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A terrific conversation. One of the best.

Disappointing that he parroted the media propaganda about the Florida policy. The policy specifically says that materials on CRT can be taught as long as no student is being forced to personally affirm the theory being forwarded by the theorists. In other words, professors can use those materials as teaching tools, they just can't compel a student to accept them as true.

@Bob-sd8ns

4 ай бұрын

Umm, there is the stated policy/law and then there is what is actually happening in practice. These guys are talking about the practice/enforcement. When words and actions are incongruous, studies show that people believe the actions over the stated words

Great interview! Sometimes I don't have much faith in humanity, but interviews like these give me hope that we still have a chance.

Another excellent conversation! Thank you

It’s striking, how often the stop woke act is mischaracterized. This professor said he couldn’t teach about critical race theory in his class if he were in Florida, because of that bill, but that is totally false. You can’t teach its principles as facts, but teaching the belief and philosophy is not prohibited. These people intentionally draw this obtuse conclusion about it in my opinion.

@ridesharegold6659

7 ай бұрын

I don't think Mounk was doing it on purpose but otherwise, yeah, most people have a completely skewed concept of what is happening here but you can't really blame them. It's non-stop on most media.

@robinwcollins

7 ай бұрын

Can’t teach it as “true”. Is that what professors do, or do they make material available to consider. Must they declare what is not true too in Florida?

@jamestillman3150

7 ай бұрын

@@robinwcollins what the bill says is roughly: you can’t teach that one race is inherently better or worse than another, or that a person of one race is guilty of things done in the past by other members of that race. It doesn’t mention crt in the bill and you can teach the theory all you want. You just can’t use it as your Bible and treat students the way you might if you were a true believer in it.

@jamestillman3150

7 ай бұрын

@@robinwcollins but to answer your question. Sorry :). You’re right to say they shouldn’t be teaching theory as fact and professors should be just bringing up these things as possibilities to consider. That’s really what the bill was intended to do. Before this, you had teachers lining kids up based on their privilege and other humiliatingly stupid practices.

@robinwcollins

7 ай бұрын

@@jamestillman3150 please send a link to the legislation.

Separating kids by race. Didn't we used to call that Apartheid?

@alexiswallace2656

7 ай бұрын

It's the democrats doing it. I don't see how this guy does not see it. It's obvious. What an 'Intellectual'

Heheheheheh. Was it Clemenceau or George Bernard Shaw who said: "He who is not a Socialist at twenty has no heart. He who is not a Capitalist at forty has no head"?

@robinwcollins

7 ай бұрын

Not Shaw.

@leewisermcintosh6679

7 ай бұрын

Churchill

I like your work so much! Also, I’m glad you have Yasha on your podcast

Thank you Coleman! This is the very best video that could have been posted after the last one.

What also unites the Foucault et. al. people is that they seem really angry and lack a sense of humor.

@stopper90004

7 ай бұрын

He was a morl relativist, opportunist and a self-confessed pedophile

So. 👏 Damn. 👏 Excellent.👏

Great conversation!

Well done. Mounk has nailed it. A more comprehensive analysis than some of the others on this topic. His disagreements with people like James Lindsay on calling the essence of the trap “cultural Marxism” is particularly crisp. This book needs to do well. I note the Guardian has a superficial review out. This was a genuinely thoughtful conversation.

Agree with Coleman that you really need to read Yascha's book to appreciate the superior quality of his analysis and message. It's not just a reinforcement of what you get from a meme or an extended podcast. It really is a deeper perspective and thinking through of a complex social phenomenon. It's not contradictory to what you get from this discussion. It's just that I found finishing the book, left me with a more substantial understanding. Not claiming it provided a complete or perfect understanding, and I didn't finish in lockstep with the author's perspective, and it didn't seem like that was expected. BTW... Though not a page turner, it was a relatively quick easy read for a book of substantial body

@TheWhitehiker

7 ай бұрын

How 'complex' can id poli woke be? Marcuse is not that difficult, though of course dangerously flawed.

@advocate1563

7 ай бұрын

A.genuine intellectual rarher than what passes for one these days. As a guest lecturer (with no skin therefore in the fame), it astonishes me how trite much academic thinking can be. Chasing grants appears to have overtaken intellectual incrementalism.

