Challenge: Give your best excuses and....... go!

@wesleymitchell2460

Ай бұрын

Ferrus Manus was supposed to be the Warmaster, anyway.

@hironagamaki9744

Ай бұрын

Hmm... It's GW standard tactic to buff something to boost sales then nerf them and watch Ferrus Manus players lose their head? Not much of an excuse I suppose

@Professor_Skinky

Ай бұрын

Ferrus Manus wasn't intended to be in the book anyway because you can only use him for one specific battle of the Horus Heresy which was supposed to be covered in the second campaign book for the third edition of the game scheduled for spring 2026. The initial plan was to give him legends rules until then but someone complained and so they let some intern write ad hoc rules.

@DeusExMachina10001

Ай бұрын

Vulkan got nuked during the Drop Site Massacre. He and all his Firedrakes got smoked, which clearly means he had no re-rolls against Blast and Template weapons :P

@MechanidMechanid

Ай бұрын

Excuses wise: each unit must have been designed in a vacuum with little to no comparison between them. Primarchs being asymmetrical is a good thing as it represents lore and creates gameplay differences, but when it’s not reflected in the points it creates bad feeling at best and game imbalances at worst. :( Failing that, whoever did the proof read looked at them and said”print that bitch”.

If Ferrus was written like this... how was he the first to die?

@doomguy9049

Ай бұрын

He let his emotions get the better of him and... lost his head... 😆

@doom1609

Ай бұрын

Chaos bullshit hacks is the only reason he lost.

I’m convinced that they switched the melee profiles of Dawnbringer and Forgebreaker and didn’t want to admit it

19:06 "When he is wounded by a flame, melta, plasma or volkite so hot weapons not las weapons cuz las isn't hot. Lasers are not hot. Only melta, flamer, volkite and plasma are hot. Lascannons not hot, cool, very cool to the touch actually. Pleasant." I'm dead.😂😂💀

@volz4103

Ай бұрын

I've argued that Lascannons should count as hot since early 90s 2nd ed with the Eldar Avatar, but no one would let me 😢

For reals though, great comparative analysis. Shines a light on the failing of the rules writers and their inability to address a mechanical disparity on units that are not at all obscure. I'd add, as a further justification to your position it isn't just the financial investment. In this hobby (and I use that word intentionally), we spend an incredible amount of time realizing the 'game', so it can happen. It isn't a $100 video game we buy and boot up to be entertained by. And yet, the rules and in this case, bugs, are managed worse. Pathetic.gif

@TheOuterCircle

Ай бұрын

That's the real issue, the mechanical disparity, it's so easy to balance the raw stats, so when the raw stats are higher, let alone the special rules, AND the fact that both units fill the same exact role and position, it's so bizarre how it happened. Negligence? Malice? Favouritisim?

@DeusExMachina10001

Ай бұрын

@@TheOuterCircle Favoritism combined with seperate people probably having written the rules for the different legions without talking to each other. I can't imagine the people who wrote Vulkan and Ferrus ever looked at each other's primarch rules before the book was published.

The fact they are similar points with such different functionality highlights how little gw thinks. The heavy issue really is the icing because its such a basic fundamental cock up.

The Primarch rules in general are just obnoxious in how little they coincide with the fluff. There's no excuse for Sanguinius losing to most of his brothers 1v1, or Daemon Fulgrim being worse than normal Fulgrim. Or Dorn having WS8.

@abbadonslostarms-kbd1393

Ай бұрын

Or Khan ws7

@calebbarnhouse496

Ай бұрын

Dorn is to busy wearing his magic pain glove to have good weapon strength

@ShadowGhost0117

Ай бұрын

I feel similar when looking at the Lion. He’s a real solid beatstick but lacks when it comes to what he gives his army. Basically he’s a strong beatstick with no solid army buffs, which doesn’t make sense given that the Lion was one of the best Tacticians.

@abbadonslostarms-kbd1393

Ай бұрын

@alexyoblick at least the lion can slap. Ws8, s7 and int7 is huge and his sword can harm everything in the game. His lack of buff ability is odd,though. But far from the worst issue with the various primarchs

@ShadowGhost0117

Ай бұрын

@@abbadonslostarms-kbd1393 that’s what I’m saying. He’s not bad, but could give out better buffs.

Hi! I've been a big fan for a while, and I'm curious about the topic of blackshield warbands. I see you've made a video about them, but it was 6 years ago, and I was wondering if you have any plans to make an updated one. Thank you, and keep up the great work!

Personally I'm chuffed being an Iron Hands player. Years of those smug little "hurr, your Primarch died in the lore, durr" shittery makes it all the more cathartic to watch Ferrus smear other Primarchs across the board like jam. Feels good to have a model on top/near the top for a change. I'd rather a model feel like a Primarch. That doesn't mean I disagree on the consistency front. Feel free to give the rest a mixture of 2/3 brutality and other special rules to allow them to easily slot into command squads as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather buff the bad than nerf the good.

