This man touched on the most fundamental danger of our time. Monopolization of data puts too much power in the hands of disconnected technocrats.

@bitc0inlightningrules423

6 ай бұрын

That's the reason we have to embrace decentralized technology's like NOSTR

@ai_serf

6 ай бұрын

@@bitc0inlightningrules423 you need infrastructure and land rights. otherwise, we're just renting their wires. we need servers, we need investment or some other way to get money. right now the internet is owned by the oligarchs.

@Hikaeme-od3zq

6 ай бұрын

Disconnected technocrats aka the big babies, psychopaths who run this planet.

@WizardVal

6 ай бұрын

Without this the shift to the next social formation is impossible. The example of USSR has demonstrated that you can not jump to socialism prematurely when the premises are not created yet.

@angelosenteio

6 ай бұрын

These companies should be nationalized and not for profit.

For those who are curious, the video game company he referenced working for is Valve, the creator of Steam, Counter-strike, Half-life, etc.

@itsunoshiyuga

7 ай бұрын

I had the same guess. it is what it is because the actual owner has very serious values even if it includes profits. as soon as he leaves the company it will be in ruins

@cosmiclounge

7 ай бұрын

​@@itsunoshiyuga Yup. As befell OkCupid; as, I fear, will similarly befall Bandcamp.

@Nick3DvB

6 ай бұрын

How ironic. Steam was arguably one of the first "cloud" services.

@Shpira

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, as soon as he said flat hierarchy, no management i loled and knew it was valve.

@lazarjancic7994

6 ай бұрын

I don't know anything about this company, is it truly doing as well as Janis says or am I missing something?

His explanation of Internationalism v globalism/globalisation is brilliant in its simplicity. I'm an internationalist and I'm often accused of being a globalist. And in the moment I have not been able to explain the essential difference, even though I know it at heart. Now it will be easier. Thank you Yanis.

@kiwikemist

5 ай бұрын

"globalism" in the way the right wing commentator sphere uses it is completely idiotic. They use it the same way they use "woke" = everything I don't like

@cloroxbleach2520

4 ай бұрын

Mr. Worldwide!

@Bailiol

25 күн бұрын

Nice comment. Would be curious to hear how you reconcile this "internationalist" ideal with simple interstate power politics - the US and Russia have thousands of nukes aimed at one another and are closer than ever to pushing the button. How, REALISTICALLY, do we realise a world under these deadly competitive conditions in which freedom of movement is maximised as Varoufakis suggests?

At 15:15, Yanis says "The capitalists are now vassals to the techno-feudal lords, the people who own the cloud capital." All of us should realize a new form of commerce is upon us.

@garyhowtobluetoothjblheadp3583

7 ай бұрын

Screw commerce! It'll be the end of humanity if we don't?!

@deannaartzbennett244

7 ай бұрын

Unless and Until "Commerce" Actively Contributes Meaningfully to Affordable Humane Basics Expressed in Factual, Clean Air, Water, Soil, Humane Animal Husbandry, & Food Production, Home Ownership Housing, Transportation, Education, Healthcare, Childcare, Community Accountability and Social & Environmental Responsibility, THAT Wealth Resource and POWER Capture IS An Enemy, A Danger, a Potential Authoritarian Dictatorship and Abuser of Humanity. Technology Must Never be Allowed to Determine the "Worth" of Humanity, any more than the Current Corporate Government Oligarchy NARRATIVE, Masquerading as Democracy. Business is Meant to Serve Humanity, Humanity is Not meant to Serve Wealth Resource and POWER Capture, as Mere Consumers and Exploitable, Expendable Commodities. The "Problems" of Society are Directly Traceable to the Overreach of " He Who Has The Gold Makes The Rules Economics", Historically Foundational to EVERY Collapse of System, Community, Marriage, or EMPIRE, Anytime, Anywhere. The "Bottom Line" is Sustainability and Quality of Life, NOT Product and Profit Promotion & Delivery. Humane Basics haven't Changed with the Advancement of Technical Manipulation of Systems.

@troymackenzie6263

7 ай бұрын

@@garyhowtobluetoothjblheadp3583 You can't. Even where they employed brutal tyranny to end private commerce, it still thrived in the black market. Commerce is as natural to humans as breathing.

@JC-qh6wl

7 ай бұрын

It’s nonsense. Does he suppose capitalists have never paid for shelf space? Moreover, the reason these tech entrepreneurs are so uber-wealthy is precisely because bankers assign their assets enormous valuations and not even because of some sort of cloud rent leaching profits. The only thing he’s right about is that it has undermined profits for the people who pay them.

@garyhowtobluetoothjblheadp3583

7 ай бұрын

@@JC-qh6wl All the more reason the present Shit-show - should - GO!?? Otherwise we are doomed as a species ?!

I love the final message. No safe places, no trenches, no bunkers to hide away with ones views. Get out into an open field and discuss. Talking to a person with same opinions is boring and waste of time. Thanks to Freddie and Yanis for giving an example.

Such a wonderfully calm, wise ,voice of reason ❤Thank you Yanis🙏

Greeks once again, blessing us with their knowledge. Why do we continue to repeat the same mistakes over and over?

The return to feudalism is apparent. It's not only about Cloud. Besides Big Tech, essential service providing monopolies, that rent ownership, are more prevalent than ever and keep getting more powerful (e.g. even real estate is turning into a service via large corporations investing in it). A monopoly controlling services, especially essential ones, is a terrible thing for obvious reasons and is nothing like the traditional market concept of capitalism. As for immigration, I kind of agree, but at the same time issues about the proper acculturation of immigrants exist and must be addressed.

@scottwatrous7649

7 ай бұрын

The problem is that given what he asserts he doesn't go on to say "and hence no one class has a right to direct your productivity" but instead he suggests that what Yugoslav Mr. Djilas called "The New Class" should direct us. And, of course, he fully intends to be in the vanguard of the "New Class." Never ever a worker/owner but rather a boss or intellectual lackey of the boss.

@Seremothgr

7 ай бұрын

​@@scottwatrous7649 Can you cite that? Because as far as I have seen, he is directly opposed to what Djilas' called the "New Class", and was notably one of the few who contested the technocrats during his time as a minister of finance in Greece. He apologized when the negotiations failed and resigned when others yielded, despite political costs. Not saying it was the wisest choice to contest them, because the EU runs on interest, and you still need leverage over others to properly negotiate. Furthermore he is one of the reasons a referendum happened at all at the time, thus, showing through his actions that he values democracy and egalitarianism - e.g. in the workplace, citing Valve's example. From my viewpoint, he accurately discerns the left's ideological objectives and aims to implement realistic solutions in today's context, a quality I find the left sorely lacks.

@scottwatrous7649

7 ай бұрын

@@Seremothgr You are right that I do not know what his program is. He talks a lot without specifying and generally it seems to me he advocates rejiggering of finance. And in the tradition of the Continent he seems like a strong statist.

@pookz3067

6 ай бұрын

@@scottwatrous7649you shouldn’t even be part of civilized conversation if you are not a statist

@scottwatrous7649

6 ай бұрын

@@pookz3067 If history is bending toward your opinion individual liberty is in grave danger.

I've been calling it neo-feudal corporate-fascism for years, glad the TRUTH is getting out there and at-least being talked about.

This is quite profound. I’ve always considered the digital landscape as virtual real estate where land is both created and owned. But it goes even beyond that. Not only do the digital tenants pay “rent”, they themselves also become a commodity (user data), which is the true source of wealth for the tech giants. It doesn’t just produce revenue, it also produces power.

@amdhosni

6 ай бұрын

Intellectual masturbation.

@masiphulambongwa6954

6 ай бұрын

Profound: Digital tenants pay 40% rent by their own volution.

@helton3425

6 ай бұрын

The tenats are becoming the cattle and the technocrats will drain us dry be it mentally or with our freedoms

@kennycube5126

6 ай бұрын

Do you mean volition? If you do, that’s all about choice. And that’s the issue with monopolies. There isn’t any 🙁

@SD._

4 ай бұрын

Stop using their gadgets. People are to blame themselves for this. Too lazy , too dumb.

Sayers: "You're a paradox. You're so much a man of the Left, and yet you talk a lot about freedom." I can remember a time when such a sentence would have sounded very odd indeed.

@End-Result

6 ай бұрын

Exactly, the original modern libertarians were anarchist socalists communists and trade unionists / syndicalists.

@roro4536

6 ай бұрын

It still sounds odd frankly...

@DarkoLuketic

6 ай бұрын

For me left always meant freedom as opposed to faschism, which is the absence of freedom

@edtExodus

6 ай бұрын

Over here in Europe that is a pretty silly sentence. Left and right don't seem to mean the same thing in the US, to an almost nonsensical degree. It's the "could care less" of politics.

