Convinced that the length of the episodes are all "we go until Joey finally breaks."

@alexmaille4768

Жыл бұрын

I like the content, but I’d be happy to see shorter more concise videos from this channel as well.

Updating my 21 decks on a near-monthly basis sounds daunting at first, but is also oddly therapeutic. I constantly question if the deck is good enough to keep built, is it fun to play? Updating them helps destroy that despair and reignites my passion to want to play them... and have fun with my friends at the same time, because who knows what kind of updates they've made!

@danaroach29

Жыл бұрын

I get thinking of it as therapeutic for sure.

@CarlosTorres-vj3vh

Жыл бұрын

I... I have like 4 decks... How do you maintal the 21???

@dirtywizard

Жыл бұрын

@@blaze556922 dude....Magic is expensive! At a conservative estimate of $75 per deck (precon + 20 ish dollars in upgrades), your looking at hundreds of dollars for even a few decks. Based on what I experience in my playgroup and LGS, this is a very low estimate. I would wager average deck price is easy over 100 dollars, and would not be surprised if it was significantly more than that. Obtaining even 20 precons and not changing them at all would be 1000+ dollars. Not everyone is about that life. I love building decks, but I don't have infinite disposable income, and even less disposable time to play them all.

@andrewsparkes6275

Жыл бұрын

The opposite question may be "If you need the deck to be updated every month to re-ignte the passion to play them, are they ACTUALLY fun to play in the first place, or is it a sunken-time/cost fallacy, where you're only playing them because you force yourself to spend time on decks you lose a passion for within the month? And if so, are they worth keeping built in the first place, or should you maybe break them apart and find a deck that holds your interest even when you aren't keeping them together because of how much time you've wasted updating decks that you have admitted you otherwise quickly lose passion for?" A deck that is truly fun to play is fun to play even if you haven't played it for weeks, or updated it for months. Don't get me wrong, I've definitely fallen into the trap you've fallen into, by trying to craft and re-craft my Kykar deck every few weeks from Storm to Equipment/Aura-Voltron, to Pillowfort'n'Anthems, to all-out Stax. But then I realised the fun quickly faded because it wasn't actually a truly fun deck, and I was just keeping it in one form or another because I couldn't admit Kykar actually just WASN'T a fun commander (for me personally; I know some folks love it). On the flipside, I barely updated my OG Omnath mana-dork-and-untappers deck at all, and had fun playing it for three-plus years until I took it apart to build Raggadragga - and I can't see myself needing to touch that now it's build, either! Fun decks are fun decks you have true passion for, even when you aren't forcing temporary-and-fleeting almost-fake passion. Don't get me wrong tuning decks you already have true passion for (that doesn't fade even when you aren't forcing yourself to update them) can absolutely be therapeutic and I don't mean to knock that side of things. I'm merely talking about what you say about decks you quickly lose passion for when you're not updating them; that's not passion, it's being too stubborn to admit they aren't holding your love and should probably just be taken apart, to build something you DO love more. It's the deck equivalent to staying in a boring, dull relationship that doesn't hold your romantic interest anymore - and keeping on going on weekend breaks to 're-ignite the passion' that's really just two days of better-than-at-home-sex (that's still not actually GREAT sex) that quickly fades again anyway - just because you've already spent so long with them, instead of getting the guts to break up and find someone genuinely better suited to you!

@somersetbassett4580

Жыл бұрын

Nice.

Bruh idk how I never realized to put Master Chef in my Chishiro deck. Good call Matt good call.

The constant deluge of new product and the increasing prices, along with the NOT increasing incomes, MIGHT have something to do with that. Just a hunch really.

@NekoSauce

Жыл бұрын

Would you say the deluge of new products are......toxic to the game?

@welbenn

9 ай бұрын

​@@NekoSauce😂😂😂

That Withering Gaze joke was top notch, Joey.

@nickgizzi5891

Жыл бұрын

I died 😂

Absolutely love the video! Dana absolutely killing us with these phrases from left-field...

@NotAllWhoWanderAreLost641

Жыл бұрын

Dana MVP of this podcast

@dozi3r

Жыл бұрын

Funnier than joey!