Sometimes youll look at two units and just feel sad.

@williamtimonen6814

Ай бұрын

This video is a tragedy.

@williamtimonen6814

Ай бұрын

Also when it comes to the ”artificer VS techmarine” thing I think that would be totally fine if the artificer part was actually represented on Vulkans datasheet. Like with a ”gift of the primarch” rule where the sergeant of any unit he joins get some benefit or something to represent him crafting tools. But as it is its really bad.

I'm salty that Curze is only S6. You could at least give his claws rending 4+ or something. His psy power is trash. Trying to do Curze vs the Lion is always a stomp.

@DeusExMachina10001

Ай бұрын

Curze is stupid good in this edition but he's good for completely the wrong reasons. He should not be a buffing character; even Angron hated his legion less than Curze did. He should be a CQC monster with some sort of ambush flavor.

@_the_eversor_lad_

Ай бұрын

As of right now Curze is pretty good because he hands night Vision out like candy. And he's fast. Fast primarchs are always better on tabletop because of versatility. But I agree, He should be far stronger in CQC and have some sort of ambush gimmick.

Yeah 2.0 could use a decently sized update (somewhere along the lines of Panoptica). Also, hoping for the conversion video soon

im convinced that in playtesting brutal was roll x dice for each wound if any fail you cop the wound and was changed last minute to the aborition it is now, Pretty much any fight between big centre piece models now comes down to whom has the most brutal,

@rogaldorn8519

Ай бұрын

Wtf is an “aborition”? 😂

Vulkan is a perpetual and physically he’s the strongest primarch. He’s also supposed to be an incredible smith. His rules should highlight these aspects but for some reason they do not. Basically whoever wrote his rules didn’t care to learn anything about Vulkan, and yes, it appears to be lazy and unprofessional

Always found it odd Vulkans hammer has no btutal, Perturabo's got eorse and sanguinius spear doesnt have reach. The stats are all over the place. Khan at ws 7 is just rude. Worldbreaker is s10 ap2 B2 and unwieldy..which feels off compared to other big hammer types.

@tomgardner2253

Ай бұрын

Dorns a better swordsmen than the Khagan guys

@10:05 my group plays it like that and it makes the rule worthwhile and not absolutely insane. When you think about it, "current" Brutal may aswell just multiply the models attacks. For example Ferros having 21 Attacks, while blenders like Corax having 11.

I am so glad my group sticks with Mournival back in 1.0.

@_the_eversor_lad_

Ай бұрын

You did the right thing

If Vulkan's hammer had a special rule giving it two options: Brutal (2) at initiative and Brutal (4) with unwieldy it would probably be reasonable. Give him a choice, in a thematic way. If you go first you had better kill him quickly, because if you don't he will absolutely ruin your day.

Cheers from the Triangle Heresy Macca! Brutal, like reactions, are a rule in the game that on the surface like the idea of but the execution was so botched. I generally don't wish for an edition flip so fast but a 2.5 or 3.0 can't come fast enough.

Good points Macca. Maybe do a ranking of best Primarchs as written? Sounds like Russ was your testing point and Ferrus Manus took care of him easily, is Manus the best then?

Because i just heard this for the first time a couple nights ago: now this is coming from the 40k side of things: but there seems to be (at least) 2 writing teams for rules. If that's the case it's obvious that Ferrus and Vulkan were given to different teams. And that there's nobody do keep the team inline woth each other.

Look, I will give you a like and not watch the video simply due to the fact that thinking about HH2.0 rules just makes me sad.

I dont think you have read a book, and im not talking Warhammer

I'll do what I've done for years now. Play the game and make changes with the group I play with to balance it myself. And not give them a dime no matter how many new models I pick up. 2nd hand, better 3d prints etc. And if no one will correct this games 3rd party or GWs. I'll just keep house rules going.

And the Horus Heresy trainwreck keeps on chugging along....

@chadmrrsn

Ай бұрын

Remember when HH had a pretty good edition with 9 black campaign books, Pepperidge Farm Remembers

@jusztinnemeti6380

Ай бұрын

@@chadmrrsn them good 'ol days is gone now. They ain't never coming back.

@chadmrrsn

Ай бұрын

@jusztinnemeti6380 Sadly, you're right

I'm not joking when I say, the poor rules writing has directly affected my will to finish my army and play 30k

Why would you buy a primark who dies right at the start of the horus herasy, especially as its a more "historic" game. Because he has Overpowered rules.

Lazyness and overlook rules have always existed in warhammer products, and considering you play good money for this books one could expect a little bit of more effort il rules writing. Having said that gamewise if brutal would be nerfed to be just 1 I think would be quite fair

I do wonder why some units get the rule they do. The Atrapos phase cutter, nice stats until you see its cumbersome so it makes the weapon instantly garbage. As for tbe Primarchs, just make all of them immune from brutal

I think Alpharius is very bad in this edition. They took away the skills and increased the cost. Thank you for the video!

