Anyone know why they mispronounced Harkonnen in the 2021 film?

@NightmaresinParadise

Жыл бұрын

that’s the way frank herbert pronounces it apparently. it’s odd bc herbert also pronounces chani as “chaini” but the film just sticks to how most people pronounce her name.

@NightmaresinParadise

Жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/q2F4ppisZdjPdrA.html

@jaystatler8298

Жыл бұрын

Wow so the 2021 film does pronounce it correctly thank you for taking time to help

@JohnnyRico118

2 ай бұрын

Harkönnen

@komando5102

2 ай бұрын

@@NightmaresinParadise I think it'd be weird to have a girl who's name sounds like Cheney now.

People wouldn't be able to Handle the book version of the Baron dude violated everything and one. Men, women and children. He was a truly unchecked monster.

@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus

2 ай бұрын

Am I the only one who see the overlap between the baron and the judge from blood meridian?

@ManiacMayhem7256

2 ай бұрын

@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus Holy cow good point

@pwyll63627

2 ай бұрын

​@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus he also bald and albino in dune part 1 like the judge

@tropicvibe

2 ай бұрын

Yet in the 2nd movie they've got the Baron killing his own servants without rhyme or reason like some mindless idiot, which he definitely isn't

@WhyTho525

Ай бұрын

​@@tropicvibe He only killed like 2 of his own slaves

Yeah, as a gay guy, I never read the Baron as portraying 'homosexual' so much as portraying the worst of lust in incestuous sexual tendency. He likes them young, a prefers specific types and they are male because it's more about dominance and ruination of masculinity then it is about just the sex, he prefers taking them by force but only in a fight if he is in the mood.

@melvert33

2 ай бұрын

There has been criticism, and I think rightly, that Frank Herbert when writing Dune in the 60s was homophobic and that is represented by the Baron. Herbert wanted to present him as truly vile and being gay is, in his opinion, a representation of that vileness. I'm a big fan of the book but reading up on Herbert in real life he's not so great. One of his sons was gay and Herbert did not treat him well.

@user-gj2il8fj5w

2 ай бұрын

​@melvert33 ... degeneracy and mental-illness is nothing to celebrate. Herbert was a profound thinker and noble word-wright.

@michaelhansen2309

2 ай бұрын

@@melvert33 yep I think a lot of people forget it was written in the 60s when being gay was still massively taboo, seen as vile and quite often equated with pedophilia. Hell some people still hold that view to this day, so no doubt it would resonate with the readers back then that an absolutely vile villain would be a feminine, obese child molesting gay incestuous sadist. I think it's absolutely fine that Denis decided to not to spend screen time on these character traits. I think it's much less likely that people would walk out of the cinema thinking all obese people are evil, than the bigots getting their warped view of gays reinforced by having the Baron fuck and murder slave boys.

@microwave4928

2 ай бұрын

You’ll reach as far as you can to not admit that there’s a gay guy in the story and he’s a depraved villain

@michaelhansen2309

2 ай бұрын

​@microwave4928 tell us more about how you wish there was slave boy rape and murder on screen and what good it would do to the story

I don’t think the Baron is “gay” I think he is depraved. What gets him off is the dominance, power, control and the sadistic torture of victims. Maybe he sees it as more sadistic when they are male given that women are not valued on their planet. All his appetites are to excess. He indulges everything to an unhealthy extreme because extremism is unhealthy and bad. Maybe the author was fat shaming, homophobic etc. Who cares? Once a book or movie is published for view you are no longer able to govern its intentions or how people perceive it. We can all think what we like about the Baron and we can all be right.

@He-who-wakes

Ай бұрын

THIS

Feyd Rautha is also a victim of the Baron. It is heavily implied that he sleeps with him. Another noteable hint to it is he's almost succeeded in assassinating the baron bec he knows which part of the slave boy's thigh the baron will touch. Brian Herbert wrote much about the background of Feyd and his brother Rabban in his House of Harkonnen book, which, from what I know, he based from his father's notes.

