If we want to talk about colonialism and post colonialism perhaps we should remember the Arab and Turkish empires which dominated the Middle East and large parts of South Eastern Europe for centuries. And we should remember the Christian and Jewish communities who were present in large numbers long before any Muslims came along. Who today remembers the Armenians who lived in Turkey for example?

@CochinKerala

7 ай бұрын

\slamic colonialism in the 7th century under the Rashidun Caliphate is the root cause of the current situation. Ironically no one wants to talk about colonialism under \slam.

@b.alexanderjohnstone9774

7 ай бұрын

That'd be a compelling point if it was really about colonisation and not anti-British and English speaking world. We are 'decolonising' the curriculum while China is literally colonising parts of Africa and the Pacific.

@b.alexanderjohnstone9774

7 ай бұрын

If it was about colonisation one might start with the Belgians or pretty much any one else before eventually getting to Britain well down the list. Same with slavery. It's about tearing down western and especially English speaking culture, history and legitimacy, IMO.

@CochinKerala

7 ай бұрын

​@@bl4531That shows how much they know about the things which happened down the centuries of \slamic colonialism.

@RojaJaneman

7 ай бұрын

At least they’re beginning to talk about d reality. Colonialism, based on d two dessert cults is d root cause of all of this.

That no one is prancing the streets of the world asking for the return of the people kidnapped by Hamas is what is really disturbing

@liannebenn2097

7 ай бұрын

Even when their pictures are ripped up the police stand back and allow it. They stop people on the side of good from talking.

@hilarymeyerov2934

7 ай бұрын

It is a reflection of how ill and sick the world is

@Treejus

4 ай бұрын

There is no western military support of Hamas. the bombs being dropped on Palestinian tower blocks are primarily American made.

European and Brit politicians have to appease their ever increasing \slamic electorate. The influence of the \slamic population in Europe is not to be underestimated. And then there is the Billions in Qatari money in England and on the continent which ring in the pockets of political parties and corporate entities.

@neuralwarp

7 ай бұрын

They don't ^have^ to. Personally, a politician who behaves morally is more appealing to me, and I belong to the downtrodden majority.

@CochinKerala

7 ай бұрын

​​@@neuralwarp Such a politician is an extinct species in today's political jungle.

@wendyandrew3707

7 ай бұрын

Saudi money for mosques and trained, visiting imams keeping muslims glued to each other in the umma and up to date on Islamic affairs and politics.

@moraymac2922

7 ай бұрын

Good!!!!

Because in the UK we have let foreign money , mainly Saudi money into the pot too much and it has compromised us .

@neuralwarp

7 ай бұрын

It has compromised our politicians.

@davidlythgoe4079

7 ай бұрын

@neuralwarp Well, considering we have hundreds of questionable Wahhabist Mosques everywhere, I would say it hasn't just compromised our political landscape on both sides of the fence , it is and has changed so much about this country for the worse .My point is that even with some amazing 5 star PM in the hot seat , what could he actually do ? The issue is far beyond the pale. Look at our streets .We are compromised.

It is the silent majority that is supporting Israel in the west, you are certainly not alone. I know no one in London who supports a ceasefire until all hostages are returned, and know no one who supports the idiots marching around our fair city.

@JeremyKu

7 ай бұрын

Too bad they're silent...

@peterdowney1492

7 ай бұрын

If they're silent how in the name of anything would you know? Nevertheloess, Cockney, I can give you some names - Biden, Sunak, Ursula von der Leyen, GBNews, TalkTV. Need I go on? By the way they all have quite a bit of traction. Silent majority? Do me a favour?

@user-bo2nm6ne2p

6 ай бұрын

Do you mean the silent racists? How about you are wrong. People don't like women and children and babies being murdered.

@user-bo2nm6ne2p

6 ай бұрын

​@@peterdowney1492GB News😂 Yeah, Darren Grimes and Julie Burchill are racists cheering on genocide.

