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@alaskankare

2 ай бұрын

should you have the grain run parellel or at 90 deg to your path?

A reasonable t-bolt is toilet flange bolts, there way cheaper than premium bolts.

@kennethstaszak9990

2 ай бұрын

It's what I use too.

@steveb796

2 ай бұрын

Then your toilet will fly away. 😂

@MichaelCampbell01

2 ай бұрын

@@steveb796Eat fewer beans; you'll be ok.

@terryjones9784

2 ай бұрын

First rule of woodworking… When u have to visit the bathroom for supplies, ur doing it wrong

@keithmarlowe5569

2 ай бұрын

My wife. "Why are all the toilets wobbly all of a sudden"?

I am a metals recycler and I have the Best solution for this problem. When I recycle this my local yard pays $0.70 A Pound I'm not sure what T Track weights by the foot But my yard will sell any of the scrap to you for 2x what they paid for it I Purchase 10FT Extrusion Aluminum stock On a regular basis for projects That is much heavier than T Track for around $7 A Stick If you Purchase from your local scrap yard It is much Better for the environment too No shipping cost either

@MacroAggressor

2 ай бұрын

That was my thought... milling aluminum is easy mode. I definitely would _not_ recommend using wood for a consistent friction and precision clamping face like this.

@joshuamurphy5073

2 ай бұрын

@MacroAggressor I think most hardwoods or quality plywoods are just fine for most workholding tasks, and certainly cutting stops if you don't abuse it. I've been transitioning away from aluminum for a couple years, mostly using Microjig matchfit stuff. Scrap yard is still good advice for sourcing extrusions. I'm going to give that a shot for my next router sled.

@davidzindler5858

2 ай бұрын

you're not 'clamping'. You're work holding, which requires less pressure.@@MacroAggressor

@MacroAggressor

2 ай бұрын

@@davidzindler5858 The surface of the slot is being clamped against, the distinction is pointless and inaccurate. While there is less pressure overall, the only important factor here is PSI. In this case, the surface the force is applied to is both much smaller, and less structurally rigid (due to being at the edge of the material).

@MacroAggressor

2 ай бұрын

@@joshuamurphy5073 I strongly agree for most purposes, but this is not a good application for using wood. It will wear out prematurely, you will lose accuracy, and end up spending more in both materials cost and labor... all for an objectively inferior result. If you're going to do the work, at least use the correct material.

I made these and have aluminum ones, the aluminum are way better IMO and I buy them dirt cheap at Temu

Hardwood is just as expensive as aluminum now in Canada.

@FiltyIncognito

2 ай бұрын

Yikes, how ironic. Ye olde timber rafters would balk at the absurdity.

@Zzrdemon6633

2 ай бұрын

Just as expensive? Hard wood is easily double where I am, I can get 16ft of t channel for 64$ last time I bought walnut it was about 125 for 4 4”x1”x48” pieces

@qwerty112311

2 ай бұрын

@@Zzrdemon6633idk where you live, but where I am, walnut is over twice as much as oak, maple, and ash.

@StumpyNubs

2 ай бұрын

A board foot of hardwood should yield about 10 feet of T-Track. Any small mill should have rough or skip-planed hardwood of some sort for $5 or less a board foot. I've seen plenty of maple on Facebook for less than that in Michigan.

@fharrisstowe

2 ай бұрын

And I happen to have some otherwise useless oak scrap....

Yeah, I started out cutting t tracks in with my router... Pretty much immediately switched to the aluminium ones. They're worth every penny. Not only are they far, far stronger than anything wooded (especially given you usually end up cutting the tracks along the grain) but they also have a far lower friction fit with much lower tolerances. Not always important if your after clamp points, but super important for jigs that need to slide along the track...

@ThomasD66

4 күн бұрын

In many cases agree, but an intermediate option is to use the wooden tracks set with strips of HDPE/UHMW drilled and tapped for 1/4"-20 bolts. They slide easy, track perfectly and spread the clamping force across a greater bearing surface.

I use the Matchfit router bit with the Matchfit clamps.