I lost it when Joey lost it to Matt's Schrödinger's deck box joke. Such a genuine moment of laughter & joy.

Awesome video! Love Dana's take on pulling know cards like Rift for testing 👍😃👍

Listening to the a month after it was put on KZread. This is an awesome episode I couldn’t agree more with being emotionally attached to certain cards.

Watching this video really puts into stark contrast how much more commander yall play than I do. One of the things that I find hard on updating decks and evaluating the updates is that so much of it is theoretical because I sometimes only manage to get in half a dozen games in in-between set releases sometimes with the pace they keep coming out these days. Most of those games I usually end up playing a different deck so what usually happens is any particular deck will usually get maybe 4 games in between sets if I'm really liking it at the time. Only playing that few games means that I frequently won't actually see a card that I decided to try out for 3 or 4 months in an actual game so its so hard to judge whether or not the card works in the deck and whether I like it.

@dirtywizard

Жыл бұрын

I agree completely. There have been cards I have picked up for decks that I either only got into play once or twice. The nature of the game (hour + long games, 100 cards) means that it is entirely possible to never actually get a card into play on a regular basis, let alone certain combos. I find myself making change without even seeing how card plays out. I have multiple decks, but when I math it out as far as how much time I get to actually play, it really only makes sense to have about 3 or 4. There just isn't enough time to actually play more than that and feel like you have an understanding of the deck and the cards.

@jorisreichert5969

Жыл бұрын

@@dirtywizard thank you for sharing this view. I have around 10 decks, but I too only have the time to properly figure out what works for like three decks. Maybe I should stop trying to maintain more than 3 to 5 decks at a time, and just let the rest sit for a while, playing them from time to time, possibly coming back to it later. I like it :)

Master Chef also has some busted interactions with Persist creatures.

@Ashton-kq7pj

Жыл бұрын

why?

@garagavia

Жыл бұрын

@@Ashton-kq7pj because the +1/+1 counter from Master Chef cancels out the -1/-1 counter from persist. This let's you loop persist creatures infinitely with a sac outlet

I would love for you guys to Challenge the Stats with Ascendant Acolyte in +1+1 counter decks and Kyler decks. This card always goes crazy for me when I play it in those types of decks!

Matt is an absolute pun machine and I love it!!! THE BEST podcast for MTG hands down.

I always just pull out a land when I want to add a new spell 🙃

My sythis deck is one of the 778 deck with gossamer chains! Such a great card, especially in a low-medium power levels where big swings can matter a little bit more

I think Dana hit the nail ! The overload of "playable" "must play" cards makes it a chore and not for fun, just to stay relevant with your decks.

Here's a question: Has Commander become a rotating format because of the amount of focus WOTC has put on it?

@garagavia

Жыл бұрын

Not really, cause the goal of deck building is not too maximize the power of the deck (outside of cEDH). So you don't have to change a deck

@cylonsteve2511

Жыл бұрын

@@garagavia Tell that to my pod group. The Arms Race is real 😅

@elliotthood1719

Жыл бұрын

@@cylonsteve2511 bummer. Propose weaker decks, or play jank and hope someone joins you. Maybe find a new play group if that doesn’t work?

@cylonsteve2511

Жыл бұрын

@@elliotthood1719 I will put forward this fair proposition, thank you.

@-8h-

Жыл бұрын

My group has some moral rules. Like we'll play infinites but only if they're more than 2 cards (aside from certain instances). Nobody will play stax. We won't play bs cards like vorinclex. I personally don't use tutors outside of fetchlands (for the most part).

I really resonated with the point about updating your deck based on card categories / archetypes. I am finding myself breaking the framework for each deck as I get to know how to pilot the deck better, and so when updating decks I know what categories of cards I want to prioritize in updating over others. (As an example, my Edric deck works off of practically no mana rocks / ramp effects, I can ignore that category and focus on finding more optimal creatures to run in the deck) Joey's later point on looking for or discovering cards that break the mold of your deck, or work on a different axis than what your deck already does, really stood out to me. That feels opposite of the kind of cards I tend to look out for and add to my decks, so that is my takeaway and great food for thought!