Because we're overrun with a certain religious element at all levels, from business and government all the way down to people at bus stops

@lordbendtner9328

7 ай бұрын

Found the nazi

@garyb455

7 ай бұрын

This Islam terrorism goes back before the birth of Israel. The Muslim Brotherhood an organisation before the 1930s were preaching for the killing of Jews they even joined up with Hitler and the Nazis. They had a Muslim SS Squad in the German Army whose sole purpose was the killing of Jews. Nothing has changed they still want to exterminate all the Jews. So if you support Hamas you also support the ideology of the Nazis.

Not a British flag in sight, what does that tell you about these people?

@BlackWolf6420

7 ай бұрын

That they are not British??

@jannyjan90

7 ай бұрын

That the protest isn't about Britain???

@meisievannancy

6 ай бұрын

Islamonazis. The plo flag is the same as the swastika.

@jannyjan90

6 ай бұрын

​@@meisievannancyand what makes you believe that??

@meisievannancy

6 ай бұрын

@@jannyjan90 I don't believe it, it is their declared intent. Originating from the plo but used by the PA and representing from the river to the sea as "Palestine" and whose goal is to exterminate jews. Abbas sees the grand mufti as his hero whose goal is that. The goal is worldwide domination by this evil ideology carefully disguised at present to be victims. The goal is to dominate.

Moral cowardice, jealousy, and greed. Those who walk in the dark hate those who walk in the light. There is a chasm of lies between them.

I’m British but moved to the US 35 years ago. I have been completely shocked by the news media in UK being so biased, and to see how low they have fallen in ethics, morality, and just common sense, neutral but fact based reporting. It’s not the Britain I remember. The UK government have allowed in mass migration of people who never had any intention of integrating into British society or culture. And many of these migrants now hold powerful positions in the UK. I always considered myself a left leaning moderate, but definitely don’t believe in wokeism. We seem to have extremists on both sides of the political spectrum these days. There have been a lot of sinister things going on in social media, with people at the top trying to control the narrative, by suppressing criticism and free speech. I believe the silent majority of native Brits truly support Israel, however, why are they silent? The police arrested one man for carrying the union flag who supported Israel, another for carrying the England flag, because they might upset the pro Palestinian protesters???!!! WTH??!! And an English woman was arrested for silently praying. What kind of madness is this?! Why don’t the British people pick up their nations flags, organize a humongous protest in support of Israel and against Islamist extremism? Don’t stay silent! It’s sending the wrong message. You need to take your country back.

@artemisjuno

7 ай бұрын

I agree but we have no leaders to organise mass demonstrations. Trade unions should be the ones to do so but they are given over to the left.

@1Thedairy

7 ай бұрын

It’s a difficult line to tread as freedom of speech means freedom to offend. The police have a really tough job in not inflaming tensions on both sides. Also we have to listen to both sides of the debate. This doesn’t mean we are insensitive to the Israeli stance but neither are we insensitive to the innocent Palestinians civilians who never supported Hamas.

@TheMrClutchy

7 ай бұрын

It’s always noticeable that you yanks ignore what’s happening in your own nation.

@lauralott2741

6 ай бұрын

The Gazan people voted Hamas in to govern them.

The Prime Minister has deployed UK military to the Eastern Mediterranean to support Israel

@MrLoftusjj3

7 ай бұрын

One ship 🤣🤣😂😂🤣🤣

@asnowman8094

7 ай бұрын

@@MrLoftusjj3 What help do they need? I'd see this as similar to when the IRA were attacking Britain. Israel is being asked to differentiate between the terrorists and the civilians. (As things stand the Israeli response would be akin to Britain having used missiles and bombers to hit back at the IRA accepting civilians casualties)

@graveperil2169

7 ай бұрын

@@asnowman8094 the IRA was not the government of the ROI, if the ROI army has crossed the boarder killed 1k+ raped and tortured them then taken hundred of hostages the Britain would be invading ROI

