis was better, he could perform again. DDY didn't start his mini tours until 2002. So Styx would have had to wait 3 more years, and even then DeYoung wouldn't do any more big tours. So what, the guys are supposed to not have a livelihood because Dennis says "no"? DeYoung can't even tour anymore now. They wouldn't be making any albums if Dennis was still in the band. They would have broken up for good. DDY told them they couldn't tour without him in the band, and THAT'S WHY they fired him. Personally, I believe "Brave New World" is a pretty good album, minus most of DeYoung's tunes. Styx isn't just Dennis's band. The name itself was on a list that Wooden Nickel gave the guys. They all agreed on 'Styx'. It has nothing to do with money for the guys in Styx. They just want to perform live, and DeYoung can't do it...

@daveycretin664

Ай бұрын

Reports and accounts vary, I’m just giving my opinion. I respect and welcome other’s thoughts and opinions on the matter as well. After all, we enjoy the music of our favorite bands, perhaps though we may align with one specific time period in an artist’s catalog over another part. Oddly enough, Mr. DeYoung did play a full headlining show in the year 2000 with his own band. It was a 20 song set show, plus an instrumental opening section. That slightly contradicts your 2002 start time for his solo tour itinerary. Granted, this was a one off; perhaps he was still not healthy enough to take on a whole, long tour. The heart of the matter is that there is just a personality clash here and apparently both parties are better off separately. Much like Deep Purple without Ritchie Blackmore, not everyone can get along. Additionally, some fans like the fact that they see - and hear - two different versions of the band. Conversely, certain fans remain firmly in the Styx camp or the Dennis DeYoung camp. Thanks for watching and voicing your thoughts. Cheers! Oops, one other thing l forgot to mention is that DDY didn’t sue the band until they badmouthed him in a few different interviews. Going back to the Damn Yankees era, TS seemed to have a habit of let’s say “poking the bear.” DeYoung never really insulted his former band mates until his most recent post, some might say. And he did it more in a way of saying, “Thanks for finally admitting that l wrote some decent songs that you may have slagged off before.”

@Deborahtunes

Ай бұрын

@@daveycretin664 ~ One concert does not a tour make. That's what I'm meaning, a full tour. And I'm not talking about one of his mini tours of 35 days either. Dennis was only performing every 2nd and 3rd weekends. Meanwhile Styx is performing 90 to 120 days a year. DeYoung couldn't handle a full tour...

@daveycretin664

Ай бұрын

@@Deborahtunes ~ You are correct in stating that one show is not a full tour. DeYoung never really enjoyed touring as much as JY and Shaw, much like Jeff Lynne in ELO. Some cats are just better built for the road; physically, mentally and emotionally. Unfortunately, their differences of opinion date back to 1979. Dennis was quietly fired from the band - or left on his own, I can’t recall - before reconvening with the band about six weeks later. Since this was way before the internet, no one knew about until decades later.

@Deborahtunes

Ай бұрын

@@daveycretin664 ~ I'm aware of DeYoung's firing back then. I've been following the band since the late 70's. I also own a lot of Styx memorabilia, including Chuck's book, and a 1984 letter from Tommy Shaw. They've been my favorite band ever since my mother brought home "Pieces Of Eight" on 8-track. But I've listened to them since "Lady" became a "hit"...

@daveycretin664

Ай бұрын

@@Deborahtunes ~ 1977 for me when l first heard “Come Sail Away” on FM radio. First tour was Paradise Theatre and I’ve seen them tour every studio album since then - at least once - except for Crash of the Crown.

