Another reason is that the standard and cowboy bowline have slightly different characteristics. They're about the same if they're loaded "properly" as loops, for example if you use them around a tree. But if you grab the loop right under the knot, on the side of the loop where you have the working end, and pull against the standing end, then the standard bowline is better. This is because the cowboy cowboy bowline is just like a left-handed / "wrong" sheetbend if loaded in this manner. And if you cross-load the loop, then the cowboy is slightly better than the standard bowline (but still not great, so if you're expecting cross-loading, an anti-bowline like the cossack or eskimo would be better).

The Prohaska bowline: Quite a while ago, a German school for tree work in Munich suggested using the "Prohaska bowline" on their web site. See Abb.4 baumkletterschule.de/kletterblatt/archiv/2011/der-prohaska-palstek "Although the knot was primarily developed for alpinism, it has also proven to be very useful for tree work, clearing and felling." See also de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palstek#Prohaska-Palstek "Because the bowline turned out to be not good enough as a rope knot, Heinz Prohaska developed this cross-loadable bowline variant in 2008."

@stephanddd

Жыл бұрын

The Prohaska was new to me, thanks. Also check out Scott's locked bowline, and the End Bound Single Bowline (EBSB) for a truly bomb-proof option (if you're opposed to the retraced figure 8 for some reason)

And, what happens if you try to "yosemity" your "cowbow bowline"?

@jbbolts

Жыл бұрын

That's what I'm looking for as well.

@TysonSommer-DFWCP

9 ай бұрын

@@jbbolts & @pear7777, I found this video because I googled the same thing. I think I found a way to do it and I'm sure I'm not the first, but I'm having a hard time finding anyone else who's done it this way and I don't know if it's just another knot under another name because I'm not a knot expert. One thing I know for sure is you can't "yosemite" your cowboy bowline the same way as a standard one because it can very easily slip out and fail. I think I found a good and stable way to "yosemite" the cowboy though. Basically, assuming a cowboy bowline situated in front of you with the loop above the knot and the tail end on the left, you run the tail end over the knot and loop towards the right, then pass it back through the bight along with the standing end. So the standing end passes behind the right side of the main loop and through the bight like a normal cowboy bowline, while the tail end runs in front of the right side of the main loop but back through the bight in the same manner as the standing end. It appears to be very stable and unties just as easily as a normal bowline. I'd be interested to see if anyone else has done it like this and/or if there are any problems with it. I'm not a knot expert, so I could be missing something. I can't seem to find anything about a tied-off cowboy bowline on Google though.

@TysonSommer-DFWCP

9 ай бұрын

It also doesn't appear to have the same problem as the regular bowline yosemite tie-off where dressing it out of order can cause it to collapse into something else. If you do happen to pull the tail end to tighten the knot first, it will slip out of the cowboy bowline form, but as soon as you put a load on the standing end, it slips right back into the proper cowboy bowline with the tie-off

@TysonSommer-DFWCP

9 ай бұрын

And after messing with it even more, it appears that even if you do take tension off the standing line and put tension on the tail end for some reason, even though it slips into another configuration, it remains very sturdy. You can bounce back and forth putting tension on the standing line and the tail end and it'll continue to roll back and forth from the tied off cowboy bowline to the other knot and they won't slip or come undone.

A note of caution concerning the Yosemite bowline from www.netknots.com/rope_knots/yosemite-bowline "Pull on the standing line and the loop first." "If you were to tighten the knot with the working end first you actually lose the original bowline and the knot is something completely different and is not a secure knot at all!" The additional turn might slip through the initial rabbit hole of the bowline instead of staying behind it. And that could get you in trouble. See kzread.info/dash/bejne/Y5iel7tsmJSndaw.html www.saferclimbing.org/en/blog/risk-of-yosemite-bowline-knot

@JEEDUHCHRI

3 жыл бұрын

After reviewing both videos. In your linked video he seems to tie his Yosemite tie off differently. Bringing the tail through the left side of the loop (from camera’s perspective). Our guy here seems to take the tail and send it up the right side of the loop. Any thoughts? I only ask from a stand point of trying to understand best practice. No disrespect meant.

@SurfingThemWaves

3 жыл бұрын

@@JEEDUHCHRI Yeah, I noticed that also. But I wouldn't go that route finishing off the Yosemite on the other side. I find it is better to stick with the conventional way: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yosemite_bowline The German Alpine Club calls the Yosemite bowline Bulin 1.5 (bowline 1.5). Same tie-off: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulin_1.5 The danger of making a error is a little bit far-fetched. So, perfectly fine as being presented above. As s.o. cited on that video that I linked: A knot is never ‘nearly right,’ it is either exactly right, or hopelessly wrong.” - Clifford Ashley

@JEEDUHCHRI

3 жыл бұрын

@@SurfingThemWaves thanks for the input.