I’ll never understand why movies do this, because most of the time actual history is better then the movie versions.

@okdude8215

Жыл бұрын

Thats why they do it.

@jamestown8398

Жыл бұрын

A lot of directors and show runners are egotistical. Thus, when they’re tasked with adapting something created by someone else (a preexisting work or history), they feel compelled to change things to make a name for themselves.

@Hesher93

Жыл бұрын

You can see that with Rings of Powers, the Authors THINK they can make a better story then Tolkien himself and fail utterly, same with people making movies based on history, they somehow think they can make it better and fail

@lemmypop1300

Жыл бұрын

@@Hesher93 I have a sneaky suspicion that because Tolkien's work is due to become public domain in the following decades they tried to make distinct characters and storylines that can be copyrighted as Amazon's property. So, in the future, they can milk their own characters and stories into reboots and spin-offs, make merchandise etc. without the fear of someone making something almost identical at the same time thus lessening their profit. I mean, how many versions of the Three Musketeers were there over the years? The only problem was they had no skill to pull it off and their product was dead on arrival.

@sgtpepper91

Жыл бұрын

Because some narcissistic, emotionally stunted fat cat in a suit thinks it'll make more money this way.

They could have made an excellent story about the political interactions between germanic tribes and the romans.

@lukaskaelin6249

Жыл бұрын

Nah that would be too boring and difficult to understand for normal people.

@peterfmodel

Жыл бұрын

This is a shame. The events after Teutoburg were very interesting, irrespective of who you wish to make the good or bad guys.

@Taffer-bx7uc

Жыл бұрын

Done in all ancient Latin and German.

@Levineclifton82

Жыл бұрын

It's was SUPERB....ABSOLUTELY SUPERB.......IM GUTTED that this is the situation......SORT IT OUT AS THE WORLD WANTS THIS U CAN COME BACK & MAKE UP

@killer3000ad

Жыл бұрын

But then how would they have inserted their strong black female Carthagian woman into the story?

This is why I dont watch many shows on Netflix/Amazon Prime anymore. Its all about changing the script or changing history, and I had enough of it

@SvendleBerries

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, they seem obsessed with telling "their truth", which ends up being not true at all. And more than that, what they write is a mockery of history that wants to be taken seriously, which is just insulting to the audience, as well as to people who actually care about history.

@ringofasho7721

Жыл бұрын

The Witcher and Rings of Power shows are guilty too (I know, it's not changing history in fantasy, but the authors of the lore)

@Laotzu.Goldbug

Жыл бұрын

Ultimately, even worse than historical inaccuracies or blatant laziness is the fact that Netflix simply pumps out schlock

@timh.7169

Жыл бұрын

@@ringofasho7721 I 100% agree. They killed these incredibley good franchies

@jmgonzales7701

Жыл бұрын

what is the alternative?

Congratulations on having the guts to quit! Too often history advisors are just placed on the set as decoration so that their name can be listed in the credits.

@dallassegno

Жыл бұрын

even more guys to post this on KZread

@derricktalbot8846

Жыл бұрын

If a production is going to have an historical advisor....get them in the writing room first. Actors can always do their thing if they put enough effort into it... but not even having both Nick Cage's will help a production if the story is just bonkers! and... just to be TOTALLY FAIR! I think it is best I give an argument for both sides of this story.... How many historians would it take, having presented the severed heads of those responsible for ruining our general understanding of history by their 'vision' of events, for Hollywood to finally agree to our Culture's demand for well written stories?

@chstens

Жыл бұрын

@@derricktalbot8846 Here's why this doesn't happen much, writers like to write without anyone telling them how, and they're already dealing with producers, directors, input from cast members etc. etc. Unless someone higher up really cares about historical accuracy, historical advisors usually serve as inspiration at best, especially for vain, narcissistic Hollywood types

@misanthropicservitorofmars2116

Жыл бұрын

@@chstenswhy is Alexander the most historically accurate depiction of ancient warfare :( Spent so much money on drama when that one battle makes the whole movie..

@udozocklein6023

Жыл бұрын

gotta pay your bills though...... but yes, im glad they quit in this case. they are clearly overqualified to be ignored.

A series about historians written by barbarians? That sounds interesting.

@KaptorgaVisualHistory

Жыл бұрын

Sort of does, but also not. :D

@Thanadeez

Жыл бұрын

Ugbuk like write cave painting on paper or weird glass thing, Ugbuk like arguing with people on the internet, Ugbuk obsessed with grandfather

@Zazinikki

Жыл бұрын

@@Thanadeez Ukbug is from shadow of war

@Thanadeez

Жыл бұрын

@@Zazinikki Dont expose me like that

@udozocklein6023

Жыл бұрын

@@Thanadeez right? i thought you are hella creative until i read the next comment lol

I once had a chat with Robert Woosnam-Savage who is one of the curators at the Royal Armouries in Leeds. He's worked as an historical adviser on several productions, notably Rob Roy in the 1990s and he told me how it usually goes down. Basically the director would phone him up asking him if they could do x thing or show y object and Robert would say no its not really very historically accurate, you should try this instead. The director would say that was a good idea and then completely ignore the advice and just do whatever they were going to do in the first place!

@peterclarke7240

Жыл бұрын

That's the thing, though. Historical advisors are just that: advisors. They have no power other than the power of persuasion. I sadly tend not to trust any show past it's first season if it makes claims at being "historically accurate," because that is a VERY broad and completely unenforceable claim, and is always the first thing to get punted into the midden as soon as a show starts getting popular.

@udozocklein6023

Жыл бұрын

@@peterclarke7240 as soon as the shows get rolling, they have dollar signs in their eyes^^ the wide mass will prefer action or drama over actual facts. sad story. edit:typo

@damionkeeling3103

Жыл бұрын

@@udozocklein6023 There was enough action and drama back then to have realistic plots. The problem is that the programme creators view early history as similar to fantasy and think they're free to make stuff up as it's easier than working with historians and archaeologists.

