The entire point of those combination screw heads was to allow either flat or posidriv drivers to be used. The combination bits you're showing only came into existence 20 years or so after the combination heads were introduced. There's also a lot of variations on the econo heads. In the UK you've got the PosiDriv/slotted, but in the US that would be a Philips/slotted, Robertson/slotted, or even one that is a combination of all three.

Dont think Ive ever come across a screw in a consumer unit or DB where that punch down tool at the manufactures hasn't worn down. Its becoming an absolute nightmare with screw heads and it seems to be getting worse. And what are they making the screw heads out of? putty? I think that all posi, phillips and slotted screw heads should go, and be replaced with hex heads like DNO stuff. No more snapped screw driver blades, and no more having to use a plus minus, then a posi, and then a slotted screwdriver to tighten a CU screw. And as a bonus the hex tool holds the screw, so no more vanishing screws falling into that black hole which, as soon a screw is dropped, opens up and swallows it.

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

Quite a lot of people are suggesting hex or torx head screws.

@saul1679

Жыл бұрын

They are just as bad imo. Turn into circles too easy

@AdamS-lh2ug

Жыл бұрын

The Canadians have it right, Robertson (square drive).

@KendalMike

Жыл бұрын

Torx would be my choice. I use them a lot for my non-electrical work where available. You can get a lot of grip on the screw without having to push so hard and bending things, as well as much less chance of cam out. They would be a great addition to consumer units, especially with the requirement for now using torque screwdrivers.

@Savagetechie

Жыл бұрын

@@AdamS-lh2ug indeed but Henry ford spoiled that for the rest of the world (well Robertson actually ruined it for themselves but Henry was a prominent part)

I've found that if your struggling to tighten the screws with the driver at an angle instead of completely straight, that'll cause them to break.

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

Another very good tip, thanks much. 😃

I was starting to think there was something wrong with my technique- I now make a point of carrying a few spare slotted pozi tips as it’s such a regular occurrence. Bloody annoying! Why not Torx in consumer units?

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

Loads are suggesting torx on here. 🤔

@olly7673

Жыл бұрын

@@efixx Have a word with your Italian buddy at Lewden Palazzoli to start the trend and others may follow. I have Wera Kompact ones snap off on me and, even when they don't, I find it a mare to torque them up properly. Interesting to hear the main culprit being the screw manufacturer, though I would suggest they would not agree with you.😉 Torx, hex or even better would be Robertson as most DIY Daves wont have one. Let's see if you cant influence the industry boys!

@reubenklang3968

Жыл бұрын

@@efixx torx would be amazing upgrade. It’s a shame they aren’t used more.

@tookitogo

Жыл бұрын

@@reubenklang3968 If it were up to me, everything would be moved to Torx. I don’t see any advantage whatsoever in slotted, Philips, PoziDriv, or hex compared to Torx.

@reubenklang3968

Жыл бұрын

@@tookitogo Need slotted so people don’t over torque screws and cam them out :) For everything else torx or Robertson - which is even better and only has 3 sizes would be even better! You’d only need 3 screwdrivers to cover every single screw.

Great video , 100% agree with your findings. I know Wiha have a rigid QC on their drivers especially the SL /PZ 1&2 or Sl/PH 1/2 profile including the slim vario bits (other driver manufactures are available 😀’) and it’s not drivers that are an issue 😊

I have absolutely no clue why all breakers are not torx type. Iv noticed that a certain fuse box , I mean consumer unit that I struggle to get the suggested torque before repeated Cam out .

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

Yur, it'll be interesting to see if this changes over the next few years.

Slotted pozi is a useless design, not used that tip in years, had that issue far too many times on wera and wiha bits.. been using pz2 since, may get the odd cam out very rarely, but then i send it back to the supplier.. torx is the way forward .. good to see someone highlighting this... well done Joe

@SeanBZA

Жыл бұрын

Yes the JIS driver bit works best in these, not the combination bit, which offers very little extra ability. The main reason is worn bits, so always use a replaceable tip, and keep a few spare ones around, and replace the bits as they wear. I buy packs of the cheap bits, and as the PZ2 and Ph2 tips are the most used, those are the ones I buy in packs of 3, and keep as spares, taking the worn ones, you can easily see the wear as they go, so when it starts to cam out you simply put a new bit in for the next screw, because the cammed out screw is not much use any more. Also I use a lot of drywall screwws, so buy the right ones, quality ones work best, they cost a little more, but for the price of 5 10 packs of the cheap ones you get 1000 good ones, and a bit that fits them as well. The drywall screw makers figure 1000 screws is a life for the bit, and it works out that 2000 is about the life of the normal bit as well. The normal use does not involve using an electric drill setting the screws, which does wear the bits a lot. Drywall screws and 5mm plugs are my go to for fitting electrical stuff, strong, will go into masonry well, and the screws self drill into a lot of materials as well. Including into steel tubing.

