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@DemonetisedZone

Жыл бұрын

What an excellent video 👏😊

@christiandauz3742

Жыл бұрын

Imagine if the Soviets created the Internet back in the 1920s

@grumpybollox7949

Жыл бұрын

ground news sounds good but they havent made any progress in about an year ive been using their app, its okay but sometimes it feeds facebook level of BS, ucranistan propaganda websites and so on

@rocketman1058

Жыл бұрын

the military and space technology that USSR seemed to be successful in the beginning came a a result of "acquiring" the Nazi engineers that set the foundations in these fields, in particular for space. I can't suggest a good book about this as Russians keep their early history of rocket engineering still classified, however, I can recommend a channel of a Soviet rocket engineer who goes in depth about this topic on his channel, in Russian though.

@MasayaShida

Жыл бұрын

@@john_in_phoenix ah yes good to see a fellow powerpoint enjoyer

I was once directly involved in the "OGAS" project close to the end of the entire USSR. The part I was involved in, was called "АСУ Народное Образование" or "OGAS Education". The key problem that was discovered in my time there can be summarized as "garbage in - garbage out" problem. It was very clear that all the people involved in the management were trying to cheat on providing the data entry to achieve some advantage for themselves. One example of that was the total area of the floors and walls specified in the measurements of schools were far too much. Managers wanted to get more supplies, so they were tweaking the data a bit to get by. The same was happening at all levels, I'm afraid.

@phanx0m924

Жыл бұрын

What would be the point of that? To embezzle building/supply money for themselves?

@AlexthunderGnum

Жыл бұрын

@@phanx0m924 There was a shortage of supplies. The point was to get more supplies to exchange the surplus for other supplies that were in deficit. Embezzlement was one of the points, but it wasn't the main point. There were people who had genuine care for their schools. They were trying to work the system. The root of the problem was in the centralized planning that was incapable of balancing the requirements with the means of production, I reckon.

@guysabol8743

Жыл бұрын

WE had GI-GA problem in the 80s, it was resolved when Xerox told us of how they had structured their own emails, chat and basic computer modes. ergo now in each PC and lappy made there is one folder named XEROX now you can seewhy.

@echo88charlie

Жыл бұрын

Id be thrilled to hear more.

@AlexthunderGnum

Жыл бұрын

@@echo88charlie Just watch the news. Everything is there now.

The more video I watch on the soviet economy the more I realize that the main advantage the US economy had was their willingness to share game changing military technology with their civilian economy. Which created vast synergy and efficiencies and many positive feedback loop. Sharing really is caring and the US culture being able to share development with a wider swath of society really is the secret sauce that won them the cold war.

@POHHS

Жыл бұрын

​@Derek the idea of integrating the price signal as a "Sensory organ" of the command economy was on the table for the cyberneticists/economic planners, socialism with a market could still be socialism, its just that the soviets and US were at the extremes of that choice instead of a synthesis of those options.

@POHHS

Жыл бұрын

@@MrWolfstar8 I fail to see how a price signal used by workers, in tandem with an autonomous resource distribution network maintained by workers, somehow cant be in line with socialism, economic controls operated by the workers. The soviet system, as you state with its beurocracies, is as far from worker control as the west was under capitalistic economies.

@Digo-eu

Жыл бұрын

@@MrWolfstar8 all we needed was yet another definition of socialism. Thank you for that. Basing an argument on an unorthodox definition does not make for a good argument. For an example of socialism that does not fit your initial definition, we need only look at China, as you mentioned yourself.

@ihl0700677525

Жыл бұрын

Yep. Fact is, politicians and bureaucrats are really no better than investors and corporate management. They are just as greedy and corruptible. Giving them all the power in the state/society including the power to use coercion/violence (i.e. complete political, economic, and military power) is *bad idea.* Decentralized (free) market system where consumer directly vote with their wallet is far superior compared to a command economy.

@bfure1

Жыл бұрын

​@@MrWolfstar8 Rules around electronic cars are nothing close to the Soviet command economy unless you are being deliberately obtuse. Regulations are not a command economy, the US will not be dictating how or what cars will be made, and will not be assigning production numbers or materials to manufacturers. In fact, the reason it won't lead to a collapse is exactly because the government is relatively hands off, only stepping in to ensure the regulations are met.

Soviets had excellent popular science books on computer-related subjects even in 1950s. But even though those books described in often fairly accurate details how people would use Internet in the future (dial up, search engines, electronic books, machine translation, etc), in reality, even the ordinary telephone network in the USSR remained in a sorry state at least into late 1970s, if not longer -- many people did not have a phone, and switchboard operators were still connecting long-distance calls.

@duckpotat9818

Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately for them the Soviet Union was a bureaucracy and not much of a technocracy. If the technocrats had won then it might have gone differently

@cogoid

Жыл бұрын

@@duckpotat9818 I am not sure if this is the reason for the failure of the USSR. At least formally, almost all of the top management in the USSR had engineering degrees. If you look at the orders issued by the central committee of the communist party, sometimes they concerned ridiculously minute technicalities -- like what kind of rivets to use in some rocket. Seriously.

@raylopez99

Жыл бұрын

Known in patent law (which our host should do an episode on, though I'm 100% sure he'll butcher it, as everybody does) as "constructive reduction to practice" (that is to say, a "paper invention") as opposed to an "actual reduction to practice" (actually building the paper invention, which is often easier said than done). For this reason I propose for patent reform separate patents for actual and for constructive reduction to practice, unless it's trivial to do both (which experts can determine). It's one thing to say you can shoot a satellite to the moon, as Jules Verne wrote about well before Goddard's rockets, and quite another to actually make this work (you need metallurgy that can withstand incredible forces, and yes, they're working on such a rail gun for launching things into NEO).

@WellBattle6

Жыл бұрын

@@duckpotat9818 Even technocrats would probably end up preventing new things from being adopted. Imagine mandating a switch to a unified standard at the cost of $10 billion and then within 1 year of completion the standard becomes obsolete. Naturally as an government official you would be under so much pressure to not spend another $10 billion to upgrade right away.

