its crazy how small time wargames authors that are alone or have one coauthor maybe can write better rules than a billion dollar company

@toastle8005

2 ай бұрын

I’m hoping to become one of them digitally, and I’ve been training myself for years in ‘what not to do when writing rules’ by constantly watching GW’s new editions. Written by entire teams, edited by entire teams, playtested (ostensibly) by many people… and yet, when the 10th Index list released, there were so many things that the ENTIRE community looked at and instantly said; ‘why did you make Wraithknights that cheap’, ‘why did you write that rule that way’, and ‘why is this unit 300 points when it can’t even compete with an 80 point unit from the same faction- how did they even come up with these values’ Things everyone could see in a couple of glances, released by a billion dollar company after years of writing. It’s physically painful to see 10th speed running all of the problems of 8th and 9th, all over again.

@Gorketh

2 ай бұрын

I'm not surprised the two major systems end up bloated and non-functional, that is by design to fit the three year release schedule. I am surprised that smaller systems (esp. Necromunda) have major issues that are not fixed when they are not on the same cycle. Smaller companies generally want to create a game that is functional and will be enjoyed by others so they are invested in making a working system. Also helps with sales. GW has rusted on followers so they get sales despite the rules.

@lostalone9320

2 ай бұрын

But to be fair - It's a lot easier to write a tight, self-contained game than one with a million supplements and new models. GW needs to drive sales and create constant churn. That doesn't mean that they HAVE to write crappy rules, but it does make it a LOT harder. You have to make every new release competitive with everything else that already exists, and that makes balance so damn hard. The real mistake GW makes is that they still keep acting like they are a small designer living in the 1980s where the printed rulebooks are all most players have. Balance (and even enjoyability) will always be difficult for games that are so big and sprawling. So they should embrace being big, and embrace the ability to "live patch" their books digitally. Hell, they could even release broken units to drive sales then fix later.

@kamerionsmith4551

2 ай бұрын

​@@lostalone9320 whelp, they're a billion dollar company. Also one page rules has just as many units + more and they have a fine tuned points system for everything.

@jacktalks5008

2 ай бұрын

Weird how they stay small time

that diagram looks like a summary of how GW failed their seven chakras journey and keep repeating the same karmic cycle

@100acatfishandwillbreakyou2

2 ай бұрын

They will never achieve rules nirvana.

Planned obsolescence, it's that simple. GW makes big $$ everytime a new edition releases. Not just the box sets but all the $50 books (printed in China) getting reprints.

@lostalone9320

2 ай бұрын

I don't even have a problem with planned obsolescence - I used to play Magic The Gathering! It's more that they never take the time to make an edition work well before they start changing it.

You forgot "let every other game system rot so that the hype engine focuses on the new monopose box set"

At this point Im inclined to believe that your chart is their business model and that the purple arrow should be relabeled from “fail” to “willfully refuse/actively ignore.”

@amw5288

2 ай бұрын

Yeah. At this point they don't do this by accident. They have this graph at the office with "how 2 milk infinite money from scrubs" written in the middle

GW can make an edition evergreen but they'd rather resell you the rules

@christopheraaron1255

2 ай бұрын

That's exactly the thing. There was backlash about 6 and 7, lasting 2 years, so now they do it in 3 year cycles. Meanwhile, the MESBG hasn't needed an update or errata in ages.

@DMKA94

2 ай бұрын

​@@christopheraaron1255last major change was when they released the pelannor fields. I don't think they have made any further changes apart from adding all the faq's and errata to the new rulebook

I'll be real with you, if 11th 40k doesn't do not just a step back, but a massive leap way back to 3.5th edition style rules, I will probably completely quit GW as a whole. The problem of the current rule system is starting to directly impact the part of the game I love the most, the hobby. The "I build my list and custom my little dudes" part of the game. The free wargear and proliferation of monopose has decimated my enjoyment of the game (along with literally every single change brought by 10th, which somehow managed to be worst than 9, which somehow managed to be wort than 8 which decided that 40k was now AoS), the creeping wokeness is ruining my enjoyment of the lore and the constant price rise totally destroyed my will to buy anything (I still can't get over the 50CAD +tax pricetag on thos 5 kroot hounds ngl). At some point it will be time to call it quit and spend my conciderable expendable income and minuscule free time on something else, something that actually don't hate me as a customer.

