If you’re the archenemy don’t deflect, embrace being the villain it’s really fun

@Bongus_Bubogus

Жыл бұрын

As a player who mains the straightforwardness of Grixis and Selesnya, yes.

@mofomiko

Жыл бұрын

Nothing worse than a necusar player, of all, to cry about being the target

@GrizzneyGames

Жыл бұрын

​@moko4349 when I was a new player years ago, I had a nekusar deck and didn't understand the hate. I also didn't know how to build him well. Now I understand and accept the hate. 😂

@hotsaucehunter2570

Жыл бұрын

I just built a lord of the nazgul deck. I have embraced the "I am the villain" mentality. Also, I have countered a ramp spell. And that was when I cackled like a villain.

@mofomiko

Жыл бұрын

@@hotsaucehunter2570forget the ring mechanic, biggest flavour-fail of the set that the lord is a more cruel magic card than sauron. Wild, how they doubled down on the new Narset and made an equally, maybe even more oppressive spellsinger commander

Quick note on Valakut Exploration in Ghyrson Starn: You DO NOT want to play a fetch with it unless you can play one of those exiled cards this turn. It does damage to each opponent equal to the number of cards put into your graveyard this way, so cracking a fetch, exiling 2, then dumping them into the graveyard at end of turn will only deal 2 damage to each opponent instead of the 3 from Starn because it is not 2 instances of 1 damage, just 1 instance of 2 damage.

@jcalendar882

Жыл бұрын

Beat me to it. You are correct and besides why play fetches in 2 colors kinda not needed for this. Specially as a nonbo

@MaximBeatsMusic

Жыл бұрын

Not a nombo at all. Just crack the fetch on an opponents turn.

@jcalendar882

Жыл бұрын

@@MaximBeatsMusic you're right! The way they explained it also seemed like you were going to get multiple separate triggers.

@jadegrace1312

Жыл бұрын

@@jcalendar882 Because they fix your mana, shuffle your deck, and remove a land from your deck? They are often correct to play in mono color decks, let alone single color decks.

@jcalendar882

Жыл бұрын

@@jadegrace1312 at that point how hard are you trying to win in a casual format ,also if you play another land on your turn it'll go down to 2 again

I like to think of it like stars on GTA, you just can’t survive the police response at 4 or 5 stars for very long, so keep an eye on your stars while you’re casting spells

@Dragon_Fyre

Жыл бұрын

…. or steal a tank

@warrentang7459

Жыл бұрын

This has revolutionized my mindset hahahaha

I think that the missing piece in the Propaganda vs Stax conversation is that Propaganda doesn't prevent you from attacking, just from easily attacking ME. For someone who's game plan is frequently "go wide" like Matt this might be one in the same but for most players not so much. Most players I know have a variety of deck game plans and usually more than one in the same deck. It is just way to easy for a Groundskeeper/Constant Mists to shut out a combat deck to not have a plan for it.

@16:31 I agree with Dana whole heartedly, but my five color dog tribal deck neeeds to use that Rest in Peace because of that good boi in the art. Look at him. Of course it’s gonna draw attention.

I’m in the Dana part. Gather small value pieces over time so I fly under the radar until it’s too late. When all is in place: make the big move and hit hard.

@mofomiko

Жыл бұрын

Basically my rocco exile matters deck. It gathers so much value it's absolutely stupid. I don't know how I keep getting away with it

@daftjoe5652

Жыл бұрын

@@mofomiko my Tuvasa the Sunlit Enchantress deck too. And Anhelo the Painter spellslingers :-)

@gerardoramos3179

Жыл бұрын

I also love accruing value, but I was thinking about the math in what Dana said. He used 3 cards to draw 5 so he's in a sense up 2 cards and the Planeswalker used 1 card to draw 5 so up 4 cards. So that player did have a greater advantage, but it's why the value is so obvious and why they get targeted

@daftjoe5652

Жыл бұрын

@@gerardoramos3179 exactly. I’d rather have less of an advantage, then be in someones crosshairs. Using small bits of advantage helps with this. Like, limiting tutors with Aven Mindcensor as opposed to stopping tutors with Ashiok Dream Render, makes a huge difference in how the table views your board and how they deal with it.

@archangelstyx7828

Жыл бұрын

To me there's like 4 styles of play, this being "Critical Mass".

I was born an edh player in this fire. My first deck was Niv Mizzet. I just liked his art and bought the Izzet guild kit and used stuff I pulled in boosters to make it 100 cards. After being hard focused every game just cause of his reputation, I almost gave up on Magic. Glad I hung in there and beefed up the deck up. To this day it's still one of my strongest decks and I only take it out when in high powered games.