@pincermovement72

7 ай бұрын

Pity they don’t show the same interest in our borders and kids being groomed

@liannebenn2097

7 ай бұрын

@@asnowman8094 Did the IRA specifically build their headquarters under hospitals and schools? Did they build tunnels under N. Ireland to hide like mice and launch attacks whilst they use their own civilian casualties for propaganda? Israel suffers bombings and terrorist attacks all the time but when the penny drops that you are in a war for survival you look after your own first. Kidnapped babies and hundreds of children burned alive and killed make the IRA leaders look charitable. I would like to see any other country sit back like Israel does whilst rockets are fired at it. Then the lefties get angry because Israel has bomb shelters and iron dome and has evacuated the north and south of the country and protects its citizens so the no. of their dead isn't 'proportional'. Anything is proportional until the hostages are released. I am sad for children born into the hell of Hamas death cult. Their Muslim brothers should be caring for them instead of using them for propaganda.

5 Questions: 1. How many Jews live in Palestine or elsewhere in the Arab world? 2. What rights are those Jews afforded in the Arab world? 3. How many Arabs or other minorities live in Israel and of these, how many have held prominent positions in business, finance, politics, sports? Is there an equivalent that exists for minorities in the Arab world? 4. Can a Jew in Israel convert to Islam and continue to have legal right as an Israeli citizen? 5. Is the same 'freedom of religion' available to Palestinians in Gaza or Arabs in the Arab world?

@themsmloveswar3985

7 ай бұрын

6. The Richard Dawkins punchline question "what is the punishment for somebody born into Islam, to leave the cult ?" Answer - death, according to Sharia.

Last I checked, there were two US carrier groups off the coast and a British naval force too. That seems like support to me.

@jannyjan90

7 ай бұрын

Also last I checked many of the western leaders were fully in support of the idea that "Israel has a right to defend itself" ...if that's not support then what support WILL be enough We can not simply ignore that Israel has also done some bad things just because they won't like it

@FMJIRISH

7 ай бұрын

@@jannyjan90 Don't think it's a matter of Israel doing bad things. If Western leaders didn't support Israel in this, it would be ringing the dinner bell.

Because since l was born There has been a reoccurring news story of illegal occupation and Israeli tanks against kids with slingshots. Thats what l remember even if it not the whole story. It was the uk media narrative.

To be fair, I don't think the response to a modern 9/11 in America would be the same globally. I think the left would show solidarity with the attackers, including (maybe most especially) the American left. So it's unfair to compare this to 9/11 in my opinion. Very different times. The left has morphed into a much more monstrous state of anti-civilization and pro-anything that isn't white (and yes, the apply the logic of anti-white hate to Jews in Israel, too, since they see them as "colonizers"). What you're seeing with the left's reaction is not a Jew/Muslim issue. It's a part of a broader ideology. These same leftists now openly excuse and/or cheer mass shootings against Christians in America, mass church burnings, and mass anti-white violence in the west.

@Geo65582

7 ай бұрын

100% exactly the same in the UK with the left

@just_another32

7 ай бұрын

good point - the world has changed a lot since then.

@lotyg5036

7 ай бұрын

Agree. Extremists sick people . Don’t let your country get ruined

@garyb455

7 ай бұрын

This Islam terrorism goes back before the birth of Israel. The Muslim Brotherhood an organisation before the 1930s were preaching for the killing of Jews they even joined up with Hitler and the Nazis. They had a Muslim SS Squad in the German Army whose sole purpose was the killing of Jews. Nothing has changed they still want to exterminate all the Jews. So if you support Hamas you also support the ideology of the Nazis.

@ads13924

7 ай бұрын

Nah I disagree

The solidarity with Hamas is disgusting.

Stay out of it. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

BB Netanyahu just called the Palestinians for Amalek. A nation which the bible says was genocided by Israel.

Because they’re scared.

There is a lot of support for Israel. Don’t downplay it.

