When my daughter was 10 years old, she asked me if they were able to make drinking water from seawater. I said yes, but it is more expensive than just starting with fresh water. So she replied, "Oh, so they are just going to use all the fresh water first and then be forced to desalination!" I think she was correct.

@jeffc1532

Жыл бұрын

Lake Mead is about to hit Dead Pool status so she is correct we will wait until it is to late as we always do. Then that bottle of water will cost more than the gas right now.

@shitballs782

Жыл бұрын

I love Arizona but life has led me to michigan seeing the water problem in AZ is absolutely nuts you may think if you have a drilled well you're going to be OK.. maby but I doubt it I have seen to many wells run dry ...I'D CUT CALIFORNIA'S WATER SUPPLY calfornia is a lost cause anyways

@jeffc1532

Жыл бұрын

@@shitballs782 Imagine we get to that tipping point where there is nothing they can do, but watch it all dry up and possibly burn. Las Vegas was built in a Desert where there was nothing and it can go back to that without water.

@chipsammich2078

Жыл бұрын

10 year old knowing the word Desalination is impressive

@lancemcque1459

Жыл бұрын

Smart daughter.

While in the US NAVY the ship that I served on was nuclear powered. We used the reactors heat to distill sea water for the ships reactor coolant and drinking water, plus equipment coolant as sell. We never went on water rations. The best way to get electricity and fresh water is to build small nuclear power plants and have desalination plants next to the electric generators. Win win. Nuclear reactor technology had come a very long way since the 60's. Safer, simpler and cheaper to operate and maintain.

@Barskor1

2 жыл бұрын

You don't even need much heat water boils at 30c in a vacuum.

@imakedookie

2 жыл бұрын

@@Barskor1 heat or energy used to reduce atmosphere, potato potato, there is a requirement for latent vaporization

@Barskor1

2 жыл бұрын

@@imakedookie Gravity can do the work to create a hard vacuum with just two tanks 12 meters apart one above the other fill the top tank with water and let it drain to the bottom tank.

@davidhuttner275

2 жыл бұрын

And what did the navy do with the nuclear (fission) wastes?

@Spacedog79

2 жыл бұрын

@@davidhuttner275 Navy reactors are typically highly enriched so they last for decades. The quantity of waste is tiny and the radioactivity will drop much faster then traditional reactor waste. Eventually I'd hope these fission products will be recycled and valuable elements repurposed but since the quantity is so small this isn't a problem that needs to be addressed for a long time.

This video feels more like a marketing campaign for the city rather than an analysis as to why there aren't more desalination plants. The actual answer to the question was said in 10 seconds with no real dive into it. The Neom project sounds like another one of those model city plans that will ultimately fail because it relies on other systems which offset everything good that is done by the project. How can we ensure that removing these elements from the ocean is fine to do? How can you ensure that you don't remove too much water from the sea? How will this affect its biochemistry? Very little science was presented in this video and I am even skeptical even on what was presented. Is the Neom project the future of desalination? Who knows, because this guy sure doesn't. No specifics about the technology is discussed, just empty words and marketing terms.

@Starkk9

Жыл бұрын

hahahahhahahahaha i know u don't likr saudi but this is the worst argument to make. you seriously think we're gonna destabilise the ocean by taking water from it, you don't understand the size of the ocean and the amount of water it has. and saudi isn't gonna take the elements the ocean has because saudi isn't aiming to do that it's just a secondary product. even if your argument was an actual possibility it will probably take millions of years for any effects to happen and you shouldn't worry about that the sun will explode first

@Nukepositive

Жыл бұрын

Don't forget that Neom being a straight line is the worst start to urban planning you could possibly make. Cities have been circles for thousands of years because it is the most efficient shape for minimizing the average distance between all points on its area.

@TheOtherBill

Жыл бұрын

I got Matrix vibes when he started talking about that city.

@qwertyuiopaaaaaaa7

Жыл бұрын

Very good points. When something appears too good to be true, it always is. The solutions to our biggest environmental problems will require cultural change. Technological innovation will not save us-it will help, but innovation in technology without innovation in culture is a futile path.

@Swifto_Sweeper

Жыл бұрын

“empty words and marketing terms.” Just because he doesn’t go 🤓 mode on doesn’t mean that his video is entirely fodder.

Brine could easily be repurposed for regions that use salt on the roads. Brine is great. It actually sticks to the surface you apply it too and coats way more. Salt lands in random spots. Brine gives you a solid consistent coat.

As a chemical engineer working in a desalination station in Kuwait, my dream and goal in life is to bring the dome technology to Kuwait and all around the world. The neom project looks like heaven to me and id love nothing more than to be a part of it

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 жыл бұрын

that's amazing! yeah I hear you, I'm pretty excited to see it come to life too

@kiloton1920

2 жыл бұрын

Is it using vacuum distillation?

@ironczar8975

2 жыл бұрын

must be a fascinating job

@bobb.6393

2 жыл бұрын

@@ironczar8975 yes it sure sounds like it

@bobb.6393

2 жыл бұрын

@@kiloton1920 I'd like to hear more

Our company was one of the first thin film composite reverse osmosis design engineering, manufacturer, installation companies. We created the drinking water from the red sea and made the desert bloom. However the key was to remove all the microscopic life in sea water prior to separation the salty water. Many companies dropped the ball on pretreatment requirement and their plants failed long term. Fresh water and conservation reusability can solve humanities water needs.

@adrianpallis4568

Жыл бұрын

Exactly the way to save the humanity from the global environment problems, we need to use the seawater as drinking water.

@trueAnge1

Жыл бұрын

Hi Larry, could you tell me why it's important to take out the microscopic life forms first? Thanks

@larrystenger1247

Жыл бұрын

@@trueAnge1 Oceans are full of microscopic life which will grow as a biofilm on the surface of the reverse osmosis membranes reducing their ability to produce fresh water. Cleaning these biofilms becomes difficult and over time becomes costly and difficult. We turned down many projects because the civil engineers would not listen to us. Such projects failed within a year. Hope that helps.

@trueAnge1

Жыл бұрын

@@larrystenger1247 thanks a lot

@eventhisidistaken

Жыл бұрын

Didn't know how important that is - I suppose it depends on the cost of membranes vs pre-treatment as to what makes more sense; pre-treat, or just burn through membranes. I have no idea of the costs.

I love this video! Thanks a million! I was in the military and when I went to the middle east, I observed how many desalinization plants they had. My question was...why does the rest of the world not fall in line with this idea and advance the technology to make it feasible? I would like to think there are many likeminded people such as yourself that can make this a larger scale reality. Great stuff! Thanks! I am a subscriber now!

@mobo8933

Жыл бұрын

It's waay to expensive. Even if we make nuclear plants and use it as a desalination plant it still waaay to expensive than just pumping it from renewable sources of water. Plus taking out those minerals from the ocean can have alot of drastic consequences to the delicate and already damaged ecosystem. Developed countries could do it but developed countries already have alot of fresh water

@brettb614

11 ай бұрын

@@mobo8933 The reason you see so many Dplants in the middle east is because it's the desert. They're not needed anywhere else. If folks want to live in the desert, they should design, pay for and produce their own means of water procurement.

I currently live in the Mojave Desert, and the very recent hydrological history of this area has made me often think that everyone is looking at desalination, energy generation, and energy storage incorrectly. We tend to look at all of these as separate issues, but in fact the combination of them would be an excellent way to reduce the costs of each individually. For instance, where I live there are many dry lakebeds scattered around the desert, some of which like Owens Lake were once large persistent inland bodies of water within the last century. Combining those dry/nearly dry lakes (many of which are salty already with the desalination process seems like an excellent way to solve virtually all the issues of desalination and the problem of solar energy storage via the following approach: 1. Massive solar farms with a large excess of day generating capacity power the Southwestern US grid. Some of this power is used to pump large volumes of raw sea water inland to currently dry or hypersaline lakebeds in the Mojave Desert, filling them and turning them into inland reservoirs of sea-water. 2. Large reverse osmosis desalination plants are constructed near these lakes, possibly underground to reduce the visual impact of the plants, taking advantage of the fact that these areas are not current wet-lands areas to speed up the process. Some of the solar power generated every day is used to produce an excess of desalinated water with these plants. Brine is returned to the salt lakes, or processed solar thermally to remove remaining water and recover raw materials (like your video talks about). 3. A portion of the desalinated water sufficient to meet the needs of regional water users is returned to the cities and towns of the Southwest via existing distribution systems, or additional infrastructure (for pumping toward the Colorado river and beyond). The rest of the desalinated water is pumped into massive inland pumped hydro systems constructed in the currently arid but topographically ideal areas of the Mojave Desert. There are areas out there where elevation differences of thousands of feet can be within a few miles of each-other, with more than enough area to accommodate lakes large enough to provide energy storage for the entire area over extended durations. 4. The combined costs of the entire system are then distributed across both water and power for regional consumers. Furthermore, mineral extraction may also help with the costs as suggested in your video. Furthermore, the renewal of large inland bodies of water will replenish the ground water supply, over time, possibly increase regional rainfall, and lead to further regional groundwater benefit if LADWP and other large Southwestern water users no longer take water from the Colorado River, Northern California, and the entire Owens River valley area. This isn't a global solution, but generally in areas where desalination is needed these other factors are present as well (deserts with dry lakes and large available solar capacity).