@joelfouse

2 ай бұрын

So do i, and love them. The only downside is their bolts and clamps aren't really super cheap either when you decide you need more of them

I've found an easier and more durable solution is to screw steel or aluminium strips either side of a channel that is either routed or built up from layers of material. For a flush face the material can have a recess routed the thickness of the metal strips. The size and spacing of the screws is adjusted based on how much force the track needs to take. If the metal does get damaged, then simply unscrew it and either clean up with a file, turn it around or replace with a new piece. Steel strip is pretty inexpensive and readily available online and in big box stores.

I use the Misumi 2020 extrusion and the best part is it's recyclable, I just pull it out of any old jigs that are getting scrapped and throw it on the shelf- you get four bolting surfaces out of it which makes it great for jigs that have right angles in them- just castellate the two halves so they intersect and bolt them to the track so the track is in the opposite side of the X from your work.

T-track is insanely expensive to get here in Australia.. literally no-one sells it on the shelf, so it has to come from Amazon. Mad expensive. So, when adding clamp tracks to my table sled, I used 2 strips of 12x3mm aluminium flat bar. Drilled a bunch of counter sunk holes every 80mm. Then routed a 10mm rebate into the 18mm thick sled base for the head of an M6 bolt (ground the sides of the head to form a 'T'), and a shallow 3.2mm rebate for the strips either side. Screwed them down using the bolt as a spacer, and voila! The groove for the head of the bolt is not as wide as the head, so as its tightened, the bolt rotates abouth an ⅛ of a turn, the 'wings' of the head touch the sides, and it doesn't spin. It works, and since the 12mm bar is about 15 bucks for a 3mt (10 foot) long piece, I'm happy

@dawsie

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for that idea, I’m in the Queensland Outback so shipping is way to costly for the T tracks, I have a heap of flat steel kicking around all the time, why I never thought of that idea is crazy as I’m always looking outside of the box when it comes to the workshop tools and stuff😹😹

@PJRayment

2 ай бұрын

"literally no-one sells it on the shelf,..." Timbecon and Carbatec have some, so that's at least eight stores in the country!

@TheOneWhoMightBe

26 күн бұрын

@@PJRayment Cheaper from Timbecon, although freight is an issue. Woodworking Supplies QLD have longer lengths, although again, shipping.

@PJRayment

26 күн бұрын

@@TheOneWhoMightBe Yes, I was responding to the claim that it's not available in Australian shops. I wasn't commenting about the price.

@ShastaOrange

10 күн бұрын

Wow, you weren't kidding about the prices. I checked Amazon Australia and America, and it's still fully 2x the cost in Australia after currency conversion!

With an edge guide, you can route directly into jigs too. Drill press table, cross cut sled, etc. Anything with a 3/4" plywood top. And if it ever goes bad, just hog it out with a 3/4" groove and put that T-track in.

I have a bunch of 3/4" thick maple that was given to me. I rip cut it 3/8" and then made 2 passes on my table saw slightly off center, about 1/4" deep, flipped it over and cut again. The slot is almost 1/4" wide. I then used a T slot router bit designed just for this purpose and made a cut so it only takes a small amount of wood out instead of having to do all the work, risking burning the wood or stressing the router. I now have nearly 20' of wooden T track ready for my next fixture.

Thanks, James. I’ve been using this bit for years to make T tracks in pine, and it’s never failed.

If you don't want to use routers at ALL, you can cut the wide groove in a piece of wood, glue a 3/16" thick piece of hardwood over the groove, then cut the narrower groove. Both cuts on the table saw using multiple cuts or dado stacks.

@WilliamWallace14051

2 ай бұрын

You could do this with aluminum strips attached to either edge with flat head screws of you need a bit more durability.

Hardwood is so expensive that I'm not sure how cheaper this is versus t-track purchased online.

@dangkolache

2 ай бұрын

I mean a 1"x2"x6' long strip of oak (1 board foot) would be 5-6 bucks (at least for me here in central TX)

@Tony_Chalmers

2 ай бұрын

@@dangkolache A 1x2x8' strip of oak costs me $20 up here in western canada. And it's still the cheapest hardwood.

