Very nicely done video! You've given a person a clear view of what this machine offers. Xtool's Livestream was horrible with the audio and video.

@user-rp4bv1tu8w

Жыл бұрын

I agree, the quality of the video was not great on the live stream, also I never could see if there was a reply to my questions. Like Robert's video

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

Bummer, I'll have to check it out. I was just trying to give you a closer look at the actual product, as if you were looking at it in person.

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Interesting comment on rails. I'm not specialist on this topic but I saw same/similar roller rail setup on expensive laser cutters, i.e. GCC. Also it is used in Graphtec cutting plotters, and it runs super fast and smooth. So I always wonder why these top brands would use rollers.

I have an xtool m1 which works very well it focuses without qr code

I PRE - ORDERED mine.. i was wondering about the instruction manual or set up. Is it available online as a pdf? Good to see all your rreviews. Thanks so much to do this.

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

The setup is pretty much what you saw. Mine needed to be filled with coolant, it's not decided how the final units will ship, but that's a one-time thing and it's easy enough. I didn't include it because it's not clear if that will be something necessary with the final units. I unfortunately don't see a link for the manual anywhere, but all I got was a very basic quick start guide, just telling you how to setup wifi and such. It looks like they haven't fully added it to their site. It's not in their machine comparison guide, they have recommended settings for cutting/engraving (it's missing there), etc. It seems like they're still working on rolling out all the documentation. I don't love that, but at the same time, it seems like it works as it should.

Another great vid Robert…want to use print/cut feature in Lightburn: 1) does this have a red dot pointer for head positioning that can be turned/off? 2) debating between this and 60W Omtech w/more wattage & larger work area. Thoughts on both of these things? TIA

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

It DOESN'T have a pointer! I was surprised by that until I realized they're relying heavily on the camera for that stuff. I usually just use the pointer to line up my workpiece, but with the dual cameras (and one of them is a close-up camera), it just makes more sense to use the cameras instead of a dot. So no, it doesn't include one, but the cameras (so far) seem to work better. There is a red dot, but I think it's used for distance mapping (more on that later, but it's at an angle, and I think it measures the offset that occurs at different heights). As for a 60W omtech versus this? That's a rough one. It's like a gaming laptop versus an apple macbook. One of more focused on the consumer (P2) and features. The other is more for the industrial environment in a workshop. I will say, the difference between 60W and 55W will be pretty irrelevant, you won't really see any performance difference, the 60W will just do things a tiny bit faster. The omtech will be less 'all-in-one', usually taking up more space, having separate chiller, air assist, etc. It depends on what you want. If you have the space for it and actually NEED the larger work area, and don't mind the extra bulk/accessories, go with omtech. If you think you'll use the more 'advanced' features of the P2 more than the larger work area, the P2 might make more sense. I have an older-style 60W laser and some of the features of the P2 are pretty interesting. I'm personally trying to figure out how many times I'd actually use those, versus my old workhorse! I think for a 'shop' that's running parts all day, something like the omtech makes sense. But for a hobbyist that has occasional needs and wants the flexibility to map 3d objects, use the passthrough, etc., I think the P2 makes sense. You're just going to figure out what your needs are really, both are good, but very different choices.

@vidserver5

Жыл бұрын

@@RobertCowanDIY Perfect Bud! Excellent info and points made. Bummer about NO red dot but I get it. If only that was compatible w/Lightburn now at launch. Keep up these fantastic reviews and super appreciate your thorough and honest reply!

As always, another great review! Now I understand why they wouldn't allow anyone to release reviews during the pre-order period, as it doesn't really deliver more compared to the competition at this asking price. Besides the larger cut/engraving area, this machine is substantially overpriced at $4k, let alone $5k. With a plastic body and inadequate laser head rails, I feel xTool is just price gouging the market like Glowforge not because it's justifiable for what you get, but because they can. Just another manufacturer taking advantage of today's overinflated market. Also note, they are already selling this for $4,199 on their website, so that "$1k savings" for pre-orders was all just marketing b.s.

@pjaromin

Жыл бұрын

Not sure why you'd say "doesn't really deliver more" .... the larger work area is huge, especially for someone like me who has specific projects that require that size. The 3D capability is also HUGE and gives me another capability that I don't currently have with my 60W cabinet laser. I bought this as my "backup" laser (if/when cabinet laser is out of service) to keep in my home shop to do combination of production work and family projects. Almost got one of the others, but the OMTech/Gweike simply too small, can't handle the work pieces I use. The rails are disappointing, but I'm hoping it won't be an issue long term. Perhaps is just "doesn't deliver more" that you care about. But if you need to extra size and want the hi-res camera and auto-Z axis, I haven't found another option.