@based-ys9um

24 күн бұрын

Bro thinks Brian Herbert stuff is canon 😂😂😂

@rickacton7540

7 күн бұрын

@@based-ys9um BH wrote from frank's notes, granted he filled them in in a klutzy way (probably deliberately)

@rickacton7540

6 күн бұрын

@@based-ys9um true he could easily lie about it, but theres no evidence of that. makes more sense that BH is trying to erase FH's legacy (probably as directed by FH, ppl have no idea the kind of mind games these jesuits play)

when he said "the young paul atreadis" i said bruh irl

@agravemisunderstanding9668

29 күн бұрын

Thats kinda the point

It’s very hard to do it directly since the movie is limited to being PG-13, but the director was really good at giving strong indications of what’s going on. Like how he was able to portray the sounds of screams of Atreides’ soldiers being tortured in the background during the bath scene in Dune 1.

@barry4649

2 ай бұрын

Yeah he really did it well in Part 2

I’m gay and I don’t think it’s homophobic to make the only “gay” character a monster.

@El_payaso2006

2 ай бұрын

Tho the trait is more focused on “PDF file” sides xD

@campetrie6562

2 ай бұрын

@@El_payaso2006 lol. Touché!

@oatlord

2 ай бұрын

It's the same as making Mary Sues or rewriting history to race swap. Hollywood is saying "these groups of people have no merit or accomplishments except those we create. "

@melvert33

2 ай бұрын

That's fair enough but it's pretty certain that Frank Herbert was homophobic and in trying to come up with a truly vile person in the Baron he considered being gay as one of those traits. Reading up on the author he doesn't sound so great.

@iside2373

2 ай бұрын

Well the author literally did it because of that because he was homophobic so...

Speaking as a gay man, I do actually think the gender of the slaves is something Herbert wants the reader to note. Herbert was in his own life a homophobe, and refused to let his gay son visit his own mother as she was dying. Its the age old canard that gay men are inherently predatory, stemming from the fear certain men have that gay men will sexualize them like they sexualize women. Had the gender of the slaves been irrelevant, there would have been girls. To me, the novel seems to imply that the Baron's sexuality is a symptom of his depravity. He's described as dancing and prancing through the air as he acts out his evil. I appreciate the fact that the movie Baron has turned out to be sexless, as his flavor of evil transcends something as mundane as sex. He desires far more power over others than that, and there is something about sex that makes one vulnerable.

@tft100

Ай бұрын

Nah

@kalitzina

Ай бұрын

He has women as well, didn't he conceive Jessica with a bene gesserit?

@christianmccauley7340

Ай бұрын

@@kalitzina the implication with that was that he was simply seduced I thought. Regardless, in the 60s, lots of people thought that gay people were actually just straight people who wanted to victimize other straight people lmao

They do kinda imply it to an extent, the barons servants in the new movies are naked young children with black eyes dressed in translucent plastic dresses. I think Denis put them in to imply the grossness of the baron and his lust

I am a massively huge fan of the Dune book. Also, Frank Herbert was a known homophobe and the fact that the only character shown to have sex with an individual of same gender was a sadistic, depraved pedophile was not a coincide. A reader in the 1960’s & 70’s may have read the book and seen the homophobic intention of the character. For me reading it in the 1980’s as a teen, I didn’t read the Baron as gay. He was such a horrid, depraved monster, and his preferred victims were youths, I don’t associate him with homosexuality. He’s just a pedophile monster. Politics aside, it would have been challenging to show the Baron’s full depravity and keep the PG13 rating.

@slapthedirtylittlejap8217

2 ай бұрын

this doesn't make any sense, if a person is male and has relations with males, he IS gay, what is gay to you guys anyways?

@BlueShift24

10 күн бұрын

I read him as a sadistic sex freak who derives lust and climax out of violence. And possibly a cannibal.

Part Two went there guys. Not explicitly. But it is very obviously implied both through sound and then image as you see the result of the sound.

@ManiacMayhem7256

3 ай бұрын

Yeah it's very subtle.