@AlexKarasev

Жыл бұрын

​@@cogoid They were right to concern themselves with such specifics, because without (and sometimes despite) such directives, whichever rivet sat in the closest drawer, was going in. USSR has given me a wonderful childhood (free from monetary concerns and violence and excess sexualisation or envy) - one I won't be able to buy my own kids for a million dollars. I love that country dearly. And yet, and yet, let me tell you this: space, military, sports, the arts, and sciences, hoovered up top 15% of all cadre. All of those fields are "icing on the cake" / "force multiplier" type - they fundamentally enhance the effect & reach of an otherwise healthy economy. The leftover folks who were left to actually make that economy work, were okay to mediocre. The same constraint exists in capitalism (read "Good to Great") except (1) there's an economic equilibrium among the fields, making talent distribution more organic and efficient, and (2) even more importantly, there's a far steeper economic gradient from carrot to stick vs. under socialism, and that made the middle 80% of society more productive. The top 10% of workers are driven by passion and self-actualization (Neil Armstrong landing on the Moon was a government employee paid not very much), and bottom 10% (of ANY society), using your example, will put the wrong rivet in half the time, and not install it properly - no matter how much you pay them. So these 20% of folks perform equally in socialism & capitalism. But that remaining middle 80% - capitalism makes them work their tails off, whereas under socialism they're coasting. And yes under capitalism they're often less happy, yes their kids grow up distant & often broken, yes capitalism's "grow or die" mantra isn't at equilibrium with the environment BUT in the 1960s through 1990s it was the economic engine that'd handily out-competed socialism. Naturally, with the socialist threat removed, the fat middle class was no longer needed, and hence it's being divested of as we speak.

It failed because it used cccp/ip instead of tcp/ip In cccp/ip, client can't own static address. It must be assigned by dhcccp server

@kerryedavis

Жыл бұрын

repeating my other comment: In Soviet Russia, Internet routes YOU!

@nicholasvinen

Жыл бұрын

They did have very good Deep Proletariat Inspection technology though.

@armanbath

Жыл бұрын

@@nicholasvinen I wish I was smart enough to understand these jokes

@ElRel

Жыл бұрын

Groan!

@sidviscous5959

Жыл бұрын

@@armanbath that is unfortunate because it was a good one.

My father worked for an US Army weapons lab. I remember, in my early teens, him telling me that he was able to access computers all over the country. He didn't talk much about work because it was, of course, classified. He did expose me to a lot of the electronics with manuals and parts that were commercial. It was only years later, when I was working on massively networked systems (I actually worked on the GE system you mentioned), that I recalled his comments.

@commenteroftruth9790

10 ай бұрын

you have cool lore

@louisgiokas2206

10 ай бұрын

@@commenteroftruth9790 Thanks.

@newworldordernyus

7 ай бұрын

That's how the internet started, it was a military network and since there was no commercial access specially outside the country, it worked well and secure to hacking. US should've maintained control of the internet, Obama's handover of the internet to a UN front organization was treasonous. That's why we can keep up with the cyber attacks, we could've easily punished the abusers by cutting them off the internet if we still had all the keys

@Anyakranz

3 ай бұрын

Cool asf man

One rudiment of this endeavor was the network of ЦНТИ (TsNTI) - Centers of Scientific Technical Information scattered across the USSR. As a university student in the 1990s I briefly worked in one of them. By the 1980s they were mainly equipped with IBM clones connected mostly through dialup, rarely with fiber-optic. They had by then lost their economic purpose and basically became imitational bodies, creating fake jobs for the director and "engineer" cronies. By late 1980 and early 1990s they mostly made money by renting out their premises to various computer and electronics shops. By mid 1990s most were gone, their buildings embezzled through various corrupt schemes. But they did in a way contribute to the internet adoption in Russia.

@nothere4089

Жыл бұрын

Heya, where can i find primary source papers on soviet computations projects? Do you have like a public access database?

@JohnDobak

Жыл бұрын

God damn even buildings getting embezzled over in the USSR. That's on another level.

@Unbrutal_Rawr

Жыл бұрын

@@JohnDobak No, that's capitalist Russia/Ukraine of the 90s. Embezzling of formerly USSR state assets was called "privatization".

@ilovecops5499

Жыл бұрын

"internet" is a local network with non routable IP numbers. Try again.

@xinniethep00h

Жыл бұрын

@@ilovecops5499 AkShUaLLy 🤓

Soviet technology is quite interesting. In the USA, we were always working to create new types of electronics, while the soviets were still making the best out of vacuum tubes and germanium transistors. Today, many technicians are buying Soviet surplus parts to fix their vintage electronics.

@codaalive5076

11 ай бұрын

@@clydeblair9622 Lots of modern high quality equipment serving music industry is using either old stocks or newly produced vacuum tubes. Russia is the only country in the world still capable of making high quality tubes, others can't produce them in sufficient numbers, quality.

@clydeblair9622

11 ай бұрын

@@codaalive5076 Supposedly tubes are less susceptible to nuclear blackout.

@codaalive5076

11 ай бұрын

@@clydeblair9622 Nuclear blackout is what? Certain industry can't do without high quality tubes Russia is making and nothing can replace them since old stocks are pretty much depleted. There are other manufacturers with inferior quality.

@clydeblair9622

11 ай бұрын

@@codaalive5076 Nuclear blackout - Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_blackout

@commenteroftruth9790

10 ай бұрын

@@clydeblair9622 and so for that sole purpose they were so heavily produced and used for their technology? Was it just for that purpose, in preparation of nuclear war. Or is it just coincidental in regards to their intended purpose -- that being their limited and widely used technology?

Very interesting how many times the idea came up. Was seen as very promising. The goverment realized it would intefer with their personal power and wealth. And then shut it down. An exccellent example of some of the root issues of the USSR

@zoladkow

Жыл бұрын

root issues of humanity actually 🤷

@sympathiser_of_Germans_in_40s

Жыл бұрын

What else do you expect when the people have given absolute power to a single entity. Some people lack the basic understanding of how simple human emotions like greed work.

@freddy4603

Жыл бұрын

@@zoladkow y'know, maybe others don't share the sentiment, but I've gotten quite tired of the "humanity is this and that" perspective. Phrases like "I'm loosing faith in humanity" made sense to me, but the more I thought about it the less I agreed. Since pretty much all groups and societies often have wildly different social norms, social structures and cultures, its not very accurate or useful to attribute any trait to "humanity" outside of very basic statements. For your example, there's the obvious case of the US and their allies not having the same issue the Soviets had (at least when it comes to creating the internet). Aside from that, the thing that bothers me most is the possible implication of hopelessness, that humanity is cursed to have that trait. From what I've seen, such cynicism just isn't helpful - its not like there's a choice to not deal with our own faults. (kinda took a comment too seriously xd - but I wanted to formulate my thoughts on this)

@bomjahed

Жыл бұрын

(((berg)))

@unknowninfinium4353

Жыл бұрын

@@zoladkow Actually Socialism, arent the technological advancement happening in a capitalist society? Try reading some more...

Interestingly the Chileans did a similar computer controlled central economy during Allende presidency. That was the brainchild of a British computer engineer to run the Chilean copper mines in the 1970s.