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

I've been around product development for years. Sometimes you can trivialize a certain feature because it's not something that's important to YOU and therefore the product doesn't seem to have a suitable market. In the case of the P2, it does a couple things that COULD be quite important to a few people. The 'unlimited' passthrough, 3d engraving (and associated autofocus), and mapping to multiple objects are all features that don't really exist elsewhere in this market. If you don't need them, you will not see that extra value, and the machine will seem overpriced as you stated. BUT, if this is something you need, it very well might be just what you're looking for. Does that make sense? Trust me, there's at least one person out there that was waiting for someone to make one of those features and bought the machine the second it was available. Value come down to what your individual needs are, not eveveryone will see the same value in the product. That's how I try to approach these videos.

Hello and thank you for the video. How come you have the p2 before you can receive it. It is very expensive and is it worth its price? Does it have a good smoke extraction, for me it is very important. Currently I own Gweike cloud with problems at the beginning. I would like to change it but I don't know whether to buy omtech 50w or the p2. I make engravings and cuts mainly on 3 mm plywood. What do you think? THANKS

Have you by chance noticed if the air and exhaust work reasonably well or if they need upgrades too? I’m guessing I would still want an in-line fan in the exhaust line?

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

Sorry, just saw this comment. I think the air and exhaust work fine, I don't see any reason for upgrades. To be fair, I am using the exhaust into the Gweike Air Filter, and the combo works quite well. For longer exhaust runs, you might want to put an inline fan in there to boost the movement, but directly into an air filter or directly outside, I don't see any issues.

Great overview. What software do you recommend?

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

For beginners, the included software is fine. For the more advanced features, I suspect you're going to need their own software, since Lightburn can't do curved surface engraving and such. I think you could get by with the included software until you want to do something more complicated or have better fine adjustment, and then I'd use Lightburn. It just depends on what you're doing. I'll have to dig into it more, but MAYBE their software will do most of what I want?

When are the next two coming out? The Product Comparison and the Deep dive?

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

Hopefully within the next couple of weeks. I just need to spend time with it. It's tricky getting a new tool and fully learning it, demonstrating it, and communicating that in a video. I want to make sure I know what I'm talking about!

I’d LOVE to know if the Gweikecloud air filter works for the P2 because it’s bigger with higher wattage. Could you please let me know? Thank you!

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

Yep, it totally works. You can't see it, but that's what I have the exhaust hooked up to! I think the P2 and the Gweike air filter is a great combo. The xTool version seems quite a bit undersized for this laser, but the Gweike is just right.

can you adjust the air pressure in the air assisit or is it on/off?

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

I haven't seen a way to adjust the air assist. It's a manual dial on other machines, but there are no such adjustments. I'll look more into this though!

I ordered one, at $3999 with the preorder discount, plus another $100 off the unit for the early referral coupon and getting $150 in materials for ordering during the live event. Expected to receive mid-may - I hope it is worth it...

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

Nice! I'm trying to get word on when they will actually ship. Mine seems to be an actual production unit. Sometimes I get products that look like pre-production or prototype and this doesn't look like that. The packaging, manuals, and everything else look like it's ready.

@user-rp4bv1tu8w

Жыл бұрын

@@RobertCowanDIY They said I should receive it mid May in the US, They are shipping from China in the next week or so.

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

@@user-rp4bv1tu8w Gotcha, that's not too bad.

I do very small work in 1:48 scale. The xtool website states that this has a spot size of .15 x .20. Is it noticeable that it is rectangular? Someone on the Glowforge (sorry!) forum engraved on a piece of rice. Will this machine also do such intricate work?

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

Hum, I'd have to get a better look at it. In their livestream, they showed it engraving on a toothpick, that might give you an idea of it's capabilities. I feel like a fiber laser would make more sense though? kzread.info/dash/bejne/oqtrs5txnrunYMY.html

@juliestevens1933

Жыл бұрын

@@RobertCowanDIY Thank you for being so helpful! I watched the livestream, but missed a few parts including the toothpick.

Do you know if the auto focus actually probes the material...or is it the usual just reading from a qr code, estimating the length & we'll have to manually work it out for exact focus?

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

I'm not entirely sure how the focus works yet, I'm still playing with it. But I can say I haven't really been having issues with it, it just seems to focus on its own properly. Unlike the Gweike where you need to calculate the offset, with this you just tell it the material thickness and that's it. I think it also has some sort of depth gauge, because it can map the surface of objects for the curved engraving. The auto-focus is MUCH better. And it doesn't rely on QR codes.

@neilrisley3443

Жыл бұрын

@RobertCowanDIY shame we even have to manually input the thickness. I was hoping the automatic autofocus would do the measuring automatically (tbh because I'm so eager to order & the price being quite high...I think I'm just looking for as many positives as possible to justify the cost) Thanks for your reply

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

Eh, don't draw conclusions JUST yet. There seems to be a way to measure thickness in the software (just by clicking on an area). It's far easier than the Gweike. I haven't messed with lightburn just yet though. I would suspect there's a way to make it automatic.

@neilrisley3443

Жыл бұрын

@RobertCowanDIY I'm currently waiting to hear back from a loan I've applied for to help pay and have a week until the discounts run out...so will look forward to more videos being posted that will help more. I'll probably stick with xcs due to more of the extra functions being implemented (I've only used LaserGRBL so far with my Ortur LM2 so I won't miss out too much) Really appreciate your videos and replies btw...so thank you

How do you think the absence of linear rails will affect function?

