Pinned Comment for Q&A

@Nostripe361

Жыл бұрын

Did this lead to the militant faction of starfleet disbanding or were they still a semi-relevant faction afterwards that the next generation had to overcome for the golden era to come?

@ISAF_Ace

Жыл бұрын

Did the Klingon Empire, despite its demilitarisation, ever attempt to acquire tricobalt weapons?

@45580677

Жыл бұрын

Funny how during the Dominion War the Romulans needed Starfleet as a buffer after being compromised by the Dominion and time to refit and build plus allowing a cloak that was hard to use as Dominion sensors

@michaelfowler2603

Жыл бұрын

YOU ARE FULL OF IT! SULU NEVER ACHIEVED THE RANK OF COMMODORE IN CANNON. IF FACT SULU COMMANDED THE EXCELSIOR FOR OVER 50 YEARS. ALSO SULU WAS NEVER ELECTED FEDERATION PRESIDENT IN CANNON. SO NEXT TIME DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE YOU SPEW CRAP!

@TimothyChapman

Жыл бұрын

How did you get information concerning communication delays?

“Gravitic cavitation” oooh that’s some good Trek technobabble 👍🏻

@venomgeekmedia9886

Жыл бұрын

Space... its just like the sea ;)

As a courier by profession I do several long routes and routinely get 300-400 miles a day. As someone who’s enjoyed trek but not known a lot of history behind it these are always interesting to listen to on the road.

@tarn1135

Жыл бұрын

This part of trek history is, questionable at best. While this IS a part trek history for the most part, it makes little sense the treaty of banning the federation from using cloaking devices would ever actually happen. Seriously who outside of democrats in todays world would ever agree to giving an enemy a massive tactical advantage.

@miamijules2149

Жыл бұрын

@@tarn1135 Well, both Republican and Democratic administrations have been party to strategic arms limitation treaties so, actually, I find it totally believable.

@cptnoname

Жыл бұрын

@@tarn1135 Now why did you have to bring in your bullshit political beliefs? This is escapism. No room for misinformed ranting.

@tarn1135

Жыл бұрын

@@miamijules2149 sweetie I was joking around. As many have said before Trek actually is very political, and funnily enough I’ve said the EXACT same thing you just did and I personally agree with you about escapism. Just curious but was it the Democrat jab that triggered you or that I said it makes zero sense to give up cloaking tech? Tbh, I kind of hope it’s the democrat one so I can throw it back someday but nowadays you can never really tell. 😂

@miamijules2149

Жыл бұрын

@@tarn1135 Lol nah, I’m a pretty fascist conservative so.... definitely wasn’t that. I just find it really believable.

I love that you got Drach to play another historian

I’m genuinely tickled whenever the most hawkish character has the most intensely American accent possible. Great series, I loved it. Thank you so much.

Imagine being lost, bumping into federation ship, and in a brief exchange of fire getting your comms damaged of all things. Congrats, now you're even more lost...

Huh. Cuban Missile Crisis gone somewhat hot?

You did crimson tides for both the romulans and the federation, absolutely Love it. This has got to be one of your best series yet! Great interpretation of what happened to cause this incident as well as the treaty of algeron!

@venomgeekmedia9886

Жыл бұрын

yeah i love that movie

@FreedomTrooper89

Жыл бұрын

@@venomgeekmedia9886 agreed, and They did such a great job making the submarine warfare feel authentic in that movie, And the tension building was perfect, still gets me feeling anxious even though i know how it ends. I love Hunt for the Red October but I think Crimson Tides is the best sub movie.

Amazing job! It adds a lot more weight to the issues that Riker had to deal with when he was approached about the USS Phoenix.

@venomgeekmedia9886

Жыл бұрын

Pegasus... but yeah I did a follow-up video on admiral pressman and why he was wrong

@critter30002001

Жыл бұрын

@@venomgeekmedia9886 he was wrong, but he wasn’t alone. It seems that disobedience is a systemic issue in Starfleet. Any time a person disagrees with the party line they simply do what they want

@charlestaylor253

8 ай бұрын

Pressman wasn't wrong. The Dominion War soon proved the Federation's self-imposed ban on cloaking technology was ill-advised at best...😠

The Tomed incident would make for a great Star Trek movie.

I was like 'I can feel the tension, like when I watch Crimson Tide.' and then Captain Ramsey shows up. Perfect timing, and great job on these vids. I especially loved seeing an Andor and the pair of Perimeter Action Ships in the shots used.