I’m interested in learning about how philosophical movements have impacted the study of psychology. While I’m no expert on philosophy, my from what I’ve been seeing going on in the American Psychiatry Association there is definitely an influential postmodern movement that has been evolving over the last few decades and since the rise of social media platforms has drastically increased the number of people who are uncritically accepting various dubious psychological theories. Their popularity is now pressuring many in the psychological community into silence. Decolonization and liberation psychology is a great example of this.

I'm ten minutes in and I already don't care for this guys message. I'm an old school liberal and when i look at political threats in America i see the worst coming from the left and i don't think its even close! The biggest threat i see is to free speech and the right isn't going after free speech but the left as being going hard at it. This guy talks as if racism and white supremacy are HUGE issues in America when the truth is these issues are all most nonexistent. Racism is a billion dollar industry in America and this guy just seems like he wants a slice of that.

@SortOfEggish

7 ай бұрын

That's a very knee jerk and uninformed opinion if you mean it earnestly. He's not taking a side either way and not trying to cash in, he's been researching the origin of this public phenomenon is discourse about race since it became a public problem.

@jacoblee5796

7 ай бұрын

@@SortOfEggish Well for a guy who’s not trying to take sides he seems insanely bias in the lefts favor. He seems to agree with the things he’s criticizing on he left.

@jamesreardon9119

5 ай бұрын

Surely the whole point of hearing a critique of a section of the left is best delivered by someone left leaning? Why on earth would you want to listen to it from someone from the right? You already know they don’t agree.

@jacoblee5796

5 ай бұрын

@@jamesreardon9119 It's not that this guy is left leaning, its that he seems to agree with the very ideas he's critiquing. In my opinion it comes off as grifter like and not very honest.

It’s interesting how this speaker seems to be entirely oriented as to what policies or actions may empower the right, but never seems to be concerned about what may inadvertently empower the left.

@Sparta155

7 ай бұрын

Yes he gave away his own biases early on.

It’s interesting but at the same time it brings us back to Mounk’s blind spot earlier book on diversity. Immigrants come to our western countries with deep cultural identities that are not postmodern but archaic .Take Ilhan Omar for instance. She is culturally deeply antisemitic. The problem is that new identities view her antisemitism as a legitimate identity. The problem with Muslim immigration into western countries is that their cultural identities are not amenable to be westernized and neutralized ( for their archaic elements: homophobia, sexism, antisemitism, tribalism and endogamy ) in Western democracies) . One of the worst consequences of identity politics is that we are told to accept these cultural identities wholesale ( including female genitali mutilation, the burqa etc.).

If truth comes from authority, and authority can arbitrarily re-define truth as it pleases... Truth must be subjective. A non-subjective truth presumes that truth is or is above authority.

Excellent!

No respect for Mounk after his hit piece on Bret Weinstein in the NYT.

@SortOfEggish

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment, Eric

Dear Coleman, can you kindly consider interviewing Dr. E Michael Jones, particularly his book Slaughter of Cities, which I highly recommend. I think he makes a strong case for how racial, sexual and color identity is often used as cover for culture wars between competing values of various ethnic groups. Also, consider interviewing Dr. Norman Finkelstein, a highly credible American scholar on Israel Palestine conflict and history. Thanks

@Stardust475

Ай бұрын

Finkelstein 😂 Hopefully Coleman is too well read an smart to know about this psychos pseudo history.

I would love to hear the thoughts of you guys on something I call “culturalism“ which I believe actually underlies (or contributes significantly to) a lot of the other -isms. The reason why I think it deserves more attention is because I think it’s actually far easier to discuss culturalism (as a source of or contribution to other -isms) because it’s not attached to any immutable physical attribute of a person’s body, and has more to do with the mutable thoughts in their mind So many times, I detected a little phobia about someone who was simply different, until I learned we had some favorite thing in common; and then all those other differences vanished INSTANTLY.