@russelljames5631

6 ай бұрын

@@edtExodusAmericans think freedom means the freedom to exploit the working class and be racist without consequences

I feel this could have ended more interestingly if Yanis had the self-control to consider what Freddie is saying before getting defensive.

@bigmac786

7 ай бұрын

he lost his cool and showed his true colours. To have an ideology that doesn't believe in borders, yet wants to expel a British citizen due to her beliefs sums up the nature of these communists. He calls her nasty, vile, and evil and he does so with a vengeance behind the tone of his voice. Historically, these types lean towards tyranny if given power.

@myla6135

6 ай бұрын

I think he fully took on what Freddie was saying and corrected Freddie's misconceptions. He was here to discuss his book and his ideas and answer Freddie which he did. Rather well I thought. I didn't see any lack of self control. Just someone who is trying to get his ideas across. Wish there had been more time but this is UnHerd and I guess attention spans only go so far.

He hardly lets Freddie finish a thought, sentence or question.

@Squalla1

7 ай бұрын

Thankfully. The less reactionary nonsense we hear, the better.

@F--B

7 ай бұрын

@@Squalla1 No reaction, no critique, no pushback, just pure flow. Spoken like a true globalist!

@Squalla1

7 ай бұрын

@@F--B I have no idea what globalism means to you, but it was painfully obvious what Freddie's "pushback" was going to be every time he started speaking-because reactionary discourse is always predictable-which is why Varoufakis cut in. It is predictable because it is the discourse of the status quo: we are raised in it and hear it everywhere, all the time. There's nothing you could say that all of us haven't heard before and that any competent leftist can't take down immediately.

@sl9991

7 ай бұрын

@@Squalla1 This is true.

@kiwikemist

5 ай бұрын

​@@F--B"globalism is thing I don't like" just another buzzword like "woke" "SJW" etc.

Interesting conversation! Yanis has a profound intellect , knowledge and elevated perspective. I’m buying his book today .

@LuckyvillageLife

3 ай бұрын

You're so kind women marilyn, Have a nice day, God bless you

I've read too much science fiction in my 77 years. I know where this is going.

@livingwithoutlying7864

3 ай бұрын

Or you just think you know.

Ok, just to emphasize how Panopticon-like technology is now. I saw Yanis' book, 'Technofeudalism' in the bookstore yesterday for the first time. It was one of the only books in the store I mentally decided I would probably purchase later. I didn't google it. I didn't take a photo. I didn't speak to anyone about it. I had never heard of this book before. All I did was make a mental note. Now I open KZread, and this podcast on Yanis' 'Technofeudalism' is at the top of my feed. HOW??????!!!!!!!

@janetaylor-powell

7 ай бұрын

CCTV?! How long did you look at it, did you pick it up? Doesn’t that shit get uploaded to the ‘cloud’…🤷🏽‍♀️ (Ironically, I bought my copy on kindle through Amazon Prime 😆 £9.99 - a bargain 😳)Whatever, Panopticon is right… chuck in facial recognition and I bet you carry your phone everywhere too… yep, we’re living in an open gaol and glad about it too… nobody saw that coming… oh, apart from George Orwell… ✌🏾❣️

@minoozolala

7 ай бұрын

Simple coincidence.

@silotx

7 ай бұрын

It's not a coincidence and you are not being spied, it's even worse they have build an advertising profile that knows you so well that it can predict what books , KZread videos, items, topics, music you are going to like before you even know about them.

@3brenm

7 ай бұрын

​@minoozolala its not a coincidence. It's because the algorithm simply knows your interests, and the more it learns, the more accurate it's predictions. It happens to me all the time.

@Stankful

7 ай бұрын

The book is new and is in visible place in the library and at the same time Yannis is going around podcasts to promote it. You watch similar videos like this one, so the algorithm knows what you like and shows it to you. When you get to the library the book catches your eye, because is in your interest.

He’s absolutely right in explaining iCloud feudalism, deep and challenging analysis. As regards the rest, one of the most dangerous provocateurs second only to Yval Noah Harari

@End-Result

6 ай бұрын

Sounds brilliant to me

@giuseppeboemi927

6 ай бұрын

@@End-Result I completely agree with you, he sheds light on one monster while feeding another. The man clearly doesn't mind the 200 million civilian deaths perpretrated by communism. After all, both technocracy and communism are jewish in nature and serve that same master.

@christinarichie6171

6 ай бұрын

All these people are schooled and mentored from a very young age. They're told all this because they are insiders.

@christinarichie6171

6 ай бұрын

Harari is a eugenicist. Nothing brilliant about him.. Just a frontman.

@arbpaninken6719

6 ай бұрын

Nah Yval Noah Harari is not fit to lace Yanis Varoufakis' boots. After reading three of Harari's books, I think he think's he's smarter than he is.

Interested in how this fellow feels about borders for Israel

@robertholland7558

7 ай бұрын

Israel did not exist when I was born. It was 100% created on false premises.

@nolslifegren

6 ай бұрын

You mean Palestine

@russelljames5631

6 ай бұрын

@@nolslifegren🎯

@janosmarothy5409

6 ай бұрын

Like most socialists, he's firmly opposed to Israel's oppression of the Palestinian people. Easy to look up too. Weird question though, do tell us why exactly it was on your mind

@noraanderson3503

5 ай бұрын

He lives in cloud 9.

Just as a point of clarification (because I've now heard Yanis say this twice, once live and again in this video), it was Blake who wrote "dark satanic mills", not Burke!

I’m reassured that Yanis has maintained his loathing for steroidal capitalism but I’m scandalised that he ignores the unavoidable existence of culture and society ie that which expresses a sense of belonging. As privilege has offered me international travel I have relished the identifiable differences in speech, habits, traditions and religions which characterise different sovereign states which never cease to fascinate, intrigue and encourage me to understand and tolerate new ways of thinking. I cannot imagine life without these exquisite experiences.

@paulaustinmurphy

7 ай бұрын

Steroidal capitalism? Is that this week's buzzword?

@janetaylor-powell

7 ай бұрын

God forbid anything should interfere with the “privileged” tourist experience… “exquisite experiences “… go on, say it, I dare you… “something money can’t buy” 😂😂😂 Hey, “fair exchange is no robbery” and I bet you also left equal “exquisite experiences” in your stead. ✌🏾❣️

@scottwatrous7649

7 ай бұрын

The problem is that given what he asserts he doesn't go on to say "and hence no one class has a right to direct your productivity" but instead he suggests that what Yugoslav Mr. Djilas called "The New Class" should direct us. And, of course, he fully intends to be in the vanguard of the "New Class." Never ever a worker/owner but rather a boss or intellectual lackey of the boss.

@Squalla1

7 ай бұрын

Internationalism and the lack of borders do not imply an erasure of cultural differences any more than the lack of borders prevented different cultures from developing throughout history.

@paulaustinmurphy

7 ай бұрын

@@Squalla1 How do you know that? Yanis's utopian dream has never been tried in its completeness. And, when we come close to it, indigenous cultures are often obliterated. And that doesn't just mean non-Western cultures obliterated by Western imperialism. It also means European communities obliterated by mass immigration. (Perhaps this is some kind of Leftist revenge strategy - posh leftwing academics making today's white working class pay for the sins of British imperialism.) In parts of northern England, entire communities have become populated exclusively by immigrants from only certain parts of the world. Thus, the dreaded "too white" communities are now almost entirely made up of Muslims from Pakistan and Bangladesh. So is a substitution of one "monoculture" with another monoculture really "progress"? A belief in total open borders is different from "weak" internationalism. One can be an internationalist (if not a international socialist), and still believe in borders. This means that Yanis isn't just an internationalist - he's an international socialist. That kind of "internationalism" is usually driven by *theory* and a visceral hatred of capitalism and "Tory scum", not by a genuine love of immigrants or "diversity"

Yanis always starts out with reasonable observations and finishes with some radical ideas for change.

@tillitseac3774

6 ай бұрын

I really respect and admire this guy but, it's OK for him, he's part of our academic elite who will never ever feel the consequences of their ideas

@softcolly8753

6 ай бұрын

@@tillitseac3774 yup. Thomas Sowell describes academics like him perfectly. A far greater mind.

@codyvandal2860

6 ай бұрын

@@softcolly8753 I think its a good idea to read both with an open mind.

I saw a clip of from this interview in which Yanis claimed *"borders are the sign of a failure of the human species."* So while I am coming into this highly skeptical, I will try listen to him with an open mind. *EDIT:* While I certainly agree with Yanis's assessment of "techno feudalism" as the best description of our current economic situation, I think his ideas on immigration and borders remain deeply misguided. As a Marxist, Yanis seems to view the question of immigration as purely a question of economics, which perhaps causes him to underestimate the degree to which fundamental cultural differences can be irreconcilable. He seems to have a similar view to that of old-school liberals who believed that the economic liberalization of China would lead to an embrace of democratic cultural norms, when quite the opposite has occurred. I would be very curious to understand Yanis's views on religion and culture, and if he subscribes to the Marxist belief that those are manifestations of the material conditions of a given society rather than something deeper and more psychological.