@udozocklein6023

Жыл бұрын

​@@damionkeeling3103 no worry, i know. learning about history is a lot better than watching game of thrones :D

i watched the invicta docuseries about germanicus and i thought barbarian 2 would deliver especially the part where Arminius and the brother had a dissbattle with a river between but no , seriously what did they smoke in the second season? the crime they did against germanicus Character is ridiculous

@KaptorgaVisualHistory

Жыл бұрын

Yes, we know the brother of Arminius only from this historical source regarding to the dispute he had with Arminius on the bridge. Leaving this scene completely out of the plot was one of the things which is unacceptable here. And true, portraying Germanicus as a cheap sidekick is also unacceptable.

@laisphinto6372

Жыл бұрын

@@KaptorgaVisualHistory how do you rate the avenging varus series from invicta?

@edoart3722

Жыл бұрын

@@KaptorgaVisualHistory well...Barbarian I had the same problem of Barbarian II, totally inaccurate and sucks in all possible ways...

@kurkkamambusu4063

Жыл бұрын

Nah Barbarian I was ok in my book. You dont need to be accurate if you can tell the essence of the story. Often it is even better not to be that accurate, to reach the viewers. They had it in season 1, but lost it in season 2.

@kurkkamambusu4063

Жыл бұрын

For example the father/son Story with varus and ari, is at least speculation. But it made it possible to elaborate his inner conflict.

Arminius being killed by his own kin because he started to overstep would have been a great dramatic story line. Game of Thrones showed that people actually like stories where people are gray and they have actual, understandable reasons behind what they are doing. (Until of course they got disconnected from the brain).

Also, I don't think that putting some more details into the narrative doesn't have to be "boring" or too complicated. Just take a look at the complexity of long running TV shows, from Game of Thrones to Avatar. The question is: How do you tell the story in an interesting way?

@ne0nmancer

Жыл бұрын

It's the details that keep people talking about any piece of media for years to come. Series like this come out with a bang and are forgotten just as fast, while people still talk about HBO's Rome.

I would much rather have a completely made up story, but with a realistic atmosphere (set design, costume design, behavior, etc) than something that butchers a historical event to the point its barely recognizable

The truth is that regular people learn from movies and dont fact check themselves. Most people put it in the back of their mind and thats where it remains forever. Movies have a duty to be as accurate as possible OR not use historical names. They can just use fictional names and places. im tired of propaganda films using historical names. You just cant do that if you want a "good guys" vs "bad guys" story, history is more complicated. It just ends up being racist.

@lordulberthellblaze6509

Жыл бұрын

You overestimate most people's ability to think in nuance with regards to affairs outside of their immediate family and workplace. The context is unrelated but sir Humphrey Appleby in Yes Prime Minister sums it up well with this line. "Of course not facts complicate things, all the press, the people and their elected representatives want to know is who are the goodies and who are the baddies". m.kzread.info/dash/bejne/iIOY0KuMp6_Rg9Y.html

@MalikMalikin-lb6tk

8 ай бұрын

That is the sad truth. People really underestimate the power of popular media.

@sudafedup

8 ай бұрын

300 had a duty to be historically accurate?

@gnomeimporta6912

5 ай бұрын

@@sudafedup Sure, why not. It would have been better anyway. Less funny and memeable, though.

@sudafedup

5 ай бұрын

@@gnomeimporta6912 Better, yes. That movie was awful. But I'm more of a freedom of expression kind of guy when it comes to films and entertainment. I just wish that if a film is claiming to be historical, it should say it while making the effort to be historical. 300 never claimed to be historically accurate, it was based on a graphic novel, which is fine.

This was amazing, I saw the trailer for season 2 and immediately knew in my head this was going to be completely different from season 1 and I wouldn’t like it…now I know why

In an Forrest far far away , a small ragtag group of rebels fight a mighty empire...

@damionkeeling3103

Жыл бұрын

Cuts to scene of furry creatures with primitive weapons ambushing Imperial troops then close ups reveal the furry creatures to be beserkers with wolf and bear pelts.

Lalo Salamanca as Germanicus looking for the lost Legion Eagles, while killing everyone in his way, would have been a great story.

@EmisoraRadioPatio

Жыл бұрын

He even looks like a Roman if you took away the mustache

I find your reasons for quitting quite professional and honorable. Cheers to dignity and integrity

I miss HBO's Rome for all its political scheming. It was a show ahead of its time.

@soldatheero

4 ай бұрын

I miss it so much, it inspired me to become very interested in the history of Rome in general. I still watch ROME from time to time just to be in that world for a bit

All the best stories in the world have already been written. It's called history. The fact that people haven't realized that there's a massive audience for accurate, or at least not insultingly bad, historical entertainment will always astound me.

Oh wow, with a literal mic drop. I have to say, I've been following you guys for a long while now and it's clear that you have your hearts in the right places. Right now I'm working on my own TV series project that delves into the history of the Germanic tribes, BLACK FOREST WITCH. I know, some things are not accurate, but I really try to make it a meaningful story that makes sense.

@epstone

Жыл бұрын

Haha ich habe soeben einige Kommentare unter einem Geschichtsfenstervideo gelesen und als ich diesen Kommentar hier soeben las, dachte ich mir schon "kommt mir bekannt vor".