WoW, this is fantastic please we need this to be made into a movie. Best looking ships, best looking uniforms, utterly brilliant story, everything is there for the Missing era...

@venomgeekmedia9886

Жыл бұрын

Could have been a series arc if we had a sulu series.

@timjerrom7173

Жыл бұрын

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Still could if enough people want it.

@charlestaylor253

8 ай бұрын

​​​​@@timjerrom7173 Sadly no. Because nowadays either Jar Jar Apebrains or Alex Klutzmann, (or both), would get their meathooks in and completely FUBAR it... 😒

@timjerrom7173

8 ай бұрын

@@charlestaylor253 Please don't let the airlock hit you in the backside as you go away with your negativity.

This is why, if you live in the Trek universe, you do not become a frontier colonist haha.

@venomgeekmedia9886

Жыл бұрын

Yeah you either get massacred or corrupted and controlled by an alien entity.

@charlestaylor253

8 ай бұрын

Agreed. It's like joining Starfleet and requesting assignment to an Oberth class...😉

@emmamacfarlane8137

Ай бұрын

@@charlestaylor253 Nobody requests assignments to Oberth class starships. They're a mandatory part of service. It's why Starfleet officers are so utterly unfazed by the weirdest and most horrible shit space can throw at them. The service on an Oberth means that when the Fuckening happens, you're ready for it.

This was another fantastically awesome and gloriously brilliant addition to the history and lore of star trek regarding the infamous tomed incident compared to the canon lore. As one dramatic confrontation and boiling point. Only needing a spark to touch a war after two decades of escalating tensions and incidents off in a bloody galaxy wide conflict makes so much more sense than the secret mission of cannon that is only averted by the skin of ones teeth and captains on both sides. Plus starfleet having a decent crop of cloaked ships to match the romulans also makes the giving up of said tech in the treaty of algeron a far more meaningful concession than in canon.

Thanks for doing this topic. The tomed incident is something barely mentioned in canon.its something that I've always wondered what happened to be able to secure a long peace with the Romulans.

This is my favourite series of the past few years. I don’t often watch things live passed this. Very well done.

@bradleygreen6676

Жыл бұрын

I noticed in parts I & II screen captures of Terminator II: Judgement Day; Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home; Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country; Star Trek VII: Nemesis

Post script, the Tomed incident is why the authority to launch super weapons no longer lies with star fleet captains.

@mattwho81

2 ай бұрын

It also shows why the Federation was so against military solutions to problems. The idea of peaceful diplomacy as the right way was so ingrained that decades later the Federation refused to call their border conflict with the Cardassians a war.

You are going heavy on the submarine stuff. You are doing great fanfiction, I am usually not very accommodating to fanfiction overriding beta works, but Kudos where it's due, good job, interesting story

@venomgeekmedia9886

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I'm not keen on the beta version it doesn't give sufficient reason for all that happens. Glad you like my version

YES! Drachinifel participation is always welcome!

The federation giving up cloaking devices while not requiring the Romulans to as well never made sense.

@RevolverOcelot79

7 ай бұрын

Honestly it makes sense if you consider it's typical leftist policies that subvert our own nation. Need a parallel? Look at the democrats here in the US. Weakening us while allowing our enemies to do whatever they want.

@warriorgaming1604

7 ай бұрын

Cause the romulans would never have actually given them up the talshiar would have killed leaders on both sides

@farshnuke

5 ай бұрын

That perspective has never made sense to me because anyone who has ever watched Star Trek nows that even when they can use them the Federation often doesn't because the Federation has these amazing shields and you can't use them when cloaked and being cloaked is not very Federation. Essentially the Federation giving up cloaking devices is an easy trade.

@nunya3163

5 ай бұрын

@@farshnuke Not getting shot is better than strong shields.

@farshnuke

5 ай бұрын

@@nunya3163 Look up the uboat casualties in world war 2 then tell me how much better it is to not be seen than to be able to protect yourself when you are shot.

Easily my favorite creator collab combo of 2022!!

Wow! Awesome video, a Star Trek version of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Interesting, cold-war Inspired take on what could have led Starfleet into negotiating away cloaking technology. Also characterizing Sulu as feeling guilty for how close this military brinkmanship came to a particularly pyrrhic form of interstellar war helps explain how his presidency demilitarized Starfleet and ushered in the "golden age" of the mid 24th century. Elegant way to tie up all those pesky loose plot threads!