@TopazTiger2000

2 ай бұрын

we will not be missed

@Mr424242424242424242

2 ай бұрын

@@TopazTiger2000 Nah, they'll miss the hell out of at least some of us. Because frankly, the old crusty bastards they're pissing off tend to be the ones making the community events work. They go too far, and their community that is driving much of their cyclical sales is effectively crippled as the old bastards have finally had enough and given up.

@Gorketh

2 ай бұрын

Try historicals. You'll never have your miniatures made redundant. Pick an era, find a nearby playing group and enjoy. I've just pulled the trigger on buying Dead Man's Hand.

@Mr424242424242424242

2 ай бұрын

@@Gorketh Then you might be stuck with HMGS, which is approaching the same levels of GW with regard to being absolutely infuriating.

@DMKA94

2 ай бұрын

​@@GorkethDeadmans hand is a great game, rules are easy to learn and games can be pretty quick

In my Oldmunda group,it's actually fun to spend an hour or two just gaming, not worrying about what will dropped by next week or made invalid by the next edition, it's great. If anyone wants to add a new houserule, we give a trial run, see how it goes, if works, it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't... What could be beter than playing to unwind and have fun, apparently, the very opposite nu-GW (among others) is set against... Edited for lack of proof reading.

@Gorketh

2 ай бұрын

I wish my Necromunda group would play N95 or LRB editions but I'm stuck with N17/23. My Ratskins and Scavvies await a return to the table.

@rutgaurxi7314

2 ай бұрын

@@Gorketh Isn't that version supposed to be quite good fun to play? I have heard good things about it, in a Reddit/ Kirioth sort of way. But I have seen it's no longer in the underhive, rendering it's USP, pointless, as well as butchering fluff in the way that nu-GW wants to...

@Gorketh

2 ай бұрын

@@rutgaurxi7314 It is fun to play. Different from N95 or LRB. My real issues are: 1. Double handed weapons are overpriced and haven't been fixed since N17 (so, no consideration to fixing mistakes + other weapons are whacked). A new rulebook was just released and issues are still present. 2. No Ratskins/Scavvies/Pit Slaves. Scavvies are "sortof" doable with the mutant rules, but no Scalies or Zombies. Pit slaves seem to have been replaced by Ogryns (which I ran and were fun, some players complained they were too tough). 3. Each new book has the special rules and weapons/gear/equipment repeated taking up page space. E.g., each book where flak armour is included includes the full rules for flak armour. 4. Ash wastes wasn't great, and it had campaign books that just weren't interesting and suffered from repeated rules above. 5. More a "my group" issue but people will only play official rules, the fan made rules are scoffed at. Probably need better friends or something. 6. It's lost the "sci-fi western" feel of the old version. I get the Ratskin issue, but a large company like GW could have used it as an opportunity to engage with Native Americans and ask them how or if they'd like to be represented. Show them the past and ask what can be tweaked to make it acceptable. That also becomes a feel good story for them when they release the faction. Anyway, thanks for reading my blog.

@martindixon54

2 ай бұрын

@@Gorketh "engage with Native Americans and ask them how or if they'd like to be represented" Given the Native American reaction to all the American sports teams being renamed because of "historic oppression" (such as the Washington Redskins becoming the Washington Commanders), which was genuine bemusement that snowflake white people were getting offended on their behalf and anger that the teams were being renamed because of it, my guess would be that they wouldn't give a shit no matter what the Ratskins looked like unless they stopped them looking like they could be Native American, then they'd maybe be pissed off that they're being wiped from the history books again in order to protect people who are being offended on their behalf.

Who wants Games Workshop to go bankrupt?

@logy650

2 ай бұрын

Everyone

@markhohenbrink5230

2 ай бұрын

I dont want them to go bankrupt, I want them to learn their lesson and make good games, models, and lore again. If they can't then they should go bankrupt.