I enjoyed the conversation but y'all need to actually read Marx. He had capitalism's number. We can certainly quibble about the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat". "Communism" didn't exist...his ideas were flights of fancy about the future but he nailed the identification of the grand forces that shape capitalism. Actually, I think he would be shocked at how far it has gone and how far people are willing vote against their own best interests. Remember, Marx is writing against Classical Economists who are saying that the market is going to cause everything to work out...not just work out...but lead to the best solution. And yet, The Wealth of Nations is filled with Adam Smith's criticisms of capitalists...but he believed markets (which predate capitalism) would keep them in check. And this is by and large the conclusion of Neo-Classical Economists ever since, free markets, perfect competition...no market power...it all leads to the best result. You only have to look out your window to see this just isn't so...but MATH! They have MATH that shows it's true. Regulatory capture, monopolies, all presaged by Marx. Oh, and Piece Work Capitalism rebranded as "the Gig economy" like it's a good thing! Remote work...have your office in your living room and never leave work. People don't like what Marx has to say because they usually aspire to the things he accuses people of...they want to be the monopoly with no competitors! The Identity Trap is what you get when there is no measurable progress is made on economic issues in 50+ years. Real wages? down. Sure, we have more gadgets but mental health? Down. Share of GDP by labor? Down. Retirement? No, make them part of the investor class...but not a powerful segment of the investor class. But here, let's fiddle while Rome burns and argue endlessly about identities because sure, this legislation or that seems like a victory, but who knows what's in your drinking water...or if that pill is actually safe. It started out as a Good Idea. The Marxists were sexist. Homosexuality was a Bourgeois perversion. It certainly seems reasonable to ask people to not be assholes on the way to some economic Shangri-La, but we've completely jumped the shark to such a degree we cannot actually band together and fight for big issues. Seriously, we have people acknowledging that their ancestors stole the very land they stand on while at the same time, they're inviting more people to come on in.

Important discussion

Yascha's new book was o.k. The last two chapters seemed rushed and the titles of each did not seem to match the content. my score (which is worth very little) 7 out of 10

In some states pandemic aid was priority distributed along identity lines.

The roots, culture, and experience of Cambodian and Chinese Americans couldnt be more different. We have to stop letting mal-adjusted and simple thinking folk to shape all cultures. It is imperative.

Wait I just heard this guy wrote a "hit piece" on Brett Weinstein?

@stringX90

7 ай бұрын

Gotta check that out...

@matthewkilbride1669

7 ай бұрын

@@stringX90 By "hit piece", I think you mean honest and unapologetic critique.

@stringX90

7 ай бұрын

@@matthewkilbride1669 Yeah I was using Brett's words

@matthewkilbride1669

7 ай бұрын

@@stringX90 That makes sense

THAT is how you host a guest on a podcast: by letting the guest speak uninterrupted. Seems such a simple and obvious thing to do...

34:30 you can add to that List Friedrich Hayek one of the biggest and most influential critics of socialism later in life

Yascha's one of those needed individuals who can in turn piss off both the left and right, not for the sake of it, but because he in some way recognizes the deep similarities between the thinking that underlies both staunchly left and staunchly right positions and rejects that sort of thinking regardless from which side it comes.

@advocate1563

7 ай бұрын

All extremes lead to the same destination.

Complaining about a world complaining about a world. Its right up my street 😊

Unfortunately, the live conversations are lost here, no?

Very good conversation. Better founded than Rufo´s theory.

I would not let my grandson anywhere near this guy. I like Coleman a lot. His guest is an A hole in this rare case.

Upshot is, he says we should still judge people on the basis of race, but not as much as the CRT people do it.

yascha monk? i know karl pilkington when i see him

Wherever I go, I demand to be put with the other redheads 😂😂😂

@pathacker4963

7 ай бұрын

Just the blue eyed ones or any redhead?

@clifb.3521

7 ай бұрын

@@pathacker4963 natural or converts

Is it true that Florida law would prevent this man from including in his syllabus material related to CRT?

@Clownbabyworldtour

6 ай бұрын

Probably not. The law is vague, but you could probably teach college students about critical race theory as long as you don’t teach it in a supportive manner.

I think it's funny no one's commented on his thumbnail. He basically put that guy sitting on his lap, hahaha!