@venomgeekmedia9886

Жыл бұрын

Glad you found it satisfying from a story perspective.

@Hartzilla2007

Жыл бұрын

I get the feeling it was less demilitarizing and more nobody they had a conflict with was enough of a threat to need anything more than the assload of Excelsiors and Mirandas the Federation made.

@charlestaylor253

8 ай бұрын

The trouble with "Golden Ages" is they almost invariably come to a very bloody and sobering end... 😒

I was hoping someone would do a video about the tomed incident. You did an incredible job.

Awesome finale! I wouldn't have minded seeing more of Sulu and the negotiations - I understand it might have helped lessen the dramatic tension of the building war, but the Romulan Commander so willing to go out of his way to negotiate didn't even have a name. So I wouldn't mind hearing more about the diplomatic efforts here.

I have only one word to describe both parts 1and 2. Outstanding.

Nice to hear the Drach!

Ah I missed the primer. Unfortunate. Regardless, this has once again been a thrilling experience. It is indeed great to finally see this event after months of buildup. One could feel the tension and both the _Crimson Tide_ inspiration as well as this essentially being Starfleet's _Cuban Missile Crisis._ Until the next Wings video is "decloaked", keep what of the night skies, for you may not know what, or who, might be there.

Terrific, you did a great job of building the tension. The Tomed incident is a blank canvas as far as Canon is concerned and you filled it in beautifully 👍👌

Nice job presenting the Tomed Incident and the resulting Treaty of Algernon. I liked the retrospective analysis of the various parties.

Great stuff. The use of the term “incident” doesn’t quite fit this kind of escalating crisis, but this is better version of Tomed than I’ve heard from beta canon sources.

So happy to be catching up with your videos! Wow you’ve been getting out a lot of content especially during the holidays!

@venomgeekmedia9886

Жыл бұрын

Oh wow you must have a lot of catching up to do

Nice. I’ve watched Crimson tide a lot too.

This reminds me of the Undiscovered country. Wonderful work!

@venomgeekmedia9886

Жыл бұрын

Cold war stories. But very different outcomes.

Bravo Zulu, on an excellent and professional presentation of both parts. This channel is one of my favorites.

@aiosquadron

Жыл бұрын

@paladin danse Captain authorisation confirmed. Awaiting XO authorisation to launch tricobalt ballistic missiles.

A first class piece of storytelling, and a fascinating insight on the "history" of the Federation. Thanks 👍

Really enjoy these tales of the lost years! Thank you!

Just watched this 2 parter again… Absolutely Epic stuff Mike! Probably…imho anyway…some of the best stuff you’ve done to date. Fantastic work sir! Thank you for all you do here. 😎👍

Cheers mate

I love your stories I listen to them all the time. I eagerly awaiting the next one

The torpedo hitting its own ship bugged me. Not that they could throw it off and have it track its own ship, but actually damaging it. It would have safety measures against this sort of thing happening or the ship could remote detonate it once they realized it was tracking them. Even modern torpedoes have these kinds of safety features.

@georgezuniga6298

Жыл бұрын

The uss tang would have liked that tech back in the 20th century

I didn't know Odo joined Starfleet and became admiral😂🤣

@venomgeekmedia9886

Жыл бұрын

Colonel actually

@tommymitchell2306

3 ай бұрын

​@@venomgeekmedia9886Col in Starfleet lol

fantastic videos-Paramount should take notice. Too bad you could not get George Takai for Sulu-very well done in plot, effects. looking foreward to seeing more..best of luck...

Killed it Venom.

Very tense at times and very well done! Thanks Venom!

Bro. Absolutely stunning series. Thank you so so much for all of this brilliant material to watch.

I really liked this, you presented a logical reasoning behind one of the unsolved questions of Trek, why wouldn't the Federation develop cloaks? And now we see why...

You were right .....about the horses

Love all of your stuff man. Fills the void well.

I love how both sides inflicted the needless casualties that made this "Tomed Incident" so controversial. Although it seemed like from dialogue that it was the Romulans who solely did the attack. With this added context, it can be said that the naming of "incident" has a bit of shame attached to it. Like it was one of the few (known) times that the Federation Starfleet committed a serious war crime. This realization sobered by the fact that the Romulans did the same thing lol. The old TOS way of thinking was no more... The TNG way of thinking had begun. This would have it's downsides and benefits.