@thanksskeletor4812

2 ай бұрын

Damn you care WAY too much lol

@DominatorLegend

2 ай бұрын

Me, but I'd hope a well intentioned private company picks up the remains.

@DarkCT

2 ай бұрын

they did everything possible to push me away, so I wouldn't lose sleep if they did.

I switched to One Page Rules

Theres no way they managed to make the same mistake the exact same way 10+ times in a row. The cycle is intentional and its this 1) release new system with a gimick mechanic (no psychic phase! No morale!) 2) release codex with one or two new units. 3) new units and a few old unviable ones are OP to force people to buy entire new armies (ushoran, cryptguard). Old OP units are nerfed to inefficiency unless its a centerpiece model or eldar jetbike 4) each successive codex has power creep to maintain relevence compared to the last OP thing 5) promise new system to get old armies reinvested in the promise of new units and being powerful again

This cycle is not a bug, it's a feature of their corporate planning.

@MrB1923

2 ай бұрын

Has been for decades.

I really hope GW doesn't do anything stupid like making Female Space Marines. 3D printers are getting better, cheaper and more accessible.

@Varundin

2 ай бұрын

You sound like you want the company to survive. But what for? What do we need them for?

@frawDgnicnaD

2 ай бұрын

At this point we'd be better if the company went thet way of the dodo - would free the IP ​@@Varundin

@alecatnight1540

2 ай бұрын

Wow. Female space marines really is the new ‘40k endtimes inevitable’

@1krani

2 ай бұрын

As Mantic Games have discovered. Some of their larger models are literally several dozen 3d printed parts. Explains why all their stuff costs about what GW's did 10 years ago.

@falsehero2001

2 ай бұрын

@@alecatnight1540it’s always been the line in the sand GW is not meant to cross. I remember it being joked about at least 12 years ago. It’s just now, it’s never been so plausible of a thing to happen.

GW needs to take a Page out of Bolt Actions book and have Standard and Theater rules.

I'm very certain that everybody who is familiar with Games Workshop and their productions can come up with some ideas and/or concepts to improve the public perception of the company, the rule parts of their games and the relationship between the company and their costumers. The problem is: GW has no need to improve any of those aspects. The miniatures are being bought (and yes, I buy them too), the books are being bought and all the big startersets boxes are being bought. GW can increase the already very high prices and the miniatures are still being bought. The company isn't able to fix their supply and stock problems, which are by now going on for literal years. GW spits in the faces of some of their costumers when releasing a codex/battle tome half a year before the new edition arrives and therefore rendering this book useless - or when discarding whole units and rendering the models more or less useless. Despite all of that and many more points the company can count on relevant sales numbers. So unless the vast majority of their costumers stop purchases the products, GW won't change their course in a signfikant way, but will continue - because there isn't an incentive for them to chance.

@TheKenthor

2 ай бұрын

Yup. They have no incentive to change their "Shut up and buy it, nerds" business model.

@logangant7732

2 ай бұрын

The issues with stock are artificial

I feel like the edition change is less about needing to fix a system and more about creating hype to entice new players

Would love to hear more of your thoughts on AoS! To your first point, many previewed elements of 4th edition feel more like a walk-back to me rather than a hard reset with fundamentally different core rules, which we saw between 2nd and 3rd. Many of the previewed faction mechanics keep the flavor that worked in 3rd without some of the more egregious power creep from the end of the edition (can’t wait to run my Nighthaunt). I still think the obsession with a three-year cycle is insane for every game system, but I’m cautiously optimistic for AoS. Also helps tremendously when you have a lead game designer that actually instills confidence.

Feel like it’s time for editions to just end as a concept and instead move towards a living system. Ask 40-50 USD for the army rules as a e-book and maybe put out faction books that are just lore, hobby guides, examples of painted models, and art for people that still want those physical books. When somethings balance is inevitably bungled or something new is coming out you don’t have to invalidate someone’s book purchase by just putting an update out for the e-book. They could even bundle that in with Warhammer plus since they want to force that to be a thing instead of making entire collections of books irrelevant at least every few years if not within the week the book came up for preorder.