I think this video really represents me. I am a very casual EDH player, I have 5 decks and play once a month or less. I built 2 decks from Capenna, and have not played them yet and already had to make modifications to them because of consumer pressure. I think wotc is pushing players into hardcore mode, at least for me as a very casual player... Still, I do think EDH is pretty great for people able to play weekly

@visionbishop9517

Жыл бұрын

I just started with midnight hunt,never missed a prerelease until double masters.I know hate what's happening to the game.Its tooo much,too fast,to often...plus the content is being diluted with weird stuff (war hammer,Dr who😳) Im not updating anymore,or buying anything else.I already have over 3000 cards and 10 edge decks,1 pauper deck.This is crazy,and getting away to expensive 🙅

@NekoSauce

Жыл бұрын

​@@visionbishop9517no one is forcing you to buy product

Great podcast! Definetly got me thinking more on which cards to upgrade

This episode was so helpful. Been working on upgrading my Ur-Dragon deck after taking a short break from Magic (3~ months) and I've been trying to catch up on anything. Looking on EDHREC helped me a lot. Ordered Rith, Liberated Primeval to replace Dragon's Disciple.

I just rebuilt my Ghave deck for the first time in 7 years, and I did all this! I'm so proud 😄 analyzed from the perspective of function and mana curve primarily. Also, definitely seeing if master chef could work there...not sure, but it would be fun.

You guys are just incredible. Never stop being you!

Here's a challenge the stats card: "Amulet of Vigor." (just because it doesn't get mentioned enough in analysis) Amulet of Vigor is so awesome with all the "Comes in play tapped lands" AND it gets around the ever increasing amount of cards that have or add comes in play tapped effects.

Managing a commander cube is a great way to build these skills. I have 10 archetypes to update as well as a package of staples of draw, ramp, and removal for each color, and colorless utility cards. Each new set provides about 20ish cards to consider with about half that making the cut (unless you get to do an archetype overhaul, like when Neon Dynasty dropped all the ninjas for Dimir). And Dana is right, if you don't update for a few sets things become daunting. I can't handle doing multiple sets at once, I have to go back and make edits per set, even if that means you add a card only to take it back out further along in the process.

Can I just say that, no matter what you talk about, what I really come back for are moments like the end. Made me laugh and feel so warm and fuzzy inside. Just seeing Joey giggle. "Love you guys" is just such an understatement but also perfectly captures this energy.

I do find value in Matt and Dana's input. The middle guy does a good job of keeping the discussion at ground level.

I started to find it overwhelming to update my 40 odd decks, cost and time. Now I look at new cards, note them down on a pad and when I think ‘oh, I’ve not played X deck in a while, I only then dig out the list, look up my Commander on EDHREC and update it. So I’m updating 2-4 a month and it’s financially and time achievable

Oh man, I've been thinking about the Ship of Theseus a TON in regards to commander. I don't take apart my decks so I have decks from 2011 and thinking about my Karador and Animar decks now vs. back then how many cards have remained for a decade gives me joy. This is extra true for my Sedris, Rith, and Hanna decks where I've just recently changed the commanders out. The decks are still doing the same thing, reanimation, go wide tokens, and pillowfort, but even with them doing the same thing the new commanders ask for slightly different deck building. It's also fun because I keep calling them by their old names since I've had two of them for probably a decade and the other since 2015.

I'm fascinating that Dana make logs for EDH Deck because I do the same thing. I have notebook where I log my changes to help me update on Tapped Out. Then I have a list of cards to currently thinking of cutting and testing on sheet of paper. Also on that paper I make notes on the reason for cutting the card and how the new card did in the playtest.

Withering Gaze is never going to be the same card to me EVER again 🤣🥳

@garagavia

Жыл бұрын

I like otherworldly gaze for similar reasons

I build flavor decks and heavy theme decks usually which typically means I don't need to update them often. That said... Dominaria and Brother's War are gonna tableflip a couple of them and I am excited.

I honestly miss the times when there was one commander product and some three or whatever sets per year. Perpetual spoiler season and commander-targeted overload kind of make the whole progress of seeing your deck grow... different. I remeber when Nature's Bond was spoiled and I was like "I have to make sure I grab that card at prerelease!" and now I'd just be like "Another one of those, I guess. Won't make the cut in almost any of my decks."