Some bands need a "Little Napoleon" that has the vision to steer the band. Yes needs theirs. Some people like to use Drama as the example of how Yes doesn't need Jon Anderson, but that was a young band with lots of fire in their bellies (and they had a visionary - Trevor Horn). I don't think the TH version of Yes had much potential - TH would have moved on to his next thing. The issue with Yes' albums with Jon Davison is that they are too gentle. People think of Jon Anderson as this little pixie with a high voice, but what they forget is that JA can sing rock music. Jon Davison can't. Nobody ever wants to say anything bad about Chris Squire (myself included), but he was the main person responsible for the decisions that ultimately kept JA out of Yes. Steve Howe could fix it, but he has decided not to. He's wrong. As far as Styx is concerned, Dennis DeYoung should never have lost that lawsuit. The current Styx puts on a GREAT show, but for 25 years they have had NO VISION. Crash Of The Crown is a decent album, but it's directionless. The title doesn't mean anything and it just feels like pieces of ideas to me. This is an unpopular opinion, but I think The Mission is worse. It's a (weak) concept album that has no GREAT songs. Here's my question for supporters of the current Styx as a creative unit - what is Lawrence Gowan's signature song with Styx? I'll wait.⌚ What complicates the issue with these two bands is that Jon Anderson and Dennis DeYoung are flaky eccentrics who are demanding and bossy and in the case of DeYoung, never shuts TF up. I understand how the other members could look at each other and say "What if HE wasn't here?" But, that doesn't make it a good idea.

@jasonalbright7058

Ай бұрын

Jon Anderson can be as fussy as he wants in 2024 when it comes to Yes because Howe wasn’t even a founding member and his mimmicky replacement flouncing around posing like Anderson is an embarrassment.

@Thomasmemoryscentral

Ай бұрын

​@@jasonalbright7058According to Peter Banks the original Yes Guitarist in a 2007 interview, Trevor Rabin asked if he can join them at a reunion show. Banks sounded pleased and just requested they just leave an extra guitar up there for him. Backstage however, he then found out from Rabin again that Hiwe said no and blocked the idea of Peter joining them on stage. Rightfully frustrated, Banks took to the arena bar to drink in frustration

@jasonalbright7058

Ай бұрын

@@Thomasmemoryscentral I believe that story 100%.

@Thomasmemoryscentral

Ай бұрын

@@jasonalbright7058 Peter Bank’s interview is online here and you can hear it straight from him

A really interesting parallel. I am a life long Yes fan and like many ,I lost interest after Anderson left. A damned shame that this group kind of killed the vibe for fans with internal fighting. Never really latched on to Styx. I would like to see Anderson with his current band if possible.

@daveycretin664

Ай бұрын

Thanks for watching and commenting. Ego, money, fame, it’s a tough road to hoe. And sometimes it’s extremely difficult working with other people who just alienate the heck out of you! I wasn’t besties with everyone l ever played with, for the decade plus l did it. But, l always tried to make the best of things for the betterment of the group as a whole. And l was in a small potatoes local tribute act. I’m sure it’s exponentially harder on a national - and worldwide - level! Cheers, PeteRock!

@peterock4210

Ай бұрын

@@daveycretin664 Ramones tribute? Sorry I never saw your band. I saw Ramones a ton and had a friend whose sister married Dee Dee😂😂. I didn’t get a wedding invite😂

@daveycretin664

Ай бұрын

@@peterock4210 ~ As Jack Toledano loves to say, “Too funny. That’s too funny.” Was it Dee Dee’s marriage to 🎵”Vera (Gemini?)”🎵

@peterock4210

Ай бұрын

@@daveycretin664 Yes , I worked with Vera’s brother for a few years. Working late one night (1988?) we called DRE or LIR radio ( forgot which one) to get Dee Dee’s latest single to be the pick of the week. The radio station was not happy and kept hanging up on us.😂

@daveycretin664

Ай бұрын

@@peterock4210 ~ From his Standing in the Spotlight solo album? Despite people trashing that record for decades, there are some decent non-rap songs on there.

Nice honest take here. Never was a follower of Yes or Styx, but like to hear from those who follow bands that I don't, as there is a kinship between fans, even if they aren't always talking about the same one. Peace, CC 🐈

Just saw Jon with the Band Geeks on 6/20 in Hershey and it was great show. Will be seeing Yes in September and will be interesting to see how they compare..It's going to be tough act to beat

Good rant. Thanks. Totally agree. 😊

Same thing happened to Steve Perry in Journey. I know, not a founder but the member who elevated them. Replaced by Steve Augeri.

