I am in LOVE with the idea of the two keeps of the twins being at war with each other

@thalmoragent9344

Жыл бұрын

@Joseph Avenetti Lmao 💀

@hamzamahmood9565

Жыл бұрын

I guess you can call it: they burned the bridge

@xXxSNIP3RGUYxXx

Жыл бұрын

@@hamzamahmood9565 this is exactly the type of cheesy idea that George likes to write around

@Ballin4Vengeance

10 ай бұрын

@@xXxSNIP3RGUYxXxThis kind of reminds me of Ronja, Robber’s Daughter. A kids book by Astrid Lindgren, where a castle is split in half by lightning the night our titular character, Ronja, is born, one half being inhabbited by her family, the other half being settled by a rival band of robbers. The book then revolves around these two families feuding and eventually coming together. I think it’d be pretty cool.

@Prophetofthe8thLegion

9 ай бұрын

@@JosephAvenettiwe making it out of Tuefort with this one!

An interesting thing is that GRRM said that brienne is descended from ser duncan the tall. And she's currently with lady stoneheart. Imagine if she throws lord walder down the well, like her ancestor wanted to do at the start of last century.

@gratefulguy4130

3 ай бұрын

Sir Briennecan the Wall

@That2J

2 ай бұрын

I’m imagining it and now I really hope that doesn’t happen

@toxicxhazard

2 ай бұрын

@@That2J "As my ancestor hence decreed, you shall now fall down this well Lord Frey! This is Westeros!" Brienne said as she kicked Walder Frey down the well. Everyone began to clap.

I think like most of history’s biggest a-holes, Waldur Frey himself will die peacefully in his sleep. The rest of the Freys will destroy themselves trying to become the new head. Stoneheart will be around to exact vengeance on the last Frey standing.

@DawnofIsai

Жыл бұрын

He'll die thinking his family is set for generations only for it to immediately implode

@hi-ls6lt

Жыл бұрын

As much as I’d hate it and it is strange to say, I really agree with this concept and find it to be quite fitting. Walder Frey dies peacefully in his sleep and the rest of his family, who we have seen fighting for his favour before with all the Walders and Waldas will begin fighting within themselves. Probably a stupid take but if there’s any house in the series I see going potentially extinct, I could see the Freys being it, the irony with all the members they have.

@shahsadsaadu5817

3 ай бұрын

In the world where henry kissinger and Colin powell died peacefully, this would be relatable

@Ballin4Vengeance

9 күн бұрын

@@hi-ls6ltCompromise: He dies of a nasty illness.

There will come a day when I will understand the whole Frey genealogy... but it is not this day

@davidlewis5312

Ай бұрын

let me help you, I went through and I composed a breakdown of the Frey line of succession best following my understanding of Linear Male Preferrence Succession Edwyn -Walda Black Walder Perra Frey Walton Frey Steffon Frey Bryan Frey Walda Frey Emmon Frey Tywin Frey Willem Frey Lyonel Frey Red Walder Frey Aegon (Bloodborn) Robert Jonos White Walda Periane Frey Zachery Frey Zia Frey Kyra Frey Hosteen Frey Arwood Frey Androw Alyn Ryella Hostella Alesander Frey Bradamar Frey Alyx Danwell Amerei Fat Walda Marissa Sandor Frey Cynthea Raymund Robert Malwyn Jaime Tywin Serra Sarra Cersei Lythene Lothar Tysane Walda Emberlei Leana Jammos Big Walder Dickon Mathis Whalen Hoster Merianne Morya Tyta Perwyn Osmund Della Olyvar Roslin Wendel Colmar Waltyr Elmar Arwyn Shirei (Unborn) There is 70 living claimants to the twins. This is why you DON'T DO THIS

@ruigerd

Ай бұрын

@@davidlewis5312 nope nope nope, not going anywhere near that. Good work though

@nont18411

13 күн бұрын

@@davidlewis5312 So this is a Frey civil war in the making

15:46 I’ll give George bonus points if Dream of Spring is just an extended version of Chapterhouse: Dune’s ending where Frank just admits he lost track of all his characters.