It occurs to me while watching this that Emerson quote about each man being our superior. Strong men could beat up all the smart men but they dont. By the same token smart men could control strong men against their interests and they do. I think we may be getting close to the strong men realizing the decorum is broken. Just an over generalization but maybe apropos.

Democracy Crisis Hipsters is my new band name ❤😂❤😂🎉

Has the U.S. led progressive advances or have European societies led? Has the U.S. led liberal advances or have European societies led? Is there no causal connection between progressive and liberal advances in the U.S. and Europe?

Epistemology is meaningful

1:34:53 to 1:58:50 - Good defense of free speech.

It happens with language, eg alt-right. People run away from that word. Another example cultural Marxism is another weapons term, many say it is anti-Semitic, this is after years of using it as way describing identity and postmodernist progressives.

Would you interview Umar Johnson, or would it be too combative?

I don't seek recognition i just want to be left the hell alone and seek an ideology that allows others that same privilege and opportunity to thrive. What is so hard about simply leaving a person be, let them exist ,and how does allowing that threaten the existence of another? Clearly in the US the right has been the most imposing. They have to tell you what you can or cannot do with your own genitals, who can or cannot marry based on their sex, what parents can or cannot decide for their own children, religiously inspired legislation, what kids should learn in school that is based on ideology rather than facts, how much visibility a certain groups is allowed. Most of the issues we face in this world wouldn't be if people just left each other the hell alone

Individualism is Intersectionality taken to its final form.

As far as access to the vaccine goes, Florida actually made people have proof of residency to get the vaccine, which definitely limited access to some poor people and probably undocumented workers who had to keep working through the pandemic. I'm middle-aged and homeless with multiple risk factors, and I wasn't able to get vaccinated until they finally got rid of that rule, which took a long time. I'm still happy that I live here and not in California, because they had some crazy lock down rules there.

@samhand8270

7 ай бұрын

I’m gonna take a wild, reckless guess and say that you’ve either: gotten Covid, in which case, what was the point of the vaccine, or you haven’t gotten Covid, in which case, what was the point of the vaccine? At some point, we’re so many levels of “how does this make any g-damn sense?” that some arbitrary requirement like proof of residency is kind of irrelevant. If you tried to buy stain remover that turns out not to be able to remove the stain anyways, would you still be complaining about being asked for ID when trying to buy it?

@pathacker4963

7 ай бұрын

Did you get vaccinated?

@stopper90004

7 ай бұрын

You could easily pay for a vaccine yourself with a few hours of work. Take responsibility; stop blaming "the system".

@Primalxbeast

7 ай бұрын

@pathacker4963 I got the first 2 shots when they dropped the proof of residency requirement. I haven't gotten any booster shots. The beginning of covid with all the masking and social distancing was a bit stressful, so I felt that after getting vaccinated was a good time to just not worry about covid and if I get it, I get it. I may have had it one or twice, but I never got tested.

@Primalxbeast

7 ай бұрын

@stopper90004 You seem to have forgotten the rationing of the vaccine when it first came out. The supply was limited, and you couldn't just buy it back then.

This is outstanding but the last hashtag is concerning. #communism? This appears to appeal to the rightwing totalitarian populists who would misuse this cautious critique. In what truly important modern sense is wokeness communist? (The true connection is subtle, but the prominent association is a kneejerk rightwing accusation. The Marxist connection seems to me, an academic, to be a narrow obsession of my colleagues in the academy.) The interview -- which is outstanding -- is far above this unfortunate hashtag.

Also the right doesn’t vote or think as one like the left or at least how leftism is the culture and cult of the left who are on the same page. U get tons of differing opinions and ideas from the right. U have to get in line or step out if ur on the left or in the DNC

I'm not convinced any good ideas came out of the 60's. I'm certainly not convinced the sexual revolution was a positive development.

I never know Coleman is half Latino! Hablas Espanol?

@chickenfishhybrid44

7 ай бұрын

Puerto Rican mom I believe

Free speech is not a thing that teachers and employees of publicly funded schools have. Idk why people insist on acting like they do. Changes to school curriculum etc are not inherently violation of "free speech" in the broad sense of the term.

