“I may be out of spells, but I am not out of shells”

@badgamemaster

9 күн бұрын

"I would like to see you... the GUN Golem!" I used my 9th level spells to allowed the boring single shot gun to fire many more times... sometime about warping time and space...

@mridlon1634

6 күн бұрын

“This is my BROOM-STICK!!!”

The first question you need to answer is “What is the nature of magic?” And that will define the rest of the argument.

@xPumaFangx

11 күн бұрын

In our game world it is used to replace modern things.

@ShizaruBloodrayne

11 күн бұрын

Also, what helps determine the system of magic too is asking if the setting is a universe or multiverse? Are souls eternal or is life finite? Are we our bodies or are our bodies a vessel in which we reside through life and then the energy splits upon death, resulting in the physical energy vessel decaying and being spun back into the physical life cycles while the other half, the conscious soul goes into an afterlife? Or is life more solipsistic and everything outside the self is but a projection/reflection of the self? All of this would determine how energy flows between life, death, other worlds and dimensions.

@divineantiwokegangster

7 күн бұрын

magic = divine imperative, divine Talentation

@deker0954

7 күн бұрын

The nature of majik is the nature of witchcraft. To influence without confrontation.

@lordtachanka903

6 күн бұрын

“What is a witch?” - Wizard Walsh

>watching lord of the rings >check KZread notifs >see that my favorite dwarf/gnome also uploaded Life is good

@wojszach4443

11 күн бұрын

funny thing that yesterday i was rewatching two towers and now i woke up for our favourite mountain dweller

@Eugene-tm8fm

11 күн бұрын

Man I was just watching the first half of two towers earlier tonight. I must say, Gandalf fighting the Balrog is the best movie opening of all time

@wojszach4443

11 күн бұрын

@@Eugene-tm8fm before summer i was camping with friends and two of them were constantly grilling things so i called them merry and pippin and do we do lord of the rings watch togethers, ah yes 3 am ideas

@Eugene-tm8fm

11 күн бұрын

@@wojszach4443 nice, that’s the life

@yuhaturi3329

11 күн бұрын

fr

Wizard: I spent decades perfecting my firebo…*bang* Mercenary: yah yah, hard to cast spells with a hole in your wizard cap

@Dogman262

11 күн бұрын

As if a wizard that exists around guns wouldnt have a ward against high speed projectiles

@warrenokuma7264

11 күн бұрын

@@Dogman262 Then you enchant the bullets.

@warrenokuma7264

11 күн бұрын

Depending on the spell a flechette would ignore the spell, then you do a sword pack or arrow bane spell.

@ClockworkGearhead

10 күн бұрын

@@Dogman262 Why are we pretending wizards wouldn't only use guns, but enchant them to be better? It's not like wizards are stupid.

@Dogman262

10 күн бұрын

@@ClockworkGearhead I'd imagine for the same reason they arent depicted as magical crossbow or longbowmen, because they would be something else if they focused their magic on a weapon. Like a spellsword or in this case spell gunner

Magic can give someone power. But a gun can give that power to everyone.

@batteredskullsummit9854

5 күн бұрын

There's plenty of ways they're not op or can be restricted

@batteredskullsummit9854

5 күн бұрын

Have the reload take 2 rounds, misfire chance, expensive ammo, training requirement, etc.

@batteredskullsummit9854

5 күн бұрын

Firearms are just big heavy clubs to anyone who lacks the knowledge or materials to use them

"I thought wizards hated guns?! Why are you using one, too?!" "I enchanted my gun to shoot nukes. Checkmate."

@LCCWPresents

5 күн бұрын

Wizards aren’t useless in this case, tge ergon puts it best…. You have wizards to battle other wizards, but enough foot soldiers in a battlefield can alter a war in small ways, which is why in the ergon books you have a dragon rider lead the army, but still have armies following the dragon riders.

@dragoninthewest1

4 күн бұрын

​@LCCWPresents the sword of truth series was much the same. Wizards would combat other wizards. Something that might also exists are Mage Breakers, spec ops groups specifically designed to take down wizards.

Guns would actually make sense for the wizards themselves as backup weapons. Since they require far less training than other weapons, a wizard who spends most of his time on studying magic would still be able to pick one up and be a reasonably effective without taking too much time away from his main pursuit. A wheellock pistol hidden within the wizard's robes could be a nasty surprise for some enemy who thinks he's safe because he prepared anti-magic defenses.

Why I like Warhammer Fantasy which is more Early Modern than Medieval

@krinkrin5982

10 күн бұрын

Funnily enough, the argument still holds, as it was the magically resistant dwarves that invented the first firearms.

@dyfrigshandy

10 күн бұрын

​@@krinkrin5982no, it was cathay

@thatprofessorguy8316

9 күн бұрын

@@dyfrigshandyIt was the Sky Titans

@395leandro

7 күн бұрын

Funnily enough there was a bigger prevalence of guns (both siege and handguns) during the Late Middle Ages than the early Modern Period. During the 1300's the use of guns was much more prevalent than during the 1500's and early 1600's. You'll only see guns overpowering the might of the heavy cavalry and massed melee infantry in the later parts of the 1600's, having learned the lessons from Gustavus Adolphus, father of modern warfare, and even during the 1700's you'll still see the heavy cavalry being the most powerful part of an army, which started to be beaten by formations such as the Spanish Tercio, which used a combined force of pikemen and musketeers. If I had to choose a period that reminds me the most of Warhammer Fantasy it would be the the 1400's Central Europe, which saw the advent of the full plate knight in combination with the apex of firearms before their resurgence 200 years later.