@1TwistedPoet

Жыл бұрын

Except for evaporation. Q: what are the two major atmospheric substances that are greenhouse effect inducing gasses, other than CO². Hint: One of them is NOT water Vapour...

@wmpx34

Жыл бұрын

@@1TwistedPoet Methane, although I had to look it up. I almost said "cow farts" as a joke, but I guess it's not completely wrong...

@1TwistedPoet

Жыл бұрын

@@wmpx34 It's actually COMPLETELY right. The two major gasses, both far worse than CO2, ARE in fact, Methane (Cow Farts) and Water Vapour. But there is NOTHING they can do about water vapour, and the Beef industry PAYS them to look the other way about Cattle Farts. So, everyone thinking that they will somehow distill the entire world's drinking water out of sea water is sorely mistaken. The extra water vapour is a greenhouse nightmare, and ALL of the heat of evaporation, 2.3 Million Joules per litre, has to be bled away into the environment. Desalination is a Hideously expensive, and Grossly inefficient way to get enough water to survive at an ENORMOUS cost to the environment. Get it up to commercial scale... you'll forget all about CO2...

@batalorian7997

Жыл бұрын

Living out in the Mojave would almost make me wish for a nuclear winter

@grant1430

Жыл бұрын

Or you could just move out of the Mojave and to a place that isn’t a death trap… seems a lil simpler

Desalination plants should have been built many years ago but sadly a majority of our society is reactive and not proactive. This video was very insightful, thank you for the excellent presentation.

@SUZANNE-jp7cd

Жыл бұрын

"Society is reactive and not proactive," excellent.

@peterzimmerman1114

Жыл бұрын

It's also somewhat expensive.

@krboswell

Жыл бұрын

@@peterzimmerman1114 It's not as expensive as running out of ground water.

@tiredman99

Жыл бұрын

See the problem is we knew this was a problem years ago and instead of building desalination plants California decided to steal the water from Arizona, Colorado, Nevada

@mfmr200

Жыл бұрын

most country don't need it. Some country have cheaper option.

Nice strategy I must say. I don't earn as much as this video claims but I earn about 3,250 USD from Hyperion Trust every week. However, I've read articles of investors that made as much as $350K profit within a few months I'd like to know what you think he invested in and how do i make such profit

@williamskanbar

2 жыл бұрын

Most probably stocks and real estate

@nuggets9113

2 жыл бұрын

Try to get a tutor or a mentor to help you out, they understand the market better

@deanjewell4292

2 жыл бұрын

I agree, investing through the guidance of a professional or a broker has its perks, I got in touch with a lady broker early this year, and through her assistance, I was able to invest in the right funds and grow a profit of $290K from January till now

@sunshineonme

2 жыл бұрын

@@deanjewell4292 Please, your broker you mentioned, how do i get in touch with her?

@deanjewell4292

2 жыл бұрын

@@sunshineonme *' Natalie * Andrea * Bows *' is the coach helping me out, and you can book an appointment with her through her website, just look her up online to get more info about her

For years I thought we should pump water from high rain and flooding areas to dry out areas. I knew it would be very expensive, but I thought it would be worth it. I’m very glad that you are pursuing this idea and thinking of imaginative ways of reducing the cost like using existing pipe lines. Thank you for your work.

@thunderlifestudios

Жыл бұрын

They actually do this. But it's of course supplemental because it's not predictable. Edit: I believe California and Arizona are some of the US states that use the concept of flood waters for agriculture in desert places.

@watchman4todayreloaded192

Жыл бұрын

No still the idea of first capturing and storing rainfall better and then transferring water would be better. At the moment people just see high rainfall in a period as nothing but a problem, instead of the valuable resource for themselves or drier parts of the country. Look at lake Mead in the US. The catchment zone for the lake is the Mohave DESSERT and then the Hoover dam and everyone downstream have always taken more out of the system than nature can normally put in. But still when a hurricane offered to pour a lot of extra water into the zone they were still crying about it and trying to say that it was the fault of climate change. What you talked about before is exactly what we need - large scale water collection and distribution. Lots of places needing water are not even near the sea to build desalination plants. So unless we are all going to move nearer the coasts, we need to be able to move fresh water around.

@brettb614

11 ай бұрын

@@watchman4todayreloaded192 We already do. They're called rivers. And they're free.

Here's a question I find interesting... What if we got extremely good as a planet at desalinating water? What if we then took all that technology, coupled it with reforesting practices, and began to slowly irrigate and change these huge desert areas where life really doesn't exist???? Can you imagine having a massive breakthrough in water desalination and using it to not just fulfill our needs as humans, but then pass that off to nature and give life to previously dead areas of the planet? We could bring down the temp of the planet, increase fresh oxygen, sequester more carbon, and beautify that desert area with green life.

@ReeperRiopel

Жыл бұрын

Life does exist in deserts, they have their own ecosystems. However, stopping desertification is a good idea

@Conceptsexplainedsimply

Жыл бұрын

@@ReeperRiopel I'm not advocating for foresting everything that's a desert. Just aiding the desert in being a healthier space on earth, and getting forests back where they belong.

@AP-yd1wz

Жыл бұрын

@@Conceptsexplainedsimply deserts are deserts because of the Earth's macro-climate. There is absolutely no point trying to change them. They cannot be anything else (at least through human intervention). The only thing that is worth doing is to limit desertification.

@lockhandle8276

Жыл бұрын

One way to "terraform" this planet in the future. Nice idea tbh Kyle.

I think that you left out a major and minor advantages about solar evaporation: 1) use solar to boil, not just evaporate salt water. Use the steam to generate electricity. 2) let the leftover steam rise to a height to allow gravity to move it. 3) as mentioned, derivatives could pay for the desalination. Sites around the world evaporate sea water to get salt. Put these two together and sea salt out one side and water out the other.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 жыл бұрын

great point! Brilliant!

@mr.anderson70

2 жыл бұрын

Perhaps use tidal power to drive pumps.

@lukedegraaf1186

2 жыл бұрын

Theres more than just tablet salt to extract...

@joachimfrank4134

2 жыл бұрын

All hydropowerplants use this already. Moving the water up to a higher place using clouds and rain.

@Froggability

2 жыл бұрын

1/ Salt water / steam through a turbine won’t last long

In Australia most major cities have desalination plants as a back up for times of drought. Melbourne Australia has one of the largest desalination plants in the world.

@vincentgrinn2665

Жыл бұрын

yeah except for the part where during the drought a couple years ago, they were all still running at 5%(the lowest theyre legally allowed to go)

@neutrino78x

Жыл бұрын

Here in the USA the arguments seem to reduce to a couple things... 1) communism, they don't want the desalination plant to be privately owned. I think that's stupid, but we can change that, just restructure the deal so that the local city owns the plant but the builder still makes a good profit in building it and providing training for its operation. 2) they think the main problem is human population, and would rather see us all stop having children, so the human species becomes extinct. This argument is deeply offensive to me on many levels, but when pressed, most who are against desalination eventually admit this.

@vincentgrinn2665

Жыл бұрын

@@neutrino78x how the hell is privately owned communism, isnt that like the opposite of communism?

@neutrino78x

Жыл бұрын

@@vincentgrinn2665 "how the hell is privately owned communism, isnt that like the opposite of communism?" That's what I'm saying, they're communists so they're against a desalination plant being privately owned.

@BarneeFife

Жыл бұрын

There would be no water problems, energy problems, environmental problems, and many more relevant problems if people wouldn't be stupid. We're adding 80 MILLION people to the planet EVERY year. It can't support us much longer. Birth control will be mandatory to survival. Within 10 to 20 years there will be wars over food and water. There already are over energy, and those will be more frequent...

I feel like desalination is important, and honestly, I don’t know fresh water was such a scarce resource. I also think in concert with water reclamation processes from rain and other natural cycles could help. An “all hands on deck” approach. Thanks for sharing this information!