What is missing from this analysis is the concept of oppressor/oppressed dichotomy, which is core Marxist. I cannot see how you can dissociate it, and thereby Marxist origins, from the hallmarks of modern identity politics.

Great conversation! Much more substantial than anything Rufo has to offer.

Coleman please, I beg you… STOP EXHALING DIRECTLY INTO YOUR DAMN MICROPHONE WHILE THE GUESTS ARE SPEAKING.

Is that tree real? What's the deal?

@MsMrshanks

7 ай бұрын

There is no place here for your critical tree theory....

Stopped watching after Yascha made unsupported and unyielding claim that Covid vaccine saved lives. An absolute forfeiture of credibility for me

@carmenhoover4941

5 ай бұрын

Lol

I was in the the local coffee shop sipping my brew and playing with a sheet of Origami . A mixed couple, a black male and a white female sat at a table close by. They both were speaking in a suburban dialect. The male approached me and his suburban dialect morphed into ghetto slang. "Yo bruh , gimme one of them ....( I didn't recognize the last word). I played the game and acted dumb. "Give you a who? " Realizing I wouldn't condescend into a ghetto dialogue he shifted to a standard English dialogue ( a small number of Black people call it 'code switching') and repeated his statement in which I understood with great clarity.

Yascha 'hit piece' Mounk. Your piece on Bret is embarrassing. Coleman, I admire your ability to converse over the entire spectrum of opinion and ideas.

@explrr22

7 ай бұрын

He's trying so hard to distinguish himself from those hated by the mainstream modern left, that he gets sloppy in the critiques he buys into. There's some of that in the book as well, and for me it detracted from it. Unfortunately it's still the best I've encountered. No doubt a person would be better off relying on a broader list of sources and questioning some of the claims. But it's not a bad point to start if you're questioning what's up with new social concepts and practices. If you've formed opinions through a process of rigorous study and quality challenging critical examination, this book isn't for you, but if you haven't this isn't a bad place to start. Just don't treat it, or its author as beyond biases.

@robinwcollins

7 ай бұрын

He is correct about the fall of BW in my reading.

@explrr22

7 ай бұрын

@@robinwcollins I agree BW has gone strange and become less credible based on overall behavior. It sure appeared to me like a case of audience capture/radicalization. But it also appears he was always tending to assorted contrarian crankish views. Probably responsible for both his early life, far left attractions and the reason he landed at an unconventional place like Evergreen College. The original comment I believe was in reference to a NYT piece in which Yasha was trying to draw a distinction between himself and heterodox critics like Brett. I followed the supportive links provided in two text accusations against BW in the piece. To me they fell a little short of the strength of accusations. Still a little wild and disturbing Twitter content from Brett, just not fully living up to accusations without further assumptions.

@robincollins1647

7 ай бұрын

@@explrr22what I read from YM was BW went down a conspiracy rabbit hole. I was a big fan of BW until he went weird on covid. Sam Harris also distanced from BW for similar reasons. Very unfortunate because BW is a good thinker otherwise. Ideology.

@Nick23at63

7 ай бұрын

@@robincollins1647 - Please be specific as to what BW got wrong concerning covid.

Yascha is controlled opposition. 🤦🏾‍♂️

He still believes these vaccines saved lives?

its a structural analogue.

Speed to 1.25, he's a bit slow as a speaker.

@pathacker4963

7 ай бұрын

And other ways as well.

@TheWhitehiker

7 ай бұрын

Perhaps so.@@pathacker4963

I guess when he says nobody has done the work, not sure. I feel like he really parrots a lot of James Lindsay

@robinwcollins

7 ай бұрын

His disagreements with Lindsay are important. Cynical Theories by Pluckrose and Lindsay do cover some of the same ground.

@JH-ji6cj

7 ай бұрын

​@robinwcollins I would assume you are right, but I do find someone who touts so heavily the argument for Free Speech so dismissive as to not even bring up the work James Lindsay has done in the space (if even to mention how wrong he thinks James is). Felt kind of Voldemortish, like those who refuse to spell out Trump.