@RadioSilver27

Жыл бұрын

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

The real lesson to be learned here is that Removal and Interaction are very important elements in any deck, especially commander. Having 4 spot removal and 1 board wipe in your 99 just does not cut it.

@Suhrvivor

Жыл бұрын

With the absurd power level of cards these days playing spot removal or even board wipes is not a good strategy, they just rebuild their board or play the next must-answer-or-lose threat and you're back to square one.

@nickhughes8179

Жыл бұрын

​@@Suhrvivorthat dynamic bothers me. Too many over pushed by Chris Cox cards because the greedy scumbag wants to justify charging $10 a pack. It's how we got Oko, thankfully the player base found out about Cox's greedy little scam and threatened mass boycotts until he relented to $6 per pack. Chris Cox is corporate scum, and a square headed jock stuck in high school still thinking he's bullying nerds by sabotaging their favorite game.

@avall0nNn1992

Жыл бұрын

​@@Suhrvivorjust a bad take. EDH and cEDH are full of interaction.

@nicholasvandonkersgoed3758

11 ай бұрын

Very true. I'm super high on board wipes specifically, and noncreature removal as well. Many a time have I seen an OP artifact or enchantment and no one's ready for it. Board wipes are the only kind of card I intend to buy in bulk, since I think 4 or 5 are correct in decks that don't focus on their creatures.

@NightOfCrystals

2 ай бұрын

Agreed - I think 10-15 pieces of spot removal and 1-5 board wipes are essential - decks running fewer board wipes need more spot removal. Flexibility is also key. I think Beast Within is essentially an auto-include in green, for example.

To add another relevant Art of War saying: "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." Substitute "opponent" for "enemy" and this applies very nicely to the concept of knowing what your deck is doing and having some meta knowledge.

My favorite game ever: I was playing Ayula vs Lathril vs Kalemne vs Daretti. I was trying my best to keep me number of creatures always under the Elves player, and their individual power always lower than the Giants. If you stopped to actually count the "power on board" I was ahead by a lot, but on a superficial view I was never the threat. Went on to win that game after the Elves and the Giants got hit by a few removals.

The dad jokes this week really were better by a factor 50.

I love these kinds of cards. My Ayara deck is a great example of what they can do. Everybody gets so upset about the Mesmoric orb, Contamination, or surprisingly Glacial Chasm!? That they let the Grey merchant, Kokusho, or Blodchiefs ascension through... Eye on the ball, people.

@jadegrace1312

Жыл бұрын

Contamination I get, but mesmeric orb? what's wrong with that lol

@grizzlyreaper7477

Жыл бұрын

@joshuacohen1312 Mono-Black Mill list, that wins with: Plague of Vermin, Syr Konrad, or Rise of the Dark Realms. My actions are justified. Mesmeric Orb, Syr Konrad, and Basalt Monolith, Infinite self mill. Kozilek said hi, right before he shuffled back into my library.

@jadegrace1312

Жыл бұрын

@@grizzlyreaper7477 I understand what the card does. I just can't imagine having a problem with mesmeric orb lol

@grizzlyreaper7477

Жыл бұрын

@@jadegrace1312 OH! I thought you were saying I was a jerk for running it. Now, I get mad hate for Mesmeric orb, Mindcrank, Altar of the Brood, hell, people even hate the new Palentir card from LOTR. Mill and Pingning trigger people hard for some reason.

Liesa, Shroud of Dusk pulls an insane amount of aggro, even if she doesn't generate any card advantage on her own. People do not like to pay 2 for each spell they cast, even if it isn't really all that threatening in the short term and there are more dangerous cards on the board.

very cool discussion, but one thing that i think would be really beneficial for the gang when discussing a lot of these cards and strategies is making the distinction between Cards That Win You The Game (like Chulane, Rhystic Study, and a lot of the high power value-oriented pieces) and Cards That Stop You From Losing (or keep others from winning), like Smokestacks, Ghostly Prison, and pieces that are more like restrictions, taxes, and 'answers.'

Idk how many times I "need" to re-watch/listen to these episodes. So many good topics to mull (not mill) over. The different topics help to build and mold a well-rounded player and player base. Also great to mull over when deckbuilding.

I have a Minn sacrifice deck that floods the board with sad 2 mana creatures that loot or draw when they die, and that produces Illusion tokens with my commander. My hey-makers are Akroma's Memorial and Eldrazi Monument, but there is one more that I love in the deck, Junkyo Bell! I've turned a Whirlpool Drake into a 28/29, took a player out, then produced a 12/1 Illusion on my endstep when the bell trigger resolved. And by then, if there is a boardwipe, I can cheat into play (thanks to Minn) a whole bunch of other permanents, or have a few counterspells ready to go. Deck is a blast

Challenge the stats: Cannibalize should be appearing in a lot more Jon Irenicus decks. Exile an opponents creature while putting another two +1/+1 counters on one of the goaded creatures you already donated to them.