Really appreciate the explanation which helped me better understand why there isn't more movement in that direction. I appreciate the downsides and perhaps more focus would lend to some better solutions. To me, the bottom line is what other solutions can take us into the future? There are other that options that currently contribute on a relatively small scale overall. IF the drought doesn't diminish, what else is there to accommodate for the demands for water in the next 30 years?

@wishingb5859

Жыл бұрын

I wonder how Israel is succeeding so wildly with desalination? What are they doing to make it work so well?

I was surprised to learn of all the other elements besides salt in ocean water. It makes sense to harvest those elements, especially thorium.

@torstenwinkler8610

2 жыл бұрын

Don't get excited. It's basicaly BS, coz to extract any of those materials you'd need so much effort that it's not even close to effective. Look at the graph they showed - it means there is a huge mountain of NaCl and somewhere in that pile there is a single grain of some Thorium (or whatever) salt.

@robertroigsantamaria

2 жыл бұрын

Lithium is there, but at 0.2 ppm, that means you need to process HUGE amounts of sea salt to get some.

@davidgates1122

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent video sir.

@pravindahiya719

2 жыл бұрын

Thorium - nearly 0.01 ppm i.e. one gram thorium is present in 100 tonnes of water ! quite economical to separate from other salts ! 🙃

@patrickreynolds6270

2 жыл бұрын

I mean the question is how would you efficiently extract such minute trace amounts? That is conveniently skipped over.

Thank you for the video. In the submarine service we distilled seawater while underway. This water was used for consumption, the galley, showers, the laundry, and a variety of other purposes. Of course, it helped, having a nuclear power plant to produce the required energy. I remember only one time when water restrictions were called for and that was brief. A side note: being submerged for extended periods of time, we also produced Oxygen from seawater through a couple different methods.

@imakedookie

2 жыл бұрын

try to wash your coffee mug when you are at dock!!

@h8GW

2 жыл бұрын

@@imakedookie Not sure what you're trying to point out there, but I'm guessing you think that their potable water somehow becomes radioactive, for whatever unfounded reason.

@imakedookie

2 жыл бұрын

@@h8GW i was referencing the habit of submariners being disciplined for unnecessary water waste, as in being reprimanded for rinsing their coffee mug. they will leave the coffee residue for weeks at a time as to not waste water cleaning it. even with nuclear powered facilities, the habit would still remain... the joke wasn't meant for ya

@h8GW

2 жыл бұрын

@@imakedookie Hm. Thanks for the insight, although I would imagine that would be more of a cultural issue than a logistical one. Maybe severe water rationing is a little outdated, or maybe submariners like their new brews to contain some taste from the old one? Kinda like how New Yorkers like hot dog water dirty.

@gregorymalchuk272

2 жыл бұрын

What were the different methods for producing oxygen? I assume electrolysis was one, but what were the others? Also, was the electrolysis used on raw seawater, desalinated water, or something else?

Brine can be a minor issue, they just need to create a long tube with vortex pressure mixing of the surrounding water. I deal with it in my reef tank all the time when adding salt. You add to the sump, not the display. You also dissolve the salt first. If you don't it goes to the bottom and it kills stuff. The brine will dissolve easily but not instantly. It is dumping it all as a solid that is an issue.

It s the first video of the channel that i watch. Finally a good channel where i can dig in the old videos. New subscriber. Keep going bro

The biggest problem i have with their city concept so far is the cloud seeding. Iirc cloud seeding can really screw over large swaths of land downwind of you by interfering with the water cycle. The desalination plant concept itself is actually really cool, and would probably work very efficiently for the first phase of extracting fresh water. I'm not so sure about being able to extract useful minerals from the salt however, but i'm not a wiz-kid when it comes to minerals and extracting things from other things so for all i know it is easier than it sounds for them.

@rchltrrs

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I think cloud seeding is concerning. It just makes me think of so many times that human intervention made more problems than it solved. We don't seem to learn from our mistakes quickly enough. It also makes me wonder how long it will take for water rights agreements to be drawn up for this newer technology. If I am up-stream and I divert a river, I'm denying anyone down-stream a right to water. I think cloud seeding might have similar effects but it will be much harder to figure out where the water is being diverted from.

@InfernosReaper

Жыл бұрын

I'd have thought the biggest problem is that it's a huge resource vampire that is objectively worse than normal cities in every possible way

@Tyiriel

Жыл бұрын

Oh please, that entire city thing is just a joke. Don't even bother spending time thinking about it.

@denkanator

Жыл бұрын

@@rchltrrs yeah this is what china did to Laos, and the Ethiopia with the Nile/Egypt

@dr_birb

Жыл бұрын

There's bajilion of problems with that utter idiotic idea.

I am surprised you didn't include electrodialysis, especially PV powered electrodialysis. Works amazingly well for ground water desalination.

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 жыл бұрын

really good point, I think I have some notes for a follow up. I do have some other water based ideas, especially since I'm starting a series on building the worlds most sustainable home. thank you!

@darrentummon4855

2 жыл бұрын

@@TwoBitDaVinci First time I've seen any of your content. Personally I see the idea of this technology (RO Units) as being wasteful, trendy, and ignorant. And I've commissioned and operated a few of them. Your video demonstrated a basic passive survival technique in the desert, but that's about all its good for. I would suggest you explain the old and unsexy tech of Evaporator Condensers. By using HRU (Heat Recovery Units) to extract waste heat from existing heat sources, such as exhausts from coal boilers, Gas Turbine Generators, Land fill gas driven generators to produce steam. This steam can then be collapsed to create a vacuum. This vacuum package then feeds a shell tube exchanger and with a feed stock such as sea water, you effectively boil off the clean water from the sea water feed stock. Now this technology has been used in chemical plants and on sea going vessels/naval vessels forever. Small RO units are then used as emergency back-up units. The downside of using this technology is that you require "process tech's " who have a basic understanding of the fundamentals of the process and ultimately a industrial commitment to spend money retro fitting HRUs on existing hardware. Where I live, industry in the city is effectively given free water by the state government. So why spend any money. RO Units are like the Hydrogen revolution, sexy and going to save the world. Everyone has forgotten why the world passed over this tech (hydrogen) after the Hindenburg disaster.

@cotterpolt5309

2 жыл бұрын

@@darrentummon4855 and you have links to your business and videos showing us all the work you've done on this? I look forward to seeing all your work..

@darrentummon4855

2 жыл бұрын

@@cotterpolt5309 no videos, but I do have 14 years of experience in using the evaporator condenser principles in the manufacturing of Ammonium nitrate explosives. In the AN process you introduce a 90% solution into a evaporator and boil off the excess water (-42 kpa from memory) until the AN solution has a Melt temperature of 141'C and a fudge temp of 122'C . Again from memory. It's not rocket science. None of it is rocket science, unfortunately in the west we are dumbing down our process techs and tradesmen so they don't"hurt" themselves. As a result, they become less skilled and then hurt themselves.

@justaskin8523

Жыл бұрын

@@cotterpolt5309 Dear Cotter: It's been 11 months, and you haven't responded to Darren's cogent and thoughtful response below. Surely in a year's time you will have done some research of your own, yes?

Excellent Vid. Up here in the BC where I live, Our waste water is treated via "Activated-Sludge Treatment Plants" and the treated water is more along the lines of treated gray-water, wherein it is disinfected but not quite potable, ( BOD-5 is excellent and the pH is close to 8.3, etc)..... that water, the Effluent, isn't returned directly back to the " Receiving Waters" but rather it is pumped uphill and used for irrigation of huge tracts of land. That water in turn percolates back into the soil and then eventually ends up back in the lakes around the area which sustain fish and wildlife. Return of human usage I would guess at 90 %... the rest is going into septic fields and through natural filtration without disinfection back into the Receiving Waters.....Much of this water is currently from commercial businesses where the effluent may contain oils, chemicals, or heavy metals, etc.... And that's a Big issue.... We are also looking into "iMBR type treatment " too.... I digress. Getting back to Desalination,.... Reverse Osmosis, ( RO ), is costly for huge volumes of water processing. Such undertakings in an area where hydro-electric or wind-electric generation to power said plants might be scarce and leaves one with the option of nuclear or coal or diesel power.... None of which is Green....Tidal power, ( Adams turbines or Delta-T ammonia or Tidal wave - generators, per se....), may be a viable solution. That said ,.... With the new(ish) reinstatement of the study of Sodium Sulphate Battery technology, and the reclamation of other elements like Lithium and needed Transition metals, For many countries, Desalination may be worth doing financially, with clean water being the 'Gravy on the plate.' Stay Safe.

This is the first time I've seen the mega city touted as a good idea, or at least highlights the necessity of the technology being used and looking at the positive highlights! I love it, good video.