@HiKasandra

7 ай бұрын

Do like Yanis more than some politicians. Perhaps the reason he is unpopular among some people is that he says things that sound like it should come from someone else, and not from someone with his background. X

@HiKasandra

7 ай бұрын

​@@lavalavalavalavalavaWow! Thank you! 😊

@nomnomyam9379

7 ай бұрын

he is also pro lckdwn and mandate

@jeffdean8062

7 ай бұрын

I would like to see Yanis focus on convincing populists - left and right - of his position on immigration. Steel Man and refute their argument. Without doing that I think he will lose a natural ally and constituency.

@mithrandirthegrey7644

7 ай бұрын

Amen.

Thank you ! It has been a long time that a new interesting idea was developed. Yanis seems to have thought deeply about the world mechanisms.

@emmanuela7528

7 ай бұрын

It seems that’s what he does every minute.

@scottwatrous7649

7 ай бұрын

The problem is that given what he asserts he doesn't go on to say "and hence no one class has a right to direct your productivity" but instead he suggests that what Yugoslav Mr. Djilas called "The New Class" should direct us. And, of course, he fully intends to be in the vanguard of the "New Class." Never ever a worker/owner but rather a boss or intellectual lackey of the boss.

@louisgottlieb3148

7 ай бұрын

@@scottwatrous7649 Yes, something to think about indeed.

Yanis is the only person I can think of who has different political leanings to me but who I always want to listen to.

@3brenm

7 ай бұрын

That's how i feel about Peter hitchens and Douglas Murray

@tackleberryc6472

7 ай бұрын

Is this bald communist a millionaire ? All you need to know. !!

@paulaustinmurphy

7 ай бұрын

That's fair enough. But why?

@tackleberryc6472

7 ай бұрын

@@paulaustinmurphy Why what ?

@paulaustinmurphy

7 ай бұрын

@@tackleberryc6472 I was replying to Bert Wald.

No borders! Insanity. 😮 No borders equates to invasions. Otherwise, I agree with the Tech overlords who took over.

@elizabethanderson2968

7 ай бұрын

Not insane, idealist ... but humans are too fkd to get along, so ...

@MarcusDede

7 ай бұрын

Invasions from who? We live in 2023 not 1503 BC. This is why humanity can’t evolve because y’all are all worried about “mine, mine, mine” like a fucking baby.

@3brenm

7 ай бұрын

True, unfortunately. I can't imagine Poland agreeing to no borders. I doubt yanis means no military borders (id assume). But just the free movement of people,not armies.

@janetaylor-powell

7 ай бұрын

Tech cloud doesn’t have borders… I’m with Yannis … one world, one love, no borders ✌🏾❣️ Nearly half of council houses sold off after Thatcher are now in the hands of landlords… (kinda the same sorta situation that the Palestinians found themselves in…) no wonder the anti immigrant feelings, they are seen as getting preferential social housing treatment… because now there’s hardly ANY readily available social housing for the average person…

@aristocraticrebel

7 ай бұрын

The free movement of people is insane.@@3brenm

Always a pleasure to hear Yanis expounding his ideas and robustly defend left wing idealism

I like Varoufakis; however, I would argue that he has succumbed to naivety. He presupposes that all peoples and immigrants are equally beneficial. The irony is that such a movement of people, who do not share his beliefs, will destroy the very liberalism that he yearns towards.

First sign of sanity I’ve seen online for a while.

@MaterialSquid

7 ай бұрын

what video were you watching, can you post a link for the rest of us

@24tommy109

7 ай бұрын

Sue you might be insane if that's your take

@3brenm

7 ай бұрын

​​​@@24tommy109 gaslighting randoms in the comment section. A Good look

@John-iy7xo

7 ай бұрын

​@@3brenmsame could be said for sue. Yanis is a Zionist. That's not exactly same thinking

This reminds me of my idea to create a public Amazon and re-nationalise Royal Mail for delivery. The idea that a single, private, global monopoly should control the digital retail distribution platform in UK is an insane idea. Digital distribution is superior, but Amazon is destroying the high street and sucking wealth out of the nation. There must be a public alternative run in the public interest

@DarkoLuketic

6 ай бұрын

Public Amazon, how would that be different from the current Amazon?

@WarrenPeaceOG

6 ай бұрын

@@DarkoLuketic Rather than everyone using Amazon digital retail distribution platform, everyone would use the public digital retail distribution platform. This is critical economic infrastructure. Rather than profits going to a trillionaire, they go back into the platform and it's workforce and the citizens, who own it. People would choose to shop and sell on the public platform because they are stakeholders, whether that's via dividend cheques or lower prices. Higher wages and workers on boards is a given

@codyvandal2860

6 ай бұрын

@@WarrenPeaceOG They will never allow that as you know. The forces of global capital are more interested in power than profit.

Interesting discussion. Thank you both Yanis Varoufakis and UnHerd.

Yanis waxes eloquently about his example of a co-operative success story and the virtues of a horizontal stakeholder run organisation. Good for them, most of us normal people would think. And indeed, because of the feeedoms we enjoy (albeit in an imperfect society) in the West, there is nothing stopping him or anyone else starting a company and adopting exactly that coroprate famework, if they so wish. I should quickly point out (as many libertarians often do) that the same freedoms are not afforded to enterprising spirirts when the shoe is on the other foot in a centralist/statist system... But the company structure is not really the trick (as anyone who has started a business will tell you); the hard part is actually coming up with a service or product that people will want to buy. And then pricing, marketing and producing it in a profitable and scalable manner over time. Any success is usually modest and experienced after having risked a significant proportion of your capital. And most likely having failed several times over in the process... But that's by the by, as I really don't get the impression Yanis is simply selling the co-operative framework as an idea. I think, instead, he is a reconstructionist - and like most of these lofty utopians, instead of starting a stakeholder business himself (and leading by example), he seems to wish to sell the notion of re-organising society into a set of syndicates (ie worker owned co-operatives). Presumably, this would be with or without the blessing of the people that own these private enterprises. Maybe I'm wrong - but I have listened to Yanis and many other marxists a lot over time. And they never ever seem to lead by example - it's always: 'Here is my vision of society. It's never worked anywere (ever). Let's force everyone to do adopt this model'. People are free to avoid Jeff Bezos' company, if they wish. As is Yanis. There are thousands of alternatives. By the way - you can buy his book 'Technofeudalism' at Amazon for £9.99...

So interesting to hear a man who makes points that I agree and disagree with strongly. Great interview👏

@nickolasgaspar9660

7 ай бұрын

In order to elevate the percentage of agreement with him you will need to criticize his arguments within his suggest system and not how his arguments fit in the current economical system. If we share the same moral convictions then you need to change the system not make up laws so that the system survives its problems.

A great conversation! The world is full of separate matters misunderstood as one.

We're about to witness the total destruction of human artistic expression through algorithms, and so many bootlickers seem to welcome this development.

@ItsRyanStudios

6 ай бұрын

The existence of AI has no effect on my artistic practice. If it only takes the existence of AI to stop someone from painting or writing poetry, they weren't serious about their art practice in the first place. The same could be said about social media and streaming. These things steal our time away, yet the most dedicated still create art.

I've been thinking this for a while now. Rather than the 1700's etc I think we'd be better off looking at the late 1300's in England and collapse of the feudal system. The black death - John Ball, Watt Tyler, the social upheaval where people starting to own their own labour etc etc. The hundred years war can be argued to be a civil war that gave birth to nationalism in England (and France) etc that opposed what was then the 'global capital' of absentee landlords and the Church who didn't even speak the language of the people they extracted rents from. I worry we're heading back to that same system where we all work for wealthy absentee barons who control our means of production. (To make my living I have to rent software from people my government can't control - my living can be switched off on a whim. One could argue I'm now no better than my peasant ancestors toiling in their Lords estate. How the wheel turns eh?)

@elainesanders5450

6 ай бұрын

6:11

@codyvandal2860

6 ай бұрын

This is an astute point. The black death was a key reason why feudalism broke down in the first place. It depended upon the social stability and continuity of land. People didn't travel they worked the same land for the same lord for generations. The destruction of so much of the population meant people moving and surviving in various ways, it also meant military collapse for many centralized political power structures and an increasing reliance on mobile 'mercenary' security forces whose loyalty was less reliable. Labor as you mentioned gained more power by being more scarce and more in demand and *skilled* labor became a critical element for those in charge that had to be respected - think armorers and such. And then the guilds that developed from skilled laborers collaborating rose wages and gave rise to more social mobility. Those "robe nobles" that emerged during that time increasingly displaced the traditional aristocracy as chief servants of the monarchs being considered less threatening and more competent (Cromwell etc) and in the end they got rid of most of the monarchs too.