@robincollins1647

7 ай бұрын

I will check if Lindsay is mentioned in the book. Impossible not to I would think. My take is that Pluckrose and Lindsay probably disagree about the “Marxist” claim that Lindsay makes and that YM does a good job of refuting. Given Lindsay was so wrong about postmodernism (suggesting an ideological not academic spin) it may be that YM didn’t feel it was worth going into detail about JL by name. But also it was Lyotard who referred to “skepticism towards metanarratives” and YM referred to Foucault who didn’t, I believe, first use the term. Will need to read the book.

@robincollins1647

7 ай бұрын

Incidentally free speech doesn’t obligate anyone to provide a platform for someone they disagree with in their own work. It does mean people we disagree with should not be denied a public platform they try and establish themselves. I have listened to JL’s argument in many of his podcasts - about wokeism being Marxism - and he is entirely unconvincing. There are threads between the two but W is not M.

@JH-ji6cj

7 ай бұрын

@@robincollins1647 not really to argue Free Speech as being necessary to prop up oppositional arguments, but more saying that I personally find it tied together in a moral frame of intentionality for what the term and it's deeper meaning encompasses. If your arguments and positions are sound, using opposing arguments should actually be one of the best ways to exemplify why your positions hold even in the face of adversarial positions.

Everyone has an identity. Why is it a trap for some and not others? Answer that. Some people get identified as differentiated while others are identified as undifferentiated. Why and how? Why do you not discuss that? What are you afraid of? I cannot be ten meters away from you without you being ten meters sway from me. So, then, who is actually ten meters away?

Thomas Sowell, Dennis Prauger…tons of intellectual influencers from Clarence Thomas to Ronald Regan. How do you not know these things Coleman.

Worse than if Russell Wilson became a rapper

calls Trump an authoritarian, I click the tab closed. Bye.

@JH-ji6cj

7 ай бұрын

O do wish Coleman would have pushed back some by way of asking his guest to elaborate specifics on subjects such as statements like that and what proof or policy SPECIFICS would cause him to not be able to teach aspects of CRT in Florida.

@ladymary22

7 ай бұрын

Trump is an authoritarian. In fact, Trump takes pride in it.

"to change the world you must first change language." This is the problem with all these movements. Movements on the right and left. There is a certain sense in which it is true for politics and social movements - you really can control people with language. But for any sort of rational and meaningful understanding of the world, and for control of the natural world, you first need to define your terms and very clearly spell out your classifications. Without clarity youre just spinning out word castles and the consequences of your movements will be virtually random. Some categories will be naturally fuzzy or have blurred distinctions but without at least setting the boundaries of what you're talking about, you aren't actually talking about anything at all. You're making language-sounds referring to nothing.

@luminous3558

7 ай бұрын

Thats the thing. People don't care. Its not about the truth, its not about being honest, its about winning a battle that in their minds is so threatening to their continued existence that anything is allowed. Yes there are a lot of people who are seeing through the lies or at least get an odd feeling that instinctively causes them to be cautious but they aren't the majority. Its been taught and is being taught to very impressionable people who will shape our future for better or worse. Its enforced in workplaces and places of public discourse. If you call it out you will lose opportunities and face social consequences. So we got a silent majority keeping quiet out of fear while there are tons of true believers being raised to zealously uphold this in the future, who believe the lies as fact. This is the great threat to modern society which divides people into left and right and continuously pushes them to more extreme ends of it. The left keeps rigorously purity testing itself to be more pure(extreme) and anyone that fails gets outcast and declared right wing. Both sides strengthen and embolden the other to be more extreme as the perceived threat grows. The right sees the collapse of familial values, rise of communism and threat of violent revolution while the left sees racism, rise of fascism and also the threat of a violent revolution. All of this is spawned by just language and peoples usage of it to build exclusive clubs from which to discriminate against the uninitiated.

Hes black ? I thought he was Hindu. 😂❤

Weird how he makes an exception for Jewish identity 🤔

@robinwcollins

7 ай бұрын

How so?

@tetrapharmakos8868

7 ай бұрын

@@robinwcollins Which words do you not know the meaning of? Special pleading is always a red flag pointing towards a lack of epistemic hygiene.

Goddamn Coleman is so smart it pisses me off

Coleman is a t-rex