When I was young, there were four large desalination plants at Freeport Texas. In the late fifties they were dismantled and shipped to Guantanama Cuba. Fidel Castro cut off the fresh water supply to the base. They were rebuilt there for the U. S. Marine Corps. The water was so pure that the Marines had to pour it from container to container through the air to give it taste.

I remember hearing this when I was a kid in the 80s. People were saying we would run out of water and oil by the year 2000. I was also told that Florida would be under water by the late 90s lol

@TwoBitDaVinci

2 жыл бұрын

that stuff is foolish lol... I just believe we are clever enough to find new and betters ways of doing stuff and being more aware of our impacts. I'm a total capitalist

@13253415

2 жыл бұрын

It is an old, established rule: oil will run out in 20-30 years. It works for 100 years now!

@oldrrocr

2 жыл бұрын

I worked in Saudi Arabia in the 1970s; and solar and desalinization was on their 5-year plan - even back then. It is amazing that we in the USA have continued to elect idiots bent of fighting over the "zero-sum pie" when they should have been setting national policies... 🥵🥵🥵

@aemi5929

2 жыл бұрын

@@TwoBitDaVinci salination plays an essential role in ocean currents and ocean life in general. Desalination will likely have disastrous consequences, especially if we attempt to capitalize on the oceans directly. The monetary incentive can’t save the climate and novel technologies won’t save our oceans. We need to reduce what we use and change the way society and individuals operate and gear the world towards an actually greener future

@aemi5929

2 жыл бұрын

Do you know how much work has been done to keep us from the apocalyptic scenarios that alarmed scientists and whistleblowers in the 80s? Thanks to concerted global efforts, we’ve most likely dodged the worst case scenario, now we’re just trying to get the best possible future, though it’s highly unlikely we can skirt the consequences of the past, we can at least minimize it further

Thank you for a most informative program…keep up the good work, stay healthy, forget the razor and continue to watch out for yourself and others…

Such ambitious large-scale projects makes me excited!

Crazy timing on the YT algorithm. I was just discussing our drought issue here in California with someone recently, and he mentioned the desalination plants they had aboard the Navy vessels he had served on and pondered why they are not more widely used amongst the civilian sector. I never considered the brine waste the thermal plants outputted and how you could safely dispose the material. Fascinating and informative video, I'll be sure to share it.

@WeiderMystic

Жыл бұрын

because it's too effective and they can't reasonably make $ off it

@mattk8810

Жыл бұрын

You make salt out of the brine.

@BloodyKnives66

Жыл бұрын

Didn't California just decide to stop production of a new desalination plant? Seems like a terrible idea.

@annedonnellan6876

Жыл бұрын

@@BloodyKnives66 control the water, control the people

@Normacly

Жыл бұрын

@@BloodyKnives66 The planned plant was a bad one. The planned site was at risk of eventually being flood within a few decades if sea level continues to rise. Moreover, the proposed method of processing the water posed too much of a threat to the local ecosystem. Some forgot CA already has approved 11 desalination including the Carlsbad desalination plant, which is the biggest one in the US and been operating since 2015.

I worked on the desalination plant for the Rabigh community. The desalination equipment were plants using in ocean going ships. Plus boiler for providing heat for boiling the sea water. The water droplets were scavengered by a impeller sent to a heatexchanger and then to storage tanks. If I remember right, the water didn't comply to WHO standards, so chemicals were added to bring it up to standards. I also worked on R.O. plants, treating water from Aquifer. The futher the pump when down in the aquifer, the more salty the water got. Really interesting subject 🤔

@michaniewiadomski7911

2 жыл бұрын

I suspect those "WHO standards" prohibited drinking distilled water (which is equal to desalinated water), because through osmosis it flushes you out of microelements, ultimately killing you. So I suppose the standards required adding back around 1mg of brime (or an equivalent of more controlled mix in form of refined chemicals) to an each 1 liter of water.

@nickl5658

Жыл бұрын

@@michaniewiadomski7911 More like there is no chemicals to keep it clean while in transport in the pipes. Water gets contaminated very easily.

Distilled my own water. Got a bottle full of river water connected a tube to it which led to an empty bottle that I had buried underground. Sun evaporated it and the condensation collected in the cooler buried bottle. Felt pretty bad ass

Let’s get this going! Brilliant video btw! New fan here! Greetings from Hollyweird,CA

For the time being, I would prefer to see more support for water recycling. This will enable us to use less total water, but require much less energy than desalination. Furthermore, water recycling will continue to be important even after we go all in on desalination so it’s a great first step. My city recently laid new pipe and uses recycled water in order to water lawns in parks and other public places. Once we finish rolling out water recycling, I’ll be much more supportive of ramping up desalination. Great to see people already thinking about what the most responsible way to do desalination will be!

@dustygreene3335

2 жыл бұрын

Hiw we use our water is vital.

@SaveMoneySavethePlanet

2 жыл бұрын

@@dustygreene3335 absolutely. I’d love to see either option paired with further water efficiency both at the government/corporate level and at the individual level. It’s such a precious resource and we unfortunately squander a lot of what we currently have

@dustygreene3335

2 жыл бұрын

@@SaveMoneySavethePlanet 100% we need to solve many problems holistically.

@ThomasBomb45

2 жыл бұрын

Shower water (if you use 100% eco friendly and compostable soaps) can be used to water plants. Sink water can be used to flush toilets. Etc, etc.

@Dethflash

Жыл бұрын

I saw a video about people living in rural New Mexico. They used things like organic soaps so that they could reuse their water for their greenhouse garden.

Technically, you do not have to use pumps to pump water into solar water evaporizer. If you build it under the sea level, you can pump the water just by opening the valve. And, if you make that chamber airproof, using the fact, that gas have smaller density, you can "pump" fresh water out of it just by using higher pressure by the steam generating.

@benscoles5085

Жыл бұрын

sounds like you have heard of the device noted as a ''water ram'' not as tech as what you mention but some of the same operational qualities, it works on gravity, travel distance, and air compression, i would love to see what you said work, I think it would solve a lot of problems

@ryanmeek4945

Жыл бұрын

On another level, it's probably not wise to put facilities like these below sea level. The Fukushima disaster is a key example as to why we should not put important infrastructure below the water line. Although a desalination plant wouldn't be nearly as disastrous, it's still a good thing to keep in mind when building anything near the ocean.

@mequavis

Жыл бұрын

What if we built a hollow space rope. like a space elevator but just a hollow hose, connect into the ocean with the open end in low earth orbit, the pressure difference would draw water up to the top of the rope, then you could have a second rope filled with reverse osmosis stuff that let gravity just pull it back down to earth, so you could have one set of reverse osmosis in the pressure pipe and another in the gravity shoot, by the time it went all the way up and back down, you got clean water? maybe even make the rope itself the osmosis filter, so clean fresh water flows and falls down the sides, and the crud would flow and fall down the middle....

@samuelbudzinak

Жыл бұрын

@@mequavis No, because inside the rope will be exactly same pressure as outside of the rope. Like atmosphere, pressure is decreasing with higher altitude

@robertorozco2951

Жыл бұрын

@@mequavis is that called rain

Excellent info and video. Your presentation style is amazing. And.. you have a very impressive 5:00 shadow - or even if it's a 2-3 day shadow. I'd stay with it if I were you.

i worked for the USNavy. The cost to make fresh water from a ships stills. was quoted at $4.95 a gallon during the 70s

Saddest thing is that so many areas will pull up ancient ground water, replenished only over centuries, and then use it to irrigate grass with fresh potable water, while at the same time dumping the clean grey water from the sewage system into rivers, because it is "dirty", and then also mandating that people must have these lawns to "keep up the appearance of the neighborhood" as well.

@hippie-io7225

2 жыл бұрын

Great points!

@skeetsmcgrew3282

2 жыл бұрын

I would 100% be down for making watering lawns illegal. Like really illegal

@SeanBZA

2 жыл бұрын

@@skeetsmcgrew3282 For me watering the lawn most of the year not really needed, the rain does it.

@calebmauer1751

2 жыл бұрын

@@skeetsmcgrew3282 Yeah, I live in an area that gets decent rainfall. So what if the grass is brown for a month during the summer? It's 90 degrees out, that's natural. Yet around here we're just dumping thousands of gallons of treated water out for a short lived and relatively minor aesthetic improvement.

@FlyingSagittarius

2 жыл бұрын

Just FYI, sewage is black water, not grey water. It’s not clean enough to water lawns by a long shot.