@kp-legacy-5477

3 ай бұрын

they seem to be young girls too but i could be mistaken

@ManiacMayhem7256

3 ай бұрын

@@kp-legacy-5477 Idk. Couldn't tell much. They could be just effem look

@wert7773

2 ай бұрын

@@kp-legacy-5477 Yeah both answers could be right, maybe they're Harkonnen women or maybe they're catamites, it's hard to discern considering the lack of hair among other human traits lacking

@gabsnandes7818

2 ай бұрын

​@@kp-legacy-5477I couldn't tell, but in my opinion, the screams were definitely from someone very young

Herbert understood that sexual abuse and abuse of authority go hand in hand. The children were there to show that the Baron isn’t just a head of state shackled by national interest - he’s right in his element and delights in what he is doing.

Hollywood is in the business of protecting predators, not showing them in a negative light. The new Dune films are great, but I felt this new Baron was far too restrained.

@tiberseptim8434

2 ай бұрын

I thought that was the catholic church? They‘ve been doing it a little longer.

@Damaxyz

2 ай бұрын

@@tiberseptim8434 lol exactly, Hollywood is new at the game - the Catholic church has been doing this for hundreds of years. They're not as good at covering their tracks.

@dragerdet

2 ай бұрын

Well they had to keep the movie pg13

I remember reading Dune in HS. Definitely dark reflection of how bad things can be.

Good video! I am excited to see Austin Butler’s performance of Feyd-Rautha after learning all that about his character

I mean Villeneuve was pretty clear that he had no intention to tread that ground, Frank Herbert was a homophobe and disowned his son for being gay so its hard to separate that the only character who's vaguely homosexual is also a pederast and a sadist. He does show interest in young girls as well commenting on Alia Atreides being slightly too young for his tastes, but I feel its a mistake to unmarry Frank Herbert's real world homophobia from his depiction of the Baron in Dune. If you're garnering that Frank Herbert was potentially trying to make a connection between pederasty and homosexuality being similar forms of sexual deviancy...you're probably on the mark imo.

@PeterSmith-go9ef

2 ай бұрын

I agree with your analysis, Herbert gave his son dogs abuse for being homosexual, and wanted nothing to do with him when he came out. To claim the writers real life homophobia did not influence his creating the tired queer trope of a predatory homosexual paedophile is disingenuous.

@oPurpleGorillao

Ай бұрын

They are similar forms of sexual deviancy

@christianmccauley7340

Ай бұрын

@@oPurpleGorillao no, they're not. Actual psychologists disagree with you, but nazi psychologists would probs take your side.

@Tokmurok

Ай бұрын

Damn. Based herbert.

He really tugs at your heart plugs.

Of course they didn't. Hollywood loves that stuff.

@shanemcginnis1037

24 күн бұрын

Yikes

To soften the edge of Feyd's punishment with more genetic pets just serves to make the Harkonnens seem like weirdos rather than the monsters Herbert wrote them to be.

The Baron is not a character out of fiction but is the very real disposition and mentality of all politicians and elected leaders, especially here in Afrika.

i think there were male and female "pets" in Dune 2 hard to tell with the hairless look they could have been male or female

@technofilejr3401

2 ай бұрын

I think only Feyd had female pets.

@user-by2dk9ns8s

2 ай бұрын

This was stated in the book when Herbert stated the Baron made him kill all his harem girls. Feyd also wants Irulan when he meets her and the Emperor before his showdown with Paul. @@technofilejr3401

The PG-13 rating will also be a factor.

@empyrean-jamelgreaves8034

3 ай бұрын

It went there

@based-ys9um

26 күн бұрын

​@@empyrean-jamelgreaves8034it didn't but go off

They did show what appears to be male slaves in part 2 during the geidi prime scenes, they were standing next to females, both wearing a sort of tube outfit. I could be wrong.

these new movies were way too safe...it's all very pretty and filmy...but where was the nasty stuff....??

@liabw05

2 ай бұрын

Wasn’t it nasty enough?