@ergocinema

Жыл бұрын

@@epstone 🤗

Great video, as usual. Glad you decided to make it in english - specially since the topic in general - is an international one. It seems to me, that the issues you had and described with "Barbaren" is currently a pretty general issue with most, if not all, historical (or history related) media productions. A very sad and concerning trend. You guys deserve alot of respect and praise for staying true to your ideals by stepping down as historical advisors for such a show, even tho you probably lose a good source of income. Keep up the good work and hopefully some more english videos in the future (even tho im german speaking myself)

I know Norsemen is a comedy and not going for accuracy, but I really enjoy the vibe and look they achieved with it. It gives a better idea of what a typical tribe might look and act like than Vikings in my opinion. Barbarians had a similar vibe of a bunch of farmers doing politics in the first few episodes which got me excited, but then season 2 happened :(

@noctisocculta4820

Жыл бұрын

Dude, I know right? Weird how a low budget comedy is one of the most historically accurate pre-renaissance shows ever created by the western world.

@damionkeeling3103

Жыл бұрын

They felt they'd hooked enough people with the first season to push wokeism with the second. Telling a story became secondary to the various agendas.

It’s clear the writers were trying to frame this as some sort of anti-colonial piece. I was so surprised that they didn’t implement the actual story of Arminius it’s a relatively compact story that could easily be told in a show within a reasonable number so seasons without becoming too complex or radical for a TV audience. It’s been done before with the show Spartacus. For all of the visual flaws and trashy aspects of that show the actual story of Spartacus in the later seasons was told with some accuracy. Also as a side note everyone seems to forget that the tribes in Barbarians mostly ended up being later displaced into France and were more the building blocks of the modern French state.

History is in no way boring, you can easily make a show very entertaining based on history

@meilinchan7314

Жыл бұрын

I don't know.....a series on the Ptolemies or Sophonisba might be rather......risque. No, seriously.

@shaggjones4854

Жыл бұрын

@@meilinchan7314 HBO does that risque all the time lol

I am very proud of you guys for quitting. It takes a lot of courage to turn down a good paycheck for holding up quality standards. It has always been telling for me when historical advisors or lore experts quit on a production. This should be a major red flag to studios they are going to lose the audience and therefore lose money.

Netflix: Our show is historically incorrect because we're trying to correct the wrongs of German nationalism. Also Netflix: We're making a historically inaccurate show that praises German nationalism...

Wow, I'm so pleased to have run across this channel - after my own heart! It's amazing how many delicious historical stories are out there, but the studios continue to try to rehash things that have sort of worked before. Surely a visit to the library or even a bookshop could rectify this!

"Dates back to the most *ANCIENT* of times!" That delivery on that line was perfect

For university I had to write a term paper about the relations of Romans and Germanic people in the area of the Limes and I went a bit beyond that and looked at the instrumentalization of the Battle of Teutoburg forest. It was fascinating to see how the here mentioned nationalist propaganda used this battle (hell, it's even used in the unofficial hymn of Lower Saxony, where I live) but also how parodies already existed back then. Heinrich Heine with his "Wintermärchen" as well as Joseph Victor Scheffel with his song "Als die Römer frech geworden" were looking at this battle and its reception with an interesting sarcastiv view. It is unfortunate that this one dimensional view on the Roman-Germanic relations is still reproduced today and it's even more unfortunate because I found the first season realtively intriguing although Ancient History is not my main field of study.

@damionkeeling3103

Жыл бұрын

The first season was reasonable up to the actual titular battle which was appallingly bad.

the most disappointing part about this is that they were positioned so well to really explore one of the most interesting periods of history: Late Augustan, but they decided to not do that because *checks notes* reasons

02:18 that was the most energetic "Everything!" I ever heard, going to start using it from now on, great video! First one I've watched from you guys, I took a look at your channel, I think I'll stick around! Also since my moto is to give credit when credit is due, I would like to thank KZread for recomending you guys for me, came from the Metatron and I saw a recomendation on my homepage.

Und ich hatte mich schon immer gefragt, warum die Römer so akkurat aussehen in Staffel 1 :). Ja so ist das leider. Das fängt bei der Adaption von wirklich guten Stoffen/Werken an, siehe witcher, halo sowie HDR und endet in einer kompletten Verfälschung der realen Geschichte und wissenschaftlicher Fakten. Nur weil ein Showrunner oder eine Drehbuchautorin meint, ja was eigentlich? Ich habe die besser Version?

@MortusVanDerHell

Жыл бұрын

Exakt. Sie glauben offenbar wirklich, dass sie da was besser machen könnten als die Vorlage. Hier war es eine historisch "korrektere" Variante als die Historie, bei Rings of Power eine Story, die "besser" und "moderner" war als das Original aus der Feder des seinerzeit vielleicht größten Linguisten, Historikers und Begründers eines ganzen Genres der Literatur. Hollywood hat meines Erachtens nach seinen Höhepunkt gehabt und ist nun von der zivilisatorisch-kulturellen Größe direkt übergegangen zur Dekadenz. -.-

I think you've made a first and big step here. I too, like many of your supporters online, are tired of witnessing historical accuracy being swept aside for the sake of poor decisions on entertainment value. I will continue to support your values and position however I can, until we see better, amazing and historically accurate shows!

Imagine how cool it would be if they depicted the revenge invasion the romans historically sent. They could have cool badass battles where the germans actualy fought cleverly and well against a supperior fighting force. But you can have the romans interacting with the locals as they set up camp in different places, and you can introduce a new villain. The main villain will be the historical germanicus who lead the invasions. He would start off being hateful, but as he sees and experiences these interactions with the locals, you can have him having letter comunication with arminius where arminius tries to get him to leave the tribes alone. In the finale something happens and germanicus sees past his hateful world view and comes to understand that conquest isn't good, not even for revenge or to civilize people. He decides that it's enough, and returns home, something arminius lets happen in peace. Germanicus then goes on about writing a letter to the emperor basically saying there is no point in conquering the place, but that he got revenge for rome. He concinces the emperor to leave germania alone. This keeps in general line with historical events although makes the story more driven by it's main cast. It would mean something and actually go against the narratives of the extreme nationalists. The ending would be a bit bitter-sweet as the suffering the germans went through still occured, but in the end everyone can be hopeful that peace has prevailed. The historical events that would have changed are as follows: -The roman emperor (Augustus) didn't historically want to conquer germania after the teutaburg battle. -Arminius didn't have any long term diplomatic contact with the romans, and just lost all his battles with them. -Arminius lead his force to try and stop the romans on their way back but failed.