@michaelhoule2134

2 ай бұрын

that makes total sense so GW will never do it. They make way to much selling new rule books every 4 years or so.

@calebbarnhouse496

2 ай бұрын

I disagree, editions as a paid event, 100% yes, but the benefit to editions is that it gives a bookmark for coming back later, in 10 years, you could realistically find all the rules and at least something decent to proxy for every edition of the game, but if you move to a final edition, with maybe the occasional overhaul which is an edition without the offical title, no one will care about patch number 1.001.01 and so your basically greatly limiting any abylity to play how it used to be, in addition the editions make for a decent way to get a time to focus on another faction in decent detail, obviously space marines will always get there edition toys, but if you removed the editions structure, that extra modeling budget is not going to be split amongst the factions that need it, it's going to be spent on more space marine lieutenant with bolt pistol and a second bolt pistol, and a space marine lieutenant using 2 bolt pistols as seperate models

@MrSmitejr

2 ай бұрын

This is what just about every non-Games Workshop wargame does things, aside from the fact that the games rules are completely free, with the only real exception being specially printed hardcopy versions. GW won't do it because GW players are stupid enough to pay for rules.

@monkeyinapanzer

2 ай бұрын

@@calebbarnhouse496 feel like the fact they could just kind of put something out whenever they want instead of waiting for the next edition book drop would help mitigate the possibility of factions getting even less focus. Although I don’t doubt a weekly marine release would be a strong possibility and then the 40K in Warhammer 40K stands for the amount of marine lieutenants released in a given year. I do partially, but only partially disagree with the idea of editions being a good way to come back to the old that a final digital edition gets in the way of. I offer this example: let’s say 12th edition 40K is the living edition and it just ends up being a perfectly ok system. Not amazing, but not piss poor. I don’t think you would see that many people saying they sure do miss the days of 10th 8th or even late 7th with that kind of perfectly ok edition. Those sentiments tend to fall to very early Warhammer, 3.5, 6th depending on the army they ran and whatever edition someone happened to start in on with the more modern the editions get the less people are that attached to it or interested in just trying it out. However in a living edition ensuring there are clearly defined period for the system could be done with officially designated patch periods or even campaigns kept up in a supported archive once they are out of season. Now I will be the first to admit, this sounds like an edition system that just takes out the bit of books and armies constantly getting dumpstered and I’m honestly ok with that.

@calebbarnhouse496

2 ай бұрын

@@monkeyinapanzer even if people don't necessarily want to go back, newcomers inherently do want to know what it was like, now they'd probably say oh this is shit after playing, but let's say 12 edition is an OK edition, and then they make changes and they make a decent 13th edition, different, but both equally decent, now people have multiple options for the future, and if you take out the for profit nature of the edition, there's no reason they wouldn't make updates to improve the edition as needed, the edition would be like how it is now in how it functions, except, it'd be free and a new edition isn't aimed at fixing the game, it's aimed at exploring something new, so you have have 12 be the ally edition where they go all the way into exploring how to make allies the best they can be, them 13th is an armor edition, they focus rules on making tanks and similar heavy vehicles fun and flavorful, similar to characters leading squads in 40k again, it wasn't inherently bad when they were seperate, weird for plenty, but they normally stayed near support units anyway so it thematically did the the same thing, now that they are in the units themselves it works differently and of course there is minor issues with transports from it, but that largely comes from a lack of forethought and wanting to keep space marines as arbitrarily split in half as possible

There was an interesting thread on the subreddit for 40k a few days ago where people said they didn't want their new codex anymore, which was a good indicator of what was going on in the system. Codex books obviously have less of a lore section, their real selling point are the points costs and datasheets that almost always invite a first-day patch, and allegedly they're almost consistently worse than the index for the faction in terms of power. What i find interesting is just how much of 40k has been an exercise in trying to save the system after GW broke it. I maintained, for instance, that 5e had the best core rules in the game's history, and if it weren't for the way the codex books were written, that edition would've been fantastic. Every edition since seems to be an attempt to fix things and patch them up, and while that could be done for free, they wouldn't be able to sell a new expensive rulebook, new codex books with the same art (the collector's codex books have the same art in them as 8e's ones), and a premium box set to go with the release. Profit motive's killed this game's enjoyment. No comment on AoS, incidentally. I'm a 6e/7e Fantasy guy.