@FriendsforFriendsUK

Жыл бұрын

I think you may be referring to Stafford Beer, who wrote at length on cybernetics. His work is extensive and impressive but rather hard to follow. His design for information flow helped the Allende government to deal with a national transport strike, until the government was ousted with the probable help of the CIA. The information model he developed has similarities with the National Intelligence Model used today by UK police. A video would be great, but to actually get to grips with Stafford Beer's work and thought would take a year or more of study.

@wyleong4326

11 ай бұрын

Apparently that system helped improved the economy, in ways it was able to calculate and disperse and plan their way out of the oncoming inflation. I read in an article somewhere. But soon after, Allenade was brought down and the system was retired.

@FriendsforFriendsUK

11 ай бұрын

@@wyleong4326 That figures. The system is fairly general. Allende was brought down by Pinochet's military coup, with a background of American opposition to the Allende government.

@woobiefuntime

10 ай бұрын

@@FriendsforFriendsUK And a Nazi church

@Animalis_Mundana

9 ай бұрын

Plastic pills channel has a killer documentary on cybersocialism/cybersyn.

TCP/IP and the RFCs that standardized its development were the real genius behind DARPANET/ARPANET. Much of this came from research at Stanford and UCB in the 60's. Packet switching led to the development of ethernet systems and the infrastructure we know today. It is fascinating stuff, if a little bit tech-y.

@BungieStudios

Жыл бұрын

Stop. I read enough RFCs for today.

@stevebabiak6997

Жыл бұрын

IIRC, packet switching was from University of Hawaii.

@richardwulf1122

Жыл бұрын

@@stevebabiak6997 It was both Donald Davies and Larry Roberts that came up with the idea of packet switching, independently of each other mind you since Davies was at the time working for the British National Physics Laboratory and Roberts was working on ARPANET. You might be confusing in with the ALOHANET, a packet switching network that used radio transceivers for communication between nodes which was developed in Hawaii.

@Chris_at_Home

Жыл бұрын

None of it would have worked without a good communications infrastructure says a retired communications technician.

@mattiasthorslund6467

Жыл бұрын

I wonder if the Soviet networks used the same technologies or if they developed their own analogies to TCP/IP etc?

Glushkov was truly a Victor Frankenstein of Soviet science. The elderly Party leadership wasn't interested in OGAS (which frankly was unrealistic) but was very interested in his ideas of transhumanism and reaching immortality through progress in biology and computing. That would be the nice topic to cover.

@snapdragon6601

Жыл бұрын

Of course that would interest them the most, seeing how old they all were. 😆👍

@ilyatsukanov8707

Жыл бұрын

They were not interested in such things, except in some 80s Hollywood paranoid fantasy. This is more a topic of interest for the WEF overlords of today.

@sergiodeplata

Жыл бұрын

Actually, the first stage of OGAS named ASPR actually worked in late 80.

@retineyzer7906

Жыл бұрын

Imagine if USSR still existed, just how much technology we would have?

@mirroredvoid8394

Жыл бұрын

@@retineyzer7906 If you lived in the USSR in 2023. You would have just entered the early 2000s from a technological standpoint.

Thank you Asianometry, you are one of the few English-language channels that do justice to the old Soviet Union without resorting to tankie apologetics.

@KOTYAR1

Жыл бұрын

He even tries to pronounce names with correct emphasis. Foreigners living in Slavic countries often don't do that

@unknowninfinium4353

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, to many socialist apologist who think the deaths didnt happen.

@Hectico2257

Жыл бұрын

Damn it take my upvote! ❤️

@ilyatsukanov8707

Жыл бұрын

How is it doing justice when every video on the subject is literally titled "Why the Soviet/East German [insert topic] Failed"?

@oldnelson4298

Жыл бұрын

@@ilyatsukanov8707 He should tell the truth and do a video about the resounding success of the Soviet internet, right comrade?

Ironically, OGAS failed because of inter-factional disputes, whereas ARPANET succeeded on account of clear leadership structures and cooperation in government to get it done. So, what we expect is the 'capitalist' behavior and what is the 'socialist' behavior that we expect kind of got switched around, the same is the case with the Soviet Moonshot.

@RipOffProductionsLLC

10 ай бұрын

Similar "paradoxical" issues appeared in the command structures of the Axis powers when compared to the Allies. The authoritarian dictatorships had militaries filled with confusing byzantine chains of command, with destructive rivalry being common among higher-ups, and cooperation with other branches was sketchy at best, and coordination with their allies even less so. Meanwhile the democratic, free thinking, individualistic Allied nations had very clear chains of command(at least relatively, communication issues happened of course), and they even decided who would be in over all command when forces from separate nations were operating in the same place togeather.

@magicjuand

10 ай бұрын

i think a lot of this has to do with the differing scope between the two projects owing to the different views of the role of government. in the US, the govt is considered to play an important role in encouraging basic research, hence the vast public university system as well as ARPA, but not in implementing the results of this research into things everyday people use. that's the point of commercialization. thus, ARPANET was conceived as a research project first and foremost. there were some military applications, but for the most part, the task was about seeing if you could network together some computers. what networked computers could be used for would eventually be left to private industry. with such a limited scope, it's much easier to undertake a science-first approach that does not need to jump over big political hurdles. they made ARPANET happen and published some important protocols and that was it. in contrast, the Soviet system requires the all-encompassing approach that was discussed in the video. there is no other reservoir of innovation to take the ball and run with it, there is only the central authority that has to build the whole thing. so you end up with people whose careers are threatened and other people who see the opportunity to shift the project to their own goals and other people who object to some aspect or another, etc. etc.

@nilon5327

10 ай бұрын

​@@magicjuandSo basically decentralisation against centralisation. In a capitalist democratic society you let many entities carve out ideas and if some of them fail there's still a chance that one or two will be succesful. In an authoritarian system it's do or die for the central entity, so they either come up with the one genius idea or they mess it up completely. Almost no in between and the personal interest issues you mentioned are even added on top of that.

@concept5631

10 ай бұрын

With capitalism, corporations that have internal issues aren't successful/last long enough to be on the frontiers of ground breaking technology. This is an issue with not just command economies, but top-down governments as well.

@neilwu3912

10 ай бұрын

@@nilon5327 its even worse than that, if you're part of a particular clique in the Soviet bureaucracy, the fact that an amazing idea that benefits the country to a huge level happens to be an idea made by another clique, you have a very vested interest in making sure that idea never gets off the ground.

OGAS sounds very much like Chile's Project Cybersyn, the Salvador Allende era system (some of it computerized) to manage the Chilean economy that actually demonstrated some success until the September 1973 coup that deposed him.