I love how the Romulans are "IRS" ships.

@venomgeekmedia9886

Жыл бұрын

You can't escape The IRS or the FCA

Beautiful can't wait for your next battle analysis video

This was a Fantastic production! Well done!

I assume uss Hernandez is for captain Hernandez' . ( enterprise, uss Columbia)

Wow. Nicely written and produced. Hope you do more of these in the future.

Another excellent video, thank you!

Bloody brilliant !

Wonderful writing, love the art .

This is comadore Sulu set condition 1SQ spin up tubes 1 and 2 . Helm come about to torpedo range. Orders confirmed!

Very well done! I love this style of story telling.

This would make a great storyline for a mini series

I honestly didn't know any of this history, thank you for telling us.

A well done video that didn't disappoint in the slightest.

I've been looking forward to this for a while. Great Job! Started watching you back at the tail end of the Romulan War series. If I can do a read for you... hit me up!

I HAVE TO SAY THESE NARRATIVES ARE MOST FASCINATING, AND THE AMOUNT OF RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT OF SUCH IS MOST IMPRESSIVE, INDEED !!GARY BAILEY KING OF DARKNESS GOOD GOD MAN, I HAVE BEEN WATCHING ALOT OF STAR TREK, I AM NOW SOUNDING LIKE A VULCAN!!!

Love the story telling! Awesome as usual!

The term 'Incident' does not do justice to the brief but bloody exchange. It seems as well that the occurrences which played out on those 40 days were truly the last outings of the starfleet of old, the younger generations who would come after wouldn't remember a war so deadly and the notions would seem outdated and ones of a more primitive era. It wouldn't be long before that new generation made a whole other set of mistakes that would cost the lives of many more.

Amazing. Fantastic video!

Great job! Great content! Thank you!

I'll bet things really got heated up again between the Federation and the Romulans after the Battle of Nerendra 3 where 4 Romulan Warbirds attacked the Klingon Outpost there and the Ambassador Class U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-C came to the outposts defense and was destroyed with a loss of all hands as a result.

Giving up cloaking devices was one of the dumbest decisions SF ever made.

@warriorgaming1604

7 ай бұрын

Yeah well more then a few ships accidently decloaked into objects they never managed to make them work properly

@nunya3163

5 ай бұрын

@@warriorgaming1604 That was one ship, and that was an illegal experiment AFTER they agreed to not have them.

Execellent work!

Very nice, both episodes

A true cold war escalation story...fantastic . Keep up the great Vids, cant wait for the next one :)

i love you involved drachinifel with this it's great

Great information

One of my takeaways from the shows was how it would take the patience of a saint to share a border with the Romulans. With certain exceptions, the majority of minor confrontations and major conflicts they find themselves in are of their own making, usually by brought on after they're caught violating treaty borders. And yet they're always quick to play the victim when caught on an aggressive stance in someone else's space, and then to demand concessions at the negotiating table. The Empire comes off sounding like a pathocracy, a government run by and for sociopaths. And you've gotta feel bad for the normal romulan joes who have to deal with that government's decisions.

"ThEYrE FuELinG thEIR pLAsmA TorPEDoes!"

Well done 👍 you have yourself a new sub 😊

This needs to be its own series. They brought Captain Picard back. Paramount should do a 2 season series for Admiral Sulu and Captain Chekov. I think this story could be well told in 20 episodes.

@venomgeekmedia9886

Жыл бұрын

If only we had got a sulu series...

@charlestaylor253

8 ай бұрын

​​@@venomgeekmedia9886 Oh, my! 😉

Phenomenal storytelling

brilliant 👏🏿👍🏿.

Heh, I had a feeling there was alot of "crimson tide" in this tale. 😉 And why not? It is the greatest naval film of all time! It proves that you don't need a war to have all the best elements of war stories. Drama, action and heroics.

So this is where that dumbass treaty of Algeron came from

Great breakdown in his part of Star Trek lore. On another note will you be coveringr the Enterprise F becoming canon

@venomgeekmedia9886

Жыл бұрын

Maybe. Although I'd be pulling from STO

@GRIGGINS1

Жыл бұрын

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Kool

My cousin played a character in Crimson Tide. 😆

Worst mistake in Star Trek history was giving up the cloak. You never give up a technological edge. Clearly they got a new one in the dominion war so maybe they were allowed to have them again.