@DanFromHR

2 ай бұрын

AHAHAAHa seriously

It would be ironic if the Freys got a red wedding against them, which is in line with GoT. Walder Frey did the red wedding in order to help his family, so his family's downfall being their own red wedding would be fitting.

@umanuu

Жыл бұрын

Ya they wouldn't even need anyone to have a hand in their downfall. It's a sort of softcore theme of karmic justice in the world of ASOIAF. "What goes around comes around."

@thalmoragent9344

Жыл бұрын

Perhaps, but who will deliver the final stroke?

@davidsekhleyan693

Жыл бұрын

​​@@thalmoragent9344 Blackfish maybe?

@sonofjack6286

Жыл бұрын

As long as the Rosby Freys, and the decent branches of the family are not harmed, or they're brought in against the rest of their family, I'll be happy.

@Ballin4Vengeance

10 ай бұрын

@@umanuuFuck about, find out

"I get it George, take your time" sent me 🤣🤣🤣

I think Jamie's POV is what GRRM has been struggling with. It doesn't really make sense for Stoneheart not to kill him immediately. The only way I see it working is if Jamie manages to get the upper hand on the brotherhood, but decides to help anyways on his own terms. I feel like Jamie will negotiate for the survival of all Lannisters in trade for the depletion of the Frey's as a whole. I don't imagine the Brotherhood would ablige this agreement, but it could be possible depending on a possibility of Sansa revealing herself in the Veil. Regardless, I really hope we get to the Barristan and the Black Fish in the Battle for the North or whatever end battle takes place against the Others. The show robbed us of the badassery those characters could have provided in the end game.

@AlexG-xl1cc

Жыл бұрын

I think Brienne will let Jamie in on what's happened on the way and they will fight the Brotherhood and rescue Pod. I know Lem is corrupted but I hope he doesn't die him and Tom and my fav characters.

@frankvandorp2059

Жыл бұрын

I don't think Jaime's role will have anything to do with the Freys. Stoneheart doesn't really need Jaime's assistance to get into Riverrun, we know Tom Sevenstrings is already in Riverrun, so the brotherhood probably already has that covered. I think Jaime will be tasked with killing Cersei, as Stoneheart will give him the choice: either he kills Cersei and she will let Brienne go, or Brienne dies. It makes more sense for Jaime's character arc to have to choose between Brienne and Cersei (his own good side vs his own bad side), it fulfills the Valonqar prophecy, and it also is at the right moment for Cersei to die, as her survival odds would be zero after she starts a civil war with the Tyrells. And even better, if Jaime swears an oath to Stoneheart to kill his sister, it will be a dark echo of the previous oath he swore to her: instead of swearing to save two lives and bring back Catelyn's daughters, he will be swearing to take a life and get Catelyn her vengeance. So there are multiple reasons why it would be excellent writing for this to happen.

@aliasfakename3159

11 ай бұрын

A couple of the Brotherhood men have misgivings about following Lady Stoneheart so having them free Jaime or die helping him and Brienne escape is in line with Martin's way of doing things. It's not a fairy tale ending where they all rise against their crazy leader, but instead the reluctant members are slain and the fugitives have to live knowing their survival cost lives.

@fromheaventoearth5779

9 ай бұрын

Ah, I really doubt Jaime is Martin's problem. The kids are the issue which is why he needed a time skip....

@kesavenelayapallavan7414

6 ай бұрын

@@frankvandorp2059 still wouldn't make sense, after the red wedding "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" there's no way Lady Stoneheart will trust him at all.

Another big thing going for Littlefinger putting Edmure (or at least his son) at Riverrun is that it’ll be another way of furthering manipulating Sansa into thinking he’s a good guy. It’s perfect for his character, politically and emotionally.