@JonWallis123

Жыл бұрын

That was my immediate thought, too -- I did my MSc thesis on Stafford Beer's Viable System Model, which was the theoretical basis for the design of Cybersyn.

@2hotflavored666

Жыл бұрын

Except Chile had no chance of actually affording Cybersyn, it was a massive failure before the heroic coup.

@theoheinrich529

Жыл бұрын

@@2hotflavored666 of course the pinnochet child molster protector apologists spouts this

@bigyeet5857

Жыл бұрын

​@@2hotflavored666 Imagine defending a military dictator that disappeared thousands upon thousands.

@2hotflavored666

Жыл бұрын

@@bigyeet5857 Imagine defending a socialist dictatorship that did the exact same things the military dictatorship did but at least 10 times worse.

1956: one single computer costing 8 billion dollars save our lives 2023: 8 billion computers showing cat videos vasting our lives

"Imagine if the Soviets had had modern computing tech, they could have achieved their Communist Utopia..." *China has entered the Chat* "Oh."

@MrAsianPie

Жыл бұрын

💀

@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115

Жыл бұрын

They would have managed themselves to get scarcity of qbits.

@andersjjensen

Жыл бұрын

The difference being that in Russia some actually believed in communism. The Chinese "communism" was always, at every level of design, doctrine and implementation, about creating an elite that had an excuse for living in luxury while telling the peasants that this is what social justice looks like.

@MathewRenfro

Жыл бұрын

@@andersjjensen I respectfully disagree. It was the same both ways; For some folks in China who really do believe it, and the Soviet system was also about implementing dogma and doctrine, for the benefit of the elite to live in luxury off the poor. No need to take sides on this one

@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115

Жыл бұрын

@@MathewRenfro That's the endgame of all """revolutions""" g0yyim. The """Chosen Ones"""on top and the rest of people begging for crumbs, just as Lenin wrote.

This totally got me thinking about the possibility of a nearby parallel reality where there's a cybernetic Soviet Union pushing ahead with their own 'Big Red' centralised network to counter the capitalist 'Big Blue'. Their "socialist-network" connects USSR, Soviet Bloc, China, Korea and Vietnam.

@pandakekok7319

Жыл бұрын

I really wish the USSR got their computing industry on-par with the West. I'm no commie, but it would've been exciting. And while at it, maybe have an equivalent (but not clone) to the IBM PC as well. Now we get 4 dominant home microcomputers around the world: IBM PC from the U.S., NEC PC-98 from Japan, BBC Micro from the U.K., and whatever computer the Soviets make... I wonder if somebody has written an alternate history book about that

@ilyatsukanov8707

Жыл бұрын

@@pandakekok7319 There is an audio techno-opera about the Soviets creating an OGAS-style system called 2032: Легенда о несбывшемся грядущем ('2032: The Legend of the Unfulfilled Future'). Soviets had a clone for nearly every Western standard in the 1980s (IBM, IBM PC, Apple 2, PDP-11, ZX Spectrum, VAX and HP-2100). Unfortunately, yeah they were clones. A few years ago I watched the opinion of a guy who spent many years studying the topic, and he suggested that the alternative path the Soviets could have taken in computing could have been what we now think of as cloud-based - that is you would have a terminal at home and a series of very powerful computing centers you would connect to. The video is called "Альтернатива. О возможном пути развития ЭВМ в СССР" (there are no English subs but google translation might help get the gist).

@newworldordernyus

7 ай бұрын

Russia and China maintained very secretive intelligence sharing and communications cables networks even when China deceived Americans that they were the foe of the Soviet Union and a US ally. They were rivals but always considered the democratic USA as the biggest existential threat due to America's soft powers, such as the attractive idea of free society, vibrant and dominant pop culture, innovative economy and efficient productivity. What the CCP achieved had Americans hand over copies of their industrial and economic management, market system and technological and manufacturing knowhow while refusing to copy what made free enterprise model possible: classical liberalism. As a result as I predicted CCP china is going to move toward its communist roots where state once again owns and controls everything, that centralization is already happening and as a result tens of trillions in asset valuation is going to evaporate in China, starting with the ongoing real estate collapse that's going to ultimately make CCP everyone's landlord and therefore all real estate become public assets and worth no market value

@newworldordernyus

7 ай бұрын

​@@pandakekok7319 I think that would've saved them. Instead of a bunch of corrupt bureaucrats running the industries, computer algorithms would've been running them with greater efficiency and like an American conglomerate corporation like GE, Boeing, Ford, Amazon,... would run vast industries and enterprises. It wouldn't have solved their innovation disadvantages but certainly helped their productivity and efficiency of manufacturing.

@piotrmalewski8178

4 ай бұрын

Not possible because of inherent problems caused by centrally-planned economy and other of their ideas such as full employment policy. Those were the reasons why they couldn't develop their technology on pair with the West, but even if they did, it would not have achieved what they wanted it to do.

As for sources as someone who has a masters in history I really appreciate the research you do and these are some of the better videos that deal with such complex topics and make these videos more watchable than most. Even the best historians are not perfect, we by custom always end our intros with “all errors are my own.” It’s important to be humble in the face of the past. Keep up the good work.

@sfarrell71138

2 ай бұрын

Why are there errors? Is it tough to get the real story right?

@digitalrex5

2 ай бұрын

@@sfarrell71138 it can be.... I read a book once on the Breganza family who ruled portugal for much of its history and the author flat out states that there were few Portuguese language sources prior to the 19th century and what we know had to be pieced together from french and english sources. Also the past can be unpredictable with new evidence being found, debated, etc. Also never forget that 99% of history isn't recorded and is lost to time... every moment of every day for every person is history and what we are left is very little.

@sfarrell71138

2 ай бұрын

@@digitalrex5 interesting. Thats kinda what I thought. Seems like it would be fun to find and investigate history and what really went down. Nice-thanks for taking the time to answer.

This reminds me a lot of “We”, by Yevgeny Zamyatin, in the way people hoped technology would allow for the creation of utopia. A great book for anyone interested in revolutionary russia or dystopian fiction in general, especially because it was published in 1924 and written by an actual Bolshevik. Also it’s almost certain that Orwell borrowed heavily from it to write 1984.

@shekelmcfreckle

Жыл бұрын

Apparently Yev regretted how much the Communists idolized it and wanted to replicate it. 1984 has nothing on some of the stuff in there like prescribed life partners and the open sex requests 😬 yeesh

@missk1697

10 ай бұрын

"We" is perfect world

@krle7970

5 ай бұрын

@@missk1697heaven on earth….impossible

Never interfere with a man's fiefdom if you wish to keep your Party membership... Truly interesting video, I'd not known that this came "close" to happening in the USSR.