@JeremyHopes

6 ай бұрын

@@codyvandal2860 You actually put it better than I did...

@crivsmum4820

6 ай бұрын

In fact we may become worse off if the access to water is turned off

As someone who claims he enjoys conversations with people he disagrees with, he doesn’t seem to accept hearing their thoughts. Perhaps he meant to say he enjoys disagreeing with people.

"Cloud Capital" is just data and extracting it is called "data mining." Data mining is 25+ years old. The idea that data has value is not a new idea. What is interesting is the big tech companies created that value. Before big tech, data did not exist and to the extent it existed it was worthless. Tech companies saw potential value and organized it in such a way to create value out of nothing. Kinda like crude oil was worthless before we figured out how to extract kerosene for lamps and we dumped the gasoline in the rivers as a waste product because gasoline was worthless before internal combustion engines.

@jollyyeholiver1599

7 ай бұрын

Yes it's surveillance capital, and there are many solutions to it, ths Yanis doesn't consider, the cloud can be taken into public ownership, all the data could be made encrypted and illegal to harvest. The cloud could be taxed, or you could make an open source public commons cloud, that everyone has a stake in, including the companies that Amazon is currently ripping off.

@andrewbaldwin4454

7 ай бұрын

@@lavalavalavalavalava I would remunerate you if I was rich, 5xlava, but I'm not, so I can't. I do like a lot of your comments, though.

@buglepong

7 ай бұрын

one could argue advertising was the beginning of this phenomenon. commercial advertising is easily over a century old

He lost me at the ad hominem attacks. The most dangerous thing he said though was "We Europeans exported hoards of people. We emigrated to the four corners of the planet. We populated the earth. Millions, usually armed as well, as imperialists. We had no qualms about that for a thousand years." This "we" that implicitly makes people alive today somehow responsible for the actions of people they never met is extremely dangerous. It is the mentality of every populist who uses historical offences to justify present day atrocities. It makes people view themselves and eachother not as the individuals they are today, but as the avatars of oppressors and victims who "looked like them" in the past and who therefore have not just permission but an obligation to either pay for or avenge the injustices committed by their historical lookalikes. Disgusting.

@os3984

7 ай бұрын

Everything that happens today happens in historical context. You can't understand ww3 if you don't know history and what happens outside of 'the west' and what has happened there. WW1 happened which was the start of the end of colonial era, WW2 was direct consequense of WW1. WW3 is a consequense of the post WW2 neo colonial era.

@Bebu-Vijianu

7 ай бұрын

@@os3984 the study of history is appropriate and necessary. Referring to historical people as "we" is the opposite.

@noraanderson3503

5 ай бұрын

I agree with you and I am Greek. I don't know why I keep giving this guy second chances. I keep listening to him talk to make sure I am not unjustly biased against him but this guy is dangerous. He calls himself an 'internationalist' and advocates for open borders - calls the debate on immigration misanthropic - when it is evident that Europe and England are being overrun by illegal immigrants most of whom refuse to assimilate or respect the indigenous populations and are causing massive problems. He should hang his head in shame. Instead he accuses Suella Braverman of being a terrible human being. Oh Yannis, take a hard look in the mirror, man. Freddie is correct to point out that his ideas eerily resemble the Chinese reward/point system and that his opinions are idealistic. I would say they are dangerously naive. He has luxury beliefs. Lives in the most expensive neighborhood in Athens, he is married to a millionaire's daughter (tobacco industrialist 😂) and can take a jet out of Greece at any time things get tricky. What a hypocritical muppet!

I agree with a lot of what he says about the power of our new techno-feudal overlords. What I find it hard to agree with is his argument that the removal of borders would help to diminish feudalist power. I don't see how! Maybe it is a necessary long-term ideal to strive for. But what would happen in the short-term if borders were removed? Small countries like Lithuania and Taiwan (among many others) would be swept into oblivion by their more powerful neighbors. Borders do not only keep immigrants out (which you could argue is a bad thing), but they are also fences against the voracious land-grabbing ambitions of pariahs like Russia and. China (which is a good thing).

@pse2020

6 ай бұрын

Well if we dont become internationailsts, we will all soon live in digital borders between, mark Zuckerberg, elon musk, jeff bezos, bill gates and so on...

@poornoodle9851

6 ай бұрын

Borders don’t actually exist. They are made up. What makes them “real” is that we believe in them. He’s saying that if we stop believing in borders they stop existing and the techno-feudalists will have less power. Basically it’s “techno-laborers of the world unite”. It also requires everyone to unite…Americans, Europeans, Chinese and Russian…the common people are not enemies…they have everything in common.

@kiwikemist

5 ай бұрын

Brainwashed by anti China MSM lol

Love UnHerd and the level of discussions. Great interview!

It was difficult for Freddie to get in full sentences and he showed great patience with his guest.

@jamessmith1652

7 ай бұрын

For once Freddie had a guest capable of schooling him.

@raulvasquez2036

6 ай бұрын

@@jamessmith1652You think he got schooled? He completely shrugged off the China model with a "it scares me," then proceeded as if the Chinese model wasn't THE model we are headed for: total illiberalism. That is one contradiction. Two, he seemed completely ignorant of current US border policy which is not to arrest illegal immigrants, but let them in wholesale (hence crises in NYC and Chicago). He doesn't see the mechanism at play which are enabling, even organizing caravans of migrants (an invisible hand which is forcing crises-- these migrant flows are not merely the outcome of natural political crises or economic ones, but are being enabled by forces which have something to gain. His open border policy ignores the success Japan had in the 1800s. Freddie allowed his guest to spin his yarn, prodded on questions many of us had and have still. All in all Yanis seemed like he'd spent too much time in the intellectual clouds and not enough with his boots on the ground. Thought provoking and interesting, but inconsistent.

@qMartink

6 ай бұрын

Couldnt disagree more. Hes on the ground. He has elaborated on border situation in other interviews. But why do you think we have so many migrants at our borders? Why have certain central and south american countries experienced prolonged destabilization?@@raulvasquez2036

@nicheman3612

6 ай бұрын

Because he was out-matched.

@jacobwatson3781

6 ай бұрын

Freddie simply got exposed for only being able to stay within his talking points. Freddie's can't swim deep, he has to stay in the surface

At this point my question is: If technofeudalism is becoming the system, isn't it inevitable a new revolution? What I mean is people will rebel and heads will roll.

Two things tell you everything you need to know about him: 1. He was finance minister of Greece (if you don't understand what that means, look up Greek finance situation) and 2. when an idea comes up he doesn't like, he's the opposite of rational, he name calls and says that there can be no tolerance for ideas he doesn't like.

@51gan788

6 ай бұрын

You've really exposed yourself there for knowing nothing of Greece's financial situation when he took over. I implore you to do some research in that regard. Furthermore I assume your second point is his reaction to the topic of immigration being brought up? If it was then you'd have to be more specific on what he said that was irrational. Without doubt immigration has long been used as a scapegoat by the powerful to excuse problems caused by austerity, market failures and other negative market externalities.

@noraanderson3503

5 ай бұрын

I agree with you and I am Greek. I don't know why I keep giving this guy second chances. I keep listening to him talk to make sure I am not unjustly biased against him but this guy is dangerous. He calls himself an 'internationalist' and advocates for open borders - calls the debate on immigration misanthropic - when it is evident that Europe and England are being overrun by illegal immigrants most of whom refuse to assimilate or respect the indigenous populations and are causing massive problems. He should hang his head in shame. Instead he accuses Suella Braverman of being a terrible human being. Oh Yannis, take a hard look in the mirror, man. Freddie is correct to point out that his ideas eerily resemble the Chinese reward/point system and that his opinions are idealistic. I would say they are dangerously naive. He has luxury beliefs. Lives in the most expensive neighborhood in Athens, he is married to a millionaire's daughter (tobacco industrialist 😂) and can take a jet out of Greece at any time things get tricky. What a hypocritical muppet!

I find it healthy to listen to someone who you have little to agree with.

@Masszay

7 ай бұрын

Because he's a progressive and you're a regressive?

@Squalla1

7 ай бұрын

Because he actually knows what he's talking about, while you simply parrot reactionary discourse in a knee-jerk fashion without so much as a shard of understanding of historic process and economics?

@lasttango7522

7 ай бұрын

​@@MasszayTutt tutt. You pesky totalitarians just can't help yourselves. Uni culture. Bed time now. Stop displaying your anxieties.

@Squalla1

7 ай бұрын

@@lasttango7522 What is totalitarian about progressivism? Genuine question.

