This should be a great car which I will seriously consider to purchase as my next towing vehicle

Ford is now saying it'll have 11,8 kWh battery, 1000kg load, 3500kg towing capacity and about 40km of electric range. The pro power onboard feature will be capable of outputting 2,3 kW (10 A) or 6,9 kW (30 A). That is an awesome overland rig candidate.

Happy with my diesel V6 Ranger Sport thank you.

some interesting observations in this presentation , especially for the concept of powering a campsite 👍👍

@L2SFBC

10 ай бұрын

Glad you liked it!

Great summary Robert, thanks for the really informative vid and surprisingly positive review for the Ranger. Would you drive it through Nolans or similarly deep (Goulburn) river crossing in Vic high country?

@L2SFBC

9 ай бұрын

Yes I would.

I live in South Africa and we have planned blackouts of 6 to 10 hours per day. Having the outlander i can power my home esential appliances. And or shop .. During the blackouts and then fast charge when it comes back on line .. however not having a spare wheel is not comforting.. getting stuck on the side of the road here with a puncture kit would mean ones demise.

As someone who has already put money down to get in line for the ranger. I really hope that the engine is a miller cycle, just a bit more thermally efficient than the otto cycle. Its partly how the toyota hybrids are so efficent using the atkinson cycle (same thing just NA), in itself uses 25% less fuel without the electric assistance. but also lower power/torque. Without that engine type there is potential that real world fuel use in a hev mode would not be any better than the equivalent 2.0 diesel. Such not bringing much in the line of cost savings, when considering higher upfront cost. Id say battery size would be 14kwh min. The wrangler 4xe with a similar ev range has a 17kwh battery. Some people pointed out the floor in the tub is raised higher so likely the spot where the battery is hidden. So canopies and trays will be something awkward at first.

11km/100L? Driving a space shuttle around are we?

All well and good, but several petrol hybrids I've rented recently have seemed reluctant to coast, preferring to needlessly change rapidly between power on and regenerative braking mode, yielding economy very poor compared to a straight Diesel. I'd consider a Diesel hybrid, but the complexity raises concerns on long term reliability. A Diesel VW Passat recently rented astonished me with its economy, with best in class Diesel seeming to be the obvious best choice. And a 48V petrol hybrid Hyundai something-or-other I rented last week achieved poor economy and sported a ludicrous battery pack in the spare wheel well and no spare wheel. What is the use of that when you get a puncture ?

Thanks for that Robert, I've been considering an electric vehicle for some time now but found that we are not there yet, in terms of charging infrastructure, and regional areas' distances. Cost effectiveness is not there yet, if you need to charge in the public domain. This concept of using your battery in the PHEV at the campsite makes a lot of sense though. Would you connect the caravan via the vehicle's inverter or by a 12v Anderson plug? And, what would the equivalent Amp Hours be?

@L2SFBC

10 ай бұрын

Vans typically have a solar/aux input so it'd be off that I expect. There are plenty of convertors online, 8kWh is around 650ah @ 12v.

If its like the F150 hybrid it could even run a welder. The guys over at TFL truck used it on afarm to weld things up. The petrol engine automatically starts to charge the battery whilst the welder was on. It looked like a versatile system on the F150.

Hi there. The idea is really good, I like the concept of it. For the African market I don't think we'll get this. I think it would have been better to have a 2.0 single turbo diesel with the plug in hybrid. The electric only range could have been increased to 80km. Realistically I think that's okay for city driving and mid-out of town driving. Overall this video presentation is great. 🙌🏾💯

@L2SFBC

9 ай бұрын

Thank you!

It is potentially a very useful vehicle. You can use it like a Battery EV for short trips around town, then as a hybrid when towing the caravan , long distance touring regional and remote area travel where there is minimal or no charging infrastructure (not power grid to build one in many cases) But a little more range , maybe around 70-110km would have been handy

@L2SFBC

10 ай бұрын

Yes range would be nice if it was 100km...but then the battery needs to be bigger and heavier.

@roblogie1742

10 ай бұрын

@@L2SFBC excellent point !

The grenadier has the best of both worlds, bmw engines and transnission from ZF and G wagon 4x4 system. The patrol has always been better then the cruiser, toyota is just better at marketing and resale values. The 300 is not a pretty vehicle, but a great 4x4 to buy.