@Bialy_1

Жыл бұрын

USSR was trying to copy preaty much everything that USA was doing so where is the surprise? That first N device tested in USSR that the video is mentioning was an exact copy of American device, the factory that produced was also an exact copy of American factory, when they got satelite photos of that Russian complex the inteligence officerse were shocked that even the shape and relative positions of building was exactly the same as in Los Alamos...

@deniseproxima2601

Жыл бұрын

Have they now take the woman's out, who where holding the lines.

One key difference that presents itself from listen to this video is that in the Soviet union the main issue was control. OGAS was proposed as an overarching control mechanism and the objections to it were essentially that it was an overarching control mechanism that will compete with humans who wished to retain control. ARPANET was coming as I am standard, fundamentally about sharing information and not about control. My impression is that it was essentially created and constructive to see what could be done with it rather then furthering specific government policy objectives. After all I gather it was initially connecting universities not government entities right? The USA certainly has many critics, but the general psychology of American society and it's technology industries, is to develop ideas unimpeded by political ideology and then explore how they can be adapted to suit the needs and desires of society at large. If hypothetically we assume that there is some truth in that it is quite obvious why it never worked in the Soviet Union, where the national psychology and ideology is the near complete antithesis!

@user-ul9wy8fi9n

Жыл бұрын

You are wrong, the keyword is not control. A proper allocation of resources is what this system was planned for. You can even say that some kind of logistics from raw materials to the end consumer.

@eddievhfan1984

8 ай бұрын

@@user-ul9wy8fi9n That's a true statement. However, the Soviet economy was predicated on centralized control of who makes what where and who gets to buy it, and the stated prices for doing so. So by using OGAS to calculate, plan, and dictate the economy of the Soviet Union, it is by its very nature acting as a controller. And since that rational, automated control would render large chunks of the Soviet bureaucracy without power or influence (especially when they can't adjust figures and statistics to favor their continued necessity to the state apparatus), it was going to have opposition from those who actually wanted to keep their place of power in the system, however small or specialized it was. Even in American corporations, especially those with a large enough presence that sheer inertia can keep them going for a while, you will find that innovations and potentially beneficial tech get suppressed or fail to be developed because they would render a previously essential class of worker/manager/specialist/executive/etc. out of a job or diminished importance, and will fight to stay in power, regardless of the overall benefit.

God I love this channel. You produce the EXACT conent I'm interested in, never missing. Keep it up

@RainSnowHail

Жыл бұрын

HE LITERALLY NEVER MISSES

2:20 That's not what a "command economy" is. 2:25 Like a lot of people, you've confused "private property" with "personal property". 2:32 _That's_ what a command economy is.

@d3thkn1ghtmcgee74

Жыл бұрын

People are often unwilling to look at the difference because they think private property is personal property. That or they don't want to validate any kind of leftist view points...

@jonasthemovie

10 ай бұрын

Let me guess, real communism has never been tried?

OGAS would have quantified and tracked the means by which the Soviet leadership ran the Soviet economy. The materials they controlled were the very means of their power. To pass the tracking of those resources to computers would have taken away their power over those resources.

@voicelessglottalfricative6567

9 ай бұрын

Unfortunately a lot of the old Bolshevik ideals were phased out by that time.

Cool video @asianometry! I read the book Red Plenty by Francis Spufford, and towards the end, he briefly mentioned that there were efforts to digitalise production throughout the USSR like that. It's cool to hear more about it

@Olivman7

6 ай бұрын

Oh yeah, this video gave big flashes back to Red Plenty. It's interesting that the video talks about completely different people who still bumped into the exact same systemic issues.

Currently taking my PhD in cybernetics, but I did not know the role Sovjet cybernetics played in this story. Interesting and informative video

@zhan-iy3ms

12 күн бұрын

Please say more😀

I've really been enjoying your channel and the content. Hope you are able to keep going and doing well! Have a wonderful day and thank you for being you! 🍻🌎❤️🌮

You amaze me always with your choice of topics. Thank you for providing this wonderful content! :)

I'm a CS/philosophy student enamored by cybernetics. I'd love to see your take on Chile's Project Cybersyn, which I'm under the impression was developed farther than OGAS (at least, until Pinochet took over and destroyed it).

@matiasfpm

10 ай бұрын

But cybersyn was made on a hurry IIRC

@DendrilopisXaggro

2 ай бұрын

Cybersyn was never destroyed by Pinochet, simply because Cybersyn was never built in the allende government. To begin with, it was not even an electronic system, but the nodes communicated through telegraph-like machines. Secondly, those who proposed it had no idea what its purpose should be; some wanted it to direct industrial production, but the unionists were opposed to expropriated industries being managed by anyone other than themselves. Then, when the system could be put into "activity", it barely served to coordinate a few activities outside the capital of Santiago, activities which however had little relation to industrial production in Chile. Finally, Stafford Beer, the supposed "creator" of the Cybersyn project, acknowledges that he never created anything, but was simply a consultant hired by Allende, recognizing that at the end of the day the project was without any clear leadership or purpose. Cybersyn rather than representing an attempt by socialists to develop advanced technology (a belief that exists to this day), what it more accurately represents is the state bureaucracy of socialist government, and how it slows rather than helps technological advancement.

@Skythikon

2 ай бұрын

@@DendrilopisXaggro Interesting. Any chance you have a favorite book on the subject, or something you'd point me towards if I wanted to learn more?

@DendrilopisXaggro

2 ай бұрын

@@Skythikon There is a book called something like "la historia de la informatica en chile (1957 - 1999)" that included everything about cybernetics, computers, cybersyn, networks and cybercrime in Chile. It even talks about a failed attempt to manufacture cheap semiconductors in Chile (this was before there were even such factories in Asia), an episode that almost no modern historian has rescued. Unfortunately this is an old book from almost 25 years ago and apparently it is neither translated nor digitized anywhere, which is a pity because it is a very complete book but easy to read, and it includes very interesting information about old technologies in chile and also latinamerica. I am going to talk maybe someday with a publisher if it is possible that they can reprint it.

You never disappoint mate, keep up the good work! You're one of the few youtubers that always make me come back

I've been looking forward to a video that more closely talks about Soviet cybernetics ever since you mentioned them in your previous video!

They used to hit flies in outter space, now they can't even see the cardboard planes flying at a few hundred feet.

As always, another educational opportunity not to be missed. It is interesting to note that AI seems to be the next opportunity on the road to digital hierarchies that is slowly following some of the same idiosyncrasies that the Soviets faced with mainframe computers and networking.