@lasttango7522

7 ай бұрын

@@Squalla1 The word progressivism is banded around by many people who are bad actors in our society. When you dig further what they really are is totalitarian. What is your definition of progressivism?

Can you make these interviews longer?

Interesting conversation, marred by the anger/loathing/hatred and defensiveness that came out at the end (all while denouncing "false consciousness" in others. Just saying).

Interesting that Yanis was first a Remainer to later then accept and agree with the need for Brexit. This considering his direct hands on experience in dealing with, being bullied by and standing up to the banking powers that really drive the EU is something for Remoaners to consider.

@peabody3000

7 ай бұрын

who says Yanis accepts the so-called "need" for brexit?? weeks ago he wrote another clear refutation of it, as he lamented what is bound to become permanent divisions within the UK society and classes

Respectfully Yanis, consider the scale and the nuanced fears people are presently living with. The number of humans on earth today makes the need for borders obvious. The comparison to the past when there were no borders, does not equate with the present.

@keithparker1346

7 ай бұрын

So in theory what size population would mean getting rid of borders?

@kiwikemist

5 ай бұрын

​@@keithparker1346they probably want to depopulate the earth of non whites

Techno Feudalism is real and every huge conglomerate is trying to build a huge platform so it can rent cloud space to small businesses that become their pawns. Amazon does that with sellers, Aliexpress , Temu do the Same, Food Delivery companies do the same with restaurants , Microsoft does the same on many fronts like windows, xbox game pass , Meta does it with their marketplaces in Facebook and Instagram and now the Metaverse , Valve with Steam etc. They all want a giant eplatform that does nearly 0 work apart from the initial build up and gathering people, business and then just makes money off small business.

I admire Freddie Sayers letting Yanis Varoufakis speak for ages. He's committed to free speech. However, Varoufakis isn't. So how do we sort out that massive problem?

@paulaustinmurphy

7 ай бұрын

@@lavalavalavalavalava His final remark is gospel? Why?

@paulaustinmurphy

7 ай бұрын

@@lavalavalavalavalava It may have something to him saying that Tories he disagrees with should be kicked out - if those Tories have brown skin

@paulaustinmurphy

7 ай бұрын

@@lavalavalavalavalava The radical left is just as committed to the 'no platform' policy as Nazis are.

@nickolasgaspar9660

7 ай бұрын

@@paulaustinmurphy You are accusation is null.

@paulaustinmurphy

7 ай бұрын

@@nickolasgaspar9660 I don't understand your reply. Rewrite it, and then I'll reply.

Would be great to hear Yanis talk with Gary Stevenson. He is an oxford grad/trader millionaire. And he has a KZread channel called Gary's economics. His method of fixing things via a democratic socialist lens is to simply tax fixed assets. This has recently been very effective to get tax from Russian oligarchs.

He thinks we should not have borders but also thinks Braverman should be “expelled” from the country… how could we expel anyone without borders they could come straight back lol

@paulhamrick3943

7 ай бұрын

He’s an idiot nonsensical radical leftist, it’s sad so many people take him seriously.

@troymackenzie6263

7 ай бұрын

I'm pretty sure that's just rhetorical.

@tommoody728

6 ай бұрын

@@troymackenzie6263 his analysis of “cloud capital” is fascinating and insightful but his comments on immigration seem purely emotional without any substance at all.

@noraanderson3503

5 ай бұрын

I don't know why I keep giving this guy second chances. I keep listening to him talk to make sure I am not unjustly biased against him but this guy is dangerous. He calls himself an 'internationalist' and advocates for open borders - calls the debate on immigration misanthropic - when it is evident that Europe and England are being overrun by illegal immigrants most of whom refuse to assimilate or respect the indigenous populations and are causing massive problems. He should hang his head in shame. Instead he accuses Suella Braverman of being a terrible human being. Oh Yannis, take a hard look in the mirror, man. Freddie is correct to point out that his ideas eerily resemble the Chinese reward/point system and that his opinions are idealistic. I would say they are dangerously naive. He has luxury beliefs. Lives in the most expensive neighborhood in Athens, he is married to a millionaire's daughter (tobacco industrialist 😂) and can take a jet out of Greece at any time things get tricky. What a hypocritical muppet!

Yanis has the ability to explain concepts like technofeudalism in a way that removes the spectre of partisan tribalism and reduces it to a simple right vs wrong.

My issue with Mr. Varoufakis is he consistently misses an important element. For example when he say things like each employee of a company gets a share, what is the incentive to set up a company if they themselves do not have any control over it? He's also a big proponent of Digital ID. But never even seems to consider the possiblity it can be used against you were you to disagree with the creators/managers of it or use your funds in a manner which, the bank of England in an example from him previously, did not seem appropriate? ESPECIALLY considering the past few years. I do like Mr.Varoufakis but some of his ideas are naive to put it nicely.

@Squalla1

7 ай бұрын

The necessity of a financial incentive (e.g. exclusive ownership) to create something is a scenario framed by a liberal perspective. We should be aiming higher as a society, and in fact cooperative organizations (both for-profit and otherwise) do exist today, even in capitalism. Such investments can be encouraged by state subsidies.

@dennisvlahos

6 ай бұрын

You rewrite corporate law to enforce cooperatives

@shanehickey8951

6 ай бұрын

@@dennisvlahos utopian thinking

@dennisvlahos

6 ай бұрын

@@shanehickey8951 as utopian as the abolition of slavery sounded like to an american settler, or liberal democracy to a feudal peasant. But here we are.

@shanehickey8951

6 ай бұрын

@@dennisvlahos I'd imagine there would be some push back against the total restructuring of the organizations that hold the greatest collection of wealth the world has ever seen who at the same time are almost entirely responsible for upholding western governments by floating their GDP figures, supplying their defense forces and subcontractors for the majority of state services. Like I said Utopian thinking.

Thank you guys 😄✊

im really curious about what he thinks of that mass immigration in europe and all the Violence and civil unrest that has caused.. I admire some left ideas, but the world is not same heavenly place with only good people and good intentions. Actions have consequences, we now reap those consequences.

@zuz-ve4ro

6 ай бұрын

it didn't. impoverishment of immigrants (and others in austerity collateral) did

@noraanderson3503

5 ай бұрын

I agree with you and I am Greek. I don't know why I keep giving this guy second chances. I keep listening to him talk to make sure I am not unjustly biased against him but this guy is dangerous. He calls himself an 'internationalist' and advocates for open borders - calls the debate on immigration misanthropic - when it is evident that Europe and England are being overrun by illegal immigrants most of whom refuse to assimilate or respect the indigenous populations and are causing massive problems. He should hang his head in shame. Instead he accuses Suella Braverman of being a terrible human being. Oh Yannis, take a hard look in the mirror, man. Freddie is correct to point out that his ideas eerily resemble the Chinese reward/point system and that his opinions are idealistic. I would say they are dangerously naive. He has luxury beliefs. Lives in the most expensive neighborhood in Athens, he is married to a millionaire's daughter (tobacco industrialist 😂) and can take a jet out of Greece at any time things get tricky. What a hypocritical muppet!

I also love when people say "of the left" and frame it as people of the left won't debate their points. Now it's funny that people who say that always get destroyed by "the left". The right just can't defend their points and get exposed for their grift.

This presenter was patient and open minded enough and that allowed him to get Yannis to give some of his most succinct and insightful answes to date.

When you visist someone you knock on the door... you do not crawl thru an open window.

I hope. I really do hope. That Freddie and the audience realize what Yanis is talking about here already happened, for real, decades ago.

I love Yanis for putting forward provocative ideas and interesting information. Sometimes you just need to let things that are failing and falling go. Humanity is on a journey to unlearn what it thinks and remember what it knows 🙏

@nickolasgaspar9660

7 ай бұрын

and use them as a blackbox in order to understand what went wrong and avoid it in the future.

@januarysson5633

6 ай бұрын

Yanis: “Suella Braverman should be expelled from the country”. Also Yanis: “I don’t believe in safe spaces”.

Quite like Yanis. Entertained the idea of not liking him, but can’t push through the fact that I do - like his ideas and his demeanour. Good chat.