This topic was very relevant to me last year when I had not played for very long. My ratio was very off and more often than not I would cut almost every piece of removal because I wanted to do the thing I didn't mind see what other people were doing. And then wonder why I was losing so much. Granted I was a very new player. But now when I deck build. I start at the lands (proper land count) The ramp and the removal (10 pieces minimum). And then the key pieces of the deck that make it functional. Once the I have a pile together Ill look at the mana curve and make sure it's not too lopsided. If I love a deck and there are too many cards I also want to put in but there are not any space, then I will just make a second deck.

What I like to do is build a wishlist on Card Kingdom and when I see a good card for a deck, I add it to the list and then when I have some money I’ll buy 10+ cards at a time.

No joke I watch this show 90% for the puns and 10% for the content lol

I think one of the most difficult part of upgrades is when a new card comes out that is good for your deck but it also interacts with a card from several sets ago, an example is new sheoldred which looks cool and probably plays well with cut of the profits which sees almost no play currently. In combination those are big card draw and lifegain or potentially a kill combo on an opponent (or both or doubles with casuality).

When I upgrade a deck, I try to think about what my goals are. Most of my decks are trying to win, so most upgrades are designed to increase the power level of the deck, whether I emphasis or deemphasize a category does depend on how good that deck is in that area. If I'm really happy with how a deck is playing, then I don't adjust it as much, if I'm really bothered by how it plays then I tend to adjust it a lot more, filling in weaknesses and building in new synergies/combos. I often will set out in front of me the cards I want to add, and then dig through the deck for the cards that can go, and then pick from those what should come in. If a deck has actual weaknesses, it might be a bit more complicated, because you'd be pulling those in favour of cards that will be assets.

I can say that after my first iteration of a deck I often have at least one or two bad cards I can cut, I love putting in some jank in the hopes of a big payoff. Most if not all of them get cut during the second iteration after I run it by my friends/playgroup to see what I can do to improve the list lol

I have 3 decks. However, as I've played over the years, I've stopped playing 2 and focused on my Kadena deck. I've found that despite it being so narrow, it allows me to adjust smaller areas of the deck, and if anything new comes out, I don't have to stress about fitting in 15 new cards per set.

I have about 27 decks and more being built and updating decks can be a hassle but having categories (I refer to them as packages: Ramp, Removal, Draws, Massive Wipes and then whatever the Engine or theme of the deck is and of course there can be overlaps) makes updating decks easy if you know what package the spell belongs to. I also update decks based off how often I play them and how much I enjoy them.

I have an alela deck heavy in white, its my first ever commander deck (I'm new) and I LOVE you guys for that Gossamer Chains recommendation 🥺

Funny. I also swapped in Candlekeep Inspiration for Coat of Arms in my Talrand deck. 😀

Withering gaze is so weird and I love it! Slamming it right in Hinata where it's only 2 mana :)

Matt you missed a great opportunity when you said database. Where do I store all my dad jokes......on my dad-abase

I had this after Dominaria United when I thought none of the cards were what I was really wanting, then pulled all the golgori and Dimir cards which let me tune up two decks and then reused the old ones in a new commander deck. This is how they get you…

You know what? I only keep around 2-3 decks built at all time and update them regularly. It also makes me feel more attached to the deck, so I don't dismantle them after like 2 weeks.

I have a challenge the stats. Need for Speed, cost: R, Enchantment, Sacrifice a land: Target creature gains haste until end of turn. It's in 11XX decks on edhrec. If you are playing with Korvold, Omnath, Titania, Soul of Windgrace, splendid reclamation, crucible of worlds, sun titan, etc. You should try it out.

I now have a stack of around 20 potential midrange cards for each of my decks, but can I find time to upgrade my 20 decks....😂 So the stacks all get bigger. I agree, catagory ratios is key. Ive found by swapping a card out for another, if they are not the same category, it throws tbe ratios off and becomes a less efficent deck. Loosing card draw, mana consistancy etc makingbthe deck worse to play. Analysis via multiple ways and cycling through a few times helps loads.