@shayneweyker

Жыл бұрын

That and two-mana permanent creature exile is just good. Even at sorcery speed.

@kingfuzzy2

Жыл бұрын

definitly a fun card in my cube good idea ill also put it in my irenicus deck

When I was still a very new player (~2013), I put Clock of Omens in my very budget commander deck. I didn't have any real combo pieces with it, my commander didn't synergize with it, I just had a couple artifacts that could benefit from one or two more activations. When I played it while having almost nothing on my board, it immediately raised eyebrows and got removed right away before it could do anything, despite other players having better targets to remove at the time. When I asked why, the simple answer was just that it had the potential to do insane things.

The new Aragorn is another one that is wildly strong as a commander, effortlessly winning like you described.

@ronnienasheim7037

11 ай бұрын

Aragorn and gandalf are insanely op. Frodo sneak that's a pretty strong build too.

@musikhippie4030

10 ай бұрын

which version of aragorn?@@ronnienasheim7037

Valakut Exploration is pretty much an auto-include in my red decks. I discovered it when building a Ghyrson Stern deck.

Biggest thing I would have said about Insight vs Rhystic is the word MAY. One card gives you the choice, one card forces you to no matter what else is on the field. When it comes down to forced vs choice, there is always more power in choice than forced for effects that target yourself. Especially when there are things you know can easily turn a card into a suicide move

what a great episode; fantastic discussion and very helpful!

me and my magic group are fairly fresh at the game, but i've noticed that the one thing that pulls aggro from all the other players is just not letting them play the way they intend to. it could be anything from running blue with a bunch of counterspells, running decks with alot of decksearching mechanics so you spend alot of time on your turn finding things in your deck, or running things that forces opponents to play in a certain way they don't want to, like goading all their creatures before they can play their coat of arms. one person in my group loves to run thantis the warweaver which pulls aggro the moment it enters the battlefield due to the "each creature attacks each combat if able".

So, one thing I've found to be very relevant to this -- recursion instead of protection. Your removal works, and it slows me down, but things may still return later to be a nuisance. The way people perceive threat level carrying over from a previous game when someone else cast one Heroic Intervention while I cast and flashed back a Creeping Renaissance plus a Praetor's Counsel... like, my cards draw a massive amount of attention when I cast them, but threat memory, I suppose, is much stronger for the Heroic Intervention, even if it's the other two that win the game. This also, I think, falls into the dichotomy of "you can, but..." versus an outright "no" to having your cards do anything. That's actually also why I really like having a single Propaganda or Ghostly Prison effect out -- it's still quite possible to attack me, so it doesn't often draw a massive amount of ire, but it becomes inconvenient enough to do so that it often shifts people's mental math in favor of hitting someone else instead.

I had a Walls deck that was helmed by Progenitus, but I was always targeted down because of the commander. When Kenrith came out I decided to turn the deck into a king-in-the-castle theme. I play out Walls to form the castle, I play a bunch of the Kings royal knights, and I play Kenrith as King. Unfortunately, the deck still gets targeted to oblivion because of the commander

Im definitely with Matt on the irrational hate of Ghostly Prison and other pillowfort effects. I just have had too many games were people just swing their creatures at everyone but the pillowfort guy because 1) its taxing and 2) usually the pillowfort guy doesnt have as much of a board presence so they are not a "threat". But most of the time, they are just developing their hand and position in other ways and eventually win.

I had a classic case of player removal is enchantment removal a few weeks ago. I was playing my marchesa, the death rose deck and one of my opponents dropped a rest in peace turn two. Guess who got attacked with everything I had because I didn't have any enchantment removal in my hand. He was first out of the game too. Funniest thing was that he told me afterward that he played it out because he hadn't anything to do on turn two and didn't expect me to attack him non stop as soon as he got the enchantment out.

I have a Hylda of the icy crown Stax deck that I absolutely love because it taught me how to think about the social impact of my cards and how to avoid getting targeted because I have an “annoying” commander. I’m still under a year of playing commander and the deck is a budget deck sitting at around $50. When I first started to play the deck I tried to be proactive on my turns and tap stuff down to make guys then swing in and I noticed that my commander was constantly getting removed. I started to play the deck in a very reactive way instead where majority of my turns are untap, draw, pass. Then if someone attacks me I play something like Hithlain Knots where Im tapping something like a blocker they left up or the blocker of the player who’s the threat, scrying, drawing and making a 4/4 blocker all for 3 mana. It comes off like I’m just defending myself instead of getting value and being annoying to other players. If no one targets me then I’ll interact with the player who’s the threat to make it look like I’m helping the table while I’m scrying for my jank combo. (Hylda/ Vhal, Candledeep Researcher/ intruder alarm/ Opposition) which I’ve never been able to pull off. But what ends up happening now is that players leave me alone because they see me as unpredictable but also beneficial for the table and I’ve ended up winning so many games because it comes down to one person and I’ve set myself up to come in strong. Also for me the flavor win of playing like the Ice Queen where I’m wanting to be in my castle alone and pondering the orb (scying) is so fun for a once a night kind of deck. I think if more players had strategies like that it would benefit them to be better magic players all the way around.