Sounds great. Not sure how it would be towing a large van around aus. Sounds like the battery would be flat all the time if you wanted to use all the combined power. This could leave you just with the power of the petrol engine alone

@L2SFBC

10 ай бұрын

Typically hybrids never let their battery get completely to 0%, but they would be able to function normally without any electrical assistance. If you were in sustained cruise, eg Nullabor, many freeways, rural parts of Victoria then the EV system becomes a dead weight. A further problem is at speed towing downhill there may be so much drag no regen is possible. So the viability of the PHEV remains very much use-case driven. In the case of the Ranger you could charge and then conserve the battery for when you most needed it.

Good summary. I've been thinking long and hard about PHEV or EV and in the end ordered an Outlander PHEV. Good for powering whatever we want/need when camping, no range issues when towing our 8x5 trailer full of gear when camping (which would be an issue with pure EV in a lot of WA) and driving around town most of the time as an EV by default. Plus capable all EV dual motor AWD system. Pretty good combination, Ranger would be similar I think, but we don't want/need a ute, just a wagon/SUV. But a Ranger petrol engine/electric motor combo would be certainly =nicer and smoother and quieter than a diesel. Though the V6 ranger diesel should be a nice thing so far as diesels go. We had the ancestor of that engine in a Territory and it was very smooth and quiet for a diesel, far better than normal ute 4 cyl diesel rubbish we put up with by default. I do think your battery size estimate is very much on the low side. Given that a PHEV would typically retain 20-25% of capacity at the bottom end when 'empty' on the gauge and that the Ranger is a big un-aerodynamic brick, I'd say you'd be looking at a 14kWhr battery or thereabouts.

@L2SFBC

10 ай бұрын

Thank you, great post! Might be 14kWh...we just don't know.

Hi Robert, being able to commute during the week in pure EV mode but still have a regular ute for trips sounds attractive, are there likely to be compromises in pure EV mode though that make this impractical? e.g. speed limited or insufficient power making it generally unpleasant to drive?

@L2SFBC

10 ай бұрын

Based on experience with other PHEVs, no compromise. I drove the Range Rover you see in the video 35km from the suburbs to the city, just. Cruised at 100km/h. Without knowing how Ford have done this one, I'd say it'd be a genuine 34-40km/h of electric only range, You see in the video the Rangie is in pure EV mode, working hard. Power isn't a problem either but you'd get best performance in hybrid mode.

A diesel probably was not used because a DPF would interfere with the power choice options if it were time for a burn.

What are your thoughts on this and other EV's for people like myself who want a vehicle to last 20+ years?

@L2SFBC

10 ай бұрын

Good question. I'd say it's most about the skills and parts available for 20 years into the future. Even the best built vehicles will need regular parts replacing. On that basis, I'd say EVs would be a good idea as they are simple; no need to worry about injectors for example, or parts of a complex gearbox. New batteries can be swapped in, as could new motors relatively easily. So I'd say EVs are a good long-term bet. PHEVs however are also ICE so ultra complex.

Many people fit solar panels to the roof racks of their utes or canopies, so could that be used to extend the usability of a hybrid at minimal cost?

@L2SFBC

10 ай бұрын

Could be used to recharge the battery for appliance purposes, if Ford have made that provision or an adaptor. However, solar panels that can be carried on a vehicle do not generate anywhere near enough power to propel the vehicle.

@BenMitro

10 ай бұрын

@@L2SFBC I was thinking a 1.5kw array could completely recharge the battery (8KW) while its sitting in the sun for a whole day, so another 45km available. It would need to cover the vehicle from windscreen to the rear bar however.

@L2SFBC

10 ай бұрын

Yes...then where do you store it?

@BenMitro

10 ай бұрын

@@L2SFBC It won't generate power if you store it. It just sits on the vehicle all the time. It was not intended as a practical solution, just the thought bubble of what is possible. I'm sure the Ford guys could engineer this to reduce drag and make it more convenient - somehow.

I expect Ford will upgrade the rear axle to a Dana 50 or a Super 8.8" to get the extra GVWR necessary to maintain payload and towing.

@einfelder8262

10 ай бұрын

That is wishful thinking at it's best.