@c.antoniojohnson7114

3 күн бұрын

​@@395leandroNice Reference of the great Swedish General,he developed staged volleys. One line would fire,then reload as the second line advanced and fired.

Warhammer fantasy is a early modern period esc world. It makes early firearms look so cool. The dwarves take this to a new level too.

One intangible factor that affected Magic vs Science in many of my old D&D campaigns involved the perceptions and politics of the players themselves. Over the years, I've noticed that "Magic" seems to be a more comfortable concept for certain players to digest, while "Guns" just make them uncomfortable. And, of course, the reverse has also held true; albeit with a different sort of player. Some people just find the Pointy-hatted wizard to be a silly trope, while others don't want to see Cowboys in Camelot. Others still are perfectly fine with both. My solution to this is a homebrew campaign setting with cyclical historical periods. In some eras, fantasy-based "Magic" holds the upper hand, while others heavily feature the widespread usage of flintlocks and cannons. Here's my basic outline: 1.) Corruptible figures will always seek absolute power, and once they master the forces of "Magic", nothing can stop them from doing as they please. The less-powerful must develop skills and weaponry of their own to counter the advantage of these Wizard-Kings, while the Wizard-Kings seek to stamp out the development of science in order to maintain control of an ignorant labor pool. This leads to a global confrontation of blackpowder vs black magic. 2.) After the "Dark Age" that follows the destruction of the Wizard-Kings, valiant knights and heroes must arise to defend the weak in a broken world without order while remnants of the olden days run wild. Ancient wisdom is lost and "Wizardry" is viewed as something dark and evil. 3.) The pendulum of history swings back in favor of a more balanced world. Fresh minds rediscover ancient secrets and appropriate them in new ways to elevate society out of superstitious barbarism without repeating the mistakes of the past. 4.) Those with the greater vision notice the inherent patterns of History. Rather than aquiring power for its own sake or rebelling against said power, they seek to maintain a delicate balance while softly developing Humanity itself, all in the fragile hope that we'll mature as a species and become something greater... 5.) The dream is broken and new Wizard-kings take over. Rinse and repeat.

@jackknifevideoworks

9 күн бұрын

this is very cool. so your world basically swings between low and high fantasy?

@thomriley1036

9 күн бұрын

@@jackknifevideoworks Thanks. Yes, that's the basics. I borrowed a lot of these concepts from books and things. Michael Moorcock's 'Eternal Champion' (Elric, Hawkmoon, Corum...) books, Robert Jordan's 'Wheel of Time' and Frank Herbert's 'Dune' series all have characters who are continuously reborn into different time periods. For my old D&D campaign setting I drew up a chart that illustrates the time cycle as a sort of literal Yin-Yang. The world is our world, but a mirror opposite of it always exists on the "Other Side" of History. Different doorways and means of traveling between the mirrored worlds exist. So, if the players exist in an idylic paradise on one side of the door, a dark and hellish dystopia surely exists in the other. Some examples of Tropes I've used have been visitors from "The Other Side" being mistaken for beings like Angels, Aliens, Elves etc on "This Side". The Elves (as such) are in fact the hyper-evolved descendants of Humans like us. Several of them visited ancient Ireland via a time-shifting Island called Hy-Brasil, and that's where tales of the Tuatha Dé Danann came from, which in turn inspired our popular conceptions of "Elves".

@blkgardner

6 күн бұрын

Magic itself is a technology. Simply put, how would a DnD wizard work without spell scrolls, and how would spell scrolls work without writing? Divine and innate casters could exist in a pre-literate society, but not wizards proper. In fact, I would question if the pointy-hatted wizard would even exist in a world with divine and innate spell casters. How did the first wizard cast the first spell? I would imagine that it would have been an inefficient casting, involving unnecessary complexity because the last 10 apprentices who took a shortcut wound up casting fireball on themselves. If a wizard is simply an inefficient version of an innate-casting sorcerer, there would be little need of wizards. In fact, I could see them being suppressed by divine-magic cleric kings, and arcane casting to remain a niche school until the industrial era, when science discovers the nature of the magic.

@thomriley1036

6 күн бұрын

​@@blkgardner You're not wrong. This is just the cyclical pattern that I adapted for my own homebrew campaign setting, and I don't necessarily follow the current 5e D&D rules for all these things. My campaigns have been running since 2e AD&D, settling comfortably into 3e/3.5/Pathfinder, and I've adopted quite a bit of the Magic system from Dungeon Crawl Classics (DCC), where failure to cast spells responsibly will result in dire consquences. I do treat "Magic" as a Science all its own. What makes the "Magical" Sciences different from subjects like Chemistry or Physics is that they will require certain logistical studies and insights that aren't readily apparent. They function off poorly understood universal forces that take centuries of applied experimentation to even notice, let alone master. Much as the Gun replaced the Bow through ease of training, it takes many years for one of my "Wizard" types to even cast their first Magic Missile. In an average Human lifetime, we'd only be able to reliably reproduce one or two "Spells" that would seem magical to the uninitiated. Those few who could even perform this feat (without blowing themselves up) would need to be prohibitively Intelligent, Perceptive and above all else Persistent. In my histories, the very first Wizards were the nigh-immortal Tuatha Dé Danann/"Elves" whose lives are measured in Millennia. They're the ones who first noticed the cyclical patterns of history, charted doorways and passages between times, and wrote down realiable methods for teaching "Magic" to shorter-lived peoples. It was their visitation and meddling in our own time that first lead to stories of our own Merlins, Rhiannons, Druids and all the various Pointy Hatted witches and wizards. Now, "Divine Magic" is something else entirely. I don't personally call that "Magic." Chosen Ones don't "Cast Spells", they Perform Miracles. In my campaign, one cannot simply go to Cleric School and earn a degree in performing the will of God. That's something that occurs only rarely and on a truly Biblical scale. I treat this very much in the way of Moses, Elric, or Paul Atreides. It's something huge that will change the course of history. Most Churches in my campaign were founded because of a single individual Performing Miracles many centuries beforehand, which in turn set precedents of right, wrong and superstition. The Priests and Leaders of these Religions may claim some kinship or authority granted by proximity to said figures, but they cannot bestow any sort of genuine Divine Power themselves. In one of my campaign's eras, there's a prolonged civil war between a declining empire of knights and "Magic" users and a rising state of puritanical industrialists inspired by Oliver Cromwell's New Model Army.