As I am taking a break from my LEED GA CE course, and worrying about water shortages, getting to net zero energy, and carbon emissions, I watched your video and could not believe the content. It could be the possible answer to these grave issues. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I always enjoy your videos.

@Gator777

2 жыл бұрын

The only way to zero emissions is for every person on earth to be dead. Prove me wrong.

Excellent information gathering, analysis and presentation. Thank you.

I agree with "Admiral Preparedness Prepping". I was raised in San Diego CA. There was a huge desalinization plant - it worked great, but was only experimental.

Just out of curiosity. Once you separate the non salt elements from the brine would it be feasible to then you use the salt elements for Sea Salt? If so then you're actually going more green because you could potentially replace salt mines by using every part of the brine.

@michaelhart7569

Жыл бұрын

I think the main problem is that desalination produces more salt than humans can ever have a use for. Extracting the small amount of the scarcer elements is fine but the salt (essentially just sodium chloride) has to be either returned to the ocean or dumped in huge mounds on solid ground. In the grand scheme of things the ocean is easily able to take back the salty brine after fresh water has been removed, but it is the local effects of this super-salty water that cause the problems. They need to find a way to distribute it over a larger area/volume rather than just dump it back in the ocean in one place. It needs to be mixed back in with the bulk of the ocean by wind, waves, currents and tides rather than being allowed to sink down and collect at the bottom before mixing.

@lanceurwin3368

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelhart7569 As the water runs through the plant (I'm using a Navy System here) the water becomes more and more concentrated with salt (ie. brine). The input salt water is mixed with the discharge brine to dilute it to prevent damage to discharge pumps and piping. I'm not sure if you can set up a system using just brine to make salt unless you want to make it very expensive as the cheaper metals are going to corrode and break down the pipes/pumps.

@michaelhart7569

Жыл бұрын

​@@lanceurwin3368 Yes, that's the sort of system I might have imagined for a plant designed just for desalination. I only mentioned solid material because the narration discussed recovery of other elements and also showed some pictures of crystalline salts. Presumably this would have to include some sort of fractional crystallisation as chemical engineers would always prefer to just work with solutions and fluids where possible, avoiding the issues of handling solids. While I've never been involved with such plants (a process scale-up chemist, not a full blown chemical engineer) I would still guess that many of the older ones were built with little regard to what happens to the brine when returned to the ocean. Perhaps just a few more pipes distributing it over a greater area and with more mixing is all that is required?

@johan8724

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelhart7569 excess salt could be used on icy roads maybe.

@michaelhart7569

Жыл бұрын

​@@johan8724 That certainly seems like an obvious choice. At least for those who live in areas that need roads-deicing. Not so much in places like Saudi Arabia that need desalination plants :) As a side note, I once read that many American states don't use simple salt on their roads. Not so much because of the eutectic point of NaCl, but because it causes more metal corrosion. They use some other inorganic salt. I can't remember which, but I think it was Magnesium-derived. Though not currently a US resident, I recall reading once that you are better off buying a used car in one of the sunshine States rather than their colder northern neighbors, for that reason.

In puru or chile, there is a RO plant being built with a pumped storage and a solar field. The 400 psi pressure diff. will operate the RO plant . The solar will provide the energy. the upper pool will provide the constant pressure for the RO.

@__WJK__

2 жыл бұрын

Good to know! This needs to be shown in a youtube video asap!

I've been asking this for YEARS! The desalinization plant in Carlsbad, CA works well. Yes, it's expensive but worth it.

Great video! I’ve been wondering about this for a while since desalination seems such an obvious solution to a pressing problem.

The desal facility in the city where I live processes the brine by-product by mixing it with partially treated waste water, resulting in a solution that is slightly less salty than that of the ocean. It is then pumped offshore where it is assimilated back into the ocean without adversely affecting the environment.

@lilsabin

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same

@markdennyritner7851

Жыл бұрын

Except that the process requires massive amounts of energy. We need to work MUCH harder at reducing water demand.

@tswrench

Жыл бұрын

@@markdennyritner7851 -- Recent solar installations are helping to carry the load. Reducing water demand in a coastal desert with many already practicing water conservation at levels unheard of elsewhere? Easy to say, I suppose.

@markdennyritner7851

Жыл бұрын

@@tswrench Perhaps developers shouldn't be given easy access to keep pilaging.

@tswrench

Жыл бұрын

@@markdennyritner7851 -- Uh-huh. "Lighten up, Francis." I figured you 'd be back to set the hook you were dragging with your first trolling reply. Take your hands off your hips, stop stamping your feet, and move along. Unless, of course, you're the kinda gal who has to have the last word.

Improving and lowering the cost of desalination would solve many problems. And removing and selling the minerals to help finance the process is a very clever idea.

This was really interesting, thanks for informing!

I just finished building and starting a desalination plant at a rare earth mineral mine in Mountain Pass, California. Very interesting process beginning to end. I've asked myself this question multiple times so I'm exagerado yo hear the answer as to why we don't have more.... but one day we will likely have no other choice but to build a bunch of them. At least that's always been my assumption lol. 👍👍

I've wondered about this for many years. Living in California, I live in a city that's considered always in a drought. We have water restrictions. I have always wondered why one of the richest and most technical places ever allows themselves to be in a drought. I think it's because of rich people who are too scared of hurting their property along their precious beaches. Our lakes are very low and I always wondered why they allow this when we have the know how to have enough water. I really wish the government would incentivise someone to get this going in several areas.

@ArtVandelay00

2 жыл бұрын

That’s because your state is busy with liberalism

@GeoFry3

2 жыл бұрын

The government has shut down every attempt to setup a utilities sized RO plant. Someone proposes it and the environmentalists sue and the govt pulls the permits.

@missingthe80s58

2 жыл бұрын

@@GeoFry3 Give it 5 years, no water and former drug dealers scalping imported water bottles on the street corner....who am I kidding they won't change, they'll hack their way through a sea of endangered penguins and baby seals to tap an ice lake in the Arctic before they let that beach front investment go.

@jw6825

2 жыл бұрын

California dumps its waste water into the Ocean. Start recycling all of this water and those drought and water restrictions go away.

@robertlawrence9000

2 жыл бұрын

@@GeoFry3 that's lame

It's funny, I had actually thought about this before by using the "Power tower" plants to desalinate. It just makes so much sense. Desalination, by either method is a highly energy intensive exercise. RO maybe less so unless you count the membrane materials and the equipment needed. Unless they could figure out a way to recycle the membranes, it will always have a high amount of consumables. Thermal is definitely a more efficient way if you can do it with sustainable energy. I am excited to see this facility progress.

@darrentummon4855

2 жыл бұрын

A far more unfashionable way of producing clean water is through the use of evaporator condensers. These have been used on military and merchant naval ships for probably close to 100 years. ROs are all the rage as they are a package unit and generally in industry we in the west are driven to dumb down our workers, rather than educate them. So water boils at sea level at 100*C. However, if you were to boil water on Mt Everest, it would boil at a lower temperature due to a lower atmospheric pressure. Lower the pressure, the lower the boiling temperature. So what happens is that design engineers on a bulk carrier vessel have a WRU (Wasteheat Recovery Unit - like a radiator in a car) to capture the thermal energy going up the ships exhaust chimney. The temperature of the exhaust of many engines is around 650*C. So if you capture this waste energy (heat) that goes up the stack, you can boil water. This boiled water can then be collapsed to create a vacuum. This vacuum is then fed into a shell tube exchanger with salt water as a feed stock, and here the lighter pure clean water can be boiled off at a much lower temperature than 100*C. This water vapor is then fed through a condenser unit, cooling medium being again sea water, and you end up with fresh clean water out the back end. And all you need for this is a few pressure gauges, a running primary engine for the ship and maybe a centrifugal pump or two. And if you make water that is too clean, the only drama could be that this super clean water could start to strip some salts and trace elements from you body thanks to the process of Reverse Osmosis inside your body.

@foobarmaximus3506

Жыл бұрын

The Earth is literally overloaded and bombarded with "sustainable" energy, from all sides. Geothermal and solar. What else do you need?

There is abundant pure water vapor over the ocean surface. This can be collected by condensation methods deployed on floats or rafts. Wind or waves can power pumps to bring Seawater through old refrigerator coils to cool collectors for a boost in efficiency. Thus no desalination is required to produce tons of pure fresh water.

My grandfather was on a Naval mine-sweeping ship during the late 40's and they had on board a desalination unit. "Plenty of water for everything, at all times", he remarked.

Great video. I'd like to see an examination of other factors related to water usage (i.e. population density, population growth, population migration related to water usage, crop related water consumption including alternatives, etc.). Finally, what happens to my water bottle during recycling? Thanks again.

