I've made wootz with a pile of ordinary bricks, four small squirrel cage fans, four lengths of black pipe, a graphite crucible and fired one heat with coal and the second with coke. The first ingot made a nice meat cleaver, it didn't have much paterrn or banding. The second made a nice short sword blade and had a wonderful pattern. The biggest difference between these two heats is that the coke burned hotter. Both heats were allowed to cool slowly in our makeshift brick furnace untill the fuel had completely burned out. Both ingots were thermocycled 7 times before any forging.

Hi Krsysztof, My source for the info was "hardening, tempering and Heat treatment" by Tubal Cain isbn978-085242-837-5. He credits the process of making the first crucible steel to Benjamin Huntsman, in Sheffield in 1744. The process had already been suggested, but no one could make a crucible to withstand the temperature necessary to melt the blister steel. Huntsman came up with the crucible, but not necessarily the process. He is credited with being the first to make crucible steel using the process. All it did was ensure the carbon content was evenly distributed by remelting the blister steel. I think that by starting with cast iron with a carbon content of 1.7% or more, there will be too much carbon in the resulting metal, which will make it brittle, and reduce the ductility. Phil

@philhermetic

8 жыл бұрын

+Phil Whitley Cast iron is made in a blast furnace where the iron comes into intimate contact with the coke and picks up a large amount of carbon, the iron used for making wootz was smelted from ore in sealed clay crucibles with a small amount of added wood and leaves to provide a much smaller amount of carbon, If you smelt the ore in a sealed container, you will have almost pure iron, which is soft and malleable, and very much like wrought iron, which is cast iron woth most of the carbon removed.

Realy exciting!

I have no knowledge about any sort of black-smiting but I find these videos to be very fascinating, so thanks for making them :)!

на изломе видно, что сталь перегрели, мало того огромная усадка в самом вутце ..Сталь кипела и не доварилась ( либо розкислить нужно , либо долбше варить.Ковалось сложно с трещинами ( явно огромные карбиды), при таком роскладе невзирая на красивый узор будет сыпаться кромка при боковых нагрузках...Но всёравно МОЛОДЦЫ!

By forging at high temperatures where the steel acts more like a solid solution, the carbides dissolve into the steel making it more of less a homogenous 1%C steel, which incidentally is what modern hot rolling does to steel. Wootz on the other hand was used by the middle-eastern smiths, and had a higher carbon content of around 1.5-2%C. This also has a dendritic network, has much more carbides in a lower carbon matrix.

I watch a fellow named FZ. He has seemed to figured out something. He uses a disposable crucible and I think he might be getting it hotter. He uses a lid, a cap and it all fuses into one piece, which he breaks open to reveal the ingot. After it goes in the crucible until it is cooled, he does not touch it.

i still watch theses. after all this time. i love your videos. Honestly your voice should be on pbs

@michaelcerda5514

5 жыл бұрын

one year later and I still agree

Lots of good information. Thank you. For the next ingot, we will experiment some more with thermal cycling and different forging temperature, e.g. letting all the carbides dissolve vs forging just below that.

It is utterly important to use a singel malt whisky bottle XD

Interesting stuff. Looking forward to next time.

why not use iron filings, graphite powder, and powered glass instead? might be able to get more consistent results and a higher carbon content overall

Like you said in the video, the ingot probably needed more time to melt and combine, but another issue is forging temperature. Viking ingots acquired through trade had a carbon content of around 1%C with some deviance. They forged them at high temperatures like normal and found that at first the ingot was really hard at the start but became easier to forge after a while. This is since the ingot after solidifying is dendritic which means there is a network of carbides in a lower carbon matrix.

That ingot looks awesome.

It is! I'm an up and coming knife maker, although I'm just a beginner. I'm on the finishing touches of my first knife, and it's coming out well! I might post a video of it actually. But it looks pretty nice. I just gotta put on the wood handle, stain and polish it, and then make the leather sheath and then I'm done :D It's a real joy to make. If there was a blacksmith's guild near where I live I'd totally join it.

You need to keep it liquefied at least 2 hrs. This will give time for slag and impurities to swim up and to mix well. Liquefied steel pretty thick, so it needs time to get cooked well.

you boys have a great workshop

Have you tried to use bloomary iron and live green leafs before adding the glass then seal the top of the crucible. Bring it up to temp then let it cool then up then cool then up and hold it. Then anneal the puck in iron oxide to soften the outer layers of the puck

I think you should just add iron, no steel, and then add charcoal or some other carbon source as well as any other alloy metals you want in the steel in a small quantity. As you pointed out, the iron probably melted before the steel, and that probably caused poor diffusion of the metals and carbon, so I think you should just use iron as your starting metal, besides, melting steel to make steel isn't as interesting as turning pure iron into steel. Still, I couldn't do it myself, I don't have the kind of experience or knowledge to even experiment. Keep up the good work.