@johndenugent4185

6 ай бұрын

good comment :-)

There should never have been a part II... The story of the varusschlacht was enough. Sadly no one will ever know its connection to the Rheingold legend

@runkelpokk9

Жыл бұрын

The aftermath of the Varusschlacht is really interesting and could be a great series sadly it was ruined

@scelonferdi

Жыл бұрын

@@runkelpokk9 Yeah, Arminius' attempt to permanently establish his confederation and resulting murder actually is a good story.

@riograndedosulball248

Жыл бұрын

Also, the Roman punitive expeditions that left Germania a desert afterwards would be very welcomed on a show

@habu027

Жыл бұрын

Aber leider muss es immer - verlangen die Aktionäre - ein Part II geben.

@TheOriginalFishPond

Жыл бұрын

If its successful, the money people come in and demand more.

I was so looking forward to the second season and its a shame that they ruined it, good on you for standing your ground you have earned a sub from me :)

You know, I had really suspected that history took a backseat in the production of season 2, and this has confirmed my suspicions that historical advisors on the subject were missing. It’s a damn shame, but hopefully another production crew will seek y’all out.

Thanks for standing your ground. If only more people like you, not just historical advisors but also film advisors for scientists, paleontologists, military, medical, and other fields for film, would do the same.

Roman interactions with "barbarians" were always complex and way more interesting than what we get in pop-culture.

@KaptorgaVisualHistory

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely.

Thank you so much for this analysis that's going to the deeper message of entertainment instead of surface details! I had the exact problem with the message of the show in the final episode of season 1. Thank you for sharing your experience, I'll follow your content with interest!

3:32 As a Nordic person with a decades long hobbyist interest in history I feel a bout of anxious depression anytime someone reminds me of _that show_ 😢

I watched Vinland Saga (Anime) which has this nice documentary like edits here and there to explain history of what happened in that time period. The series itself is very over the top, especially the funny fights. At one point a big viking guy throws a spear from 2 or so kilometers and hits like 8 guys. But still a very nice story with amazingly written characters

@TheGreatDanish

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely. A story can be over the top, anime ultraviolent, but still be *accurate* in the areas where it matters.

@viciousyeen6644

Жыл бұрын

Vinland Saga got it right, in connecting accuracy with comedy, action and drama

@noctisocculta4820

Жыл бұрын

Funnily enough, shounen action fits with Norse sagas nicely. A big Viking guy throwing a spear from 2 kilometers and hitting 8 guys sounds like it could have been lifted directly from Arrow-Odd or something.

@admontblanc

11 ай бұрын

@@noctisocculta4820 lets not exaggerate though, it would fit perfectly if it was about the Viking mythology. The period covered in Vinland Saga happens centuries after the fall of Western Rome, by then there was a widespread European tradition of writing down histories with a much less embelished approach.

I study history and in our seminar about Romans in Baden-Württemberg our Professor wanted us to watch the first season of Barbarians. Just to see how the current popular media portraits the Germanic and Roman relationships. She liked the first season and told us to watch the second at our own risk :D

@hi23nutzer21

3 ай бұрын

Nice ich hatte ein Seminar da haben wir mit dem Dozenten über Rom (HBO) gequatscht. Der hat es zu dem Zeitpunkt zum erstenmal it seiner Freundin geschaut. Sein Fach Bereich ist das antike Griechenland und dann haben wir mit dem Dozenten über das Thema Politik und fehlende Personen (oder Personen mit einem anderen Charakter als in den Quellen erwähnt) geredet und dem die Verwandschaft Verhältnisse erwähnt. Das Cato Brutus Onkel war wurde mit keinem Wort erwähnt und KA warum die Servilia und Atia so sehr out of Charakter geschrieben haben. Ich schätze bis heute es lag am Geld😂😂😂

Love your video! Excellent dissection of the producer's mindset.

This is the first I have heard or seen of your channel and from this exposure I am interested in seeing more. I will attempt to check out what English videos you have. In refrence to your question at the end of the video I am grateful foir what english videos you have and would welcome more at this point.

As a backgroung extra and occasional small part actor of the first season, Segimer's swordsman, I'm looking forward to this. I'm truly curious. During first season I noticed many things that were historically inaccurate (especially during the battle scene), but they say s2 is a next level. I still didn't have the time to watch it though. 😌

Ich fand auch schade, dass sie die Geschichte einfach so umgeschrieben haben. Ich verstehe es auch gar nicht, da der Originalstoff mit den Schlachten, die dem Teutoburger Wald folgten, sicherlich interessant genug gewesen wäre, um daraus 5 grandiose Staffeln zu schaffen. Neben dem Verlassen der Geschichtlichkeit fand ich am schlimmsten: + Tiberius und Germanicus als Karikatur-Bösewichte + Römische Rüstungen, die wie Butter durchschnitten werden + Die Erstürmung des Römerlagers war irgendwie Obelix-mässig, aber dabei noch nicht einmal lustig. + Und warum zieht die gesamte Römerflotte aus dem Germanengebiet ab, nur weil ein Lager verloren war? Warum gehen sie nicht an anderer Stelle ans Ufer? + Flavus war einfach nervig. Ok, vielleicht war er es wirklich. Wissen wir natürlich nicht.

Splendid! Thank you, Kaptorga!