@nomnom2458

2 ай бұрын

It was pg 13 which is interesting, maybe for a larger audience?

@Cleveland_Rocks

2 ай бұрын

@@liabw05 I think it was lacking tension and real nastiness. DV seems to have a whole thing with people immersed in engine oil. I don't find that scary. It's not spooky to me. It was in Blade Runner. I saw it, and I'm over it. in dune, everybody is so restrained all the time, it's as if he's afraid of an actor being a little hard to control.

I watched Dune part 2 two days ago and spoilers. Villeneuve doesn't show them

@petter8166

2 ай бұрын

not surprising

@Steve_643

2 ай бұрын

Actually The Baron doesn’t have much to do in Part 2.

@krusher74

Ай бұрын

i saw them dead in the corner.

The surface that the movie showed was enough. I haven’t read the book, and it was clear enough to me that the baron is detestable. No overexplaining necessary.

To be honest with you, I wouldn’t have been able to watch the film if they went through with that sort of direction for the Baron

The Baron represents a leader with power and fear. Fear is often the creator of Evil. Fear holds the truth, but at the end of everything, lies a lie.

3:55 FOR REALS 🌲 thank you for putting this to words

Yeah I always found it a little absurd to say that because a work contains a homosexual predator as a villain that the work is then homophobic. There's so much violence and sexual assault of women in dark fantasy/sci-fi fiction that if it wasn't directed at the fellas once in a while it would be ridiculous.

Turns out they do!

How have you not seen the Dune Miniseries?

@Viv8ldi

Ай бұрын

Which one

I love Denis Villeneuve adaptation of Dune, but there's a price to be paid: "modern" Holywood wouldn't allow a LGBTQ+ character (or other minoritary group) to be portraid as a villain. So, I think Dune parte 2 won't show or even suggest this aspect of Baron's personality.

@empyrean-jamelgreaves8034

3 ай бұрын

WRONG sir! I saw it. Due to rating it wasn't shown however its very obviously implied in a lengthy scene, both in sound and image after.

@christostefan

3 ай бұрын

I believe both of you are correct.

@daneyal7162

3 ай бұрын

Honestly, I don't really mind them not including THAT part of his depravity. I already saw what he did in the original movie, I don't need a reminder.

@DBCOOPER888

3 ай бұрын

Why are you lumping in child rapists with LGBTQ+? It would be over the top villainous in this movie.

@ManiacMayhem7256

3 ай бұрын

Saw part 2. It was there, but so implied that it will fly over most audience's heads

Idk how i didnt notice this when i read dune it was really obvious

Seeing this as a non book reader ,In Denis Vellenue Dune 2 Baron's death wasnt satisfying and it was quick and simple ,Harsher deaths have been given to cruel people in real life

@NightmaresinParadise

Ай бұрын

i think you would be very disappointed in his death in the book it’s quite literally an instant death… the movie was a lot more drawn out with it lasting a whopping 10 seconds. but i also think it’s due to the fact that paul is the one to do it in the film it makes it much more personal and tightens the story a bit. i do wish rabban got a bit more considering his brutality against gurneys friends and family

Does anyone else see the shrieking faces in the steam around the Baron??

Look all I’m saying is Timothy chálame was the perfect actor for this role

Sure, Herbert highlights Harkonnen’s depraved nature more than his homosexuality, but it begs the question WHY did he make this specific character gay instead of literally anyone else or anyone at all? It really does seem like Herbert wanted to add to the depravity by making him gay, therefore being gay to being depraved in a way.

Dune Dune Dune

@NightmaresinParadise

Жыл бұрын

yes yes yes

Nice analysis!

@NightmaresinParadise

Жыл бұрын

thank you sire

Very interesting.

Very Small Spoiler Warning: The subject of homophobia is explored on page 315 of God Emperor of Dune. (Book 4) I don't want to dissect the minute components of the scene in question, you should do so for yourselves, but Duncan Idaho is reprimanded for having a homophobic reaction to seeing a lesbian couple. In short, this is intended to illustrate that morals and normality differ from era to era. (This takes place thousands of years after the events of Books 1- 3, if that helps.) My take on Baron Vladimir is that he's largely based on historic figures like the Roman Emperor Caligula. The spider creature may be a nod to the Tleilaxu, and it's softly implied that the Baron's mentat Piter De Vries was one of them. (They'll be introduced in Dune Messiah.)