@IcecalGamer

2 ай бұрын

Had the same thought, but i'm not IN the know. But even if they are the same price, or wood a bit less expensive per m/ft; wouldn't the buck and weight make Hard-Wood way more expensive due to shipping?

@Zzrdemon6633

2 ай бұрын

64$ for 16ft of aluminum t channel on amazon in ontario, i'll buy it before I make it out of hardwood that costs just as much

@dangkolache

2 ай бұрын

@@Tony_Chalmers how much is 8' of t-track?

Great job James, great information too. Really enjoyed the demonstration. Stay safe, Fred.

Thanks for the info, I was preparing to do just this and you have provided measurements saving me experiment time.

My boy blue, always bringing the goods. I got 2 of em embedded in the top of my workbench and one on a tenon cutting jig I made for my table saw. Never seen it done only copied off one the EXPENSIVE metal ones I seen in a magazine!

As mentioned by some others already, you can make your own aluminum t-track. Get lengths of rectagular profile tubular aluminum and rout out the gap with a carbide bit. I found some thick walled rectangular profile aluminum tubing that was 20mm wide with a 14mm wide hole. I routed out the centre gap with a 6mm wide carbide straight bit. You should be able to get the aluminum rectagular tubing from a big box store. Should be significantly cheaper than buying the equivalent lengths of t-track.😀

@mytuberforyou

2 ай бұрын

No need to rout out the center part, you can slam it right through the old table saw. 6061 up to abpout 1/4" can cut just fine with a table saw and virtually any carbide toothed blade, it's surprisingly unpicky about things like rake angle.

Thanks for the tip, James.

T slot bits are great for making keyhole slots, which are a great way to hang shelves with no fasteners showing.

Thanks for all the tips, James! 😊 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

I’m in west Michigan, been watching your channel for a long time. I’ve learned a great deal of information. Thank you.

Amazing information Great job looking forward to part 4

Thanks James for continuing to add to our knowledge build. I’m willing to give this a try, providing i can find a cheap(-er) 3/4 or 4/4 board. My supplier occasionally has these laying around from orders that weren’t picked up, or those too blemished for use the intended job. It might not look pretty, by if it works, it works. Also seems like a way to put off cuts to good use.

I remember using leftover laminate covered particle board and toilet bolts about 30 years ago and that worked well.

I love this channel and the videos, even the ones I don't need at the moment. You never know what future holds. I have to ask a question on this one though. Is it common to need "miles of T track"? Perhaps a follow up video called "a dozen ways to use T-track" is in order.

Great idea Thanks for sharing.

Terrific know how video James! I will have to try this myself! Thanks 👍👍

This is a great idea! I've used these slot bits to make slat wall using 4x8 MDF(when it was cheaper) which I prefer to a bulky French cleat wall.

Thanks for this idea!

I haven't yet used t track, but it loomks to be very useful and this tip could save real money. A great use for a router table. Thanks!

Excellent, especially since I have more scrap than time when in the middle of a project I need a hold down.

Great idea, thanks.

Love your videos, so good and informative

I just checked on Amazon, in Canada I can get 4 48” lengths of anodized aluminum T track for $64.95 with free shipping.

Awesome! Thanks!

This is a fine idea. Many of us will have plenty of pieces of hardwood acquired a long time ago, which makes it viable.

I like MicroJig’s dovetail setup. Fast, easy to cut, secure and extremely versatile !

Now that’s a good idea. Thanks.

not just for hardwood, also works great in melamine ply :)

Good point on the cost of t-track, it’s absurd, especially considering how many sizes there are. I could see making some hardwood t-slot certain circumstances. But the strength issue is one of the arguments for Matchfit… I’ve been using that system for shop jigs for years and been wildly satisfied. And because the dovetail channel carries uplift pressure against the long angled shoulder, it’s so much stronger than a t-slot shoulder that I’ve done a ton of them in plywood that are still in service after many years. That 3/16” t-slot shoulder would rip right out of ply under any clamping uplift, so Matchfit lets me haul out a router and make a jig in minutes. For that softer, laminated stock I usually don’t even need to precut a groove (though sometimes I should and don’t 😃)

Woodpeckers makes a one pass T-track bit, I highly recommend it. It even chamfers the top surface. They have one for standard T-Track, and they also have one that fits track saw guide rail clamps, so you don't need to go buy a bunch of matchfit clamps that don't work with your tracks.