@helenbarrett5897

Жыл бұрын

Asian citys super dense no problem. Straight to lamd fill, poor countrys straight in the river

@9:10 Seawater contains 0.1 ppm of lithium. If you process 100 million cubic meters of seawater, you get 10 cubic meters of Lithium, or around 5.340 kg. Enough to build around 76 Tesla Model 3's.

@jeroengelder

Жыл бұрын

Thank you, I was searching the comment section for this.

I feel like there's daily things that we use fresh water for that can be replaced by saltine water. Simple one is a toilet, you (usually) don't drink out of it, you send all the water away.

@Skrenja

Жыл бұрын

@Not Expat Joe Fun fact, salt water is actually _recommended_ for pasta by many Italians. So, you're doing it right!

I've been wondering about this... looking forward to video 👍👍👍

I remember learning about desalination for survival purposes when I was very young. From that point on I’ve never understood why we’re not all pouring money into desalination.

@TwoBitDaVinci

Жыл бұрын

agreed

@contrarian604

Жыл бұрын

@@TwoBitDaVinci Desalination of water by any method is no different than the smeltering of aluminum---both processes are very energy intensive. You and I are both middle-aged plus, and not one nuclear reactor has been built in Canada nor the USA since we were both in diapers. Promoting electric cars when base power is produced by coal, or advocating solar energy when there aren't the silver or rare-earth minerals readily available to even come close to supplying what is required, or advocating "hydrogen" when nuclear power.....is hydrogen. If you want to do a segment that goes far down a rabbit hole, then let's discuss why nuclear power has been a pariah for the past half-century for no obvious reason. Look into thorium salt reactors, and modern SMR reactor technology. The world would be much better off making the switch to carbon-free nuclear power, and distributing all this technology to 3rd world countries, for a reliable, affordable carbon-free power source, and also used to power desalination plants worldwide.

@amishgamer9780

Жыл бұрын

there is an opposition against it. An anti-human opposition.

@TheGoat29078

Жыл бұрын

Simple, NIMBY syndrome. You have to build plants to desalinate the water, and nobody wants them in their back yard. Hence the Not In My Back Yard Syndrome.

@RetroRespawn

Жыл бұрын

@@TheGoat29078 I'm unaware of any recent objections to desalination plants just because locals don't like it, but, I'm willing to believe people would be NIMBYs about it.

The incoming cold seawater could be used to accelerate condensation when the dome is cooled from the outside, just let it flow over the dome before it is heated inside from beneath. Smaller units could use parabolic channel reflectors to heat a pipe from below, while being cooled above with lateral exits for the condensate and be eventually more efficient.

@terellcase9231

2 жыл бұрын

That would require a network of piping carrying the cold water possibly in an inverted conical shape maximizing the surface area of the cooled water speeding up the condensation

@erikschiegg68

2 жыл бұрын

@@terellcase9231 exactly, with the parabolic channel, you get the heat underneath. Develop sahara regreening and agriculture with the fresh water.

@foobarmaximus3506

Жыл бұрын

Go back to school, then publish your research. THEN post on KZread.

@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665

Жыл бұрын

@@terellcase9231 Thats essentially the technique used in some DIY mini systems.. look at UN and NGO sponsored desalination devices.

@nicholassimmons9706

Жыл бұрын

Isn't this going to refract the light from the parabolic mirrors and also result in the outside of the dome never heating up, which is exactly what causes the air temperature inside to promote evaporation?

Could drilling down to find geothermal power generation (steam turbine) options be a way to power the pumps for this experimental cityscape, maybe? I know there's been a lot in "science communicator" videos as of late regarding geothermal as a possible renewable energy source if drilling techniques and chamber configurations can be setup correctly... but I understand it's very hit or miss as the conditions for heat and pressure deep underground have to be very stringent and particular...

Thank you for this. We need solutions to our problems, not just doom and gloom about it.

I am a retired 3rd. Class Engineer, and when I was at sea, I was responsible for the Reverse Osmosis machines in order to convert sea water to drinking water and believe me it is very labour-intensive and consumes a lot of power. it would be very costly and require many skilled technicians to produce enough water to supply a city. The pump(s). use very high pressure to propel the sea water through the membranes and %95 percent of the feedwater is returned to source.

@rchokelal

Жыл бұрын

That may be true, but the available fresh water is depleting faster than nature can replenish it. There is no other way forward. Look at all the lakes and aquafers on the West Coast. All almost empty. If you have a better idea, now is the time to speak up.

@nickl5658

Жыл бұрын

​@@rchokelal Do what Singapore does. Use the reverse osmosis technology on sewage water instead of salt water. Sewage water has significantly less impurities than seawater, so it is energetically less demanding to purify. There is the ick factor but people will get over it.

@rchokelal

Жыл бұрын

@@nickl5658 that might be possible, but it important to remember that sewage water is an output. It requires an input to become sewage water. Right now, I don't believe there is enough sewage water to fulfill the fresh water needs. The process you describe is used on the space station, but these type of systems are lossy.

@trevorwesterdahl6245

Жыл бұрын

Our government just spent $1 trillion on Covid where 90%+ of that money never went to Covid at all. Imagine if they used that 90% of the money to solve water problems. Funny how we keep giving more money and get more rules and regulations, but the government hasn't solved a single problem. Water levels... a "crisis". Food supplies... a "crisis"... energy, roads, bridges, education, etc. All a "crisis" Climate change... an "existential threat to humanity". When are people going to figure out: all these "crisis" were created by government. Nobody can name a single problem "solved" by government. Not one. So, why give the the two things that are demanded by government to solve literally every single problem: 1) more money, and 2) more power which equals more rules and regulations? Why? When government creates a committee to solve a problem, if they solve it, they fire themselves. Does that ever make sense? No, it doesn't, but its what they do and its why they will never, ever solve a problem. Every committee is "almost there"... problem will be solved with what? Oh yeah, give more money and lets create even more rules and regulations. The two choices that have never, ever worked. Brilliant!

@josephcoon5809

Жыл бұрын

@@rchokelal There are plenty of other ways forward. Aeroponics can reduce agricultural water usage by up to 95%. Most people are one dimensional when dealing with multi-dimensional problems.

You don't need a heat source to desalinate water. The ideal thing to do with unused desert land would be to dig long shallow trenches for miles and miles and then install a huge primary heat exchanger right at the main pump(s) interface of the inflowing and outflowing seawater (so the dump light brine water is relatively the same temperature as influent seawater). Then in the entire length of trenches, install a dark durable material which lines the bottom of the trench the entire distance. Over the trench install durable clear plastic drip covers sealed over the trench from the outside atmosphere. Along the bottom of the drip covers install catch troughs and intermittent catch tanks with a series of solar driven pumps which tie into a main water line to a central collection facility. Something such as this type of system could be setup in a relatively short period of time, for much less money than expensive technology and generate hundreds of thousand of gallons of fresh water during daylight hours. Since the trench would be a constant flow of seawater from beginning to end, the brine levels would be naturally lighter and less disruptive to the sea. The effluent could also be released much further out into the sea where the water is much deeper and is able to disburse more easily. Also, the main system seawater pumps could also be driven by solar/wind power to make the system self-contained throughout.

@merlepatterson

Жыл бұрын

@@omi_god The desert is more plentiful than forested regions. You wouldn't make a dent with desalinization channels.

@beast36001

Жыл бұрын

wouldnt be enough, key is generate millions of gallons , your plan is flawed, what about land locked areas? in usa , then the states that would do this, would charge the states that dont have sea access, to make your hypothetical desal system.

@merlepatterson

Жыл бұрын

@@beast36001 Any type of desal system wouldn't work in land-locked areas unless long pipelines were built, so saying "your plan is flawed" is the same as saying "all plans are flawed" in this situation.

@johnhimz3832

Жыл бұрын

Merle, I’d like to complement you on all the thought you’ve put into your post. As to the viability of your plan, I have no idea. Most importantly… you have a plan. We need more people thinking and making plans like you have. Thanks for the effort. Keep on trucking… it’s going to take all of us to keep water, energy and peace flowing.

@merlepatterson

Жыл бұрын

@@johnhimz3832 Not so much a "plan" as it is a concept in the form of thinking-out-loud. Thanks for the compliment

even a small fresnel lens can distill water quickly. minerals (especially limestone), can make the taste better like regular fresh water (but distilled water can be used as is).

Every river that flows into the sea is contributing to the water shortage problem, yet no one seems to be addressing that. In many countries, the water is available to be collected and used. All that’s needed is pumping stations above the tidal zone, reservoirs and filtration plants.