Interesting to learn from a seldom heard side of the story. Can’t imagine how frustrating being a historical advisor in any big budget production can be, so to be driven to the point of quitting shows just how bad it really was

KZread Algorithmus hat mich hier hergebracht. Euer Video hat mir sehr gefallen und spiegelt absolut meinen Eindruck der zweiten Staffel wieder. Der Hinterhalt in der ersten Szene ist bereits ein guter Vorgeschmack auf die Peinlichkeiten, die darauf folgen. Netflix Abo steht schwer auf der Kippe, aber das nicht erst seit Barbarians II.

@ethanwasme4307

Жыл бұрын

algorithmus is such a mighty word 😭😭

@EmisoraRadioPatio

Жыл бұрын

ikr until that word I thought he was speaking in Latin

Bin zwar ein großer Kollegah Fan, aber den Diss fand ich gigantisch. 😂😘 Find ich gut, dass ihr das so handhabt. Studiere selber Geschichte und kenne das Gefühl, wenn etwas komplett falsch dargestellt wird.

@nostalji75

Жыл бұрын

Was findest du denn an Kollegah toll? Der prollt doch nur rum, oder? Oder ist das was dir an ihm gefällt? Oder sind es die Reimketten?

@Alvias

Жыл бұрын

Er war sprachlich einfach unglaublich kreativ, oftmals sehr lustig und zumindest zu Anfang eher bei Nerds als bei Gangsta-Rap Fans beliebt. Ich schließe hier von mir und einigen Freunden auf andere, aber viele Leute fanden ihn wirklich gut bis man langsam gemerkt hat, dass er den Scheiß leider doch nicht ironisch meint.

@nostalji75

Жыл бұрын

@@Alvias Danke für die Erklärung ;) Kennst du Prezident? Kann ich sehr empfehlen wenn du auf Hiphop stehst, und dich nach Texten mit Substanz, die über "ich bin der krasseste" hinausgeht sehnst.

@AngelFlores-wr7to

Жыл бұрын

@@nostalji75 Genau, die Reimketten und auch ein wenig die Attitüde (2012-15). Mittlerweile finde ich ihn allerdings sehr befremdlich.

Thanks for the video. I subscribed and look forward to more as my daughter and I prepare for our trip to Germany this May. It includes visiting the German-Roman museum in Köln. Any tips and advice are appreciated. Can’t wait!

Love this so much, thank you for the video. I refuse to watch the new Barbarians 2 for many of the reasons you cite. Looking forward to watching more English content in the future should you choose to make it.

Nobody's gonna talk about that one Punic character bearing the longest grudge in history? The timelines in that historical series have been changed sure but if you were to look at it in another historical perspective, considering Carthage finally fell in 146 B.C. (at the same time Macedon was formally annexed as a Roman province 😑), that's an incredibly f*cking loooooong time to bear a grudge for someone who wasn't there when Carthage fell or that particular someone is just incredibly old as f*ck..

@dariuslateralus7128

Жыл бұрын

I haven't seen any of it first hand but this particular grudge doesn't concern me too much. Some Germans still hate the French for Napoleon. They wouldn't say it that way but that's what it boils down to.

@KaptorgaVisualHistory

Жыл бұрын

The fact that in the show both Dido AND Germanicus himself must have been over 150 years old is shortly adressed in the video, but as we continue right afterwords, it's none of our major concerns with Barbarians II. But yes, that backstory contains a very ironic inaccuracy given the fact that at this point Carthage had already been rebuilt... by the roman empire.

@laisphinto6372

Жыл бұрын

also like parthia is way closer to carthage and probably way more organized than angry germs in mud huts and considering that the Empire goes full germanicus on the germs better not go to the most concentrated area of roman armies

Gut das ihr da noch aussteigen konntet, weil mir auch zu Ohren gekommen ist, dass so große Produktionsfirmen auch mal ihre Angestellten mit Knebelverträgen versklaven. Zum Thema Hilfstruppen in römischen Diensten, finde ich das sogar Spartacus in Season 1 es versucht hatte komplexer zu machen, weil dort Spartacus zu einer solchen Einheit gehört hatte und am Ende jedoch von den dekadenten überheblichen Römern verarscht wurde. Sicher das ist auch in gewisser Weise ein Klischee, aber trotzdem besser dargestellt als ich in diesem Netflixunsinn. Also ist sogar Spartacus mit seinen Klischees akkurater als die Urukgermanhaiis. Kann man sich auch nicht ausdenken.

@carlosdumbratzen6332

Жыл бұрын

Wenn sie über Staffel 1 reden, zb in den Podcasts, merkst du schon ab und zu, dass es NDAs gab/gibt.

Awesome video, guys. You make an excellent point about making something less historical accurate, as long as you can tell a good story, and make people interested in history as well. It is shameful that the writers underrestimate the viewers so much, that they think we want bad fantasy. Also, if anyone is interested, you should check out the channel Invicta. They made a series called Avenging Varus, and it shows the aftermath and how the Romans reacted to losing those legions.

VERY GOOD Commentary My Brother And Thank You And your Comrades for Standing Up to this MADNESS, It SICKENS Me to No End Every Time I See this Mess!

Thank you for season 1, when I first saw Metellus ride into the village and inform them in Latin that Rome demanded tribute, It felt like I saw a real Centurion just do that. It was brilliant, I use screenshots from it as a reference when I draw Centurions and Arminius in the Cavalry mask again was brilliant. I thought season 2 would interesting , how would they show Germanicus get revenge when the "Barbarians" were the "good guys". I didn't expect they would use potion and Roman Legions from Asterix and Oberlix. To not be involved in season 2 shows a great respect to history which is why season 1 looked so good, Thanks again and good luck

I feel this is the natural tendency of Netflix. They fund some overseas venture, it does well, then some Hollywood suit goes "Oh, this thing was POPULAR? LET'S RUIN IT!!!" And then it slams into the ground. Literally nothing is done for art, or historical accuracy, anymore.