@bierwolf8360

Жыл бұрын

and Edmure would probably be too broken to really care about who holds the power, so he wouldn't even be a direct threat

@carlrood4457

Жыл бұрын

When you look at Littlefinger's presumed plan, you see the problem that he doesn't have enough people to hold the lands he'll lay claim to. Is he planning on Harold Hardyng to be a puppet he controls through Sansa? If so, how will he hold the North unless she's at Winterfell? Is she also in "in" at Riverrun? Of course Riverrun could just be a "nice to have" for him. He's already Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and it's not like the Tully's held that title because they were particularly more powerful than other houses in the region

@frankvandorp2059

Жыл бұрын

I don't think Littlefinger would do something like that to "manipulate Sansa into thinking he’s a good guy". He would just do it to get into her good graces, as he genuinely seems to desire Sansa and made her the replacement in his head of Catelyn. Sansa is perhaps the only person in the world Littlefinger wouldn't betray, and I expect this will become his downfall later in the series.

@rainy7106

Жыл бұрын

@@frankvandorp2059 Littlefinger is inherently manipulating Sansa for personal benefit, he's doing these thing only on the condition that he will somehow make her fall in love with him. I seriously doubt if Sansa showed herself to be repulsed by Littlefinger for his past actions, that he wouldn't immediately try to take revenage on her for not reciprocating his feelings. His lust and obsession with Sansa may lead to his downfall, yes, but its not going ot because of some genuine loyalty. It'll be due to his grand machninations falling apart, his lies being exposed, and everyone seeing him for what he truly is.

@frankvandorp2059

Жыл бұрын

@@rainy7106 I think the point where Sansa will show herself to be repulsed by Littlefinger will be the same moment where Littlefinger dies. He won't be in any position to take revenge on her, although I think it's more likely he would just embark on a hopeless quest to change her mind with his usual tricks.

As a fan of the audiobooks, "Oh Petyr! Petyr!" made me spit my drink out 😂

One of my theories is that Nymeria is gathering the great wolf pack to attack the Lannisters or Freys. Arya being a warg and witnessing the red wedding, Harranhall, as well as finding Catelyns body in a wolf dream Nymeria will experience her hatred of the Freys. So I think Nymeria really began increasing her pack in preparation to attack the people Arya blames for it

@concept5631

2 күн бұрын

Good pup

I have a lot of respect for lord manderly.The conviction and ammount of pure hatred it takes to resort to cannabilism to sell your vengance is kinda awesome.

I hate how Arya killed the Freys in the show, it was bad writing and fan service

@dookieshoe2905

Жыл бұрын

Ikr? How long exactly was she pretending to be him? Days? Weeks? XD

@stfnknbb

Жыл бұрын

And it was given like 1 second in the show

@barbaraludwiczak6798

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, this was so lame and so rushed.

@jjh2456

Жыл бұрын

I disagree. Cause there is so much Freys the show had to streamline.

@misabelrodriguez1163

Жыл бұрын

How would you think GRRM would deal with the Frey's in the books?

One of the most hype things I hope to see in Winds. 14:18 Lmao Oh Petyr, that Roy Dotrice audiobook was something else

@gamezocki

Жыл бұрын

I love them so much. I can't imagine listening to Winds of Winter, if it ever comes out, read by anyone else. RIP

@diaperfang5293

Жыл бұрын

@@gamezocki It is very unfortunate, but at least he gave us the original 5.

@BanesBasement

Жыл бұрын

Wisdom Hallyne knows how to get freaky RIP Roy Dotrice. His narration has been carrying me through some difficult IRL scenarios, his voice brings me peace after a long day. Hoping his successor does just as good a job!

There's like a hundred Freys so I imagine some baseborn Frey daughter married to a minor lord survives "A Dream of Spring" and her loyal husband is given the Twins to whoever survives the winter. The Freys were always known as uppity toll collectors so having them end as basically that led by a very minor noble would be cosmic justice.