@jannyjan90

7 ай бұрын

thank you!!! i saw the title and geniunely was confused because politically the west is almost wholly in support of Israel and to suggest otherwise is crazy. We have politicians hanging themselves (politically) to show their support for Israel But this is where the Zionist idiology looses people.. if you do not 100% support Israel and if you suggest that they have aslo done bad things then you are not showing your support at all.

Presumably you mean "Europe" since the US is doing plenty to support Israel.

@SvalbardSleeperDistrict

7 ай бұрын

The Europe of von der Leyen, who expressed wholehearted condemnation of Russia targeting civilian infrastructure in Ukraine but has nothing to say about Israel doing the same in Gaza?

There had never been more financial support for Israel from the West than today. This headline is the exact opposite of reality

this is incredibly selective. Every major western politician said they stand with Israel!

@BonusHole

7 ай бұрын

But every Wester Muslim stands with Hamas. That's the problem.

@hansiesma16

7 ай бұрын

And they are all calling for a ceasefire when all of them would retaliate as they saw fit if the tables were turned. British society has always seemed pro Palestine for some reason.

@jannyjan90

7 ай бұрын

@@BonusHole No.. they stand with Palestine .. that is NOT the same thing. And to say that they are is to be as ignorant as the person who says that the west hasn't shown its solidarity with Israel. Most western politicians have shown their support for Israel and ignore what they do. There are relitively small number who support Hamas but the vast vast majority condem what Hamas did but understand why thy did what they did and support the right of Palestine to exist without the control of Israel

@BonusHole

7 ай бұрын

You don't speak on behalf of anyone but yourself. Egomaniac.@@jannyjan90

Excellent from Yascha Mounk. Spectator team might want to rethink the intro and outro musak though 😂 Spectacularly jarring given the content of the discussion

Very good information !Unfortunately it’s a bit intellectual. at times. Like zero-sum game..,

West invented international law so...

@CochinKerala

7 ай бұрын

And yet today they can't enforce their own national laws.

@beecat9951

7 ай бұрын

And Hamas broke it when they slaughtered 1400 civilians and held 200 more hostage

@christinerussell113

7 ай бұрын

And? You talk of law, which many nations who, while rarely abiding by the rules of said international law, are happy to make use of it when it suits them. In the same way, too many out on the streets of Western cities use our democratic principles, that openness, tolerance and defence of free speech for all, which we believe in, to spout hatred. They support an Islamic terrorist group, whose ideology has no time for such niceties, one which instead would happily destroy all who do not submit to their medieval, male dominated, religious dogma.

@benqurayza7872

7 ай бұрын

Nu?

vice versa

The Far Right or Far Right wing views in the Islam is pretty mainstream. The Far Right in the West and democracy are pretty fringe.

Definitive on Islam 1) David Wood 2) Apostate Prophet 3) Sam Harris 4) Christopher Hitchens 5) Douglas Murray 6) Robert Spencer 7) Bill Warner 8) Ayan hirsi Ali

I don't think 'intersectionality' guided a Jewish prof at a Hebrew University in Israel to describe Gaza as the largest concentration camp in the world. From the outset this seems like a degrading attempt to intellectualise constant tragedy.

@o00nemesis00o

7 ай бұрын

Was that Finkelstein, or was it some other deluded tweep? Yeah we can tell Gaza is a concentration camp because their phones are a couple of generations old. Boo hoo?

Does Israel Support the West?

@GodsOwnPrototype

7 ай бұрын

Apparently ethnicly foreign & hostile populations are not for Israel to have but they're happy to ship them to Europe.

@CochinKerala

7 ай бұрын

When did Israel ship anyone to Europe? Europe is an open door, anyone can simply walk in.

@GodsOwnPrototype

7 ай бұрын

Also, when I hear intellectuals like Noel Ignatiev talk about my people, it certainly raises interesting questions as to where these problems came from.

@beecat9951

7 ай бұрын

They're fighting Islamic terrorists who would see us all dead so I'm going to say yes

@jacobcohen9205

7 ай бұрын

Broadly speaking it does.