@000jimbojones000

Жыл бұрын

they just kinda forced them to write and film a quick season 2 (that was never planed btw) Because people liked the first one. Same will happen to squid game because they also had no plans for a second season. Barbarians was planed as a one Season miniseries about the battle of teutoburg and thats it. They never had plans to go beyond that.

Respect from Canada, it's important for actual students of history to make their stand and call out bad historical filmmaking. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your videos

Kudos to you! I was hyped for Barbarians 1 and watched it in German! Truly Magical! Alas, Netflix and many big film makers are too short sighted to see the complexity of history, that it isn't just a Good vs Evil (Though sometimes it's like that), it's an interconnected web of everything and just reducing it to a line to fit the "modern audience" is just frustrating! Kudos to you guys!

Slingshots never get any love. When games include them they have a range of like 20 feet, and everyone thinks they're far crappier than bows. In their hayday, they were on par with bows with similar range and deadliness (as long as you were well skilled in it's operation). One of my favorite rounds the Romans used were whistler rounds, which they used to terrorize the celts at night during raids. Plus they were super easy to carry and farm less-than-optimal ammo for in a pinch, perfect for Legionnaires.

@Moritz19081980

Жыл бұрын

In Total War Rome 2 Romans only have slingshots and they are super important and valueable. Not saying Total War games are very accurate in general but in this point they are.

spannender Beitrag. Mich würde gerade interessieren, wie akkurat Ihr "The Fall of the Roman Empire" mit Sir Alec Guinness als Marc Aurelius findet. Mich hat dieser Film enorm beeindruckt nicht nur durch das hervorragende Schauspiel von Guiness, sondern auch die Ausstattung und eben auch die Kampfszenen, die ganze Atmosphäre / Marc Aurels Feldlager etc...

@KaptorgaVisualHistory

Жыл бұрын

Kenne davon bisher nur die Rede Marc Aurels an die Rekruten, in der mit der diversen ethnischen Zusammensetzung der römischen Armee sehr schön umgegangen wird. Bin da erst die Tage drauf gestoßen durch einen schönen Beitrag von Arte F ('faire l'histoire' mit Patrick Boucheron, Folge: 'Römer gegen "Barbaren" - Konstruktion einer Legende'), in dem der Ausschnitt gefeatured wurde. Sehe ihn mir gerne über die Feiertage mal an :-)

Thank you so much for the enlightenment. I also believe in being firm on certain principles. Haven't seen Barbarians yet, though now I will probably limit myself to season 1. As a norwegian, I felt a lot of cringe watching Vikings until the end (what an atrocity how they depicted Halfdan the Black; in particular his relation to Harald and also the way he died; he drowned going through the ice over the Randsfjord, in Røykenvik, on a horse sleigh). Stay strong, and happy new year :)

@JayzsMr

Жыл бұрын

Season 1 is bad enough, I wouldn't bother

Great video, looking forward to some more English voiced/subbed vids in the future!

Großartig, vielen Dank!

I studied archaeology up to a Masters degree, I only managed to watch half an Episode of Barbarians before my brain quit and I had to stop. Kudos to Historical Advisors to manage to stay and get paid to season two. You should probably get a CATscan to make sure you didn't get brain cancer from this job!

I haven't had time to watch BII yet, but I enjoyed season one. I will probably still watch it eventually, but after this it's not a priority, where it was next in my queue. The differences listed here though were great. And I'm interested in seeing more of your content....

I really respect you 1) for trying to change this from the inside. I know you must have had to compromise a lot before deciding to quit, sometimes staying is harder than leaving 2) for quitting when you realized you could not have an effect on the direction the show took.

If your not teaching in school you should be. If you are then keep doing it. You, sir, are a wonderful speaker and I really enjoyed your video which I found both informative and entertaining. Thank you so much for taking the time to make this video.

@KaptorgaVisualHistory

Жыл бұрын

Thank You very much for Your compliment, sir!

I feel you. Thx for that heartfelt statement.

I'm directly descended from Rollo and Tancrede the Viking in Normandy, cool to hear you bring him up here.

Never heard of you guys before, but I’m subbed now :)

Not only did Barbarians S2 not capture the historical feel of a place and time, but neither did Barbarians S1. It still felt like you were taking 2020s people and placing them in the time of Arminius.

@NKA23

Жыл бұрын

I see kind of a pattern there. Many shows and movies do that these days. It's really annoying and absurd.

@liubei3058

Жыл бұрын

@@je-freenorman7787 I’m pretty sure the Greeks called anyone who didn’t speak Greek “Barbarians”…

@liubei3058

Жыл бұрын

@@je-freenorman7787 You don’t think they didn’t call Persians by a certain name too? You can say someone is a barbarian while also recognizing a certain kind.

@liubei3058

Жыл бұрын

@@je-freenorman7787 You’re fascinatingly wrong. bárbaros is the Greek word, from which it derives, meant “babbler.” Then the Latins had it, and it was Barbarus to the Romans.

@liubei3058

Жыл бұрын

@@je-freenorman7787 Persians were called bárbaros because they didn’t speak Greek.

I did not watch the second season because the first one was already to cringe for me and i am happy about it. I did enjoy this rant though :D

hey, great job on the first season!

I was so stoked when Barbarians 2 came out! I actually started watching it when I was recovering from surgery, so I literally had nothing else to do but watch TV. I made it 3 or 4 episodes in and stopped halfway through. I realize they took their liberties with the first one but I was still an awesome series but the 2nd one just had me asking why.

Sorry you had to let this go, man, that really sucks. I expected far greater from a foreign production since foreign cinema has usually been better than the crap Hollyweird dishes out, evidently thanks to passionate people like you! Your work is greatly appreciated and I'm glad I could at least see you doing okay on KZread instead of most other good people I hear about going through similar things just fading into obscurity. God bless you!