I do think there's a problem with the edition cycles, but mainly that they're too short. Because codexes are drip fed, it takes nearly two years for every codex to come out. And it leaves a fairly small time between then and when the new edition is about to hit. But so far, 10th edition 40k has avoided power creep. Some codexes are certainly on the stronger side, but it hasn't hit the ridiculous levels of 9th edition. I also think the cycle here doesn't take into account the points changes and balance dataslates that have done a decent job of maintaining the state of the game. And I'm not sure if this is true for AOS, but 40k the end of edition narrative books haven't introduced the sort of bloat that was happening during Psychic Awakening.

@lostalone9320

2 ай бұрын

The drip feed is genuine cancer for good game design. It means that you never know how good/balanced a codex is because the landscape just keeps changing. They never just take another shot within a single edition, so if your army sucks you get to go efff yourself.

It do be like that… all the times.

I’m told that 2ed 40k’s vehicle rules are the bestest thing ever.

@lostalone9320

2 ай бұрын

Oh god, no, absolutely not 🤣🤣🤣 It sounds like a good idea that each vehicle has a completely unique damage table and to hit rules, except that no it doesn't sound like a good idea it sounds like my brain hurts.

@jean-francoiscote5231

15 күн бұрын

Having played a long time 2nd edition. I was the best of times it was the worst of times. Someone about said a return to 3.5. ad I agree 3.5 was about the apex in terms of rules. The idea of each vehicule with it own chart was a good one but it became impractical when you add a lot of vehicules and a lot of damages to manage and a lot of armies around them. But like I said : I was the best of times it was the worst of times.

In 9th edition 40k, you could use some of the 8th edition codexes and supplements. There were so many, though, that GW had to add a list of legal rulebooks to their balance dataslate. Even some 9th edition campaign books were eventually removed from the list.

you can't walk back expansions and codexes because it would lead to a situation where some people are playing with one version of the game while others are not people will be upset if their codex is changed rereleased mid-edition and the rulese are more balanced or worse.

AoS did not need a new edition, it just needed the Battletomes rebalanced. Heck, even 3.0 wasnt needed, AoS 2.0 was a great edition, just needed factions rebalanced

Valrak is talking rumours about a Heresy 3.0 edition on the way (apparently) later this year. I'm somewhat sceptical though. Your thoughts Macca?

@TheOuterCircle

2 ай бұрын

I highly HIGHLY doubt that, to release two tent-pole games in a year isn't done.

@lostalone9320

2 ай бұрын

What do you think about a big revised 2.5 edition though? I mean, 2.0 is hot garbage, and something needs to be done so...

GW has shaken up their formula, for the new AoS edition they are releasing a new beloved Legacy faction at the same time they release the new edition.

IF THEY GOT IT RIGHT, THEY WOULDNT BE ABLE TO SELL THE BOOSTED MINIS. Its not about the narrative, its about competitive lists

If you're not sleeping well it might be because of an old mattress. Replace it every 8-10 years or suffer bad sleep!

@TheOuterCircle

2 ай бұрын

Good mattress, just sleep cycle stuffed from my army days.

@cvangemon1307

2 ай бұрын

@@TheOuterCircle Ah damn, that's going to be much harder to fix :/

I think the changes they're making for AoS 4th actually require a new edition, but this could've been 2nd edition. The previous two editions could've been handled with cleanup.

"Old man yells at clouds". Nobody stops anyone from playing older editions, same for miniatures. Business gonna business. As long as they still have sales, GW won't change anything. AoS needs 4th ed, it's equivalent of 40k 8th ed: everything gets dumped and rewritten, stats are totally reworked, rules touched up, unit roles focused. Centerpiece minis are nice part of AoS, as long as they are not 'must haves' in terms of army lists. What I'd prefer complaining about is current pricing and yearly increases. Other than that GW is fine

New editions are brought out on a fixed commercial cycle. It does not have anything to do with the health of the system. Players just need to grow some balls and realise they can keep playing whatever edition they like best.