What a dream team - my two favourite newer ASOIAF commentators and theorists in one video! The idea of a Frey civil war tearing the house apart from within is almost as satisfying as good old Lord Manderly's Frey pies were. I laughed out loud reading about those pies, they sounded damn tasty. Who says that revenge is best served cold? (Not that I'd want to eat something as vile as a Frey. But some of those Lannisters are a snack. 😉)

The collab we didn't know we need

5:18 You could've added the Ryswells too. Sure Roose is the son-in-law to Lord Ryswell, but his grandson is widely believed to have murdered by his bastard half-brother, now Roose's heir. Why should they bear any loyalty to the Boltons when any Bolton of Ryswell blood is now dead, and a bastard is the heir, not to mention he's supported by honorless curs.

Hot take - Freys will win the war and Black Walder becomes king of the Seven Kingdoms and protector of the Realm.

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

And who has a better story than Black Walder?

The Roy Dotrice sample 🤣❤ great video guys

@fantasyhaven1

Жыл бұрын

Haha I couldn't resist

@olofacosta3192

Жыл бұрын

​@@fantasyhaven1 oh petire,petire!!!

My theory: Brienne (Dunc's descendant) kicks Walder Frey down a well, he barely survives. Walder Frey dies from his wounds in his sleep, thinking things are gonna be great for House Frey. House Frey splits into seven different pieces and they each fight each other (Wymann Manderly eats some more of them (with Rickon Stark the Skagosi canibal)). Most of House Frey gets Red Wedded' 2.0 by the Brotherhood and Arya warged Nymeria. Littlefinger puts depressed Edmure or his son back in Riverrun.

I love that he uses different artwork than that same stuff all the other channels use.

Frey civil war ?🤔good very good my request was fulfilled 😁

@fantasyhaven1

Жыл бұрын

It's personally one of my favourite theories

I’ve only recently found both channels and I love them both so this is a treat! I will definitely check out the other video after this. More please 😊

Thank you for introducing me to Fantasy Haven. Love the drawings and animations. Reminds me of Oversimplified, OSP, and Jack Rackham but in his own unique style.

LOL the Lord Manderly is playing them all for FOOLS! section is the best piece of content I've ever seen

That civil war will just be the Tf2 Two Fort origin story

I’ve been watching this channel all weekend. Wow thank you both. This one was a very informative one

The animation for the video is really enjoyable, so props on that!

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

That was all Fantasy Haven! He’s got a ton of great animation over on his channel, you should check it out!

@fantasyhaven1

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed the animation

@nealfirstofhisname

Жыл бұрын

OMG it's the queen in the North.

Great video, guys. Really enjoyed this one.

"OH, PETYR-- PETYR!!" RIP Roy Dotrice, you mad lad.

Oh man. Ive just seen this now and it hit all the right spots. Haha! What a reading of family trees ASOIAF style! Im listening, listening, and it just keeps getting crazier, then it crescendos, and I barely had half a second to think "man, this was amazing! Hard core ASOIAF Genealogy to the max!" then I hear, "So!.... rtatatatatatatatat - more names and new children from six different branches of one side branch!" :D The dolls are too perfect, better drama and acting than in whole of GoT. This was fantastic. I do love when things are done with true gusto.

One issue is that Wylis Manderly was never even at the Red Wedding. He was captured by Gregor Clegane while he ambushed Roose Bolton's army on their way TO the Red Wedding. He's freed by Jaime at Harrenhal and sent to Maidenpool, so he can be sent North.

In the last Jaime chapter in AFFC, during Emmon Frey speech in Riverrun, we know that Tom of Sevenstreams is already there. Maybe he is the one leaking inside information about routes etc

I think Petyr has to be involved in starting the Frey Civil War but most of their family will have to be killed in the eventual Red Wedding 2.0. One way this happens is that his plans in the Vale fail and Harry dies before he can assassinate Sweetrobin. Petyr’s next play would be, as the lord paramount of the Riverlands and his ward Sweetrobin’s regent, to betroth Sweetrobin to Walda Frey (the daughter of Edwin). Therefore, any move against her (there will definitely be one) will be seen as an act of war and permit an invasion. Weird thing with this is what happens for Sansa’s story. Likely that her identity is not revealed in the Vale, and she stays at Harrenhal, and then Young Griff enters the playing field (I really think they’ll get married, it makes so much sense, it’s thematically fitting, and it moves the story forward).