Feom my experience 3 is the magic number. The optimal mana cost for casting spells and the max you can do in one turn before people side eye you. When i play Yuriko the moment something deals 4 days in a single turn i get targeted. Id also say 3 minutes is the max amount of time you can take before everyone gets annoyed.

Another card I think it insanely underutilized in omnath is stuff like angelic Accord and crested sunmare. I actually just finished brewing an omnath lifegain deck, excited to test it out!

I think "kill on sight commanders" are a self reinfocing phenomenon. Because the process, at least for me, looked like this: I play a strong Commander, but design the deck in a way that is "chill". So playing him out and get incremental adventage over multiple turns, with the expectation that my commander will stick around. As a wincon I prefer to build toward a combo or an explosive turn to drain everybody, or shoot damage. In actual gameplay, the other players in my playgroup notice that my commander is strong, and rather remove it, before i can do my thing. So I am "forced" (icentivised) to change my deck to be more explosive and also hold my commander back, till i see a clear path to victory, to win before i am dealt with. This makes the deck / commander look even more scary looking to my opponents, rightfully so, so they kill it even faster, without second guessing it. This is now in the state, that I am known as "the combo player" in my playgroup, which primarily plays "battle cruiser" (winning with combat damage) commande decksr. My consequence from this is, I clearly differenciate my decks between "sweaty combo decks" where I try to assamble a combo win throught being focused down with attacks and removel, because fighting an uphill archenemy battle is something that I can totally enjoy. But I don"t want to warp every game I'm in in this way. That's why I have second category of decks, more focused on combat damage and "sneaky" (non obvious) tricks I enjoy, where I try play a more reactive game, and also dont't rely on my commander as much. What a paragraph O.o If you made it through til here, ty for reading! Overall very interesting episode to me!

The weird thing I had to change to help avoid being targeted by players was how I handled my tokens: I used to have tonnes of token cards in my deckboxes, so if I created 15 creature tokens or 20 treasures, I could actually put down a card for each one. What I found was, that looks way more intimidating than someone using just 1 card and a 20-sided die on top to represent their tokens.

The last commander game I played, I was public enemy number one very early. I was playing Kyler, Siguardian Emissary, and I was able to get Thalia, Heratic Cathar out on turn three. One of my opponents was playing an egg deck and did NOT enjoy that I was making all his artifacts come in tapped.

23:49 : Arch enemy decks can be fun. Some times i like being an evil little gremlin and make everyone discard all of their cards, even if i lose first.

@cosmicodyssey3382

Жыл бұрын

Sometimes the fun is being the villain

My third commander deck was a mono blue one. I decided to add quicksilver fountain. The first time I was able to play it, I was able to play it to curve. One by one everyone’s lands we’re turning into Islands. However, my opponents were able to cast at least one spell on each of their turns. By the sixth round, I was that game, I was dead. Just to get rid of the Quicksilver Fountain. I decided to use the time that the game continued without me in it to remove that card from the deck.

This is a very good topic, I start noticing at the beginning of my edh magic journey that drawing attention early game is ticket to a disaster most of the time. But when I got more experience about 2 years of playing I realized than even being in 2nd place will not use removal or destroy a significant part of the 1st place player because then what happens? Suddenly I become the enemy and badly enough I used my resources already.

@mofomiko

Жыл бұрын

Gotta love that poker aspect of this absolutely goated format. Also I just love boardwiping when everyone obviously overextended

Serra Redeemer is a card i think should see more play in any deck with Shadrix Silverquill in the command zone. Not only will it give +1/+1 counters to Shadrix itself, but it also boosts the tokens Shadrix gives to you. Making 4/3 flyers is not bad. Also, if you go with the +1/+1 counters theme, the synergy is right there

Re: the insight recommendation, you can absolutely play this to your meta with any colour-matters. My pod plays no green. But 90% of decks have black. Compost is busted in my meta.