This is so on point. Well said son

Frank Herbert did once say that "homosexuality is a choice to end the human race" (which I couldn't disagree more with) but I attribute that to the era in which he lived. It's easy to overlook because it's not integral to the story nor did he actively seek to harm the gay community. I'd like to think that his views may have evolved were he still alive today.

@thomriley1036

Жыл бұрын

Mild Spoilers: In Book 4, God-Emperor of Dune, Duncan Idaho is reprimanded for making homophobic comments about two of the all-female Fish Speakers when he sees them kiss. Now, Duncan was a kid on Giedi Prime and has many very good reasons to hate the predatory Harkonnens. Baron Vladimir himself is based on the Roman Emperor Caligula, who shared a similar predatory hedonism. But, in the story, Duncan is taught a lesson about how the morals of one era are the ancient history of another. History itself is not a linear march of progress, but a cycle of rewrites by victorious regimes to push narratives and control populations. Some debts can never be repaid and nobody is "the good guy."

@MrDoctorMabuse

3 ай бұрын

Herbert somewhat evolved past his homophobia toward the end of his life, per his son Brian, but unfortunately too late in a sense. One of his sons, the late Bruce Herbert was gay (died of AIDS, sadly) and this admission and his life led to a permanent rift his relationship with his father. Despite their sometimes also difficult times, another son, Brian wrote a fine biography of Frank, and is I believe his chief literary executor and author of his own Duniverse books (which often have a mixed reputation).

@PaganMinDNW

2 ай бұрын

​@@MrDoctorMabuseBrian isn't gay... Bruce was, but he died in 1991

@MrDoctorMabuse

2 ай бұрын

@@PaganMinDNW thank you for the correction. I will edit my comment best I can.

@tomigun5180

2 ай бұрын

The era did not change, only the censorship of normal opinions is much stronger by the Big Brother.

I didn't see the Baron as a LGBT+ character. He was the exact opposite of the Atradies house. Leto was well respected and loved by lots of ppl and other houses. The Harkonen were a house that was despised, feared, and hated. The Baron took pleasure off the suffering, fear, and terror of others. He didnt care who or what gave him pleasure but he wanted them to suffer first. He's a sadistic, barbaric and all of the other detestable qualities in human form but just very smart, charismatic and strategic. Even Rabon is pretty gross

Do none of you know what it’s like to be an adult human?

hmm, the only child abuser in the novels is an evil character... what a shock

Its interesting the scifi epic before star wars had a gay character which was evil at time when any characters were rare, and star wars didn't at all depict any until recently, and now full circle dune has its gay character subdued of those aspects because they are a evil And the old movie made just after star wars did depict this aspect of him with the heart plug thing

It didn't

No

I think audiences are desensetized to any "horror" that Dune couid throw their way. Our society is rotten

sadly dune is PG13

erm ...no

"rath" "villanoove" Nope I'm out...

3:52 honestly, I think that he deliberately made him a gay child molester, because in the 70s being was much more stigmatized and child molestation in general was a bit less stigmatized. So this was probably not homophobic in intention, yet deliberately chosen for a homophobic society, so the intended horror could come across. You never know though

no idea if the author's homophobic. never read the books. but I saw the older movies.. from what i saw of the Baron's character, he enslaved young men, forced them to his bed, and tortured and killed them. I don't recall seeing young women in that movie, so in my mind he's like an all powerful Gacy, the serial killer, who does his deeds in the open. Because I dislike his character so much, I refused to go watch the first movie because then I'd have to wait to see his character die. and I guess they're trying to make 3 movies now. lol. even this new spider thing gets on my nerves. it's like the guy gets off on violating human dignity. so in the books did it say he was a pedophile and went after young girls too?... didn't get that from the movie I saw. interesting.