I've made T-track by laminating different thicknesses of baltic birch. Works pretty good.

TEMU I got a bunch of 18" alum tracks for $2.50 each.

Great idea!

Thanks as always. Very interesting subject. Here in the UK I paid £14.25 about $19 for a single two foot length of the small T track from Axminster tools not including postage. It’s so I can build a router table. I will be giving the T slot bit a go. Cheers from John with the shaky hands from County Durham, England.

I've always just used southern yellow pine (or the odd scrap of PT, which is made from that species), a harder pine but cheaper than hardwoods, and never had a problem with the edges breaking off. Of course, any fixture I've made to go with it has been fully seated across the gap, not up on standoffs, so the only pressure when tightening is transferred from the bolt head, through the edges, and into the base of the fixture, no flexing of the edges involved. Also, before I got the right router bits, I used to 'construct' the T-slot by gluing several pieces together, i.e., the bottom, the two sides (which could be from softer material), and the 2-piece top layer for the enclosing edges. As long as I didn't abuse it with poorly-designed fixtures or over-torquing, it worked just fine. I never made a lot of them, or put much 'mileage' on them, as it's just a hobby for me, not a business (maybe someday). But they lasted for years, through a lot of tightening and loosening, until I replaced or otherwise got rid of whatever work surface or shop furniture I had installed them. Never have ended up buying the extruded aluminum stuff (so far), or used any hardwood making them.

@keithmarlowe5569

2 ай бұрын

I bought 2 pieces of aluminum and set of different knobs and hold downs. I made a joining jig I used once. That "once" consisted of several days truing up pipe banding boards, gathered from plumbing supply houses, to build a bench top. I bought a jointer after that, which I haven't used yet. "It's a trap" refers to easy, cool looking, how to KZread videos.

@louisvictor3473

2 ай бұрын

Imo the glue up method is even more durable, and trashy cheap soft woods will do okay too (will still suck being easily dented, but not always a concern). Modern glue > lignin strength, so that is a plus. And if you get savy a steal a page from ply wood, you can make it so that the grain of the bottom and top layers are 90ish degrees to length of the slot, making the lips really hard to break (either break the glue or the short fibers in half, instead of tearing the lignin), the whole thing more dimensionally stable, and it is also hard to fracture the bottom along the length of it.

@Lugnut64052

2 ай бұрын

Yep. I've done the same thing with different thicknesses of baltic birch plywood. Works fine.

Definitely worth looking into in my opinion, even from a business perspective. You probably are already going to mill a slot in a piece of wood anyway to fit the track. What might be worth considering is wear, not only of the track, but also the tools. I'd go with aluminium for the maintenance and wear on the parts, brass if you are made of money and into the high end stuff that looks fancy. For my RAS fence I simply screwed track on the backside with some flip stops, no need to cut slots etc and very time saving. Just do what you prefer and seems the most cost effective way for your situation.

Very interesting.

I bought some cheap bits about 5 years ago on ali-baba and they do this exact thing. For simple, slap together jigs that I don't intend to make "show pieces" like a lot of guys do, I love those bits so much cheaper, and the same end result.

thanks

I tried wood tracks. Blew them all out eventually. The metal tracks are WAY stronger.

Any Stumpy Nubs video is a good video. 👍 Always enjoy your content and appreciate you sharing!

I do pretty much the same as eggsngritstn (below) who glues 3/16" thick hardwood over at routed or table sawed groove for the base of the t-post. The difference is that I use 6m birch ply that has never failed. I cut it straight and put a spacer in the slot when I glue it down. Works great.