"How would you feel if foreign settlers from an alien religion slowly colonised your homeland and slowly drove you out of your towns and cities?" Arabs and Muslims love presenting this argument while ignoring completely the fact that they're colonising the West right now.

@AminTheMystic

4 ай бұрын

You mean, your worry is, they will do to use what we did to them? Love how people like you quietly play around with the word colonise. Now it means something else entirely.

I'm torn on this issue. On one hand, I support anyone who has attrocities inflicted on them. On the other hand, I am aware that some Jewish people like Barbara Lerner Spector helped to push the situation my home land now finds itself in. I have seen Jewish people in Israel spitting on Christians, I have seen them telling Europeans they aren't welcome in Israel. I have seen Jewish people declaring that Christians should 'worship all Jews' because Jesus was a Jew. Instead of taking a side, I have decided that both groups have elements within them that do not like me or people that look like me. So, neither group deserves my alliance. Instead I offer the victims of all atrocities my empathy. And nothing else. I will not offer support for spending British blood and/or treasure to any group that has elements of hatred for my people within it.

@thewkovacs316

7 ай бұрын

yes, there are bad jews and good jews why does that mean it's ok to root for mass murdering terrorists?

Isn't it true that the USA gives ten million dollars to Isreal per day? What more support do you want?

FTA

Some people think that the lesson of WWII is that ethno-nationalism is bad, which is why they oppose Israel's policies towards the Palestinians.

@SoopSoopa

7 ай бұрын

but the ethno nationalism of Palestinians

@Christian___

7 ай бұрын

​@@SoopSoopaPalestinians don't want a race based state, where did you get that idea from? Most of them want a one state solution with Israeli citizenship.

"Remember that murderer who took a US elementary school classroom hostage,and the US air force dropped a MOAB on the school and killed all the children and everyone was cool with it because they needed to kill the guy and he was using the kids as human shields? No? Me neither" Caitlin Johnstone

@o00nemesis00o

7 ай бұрын

I've seen stupid analogies in my day but this takes the biscuit

good explanation.

mate your out of step with average people who believe we are all equal! if people really believe in zionism then go to israel and live that life, or stay where you are and be a good citizen imho

I am extremely disappointed in Yascha Mounk. He was a promising voice of a pluralistic, classical liberalism. I read Persuasion regularly and have bought a couple of his books. But he has reminded us of the worst aspects of what centrist liberalism used to stand for. He has shown no ability to criticize or question the knee jerk stance on foreign policy issues that contributed so heavily to the discrediting of mainstream liberalism in the public eye, certainly in the United States. Now that Israel has more than quadrupled the body count, with much of the Israeli population and government openly seeking vengeance against the entire Palestinian people, he has nothing to say about that. While Israel cuts off water to 2.2 million people it holds in an open-air prison, and refuses pleas from the entire world community to stop, Mounk is still complaining about what a bunch of random campus leftists said weeks ago. I can't take him seriously anymore. Does this great thinker on the problems with "cancel culture" have any comment on the cancellations, the firings, the withdrawn job offers, or the doxxings of anyone who speaks up in solidarity with Palestinians? Does any of that seem maybe inconsistent with the principles he claims to have been laying out for us this whole time? Haven't heard anything yet. His entire posture is falling apart; his entire intellectual persona has no credibility after this. Also, listening to Mounk talk about *leftist protestors* robbing Palestinians of agency is too rich to bear.

@o00nemesis00o

7 ай бұрын

No mention of Egypt also keeping the 'open air prison' closed then? Lebanon let in some Palis and got a civil war. Jordan did and got Black September. Maybe Palestinians are just awful people crying about the consequences of their own choices?

@jones786

7 ай бұрын

@@o00nemesis00o Yes. Egypt is one of the few Arab countries to have diplomatic relations with Israel and is one of the biggest recipients of foreign aid from US after Israel. I am sure Israel would not accept an open borden between Egypt and Gaza which they would see as a source of danger. According to Wikipedia, "In January 2011, Binyamin Ben-Eliezer, a former [Israeli] defense minister known for his close ties to Egyptian officials, stated that "Egypt is not only our closest friend in the region, the co-operation between us goes beyond the strategic." Egypt is just part of the scheme. So what are you talking about?