@NightmaresinParadise

Жыл бұрын

the david lynch movie sort of just implies his attraction to young boys but the heart plug thing is not in the book. there aren’t any explicit mentions but the way it’s really heavily implies molestation. his nephew implants a poison needle into a slave boys thigh with the logic being that the baron will be in that area… so it’s never stated but i’d say it’s rather obvious. and the third movie is based off the second book so the second film will conclude the barons story whereas the third film will continue the story of paul and chani.

@thomriley1036

Жыл бұрын

(Edit: I've been answering so many Dune-related questions lately. It seems I posted something twice. My appologies.) Big Spoiler Warning: Vladimir returns as the main antagonist of Book 3, Children of Dune. Although the Baron himself is dead, his ego possesses Alia Atredies and he uses her to get revenge by destroying her family's credibility and turn his old enemies against eachother. At first he seems sympathetic toward her, but quickly asserts more and more control. By the end, he's using her body to seduce grown men for his own hedonistic impulses. In the prequel novel, House Atredies, by Brian Herbert, the younger Baron Vladimir is depicted as a handsome and fit homosexual man. His sexuality actually works to his advantage, as he is somewhat immune to the more direct sort of Bene Gesserit influence. Eventually, the Sisterhood grows impatient and sends an agent to handle him. She manipulates him through threats and bribery into impregnating her, which he views as a distressing violation. Worse, the pregnancy proves invalid, and when she returns to Giedi Prime, he has her incapacitated and makes a recording of himself violating her; to spread amongst his people as a symbol of his masculine power. In retaliation, she releases a weaponized biological agent that disrupts his body chemistry, causing him to exponentially gain weight amid other abject side effects. This slowly degrades his mental state, turning his ambitious nature toward ever worse and greater narcissistic behavior, until he becomes the outright monster we see in Frank Herbert's Dune. I hope this helps.

@technofilejr3401

2 ай бұрын

In the first Dune book, it’s pretty much shown that Baron Vladimir shares a bed with Feyd early on. That is on nights he isn’t “wrestling with slave boys” as he describes it. The Baron also is shown to have very horrific fantasies about doing something worse to Paul Atreides.

@mich722

2 ай бұрын

@@technofilejr3401 Which scene is that with Feyd?

Wraith.

This came from his son being gay and he never accepted it

Now before I say this, homosexuality is seen as wrongful in my religion and I do see it as a wrongful sexual habit just like premarital sex. With having said this, the Baron isn't a homosexual. It's more so he loves defiling everything. Look at his homeworld: it's defiled. He loves the black sun for it is defiled. He leaves no stone unturned. I can only imagine what he was going to do to Leto Atreides body after he killed him if it wasn't for the poiso tooth. It shows the simplicity of his love for disgust, truly.

I mean just because someone is gay doesn't mean they can't be evil. Though I doubt the modern world could allow for such a conclusion to be shown on screen.

It did not, will not, and at a cert of PG13 can not; no disposable 'catamites' for this Baron.

people that are mad over the baron in the books are a bunch of babies

The gays saw baron Harkonnen and immediately thought "this is supposed to be us"

@El_payaso2006

2 ай бұрын

Uh no?

@slapthedirtylittlejap8217

2 ай бұрын

yeah, they do that a lot

More Weinstein than gay to me

the first film was shit...hopefully the second is better - thou it didnt matter....the old one is superior...

3:30 I largely disagree with this point. Herbert is noted as being homophobic in his personal life and elsewhere in the book comments on homosexuality. He could've just as easily had the Baron be heterosexual and had it be as disturbing because he is a rapist and a pedophile. Herbert chose to make the Baron gay and that says a lot about how he views gay people. One counterpoint to myself is that this would've not worked to produce the incestuous aspect of the Paul look alike. However due to his other comments I believe being gay was not done to allow for this plot point, and due to Herberts genius I am certain that he could've created this without the Baron being gay.