Ghostly Prison and Propaganda are sometimes referred to as Soft stax vs Hard stax like Stasis

I'm running a lot of mana dorks in my Blaster, Combat Dj modular artifacts deck. One of them was a Plague Myr. The presence of infect absolutely draws all the attention in the world. And i get targeted out quickly. I've finally removed the little guy and the deck feels better than ever.

My first ever EDH deck was "Veyran, voice of duality" and I didn't have much experience (or budget). Totally unaware of what brought attention and all, I played an Aria of Flames and automatically painted a target on my board. I was a new player and I got wiped on turn 3 by the other 3 players ganging up on me. Needless to say, the Raggadragga player proceeded with wiping the rest of the board.

You guys said it in another video but reconsidering your commander is an option. The example they used was a Gruul Landfall deck: Omnath Locus of Rage will draw a lot of attention but Mina and Denn probably won't do so as egregiously.

Managing your own threat is one of the most advanced commander skills there are, and am still trying to figure it out with a Goad deck that I've been messing with for year. It started as a Gahiji Honored One deck where the plan was to arm my opponents with tokens with things like Sylvan Offering and Hunted Troll. What I found was that some players would end up attacking me with those tokens instead of my opponents (despite Gahiji being out) because they didn't like the added firepower to the board. I've since abandoned the Hunted Troll type cards and changed commanders to Kitt Kanto, but still find that people target Kitt Kanto even though I'm improving their own attacks. It's been frustrating because I've always wanted the deck to fly under the radar by being relatively innocuous. I've started to transition into more of a token generating strategy instead of a "help my opponents fight each other" strategy (e.g., cut Combat Calligrapher, cut Agitator ant, which each tended to backfire and be used against me) so that it may be better able to stand up to some of the heat that it generates. But sometimes being a problem on purpose is fun. For those times I bring Xenagos God of Revels where I expect to be the arch enemy; I have to when any turn that starts with Xenagos out could be someone else's last. I'm reminded of Richard from Commander Clash. He usually plays something seemingly dumb like kithkin tribal or skeleton tribal, but also has the best win rate, in no small part do to being the best at managing his threat generation at the table.

I've been trying out both commander and cedh and honestly I've been dealing with this a ton, since I tried winota. And like daaamn people were hard aggroing me, which makes sense, but a slightly unoptimized deck and player felt like my deck was not the play, so I decided to build something else. Similar in Reggie commander, where when playing torens, even though it and Matilda was so much value to me when out together, but so many people just were sorta dismissive of it until much too late lol

for the boots and greeves: yes if you go to equip and they have removal in response that sucks, but on the flip side if they don't have removal then your guy is now protected and they now need removal for the equipment and your creature. Not using the boots or greaves at all just means that they can use the removal as soon as they draw it.

I actually just emailed a challenge about Nethi and went to build a Shelob, Child of Ungoliant deck. So far, the data is shaping up to be spider tribal with a heavy emphasis on fight and lure spells to throw them at enemy creatures and make delicious food as a result. With all of these self-targeting spells complimenting our heavy creature package it seems the perfect place for a Season of Growth! We'll get tons of incidental scry off creatures entering, and draw cards off any fights, lures, or protection spells we utilize. Also the 5% of people playing Spider Umbra are funny even though it doesn't really synergize but they'd get a boon from the Season of Growth.

When playing with my Thrasios/Ravos deck I have to make a point that Thassa’s Oracle and Ad Nauseum are not included in my deck or I would be arch-enemy before I played a land.

the reason prison affects aren't as bothersome is because they only penalize you if you attack that one player, so you can just attack the other three without any problems, so they don't prevent you from playing the game like stax pieces do, they just incentivize you to focus your game plan elsewhere where it'll be unencumbered.

I run a sheoldred/scriptures deck allot atm that gets so much hate, but I always tell people that I know its coming and I'm good with being hated out it's the nature of that sort of deck. (I also run tegrid and sir conrad and mesmeric orb so I can often bait out hate till I can stick one of the three)! I find its all about being aware of the reaction your deck will get and trying to taylor it so both you and others have fun! (Like you said) Also bringing a much less evil deck (recently the food and friends precon) aswell helps me soothe sore egos when sheoldred pops off.

Funny thing about the Garruk vs 3 separate draws. You invested 3 cards into drawing 5. Sure you'll keep drawing off the idol, but you got slightly less advantage than the Garruk player did. That said the point is still valid. People don't notice incremental effects that much, unless it's chip damage that doesn't matter. They'll tend to get counter aggressive if you chip a few life early.

the part about players is so true. When your reputation is to have efficient crazy decks that can combo off, people will get tricked once or twice, but then you'll start playing 3 vs 1 at the start of each games. But that is specially dangerous if you play with players with different deck power. If your way of having fun is to play strong optimised deck, you can't force your friends to play better decks, but don't expect to have a fighting chance if they gang up on you.