I started "bush carpentry" at age 12, back in the late 60s. My life took me in other directions for the next 40 or so years, and now I'm slowly teaching myself finer woodworking along with metalworking and electronics (which is where those "other directions" went) and so I'll opt to buy cheap Chinese T-track rather than risk my ignorance of wood hardness scales . . . 😸

A very informative piece and a potential money saver to boot, 😊. Like deployed 👍

I recently purchased the Cubitron sanding disks from Taylor Tools and was impressed. My only complaint is that the hook material wore out before the sandpaper. The hook pad on my sander is relatively new. Hopefully this was a fluke

I like the MicroJig setup, but this is good advice all around, and slots are easier to find hardware for. As another commenter suggested, cut your channels right into your jigs/ fixtures (when feasible) and materials cost goes to zero. Nice one.

@MarkLasbyCNC

2 ай бұрын

I have made Microjig "T tracks" using hard maple and by routing the dovetail grooves into birch plywood. The birch plywood option is just as strong as the hard maple and a lot less work.

DIY or 'store-bought', both come with their own set of requirements, pro's & cons costs and work required. Use the option that matches your situation best.

I kinda like the "WoodAnchor" fixturing system, by Toolquest (a small American company!). You need their proprietary bit (manufactured by Whiteside) and some proprietary nuts, but the rest is standard 1/4-20 hardware.

i've got some on my list at the jungle site, i'm gonna use em for the table on the cnc machine i'm building, starting with the table from an old 3018pro. 4x300mm pieces, for future i'll just build em from pieces of alum bar, they'd be cheaper, but cheap non-brand tracks are competitive for some lengths.

This seems like a good match for a composite like high density fiberboard (the only form I can get is 1/8inch "Hardboard") or whatever else you can get in the correct size for a track.

Can you recommend any hold-down clamps to go with this? I have some hold-down clamps where there's a good bit of distance between the place where the force is applied to the board and where the force is applied to the track, which is somewhat problematic even with aluminum t-tracks.

This is a great alternative! I’m going to use this on my CNC next time I change the spoilboard. I’d rather hit a piece of hardwood with my bit than an aluminum channel. Even though aluminum is soft, no metal chips will be introduced.

Cubetron OK has been the mainstay of knife maker for several years now. 3M claims it fractures and self sharpens under load.

Well, damn. Look at that. As usual, wonderful, useful stuff. Thank you.

Fun fact…… go to metal supermarkets (Canada) and use aluminum. The bits will cut the same as hardwood and you’ll end up with Aluminum “T-Track” for less.

Matchfit all the way!!!

About 6 or so weeks ago, Talor Tools was selling the Cubitron sanding sheets that came as a roll in a box for use on palm sanders. I bought one box of each grit. Their ad was worded as though there was an attachment for the sanders that would allow the sheets to work. That ended up not being the case. These sanding sheets were also perforated to the exact size of the palm sanders' pad, so the spring clips could not be used. I scoured the internet trying to find pads or attachments that would work but could not. I may have not keyed in the correct language so something would pop up, but I tried a few different wordings and had no luck. After a few emails to customer service, which usually took 2 or 3 days waiting for them to reply, they admitted the ad's wording was wrong, and they couldn't help me find a way for the sheets to work. Anyway, they sent me a call tag to ship the boxes back to them. I was disappointed.

Great

Thanks! If one has handheld routers, straight and t-slot bits already, as I do, this routed-in option is far cheaper and more versatile; for example, if you need a four-way t-track intersection for workbench, tool-tops, etc.; Aluminum 4-way’s would be far more expensive than this option.

You can also run a hand router using a fence. I may be biased. But i have 4x8 tables and its more trouble to route a large oversized slot to drop in a secondary milled piece. Aluminum is much stronger and a lot less work. Amazon usually has returns for cheap. A prepared individual builds cheaper.

@dashcammer4322

2 ай бұрын

Smart. Cost-benefit. You must not like to burn a hell of a lot of time to save not very much money.

@2chipped

2 ай бұрын

@@dashcammer4322 16 ft for $35

I bought some of that sand papper sure it works good and could last good but it doesn't stay stuck on the velcrow very good so more waste

At what price should one dispense with the hardwood milling and buy aluminum track? There’s a set of four 48- inch pieces on Amazon for $34. Is two bucks and a few pennies a foot still too expensive?

Is 3/4 plywood strong enough for t slots in a sled or jigs?