@Space-1255

4 күн бұрын

This is a sick way you built your world!

If anything, in a fantasy setting with wizards guns would be _more_ likely to occur! Not only would alchemy yield actually impressive results but also average folks would now have a very pressing need for easy projectile weapons. The issue of peasants being bullied by knights, samurai, or other equivalent elite fighters, would be way worse and involve way more projectile attacks with questionable wizards taking their place and roaming the land. And with alchemy yielding actually useful results, people would tinker with it way more and try way more exotic things, considering some people would inevitably discover stuff like recipes for gold or healing or whatnot encouraging others. And also, an accidentally explosive result would just be seen as yet another useful alchemical creation and people would get right to work finding uses for it. And whats to say that there wouldn't be some alternative, magical explosive powder which would make firearms way more powerful and practical early on? Even in today's world, many societies never invented or adopted guns, but it was inevitable enough that it was developed at least once and spread. In realistic fantasy all these needs would trigger its inevitable invention and many societies would end up adopting it.

@colbyboucher6391

11 күн бұрын

I agree. Firearms don't require an industrial revolution and alchemists running around everywhere would expedite their development. You'd really get stuck in the 17th century when, if this is the sort of magic that makes certain people's lives quite easy, the upper class would have little to no reason to invest in manufacturing things that'd only matter to people poorer than them.

@captainnyet9855

11 күн бұрын

In a wworld with powerful magic/alchemy think we'd be seeing a lot more bombs/grenades, rockets and flamethrowers; not neccesarily guns though; they'd still develop eventually (guns are essentially a development from alchemical flame-throwers) but when alchemical fire becomes more effective it is entirely possible that guns will only develop slowly, as they would take much longer to develop into something actually better than alternatie pyrochemical options.

@colbyboucher6391

11 күн бұрын

@@captainnyet9855 You _do_ realize firearms were already around in the early 1400s right

@captainnyet9855

11 күн бұрын

@@colbyboucher6391 yes, i know; only about 300 years after gunpowder started being used in warfare; the point I'm making is that firearms development might be slower when alternative weapons (rockets, flame throwers, bombs etc.) become more powerful than they were historically.

@StuffandThings_

11 күн бұрын

@@captainnyet9855 Not necessarily, Greek Fire was pretty good and was basically an early flamethrower, but ended up falling out of use even as guns continued to develop. Even today we have really great flame based weapons, bombs, grenades, and rockets in modern warfare and yet guns are still the staple of any army.

I hear the wizards cancel tech argument... and well, there shouldn't be much of anything... Lots of traps, weapons and other tools even of the medieval age shouldn't exist either then. Such a high society could potentially fear them too.

Vary well argued. I usually just point out the economics/logistics to justify the development and adoption of some type of rifle. What is more practical? A life time investment into training and keeping a mage corp loyal, or arming pesent conscripts and drilling them for a month with weapons you can collect after the war is over.

@PJDAltamirus0425

9 күн бұрын

Eh, magic would still be around, it is more versatile. Guns are at the end of the day, just extremely efficent ways to do one job, putting holes into people. A magican is essentially having the periodical table at your command. Magican's are essentially combat chemists. A world with magic and firearms... guns would obviously play the more dominant combat roles... but imagine how usefull to a military campaign disarming traps, giving people nightvision, purifying water....... instant growing food or just instantly charginging a warmachince with a controlled lightning spell would be.

@Beuwen_The_Dragon

8 күн бұрын

@@PJDAltamirus0425while magic would certainly still be around, it would still simultaneously exist in a world where the non-magical people would be in an arms race to ever attempt to gain equal footing. Granted, magic users would always continue to have an advantage over nonmagical beings.

@PJDAltamirus0425

8 күн бұрын

@@Beuwen_The_Dragon Yeah, but why invest a huge into making ttractors to move dirt when some guy with a scroll can just use magic to do it. Magic has more non combat uses than firearms do.

@Space-1255

4 күн бұрын

​@@PJDAltamirus0425 It ultimately depends on how scarce and how accepted by society magic users are. If they're a dime a dozen, then it's totally reasonable to believe one can be hired for relatively cheap to do labor-intensive tasks in an afternoon at most. However, the more rare and/or less accepted they are by their world's society, the less likely it is they'll be able and willing to help commoners, necessitating the need for a nonmagical way to do that task. With that in mind, even if sheer labor could solve that task, there's still a few incentives for people to try to develop something to make it easier: They want to sell the machine / knowledge of the process, they could do it just to make it easier for themselves, or they could experiment around just for the fun of it.