@annilator3000

Жыл бұрын

AIs won't solve the fundamental problem of power dynamics within human institutions, and the way the economy is structured. Even if it clearly tells us what we have to do, humans take the decisions in the end, or don't take them.

@popquizzz

Жыл бұрын

@@annilator3000 excellent insight.

@endintiers

Жыл бұрын

Well, no. AI is being researched and furthered by millions of individuals to benefit 100s of thousands of organisations. I for example am working on object detection for game cameras, to identify and upload only 'interesting' frames. The problem? 'Define Interesting' 😊

That was really interesting. I actually discovered Norbert Weiner's book on cybernetics in the school library back in the 80s. It was a fascinating and very inspiring book to read, and I'd say one of the best. The other big player of this era was John von Neumann.

@kxkxkxkx

Жыл бұрын

Every computer in the world for many generations has used the von Neumann architecture ☝️ Norbert was nothing by comparison

@Andrew-rc3vh

Жыл бұрын

@@kxkxkxkx John von Neumann is also credited for the idea of a universally programmable machine.

This is so fascinating! I love nerding out your videos. Excellent work 💯

This is one of the very few channels where I click on the thumbs up before I have listened to the entire video. Informative and carefully researched, these are valuable history lessons.

Thank you for yet another carefully researched and thoughtful documentary. You seem to have found your niche in life.

wow, this is some great insight into what always seemed a bizarre shortcoming of Soviet industry.. Hearing about the bureaucratic infighting makes me want to learn more about the topic

Could you do a video about High Frequency Trading and all tech involved in that? Optiver is one of the bigger companies in the field.

@complex_variation

Жыл бұрын

nice topic

@cameronguilbeau5888

Жыл бұрын

Great suggestion

@Locutus

Жыл бұрын

No.

i'm glad that asianometry has good prowess for research

But seriously, if only Kitov had proposed leveraging existing telex networks instead of depending on the military.

@rwall514

Жыл бұрын

What telex networks? Apparently they were still using manual switchboards even in the 1970s.

These videos should have at least 500k views. Very informative!

Opposition to OGAS from political bodies reminded me of Jack Ma getting into trouble after his radical financial algorithm proposition. However it may be argued the motivations from both sides were different in these seperate events, among other things.

I love this video, and the explanation of how the Soviet unions Internet never really took off. Makes me think I would love to see a video by you, explaining how the Western Internet actually successfully came into being.

@TimPerfetto

Жыл бұрын

Why are you ruining his life? Why did the Soviet internet fail?

@cameronguilbeau5888

Жыл бұрын

@@TimPerfetto lol

@ydhirsch

Жыл бұрын

I'd be pleased to contribute my first hand recollections from 1980s-90s BBN, as well as introductions to other sources.

@anthonypennings6763

Жыл бұрын

Short version. SAGE, Whirlwind, ARPA, and Bell Labs all received government funding for computer development and later let them be commercialized. Bell Labs released the transistor technology for licensing under pressure by the Justice Dept. SAGE companies like IBM and Honeywell developed mainframes. Computers were picked up mainly by the financial industries, such as banks for fail-safe computing and automation during the paper crisis of the early 1970s. The move to markets in the 1970s and 1980s helped computers and networking. Reuters Money Market Monitor created the first virtual market used for FX exchange after Bretton Woods was ended. SWIFT picked up ARPA's packet-switching, although TCP/IP required a military decree in the early 1980s. Those protocols were further diffused through the NSFNET, assisted by "Star Wars" money and fear of the Japanese 5th Gen to link up supercomputers for AI. Gore went on a global crusade for the GII at the GATT Uruguay Round and ITU plenipotentiary to privatize global telecoms. That was solidified at the first WTO meetings, along with the ending of tariffs on IT. Thus we got the WWW. It was a complex interplay of government funding, military rationale, and private-sector innovation.

@KironManuelCards

5 ай бұрын

Language makes a difference

Great work, never heard of this before.

What a fascinating story this is, and one I'd never heard of before. 👍 If a command economy could ever be made to work without a crushing bureaucracy and inefficiency, this is probably how it would need to be done.

@gagamba9198

Жыл бұрын

The crushing bureaucracy and inefficiency are features and not bugs.

@abnerdoon4902

Жыл бұрын

Politics, corruption and petty interests always gets in the way. This is why it'll never work.

@ScottishThunderFuck

Жыл бұрын

There is a great 7 part series from Adam Curtis called Traumazone the second part goes into detail about gosplan

@jaazz90

Жыл бұрын

If it can work, it will work eventually on its own. Some corporation, for example Microsoft, after astounding success of neural networks, will use them to expand and devour entirety of the economy, which will happen naturally since it is best at making decisions and wins in a long run. And then you have a single centralized entity guiding economy. Wouldn't even have to kill tens of millions of people, who knew. And if it doesn't work, then it won't happen.

@laurencezemlick1979

Жыл бұрын

@@abnerdoon4902 happens in the US, too. The difference is that people can get voted out, fired, or they just go out of business. It’s hard to be too corrupt for too long.

Glushkov's ideas were rejected by Suslov and Kosygin in favor of the so-called Lieberman reforms -based on increasing the role of profit in economic calculations in planning. These reforms helped put the USSR into stagnation in the late 1970s, and Glushkov died a very bitter man. He said one of the reasons the party bosses rejected his ideas was because Lieberman's plan cost nothing but the paper it was printed on to implement, while Glushkov's plan cost billions of rubles and had an element of risk.

@kylehankins5988

Жыл бұрын

I believe the reforms were mostly nixed in the early 70s, due to a backlash from the old guard.

Have you read about cybersyn? It was a Chilean project that was similar. Could be a cool video topic.

In the USSR the military-industrial complex was the most advanced and well resourced branch of the economy, with certain degree of internal (managed) competition. It pretty much existed as a parallel quasi-state and logically quite cautious of sharing/cooperating any of its resources and privileges in a way that would diminish its position, as it existed in a rigid low-trust totalitarian state with immovable status-quo. Power brokering at different state administration levels, not much dissimilar of the lobbying culture in the US, was pretty much the only channel of implementing innovations and just moving things ahead, since there's was no free market competition with independent actors, governed by impartial legal and judicial systems. From outside such a society might project an image of rigid unity, but in reality it is simply a long game of precariously balanced standoff between different wolf packs where only a strong leader can keep the whole enterprise in some working order -- the top alpha power-broker.

@anthonypennings6763

Жыл бұрын

"Power brokering at different state administration levels, not much dissimilar of the lobbying culture in the US, was pretty much the only channel of implementing innovations and just moving things ahead" nice comment.