Nice to see the Romulans outsmart a gas detecting photon torpedo. On the other hand, it was interesting that even one photon torpedo was useful! Commodore Sulu the Swashbuckler! I'd forgotten the fun he seemed to be having swinging that blade in TOS. I suppose that a somewhat chastened Federation was willing to give up cloaking tech. The Federation was willing to be remarkably provocative in this time, more typical peacenik thinking reasserting itself? Maybe so. Better to give up cloaking than guns, perhaps? Concentrate on sensors and shields and structural integrity fields to compensate? Maybe to build big, technically advanced ships to patrol the neutral zone to counter Romulan cloaking. It's also not impossible that the Klingon Empire was angered at a Federation buildup after the Khitomer Accords? Giving up cloaking tech might have been just as much to mollify the Klingons and to keep the Khitomer Accords alive as it was to have a 'reset' with the Romulans? The Federation might have been thinking that they might have been in the process of snatching defeat from the jaws of their victory in achieving peace at Khitomer? This also suggests a political mechanism as to how a peace with Klingons at Khitomer might have devolved to a state of a long war as seen in "Yesterday's Enterprise"?

This should be a series

the incredible moment of the history in star fleet

I love the implications of this. Not only has it shown how Starfleet adventurism nearly triggered a devastating war, it explains why the Federation would be willing to give up Cloaking technology. When Federation citizens learned their leaders were building cloaking starships armed with planet-busting weapons they'd be outraged, the political backlash must have been staggering. The Hawks in Starfleet were disgraced and the Doves were triumphant, Sulu showing that diplomacy was right and war was wrong. The political echoes of this would ring down the decades, so that even when engaged with the Cardassian Union the Federation refused to acknowledge it was a war and kept offering them terms and peace deals.

A Federation ship couldn’t detonate it’s own torpedo 🙄🤨 BS ! love these most of the time. Also my main problem with Star Trek cannon is the ban on cloaking devices for the Federation only. No one side , would ever do that !!!

@Revkor

Жыл бұрын

oh of the dumbest thigns Gene ever established. that treaty is a mistake

@dougc190

Жыл бұрын

Exactly

In the treaty of Algeron the federation should've NEVER given up their cloaking abilities. Both sides should've AGREED to that since Any power would have an advantage over the other. Terrible negotiations in this area.

@angelicaflanagan3483

3 ай бұрын

I agree that was crazy, It gives them such an advantage over the Federation. I can't see in real life that any government would make that agreement.

I still think the Federation is insane for agreeing to give up cloaking tech without the Romulus doing the same.

@winterbas8927

Жыл бұрын

Yep never understood that mad decision as nothing remotely compensatory was given up by the Romulans. It's the sort of thing a losing side would be compelled to agree to, so maybe there is something we don't know about❓

@charliedontsurf334

8 ай бұрын

I’m just not sure what that might be. In the modern world stealth aircraft and submarines are kinda game breaking. If one side has them but the other doesn’t, it’s game over.

@user-bo7ws4bq8c

7 ай бұрын

@@charliedontsurf334Except cloaking devices have been consistently been shown to not be an infallible trump card in Star Trek. Also the industrial military capabilities of starfleet and the federation are massively superior to the romulans. The federation fleet is significantly larger than that of the romulans, and in the event of an actual war breaking out, the massive shipyards of the federation could build a fleet many times the size of the romulans. The cloakingvdevice was an equalizer between the romulans and the federation. The romulans feel small and threatened in the face of both the Klingons and federation.

@charliedontsurf334

7 ай бұрын

@@user-bo7ws4bq8c Cloaks aren't perfect, but neither is anything else.

Long live the King!

I definitely like your version of this a lot better than what they came up with in the novels. I hope you don't mind if I use it as inspiration for a fan series I'd like to write at some point.

@venomgeekmedia9886

3 ай бұрын

Please do!

Should of never gave up the cloaking device

this has to be a 2 part movie

Thanks for these videos. You’ve done a great job of exploring and explaining a tragically under appreciated period in Star Trek history. Interesting thoughts on the “what could have been” if starfleet had cloaking devices. Again thank you.

Loved your take on this unexplored piece of Star Trek lore....though I do have to wonder; if Tri Cobalt weapons were band by the Treaty of Algeron, what was USS Voyager doing with a pair of them when she left DS9?

@charlestaylor253

8 ай бұрын

Admiral Pressman made sure they were onboard...😉