So summary, category ratios, type ratios, mana curve, win cons, are essential to analyse a few times each upgrade.

Moonshae Pixie can also be a cool challenge the stats. Cause its a card you can use to help another player to have evasion or block flying things and ofc for your own creatures cause why not. Oh and carddraw is also an added bonus ;)

Watching Joey spiral into existential despair was a joy

I check all new released cards and add them to a list if they match the theme. Then when I have the time I see if it can actually replace a card or not, if so, I'll add it to a buy list =)

My favorite deck has a journal. I keep track of what i change or if there was a way to win when i lost

@10:00 THREE VISITS = this reprint was made as an alternate image for the Doctor Who set and my giddy aunt it'S in the deck whenever green is in the color archetype

I have master chef in my renata deck. 😂 Tis a goodie. Gossamar chains for my Shrines deck 👀

Dana was on fire in this episode!

Keldon warlord also gets pretty big in Marton Stormgald...Also big muscles cool

Dana is the best 😂 Kardashian Secret Lair had me rolling

Hear what you saying about, keeping up with sets, however I've only just got into building EDH decks, and am quite happily, seeking specific "text" or "mechanisms". Searching through 100-300 cards seems totally okay. I think my record is 2000. (The thousands is definitely harder/longer process)

No MTG channel does better intros than you fellas, great as always

For me, Withering Gays was a fun and wholesome joke up till “Bold Choice”. I usually like it better when everyone’s jokes are added on rather than commented on.

So my first deck was a sorin tribal vampire deck. All 8 sorins. Athreos is the commander because its a fun political commander to keep my hand full of my zerg rushing lifelink/deathtouch vampires. I have one of those cardboard 800 card cardboxes that has all the stuff I have cut out of the deck. I sometimes wonder if there is a better deck in the cuts box.

I don't have any income nor enough cards to make a reliable commander deck, and I leave the house maybe 5 times a year max, so I only play Historic Brawl on Arena. The way I approach changes to a deck there depends on how many new cards I want to add. If it's just a couple, I'll make the swaps, but if I get a bunch of new cards, I tear the deck apart and build it from scratch. I don't think about deck-building in terms of card draw or removal or whatnot, but only on the strategies and synergies in the deck, and then I find spells that both work with those synergies and do the more general stuff. A fight spell for my Emiel deck? No chance. A fight spell that proliferates first? Auto-include. If my cards aren't all doing what I'm already trying to do, it's not as fun for me. I want to find those silly lines that give you insane value with niche combos. Of course, most of my decks will run Command Tower and Arcane Signet or whatever, but Pillar of Origins is a lot more fun to play in a tribal deck than an Arcane Signet despite being worse, and it comes down to how it makes you think about the game and construct lines.

Yea, I find it so hard to keep up with all the cards and what's good in my decks - the last couple years so many cards have flown under the radar. I think since around Kaldheim, the product overload has been so real. I love the new cards, but going so quickly, the story feels more rushed and I feel like we don't have time to enjoy our cards before more come out.

I have 42 decks. I try to keep up with adding new cards to my decks every set release, but i still sometimes miss some cards by simply not seeing every great new card for every deck.

You have a link to that pinata deck it sounds so fun!

I turned my Chromium deck into a modal deck then into a Cube just so I could fluctuate the deck and what I get to use in it. Keeps it fresh without the concern of getting rid of cards until you want to.

I would be 100% down for a Bill Hader secret lair legendary creature card, but ONLY if it's Stefon...

Tommy Lee Jones from the Fugitive is DEFINITELY mono blue. his flavor text will say "... I don't care."

As cards come out that could fit into my more "finished" decks I keep them in a little sideboard for next time I think that deck is a little stale or I draw the same card too many games in a row

I just focus on what the deck power is. the lower the power the higher the flavor. so if it improves flavor i'm likely to put that in my lower power decks. I find it hardest in the mid-power to upper-mid power decks. The cedh and the low power precon level decks are generally easier for me. Idk if that's helpful for anyone, but there you go.

Master Chef for Nikara and Yannik!

updating for the most part is easy for me, aside from price issues and those cards that do something unique that's missing in my deck. If they're essentially just a better upgrade to a card I have I just swap them.