The biggest issue with guns in fantasy (particularly in ttrpgs) is 2 fold. The first is due to many years of media reinforcing stereotypes there is a commonly accepted genre that we think of Fantasy. The second is the vast majority of players that ASK for guns in their games always want some OP weapon that follows real world physics, despite the rest of the game being abstracted.

@spnked9516

10 күн бұрын

I think it mainly just stems from world building just being a secondary concern for a lot of people who write stories - be it for pen and paper RPGs, video games, books, or movies. A lot of people tend to just focus on the stories they want to tell, making the places they're set in take something of a backseat. This isn't a condemnation of this sort of writing, just an observation. Most people hardly understand how the real world works or its history, so I wouldn't expect them to consider the environmental, cultural, political, or economic circumstances necessary for the development and use of firearms in a fictional story. They see the works of people who came before them, say "oh that's cool", and use elements of those for their own work.

@jasonfurumetarualkemisto5917

10 күн бұрын

@@spnked9516 I wholeheartedly agree

I always like the idea of Magical society’s creating analog versions of modern technology. Like the gun, say instead of explosive powder they used a small fire ball spell to launch the projectile down the barrel. And taking some creative liberties said spell was engraved in tiny runes on the mechanism that is completed by a single rune on a spring powered hammmer.

Had a hard time focusing, I NEED that HAT! It is Spectacular!

@Sergeant_Tofu

11 күн бұрын

It has the same vibe as the Colovian fur helm.

I happen to like firearms & dont really see an issue in using them. As an aside though, I once was an occultists myself & occult only means hidden. The dividing line between science & magic is the mass understanding of how it works. Once everyone knows, it ceases to be hidden & the mystery leaves it.

The Great Georgian Dorf has uploaded again! Praise be to his vertically-impeded name!

In Ralf Bakshi's movie Wizards, the good guy takes out his rival with a sleight of hand magic trick. Pulls a Luger from his sleeve and shoots Black wolf three times through the chest. Magic. Works.

@Beuwen_The_Dragon

8 күн бұрын

That is a film I haven’t thought about in a long long time. ^.-.^

In a world with magicians that can light a candle with the snap of a finger, I wouldn’t want to be the one holding the powder horn or stand within 100 meters of a powder keg…

"Any wizard bright enough to survive for five minutes was also bright enough to realize that if there was any power in demonology, then it lay with the demons. Using it for your own purposes would be like trying to beat mice to death with a rattlesnake." ― Eric by Terry Pratchett

I think the real difference between science and magic is understanding. There’s the TVtropes page “sufficiently analyzed magic,” which is the inverse of Clark’s third law on technology and magic. Your videos are always so much fun. Edit: Replication is important too ofc.

Just wanted to tell you how much I truly enjoy listening to you your videos. I love how much enthusiasm you have for this content. A fan from Wyoming

@thebordoshow

7 күн бұрын

My dream was to finally find people willing to listen to my ramblings, happy to have reached you

I like firearms in any setting because average folks have a better chance at defending themselves

@Jimalcoatl

11 күн бұрын

Yeah. I think if there are an elite group of wizards, the non-wizards would be highly incentivized to develop arms that could counter them.

@jgr7487

10 күн бұрын

@@PALACIO254 I like your idea, but I don't think it would work. The same way Archmages are quest givers because they have more important things to do, lines of gunmen would act as a first line of defence. However, the same way Archmages do take action against very important threats, they would consider a revolt against the mageocracy the most important threat.

@Beuwen_The_Dragon

8 күн бұрын

⁠@@jgr7487 Well while guns are powerful, even in medieval Ages, they were still limited in range, accuracy, reliability, and rate of fire. This is why for many centuries, Guns were only used as supplemental weapons in warfare. Primary weapons were still spears, Pikes, Halberds, Bows and Crossbows. If anything, the only real advantage firearms would give over other weapons is Armour defeating capabilities. So most magic users really wouldn’t see guns as any more or less dangerous to them or their status as any other ranger weapon. At best, large field cannon and ship’s guns would be more the game changers, rather than small firearms.

@jgr7487

8 күн бұрын

@@Beuwen_The_Dragon let's not forget that handguns were the result of miniaturizing cannons.

@jgr7487

8 күн бұрын

@@Beuwen_The_Dragon I did mention all those issues you commented about in another comment in this section.

"Bent Lightning by its balls" is an incredible quote that I'm totally stealing

"You don't need firepower when you have fire powers."

So I feel like the need for firearms might still arise. Because in most universes learning magic/being a wizard takes years of study. So if a conflict were to break out a lord may have a handful of wizards at most. So I think people would be interested in giving their hordes of peasants the same destructive capability as a wizard. There is a really cool game called "Arcanum" where there were to countries who went to war. One of them used knights and powerful wizards, and the other side had maybe a few wizards but mostly conscripts who they spent a few weeks training. The guys with guns won hadly

Guns are magic!

@KudoRedfox

10 күн бұрын

Enchanted guns are magic²

That museum looks amazing I'd love to see more of it.

An aside: In Glenn Cook’s Black Company novels, later in the series, when they are fighting against mages controlling the ethereal shadow-souls of dead men (which are immune to mundane weapons), the mercenary mages engineer magical bamboo poles that with a set amount of fireballs that can be “shot” from them. The advent of these weapons quickly changes the way war is fought by the mercenary company. The primary limiting factor to the poles is that wizards have to craft them.

Very good

Very insightful!

"Wizards don't want you to know this!"

Loving your channel. Keep posting.

lol I love the way you said that. The lightning administrate in the sky . lol! God bless you sir!