@damionkeeling3103

Жыл бұрын

You have to go to Eastern Europe for more accurate historical dramas. Unfortunately they don't produce a lot.

Wow, very well summarized Video about the self made problems of Netflix. I kinda feel like they dont even care anymore about losing money, it almost feels like they just want to produce disaster after disaster. I cant really understand why? Anyway, amazing video, thank you for speaking your mind as honestly as you did. Also, I cant wait to explore your channel a bit more, relived history is an amazing topic. You guys are based in Germany right?

@KaptorgaVisualHistory

Жыл бұрын

Yes we are, Art Historian, Historian and Archeologist, a bit of polish upbringing in the mix. :D

@KaptorgaVisualHistory

Жыл бұрын

Thank You very much! Yes we're based in Germany. But as said in the video we're planning to do more content in English.

@msb4838

Жыл бұрын

Taxes? Maybe they can get a deduction for "losses" somehow? Movie studios do it. Dunno if it's possible to do for them?

I think a good isolated story taking place only in one garrison could show the end of the empire with one of the garrisons who were left behind. They had a roman priest during this time trying to keep order north of Italy that would be cool to see on screen as well.

I'm so happy that this video and your channel was suggested to me. As an American of 75% German, Swedish, and Danish combined descent, I am always curious about the history of my ancestors, both good and bad. I did like the show and both of it's seasons, but I also had no idea how historically inaccurate it was. I loved Vikings, but I kind of knew it was mostly inaccurate. I can't wait to watch more from your channel, as I love to learn the history and Language of my ancestors that was lost, when my families immigrated to the states. Also as an American, it pains me greatly to know that one of our recent leaders and history have helped give rise to a new Nationalist movement across the globe, as if we should have learned these lessons already. Pride in ones country shouldn't mean we become violently superior to those around us, and live at there expense since we are better than "they"

@johndenugent4185

6 ай бұрын

Hmmm, if you are referring to Trump, obnoxious and narcissistic, yes, and other things, but he is the first president in decades to NOT get us into a war..... (which I as a fmr Marine and son of a WWII and Korea Marine appreciated)....He also wanted US troops out of Syria and for the US to wind down NATO. And Is wanting peace, and for Americans to have high-paying industrial jobs (as we used to when I was young, and high-school graduates with union-wage jobs could buy a house and a new car) "hypernationalism"?

I hope Metatron reacts to this.

Oh this is going to be so great!!

I think now more than ever people are craving historical accuracy rather than over the top entertainment and romanticised notions. Accuracy is breaking down preconceived ideas of people of the time and events that have shaped many contemporary ideas. I believe, due to the internet, the access of global historical information is what people are searching for. They say that if we ignore history we are doomed to repeat it, but when we interpret history in the manner of just making a entertaining story we can also do more damage.

Keep up the great work! Just discovered your channel on my yt rec. You've earned my subscription. I'm from Malaysia 🇲🇾😊❤👍

I‘ve had this thought for years now, literally every aspect of filmmaking is advancing year after year. Except the writing.

Ah the magical "modern audience", i cant wait for the far future to meet these mystical people.

@Karaksonen

Жыл бұрын

Whenever you read that something is made for "Modern audiences" it almost always about 'THE MESSAGE'

@JayzsMr

Жыл бұрын

The don't really exit anymore, it's a thing of the past most movie makers haven't understood yet

thank you for this video. surely, this will be ignored, but we can always hope it might have some impact. greetings from bavaria - stay true to yourselves.

Even that best old Ben Hur movie clearly did show how the high class Jews of Israel were very Hellenized and in very good terms with many local Romans. Surprising.

Historical advisors are one of the most important elements in historical movies/ TV series. Thing is their word isn't always heard and the director and producers ignore them whenever they can. It's not about nit-picking or being "awkward" it's to pay homage to these men and women whose story is being told, and also to further invite the viewer to step into a truly authentic world - no funny business.

@hildahilpert5018

8 ай бұрын

Of course they ignore the advice.Its all about the money period.Its Hollywood.

Die zweite Staffel von Barbarians ist das deutsche Äquivalent zu Braveheart was historische Authentizität angeht

@ViriatoII

Жыл бұрын

Viel schlimmer, am Braveheart William Wallace stirbt, die Frauen sind keine Mega-Krieger und es gibt kein Tokenafrikaner

@laisphinto6372

Жыл бұрын

als Halbafrikaner finde ich die Inklusion ein bisschen bescheuert vor allem dass diese Karhagerin eine Zeitreiserin ist und sich an Rom rächen und nicht dass logische macht und Parthia geht sondern durch das gesamte römische Reich reist um ein paar primitive Barbaren zu finden.

@ViriatoII

Жыл бұрын

@@laisphinto6372 Danke, stimmt!

@lenoio512

Жыл бұрын

@@ViriatoII ich verstehe nicht warum ihr euch daran immer am meisten aufhängt. Die ganzen Punkte aus dem Video verstehe ich und kann ich nachvollziehen. Dieser generelle hass immer wenn eine dunkelhäutige Person in Europa in einer historischen Serie zu sehen ist, ist aber einfach blöd. Klar wir kennen nicht wirklich viele aber selbst in prähistorischen Zeiten gab es Menschen die in den Alpen geboren wurden und in England gestorben sind. Das Handelsnetzwerk zwischen Nordeuropa und dem Mittelmeer florierte seit der Bronzezeit mit Unterbrechungen. Dass eine dunkelhäutige Person speziell in der Zeit der Römer in nordeuropa zu sehen ist, ist jetzt nicht mega unplausibel.