@L2SFBC

10 ай бұрын

Think it's possible

I’m paying as much for electricity as for petrol at 40mpg [UK]. Apart from that I regularly tow 3.5 tons and do much farm work. Range when towing on electric will likely be minimal so it will rely on the petrol engine for the majority of towing milage and I suspect that the consumption will be sky high. My 2.0 twin turbo diesel does 34mpg unladen but only 18 to 22 mpg when towing half fully loaded and half milage empty trailer on return journey. I have severe doubts. It would be far better with a hybrid/diesel, either mild or plug-in. Electricity needs to be cheaper than I can currently get it as well to make a plug-in worthwhile. I’m paying nearly $0.75 Australian per kilowatt/hour for the medium term future.

@L2SFBC

10 ай бұрын

Thank you, very useful post. For farm work maybe it'd work if there was a lot of stop/start slow driving? And potential to use solar to recharge?

@hedydd2

10 ай бұрын

​@@L2SFBC A friend up in the village has installed solar with a battery and charges his new plug-in Range Rover Sport to charge. He uses very little petrol at all on his rounds as a financial investment consultant. It suits him great. It would not suit me on a working pickup truck. Certainly not until some mug proves it to be practical and economical for the type of work we do and long term. Battery technology is developing quickly so I’m not going to say ‘never’ but certainly not just yet. For new small and medium cars, maybe, and a better bet and less frustrating for the occasional long journey than a pure electric one, considering the dire charging infrastructure and cost of charging on a high speed commercial charger. There’s no doubt that times are changing but it will not be as fast as some people imagine.

Not a prius on screen... it is an old yaris

A 7kw battery shouldn't be heavy, could be 30~40kg.

@L2SFBC

10 ай бұрын

Usually 6.5kg per kWh, so over 40, plus the motor and all the other stuff could be 80-90 which would be a payload hit. And it might be more than 8. But yes, could well be the figures come out looking good.

@angeloudy

10 ай бұрын

@@L2SFBC The 2.3l petrol should be lighter than today’s V6 diesel. A Toyota camry hybrid is heavier than a 2.5l petrol Camry but lighter than the V6 Camry. But would be interested to see how Ford manage this.

@L2SFBC

10 ай бұрын

The Camry has a tiny battery, it's not a PHEV, think it's only 1kWh. But yes the 2.3 petrol would be lighter than the V6 diesel. The 2.3 petrol has a turbo, as does the diesel of course so there's no saving there.

@angeloudy

10 ай бұрын

@@L2SFBC Yes, but it's 90kg weight increase. You get the idea how much all the additional bits & pieces weigh. The 2.0l bi-turbo ranger is ~40kg lighter than the v6, I reckon the 2.3 petrol would be similar to that. Ford should aim for the 1t payload

@L2SFBC

10 ай бұрын

I think they are aiming for it...hope they make it!

I don't think there is a problem on earth that a hybrid solves, whether it's a plug-in or an ICE generator on board. If EV suits you, get one, otherwise ICE is still your answer. Why would anyone buy two systems to maintain, inevitably service costs must be higher, and any repair costs could balloon as one mechanic sends the problem to the electrical fixer who then says no it's mechanical.

@hi9580

2 ай бұрын

you can't or wouldn't want to run petrol generator everywhere. ICE with small 12V lithium battery is limited by the size of the car's alternator, you end up using power quicker than the car's alternator/solar can recharge. Phev has much larger battery, faster recharge and the battery/electrical systems are designed for offroad conditions. It's more convenient (for high electric power use) while costing more and being less reliable.

Pass 2, don’t like FORD neither EL cars. Leave this for the people fancy it. Cheers

Sounds like lots of computing... electric cars are powered by electric which is generated how? How much is the real payoff. With the cost of electric the charging should be cost in. Electric is the future however i don't think yet... For Regen you have to go up to go down... think there should be a focus on hydrogen. The campsite idea is great however i would rather have a separate power system. I like the focus on little to no noise. For me I will pass.

@L2SFBC

10 ай бұрын

You can regen by slowing down not just going down. Hydrogen has too many problems I feel to be mainstream.

Pass. I'll stick with my existing diesel and 300Ah of Lithium.

Yeah right ! National parks will ben them as a fire risk . Get an idea