I felt this whole episode. I don’t really care much for commander, I’m more of a “dabbler” as in “I keep a deck around because I want to play magic and sometimes commander is all that’s available”. My only deck right now is Chatterfang, and it’s a major feels bad. I haven’t sat down at a table without being the archenemy once and I only had one commander before it. It’s a mix of everything here: I didn’t realize the heat that dang squirrel brings, I went off on my first outing and KO’d the whole table (purely by luck because I’m still learning commander), and I have a reputation from pioneer for building villainous decks (current tinker is mill). I try to take it in stride, but at the same time my options are to tune the deck to be more vicious or find another commander, and tbh I like the way the deck is now. It’s a weird spot to be in, I either need to tune it up so I can handle the pressure or I play it like it is and deal with almost never I tapping with anything. Definitely on me to figure out though. I might eliminate all of the combos and just go full time squirrel typal, think that’s more the vibe I want anyway.

I wish there was a mesmeric orb but just for yourself. Everyone hates being milled but it’s also the best self mill effect

I have to say that I love playing Nekusar since I've known the list you upped the average. Is like do nothing all the game and be the punching ball or win the game on turn six with Nekusar on the command zone 😂 All of it playing casual, boards that are set at power level 6ish sometimes 7. Is the only Commander that makes me have fun even when the whole board focuses me 😂

Have been considering building a Hinata deck but am thinking along these lines. Also had to adjust my Kruphix deck massively. Making it weaker means it wins more. Playing any creature with Annihilator means I have a massive target on my face.

I feel like the way I built my nemata deck does kind of fit into that although it does need abit more tuning, it’s goal is keep the board empty

"We play creatures to keep them on the battlefield not to just die immediately" Disagrees in JUND* my battlefield is just a conveyor belt connected to a dumpster

Big second on that Challenge from Rachel. It only takes Octavia getting Swords'd once for you to switch from Lier to Gale, Waterdeep Prodigy.

My big ah-ha moment for me was when I played Phyrexian Vindicator in my mono-white equipment deck. I played that with a couple of swords and Swiftfoot Boots in play already and 3 pairs of eyes swung over to me. 😅

Ideal withdrawing attention in my vorinclex monsters Raider deck by reveling in it and dying in a blaze of glory. I'm big I'm scary and everyone knows it they quake in their boots and all arise to defeat the arch enemy, so I lose constantly smile.

Something that was not mentioned, having a lot of mana will get you targeted not just spells; People logically assume that you are going to do something with it. I can have nothing on the board in my Muldrotha deck, but the recursive ramp draws so much hate…

so as far as commanders that draw attention, I have a Ramos, Dragon Engine deck that is incredibly strong when Ramos is on the field, because Ramos gives the deck lots of mana and is a voltron piece to kill my opponents, but the deck doesn't do a whole lot without him on the battlefield. Are there any alternate win-conditions that would make sense to put in a multi-color matters deck like Ramos?

Seconding Valakut Exploration: I use it with Ghyrson and it's amazing.

I like how my Dimir reanimator deck uses all 3 cards shown in the thumbnail lol

I think incidental milling fits the category of drawing more aggro than it deserves. I play Anowon, The Ruin Thief as my Rogue commander, and people react so heavily to the milling, but it legitimately isn't threatening. Anowon mills on damage, so you will die to damage before you die to mill, but the milling freaks people out. I think people see mill as card disadvantage, when it really isn't.

😅 I found out about "player removal" the hard way when I played Mesmiric Orb. Lol

I've been practicing my evil laugh for two situations: when I overtly embrace being archenemy, and when I've been subtly deflecting (as per this vid) and have been found out.

Maelstrom Wanderer is an example for me wanting player removal because it cant be dealt with.

I'm on Joey's side when it comes to Mesmeric Orb. I like milling myself because I like seeing all my cards, whether or not I play them. It's the reason I built Grolnok when it came out.

I played krrik this one time and this was the actual scenario on our table Turn 1: me: play land sol ring pass player 2: play mountain vandalblast targetting sol ring. pass player 3: play swamp, play dark rit, sol ring with floating 2, small pox. pass player 4: play forest, casting sol ring, casting arcane signet, cast exploration play 2nd land for turn. pass Still took the one cause I top decked my mana crypt but dang was it a hard fought match...