I cut the starter groove on the table saw ... no need to swap router bits.

Grain orientation is very important; don't want your pieces to split when you tighten hardware. Instead of using a straight bit, I use a stacked dado set in my table saw because it is much faster and I don't have to change the set-up on my router table.

Hardwood is expensive but pallets are often hardwood and “free”. So I use pallet wood that is not sprayed with any nasty chemicals.

@nagranoth_

2 ай бұрын

I have never seen a hardwood pallet.... Maybe it's different in the US, but in the EU it's always softwood and low quality at that....

@morrismurray3621

2 ай бұрын

@@nagranoth_ I am an Aussie, not a yank. When we see pallets from EU they are low quality pine, but many others are reasonable hardwoods- usually the older pallets. I am picky so I pick up the hardwood ones.

I use dado stack for the first cut.

I use strut in stead.

Welp... now I know what to do with that hop hornbeam wood (aka iron wood) that I've been squirrelling away for years!

My grandfather’s home made table saw had guide strips made of lignum vitae. I don’t think you can get that anymore. I wish I knew where that saw went.

Cool

Is there a bit that makes it one and done?

Is there benefit to soaking the upper lips in CA glue? I'll be making a gaming table and will be making the accessory rails out of wood.

grain orientation?

If you can get some wax down into that track, will help anything slide easier within.

How about just making a wide, shallow dado/groove the thickness of some aluminium flatbar and the width of twice said flatbar plus clearance for the hardware you use and then a deeper slot down the middle of the first one and screw the flatbar on either side? Aluminium flatbar is about the equivalent of $5 a yard where I live.

@beardoe6874

2 ай бұрын

I would rather start with aluminum rectangular tube, drill it so you can install fasteners, then use a carbide tipped router bit or carbide tipped circular saw to cut out the top slot.

If the hardwood T-track is perfectly flush with the table or jig surface, there is no upward force on the T-track. You're only clamping against the upper portion just as if squeezing it with pliers. That greatly reduces the chance of breaking one. If the top of the T-track is below flush, there will be an upward bending force applied that can break the top out.

@StumpyNubs

2 ай бұрын

Not all clamps and attachments in all situations apply pressure directly down on the t-track.

@David-hm9ic

2 ай бұрын

@@StumpyNubsGood point! Thanks.

Route a T shaped groove and screw two sections of cheap aluminium flat extrusion into the horizontal part of the T , leaving a gap between them. This creates a T slot that is flush with the surface and is superior to the T section extrusion and is stronger and more durable than a purely wooden T slot in hardwood.

Wood is so expensive here that I can just as well buy the metal T-tracks.

Since this adds a lot of stress between grain fibers rather than along, any suggestions on which hardwood species are better than others?

@StumpyNubs

2 ай бұрын

For woodworking jigs, pretty much anything works fine. For maximum strength, strait-grain is better.

Thank you. Would really appreciate it if you could add metric measurements aswell.

@DB-thats-me

2 ай бұрын

Buy in metric and rout to fit. 👍

Great video as usual...Make those tracks out of Osage Orange and I'd be willing to bet they will last a very long time.

Norton's Blaze line...I'll put that up against 3M anyday

The cost of hardwood in Spain is ridiculous. T Track stays in the armoury.

Warping over time?

This is great information for every woodworker to know. Mr. Nubs is the best at that. I only have 6-7 years experience in woodworking so I'm not expert, but the MatchFit system is what I've switched to. I made my first cross-cut sled with aluminum t-track. Since then, I tried the MatchFit system and it's just so much easier to implement. In many ways, you get a tool that has multiple uses and that's huge for a small shop. I would venture to say that all these things, aluminum t-track, homemade t-track and the MatchFit system, all have their place. One isn't so much as better than the other, it really comes down to preference and application. Maybe Mr. Nubs has started a whole new "pockethole" debate.

How does the 3M sand paper compare to the Dura Grit Carbide Sanding Disc?

@StumpyNubs

2 ай бұрын

Two different things. The Duragrit discs are coarse for shaping and leveling. The Cubitron discs are for regular and fine sanding.