Hi Freddie, Each time I start one of your videos I am immediately affected by the calm sensible way you speak, then your guest starts to talk and I begin to find it hard to listen to what either of you are actually saying just because the sound is so good!. Now having sat and listened for a few minutes I hear him talking about the transition from feudalism to 'capitalism', firstly I suspect he is conflating capitalism with industrialisation, that too is now transitioning to 'corporatism', in all there scenarios I see common denominators in terms of the persistent efforts of a small number of individuals to establish authority by the implementation of instruments of power by domination, that perennial desire to take 'control'. Many years ago I was introduced to the concept of power in terms of its forms, simplistically in one of two forms expressed as 'power over' and 'power to', this struck a chord for me then and still does now in so far as I understand the power that I have 'to' implement and activate strategies of influence is by enabling those around me to do what they think best, I might be instrumental in providing information and in that way exert 'control' the alternative which I dis-avow is the application of power over, whereby I would opt for simply issuing 'orders' to the 'troops' that they must obey. There are two or three ways in which this strategy might hold ground, one the masters get to express their narcissistic vanity by being 'in charge' two the 'workers' might be content to simply obey orders because that is much simpler and easier than working things out properly. A third one is related to expedience, for some strange reason humans are always in a desperate hurry!, action must be taken now, the quality of that action is subordinate to the speed. There may also be some other underlying human characteristic in play relating to the difference between our capacity to think and act rationally and our ability to respond on pure impulse. How this might work in normal life goes well enough most of the time when impulsive response does no real damage because most normal domestic situations are not strategically or environmentally critical. The problems only really arise when people who are familiar with simplistic operating systems attempt to apply the same ideology to more complex dynamic political, medical and economic situations measures based on desire and impulse without sensible rational foundation always fail!, they can usually be propped up for a while by the desperate efforts of the working population but without substantial secure foundation they will always collapse, this means that all totalitarian management systems are all doomed!, in the end it always become impossible to paper over all the cracks, in the end all forms of centralised control fall apart. No matter how much we want to be able to levitate we simply cannot do that!, in exactly the same way we cannot ignore any other aspect of reality for very long. If capitalism or any other 'ism' actually worked it would be working and all would be well. Cheers, Richard.

@davidgough3512

Ай бұрын

digital commerce and a.i. a viral nonentity that we gleefully channeled for convenience and are now unable to deviate from; there is no competitive advantage to abandoning the platform that acts as universal cheap middleman/ matchmaker/interface which can take on any volume, explore every last tiny niche opportunity and offer a better deal even at a loss for the data gain, scrapes our free input, outperforms most other marketing strategies and by virtue of subsuming alternatives, extracts rent.

@richardharvey1732

Ай бұрын

@@davidgough3512 Hi David Gough, thank you for your contribution, it is just this willing compliance in the service to tyranny that most intrigues me, just why are so many people so happy to dig themselves into deep dark rabbit holes from which they cannot escape?. Could it be that many other people also find themselves in a persistent state of misery the origin of which is most likely to be metabolic circumstance, they resort to self-sacrifice to the Gods of oblivion so that they can at least point a finger at outside forces and thus never have to confront their own emotional reality. I have yet to find the relevant page in the instruction manual that explains why humans must have happy lives!, and just what is wrong with misery, actually I have not yet found that manual. I write this in this manner because it does seem to me that the 'creators' of these fictional instruments of exploitation do so because the opportunity is presented by foolish people convinced that they are entitled to a life of ease and satisfaction no effort required. Cheers, Richard.

Maybe I'm just so radical, but Yanis' ideas themselves sound so moderate to me that I can't believe there can be someone like Freddie that is so apprehensive as to call a relatively slight modification like what Yanis is proposing as too idealist or radical, especially when it's already integrated into the system, even if on a not so impressive scale. I guess neoliberalism, capitalism, whatever you wanna call it (or as I like to call it - keepthingsthesame-ism), is one hell of a drug.

Speaking as a Libertarian who would be considered on the right here in the US, I found his position fascinating, particularly in its divergence from the political norm. He is a self-professed Marxist but speaks like an anarcho-capitalist. The video game firm he described may be the first true utopia, but I believe the reason their structure works is that it is a sufficiently small group, highly motivated to work together frictionlessly by their high revenue per employee (member?), something that must continuously remind them of how special their organization is and how important it is to cooperate to preserve it. Increase the size, reduce the profits, and admit less rational or intelligent people and I fear human nature would lead to its demise, just as it would in any real society structured this way.

@jimmieoakland3843

6 ай бұрын

I agree. The reasons a company succeeds or fails are myriad, particularly in tech. His assumption that the company he worked for was wildly successful solely because of its structure is, to me, somewhat doubtful. It may be the case, but it may be that the particular structure produced solutions that worked for that time, in that place, and in that market. Anyone who has worked in different jobs or even has been involved in associations of any sort knows that the group dynamic is very important to success, and as you point out, that depends on the personal qualities of the individuals.

@tbayley6

6 ай бұрын

Beware of idealists I guess :)

@3brenm

6 ай бұрын

I'd say he speaks like a libertarian leftist personally (highly sceptical of private economic power, but not an advocate of vanguards etc) But there are some similarities between the lib left and lib right

@Muzikman127

6 ай бұрын

I really recommend you read his books, some of them are very accessible and just well-worth reading. Another Now is fiction and I'm sure you'll enjoy it. "Talking to my daughter about the Economy" is an economic book for a general audience, I'm sure you'll disagree with a fair amount of and will challenge you, but I think you'll probably enjoy it too

@Muzikman127

6 ай бұрын

and for more dry/technical literature, "the global minotaur" and "and the weak suffer what they must" are about monetary and economic policy, and certainly worth reading (if reading longer books about monetary policy is your bag haha)

I really like Yanis and his ideas, but I do think they are difficult to fully understand on the first pass. For most of the video he seemed patient and explained himself very well, but when he got too much pushback from Freddie, he seemed to lose some of that patience, unfortunately. When you are trying to explain something that requires a revolutionary change in perspective, it does require a lot of finesse. It would be better if he Yanis could have taken the time to steelman Freddie argument and confront it in good faith. Nevertheless,I think I understand and admire his vision, but there are also some questions about how to realize that vision from a practical standpoint. Thanks for having him on.

I respect Varoufakis so much, specially after being one of the few that with simple words called apartheid at what israel is doing at gaza ,compared to people that always speak so refined like zizek but in the end betrayed what they are supposed to represent just to keep a academy seat.

22:18 This is indeed a good example. The brands with cloud capital are able to improve and innovate their products by using the information these cars and their users put in that cloud. They get continuous feedback! As just a car producer, you cannot match that.

@grolstum211

7 ай бұрын

Every single comment ( this included), post, story, video, map info, shop review etc someone makes the cloud feuds, that someone is working for free increasing their value.

@scottwatrous7649

7 ай бұрын

The problem is that given what he asserts he doesn't go on to say "and hence no one class has a right to direct your productivity" but instead he suggests that what Yugoslav Mr. Djilas called "The New Class" should direct us. And, of course, he fully intends to be in the vanguard of the "New Class." Never ever a worker/owner but rather a boss or intellectual lackey of the boss.

@robertholland7558

7 ай бұрын

You all realise that the “cloud” is a name for a physical object consisting of massive computer data storage facilities that consume massive amounts of energy, and combined are as big as a 1000 Wembley stadia, if not more. And as a physical object it can easily fail or be destroyed.

@TheEmmef

7 ай бұрын

​@@robertholland7558 Of course. And naturally, it can be destroyed. The question is if we should. Maybe just change the rules regarding ownership or control of it. But I have no good answer to what we should do. I just observe that _as an owner_ you have a lot of comparable benefits.

@TheEmmef

7 ай бұрын

@@grolstum211 Darn. Even this one? ;-)

Double entry accounting is 700 years old. Western countries could have made accounting mandatory in the schools since Sputnik. When have you heard an economist, educator or politician suggest such a thing?

@keithparker1346

7 ай бұрын

Most people are mathematically economically and politically illiterate

@psikeyhackr6914

7 ай бұрын

@@keithparker1346 Maybe, but how many people who can do calculus don't know accounting? Our economists do not really do it since they ignore the depreciation of durable consumer goods. Where is the data on the annual depreciation of automobiles purchased by consumers since Sputnik? How many countries do economists manage to not compute that for?

@keithparker1346

7 ай бұрын

@@psikeyhackr6914 I think you are missing my point

@psikeyhackr6914

7 ай бұрын

@@keithparker1346 I guess you will have to sharpen it more.

@robertholland7558

7 ай бұрын

@@psikeyhackr6914the depreciation is expressed as debt when one purchases a replacement vehicle at inflated values.

For some reason, I always dismissed him, but I started listening to the podcast while doing my house chores (further feeding the algorithm, but what can you do about it) and the first thing that caught me attention was his great English. The greeks I know talk with a very thick accent, but his was smooth and very educated. Then I listen to his ideas, and started seeing some truth to then. I didn’t even know there was anything known as as Internationalism, and now I just discovered that all my life I’ve been one. Thanks for this episodes. There are a few things I’m not sure I agree with him, but it’s plenty of food for thought.