Or, you know, just build a solar thermal powerplant, if you already plan to use a concentrated solar array, and then desalinate via its waste heat. This way you can co-produce clean water with energy. And in contrast to PV you get your energy storage basically for free. Also dumping brine in the ocean only becomes a problem if you do it the stupid way. Instead you need to dilute it with more sea water and spread it properly.

@Justabacon284

2 жыл бұрын

you are right ..cogeneration is very efficient 😊

@Cineenvenordquist

2 жыл бұрын

Solar membrane thermal over solar thermal ftw; sodium is light and is wont to move as much as water. Brine back to the deep ocean skips trying to dilute it and corresponds better to shore stewardship. Separating the brine still makes for a giant chlorine loop even if you make minerals again pretty quick.

@dr123hall

Жыл бұрын

Filters clog (R.O.), require uber maintenance, expensive all the way around; mini nukes are manageable, not yet affordable, but tech wise very doable; the subs just offload brine (through torpedo tubes? I really don’t know); I believe the cavitation brine reduction method meets the middle ground here (yes, beyond conjecture I reduced 80k ppm brine from my Kentucky wells to 350ppm) and that was in 1999. Bearcreekresearch Don Hall.

There are so many problems with the Neom concept: 1) As you pointed out earlier, thermal desalination is terribly inefficient. It would be way more efficient and cost effective to use that solar to generate electricity and run an RO system. 2) All desalination plants produce brine. There isn't any magic in Neom's brine that makes it more economical to process into valuable commodities. Anything you do to process that brine is liable to consume more water than was produced in the first place. Desalination is typically meant to produce enough water to sustain agriculture. There simply isn't a market for that much sodium, chloride, etc. to make any exotic means of processing brine without water economically feasible. 3) The dome design isn't even very conducive to solar concentrator heating. It makes so little sense!

@zahhari3170

2 жыл бұрын

At some point we will need to realize long term survivability is more important than profits.

@segalliongaming8925

2 жыл бұрын

@@zahhari3170 Profitability is directly related to sustainability.

@alokozay300

2 жыл бұрын

Thermal desalination is terribly inefficient if you use fossil fuels to evaporate the water, while Neon is using heat from the sun

@TheChenchen

2 жыл бұрын

Molten salt can produce explosion if you let it touch water, can't it be used to generate energy ?

@bl8388

2 жыл бұрын

@@zahhari3170 They're related. "Profits," are the food and water you eat and breathe. They are the warmth to keep grandma and grandpa alive in the middle of the winter. They are the EMT crew that come to save your life after an accident.

Sounds like a lot of promise here! It's nice to see hopeful projects on the horizon.

Nice job on the video I was actually wondering why there weren't more desalination plants. Also related question how cost prohibited would it be to move water from the parts of America that are flooding to the parts of the country in drought?

@TwoBitDaVinci

Жыл бұрын

JMac… are you serious? We are making that exact episode as we speak

@WhatIsMisophonia

Жыл бұрын

Well, China has experimented with something similar, and it's been disastrous. Anytime you divert water, especially to that extent, there's so many infinite variables involved that can cause all variety of ecological issues that may not be foreseeable; plus it's also ridiculously expensive.

I once did a project in grad school involving desalination and argued that one of the best ways to use desalination plants economically should be with power plants since they take seawater and need the conversion to freshwater to preserve the plants. Currently, they thermally pollute by dumping the freshwater back into the oceans, which could be saved for water reserves. I'm assuming these systems have to be financially and energy profitable anyway.

@foobarmaximus3506

Жыл бұрын

Thermal pollution? What the heck are you talking about? It's literally like a drop in the ocean. It does NOT change the temp of the ocean by even a fraction of a degree. Go back to school, study this time - and then publish.

@nickl5658

Жыл бұрын

@@foobarmaximus3506 Nobody scatters the hot water over the entire ocean. They pour it all back in one location and in that one location the water becomes very warm. O2 capacity is reduced and fish die. Manatees in winter love it though. In winter, they all gather near water discharge to keep warm.

@notahotshot

Жыл бұрын

@@foobarmaximus3506, tell us you don't know about localized effects on micro climates without telling us you don't know about localized effects on micro climates.

The byproducts taken out with the water are part of what makes the waters ph livable for fish and plants but also contributes to the flavor and things we humans need aswell . I used to run a twps in my last years in the US Army and one of the coolest things i learned when i first changed MOS was how low of a total dissolved solids factor machines like whats discussed in this video produced, when compared to say a bottle of name brand water like dasani. 150-200 ppm lower. 🤯

@dadbod9776

Жыл бұрын

Someone needs to build a salt battery

I live in Southern California. Most of our water travels for hundreds of miles thru canals, and pipelines. This involves pump stations and thousands of employees to maintain. Very expensive to operate.Seems stupid when the saltwater is next door. 😮😊

Youre a really good presenter, very pleasant to listen and watch

On the mineral mining (from water) idea, I've heard that they do this sometimes from geothermal setups as well. As often the hot water returns with many more minerals than cold water does.

@riverraven7359

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I know gold miners in particular use hydrothermal activity to search for mineral deposits (gold particles get trapped in quartz for example) when the water recedes or changes direction it leaves veins of mineral behind.

Very good informative show. I am impressed and grateful you produced this.

Loved it!!! Thank you

Neom looks like a great idea and I am excited to see it work out.

Here in Victoria (Australia) we built a reverse osmosis desalination plant that has a maximum capacity of 150 billion litres of water a year and it is powered entirely by renewable energy, mostly solar during the day. I think it is the first of three that were planned for the future. It has allowed us to stabilize our dam water levels, after a drought we hit about 16% at the worst point, now we are about 86% or so, leaving a bit of slack for winter/spring rain. I am not sure what they are doing with the waste. It is interesting we have way more solar power than we have consumption for, it would be a good use of the power if you could also extract some valuable minerals like lithium.

@PandaCristos

Жыл бұрын

well there is a slight difference in how they power the plant. it actually uses energy from the grid (since solar energy is currently still unreliable) but then offset it by buying Renewable energy certificate, then the fund is going to facilitate some windfarms or some things. The brine is pumped back to the ocean through diffuse nozzles (to minimise salt concentration around the dumping area) and they made extra long outlet tunnels under seabed to go pass sensitive marine areas! Cheers from Sydney.

It is strange that south park made me think about this because of their recent episode about water in the streaming wars. Of course their solution was crazy and ridiculous. Great video, I hope we start to see some of these projects expand in the western US to help support some of the fresh water issues starting to arise.

Conservation is inadequate. A decade ago we had a ‘drought’ here in the Pacific Northwest. The government spent millions on sending out low flow faucets and shower heads, outlawing watering your lawn, promoting 3 minute showers. At the end of the season they crowed about how many millions of gallons were conserved. What they didn’t tell you is that it amounted to less than 8 hours of flow of just one of a hundred rivers in the area. Conservation is a huge effort for almost no return. Desalination is the best solution.

This video is awesome. It tells what desalination using reverse osmosis can do for the entire world. Let's get started.

And how expensive and at what recovery % are realistic with those trace elements. Seems pie in the sky to me

Great video! If I'm understanding correctly, I think you may have the numbers wrong for the example of extracting Lithium. If 100 million tonnes of sea water is processed each day, and there is ~0.1 parts per million of Lithium, then doing the multiplication (i.e. 100×10^6 × 0.1×10^-6) gives 10 tonnes of Lithium extracted per day. This is then only 10,000kg of Lithium per day not the 10 million kg from the video. Thought of another way, 1 ppm is 1mg/l, and 100 million cubic metres of water = 100 billion litres. So we'd expect 100 billion × ~0.1 mg = 10,000kg Lithium.

@NextGHaHaHa

Жыл бұрын

yes the lithium concentration in this video is orders of Magnitude too high, a single google search gives you 0.1-0.2 ppm Lithium in seawater not 10, it sounded way too good to be true, but it still has potential Edit: the numbers i found for the amount of Li used in a tesla battery was ranging from 10-15kg, based on that if the concentration in seawater is 0.1-0.2 ppm we could extract Li for 833-1666 tesla batterys if we assume 12kg per pack

@acemarcola

Жыл бұрын

It’s a complete scam and they’re looking for investors. It’s a great plot for science fiction though👍 On the upside it could bankrupt Saudi Arabia, that’s why Khashoggi was killed and dismembered by the crown prince, he pointed that out.

@riggmeister

Жыл бұрын

@@acemarcolawho's 'they'?! No need to get conspiratorial! It's not a scam to want to build more and better desalination plants. Hopefully they can all be run with renewable energy in the future. I think this was just one piece of misinformation which unfortunately hasn't been corrected 😕. Probably because Ricky hasn't noticed the few comments pointing it out.