"The only way to win is not to play" - Wargames

Paint pots that don't seal properly is just one other example. GW has ZERO soul.

Making the rules digital I believe would greatly help them do things like this. Books are nice don’t get me wrong, but the way they deliver the rules is a bit outdated. Would be nice to have the books as well as the digital but if things were digital then it would mean they could easily modify things without having to make whole expansions or whole rulebooks worthless

GW will never do this because this is actually what they want. They want to sell new editions and expansions every few years. Their real incentive is NOT to make the best version of a game they can or else no one would stop playing that. This is also why I am abandoning 10th edition 40k, that I don't even like very much, and am building my own forever edition of 40k.

Take form ttrpgs mounts are separate entities that way you have the hero stats and then mount stats cause ya the combined crap has made it harder to play for a while

What’s so annoying is the power leap frogging. During 8th edition I was losing most games with ultramarines. Then I get this 2nd codex release that makes my faction oppressive. I had to stop playing space marines because it wasn’t fun for me or my friends. So I had a rough time for a year or so and then couldn’t even have a good game afterwards because it was stupidly OP compared to the other factions my friends played.

Power Creep is an instrument to spark sales.

New editions are a design feature to push sales, just about every game system has fallen to it not just 40K-infinity, warmachine/hordes, X-wing, flames of war etc... the rare exception is classic battle tech. the latter is kept alive by the fan base as the IP holders change over and over as the years go by. they did this by keeping the core mechanics effective the same for over 30 years, keeping interest via official books of optional rules that the player groups can choose to use or not use. combined with the fact you can play in any era or setting with the same models. while at the same time the other systems mentioned dumb down. streamline or otherwise seek broad appeal to draw in new players with every new model, new set of rules and new game mechanics. especially when a game is centered on organized tournament systems. a good game system that doesn't need changing is stagnant from the industries perspective. as the old players reach a point where they do not need to buy anything else to play their force. and they are not forced to rebuy everything in a yearly cycle.

Played a little of 3rd and just like 9th Ed for 40k it needed to streamline and cut off that fat, as a newer player (2020) I love the new rules and look forward to 4th Ed but haven't been around for this cycle of rebirth and abuse lol

Can't keep selling you rules books if they don't keep updating and making new editions.

The answer to all your questions is SALES. New starters are not made because the rules need improving, or the armies rebalancing. They are made because those new starters with enough hype marketing bring in the big bucks. GW doesn't exist to make the best games, they exist to make a margin and pay dividends to its shareholders.

@youngtank4039

2 ай бұрын

GW needs to be bought out and made private.

I'm writing my own ruleset and I'd love your input on it Macca. Could I send it to you for critique? I just have the base ruleset, mostly, finished and I'm working on the first codex.

You make it sound like incompetence... it's not.

What's your thoughts on Trench Crusade?

But Macca, how will that please the shareholders?

GW follows this path deliberately, it’s not accidental it’s made terrible by design so people want and like a new edition. They follow the same circle in 40k. Round and round it goes , it keeps the book churn and model churn and edition churn going. That way they don’t look like the bad guy to people who don’t notice the trends. They plan in bloat and over the top rules so when they release a new edition they can say it’s “ for the health of the game “ when really it’s “ for the health of their bottom line “. Add in some models retired and you have their usual edition burn and churn they’ve perfected.

They literally killed Sigmar for myself and thousands of players and barred us from majority play. Herohammer is crap and their damn codex creep and faqs are a cancer. GW only sells meta chaser fomo, and bloat model count like Primaris and Sigmarines to turn around and make half the line useless garbage forcing you to buy the new hotness every 2-3 years through their live service. No point in buying into it anymore. Whatever I print for less I have less attachment too.

i design games, i helped write the Long War alternative to 40k. i'm a big fan of AOS and have supported it for a while. It has pretty elegant design. They have butchered that design in 4.0. AOS did not need a new edition. it needed refinement of its various Battletomes and its various shit expansions to be made optional, non-playable.