Yanis probably lost a lot at the end when he intoned a classic modern liberal trap: those that disagree with modern liberal ideas have no place selling their ideas (his comments on the UK politician and anti-immigration logic). The worst was the implicit suggestion that his liberal ideas are so 'natural' and 'inevitable' that they surpass democratic laws. The anger on his face when Freddie did any sort of pushback was scary to behold. Utopian fundamentalism should always be questioned, especially when it neglects pragmatic human dynamics. You can sell it as a beautiful idea, but not everyone who doesn't drink the kool-aid is mad. Kudos to Freddie for maintaining decorum. I wonder how one could ever politely push back when push back is felt and considered beyond the pale hate, bigotry, and malignant idiocracy.

Thank you Freddie another brilliant and intellectually challenging conversation. Well done.

As intelligent and interesting as Varoufakis’ ideas are, and I don’t disagree with many of them, I find his final statements extremely ironic. His suggestion that people have an open dialogue one with another and discuss even the most controversial topics together was not something he himself is practicing. He talked over Freddie the entire interview. Regardless of his reasoning for doing so, I think his presumption that he is having conversations with others instead of having a “talking at encounter” that he feels resembles a conversation because there are two or more people present, is unfortunate. I’m all for controversial discussions, but discussion is too strong a word for what took place in this interview.

@softcolly8753

6 ай бұрын

Agreed. "You are denigrating my ideas", yet didn't do anything to clarify. He did this a number of times, along with a number of strawman arguments about why people oppose immigration.

@chrisdickens4268

6 ай бұрын

That's nonsense, when Freddy asserted a statement that he claimed was what yanis said or at least meant yanis is perfectly entitled to correct it. Unless you mean when Freddy described globalisation as a new concept and yanis points out it was described by marx... when someone is plain wrong they are plain wrong, Freddy didn't argue and was quite content at the explanations

@heathermc1049

6 ай бұрын

He was rude to freddie throughout. Also, said he doesn't agree with borders yet also said Suella should be kicked out the country. Which implies he does agree with borders?!?! Hmmmm

@noraanderson3503

5 ай бұрын

I don't know why I keep giving this guy second chances. I keep listening to him talk to make sure I am not unjustly biased against him but this guy is dangerous. He calls himself an 'internationalist' and advocates for open borders - calls the debate on immigration misanthropic - when it is evident that Europe and England are being overrun by illegal immigrants most of whom refuse to assimilate or respect the indigenous populations and are causing massive problems. He should hang his head in shame. Instead he accuses Suella Braverman of being a terrible human being. Oh Yannis, take a hard look in the mirror, man. Freddie is correct to point out that his ideas eerily resemble the Chinese reward/point system and that his opinions are idealistic. I would say they are dangerously naive. He has luxury beliefs. Lives in the most expensive neighborhood in Athens, he is married to a millionaire's daughter (tobacco industrialist 😂) and can take a jet out of Greece at any time things get tricky. What a hypocritical muppet!

He's not much of an economist given that he didn't mention antitrust law once, which is the "standard of economic care" for the kind of monopoly power he's concerned about. Now the standard of care can be wrong, but he has to demonstrate that.

@DylanYoung

7 ай бұрын

Instead, his "solution" to technocracy is greater technocracy. This is a hallmark of controlled opposition. It's like how government and corporate executives fail up: "the education system is broken; let's put more money into it!"

@kiwikemist

5 ай бұрын

​@@DylanYoungyou're right, we should have a Idiocracy, a government run by idiots who don't know anything about their positions in government...oh wait every "liberal" Western "democracy" already has that!

Such an interesting conversation. Yannis introduces some fascinating analysis about how our world is changing. Freddie, as ever, manages a powerful dialogue. The example of the tech company in America voting on everything, was fascinating. We need fresh thinking about economics and how to manage our politics. In its own (small?) way, UnHerd is helping in this.

@suburbanyobbo9412

6 ай бұрын

>”fascinating analysis” The debunked claims of a failed and corrupt minister are not fascinating.

I admire Yanis enormously but I had to smile when he said "your Roumanian neighbour". My daughter in law has Roumanian neighbours whose cultural practices include very loud parties in the garden all summer, music, smoking that wafts into her house, shouting, laughter etc, all of which make her miserable. Of course many indigenous citizens do this too, but the gulf between her cultural practices and theirs makes resolving such issues very difficult. My guess is that Yanis probably has very nice considerate neighbours, of whatever nationality. He said he likes to talk to people who disagree with him, so I'm inviting him here to talk with me about some of the problems which I think unlimited immigration present.

@nicheman3612

6 ай бұрын

I live in Barcelona - what do you think the English people here are like ?

"Once upon a time there were no passports." Yes and during that time there were no planes, no internal combustion engine and no ability for masses of people to move. That's why I don't take this guy seriously. He's smart enough to know the answer to that rhetorical question. So, I don't trust him.

@F--B

7 ай бұрын

He's arguing from a political standpoint at the end of the day. The format is familiar: describe the landscape in a relatively neutral manner, then offer a political interpretation.

"Borders are a sign of failure of human species" and he thinks that by just removing the sign/symptom (the borders), he'll fix the failure?

@frankdayton731

6 ай бұрын

This sophist doesn't understand the nature of *nature* ! Borders are an essential part of any social species.

Freddie , sorry to change the subject , where did you buy your shirt from ?

Great discussion with so many ideas. Thought it strange how Yanis dismissed as impossible the idea that people can unplug from the matrix and live a life closer to nature, but then goes on to talk about a fantasy world without borders where people and goods move freely. That’s the eternal problem of Marxism. It’s an idea that never translates into real life. As long as you plug into the world of technology, giving it your time, your money and information you are it’s potential slave or addict. It’s like your health. If you believe technology and new drugs will make you healthy you’re dependant on these drugs. But if you make personal choices to eat well, exercise, destress, and sleep better you don’t need drugs. As to techno feudalism one solution is to buy local, not online. Work in your community for the benefit of the community. Or if you work at a distance do something that life promoting and rewarding beyond financial return. Don’t participate in your subjugation. Top down solutions from techno feudalism Capitalism or communism squash crush and control whilst selling and telling you that they’ll make you free. Growth only ever comes from grass-roots ground-up movements.

@miejeen

6 ай бұрын

I like your comment and wanted to tell you instead of just putting a 👍 up. 🙃

For those thinking the video game company is a somewhat thin/ idealistic example, take a look at the Mondragon Coop federation (look at their wiki). The success of Mondragon is not about small group dynamics or the specific market niche of tech/videogames, as might be the case of the video game company Yanis brings up. Mondragon might be a better example of large scale democratic principles in the workplace, less exploitative ownership-structure than your standard company and accountability of authority within management (without the pure idealization of “no management”).

Good shows i like them but why are they so short? Always feels rushed and incomplete, some guests, particularly this one remain properly unchallenged

Even though I don’t agree with everything he says 1) I respect his courage in speaking friely about his ideas, 2) I respect the fact his ideas are not mainstream and pre-fabricated, while this is the case with 99% of the people I know and 3) I think he offers very interesting views and perspectives. This world needs more people like him, more free-thinkers who don’t just follow trends and can think with their own brain. Instead we have a lot of brainwashed followers of mainstream ideas who need other people to tell them what they should think about pretty much everything.

There is one piece of legislation which is common to capitalist societies, which I never understood - that is a completely metaphysical concept of "judicial person", which is precisely not a person, but a aggregate of capital and people. Yet before the law it is granted the same privileges as an individual human being. This sort of perversion of individuality, which is in the very heart of the legal system, is what drives the technocratic dehumanization. Our law is written to undermine individuals. We live by the language of law which is purposefully written to allow crime, like exploitation. And we should all be focused on that language, on demanding logic, reason, morality, accountability in this language. That is why the political marketing makes sure, year after year, to come up with new meaningless "social issue" that drives the headlines, and buries the actual political points that should be up for debate. People need to read law, understand the implication of fundamental legal ideas, and how we must not allow ourselves to be caught in discussion about cosmetic issues. We must challenge, time and again the logical inconsistencies purposefully written into the law. Challenge the language that governs us.

19:40 First, something "that is a good thing" is not always realisable.What _can_ we control or change and _what not?_ Second, borders differentiate between what comes through and what not. Are we talking about goods, people, digitized capital (finance), or information? I think we need to be very precise when talking about what should and should not be shared internationally.

I should have added - well done Freddie.

It is a fascinating topic, as there are a number of positive features to a corporation like Amazon as well. For example, the range an ease of self-publishing on demand via Kindle has created a thriving literary industry absent of gatekeepers and prohibitive overhead costs.