@Bluemilk92

Жыл бұрын

Interesting. It's a bit out there, but you've some fun ideas.

I'm not convinced that little finger gives lordship back to the Tully's as his ark in my opinion is for revenge on the Tully's.

Great job guys

Pls make storm light theories I'd watch the shit out of that

Cool collab

I was very lost in the Frey clusterfuck; eyes glazed over and everything, until you said Sigma Finger and I snapped out of the daze. =))))))))

I always thought red wedding two would be when Pyter Balish marries Sansa at Hallanhal and tries to claim the Riverlands and the North. The mother of the bride arrives uninvited and hoists Pyter on his own petard.

@sierrabird3817

Жыл бұрын

you could have ended it with “petyrd” hehe petyr Baelish name pun 😂

15:31 Petyr *"Sigmafinger"* Baelish 💀

Love the colab

I, too, cannot wait to see where the Wyman Manderly twist leads. Certainly one of the "Dance..." cliffhangers im itching for, cmon GRRM, wtf!!! Im waiting! Lol

@shara1979

3 ай бұрын

We got the Blackfish out there, up to something. Hightowers def has a role too play. Oh! And what about Dark Star!? So much I can't wait for!

I love the avatars of the characters

OATHBRINGER!!! Nice lol. Any plans to make Sanderson content at some point? Anyways, this is a cool theory. Looking forward to seeing if it pans out like this.

Cool, video! The Frey subplot is one if the must convoluted yet intriguing and often overlooked aspects of the remaining books But I may have to watch this video again, because the whole tits for eyes thing was kind of distracting 😆 or were they supposed to be butts 🤔

The Lilfinger invasion idea sounds epic

Yeah bois this collab was good.

Just to pump this theory up, remember the rules of the game played by big/small walders in winterfell. Lords of the crossing

I’m going to keep it real we will probably never see the Civil War except for mentions of it in the background, but holy hell is that an absolute mess in the Riverlands. All they have to do is not kill each other and they control half the Riverlands anyway.

I am totally entertained

“jaime Lannister send his regards" roose bolton

Nice, bro. Peace from Brasil

Great video.

Red wedding two: the vengeance boogaloo.

It cannot be helped, i always laugh my ass off with the "Freylure" bit. XD

there are so many Freys I have no idea what is going on

14:18 you can just do that to me, that made me fucking lose it

Kicked in a well, thats some 300 stuff right there.

Also, all that gusto gave me an idea. I know where the Fish is. It's going to be a good one. -provided, of course, the Winds ever come out.

Got you with the like and comment bro 👍

I love Frey civil war theory and we have a Nobody expect Baelish Inquisition moment.

The best pie you have ever tasted, my lords. Wash it down with Arbor gold and savor every bite. I know I shall. Singer give us a song about the rat cook

I laught so hard with the "petyr" by lord dotrice himseft

the sign on maester preston....... clever

Grand Northern Conspiracy is REAL

Lol'd at calling Preston "The Mad Maester." It fits though, love his videos being so beautifully, squeaky clean following book quotes perfectly until he diverts into madness which doesn't seem out of the realm of somehwat reasonable possibilty after everything he said prior. At this point if he said Littlefinger was going to create the Rings of Power and Sweetrobin would end up with The One Ring, I'd not call it outright impossible.

Ooooh i like the peter baelish part of this

Interesting

Darkstar is going to b an interesting character. And Euron has been built up to b an awesome villain & obstacle for everyone in Westeros, with possible connections to the white Walkers, so Westeros has alot of trouble coming. All while goung thru its own drama, & now this Feagon.... And no idea Daenarys, Tyrion, etc are on their way with Victarion...

I love Wymann as a character but I must admit... making and eating those pies was rank! I am hoping for a better end for the Freys in the book though, scum that they are, and the current death by a thousand cuts approach certainly works for me.