Israel can take care of itself. Israel is not the West's problem.

@Geo65582

7 ай бұрын

So why we got terrorists marching on our streets Palestine is not our problem

@Geo65582

7 ай бұрын

Why have they not marched for Yemen..don't give shit about them children

@sudenims5235

7 ай бұрын

Total head in sand thinking. It’s exposed what’s been happening in our country. More will come if we don’t stand up for our values. The protests show this.

@JH-ck1nr

7 ай бұрын

The same things and people attacking Israel are exacly the same that have attacked us. So we are involved because of the traitors in parliament. But just watch them change when Islamic fanatics become the new guy fawkes.

@randomclick2826

7 ай бұрын

It can’t though. It’s entire economy and military is subsidised and supplied by the EU&US. It doesn’t even make the missiles for the iron dome. Israel is a strong military power and economy compared to its neighbors because it’s subsidised so heavily.

So glad i unsubbed from their magazine.

What in the hell is a sociologist?

The difference between people steadfastly supporting Israel and people steadfastly supporting the Palestinians is that the former category includes most people in power.

We are all israel.

@adamgates1142

7 ай бұрын

Yayaya and everyone has aids ...

@GuntD-rz1xb

7 ай бұрын

Speak for yourself.

The US supports Israel 🇮🇱

Hasbara BS.

"Israel has a right to defend itself" being repeated 24/7 and no one worried about the number of deaths in Gaza is not enough support?

@Cobbido

7 ай бұрын

You can't even post comments about it without it getting flagged and autojoinked if certain words or phrases are in your comment, across all big tech platforms

The Isrealis treated the Palestinians like crap..With the settlement policies and the blockade in Gaza. Anyone who cares about Isreal must heed this warning

@o00nemesis00o

7 ай бұрын

The blockade wasn't on a whim

@owenoceillaigh5899

7 ай бұрын

​@@o00nemesis00o the settlements however where ideological

@jumbodoorock9989

7 ай бұрын

They treat the Arabs much better than the Arabs treat each other.

Since 1917, when The Balfour Declaration was issued the British have been playing one side against the other in the "Holy Land". The problems in Israel/Palestine did not start on October 7, 2023. The history is far more complicated than thst. Israel is not a member of the International Criminal Court. Anyone who potentially commits the acts that the ICC investigates, no matter who they are, deserves to be criticised. No matter the nation, the state, the individual, the government, the organisation.

@randomclick2826

7 ай бұрын

The ICC is meaningless. It exists purely to exonerate the most prolific abusers of international law.

@o00nemesis00o

7 ай бұрын

Oh yeah, international authorities. Love em. Did you hear, China is backto preside over the UN Human Rights Council

Complete nonsense: does this fellow really think that the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is somehow related to a woke based ideology? The issue is that the Israeli jews have imposed a discriminatory regimen in their own country and this is not a matter of perception, but legal-institustional.

Poor Israel. Put that alongside poor ancient Rome with 3 (repeat 3!) Servile wars, poor US slave owners who had to put up with slave rebellions. All suffered atrocities but all would have forgotten the huge atrocities they, themselves, committed in the first place. I suppose, in fairness, Israel could point to the Warsaw ghetto atrocities where it was impossible for the uprising to committ atrocities on the civilian population, as it was (as far as I know) confined to Warsaw itself. Indeed Germany was quite a distance away. Maybe that's what's pissing Israel off, the fact that they couldn't do so. - committ atrocities that is. 'Cos if they could have, then they certainly would have. And I for one would not have condemned nor condoned. Poor Israel. Nobody understands them - except most of the Western world leaders, that is.

@jumbodoorock9989

7 ай бұрын

Poor you.

Time to BOYCOTT Israeli produce - Just aske the country of origin before purchase!