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

Quite a lot are suggesting switching to torx head in CUs.

@thattoolguy9432

Жыл бұрын

@@efixx yeah its a good idea, even if there is tolerance issues with the screw head it wont affect it too much

Anything that has a flat blade is likely to break as the forces are uneaven. Cross head are a little better but not much as they can slip and end up rounded. Biggest problem is when the item comes from the manufacturer and the screw is so tight to start with that you can hear it squeak with the force needed to loosen the screw. That's when either the screw or the driver tends to fail for me.

I am hearing a very long excuse on why I had so many Wiha slotted pozi tips break on me. Switched to Wera over 2 years ago and haven't had a broken tip since.

@cj-rb8fz

Жыл бұрын

Had quite a few of them snapping as well, got sick of spending £8 on new bit so switched to armeg, it’s a lot better

And the damn suppliers told us we might have used the screw drivers at an odd angle, and that's why they would break. Good to finally hear a reasonable answer. Not that it's never my fault. "PZ1 driver in a PZ2 screw? What could go wrong just this once"

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

😂 We've all been there.

@thattoolguy9432

Жыл бұрын

To be fair, Wera replaced my tips under warranty even though they said it was tolerance issues with the manufactured screws, cant fault them for being upfront.. Wiha totally ignored me, slightly peeved me as i spent loads on wiha kit ,... all gone now 🤣

I find it all the time, and for the smaller rcbo ones its even worse finding one that does fit. The only one i find that doesnt slip is a wiha flat head in the torque screw driver.

Robertson square #1 and #2 are hard to damage. As are Philips/slotted types. Maybe a change is needed for panels and consumer units. Also don’t use your torque bits elsewhere.

Same what happened with me when i was use draper torque screwdriver the tow head broken

will be nice to see in every DB sticker with Nm for each type of terminal as well.

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

Some brands are doing this now, Lewden is a good example. 😊

Broke two screws installing a back box yesterday, literally the last thing I was going to fit Took ages to get the screw hole sorted, only for the second screw to break too 🤦

@cal5566

Жыл бұрын

Some of the screws on the market are beyond scrap. Honestly think someone on the life hacks portion of KZread is casting aluminium screws into circulation

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

Easy to feel like the universe is working against you on days like that. 😂💪

Hex heads or spring clip terminals please. love to see a video on faulty Chinese MCBs as causes a lot of fires .

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

Lots suggesting hex or torx heads in the comments.

Soooo Slotted pozi head screws were used in Square D boards in the early 80s BUT there were no dedicated drivers. You were advised to, that she a slotted or a Pozi! Discuss...

why does my impacter tip breaks after 2 duggers in main switch when it says 2.5 duggers?

Incorrect tip-hardening/annealing at Wiha. Yes, looking at you, Wiha. There is no excuse for an expensive piece of kit to snap/shatter like that.

Used wiha for years for the torque screwdriver always snap the pz and every time I've snapped it it's been on a hager CU that's all we fit at work.

@cj-rb8fz

Жыл бұрын

Had the same issue so ebayed the torque driver and went over to armeg, , lot better quality, even the click on the driver is more crisper and once it’s clicked you feel it more so you don’t keep turning it and bits feel more quality

I always use an impact driver and tighten it just before that righty tighty becomes righty loosey :)

I have noticed this problem with German screwdrivers. The poor quality of Steel. As I live in Canada. We mostly use Robertson screws. One of the best screws you can ever use. And the screwdrivers never break. For a good quality set of screwdrivers. I suggest buying a kit of Milwaukee screwdrivers. I've been using them for four years now. I actually used the flat head screwdriver as a pry bar. And it didn't even bend. Phillips head screwdrivers from Milwaukee are ten times tougher than those. Mostly all the electrical devices in a home in Canada are Robertson screws. That is a screw with looks like a box shape.

sl pz for hand tight, slotted 6.5mm for the torque

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

Really? You don't use a slotted pozi for setting the torque? Is there a reason? 🤔

@stevehirst536

Жыл бұрын

Same here, find none of my slotted/pozi combined head screwdrivers sit well enough in any consumer unit terminal. Always end up using a pozi to nip up then slotted to torque. It's like the manufacturers use a different depth of bit than the screw heads

Another example of manufacturing issues both with the fuse-boards and the screwdrivers. We dont make anything well and use all modern best ways of doing things like using wago type connections like the top job din rail connections. They could even use hex type connections as half the screws slip when trying to achieve the correct torque setting.