I assume the wolf pack with Nimeria will take out the Freys. It is in the riverlands and near the Freys. Also in the show it is the next thing Arya sees, I just assume they could not afford a bunch of wolfs eating Freys with all the CGI for dragons.

Everyone says Lord Walder must surely die soon which means he's clearly going to outlive everyone who is banking on him dying somehow. Never underestimate an old man in a setting where most die relatively young.

15:25-15:47 the beat part of the video

the way you said if we ever get winds of winter hurt, just know deep down we wont see it

Since you dabbled into the idea of a red wedding 2.0 how about the dance of dragons 2.0 an idea presented by George himself but may have scrapped especially since we will have only 3 targaryens at best (if bastards from exiled targaryens throughout history don't come from essos) which doesn't scream a big fight between targaryens for the crown

Did Tywin start the Game of Thrones through the Darry's as the whole thing kicked off when Darry villagers came to Ned complaining about Gregor and their stories didn't really make sense, I'm thinking Tywin started it all.

Sanderson reference was unexpected but not unwelcome 😁

wyman manderly is such a cool guy, so sad he was cut

There's just to many freys to keep up !

As for the Frey Civil War, the Rosby Freys, and as many Vale-blooded Freys as possible, had better jump ship. Most of this is so that they can get Littlefinger's support, even the Brotherhood, for all of how they've become more terroristic, could see the writing in the blood.

No idea how the Bolton’s have such a large army when other bigger houses have smaller armies.

I think House Frey will have a very convoluted succession war… Should more Frey’s die in WoW. Especially in Stevron Frey’s line. It will be interesting if there is more chaos in the Riverlands, especially since Baelish has not really done anything to attend to the region.

Frey’s and their silly hats

Good.

@Him_Him_

Жыл бұрын

Varys is a mermaid

Correct me if i’m wrong but isn’t Stannis’ army comprised of northerners and his own men? I don’t think he has sellswords yet.

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

He has some, but will have a lot more with the support of the Iron Bank.

Keep making videos

I think the Freys don’t get massively damaged only they go missing one by one in the river lands and then they have a civil war and that’s when they all die apart from Oliver and Perwyn who were loyal to Robb

First, GRRM isnt going to do something so convoluted. Second, little finger isnt giving up on sansa's maidenhead.

Bro it was the third dunk & egg book

Narratively speaking it's basically the only possible conclusion to the Stoneheart arc. She revenges herself & House Stark on Walder Frey but in the process an innocent is killed & Stoneheart has to give up her immortality to save said innocent. I do wonder if that might end up being Sansa ? The fact she's in disguise is telling. It's pretty common in literature for people in disguise to end up getting hurt by someone who would not have wanted to hurt them if they had known who they really were.

Jin Sakai: "Honor died at the Red Wedding. The Freys deserve to suffer!"

Arya killing the Freys was cool in that moment, but I felt so cheated afterwards. Same with nights king but different. Aryas killing of the Freys would have been amazing if we spent an entire episode, just following different faces as they do things and set it up and then at the end they could have had the reveal that all these people were Arya the whole time. Could have been done amazingly. Having Arya kill the Nights King and just shit on the prophecy, there was no saving. GRRM turns prophecy in its head in an O. Henry style, he doesn’t build it up for years and then just throw it in the damn trash because, “cool.”

Green wedding w wildfire

Aren’t there missing uniforms on Frey and Lannister dead as well? Not thru with the video so maybe you mention it

Oathbringer? Stormlight Archive videos when?

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

I’d love to cover the series someday! Just have to finish it first lol.

But how Is the brotherhood going to achieve that if they ae so few?

@QuinnTheGM

Жыл бұрын

There are quite a few of them, and they could be bolstered by remaining/imprisoned Tully forces.

They all kill each other in a civil war Little Walder takes over for the family

Black Walder wear have a standard Frey sigil as depicted in this, his colors are reversed. Failure...freylure indeed

@fantasyhaven1

Жыл бұрын

Nah, Bastard Walder has his colours reversed. Black Walder is legitimate, so he bears the Frey colours :^)