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

I think in normal use, it might not be a consideration at all. I think for daily use in a manufacturing environment, I'd rather have linear rails instead. I don't think it's really an issue considering the intended use of the machine, I don't think there is a question of accuracy or speed or anything, it's just not the right choice for an industrial environment.

In your limited use so far, would you say the P2 is an improvement over the Gweike Pro? If so how much of an improvement please?

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

Yes! I think they both hit their price points quite well. They will both do the exact same job (not assuming some of the more advanced features of the xtool), but the xtool will maybe get the job done a bit easier, since it has better autofocus, and it seems to be more responsive, and the cameras really are nice. I'd say the Gweike is more of a minor update to the old-style industrial CO2 lasers, and the xtool is an upgrade over the gweike. But value is hard to determine (at least for me) since each one of them seems equally valued in their respective price-points. If you have the money and can personally justify the price of the P2, it would live up to the price, but if that's a stretch or you think you might not use those features or you might only occasionally use the tool, the Gweike isn't a bad option at all. I feel pretty comfortable recommending either. Let me know if that helps and if you have any other questions.

@neilrisley3443

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your reply...I'm leaning more towards the P2. Looking forward to hopefully more videos from you about it 😏

Are the linear movement rods only mounted on the ends or supported in the center too?

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

They are mounted fully into the extrusion, so they are supported the entire length of travel. The extrusion is like a 'C' and the rails are on the top and bottom and the gantry moves along the inside. There isn't an area where it's not fully supported.

@ulaB

Жыл бұрын

@@RobertCowanDIY In that case I don't think them using metal rollers will be that much of an issue. At least for 3D printing there's always the discussion if rods and linear bearings are worse than linear rails. But the only difference in that case is that rods can only be supported at the ends with round bearings while linear rails are supported all along the length. So rods could in theory sag in the center if they are not thick enough. In fact this might be easier for maintenance. Rods and wheels should be easier to clean and grease/oil and since a laser doesn't produce big particles like a CNC, there is less chance of the tracks to get dirty enough to become an issue.

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

@@ulaB Corrrect, I don't see a specific problem with it, it's not not 'ideal'. But it should work just fine.

I forgot the xtool m1 does not have a red dot to position. But with the camera it is very easy to position your work and so there is less waste of material.

Can you turn off the inside Vent and use the External Fan instead , will it make quieter ?

@RobertCowanDIY

11 ай бұрын

I don't think there's any control over that.

@coalakida

11 ай бұрын

@@RobertCowanDIY I just got off the phone with X tool and there is no Turning off the Fan like you can on a Glowforge , which is a deal breaker for me as that is to loud for any household use . Sadly I am still stuck with the glowforge system.

like the video good info but no one has talked about the life span of the laser 3,years or 5 years life on the laser tube? or will they will be in business and how to get a new laser tube there contract does not cover the Laser tube in 3 years or 4 years.

@RobertCowanDIY

6 ай бұрын

That's a good point! All CO2 laser tubes are more or less universal. xTool is not making their own tubes and they are absolutely replaceable. The power supplies are universal (they just provide high voltage to drive the tube) and the tubes are standard sizes. So regardless if xTool is in business or not, you can easily swap the tube. For reference, I use my CO2 laser occasionally and I had 7 years on my last laser and the tube measured only about 2 watts below the 60W rating. They have a fairly long life as long as you don't run them at 100% power and keep them cooled. If running well below their full power, they can last much longer than the listed specs, but they are ultimately a 'consumable.

I paid the deposit, and now after watching the livestream, trying to pay the balance of $3,899 + accessory bundle, it now says that P2 does NOT ship to Hawaii. THIS IS NOT FAIR!!!

@caribguy2007

Жыл бұрын

I think they can, probably a shipping price issue. I would contact them about it. When we do shipping, we only do contentental USA, you would be a lot more expensive, basically air shipping.

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

Oh bummer. Have you emailed them about it? I've heard others talking about shipping to South America and Europe, so Hawaii seems doable.

Those linear rails wheels are really bummer for such machine. I mean, they will work, but they could have put there linear bearings at least. This ain't $200 printer.

@RobertCowanDIY

Жыл бұрын

Yep, it's why I mentioned it. The Gweike is significantly cheaper and it has name brand linear pillow-block bearings. Moving the heads by hand, it does feel slightly different, the Gweike is much smoother and feels more solid. However, since there are no real cutting forces on the head and it's not moving THAT fast, they should be 'fine'. But I'm right there with ya, it sucks to see on a machine at this price level.

I see Chinese ”注意“ Made in China ？

@RobertCowanDIY

5 ай бұрын

Yes, it's made in China. Just like your computer, TV, cell phone, and almost every electronic device you own. Even 'made in USA' lasers are just assembled in the US with foreign parts. It's an unfortunate reality that nearly all electronic components are made in China.