It actually makes complete sense that Ferrus Manus can beat pretty much anyone. Just like the bumblebee that supposedly shouldn't be able to fly due to it's mass but does it anyway because it doesn't know that, Ferrus has never seen a Primarch die. He believes himself to be invincible. The other Primarchs suffer from heavy post-Ferrus-symptoms and that's why even Forgebreaker 2.0 is much worse than it's predecessor. Damn these rules are crap, haha

well, having m7 ws7 bs6 s7 t7 w6 i6 a6 ld10 sv2+ as a baseline would be preferable, afterwards +1 for some primarchs. ferrus, vulkan, gulliman for example arent warriors, they should stick with the basic profile above and get some gear and support stuff, while the lion and russ get combat related extra stats. khans theme is speed, why not having him init 8, instead of 6+1, thats flavourful. but there needs to be consistency, all these profiles are aparently made by different people without knowing other profiles. the good thing by making all rules at once, is they can make all profiles consistent, but they always change one thing (in every gw game) and dont adjust everything else, thats why we always get shit. ferrus has an array of weapons, thats neat, his two-handed non-twohanded brutal hammer is broken, contemptor level dumb writing, thats the whole problem, people writing the rules dont consider the whole rulesystem and everything in it, if you cant keep the whole system in mind, you are a bad worker, its your everyday work, it doesnt take that long to learn everything about this game, thats your job. otherwise stick with a modular system, baselines for orientation, and let the few people which know what they do write primarchs, which need unique rules for flavour.

I wish they gave them other strengths like army buffs or retinue buffs or like re-rolls or something different from the standard stat buffs to offset their shitty rules.

Can we get the pt4 to the legion series pls

🧔‍♀🔄🐺 _"Mmmmmmmmmmmmm - _*_MISTAKE!‼"_* ( ~ 'Lichon Colony' RLM c. 2013)

I swear if these rumors of a new edition already on the horizon or a "2.5" update are true I'm GOING TO LOSE MY SHIT. Cause you know sure as shit there's gonna be a new rulebook for sale and they can't even release a single impactful FAQ in two years. There are strengths in 2.0 but army balance and consistency between similar units are glaring weaknesses.

A 6+ fnp is actually +20% survivability since anyone who rolls a 6 once has a chance to roll a 6 again

wouldn't he never get an armor save against melta weapons? they're ap1.

Dang this sucks man, but great video. Hubris won't allow reason to be heard

Nah we should just all go back to first Edition lmao

To be fair Maca Ferris dose have iron hands so maybe they don’t need to be armored 😂

Drop Vulkan to 350points and you have an argument for his mediocrity. It is definitely writing bias. Ferrus in the lore is strong, a very good general but is pretty trash when it comes to fighting/ using his brain, also like you said look at their models and the weapons. Potentially giving Vulkan a 2+ get up with x amount of wounds when he dies or his 1.0 reroll IWND. Others definitely need rebalancing for logical reasons. Bird boi got wrecked in 2.0 most of his weapons stayed the same but his stats and rules just got obliterated. I run the sword (for the attacks) and have a destroyer squad or 2 nearby to help him get the instant death with it. You also need to look at the unit costs in the armies as a whole, Salamander units are expensive as hell (they are all pretty powerful if used right though) meaning you always have a smaller force, taking Vulkan means its even smaller and not much benefit for it. But GW only care about 2 legions at the minute, if you aint yellow or sea green take a seat, youre gonna be waiting a while.

GW isnt going to fix printed rules. Comunity or bust.

ah yes, nitpicking over specific GW numbers classic fan behavior

I would say the biggest problem with the primarchs is that GW treat instant death and brutal as equals on their weapons. As we know that's simply not true. What I would give to have the lions sword gain brutal.

feed the youtube algorithm

I'm going to be contrarian here, but I think brutal as a rule is totally fine. The problem is the platform it comes with. Are there any brutal weapons that are not at minimum S8 AP2? Ferrus would be fine if the hammer was S6.

I am just sitting here with my one shitty Ultramarine rite of war, at least my primarch ain't this bad...

I'm all about Blood Angels 🩸, Although Sanguinius does suck on the table top it's still always exciting to use him. I just never go in with a winning mind set, and what's up with his pistol being one shot xD. It bother's me but at the same time I'm happy just to be able to use my Primearch and roll dice with the boys. Awesome video as always 👍. imzy -

@TheOuterCircle

Ай бұрын

Damn you, now I want fish and chips!

@DeusExMachina10001

Ай бұрын

There's no excuse for Sanguinius being as bad as he is. His performance against Daemon Angron and Chaos Avatar Horus during the Siege firmly established him as the single most powerful duelist, yet in the game he's not even in the top 10. Plus you can't even run him with a decent retinue; basically the best he's got is a jump pack command squad.

@Dlishfishportmelbourne

Ай бұрын

@@TheOuterCircle ahaha your always welcome friend