❤❤❤

@daveycretin664

Ай бұрын

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Mr. Scot, much obliged good sir! 🎵Threshy’s comin’ ‘round the mountain, when she comes. Threshy’s comin’ round the mountain, when she comes.🎵 🎵”Mountains come out of the sky / And they stand there!”🎵

@TheProgCorner

Ай бұрын

@@daveycretin664 Yeah!!!!

With respect to Styx, I would say their issues came down to a clash of egos and a struggle for who wanted to be in the driver's seat for the band. As you mentioned here, Shaw and Young are "road dogs" and like to be out on tour performing. It's been said that DeYoung on the other hand doesn't like to tour or not tour as much as his now former band mates. The truth is that DeYoung has a different philosophy on touring then his former band mates. He believes that you should only tour when you have something new to offer the audience. That constant touring just dilutes things. Personally, I have seen the current version of the band as well as DeYoung's solo band performing the music of Styx. They both put on great shows but it isn't like the days of the "classic lineup" as people tend to refer to. Neither are the real deal. I get the impression that the current version of Styx is more so the Tommy Shaw band under the Styx umbrella. This is due to the fact that the bulk of new material that has been on their most recent albums were written by Shaw and his long time writing partner Will E. Will also has become the band's producer and "music director". James "JY' Young isn't interested in creating new material as Shaw is. It would be good for the band's legacy if something was put together where the classic line up would perform together one final time. That said it seems DeYoung's former band mates have zero interest in doing so. Which is sad.

I can see why DeYoung is out. But why Anderson is out makes no sense.

@daveycretin664

Ай бұрын

Boys that are too rough and tumble to play nicely together in the sandbox. As Steve Howe often says, “Thank you. Thank you so much.”

Interesting comparison. Not much into Styx, myself, but as a die-hard Yes fan, I have my own thoughts regarding their ever-shifting lineups. I agree that, at least from what we can tell, Jon wasn't treated well during his illness and exit from the band. And you are right that the original chemistry is what made those bands special. But as you also noted, Steve Howe isn't an original member, and the Yes chemistry produced much better output once he replaced Banks. Alan and Bill are completely different drummers, and the chemistry was different. But albums like Relayer and Going for the One are brilliant. And as for Jon, as much as I love Yes with him, Drama is one of my favorite Yes albums. Yes always seemed to be defined by the perpetual change (yes, pun intended), and some times those changes created brilliance. Other times, mediocrity. I agree, Mirror to the Sky is superior to The Quest, and I'm glad they're being productive. I do think that Jon's new single, "Shine," has more life to it than most of official Yes output. And that was the case for the ARW tour. I saw both Yes and ARW and ARW was just more energetic. However, the official Yes lineup is more willing to play a varied set of music across the Yes catalog than Jon is. So, I saw that, in a way, as a best of both worlds (Van Halen pun not intended, simply incidental). Regardless, looking forward to the new Jon album, but I do think the cover is cheesy. But back to the chemistry thing... there also is likely a shelf-life on that. Perhaps Jon's chemistry with the Band Geeks is greater than what he could produce with Steve Howe at this point. That said, it would be interested to finally see Jon and Geoff Downes in Yes together, along with Steve, Billy, and Jay. Not that I'd want to kick Jon Davison out, I mean, he seems to be a pretty nice guy. Okay, I'm digressing here...

Both Dennis and JonA can be real aholes.

@jasonalbright7058

Ай бұрын

Sure they can but without them the bands just aren’t the same. Plenty of bands perform without ever speaking to each other offstage. No different than a baseball team or football team. On field and off field don’t matter.

@jasonalbright7058

Ай бұрын

Howe is an A hole most of the time. Seems like a perfect match.