@LeganArabach

Жыл бұрын

@@NextGHaHaHa And all this is assuming that the lithium extraction process is commercially viable. Might be too expensive to render the lithium and cobalt into usable forms, as I'm sure the compounds that contain these elements in the seawater are not usable without further processing.

@NextGHaHaHa

Жыл бұрын

@@LeganArabach true

You do such great, high quality videos!!!

I haven't watched the video yet but I'm going to say what I believe would work: When you lower the pressure on a liquid you also lower the boiling point. It's the process used in refineries so they don't have to use as much heat (heat is costly) to get the same result. Put the water under a vacuum and, as in refining oil, it won't take as much heat to boil it. You can actually boil water at room temperature if you put enough vacuum on it. With nuclear power to heat the water it wouldn't be nearly as costly as using fossil fuels and fossil fuels would create more pollution. Put water under a vacuum and boil it and it becomes a vapor. Salt will not evaporate with the water so when the vapor cools it returns to liquid form and you have fresh water. I don't know how many heat/vacuum facilities you would need to achieve the volume needed to sustain farming and drinking water but this process itself will work.

Great ideas are presented here, and this is the first time that I have heard about LARQ technology. Thank you.

I worked on my PhD and monitored nanoparticles during membrane filtration. The guys from the desalination came to me and I showed them how many small particles there were still in their seawater they considered OK for reverse osmosis... The pretreatment of sea water, to make it suitable for reverse osmosis, takes a lot of energy. And that's the elephant in the room... The water-energy nexus. It takes a lot of energy to desalinate water. Energy is equivalent to oil, and guess what? It takes a lot of water to extract oil. So in short: desalination plants require a lot of energy (we don't have), and energy requires a lot of water (we don't have either). The only way forward is to buffer more fresh water, as the most energy-demanding step (going from salty to fresh water) is done by the sun.

@konradcomrade4845

Жыл бұрын

how about huge floating disks, catching rainfall on the ocean and then bringing it ashore by tankers? waves may be the major difficulty. Why is California suffering from the deepest drought in 1200 years? La Ninia and the combined side-effects of all the windmills on the northern hemisphere; slowing the westerly winds and curbing west to east air circulation, enhancing north-south wind patterns.

@l.d.t.6327

Жыл бұрын

@@konradcomrade4845 I hope (and assume) it's not too late to invest in bigger reservoirs on terra firme. To catch rainfall on the ocean requires enormeous surfaces of your proposed floating disks, while reservoirs on the land (like dammed reservoirs) are catching water from a far larger surface. Ofcourse not all rivers should be dammed (it impacts ecosystems severely), but there is still too much fresh water flowing to the sea in some (wet) periods) in most areas that are now suffering from drought (this may ofcourse not be the case for California).

@ligma6992

Жыл бұрын

couldn't the energy issue be solved by using nuclear reactors

@l.d.t.6327

Жыл бұрын

@@ligma6992 Probably, but then they should start building them, and they aren't doing fast enough at the moment...!

@ligma6992

Жыл бұрын

@@l.d.t.6327 for sure

I sent a proposal thru (via DHS) when "The Wall" was being bid. It was called "The Great American Canal".. From port at San Diego along the border (for the most part) to the Gulf of Mexico... With De-Salinization facilities at the Military base in San Diego, additionally at encroaching rivers (i.e.Colorado), several fresh water reserves along the way and another at the Gulf (for continuity). Even utilized the LA Aqua-duct. Would have eliminated our use of the Panama Canal, delivered massive fresh water to desert areas along the southern border, would have been navigated by the US Coast Guard... Good to see "Someone Got The Memo"... Canal depth was to maintain oceanic depth from both ends... The design was 50 feet wide, 20 feet deep with a 30 foot capacity for overflow from major cities (i.e. LA, Houston, etc) to account for bi-directional floatilla navigation.. All at 1/10 the cost per mile...

Stumbled onto the channel. Love it. Sub’d.

Wow! I like how this video moves right along while delivering lots of interesting, current info. Well done!

I put a large bowl in my kitchen sink and collect any and all water used there. I then pour that water into a bucket and water outside plants. Also, when running pre water for the shower, to get hot. I capture that water into a large plastic mayonnaise jar and add that to the bucket too. I call the bowl in the kitchen my “cowboy bowl,” just like the old cowhands on the ranch, saving every drop of water.

@Sandlin22

Жыл бұрын

And changing nothing

@rickyrodriguez5744

Жыл бұрын

@@Sandlin22 but I am…, I use the water that I payed for and using it to water my plants instead of letting it go down the drain to the treatment plant.

Why are people disliking this?? Because the section on Neon? He didn't even state on opinion that and merely addressed its part on desalination

there is acompany in California already producing fresh water with solar thermal collectors plus extracting minerals from that brine, like fertilzer Mg,K, Ph, K and more

A cheaper solution is to pump cold seawater and use it to condense fresh water from the air. Pumping is cheap, cold ocean water is abundant and there is no brine to deal with. Still, nice video.

@lukedegraaf1186

2 жыл бұрын

Brine is a resource. And good for bricks!

@hopelessdecoy

2 жыл бұрын

I don't know if the amount of condensation would be worth the price of pumping ocean water. Plus when the water warms up you have to pump more and that happens fast

@craignels

2 жыл бұрын

@@hopelessdecoy An excellent observation! I've run the numbers and here in central California where the humidity is relatively low you need to circulate 120 gallons of sea water for every gallon you condense from the air. In St. Croix, which is more tropical, you only need to circulate 37 gallons of sea water for every gallon of fresh water you make. The cost to pump is about 0.2 watt hours per gal. In other words, cheaper than reverse osmosis with no brine. But further, at a power plant that needs cooling water anyway, the pumping is almost free. At its peak, the central California Moss Landing power plant could have produced 12 million gallons per day of fresh water from the cooling water it was already pumping.

@Barskor1

2 жыл бұрын

@@lukedegraaf1186 More information on the bricks, please.

@lukedegraaf1186

2 жыл бұрын

@@Barskor1 I have this stupid idea that carbon could be sorted in limestone, and used as a building product, with good insulation properties. Less avid in the oceans is good for reefs, and takes carbon out of the atmosphere at the same time.

If you extract the same perentage of fresh water, reverse osmosis generates the same amount of brine as thermal distillation. Also the brine from thermal and reverse osmosis is just as useful for mineral extraction as the solar system. If you think about it, the solar system is a thermal system.

@kirkland5674

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, the brine is only an issue if they don’t dilute with seawater first and dump it all in one place.

@noppornwongrassamee8941

2 жыл бұрын

@@kirkland5674 To dump it in multiple places at once thinly enough to not wreck ocean ecosystems is going to require LOADS of transport capacity. It could well be more expensive than the actual desalination plant and would likely either use loads of power/fuel in its own right to power all the transport vehicles required, or requiring the construction of an ocean wide sprinkler system to dispose of the brine.

Solar energy plus desalination is a win-win situation!

I live in Scotland. We have more fresh water than we need or want. Our issue is getting rid of rain water quickly enough, making sure our homes and neighbourhoods don't flood

Combining solar thermal with vacuum distillation to lower the boiling point is definitely the way to go in hot regions. Alternatively, molten salt nuclear for cold regions.

@stevenmaresca9637

Жыл бұрын

I agree..that what we do when we put an air conditioning unit under vacumm. to extract the water in the system.

I've been thinking about desalination plants since middle school, and we still don't have more of them. Also, the slat plains are disappearing. That sodium has a use, if you want to save those useless tracks of land.

@cmw3737

2 жыл бұрын

I don't even know what the slat plains are so certainly not how sodium can help. Any use for sodium that gives it value would help though. Sodium ion batteries were what came to mind but curious about slat plains now.

@Johnny_Shields

2 жыл бұрын

@@cmw3737 That was a typo. Salt plains. They're made of salt and dirt bikers destroy them.

@jeffbybee5207

2 жыл бұрын

The salt flats west of the great salt lake are being eaten up by salt production plant

@3mtech

2 жыл бұрын

Or. We could stop eating salt, filling swimming pools and irrigating golf courses. Better way isnt always most convenient

I think it's valid to say that if desalination plants did become mainstream, that the possible effects of extraction of raw materials could still have unforeseen effects on the marine ecosystem. So to view another habitat as a "golden" opportunity, especially one we know frankly little about it's workings and needs is risky and potentially naive

@jacob7649

Жыл бұрын

Nuclear power is the future

I agree about the shave thing. Bottom half black, top half... brownish/white? There's just something OFF about that. Pick one or the other. Two tone-two bit, just doesn't work. (grins)