@HauntedXXXPancake

6 ай бұрын

It's somewhat ironic, that with the many mergers in the Russian military-industrial complex over the last 20 years, it's now more centralized, less inter-competitive and (with Politicians often sitting on the Boards of Directors), closer to Politics, than it was in in the USSR.

I had this book on my to read list for years, i am so glad to be able to get a good summary and overview

as a few others have pointed out, the ogas story didn't end in 1970 but started, and it was to launch in the year 2000. also worth mentioning is that a lot of managers were actually *too* enthusiastic re: automation, and one of glushkov's biggest supporters was ustinov -- it wasn't as simple as 'bureaucrats versus technocrats.'

the more you look at it... corruption / inefficiency & protectionism were the downfalls of the USSR rather than ideology or communism itself.

Do a story on the economy of the Kuril Islands

@rutvikrs

Жыл бұрын

I vote for North sentinel Island.

@answerman9933

Жыл бұрын

I have another idea: A story on the Aral Sea.

@antarakmit4114

Жыл бұрын

@@rutvikrs ofc you'd say that.

@DivinesLegacy

Жыл бұрын

@Cu6upckuû This is offensive im from the kuril islands. jk no one lives there

@leaveme3559

Жыл бұрын

Why?

Another great video, Jon! Thank you

Thank you for making another excellent video 👍

Back in the days when you were able to not look like a weirdo wearing a lab coat for IT work

Bet more than a few elites breathed a sigh of relief when it became clear the party elites made some serious missteps when it came to this kind of technology. Had they built the system that was being proposed and adjusted the command economy to fit it, then most of us would have had very different experiences in our Econ 101 classes.

@kylehankins5988

Жыл бұрын

Tbh while I think this would have helped soviet planning work better, I don't think it really solves the fundamental problem which is that the soviet bureaucracy managing the economy was really under no incentive or pressure to get anything done. They could just block any potentialy "disruptive" proposals.

@2thelimit

Жыл бұрын

@@kylehankins5988 I agree. Which is why they would have had to adjust the command economy and the party bureaucracy to the system. Had they done that it's likely the USSR would have survived as a socialist state.

Thanks for such an excellent video. I already knew about the us ARPANET, but very little about soviet attemps. This video was informative in the regard.

Ngl, Anatoly Kitov was really an exceptional character, signified by his hunger for wisdom and knowledge. Bro literally did maths in the battlefield.

In 60s the Soviet economy was far from stagnation, which started in 70s. Thank you for another great video

@voicelessglottalfricative6567

9 ай бұрын

Before Khrushchev's revisionism kicked into full effect

Sounds like "The Forbin Project". Yes I remember the movie, it was pretty good. You haven't lived until you ran thicknet through a DARPA office and used a vampire tap.

@earthwormscrawl

Жыл бұрын

Saw the movie (have the DVD), and used the wire way back when.

Duration of project grows exponentially with complexity. That's why is better to split one large project on many small ones and with distributed computer systems it worked nicely. In fact, many small organizations will create useful parts on own initiative, when possible.

I would like to commend the general comments about information gathering at the start of this video. I completely agree as to the importance of reading a wide range of opinion representing all potential biases.

the thought of even a portion of a massive nations industrial capacity directly controlable via one computer interface seems so strange and amazing. Like some video game production order.

@nomobobby

Жыл бұрын

I was today years old when... I realize just how weird the building interfaces are in civilization games v. How leaders would actually negotiate between local officials and resources they had to get something built.

I thought I was the only guy in the world remembering Gossplan... In fact I remember docummentaries from the late 70s? early 80s? Praising how Gossplan was the future for the world economy...

Your channel is blasting 🚀

as always - very good documentation. many thanks

One of the best topics I've seen so far here...

A reason wasn’t just corruption in the fear that individual power would be lost. It was that the state, as represented by the leaders and organizations, wanted to direct not just the economy, but the appearance of its success. In that undertaking, they needed to control the numbers. These systems would take that out of their hands, and spit out an objective accounting of how the economy was performing. But for the Soviet state, that would never do, and so these systems were doomed to failure.

I always think back to the stories where the ‘internet’ in eastern bloc countries was quite literally guys running floppies back and forth.

Would be interested in reading your sources for this video (and others) so I can read more. You've done some good research clearly.

awesome writeup! i studied AiISU from 2000. the uni dropped the ball due to lack of lecturers, lol. did not graduate, went working in IT from year one.

2:25 Yep and this is the basic concept of Proudhon anarchism theory, which is the most conservative socialist ideology. Possession is differentiated from Property. An individual (or a family) possesses something until they have no use of it.

@d3thkn1ghtmcgee74

Жыл бұрын

Personal property is the term he used that underlined in mutualism. Karl Marx actually agreed with alot of his works but criticize some details under mutualism. Fair enough. Lol

I had a college internship in 1985 at Argonne National Laboratory, on a project studying why the effects of the Three Mile Island nuclear accident were much less severe than they predicted. They used Arpanet there to communicate with the reactor in Idaho. It was interesting, but there was little indication what it would eventually become.

On the other hand, DEMOS cooperative and RELCOM network not just survived but evolved into what we know today as Runet... Although it took shape right at the end of 1980s, connected with EUnet in 1990 (which is a cool story on its own) and in 1991 was the only information channel during the coup... It also was a purely institution -science network I'd love to see a video on this topic :D

Very, very interesting! I'm an economist, but just enough old to have studied the Soviet & European economies in the 1970-80's. Then when personal computers and later the internet came along, I was an early adopter, even listening in on what standards ought to be adopted. It's very interesting everytime you get an overview spanning longer time frames, because very, very few ideas are really fundamentally completely new. There is always an evolution of ideas. And advanced meta ideas of what "information" actually is, and how it can be utilized through things like networking, have obviously been there long before most of society even heard of "the internet". The strongpoint of the rather anarchist way of liberal market economy is, that a huge number of competing ideas get a chance. Yes, in theory, a lot of resources get wasted on a lot of bad ideas, compared to an ideal planned society. Sadly, in both systems a lot of good ideas also get wasted. Though without a doubt, I much prefer giving "mad" entreprenours, scientists and inventors the freedom to experiment without asking for endorsement. Yes, a lot of inventions never leave the garage, but some computer apples do!

Would've been interesting to see how it would've developed differently from the Western internet if it went mainstream in Eastern Europe...

@chinguunerdenebadrakh7022

Жыл бұрын

Imagine the memes!

@VestinVestin

Жыл бұрын

​@@chinguunerdenebadrakh7022 The memes, of course, would be centrally designed by the central committee of the Department of Memetics and distributed to each citizen in accordance with their needs... At least in theory.