Why don't manufacturers use Allen head screws or torx head screws.?

I’ve snapped 3 Kline sl/pz 1 so annoying

0:39 I feel attacked.

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

😂 It wasn't personal!

The older screwdrivers with the resin handles were a lot stronger than these modern slim tip screwdrivers, there was more chance of the screw head breaking or shearing off before the screwdriver tip.

Screwdrivers wear out, sparky screwdrivers last a lot longer than joiner's bits; when I was doing site carpentry I expected to break at least one bit a day and that was using wera diamond hards... Cheap bits I'd expect to break 5+ a day.

Alsoo I use them same torque NM AS CIRCUIT BREAKER WRITE ON IT

@eliadbu

Жыл бұрын

I have seen quite a bit of circuit breakers with zero information on them or online about the appropriate torque value.

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

At least you're trying Youssef!

If you snap off the other side you can use it as a standard Robertson

Bad wiha, felo best. Hello from Russia)

Cant beat Stanley drivers I've tried all types over 46 years.

Torx screws in a Consumer Unit would be a good shout, not Allen head though, they round for a laugh. All those slotted pozi bits break in exactly the same way

Not accussing but , is the steel/metal heads cheap Chinese "metal mix ?🤔

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

Wiha are very good quality to be fair. I was surprised this was brought to our attention I haven't snapped one yet. 🤔

so where can you buy 1 new pz2 bit for wiha. i cant find any. need to buy a whole new kit. broken 3 wiha bits in the last 3 months. so is it the wiha thats crap?

@olly7673

Жыл бұрын

Just put in Google. I've just found 4 or so including CPC, UK-RS, Amazon and Ebay... all around £7.50

@codenamenel

Жыл бұрын

loads on Ebay usually selling individual bits of all different types

@Donkigonk

Жыл бұрын

Its Wiha that is crap. Broke sl/pz2, sl/pz1 and 2 Pz1 until changed to Wera. problems solved.

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

Not had any issues with Wiha to be fair.

@codenamenel

Жыл бұрын

@@Donkigonk I've broke CK, Newlec, Wiha, Bahco, Wera and others in them over the years, the screw design is pants, should be Torx or Allen head

Square drive screws are the best.

Robertson for the win, decades old tools still in use, second place would be hex, slotted should be retired decades ago, none of PZ not to mention PH(that was designed to cam out) last more than couple months of regular/semi regular use, ofc nothing will change and all that talk about environment is just for taking more of your money in taxes and stripping you of your freedoms with every new regulation and insurance/license requirement. How much materials and energy is used to manufacture tens on different types of bit types that don't last and screws, how much all that types of different items taking inventory space, how much extra time and fuel you need to use if one store don't have that type on stock?

3:26 “it’s been suggested” that you could just use a slotted or PoziDriv driver? Well yeah. Those screws weren’t designed for slotted-pozi drivers, they were designed to accept slotted, PoziDriv, and Robertson screwdrivers. The existence of the slotted-pozi drivers is the _consequence_ of such screws having poor grip with, well, _every_ screwdriver type they were designed to accept. It’s the hack, so to speak.

Complete Bollocks. The screws are made from cheese. It's the way the screwdriver heads are ground with sharp internal corners, case hardened to deep and not anneal enough if at all. Pozidriv fail the same way in normal case hardened screws. F knows why everything isn't Torx or JIS (looks like a phillips).

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

Lots of people suggesting torx head screws on the comments here. 🤔

Lifehack : Dont put the Red Wiha Bits in your Cordless Drill 😅

@eliadbu

Жыл бұрын

I'm not even going to ask why you did that. But that is true you should use the bits as intended - with the appropriate handle.

@SeanBZA

Жыл бұрын

@@eliadbu Just buy an extension hex bit, or a cheap kit that has one, and the extra length hex bits from the cabinet suppliers instead, they work so much better. Plus you get them in packs as well. The hex shank drill bits are also a great thing, along with the hex drive spade bits for drilling holes in plastic and wood.

@efixx

Жыл бұрын

😂 Top tip!

What happened to the old days equipment and gears that nearly never failed... Instead of using explanations and excuses that I don't underestimate them, why not manufactures go back to the real quality as it used to be specially the brands and expensive makes that we all belive in, spending our top money in them and get dissipotments again and again... Just a point to think of,not that I disagree with been said here witch I apriciated!