The gerogian weapons museum is awesome!! David lets you touch and hold everything you can see and you can wear armor and take photos ❤ it's tucked away in the underground wine museum in a cool corner 😁

I like the Powder Mage explanation that Wizards are literally allergic to gunpowder.

You have a ton of interesting takes on fantasy, hope your channel grows!

Funny enough, in current dnd lore, the push towards firearms is being made by clerics whose god loves popping schematics into people's heads

Im so glad we live in this era of fantasy acceptance and cosplay so that all our dwarf brothers feel comfortable not hiding anymore 😀 16:32

As I said, on the last video, a lot of authors, don’t like firearms, because whenever firearms show up in a fantasy setting, it usually signals at the fantasy part of the world is dying. And will inevitably be replaced by our industrial world. That was part of the whole story of Joe Abercrombie‘s first law trilogy . Where a fantasy world is being dragged into an Industrial Revolution. With everything magical, kicking and screaming and fighting to prevent it, and eventually failing.

Brilliant show, thank you for sharing your Great Work, I appreciate your efforts.

Nice breakdown! Subbed for more.

Very very well done!

People forget there are a lot of drawbacks to early firearms, hence why they were mainly battlefield weapons early on.

Your discussion got my mind wandering and I came up with a new idea related to the idea of culture developing around demand. Although it was a long and winding path that holds only a small relation to your discussion. (which i enjoyed very much!) I came up with the idea of adapting the German tale of Siegfried slaying Fafnir and gaining his power through bathing in his blood (not all versions agree on this), and I decided to take the curse of the gold to turn people into dragons and make it to where Siegfried's bloodline is cursed to turn into dragons if they are within the sight of gold, like a werewolf. So then these people of Siegfried blood decide to isolate themselves and form a new society based on avoiding gold, they instead value silver, iron, and brass, becoming expert smiths and swearing oaths on silver rings. Becoming a society centered around trading and bartering with their warriors being paid in silver and iron when asked to fight for their king. Rumors of the warriors going mad in the presence of gold becomes legend as any unfortunate enemy who wears gold upon a battlefield is never seen again, with survivors reporting a berserk rage taking hold of the knights with eyes of red and gold flaring as they fight everyone in reach to secure the gold for themselves, even attacking one another. Such warriors who succumb to this madness are exiled and often head North into barren snowfields to die alone or join their bewitched kin who tunnel and burn beneath the snow and ice in search of more gold.

Like you, I am not really a soccer fan either, but I am also a fan of Georgia!😊

I think the problem is, people add modern things to fantasy settings. Though no one minds when magic is added to any setting. So it seems like implementation is the problem rather than the existence thereof.

@techpriest6962

9 күн бұрын

My company is working on a Dark Fantasy setting with late Victorian Era technology. (Inspired by Bloodborne) Trains, Repeaters, Elevators, etc. All of which existed around the late 1870's alongside the use of sabers and calvary in history. In the companies setting, 1870's technology is a normal part of society while medieval elements like armor-smithing and bladesmithing are still valuable. With mystical elements that are implemented into everyday life and technology like light crystals. Why? Because the threat of the setting is not other humans it is the undead. So many technologies phased out by firearms are still valuable in an era where you can not kill many monsters unless you decapitate them or pierce their heart. Unlike many settings that force technology and fantasy, the goal is the seamless inclusion of both in a way that makes it feel believable.

If you are not into football, what are you into? rugby?

Thank you very much for sharing your ideas and interpretations, you comment on a couple of very interesting things. I'am taking note 👍 Also you seem like a very nice/affable guy. Really a good dwarf. This is the first video that the current inscrutable and unquestionable mystical will (the KZread algorithm) has decided to recommend your channel to me. Instant subscription.

Goated drip my dude. I posit that actually a magic setting might actually encourage innovation so as to let non magical people fight back against the magical. Taking out a dragon would be tough without cannons.

You have had a lot of time to think about this 🤗

"before wizards had toilets they would just go wherever and magic their droppings away"- cannon in harry potter.

I am creating a series of animatics, characters designs, etc for my animation portfolio. One of the main ideas i'm working on is a high-fantasy story set in a world where humans have developed gunpowder to counter elven magic. After seeing the thumbnail of this video I decided you are going to be one of the characters. You are now a half elven powder shaman named Bordo the Old. You have no saying in this.

I like how the old game Arcanum answered this question. In that setting magicians can't use technology such as firearms because they blow up in their hands if they try So the magic users couldn't develop such weapons if they wanted to. So magic and technology were developed in parallel to each other. People lacking magical talent followed the path of alchemy and those who did learned magic.

I kinda like to imagine an alchemist or wizard would be the kind of person who knows how to make more potent blackpowder, and use magic enchantments to replace some of the less reliable and more time consuming mechanisms for operating something like, say, a *matchlock arquebus* which fires with literally a smoldering match cord. You might replace the cord with, say, a magic device that all it does is make a spark when activated and you've gotten rid of the chance of misfire and the need to prime a pan. Alchemists are known for trying to transmute lead, and primitive guns happen to use cast lead balls as ammunition, so I can see alchemical enchantments affecting the ammunition in various ways in more high level fantasy.

3 words Tactical Breaching Wizards! and dont forget that suppressor for the wand.

The often overlooked air guns have been around nearly as long as gunpowder weapons. I believe that air cannons were developed around the 15th century as well. Air guns in fantasy intrigue me, as hardly anyone puts them in settings.