I have 76 decks now (and counting) I try to upgrade with all the sets. But with so many decks and so many sets a lot of the time I buy stuff then forget what deck I had to put it in 😂

This may seem like an "Easy out" but, i have most every card i want. My collection has been at this level for quite a while, now. So, when i do get new cards i have the dozen (or so) commander decks that have very specific styles that only specific cards will go into. That said, i built a D&D deck that i have only played once but will probably not play again because it is just too "Busy". I just don't like durdling quite so much. A lot of durdle compared to the average cheese head i'm sure. Not THAT much though. The problem i have now is what decks do i use those cards in IF i don't keep that deck together.

My trick is to just have one main commander deck I care about. Aesi, tyrant of landfall. I still only see 2-3 cards maximum per set that I want to put in that deck and many sets have nothing I want. Being restricted to just 2 colors and a specific theme (landfall) really limits it too.

My biggest issue is updating my tribal decks. Iv got both my Angel and vampire decks, and the problem is theres always going to be new angels and vampire cards coming out. The problem is they have to be better then what i already have, and Wotc is not going to give us Battle Angels of Tyr type cards every year.

I think it also depends on why you play EDH with people. For me the game is secondary, and its mostly just having a fun time with folks. For me winning is fun, but ive also lost so horrifically that im reduced to hysteritcal laughter. Imo this format is uniquely suited for hilarious game states. If i can meet new people, or even just impress folks with a smart play thats enough for me. I at some point just kinda let new cards wash over me and dont feel the need to get something unless it either looks cool or fun to play.

That opening was tangy

For upgrades it's easy I'm constantly focused on the curve while keeping cards in similar categories I feel for me it's best to make the decision to stay within a category only upgrade a card from a category at a time that way you can actually see how the card benefits or doesn't benefit your deck as well

@MrShawnshall

Жыл бұрын

Let it be known, that comment was made; b4 video was completely played

My decks list is so tight that cuts can no longer be made the deck is complete

We are at the point where i built 2 different lists of the same commander, and they share only 3 non-land cards omg them.

I would love to see Joey’s deck building template.

I've built and attempted to maintain.... a few too many decks being honest. I recently had to put one down due to adding too many cards over time. New set, new green/black cards that care about death, and over time it just... stopped functioning properly. In all likelihood I switched out too many of the cards that supported the payoff cards, one at a time over years at this point, never putting the deck down on paper. I may rebuild it eventually, but not for now.

I'm probably a wierdo or a power gamer or something... but I am acutely aware of which card or cards in my deck under perform. The worst card in my most recent deck is often something that I obsess over until every card in there at least feel reasonably good.

"you are so not up to date that you forgot the butt sticker for your kardashian deck"

Wow Dana must play in really heavy land destruction meta If Ashaya made his creatures more prone to removal. It's usually the opposite for me.

But what are the ratios though ?... That's what I struggle with the most. Once the ratios are clear, I would have no issues with swaps ever again

Omg with this new spoilers, I dont know how I'm going to make cuts in my Jirina kudro deck :/

Dominaria un-I.T.-ed is an unset with no artifacts or artificers

For a while now it's been that you actually have to cut good cards to put in better cards

Steve Perry hasn’t been part of Journey for over 25 years. 😂

"I don't know how many decks I have, is it 13, 14?" Me, certian I have over 60 and probably less than 80

The BIGGEST hurdle to updating decks is that when you have that "perfect" synergy even just updating one card is that huge question......what card do I take out, this then leads to does it drastically shift the delicate balance I've achieved in this deck. But then if you do leave it alone for 5/6 months you then find that what was a really good "top tier" deck is now being beaten by those that have been regularly keeping up to date with the Commander Meta, it's most definitely, Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

@justinhoudeshell4031

Жыл бұрын

The amount of new commander focused cards is starting to make edh feel like a rotating format.

Simple answer... make more decks

I put master chef in my pir and toothy deck

Oh hey i actually play master chef in my chishiro deck.

Withering Gaze…I don’t get….ooooohhh…

"Honestly? Mana Crypt is a boring fucking card" 🤣