However, if you forge this at high temps where the steel acts like a solid solution, you will basically dissolve the carbides to produce a 1.5-2%C steel, which will probably be too brittle to use, like the piece you showed in the video. Instead the middle-eastern smiths forged it at much lower temperatures, some say between the steel glowing cherry red to a dull orange. This will prevent the carbides from dissolving much and letting the steel retain it's strength, although it takes much longer.

thank you for sharing.

Yes there are benefits to folding (pattern welding) steel because if done properly it is like a blade with multiple layers. However japanese smiths along with other anchient smiths had no choice but to fold the stee to work higher carbon steels in with lower carbon steel in order to produce a strong and useable product. This is what also produces the wood grain pattern on blades since when touched by acid lower carbon steel etches darker than higher carbon steel so it gives a beautiful contrast.

@Niels Provos Sounds good! Best of luck!

Hi Neils I really enjoy watching your process of making the crucible steels, What do you use to measure the temperature of your gas foundry? regards Rob.

We were aiming for 1.7% carbon but since we had to remove the crucible early the materials did not completely mix. The bottom of the ingot was pretty much cast iron. We also did not add anything that would contribute V or Cr. In any case, it's a learning experience. Any insights you might be able to add are very much appreciated.

It also mean the steel can still crack from forging, but I read in a forum somewhere about a modern smith using a blacksmith's hydraulic press on wootz which prevent much cracking since the press is much slower than a hammer strike. Phew, that was a lot to get through, hope I didn't bore you :). Also I think the order of these comments might come in reverse.

Very interesting!

Very neat. Do you break the crucible after each melt? I know some use this method and it seems like a waste. Why can;t you pour the metal into a mold- that would add mixing action too.

You should add some green leaves to the crucible. You should put a top on the crucible to further prevent the air (oxygen) from getting to the mix in the crucible and seal the top onto the bottom with something to prevent air from getting in. I think mud was used to seal the top and bottom.

I think you blend is good, but I would maybe go a little further and chop up the bars of 1018 and cast iron a bit more, it will helt the mixing. Also a lit, made of clay or ceramics helped me a lot, ensuring a slower cooldown. a couple of stirs while max temp will help too, but make sure to use a very clean ceramic rod. steel will contaminate good vid, looking forward to you success

Have you considered that since your crucible is not sealed, the carbon will burn off during heating? As I understand the steel production, to achieve 2% carbon content with any precision, first you should let the iron boil in an open crucible (burning off all the carbon to CO2), then let it cool, add 2% carbon, then seal the crucible and let it boil again. This is procedure they used in the experimental recreation of an Ulfberht sword.

I would have thought that you would have used a green bottle to include vanadium in the wootz.

@Thunor93

3 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing.

Very, very cool :D

what doo you use to hold the iron while the iron gets melted?

Was this video filmed in Florence SC? If so, I've been to that shop thousands of times

@NielsProvos

Жыл бұрын

Sorry. It was in California 😎

I enjoyed watching your video! I have done the same experiment at least 30 times but starting with ball bearing steel and mild steel and coke. My aim was to have machinable cast iron. It takes 35 minutes for the charge to be a liquid and about two hours to add the rest of the steel till pouring time. Have a look at my youtube video "how to change steel into cast iron using a waste oil furnace" One tip for your next experiment deoxidize the melt with ferromanganese to the remove the oxygen.

процент углерода можна рощитать по формуле.Идеальный вариант это 1, 2- 1,3 % углерода в вутце.Но нужно очень медленное охлаждение , чтобы карбиды перешли в глобулярный вид.Тогда слиток будет нормально коваться.Иначе нужен высокотемпературный отжиг ( гомогенизация) 110градусов в течении 1 часа.

Have you tried mixing in a little sand, to collect the slag at the bottom of the cast iron?

This charge was with cast iron and low-carbon steel. So, the carbon is already part of the iron matrix. As the glass starts melting before the cast iron, the charge is protected from oxidization.

Check out Nova's "Secrets of the Viking Sword" if you haven't already. You can find it here and probably on PBS.

How did you get a gas forge up to steel melting temps ?

The problem with that is when iron and steel reaches a certain temperature, it loses its magnetism. This is how blacksmiths often find out if a steel is hot enough to quench for a knife, is if a magnet no longer sticks to it.

It's a clay-graphite crucible that we got from Legend Inc.

i see some woots pattern good job

I have done a lot of reading and research into the metallurgy of different types of crucible steels, including wootz and the crucible steel which the vikings acquired through trading. How high a carbon content were you trying to get? The different types of crucible steel need different forging techniques, and I may (I stress "may":) ) be able to provide a few insights into the techniques used for the different types of steel, and have some of the historical ways to counter issues with the steel.