In the book I'm writing, guns have been invented. Despite mages and magic being rather common use. I've built up a history where guns, at first, were thought of as 'cowardly' but have since been used in combination with enchantment to be incredibly powerful. Most nations have arquebus esque guns, but the nation in the book still use something more akin to an ancient Chinese fire lance.

If I remember right, in the lore of Forgotten Realms there is a group whom stop technology (one of the being Elminster) as they don't want a single kingdom to become to powerful and go full Empire...

Love your Man Cave!

*I LOVE THIS CHANNEL!!!* 😆

Hello from Ukraine, my Georgian friend. Your videos very warm and interesting to watch

OH! You're the caucasian dwarf guy! I loved that video! I just thought a funny gnome man was talking about magic for funnies

In my setting, the presence of unique materials which partially and sometimes entirely block magic exist. It's an arms race between science and magic, because both can counter each other. Salt, elder bark, cold iron, plus magical metals, etcetera all provide protection.

@GenJuhru

8 күн бұрын

In that world, can/does magic make ice (lowering temperature, soft science) or magic mimics ice (elements are conjured, like poof: ice spears)?

Fun stuff! In my game setting, elemental magic is common and thus steam powered guns firing stone balls are a thing. Performance is not quite as good as a black powder pistol, but it is easier to maintain and use since the propellant and ammo are summoned rather than loaded. This does put a hard limit on the rate of fire.

@Apple_Apporu

5 күн бұрын

Why not a rune etched inside the very end of a barrel that produces air or a small explosion to propell a projectile?

@toddzircher6168

5 күн бұрын

@@Apple_Apporu My magi-tech guns work along those lines although they are runes etched in crystals via a ritual. Fire, water, and air are summoned for the propellant and earth (stone) is summoned for the projectile There is a fifth crystal that acts as a magic accumulator which is part of the trigger for the assembly. So while non-magical people can use guns, the relative high cost and resources needed limit their use. Bows and crossbows are still a thing.

I want a hat like that!

Counter argument: Slings existed before bows, yet bows were invented and adopted above it. Why? it takes longer to train a slinger than a bowman. When bows were the default ranged weapon, crossbows were nonetheless invented even though bows are cheaper, can fire faster, and further. Why? it takes longer to train a bowman than a crossbowman. Early guns were just as dangerous to the operator than the intended target, inaccurate, had a short range, and were awkward to fire, yet they've replaced both bows and crossbows. Why? It requires almost no training to wield a firearm. Humans are notorious for trying to find easier ways for doing things, and all magic would do, is expose them to a vast array of things that they would like to do without the special talents of a wizard or mage, or spend a lifetime learning to cast themselves.

@80krauser

11 күн бұрын

No slings just weren't sufficiently powerful enough to defeat armor after a time. Once heavier armor became more prevalent you needed the power of bows and crossbows and then firearms. But even then slings kept limping along through the Medieval period to toss early hand grenades. They were used this way in the Spanish Civil War and probably even to the modern day. Literal children were taught to be crack shots with slings to guard livestock and crops. You arent wrong with crossbows and later firearms however.

@orangutanjuice

11 күн бұрын

@@80krauser The big factor that lead to slings not being in widespread use is that it's extremely hard to become accurate with one, unless you start practicing with one as a child. I have been throwing sling for over two decades now, and can attest that even though I can generate quite a lot of power and range, accuracy to any degree and consistency is something that eludes me, the same goes for almost all youtubers whom I've watched, with only one or two notable exceptions. Replacing trained slingers lost in battle thus becomes near impossible, unless you have time to wait for the next generation to come of age. Using lead shot for sling ammunition vastly improves it's efficacy, as was done historically.

@nevisysbryd7450

11 күн бұрын

​@@orangutanjuice There is another factor in the nature of formations and the strategy of warfare as a whole. Slingers declined around the same time that battlefield tactics transitioned towards much more sense, rigid formations, and slingers require a lot more operating room than bows, javelins, etc, making them less suitable for those sorts of formations.

@nevisysbryd7450

10 күн бұрын

@kittythepet485 Contrary to cinema depictions, arrow volleys appear to have been extremely rare. Arrows were largely shot directly at short to medium-range.

So, end of guns, with a new creation. It resonates with the gunpowder and brass, and turns bullets into remote detanated booms. So it's dangerous to even hold a gun. Haven't had bullets in my work yet, but I found a blinding method. It uses glass

@alphonsobutlakiv789

2 күн бұрын

Was a random phanomanon that turned me into this. Odd set of secomstanses

Pov you tryed to get a discount from the gnome weapon monger by ofering him magical herbs but now hes just babbling about reality from an outside prospective

I haven’t watched the video yet but I’ve always addressed firearms in fantasy with four words: Rod of Magic Missile

Literally just finished reading " men at arms" where the ankh morpork city eatch run around the city trying to stop a rogue assassin whose found the "Gonne" and it causing trouble. Hilarity ensues

I imagine a world exactly like ours, except we’ve had wizards since the dawn of time. As civilization progresses and we discover better tech, the wizards are little by little displaced and having a harder time figuring out how to sell their services. Firearms replaced all the medieval war wizards, and they had to move into Divination, grumbling the whole time. Then computer algorithms, CCTV and large language models reduced the need for haruspexes and crystal balls and prophecies, and all these high-paying wizarding jobs are just disappearing.

@GenJuhru

8 күн бұрын

Technology just made making fire, ice, lightning(electricity) & moving earth convenient, safer and much cheaper. And most importantly, reproduction is also profitable so--and since "money is the root of all evil", you'll have some idea with the fate of the wizards.