@doomer704

7 ай бұрын

​@@VestinVestinEastern Europe would have 10 years backward parity and the citizen would have to content with memes like "Socially Awkward Penguin" or "Philosoraptor" which prompts the KGB to stole memes stash from Pentagon.

The only thing I find dubitable is Soviet military computers being so far ahead of civilian computers. Of course, if by military computers you don't mean highly specialized ballistic computers, missile guidance systems, etc.

The analogy of the human nervous system was interesting to hear because I seem to recall that the cyberneticist Stafford Beer also used the human nervous system as a model for his viable system model. And, he would eventually get hired by the Allende government to create a system for Chile in the early 1970s to manage manufacturing and logistical processes of the economy - that was Project Cybersyn.

The Soviet internet... fascinating. I had no idea..... thank you kindly.

Now imagine a science fiction movie or video game that deals with a Soviet internet AI collective gone rogue. A Soviet Skynet if you will

@raygamma36

Жыл бұрын

A Chinese SkyNet is probably a more likely possibility.

@skotomogilnik6305

Жыл бұрын

google perimetr system

@DrumToTheBassWoop

Жыл бұрын

Atomic Heart ? 🤨😊

The variable speed heat pumps that run more often are supposed to do that because they work more efficiently running at 25-50% of their maximum capacity. As big a benefit as that is that they’re far quieter, usually almost silent, they help eliminate hot and cold spots, provide consistent heating or cooling rather than the up and down temperature swings of an on/off system, and they dehumidify the air to whatever you want when cooling far better than a standard AC unit. In cold climate they generally advise upsizing the variable speed by 1 ton more than the amount needed for cooling, which is something you can’t do by code for single stage. A normal ac system doesn’t respond to being oversized at all, resulting in excess humidity in the house. Multi-stage heat pumps can respond pretty well though to make the space more comfortable. Recently went from a single stage 5 ton heat pump from 2007 to carrier’s variable speed Infinity 4 ton after a lot of insulating. I was surprised looking at the heating curves at temperature that not only does the new cold-climate heat pump make far more heat below like 40*F but instead of consistently dropping, somewhere in the 40’s it increases heat output as temperature drops before starting to drop again. So it would be like finding out your heat pump moves more heat at 40* than at 45*. Probably just an internal consequence of programming changes by the inverter and controller though. Used to need aux heat below 30*, new one rarely goes over 50% consistently.electric usage is also half the old one. Also doubt we’ll ever need our aux heat ever again. Before getting a new system, people should consider how much they can save by adding insulation or reducing heating or cooling needs. Not just because it saves money in the long term, but because less heating or cooling load means you can downsize and save thousands by getting a smaller system. If you end up a tiny bit underpowered you can spend the money on improving insulation or windows or air-sealing. Our house used to kick on heat when it got down to 55-60, after adding more insulation in the ceiling it doesn’t unless it’s been under 50 for several night hours. Kind of annoys me actually because the thermal mass causes it to try to go above the set temp and run AC at night.

Then one day, the army realised that no home economy, meant no money for defence, no advanced in industry to source weapons and parts. Finally a poorer workforce meant poorer quality recruits

I've read about Soviet Cybernetics in the book Red Plenty by Francis Spufford. Recently also heard about similar chilean project in the 1970s en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn . The millitary coup sadly put a stop to it.

The one thing that failed the Soviet internet. It's that bureaucracy exists for a reason. In the Soviet union, it was to protect the power of bureaucrats and military officers. Of course a decision maker wouldn't want their job being automated. That would lessen the opertunities for personal favours and drastically reduce their own personal power.

Excellent presentation!

Good video! One thing I think is important to mention is that there was/is a branch of socialists/communists/central planners who based their ideas around a command economy being achievable using computers back into the 1920s and 30s, so there was a little bit of ideological background to the idea I think.

@JohnDoe-ph6if

Жыл бұрын

remember any names?

@SumRandumbGi

Жыл бұрын

@@JohnDoe-ph6if only really Cläre Tisch and Oskar R. Lange from the socialist calculation debate

I find it real funny how modern history books always told me at a glance that the ussr was incredibly centralized but the more you look at it you see that it was the opposite.

@Olivman7

6 ай бұрын

Decisions and resource allocation were centralized, but there were still a ton of small companies working within the system. If you wanted wood to build a new shed for your factory, your options were putting in a request to the central planning system or getting it from the decentralized black market.

Very good content, keep it up!

Very interesting. Thx for the content.

Great Video. Chalk one more to Network Effects. But the russians (along with the chinese) are at it again, via standards bodies

This was a fascinating insight into how the self-defeating "Soviet way of doing things" turned what could have been a 10-year head start on the biggest technological achievement of the 20th century into an just another Soviet embarrassment to add to the pile. It appears that ultimately no amount of technology can fix a fundamentally broken way of looking at the world.

@voicelessglottalfricative6567

9 ай бұрын

The USSR had failures, yes, but you have to do research to understand the conditions they were in and realize that all the cards were stacked against them. They made incredible progress in spite of this, but to highlight failures as a "failure of the system" is nonsense . It's simply failures the Soviets have done, and yet, in spite of those failures and conditions, they still achieved rapid development and had gotten to where they were.

Hey @ 3:13 the nurse on the far left is Sam Bankman Fried ( SBF) time traveler !

There is some deep irony in the failure of soviet internet. The corruption and split interests of many powerful institutions was the direct result of having no ability to confirm or share information fast enough to plan the economy. But precisely because of the bureaucracy implementing planned economy without such system caused, the idea was doomed to fail in such environment. Nowdays multinational companies use high level of automation to aid their resource management and planning, and achieve astonishing results because of it. It is safe to say computers and internet are very viable for planned production and resource management - and while it so far hasn’t removed the need for decision making, it has allowed much more detailed and informed decision making, while removed many levels of management those decisions rely on.

@JIUNnF

11 ай бұрын

Либо те которые "нада" решения.

And it was all going to be brought to you by...the humble vacuum tube

I'd love to see your take on Project Cybersyn. It was successfully set up in Chile but demolished when the CIA backed coup happened. The renderings of the operations room on Wikipedia look very Star Trek.

In 1988 a Soviet visitor told me they had cloned VAX mainframe hardware but their version had bugs in it.

@rcl5555

11 ай бұрын

They did! Look up DEMOS and SM-1700 (also spelled CM-1700).

I'd like to see Kitov's face if he knew that Russia primarily uses the internet for Counterstrike and dashcam videos.

Cybernetic Ghost of Christmas Past, From the Future