ТЫ всё правильно делал, но есть одно но как всегда при ковке нужно был бы посыпать бурой что бы стабилизировать высоко-углеродистый метал ( это касается только ровного куска), а вот с большие трещины не проваришь бурой.

You should do a video at some point of how you constructed your foundry furnace. I'm a blacksmith also and would like to one day experiment with crucible steel myself

@Thunor93

3 жыл бұрын

Trust me it is worth it, but be warned you will fail a few times but when you figure it out it is so worth it, i forge every weapon i make with crucible steel even arrow heads.

What type of crucibles did the Indian metalcasters use to make wootz steel if there wasn't any graphite discovered back in those days? I would prefer to smelt iron to steel with a tatara or Catalan-style foundry if a clay-grog crucible (only crucible I can afford so far) can't withstand welding temperatures. Off to making corn cob and pine charcoal, as long as they aren't overcooked and have decent amount of volatiles, which are highly recommended for smelting and forge welding and produce almost no ash plus burn very fast.

@NielsProvos

10 жыл бұрын

The crucibles were made from clay. Smelting will give you a different kind of material compared to crucible steel. It depends on what historical material you are trying to reproduce. European blades in those days were made with steel won by smelting iron ore unless they were able to import Wootz ingots. Williams argues for those ingots being imported via the Volga trade route.

Hi .. my understanding of the spark test at 3:00, is that mild steel will produce a yellow spark when ground whereas tool steel produces red sparks, and that the test is to obtain a rough estimate of the tensile strength of the material .. does that sound about right. As well I would suggest that the bottle label and any residual contents are removed from the glass flux before it is broken up, and if an open crucible is to be used utilize a gas lighter rather than a bundle of paper. Ppl might scoff however attention to these sort of details can make all of the difference, the bottle label and the paper likely have trace elements that could comtaminate the batch .. I guess it is a trial and error process, good video upvoted :)

@NielsProvos

9 жыл бұрын

***** I am mostly looking at the spark pattern, e.g. how much they branch; see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_testing

Maybe using a Crucible that is more wide rather than tall will help keep things mixed. Like mixing drinks, it is easier to layer a drink in a tall high ball glass or shot glass than a wide bottomed glass or bowl.

Not tried sand yet; the ingots so far seem pretty clean.

You can add green leaves from a tree to your crucible. They will release nitrogen, lowering the melting temperature of the iron.

You should seriously host a show, you're like the bob ross of blacksmithing...

What did you use to make your crucible?

1080 is a SAE steel grade. 1 stands for carbon steel. 80 stands for 0.8% weight percent carbon.

will you make an Ulfberht? would be sweet!

You used a carborundum crucible. Conduct an analysis and you will see a multiple excess of the silicon content in steel.

Excellent video, you should bolt down your anvil, though.

I'm curious, what is 1080? Is that some sort of carbon?

Did you put zinc alloy

Did you analyse the resulting composition of the steel? I have access to a GDOES and could do that...Vickers Hardness as well....;)

@NielsProvos

8 жыл бұрын

+Blackshire I got some of the ingots analyzed for alloying elements and carbon content. The largest surprise was that the iron I was using was very high in phosphorous.

@jaykhandwala5533

8 жыл бұрын

+Niels Provos why do we add glass in there?

@NielsProvos

8 жыл бұрын

+Jay Khandwala the glass acts as flux.

the glass that you see most often is made up of silica (Silicon Dioxide SiO2), soda (Sodium Carbonate Na2CO3), and lime (Calcium Oxide CaO)

what is the glass for?

Ковать не выше 900гр.иначе будет пережог и рострескается ( что и получилось).Дендритный слиток плохо ковать и качество готового изделие плохое.Сталь нужно таки отжеч.А поры если они были легко заварить используя посыпание бурой..

What did you use to seal the crucible?

@NielsProvos

3 жыл бұрын

Satanite.

Couldnt you please, please make a video in how to build a ferness like yours or a smaller one, how to build the noon burning material, what they are and so on. very exsiting video...:-) thank you....

Where did you get the .1 - 1% vanadium from?

@NielsProvos

5 жыл бұрын

From O1 tool steel

@BobGP1

5 жыл бұрын

Niels Provos thank you for the answer. Keep up the good work I look forward to seeing more of your videos.

I almost couldn't stop laughing...

Lol you're melting iron but yet you haven't even fixed your anvil to the ground, why's that?