I agree. Another reason might be because its because its almost "peasant alchemy". Any normal human with no magical talent and who knows the formula can make gunpowder. Its worth noting that rockets came before guns. Maybe the mages supplied rockets for signaling and some servant working in the magician's factory learned the formula and figured out that if you reverse the rocket and stuff rocks down the tube you can cause them to fly out at high speed. Also remember people like Leonardo were not just inventors, scientists and artists, they were military engineers and that's what paid the bills. And once the technology became known it would be very attractive to the professional warriors as it made having to go up against an evil mage more survivable.

guns make the common man as powerful as any sorcerer/knight/man-at-arms. it is in the best interest of the gentry and guilds that conduct violent acts, to make sure the lowest classes have no way of getting their hands on such an equalizer. god created all men, sam colt made them equal.

One of the coolest metal miniatures I have seen is a wizard with a sub-machine gun.

@GenJuhru

8 күн бұрын

An mp5?

@dante001ish

8 күн бұрын

@@GenJuhru Looked more like a Sten it's an old miniature.

War hammer has a medieval fantasy where magic and guns are in the world as a norm for army’s. Mainly human beings use firearms. But I think a fellow KZreadr Monstergarden fuses firearms and magic as working together. The firearms are like catalysts for firing magic. He goes far reaper in to a more scientific grounded look into magic.

First time I've ever seen this channel and I have to subscribe from the outfit alone

It takes many years to train a war mage. It takes years to train a bowman. It takes months to train a bunch of peasants to use broomsticks. Gunpowder was discovered at least 3 times in human history, so it would take no time for alchemists to magically enhance either the gunpowder or the bullets. If you are defending your plot of noble-owned land from monsters, you should have several gun users. If you are an adventurer trained with weapons, you shouldn't carry guns, because gunpowder only works in almost perfect conditions.

@warlordjjj2111

10 күн бұрын

I think guns would not be a primary weapon but a secondary think having a pistol as a secondary to draw and shoot a mage or archer. In another use case witch hunters or something similar would likely arise to hunt mages that dable in forbidden magic or that aren't under the control of nobles. A musket would likely be their primary weapon.

@jgr7487

10 күн бұрын

@@warlordjjj2111 if archers are still a thing, rifled guns don't exist yet. In that age, a wall of bullets was the choice because you couldn't be sure that any of the bullets would hit a specific target.

@warlordjjj2111

10 күн бұрын

@jgr7487 sorry I didn't mean to refer to rifled guns maybe more like an arquebus

@jgr7487

10 күн бұрын

@@warlordjjj2111 OK. I mentioned rifled guns because smooth-bore guns, such as the arquebus, are far less accurate. But, yes, a short range 1-shot pistol would be a terrifying secondary weapon.

The content is very good

i love that hat!

I forgot about rockets, the earliest gunpowder projectile. Imagine rocket wizards and alchemists 😂

when i play as the Skaven in warhammer total war. I always wipe the floor everyone by only using guns/artillery in my armies.

Rods and Staffs shooting Fireballs always struck me as Guns, Look at the Holy Water Sprinkler with Three Gun Barrels used by King Henry VIII and Tell me that's not a Wizard's Staff.

The way i see it, magic is another word for technology. A series of actions/rituals that involve certain objects in certain configurations, all designed to "hack" an inherent quality or aspect of reality to achieve a certain personal goal, which would have been much harder or even impossible to achieve without the aforementioned actions and objects.

@omrigivon3725

8 күн бұрын

Even in our world, we have magnets, gun powder, sulfur, which have what could be percieved as inherent magical properties (properties that have functional uses that are extremely hard/impossible to achieve without those materials)

@omrigivon3725

8 күн бұрын

In other words, i think most high medieval phantasy wizards would love to have a fire arm as part of their arsenal.

Firearms are hard to reconcile with storytelling in a setting with a hard magic system that still operates under somewhat human limitations (i.e. casting a blocking spell takes time, knowledge of attack direction as well as projectile speed). In a flash-forward in The Wheel of Time, gunpowder had advanced enough for them to develop rifles, and those with the tech absolutely decimated the established magical elite.

@Beuwen_The_Dragon

8 күн бұрын

Well while magic takes time to use, so does gunfire with early firearms. Plus as early guns were less accurate at long ranges, there is still a chance of missing. Other than armour defeating capabilities, early guns are not much different from Crossbows. In fact it can be argued that many types of Bows are still better for long range accuracy and rate of fire than early guns.

Not finished with the video, but one thought here: Magic is magic in our world because it does not work or rather because it ignores the chain of cause and effect (if you believe in such things). In a fantasy world, it is much harder to differentiate magic from science. This is because when it becomes understandable, it stops being magic. Recently, I have a fascination for magic settings where the magic is unknown and unknowable for this exact reason.

3:33 in romanian we also say opa when lifting something heavy. i wonder what the etymology of opa is

Sif you want a Fantasy setting with guns i would highly recommend to check out the Pillars of Eternity video games. it is a setting with Gods and Magic and basic fire arms. It is a really good game series up there with Baldur's Gate series IMO

Have you heard of better living through undeath? Everyone can have unlimited power with just a skeletal hamster endlessly running on a wheel and if you don't pay your necromancer his service fee it will put your eye out while you sleep

Even in magical worlds, people would still be doing science, so they'd still be developing tech. They just might be taking different paths. If anything, constant contact with gods, ancestors, and other spirits and otherwise magically increasing your knowledge would accelerate technological development.

Saruman uses gunpowder in lord of the rings.