I'm still not sure we could call it techno-feudalism (TF) whilst there is still competition in the cloud space. I have the choice of which marketplace I go to when buying something, and very few items are exclusively on one platform. Or I have the decision to simply not buy from these online marketplaces at all. I think something can only truly be called TF in cases like Amazon Web Services, which host some of the largest and most used websites in the world. But even then, it's not like there aren't other options, so I'm not sure this can be called TF either. Maybe KZread is the one example of a monopoly in the digital space. There is no competition for long form video services. Surely in order to be considered TF there has to be some authoritarian force placed upon a person compelling them to use a particular service. That can only come through a government. For all of his talk on TF, I'm shocked that Yanis does not even touch upon the very obvious and real threat of governments using and abusing people through ever more oppressive technological structures and surveillance measures. All he says is that he's not a big fan of the Chinese system... Does he not see the obvious and existential threat that poses, not to mention the self-evident requirement for a government to be complicit in the creation of techno-monopolies. Naturally arriving at a monopoly is nigh impossible without any interference, yet with lobbying and favours we've somehow been left in the position of about 5 or 6 companies owning the majority of the internet. Gee, I wonder how that happened! A system like Valve's democratic system might work for a smaller, low-stakes company like a video game manufacturer, but how on earth is that going to work when it comes to defence companies, medical companies, or large companies in general. Valve has a (relatively) small staff who are largely highly specialised on video games, so of course that system is going to be more effective there. When your product requires even more specialised knowledge and training and a much higher percentage of your staff are lower skilled labourers, do you really think you are going to get a system that is going to survive?

@pse2020

6 ай бұрын

We are still in a transition period, this will take full form once ai realy takes of.

What a brilliant conversation. Yanis, excellent as always, but Freddie also doing a great job of really pushing him on his most uptopian ideas and perhaps even to the point where he lost his usual steadiness and calm. This is what debates should look like.

@softcolly8753

6 ай бұрын

The problem being that Yanis pretty much dismissed them and ignored them.

@marcpuricelli

6 ай бұрын

@@softcolly8753 Yes, like every other thinker he's probably wrong about a lot of things. He's also quite humble in recognizing the areas where he has failed. But he's an incredibly imaginative and creative thinker that I really enjoy listening to.

@softcolly8753

6 ай бұрын

@@marcpuricelli I didn't find him humble at all, he just dismissed Freddy's criticisms without any explanation.

This is a groundbreaking moment. More of this please ❤

@sheltr9735

6 ай бұрын

You had merely to indicate your interest in it As Yannis indicates, not that you've created that data, the Cloud will take over now It will send its slaves to fulfill your interest So easy, isn't it...? We are truly fcuked

I feel proud for my self for buying his book global minotaur at 2009 when nobody knows nothing about him.. And am here to tell you... You see yanis varoufakis book? BUY IT...

Very insightful thoughts!

"No borders", "Expel her from the country", OK right.

@costasrex476

7 ай бұрын

Ostracizing is as old as time

@paulaustinmurphy

7 ай бұрын

@@costasrex476 Borders are as old as time.

Sitting on an elite throne and looking down but never mix with people down there who struggle for their existence is what this man represents.

@Masszay

7 ай бұрын

Ad hominem. Make a point.

@lolcat5303

7 ай бұрын

@@Masszay she did, it went flying over your empty skull... oop another ad hom

@keithparker1346

7 ай бұрын

What elite throne?

@noraanderson3503

5 ай бұрын

I don't know why I keep giving this guy second chances. I keep listening to him talk to make sure I am not unjustly biased against him but this guy is dangerous. He calls himself an 'internationalist' and advocates for open borders - calls the debate on immigration misanthropic - when it is evident that Europe and England are being overrun by illegal immigrants most of whom refuse to assimilate or respect the indigenous populations and are causing massive problems. He should hang his head in shame. Instead he accuses Suella Braverman of being a terrible human being. Oh Yannis, take a hard look in the mirror, man. Freddie is correct to point out that his ideas eerily resemble the Chinese reward/point system and that his opinions are idealistic. I would say they are dangerously naive. He has luxury beliefs. Lives in the most expensive neighborhood in Athens, he is married to a millionaire's daughter (tobacco industrialist 😂) and can take a jet out of Greece at any time things get tricky. What a hypocritical muppet!

Interesting! I like to her his thoughts because they differ from the main view. Just a bit to short. Would like to have heard more.

His analogy of tech feudalism is interesting. But I get the sense he's driving this theory so he can finally justify calling himself a Marxist in the 21st century. Comparing a 19th century serf to a contemporary consumer is extreme to say the least.

@poornoodle9851

6 ай бұрын

He’s not comparing quality of life…it’s power dynamics.

I enjoyed that. Yanis got pretty unhinged from around 27 min onwards. Credit to Freddie for being polite and restrained - the more Yanis spoke, the more obvious it was that his arguments were weak and he couldn’t be taken seriously.

@kparis7376

6 ай бұрын

Yanis is a typical Greek leftist 'intellectual'. Shifty and dishonest, filled with complexes that he himself cannot see.

It is always a pleasure to listen to an uninterrupted unfolding of Yani's thoughts. The exact opposite of what is happening during his few minutes presence in greek media with their unprofessional, antidemocratic journalists.

Thank you.

I'd like to first say that Giannis Varoufakis is a highly intelligent man, very charismatic, wise, and I agree with many things he says. His analysis of where capitalism has moved to a new form of feudalism, and the Amazon example he provides is spot on and demonstrates a really unique and original insight into the modern world. He is right that there is no true real market anymore. However, on a number of points he is not only wrong but possibly guilty of hubris (to use a term coined by his ancient forebears). The idea that we should follow a "No Borders" policy to combat this is ridiculous. Borders are not only political and ideological, they are also cultural, spiritual, and even geographical. Rivers and mountain ranges form many of our borders and in the case of islands so does the sea. Like a typical ideologue he promotes the idea of the free movement of people because it suits his guilt as a kind of payback for Colonialism. Apparently borders haven't always existed and passports are a recent invention.Yet, the idea of bounded territories have arguably existed even before recorded history. The Romans clearly had borders. England was a very early nation carved out in the British Isles by the Saxons also as a response to invaders from the north. He ignores this earlier history and appears to sustain the idea that no kind of national consciousness existed before the industrial revolution (contra would be Anthony Smith's work on Nationalism which traces ancient roots for many European nations). Furthermore, he erroneously states that Europeans have sent out people "for a thousand years" to colonise the globe, which is a nonsense. The people of African and China are still quite clearly African and Chinese, so their culture and identity haven't been diluted by masses of white European migration for a thousand years. In fact, a thousand years ago the Normans had not even conquered the Saxons in England who were still living in buildings made of wood. The Saxons were trying to carve their own country and had borders. Those borders were ignored by the invading Normans, who then acknowledged those borders when establishing their own Kingdom. While it's true the Spanish had an Empire that involved huge swathes of the globe, they only had this after 1492. So that's not all Europeans and not a thousand years ago. Plus what followed was a period where only a handful of European nations had Empires (Spain, Portugal, France, Britain, Netherlands), while other nations including his own didn't exist before the 1860s (Greek independence was in 1830s but Italy and Germany became nations 30/40 years later). Some European nations were colonised by other European nations (Ireland by England, Norway and Iceland by Denmark and Sweden). While some others were on the margins of history. So the idea that we should pay for Colonialism by forcing (for example) Lithuania to take in migrants who have no historical or cultural link to the area is ridiculous. Borders exist so we can collect taxes from the people within a territory. They also exist as the recognised territories of particular peoples who speak particular languages and have certain customs. To swamp Europe with people who have no connection to the cultures of a territory, who show no urge to adopt the language or culture of a territory, who prefer to maintain their own cultures will literally be the end of Europe. There will be no Greece if in 50 years Greek speakers are a minority in their own country. There will be no converts to the Greek orthodox religion if newcomers bring their own values. At the end Varoufakis, as much as I admire the guy, completely ignores European calls for their own identities, languages, and traditions to be respected. He himself cuts a kind of Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos type figure that he seems to loathe. Varoufakis is unfortunately another part of "the blob" the faceless, anonymous, all-consuming, all-controlling corporate management machine that is hellbent on heralding in the decline and death of the west purely because they feel we need to pay for the sin of sending our poor away on boats 150 (not a thousand) years ago to America where they pushed west and massacred all the indigenes. It may satisfy his guilt for that to become our fate, but it doesn't satisfy the many people that are unfortunately now beginning to vote for the kinds of political parties we've not seen in Europe since the 1930s. It's always the academics, the managers, and the civil servants who ignore how the people suffer from a stroke of their pen. And like a true Marxist (and oligarch who loves capitalism) he uses the people to plug his new book and gain financial benefit. Beware of charismatic men in nice suits with dark handsome looks and romantic sounding names who use big words and have something to sell. Many demons in our history have had the same checklist of features.

@minimalist279

6 ай бұрын

"...European calls for their own identities, languages, and traditions to be respected.." ; like cultures, nations and countries that were genocided for your unearned benefits. I feel the poison dripping from your keyboard strokes...🙃