New edition every 3 years or so is what completely killed my interest in 40k and AoS. I have work and household stuff to do. I have the money to buy shit but my time is at a premium now. GW simply lost me with "you need to relearn the game every so often" attitude. No I dont. I will just play old versions or simply play other games made by other companies.

They seem really adept at rescuing defeat from the jaws of victory. 3rd Ed started off strong. The new coherency rules brought interest and tactics to positioning. And then we got Galletian Champions or whatever it was called that utterly negated positioning and turned it into 40ks mass blob combat. Now we’re going even more in that direction with 3” melee ranges + in range of friend in melee. So now positioning becomes utterly pointless and we’re just spamming dice. I give up. I wanted to like this game. I like the models, I like the lore, but the insistence on making the gameplay more and more brain dead just kills it for me.

Personally I really like new editions and new rules. The only thing I want is faction balance.

I just realised age of sigmar, came out right around the time all the weird sigma male meme/philosphy shit came around, Connected? It’s the age of sigma, the age of whatever the fuck that means anyway

Why not branch out a community edition. I see absolutely no reason to go into a open alpha that will suck front to back. 40k - none of my factions have stable-release rules (index = alpha release, doesn't count.) TOW is just out, most factions have not even gotten their models. Now AoS goes into that undefined and unrefined state too. Getting tired of this stuff.

Gdubs is a miniatures company, their rules are just there to make folks buy more miniatures. And with their fomo box sets, overpowered factions and bloated rules they play right into that interest. Or in short: they make great minis, but horrible rules.

Would gw loose hype if they released bata rules? We do not know what the new fancy unit is going to look like but we know roughly how it is going to work. At least that way once it is in the book it should be about right.

@lostalone9320

2 ай бұрын

If they put out beta rules without revealing the model, that would let us all test it out and once the rules are good they can show us this cool model and suddenly we want to buy it.

joever

cant belive people just dont play opr.

Lets have classic editions like they do with video games. I have no interest at all in 40k as it stands but i would go back editions and play. Thats why i love 30k, its 40k a few editions ago.

@rogaldorn8519

2 ай бұрын

Did you not buy them when they were released? They don’t stop working, so you could even just buy them 2nd hand for next to nothing.

@lostalone9320

2 ай бұрын

Second hand only works if you can find all the books you need, which is very very hard, and harder to find codexes in good condition. Piracy only gets you so far. A pack of 2nd edition books that are cleaned up, nice high quality scans would be great.

@rogaldorn8519

2 ай бұрын

@@lostalone9320 the fact you want to play second edition and don’t have second edition tells me all I need to know.

The whole edition to edition nature is very tiresome with a whole rearrange for no reason other than simply promising it will be better. The only thing that I like about 10th edition 40k is the expansion of the toughness and strength chart other than that everything else is a watered downgrade to the system. I don't play Sigmar but I assume it's really unnecessary if all the conversations I'm hearing about it.

I love the fact that so many people make a hobby out of critiquing games workshop and yet somehow they don't use this as an opportunity to find other games from smaller authors and companies that provide a more consumer friendly and cost-effective experience. To me a lot of people who have a hate boner for games workshop or just fans that are too addicted to ever let go and try something else for once

@Uioper804

2 ай бұрын

While I do understand this take. GW game system is such that I can walk into any hobby store and someone will be playing it. Cant say that about much else unfortunately

@toastle8005

2 ай бұрын

More because they’ve got so much money, they’re the face of the hobby to a lot of beginners (who never make it past their terrible first experience, I’ve met a lot of them locally), and people still want to see 40k handled well. At this point, a lot of people I know are returning to old editions, playing OPR, or slowly starting to write a hybrid of old edition fluff/flavour and alternating activations. Anything to avoid being forced to play 10th.

@cthuludreams1

2 ай бұрын

For me the answer is simple. I don't care about historical games, nor do I care for the background/lore of any of GWs competitors. The only one that comes close for my tastes is Battletech and Catalyst are like 10x as lame a company as GW is right now.