I like l guns in fantasy, but would personally only take it as far as breach-loading single-shot guns but with sound and flash suppressors, smokeless powder, cylindrical self-contained metallic cartridges and advanced projectile designs.

I've thought about the gun question a fair bit. People like fantasy in part because it is easily understood, and everything sits neatly in it's box. That would not be possible without Gate-kept knowledge under the heavy work of the monastic class paired with Gate-kept power in the form of a dedicated martial class who train their whole lives to use weapons you can't afford. I cannot see how introducing guns would not fundamentally shift the entire culture into the industrial age, at which point technology begins to solve every problem magic does cheaply and easily. And information dispersion allows for decentralized government structures which are simply better adapted to govern the inordinate amount of complexities that emerge from the interactions between industries operating at the speed of progress.

I bet he and Mestre Ensinador would be great friends

Dude looks like a garden gnome, that’s cool 😂

There was gunpowder in LOTR by the way, it's not impossible they could have created firearms soon after LOTR ended

I think you would be more likely to develop firearms in a setting where magic is either very rare, or where you have a genetic magic system, so either your dealing with a historical period but with some very rare magic(which was belied in at those points in history), or a more classic fantastical setting but where there are magical have's and have not's. I think that second situation could lead to the thematic of magic vs technology even if there is nothing mutually exclusive between the two, but the former could lead to some of those interesting settings with single use wards engraved into bullets or wizard charging up a summoning circle with a Vandergraph generator.

The adoption of firearms was the result of the combination of technological development and military necessity. So firstly you have to have a society which is developing out of feudalism due to a long period of stable climate, good harvests, population growth, cutting down forests, draining swamps, building roads and villages turning into towns, being allowed to establish town markets etc, which also requires not being in the midst of being destroyed and depopulated by Vikings or Mongols or Crusaders/Jihadists. The beginning of using coal instead of wood for fuel contributed in terms of the supply of charcoal and sulpher for gunpowder. So that's the economic basis of wealth for technological development. And then it's the matter of military necessity, first for cannons to defeat castle walls and the epic Roman walls of Constantinople famously. But the switch from bows to muskets had to wait for refinements in the hand-held technology, when the European Military Revolution began, between roughly 1450 and 1750 AD, where the military competition between the little states of Europe forced a whole series of technologies and reorganisations of society to happen, including the _Trace Italienne_ fortifications* to withstand cannons, which required vast resources to build because of their huge scale, which required centralisation of states and bureaucracy to raise enough taxes to pay for it, and much larger armies to provide garrisons for such huge walls or to besiege them, and the switch to muskets to be able to produce such huge numbers of soldiers with minimal training, more bureaucracy for supply and medical services to keep huge besieging armies alive on multi-year long campaigns etc. Now a lot of that is going to be slowed down because of the extra dangers to civilisation in fantasy worlds - dragons, angry gods, evil humanoid hordes, undead, giants etc. But I agree with you about the contribution of Dwarves and Gnomes. Personally I always think of Dwarves as naturally communist - Stakhanovite miners, smiths and stonemasons who enjoy hard work and achieving things with their hands and are collectivist and anti-feudal due to the need to work together for safety underground, and their mutual respect for the quality of each others' work, and therefore disrespect for "gentlemen" who don't work. Plus they are also all soldiers, so there isn't the possibility of being turned into serfs or disarmed over-exploited proletarians. If disarmed, they can just make themselves new swords and axes. But in any case, they are too highly productive _not_ to invent gunpowder weaponry and some amount of steam technology. They might well want to keep it to themselves, or only make it available to others as mercenaries for huge payment. * "Star" forts, angled bastions, sloping external _glacis_ of the walls, much thicker walls - 30-50 feet, cannons inside the walls to keep attackers' cannons at further distance etc.

The best explanation for why there wouldn't be any significante firearm development is 3 fold. - 1st - In a world of Magic, supernatural strong humans(fighters/barbarians), and monsters the guns would need to perform a lot better before they could be used as weapon. The first few guns, like handcannon and even flintlock would be rather expensive and the chemical to physical reaction wouldn't be able to keep up with what a supernatural human, even non wizard would do. As such maybe cannons and artillery would only be the developed path. Otherwise you would need to mix magic enchantment to the gun itself and that would increase even more the cost and would be self defeating for the wizards to do. Otherwise, if guns are just as deadly in fantasy world as they are in RL then the powerscalling would become incredible out of loop, any peasant could pull a flintlock and kill a wizard or superhuman fighter that took decades to reach their lvl of skill. - 2nd - Research and Development of firearms is expensive and need talented and intelligent people to do. This mean learned people with money, people that are way more likely to endup as wizard or merchant than this arms development route, so there is a strong brain drain this front. In fact the person that is more likely to discover and develop arms is in fact, the wizard themself. From the simple research in alchemical reactions, to improvement in their golem/construct design and even personal fall back mechanic. Beside them there are the fantasy thieves but what they have in ingenutity in conceal gears lack in large investment and development that a wizard could have. - 3rd - Guns need to compete with another form of instant destruction, spell scrolls or talisman if you are in asian setting. Like guns anyone can use it and just need to tear it open or something and they will do the effect you want without need training, and while in the long run the mundane gun might outcompete the scrolls in personal destructive potential, the problem is the early age is more cost effective to get a scroll of fireball or spend 3 years of whole logistic chain from mining, to processing and testing a handcannon (and their ammunition) and the many decades later of ReD to improve that. Often is the scroll that will come on top at time firearms are a risky, impratical, expensive self defence tool that underperform against anything but the standard human.