People who like to win are eventually drawn to strategies and wincons that are hard to stop. 1) Winning from the hand where permanent removal is useless to stop the wincon is a common one, counter-spells or stax effects are the only defense (ex. Thassa's Oracle + Demonic Consultation or infinite combos with Reiterate). 2) highly redundant strategy that can power through lots of interaction. Think Godo, Bandit Warlord and tons of ramp to get to the mana needed resolve the commander and fetching/equipping Helm of the Host. Or Sidisi, Undead Vizier as commander to assemble and, if needed, rebuild a combo. 3) commanders that snowball very hard and build up a game-deciding resource advantage very quickly (ex. Chulane, Korvald, or Prosper). Those people either gravitate to high-power/cEDH or they find that in their social EDH pods opponents will tend to not enjoy playing against any of those strategies and will unite against them and the happiness of the group suffers unless the other players enjoy archenemy power balance.

I was playing my Moritte-Elf Mass Duplicate deck the other day. I had already duped my elf lords a few times, then I dropped my Unnatural growth, and duped it with moritte. Earned the ire for the next few games lol.

Something else to consider if you play a card that's drawing a lot of fire is assessing the table and seeing if there's anyone you're NOT drawing hate from. If something comes down on your side of the board and you're suddenly the archenemy, then yeah, obviously you've just played something dangerous. But if you put something down and only one or two people are gunning for you, then that's an opportunity. Wheel and deal with the people that don't find you threatening, because maybe it'll let your threat stick around longer by talking them out of using removal. Maybe you'll make a deal and be able to remove the player(s) that are all eyes on you with help from the other person/people at the table. You just never know.

Haven't even finished the video, but this screams my Kaalia deck. Just having Kaalia as a commander puts a massive target on my back. To compensate, I play pretty heavy stax. Including completely locking the board so I'm the only one who can play anything.

As the resident Mill and Wheels player at my LGS, I am very familiar with the amount of attention that a mill card like Mesmeric Orb accrues. Its one of my favorite cards and its in almost every one of my Mill Decks. As well as cards like Windfall and Jace's Archivist, how they just bring so much attention to me. It's unfortunate when I drop somthing like a Ruin Cab down turn 1 and then someone drops a Birds of Paradise or Esper Sentinel and my crab gets Bolted instead of the other two. All because Mill is more "annoying" than the much more powerful cards. I've found that people will take more offense to you milling 5 cards away or windfalling their hand than dome-ing them for 10-15 life. Something that I'd like to point out that Joey brings up at 14:15 is that wheels/windfall effects are SUPER good are distuping your opponets plans. People always say that they are bad because you give 21 cards to your opponets, but they always fail to forget the huge distruption to their plans that you've given them. If they are so bad then why do I suddenly become enemy no1. When I cast Windfall? But when it comes to cards that draw my all my ire even if they aren't the strongest thing on the board, Gravepact and Dictate of Erebos type cards will make me focus you every time. I find them to be infuriating to play against because they make it so easy to lock the rest of the table out of the game. It’s ether play your hand and watch it be sacrificed or hold and do nothing while you try to draw an answer.

@abluedragon78

Жыл бұрын

As a muldrotha player who has literally 1 non permanent card in the deck, so your windfall was almost pure upside. Because it was annoying, you still made me redo my plans so I return the favor.

@Calvimh10

Жыл бұрын

@@abluedragon78 lol. It was a ritorical question. Your responce is exactly why I always argue that windfalls/wheels are good.

Building Torbran prison, you basically have to just accept that you will be the arch enemy.

I'll say the eldrazie or praetors well maybe slivers also get the most attention for creature types.

@Skyfysh

Жыл бұрын

I have a colourless Eldrazi tribal deck and I can attest that, regardless of what else is at the table, I’m usually considered the primary threat.

@subpump2823

Жыл бұрын

​@robertfisher9553 nice. I also have a similar deck. I can't wait for the commander master deck to come out. So many new good upgrades I bet!

@Skyfysh

Жыл бұрын

@@subpump2823 Same. My deck focuses on doubling triggered abilities, and copying a double cascade trigger could be devastating card advantage. So like you I’m pretty excited to see what else the deck has. The idea of waste reprints is even kind of exciting.

@mofomiko

Жыл бұрын

I love how vorinclex went from most oppressive, to threatening but situational, to the least bad of the bunch

@Skyfysh

Жыл бұрын

@@mofomiko May be because of how removal has evolved overtime. Stuff like Path to Exile or Assassins Trophy. It sucks to be down that mana next turn, but I guess not as much as having someone untap with Vorinclex.

I got confused when Matt said adding salty cards to your deck would result in an unsavoury situation.

Yuriko always seems harmless until the entire table takes 10 damage each off 1 trigger followed by 3 extra turns. Player removal also works in the arch enemy's favor.

I've played against a guy who made a hug deck with Kenrith as the commander. Lol

I recently saw a Syr Konrad card in person, and i was so irritated about it not looking like Joey

I went to the twitch page but unfortunately couldn't find any games with Syr Konrad.