@noblegalifreyan4551

2 ай бұрын

@@Uioper804 that's the same logic Fortnite and Call of duty fans have. No matter how awful the services get they continue to buy because it's convenient. It's pathetic.

@noblegalifreyan4551

2 ай бұрын

@@toastle8005 playing systems that are using Warhammer models still contribute to GWs near monopoly over wargaming. So many people would rather play a game that is socially accepted rather than branch out and try other model lines. Content creators do the same as they get less engagement whenever they do something non Warhammer

Flesh Eater Courts was so ridiculous that the release got me out of AoS with their 3rd ed release. The cycle kills.

First

So for anyone wondering why this is happening, this is what we in the biz call 'capitalism', gotta get the money somehow.

@toastle8005

2 ай бұрын

…except they don’t. This isn’t just ‘capitalism’, this is incompetent capitalism, and driven by investors. If you want an example, look at Epic- or Legions Imperialis. The current lore for 40k has record-sized Ork Waaagh’s across the galaxy, coalescing under the psychic lighthouse of Gazghkull. Tyranid planetary invasions, sweeping toward Terra. The Great Rift sees entire Daemonic legions overtaking planets, and Chaos crusades everywhere. Necron awakenings mean entire Tombworld phalanxes are marching to war, mass-producing Canoptek war machines. It is the perfect time, setting and excuse for Warhammer 40,000 in Epic Scale. Every single one of these Xenos and Chaos factions would sell like hotcakes. It would be the best example of smart capitalism- give the players what they want for their money, you get buckets of money, investors happy, you happy, blah blah blah. What did they do? Epic…. Horus Heresy. To cash in on a book series that’s about to end. The setting with at most: Space marine legions (made interesting by their varied armour, customisable characters and legion-unique units, none of which you can easily show in Epic scale), Admech/Darkmech, Solar Auxilia, Imperial army and Daemons. That’s it. I love the 30k setting, but for Epic armies, that’s all you could manage, and most people would play Legions, with no unique expression or rules, and it would get boring. Why? Why did GW pass up on the opportunity to sell Orks, Daemons, Eldar, Necrons, T’au, Tyranids and Imperial Guard in Epic scale? Because in short-term thinking, they inexplicably decided to limit themselves to 30k space marine civil war. Absolutely unthinkable to anyone with a shred of common sense. Piles of customer cash on the table, locked out in a single, perplexing decision. My problem with GW isn’t that they’re daring to make money as a business- it’s that they’re *genuinely TERRIBLE* AT MAKING MONEY.

@stevem4105

2 ай бұрын

the word capitalism is actually meaningless. this is really just plain old incompetence and greed from people wearing the remains of a beloved franchise as a skinsuit. the original talent has gone and the new people don't really understand the lore, customer or product.

@sagacity1071

2 ай бұрын

Privately owned business also make lots of money without the need of subhuman shareholders

@kapitankapital6580

2 ай бұрын

​@@stevem4105 just because you don't understand what it means doesn't make it meaningless.

@stevem4105

2 ай бұрын

@@kapitankapital6580 lol

God this channel is so negative it’s insane!

@brycemcewen6146

2 ай бұрын

God forbid people don't suck GWs balls

@toastle8005

2 ай бұрын

Yeah, how dare he *checks notes* point out basic reality! 🤬 Does he have any idea how many people are trying to convince themselves everything GW’s doing to them is fine?! He stands to destroy months of their hard work convincing themselves, in an instant!! Lock him up for reckless and dangerous use of statistics with intent to make a point, malicious asking of discomforting questions, and predicting the lifespan of 10th edition without a Citadel-branded permit.

@corvus_armatura7595

2 ай бұрын

Gotta consoom more bro just consoom a bit more bro. It'll be good I swear fr fr

@sagacity1071

2 ай бұрын

Then go back to valrak and get HyPeD about everything.

@Gorketh

2 ай бұрын

Was he incorrect?

Yeah basically how it works. Age of Sigmar is not needed period, especially another edition. 4th already as well? Fuckign hell..