Crucible steel was originally made from wrought iron bars 3"x 3/4" (ie almost pure ferrite) which were turned into blister steel by heating it to a temperature of around 1000 deg in a closed steel oven packed with charcoal, this process could take up to ten days, and resulted in metal which was between .75% and 1.5% carbon. this was then broken up and heated in the crucible to make crucible, or cast steel. The process used iron smelted using charcoal, as it is lower in sulphur and phosphorus than coke smelted iron. I think that the inclusion of cast iron in your melt means that you will have too much carbon, and also more phosphorus and sulphur , which doesnt help matters. The problem with blister steel was that the carbon content was uneven along the length of a bar, and also between bars, the idea of the crucible process was to produce a steel that had a homogenious carbon content. Apparently the crucible steel was made into ingots by pouring it into "pre heated cast iron moulds" but I cannot find any pictures, so I don't know what these moulds were like, or how thick they were. You could try just pouring it into sand casts. Hope this helps,, Really enjoyed the video too, Good luck! Phil, UK

@krzysztofrusek9096

8 жыл бұрын

+Phil Whitley Can you point source of your informations about 2 steps of carburization in production of wootz? You need to take a difference between wootz and other crucible steels. Wootz was native prodution of India and part of Asia when blister steel was process of carburization invented in England Sheffield, so just from that geografical separation i think you are mistaken about your procedure.

so does the okd wootz steel exist

I just wonder why you don’t seal the crucible.

That’s probably why it came apart

Isnt glass mostly silica and some others additives... why dont you use pure silica sand instead of glass?

What does 1018 mean?

I mostly use Final Cut Pro X and a little bit of After Effects.

What is the purpose of adding glass to steel?

@NielsProvos

3 жыл бұрын

It's flux.

I think whats causing the problem is that you have too much carbon in the ingot, steel works solve this problem by blasting oxygen into the molten steel to form carbon monoxide but thats pretty hard to do in a shop. Maybe you would be better of starting with iron ore, glass and a tiny amount charcoal in a sealed ingot. I believe thats how they used to make crucible steel back in the 600AD era. Good luck lads :)

1080 is a grade of high carbon steel, that is .80% carbon content by weight.

Is graphite crucible enought to melt steel/iron ?

@NielsProvos

8 жыл бұрын

It holds up to the temperature. You can use them a few times before they break down.

@EvilChairSlayer

8 жыл бұрын

+Niels Provos thanks for the information and wow that was fast reply!

why make crucible steel, what about it is different from other metals?

Next time use springy iron core with edge of hard steel (damascus), added carbon. Unfortunately I don't know the % content, so #Niels_Provos try experimented.

Glass is much easier to obtain. Pure silica would work fine, too.

Would a coffee mug work for a crucible?

@NielsProvos

8 жыл бұрын

Blacksmith Dylan If your coffee mug holds up at 3000F and molten iron then yes, it would work.

@tiretwoidiots2676

8 жыл бұрын

Niels Provos after about 30 seconds of research, i feel it's best to probably make the crucibles

our fore-beres must have loved volcanoes.

Couldn't you use magnets to keep the iron moving and mixing while in the forge? That is, if the entire forge is non-magnetic...

@user-ej3ob5mm2q

2 жыл бұрын

Melted iron non-magnetic :(

@TKnightcrawler

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-ej3ob5mm2q Normally, yes. But... I suspect there is a way around that. If I can ever quit my job, maybe I'll try it.

what's the crucible made of? nvm, 3:33: clay-graphite

An infrared thermometer that is rated to 4000F.

I hope I can make at least 20 kg. of good quality pine or corn cob charcoal soon.

Schmidt!!

That maybe crucible steel, but it's not Damascus or Wootz steel because they did not use raw iron or which Damascus is made of.....

What is 1018?

@krzysztofrusek9096

8 жыл бұрын

+RingMast3r100 type of steel. www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=6115

Hey so I been seeing videos like this. This is technically not wootz. Wootz comes from India and early Persia. You can probably still get some from Damascus. The secret to wootz is vanadium. So technically this is not wootz.

Dem mouse clicks..

sorry about how shitty the steel turned out, hope you better ones now.

@Thunor93

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah Crucible steel is tough to make when you first start and will fail many times yet you learn with each failure, but damn is it worth it when ya do figure ot out and get good quality Crucible steel. I prefer making weapons from Crucible steel compared to most who prefer Damascus steel.

this is like porn to me. something about melting melting and forging something by hand is my thrill and what i call living.

My question is why are you letting so much oxygen into the system the best crucible steel so far has been done in a sealed one

Pls make the crucible sword from doom eternal

@NielsProvos

3 жыл бұрын

Say more.

U needed to ad sand and charcoal with glass and leave for 5/7 hours

@lvd2001

7 жыл бұрын

Please tell me why adding sand, charcoal ...and GLASS?? What for? Please

@mattdickson2

6 жыл бұрын

Liem Duong as a fluxing agent to draw out impurities. the glass and sand don't mix with the carbon and iron but do mix with other materials present in their base ingredients for this ingot.

hunting knife please