@ViriatoII

Жыл бұрын

@@lenoio512 (sorry, I'll write in english, I'm Portuguese) in that time, such a different looking person would be subject to huge discrimination and abuse to the point of death, which is conveniently ignored in all these series. I worked in Morocco and they told me "140y ago from this town southwards, any caught European would be decapitated." 2 years later, 2 Scandinavian girls my age were r¤ped and decapitated on camera there. That's how tribal societies were to foreigners in Europe as well. You can't be hurt by the mild internet racism and at the same time expect that people were treated fairer 2000 years ago, it was much worse, like Africa. The Roman Empire was multi-ethnic, but the Sahara was a huge barrier, much bigger than in the middle ages because there were no cammels there back then. The reason why this irks so much is because it's a political insertion, which has become inescapable in this landscape of bland movies in a time that Europe is suffering the biggest demographic shift since the Bronze Age, accompanied by growing violent crime and social fragmentation, where the political message is "accept these changes or you're enemy number 1". I'm always fair and kind to any person regardless of race, but this is wrong as a mass phenomenon and it hurts me as much as seeing the Amazon rainforest being destroyed, or Cheetas going extinct.

Great analysis bro!

Hallooo kurze Frage.. Wie könnte ein dickeres Gewand für unters kettenhemd (als Polsterung) etwa aussehen welches für die Zeit 1050 -1150. (Kein Gambeson) Zone:Nördliches Europa und Mittel Europa.. Ich dachte einfach wie eine Tunika (etwa Knielang) mit ein paar schichten aus wolle oder Leinen nicht gesteppt..

Well said!!

Was wäre eigentlich eine Empfehlung für Serien/Filme bei denen die historischen Aspekte nicht ganz vernachlässigt werden? Würde mich über Tipps freuen.

@kaltaron1284

Жыл бұрын

Haengt stark davon ab, wie streng man das sieht. Eine Einschraenkung auf eine bestimmte Epoche/Region waere auch sinnvoll.

@Semiboes

Жыл бұрын

@@kaltaron1284 Naja, mittelstreng. Aber ich hätte einfach mal gern einen Anhaltspunkt.

@kaltaron1284

Жыл бұрын

@@Semiboes Dann sage ich einfach mal Kagemusha. Aber auch sonst kann man mit Filmen von Kurosawa Akira nicht viel falsch machen.

@Semiboes

Жыл бұрын

@@kaltaron1284 Danke! Werd ich mir suchen. 👍

@hi23nutzer21

3 ай бұрын

​@@SemiboesWenn du es nur mittel streng willst mit einem einigermaßen vernüftigem Politik Drama empfehle ich ROM von HBO. Wenn man die eigentlichen Familien Verhältnisse nicht kennt aber sher gute Sets sehen will die das Rom zum Ende der Republik mit einer funktionierenden Story will, kann ich das Empfehlen. Die Serie hat auch nur 2 Staffeln und war quasie das Pilot Projekt für HBO um später Game of Thrones zu drehen.

Just BINGED Rome Season 1 & 2 in just one weekend. I would love to know what you thought of the show (if seen) and it's historical accuracy! thanks!!

Brilliant! Love the style and love that you, an actual historical expert is calling Netflix out for it's blatant politicizing and changing of history.

Love it! Kick it, algorithm!

YEEEEESSSS!!! THANK YOU FOR DOIN' IT IN ENGLISH!!!

@MarpoLoco

Жыл бұрын

Batt, mei Englisch is not se Jello fromm se Egg. Ei'm anderständing bäreli wot hi säs. 😅

@jkmaxwell8836

Жыл бұрын

@@MarpoLoco Setts vai ser are tschörmen sabtaitls ;-)

@MarpoLoco

Жыл бұрын

@@jkmaxwell8836 Hahaha 🤣. Indihd. Wish you a Merry Christmas.

@jkmaxwell8836

Жыл бұрын

@@MarpoLoco Merry Christmas to You too, Sir!

Sind die Rüstungen der wichtigen, römischen Schauspieler (ich glaube, die heissen lorica musculata) aus Metall oder aus Kunststoff? Mir ist aufgefallen, dass die etwas anders gewirkt haben als die Rüstungen der Legionäre und wollte hier kurz nachfragen. Besten Dank im Voraus :D

@KaptorgaVisualHistory

Жыл бұрын

Hallo! es gab von den meisten Rüstungstypen Versionen sowohl aus Metall, als auch aus leichteren (stuntgeeigneten) Materialien. Von den loricae segmentatae, gab es (für beide Ausführungen) Stuntmodelle aus einer Art Hartgummi, die Kettenhemden (lorica hamata) gab aus Metall, Kunststoff und in silberner Maschenware, die die Oberflächenstruktur imitiert. Nur aus Metall gab es (wenn ich mich recht erinnere) die Schuppenpanzer (lorica squamata) und von den loricae musculatae habe ich nur die versicherungsfreundlichen Versionen aus Kunststoff gesehen.

Respect for showing what is the reality, from a non partisan Sicilian/Italian

@TheWoollyFrog

Жыл бұрын

Respect for writing your actual culture before the one prescribed to you by your artificial nation.

@commissiotibinobiliviro1408

Жыл бұрын

@@TheWoollyFrog the two aren't mutually exclusive, but complementary. Italian identity isn't monolithical but varies throughout the regions. Despite our differences we also share many things, and we've always had. Greetings from a Venetian/italian :)

@TheWoollyFrog

Жыл бұрын

@@commissiotibinobiliviro1408 "Share" is a weird thing to say when your region's native language has more in common with French than with Florentine Tuscan (Italian).

@commissiotibinobiliviro1408

Жыл бұрын

@@TheWoollyFrog idk where you got that information from, but I highly doubt that that's true. In any case I recommend you taking a trip to Veneto and asking people whether they feel more akin to a frenchman or a tuscan, whatever language similiraties there might be haha... Jokes aside, im not saying that you dont have a point, but I think you exaggerated it, that's all :)

9:30 people who despise their own countries and history should not be allowed to make shows about them in the first place lmao This kind of historic revisionism is so embarrassing and pathetic to look at.