The book was written in the 1960s and mfs still gonna be mad that there's not more "normal" gay characters lol

@frustratedalien666

2 ай бұрын

On the contrary, what I'm seeing here are a bunch of people who are miffed that the 2023 adaptation of the 1960s book decided to not show the only LGBTQ character as a child predator 🤷‍♂️

@kvarterto4277

Ай бұрын

@@frustratedalien666 "LGBTQ character" 😄 No such thing as LGBTQ exist. The baron is no doubt gay, so he can be called a LGB character.

I have always seen the Baron's proclivities to be his desire and thirst to control and destroy. The idea that he embodies the Sins is spot on... He takes each one to the grotesquely extreme, so this would apply to his sexual gratifications. His desire for the 'Paul' look-alike has nothing to do with Homosexuality; he wants to inflict horrors by proxy on his foe. Everything Harkonnen oozes with depravity and destruction.

Sounds like a rich White Liberal in the United States!

@pr3cious193

Ай бұрын

Spoken like a true moron

I can't wait for this period of "wokeness" to end and leave Hollywood and the rest of the world.

@DBCOOPER888

3 ай бұрын

wtf are you talking about? It's like you see enemies everywhere you look. Why are you so afraid?

@ManiacMayhem7256

3 ай бұрын

Huh?

@joaogabrield.s.moreno2333

3 ай бұрын

is this "wokeness" in the room with us right now ??

@franz3810

3 ай бұрын

​@DBCOOPER888 the movie is woke af dude what are u on

@ManiacMayhem7256

3 ай бұрын

@@franz3810 Critical drinker enjoyed the movie

Oh it's definitely homophobic. The Baron is a foil to the values the narrative seeks to advocate for. Gays were not mentioned ANYWHERE else, so we know the author's goal was not to include gay characters because gay people exist. So we can safely say making the foil the only non-heterosexual character was a deliberate choice & that choice was to advocate that non-heterosexual attraction is bad. I dont see any purpose in shying away from the explicit message of the author. He made a creative choice, his work conveys a message, and his work will be evaluated on it.

The baron is trump!

@tomigun5180

2 ай бұрын

You forgot to add REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

@janecreek681

21 күн бұрын

lol

I’m gay and I gleamed it from the text. As a sci-fi fan I do find it hard that two of my favorite authors have homophobic undertones in their work. I don’t like how people throw it aside. Frank Herbert may have become more enlightened between dune and god emperor, I find it too little too late.

@ManiacMayhem7256

3 ай бұрын

Idc

@franz3810

3 ай бұрын

so gay people can't be depraved? I am not saying heteros are angels, but saying a gay character cant be like this is insane

@technofilejr3401

2 ай бұрын

@@franz3810Agreed. People are multidimensional and can have conflicting characteristics.

@mich722

2 ай бұрын

I don't think he's necessarily homophobic. Whatever his views, he's at least tolerant and has a live and let live view and accepting of people choosing however they wish to live.

@RealHogweed

2 ай бұрын

I’m thankful for the expanse existence

The book represented homosexuality very well

Trump is Baron... 😂

It's homophobic. Just face it.

@AMDA_

2 ай бұрын

Not really. Homosexuality is against nature ergo a perversion of the human soul. Not all the propaganda in the world will convince me of the opposite.

@michaelhansen2309

2 ай бұрын

​@@AMDA_ yet male whales are fucking. You people are nuts

@tomigun5180

2 ай бұрын

And?

@christianmccauley7340

Ай бұрын

@@AMDA_ I mean it's literally not against nature, it happens often in nature. by being "Against nature" you mean it feels icky lol

@musakamara4157

26 күн бұрын

​@@tomigun5180and that's bad.

Men like that aren't necessarily gay they simply act on what ever impulse they have at that period in time because they can without consequences . So they indulge their desires one way or enoughter.

I can't stand the woke undertones in the commentary ridiculous really love the movies love the story but you're unbelievable

@christianmccauley7340

Ай бұрын

somebody is unbelievable lol

@tinycatfromhell

22 күн бұрын

Are the woke undertones in the room with us?

No

No