I love being the problem, as it indicates that I'm usually having fun. :) Who cares about winning, do the thing!! Timmah!

@theearwyrm6105

Жыл бұрын

Lol, I couldn't agree more! Let them suffer as they take me down, I delight in their torment!

@aeorling

Жыл бұрын

@@theearwyrm6105 Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, hear the lamination of their women! yes, yes, Lamentations.

@JonReid01

Жыл бұрын

I was going to say the same thing. When you expect to be the threat it forces you to build with responses and interaction. Bring it onnnnnn

@aeorling

Жыл бұрын

@@JonReid01 Yes! Magical Christmas land goes out the window.

@Neyheshi

Жыл бұрын

It feels good to be the threat in the open with my aggro dragon deck. Im the one that makes deals and when I become arch enemy after getting my board how I like it, the win is that much sweeter

I would challenge the stats on Leyline of Singularity, in 0% of decks and shuts down token, including treasure and cloning nonsense

Tell the person using the valakut ping for challenge the stats to also use spitfire lagac and tunneling geopede! Both ping everyone for 1 when a land is played too

Considering my name is a translation of Odysseus from he great Odessey.... Never have I felt unsulted and flatter while hearing an intro 😅😂

I manage being focused by NOT being able to be focused. With Goad. ALL the Goad.

I would argue that slivers turn heads quicker than praetors. I've been unalived many times just for bringing the deck to the table.

Probably been said, but the Valakut combo hits EACH opponent for three, where Pinnacle is targeted.

I build my decks in a way that definitely avoids cards that draw peoples' attention. I like niche and synergistic cards, so when I first started playing with my friend group, I was rarely being interacted with. Rhystic Studies always has to go before Mentor of the Meek, right? Now they all recognize how I build decks and are much more proactive about making sure the gears of the deck don't spin unhindered.

I embrace it. When I play with my friends they often joke that the one who kills me wins the game.

Jin is really fun when you vile duplication him too lol

Feels like 50% of the games I play with random's I end up getting at least one person who doesnt understand threat assessment and target me when there is someone else on the board with a more threatening board state

I don't try to cast myself in a positive light during the game. I'm here to destroy everyone lol

I like aggro decks, too; however, I do not believe propaganda nor ghostly prison are negative. I mean, if you know you need to attack people to win, then answers to those things should be in the deck. If I'm playing a slow durdly deck, then those are how I don't die...

Konrad is a fun card on my lord xander the collector because i usually throw in a maddening cacophony or a cut your losses and everyone just dies lmao

Recomendations for something to replace Expropriate in an Elminster deck? Something game endy would be nice but i cant think of anything.

@jamesbeer1656

Жыл бұрын

I use Approach of the second sun as a backup plan

@mrTjstephens1

Жыл бұрын

Do you want the turn aspect or the gain control of permanents? There are no cards i can think of that do both of those on the same card Reigns of power is good for controlling an opponents board for one turn and time stretch can give you extra turns. Overtaker can take control of one creature.

@dizzynarutofan100

Жыл бұрын

@mrTjstephens1 Really just a lest salty win con. I have time stretch, I don't need any extra turns more

@dizzynarutofan100

Жыл бұрын

@@jamesbeer1656 That's my primary usually.

@nicholasbruce4124

Жыл бұрын

Starlight Spectacular or Cathar Crusade lol

I built Prime Speaker Vannifar before i knew it reputation. I dont play Protein Hulk or any other bananas and it still got hard targeted because i did so much each turn with her out and it looked spooky.

My pod's policy is to always target the 5-color Commanders first because they always have the most insane combos. 😂😂

The ultimate attention drawing card hands down has to be Planar Bridge. It itself isn't threatening, but everyone gets terrified of what you're gonna cheat out of your deck for free.

@zackkelley2940

Жыл бұрын

Do you mean The Prismatic Bridge? Because Planar Bridge is REALLY expensive to actually use.

@hasechoward2928

Жыл бұрын

@@zackkelley2940 if you're playing ramp its not bad. Regardless of viability, if you see the card you're gonna try to blow it up

@zackkelley2940

Жыл бұрын

@@hasechoward2928 You SAID Planar Bridge.... which is an artifact that costs 6 to get out and 8 to activate. I'm fairly sure you MEANT Prismatic Bridge... which is the enchantment that gives you a free creature/planeswalker on your upkeep. Planar Bridge I could care less about. Prismatic Bridge I WILL indeed be blowing up.

@hasechoward2928

Жыл бұрын

@@zackkelley2940 no, I play Planar Bridge. Don't assume.

@zackkelley2940

Жыл бұрын

@@hasechoward2928 I'm not, but you did say FREE. An 8 mana activation isn't that. Reduced potentially, but not free.