Working for the USFS, I have seen many of the studies & reports on the Spotted Owl. It doesn't matter what other factors or conditions are involved the Spotted Owl is in a 4% per year annual decline when in contact with the Barred Owl. The Barred Owl is not an introduced species, and there is no way we will be able to "solve" the issue. The natural barrier between the species was eliminated when we killed off the American Bison, allowing trees to bridge the great plains. The Spotted Owl has been functionally extinct since the 1890s, and attempting to save them by killing off the bird that is out competing them is like going to the beach with a broom to fight the incoming tide. We should study the decline and eventual extinction of the Spotted Owl, but spending millions of dollars to have Federal Wildlife Officers shoot owls is grossly irresponsible in so many ways.

@MichelleNyxRaymond

Ай бұрын

Agreed

@Alaska_Mac

Ай бұрын

But people with degrees says it is, so here we are

@wesleyworley8982

Ай бұрын

@Alaska_Mac The people with degrees are not in agreement, so the political appointees have turned to the loudest special interest groups for a decision.

@davidhutton7709

Ай бұрын

​@@Alaska_Mac- People with degrees... that's the problem right there 😩

@davidhutton7709

Ай бұрын

Well said...

Thank you, Ben. I appreciate you speaking as a voice of reason. This is a terrible plan, that will cost the waste of many lives and won’t solve the greater issues.

Couldn't agree more. I was suspicious of this plan from the moment I read about it. We have Barred Owls in Idaho along with Great Horned owls and they haven't taken over the landscape regardless of their aggression. Lots of smaller owls have filled in the niches the big boys don't prefer and are doing fine. Would their numbers be higher without the bigger owls out competing them? I'm sure they would but they're all doing fine thankyou. I suspect the Spotted Owl will do the same thing by falling back into denser undesirable habitat not being used by the Barreds. Nailing down and fine tuning habitat requirements of both species would seem a logical approach. We might be able to manage at least some of the forest to select for Spotted Owls over Barred. Anyway, sending out "shooting teams" to reduce the Barred Owls is not the way to go IMO. Bad idea!

I respect this view that nature and it's ways have an innate intelligence. I resonate with fluidity and dynamic nature of larger systems. Thanks Ben. Much appreciation.

Thank you for offering a well rounded opinion on this topic. Reminds me of the debacle in NZ a few years ago with tahr population in alpines. Nature will always sort it out whether we like it or not.

I remember when they completely shut down the forrests of Northern Az for the spotted owls a couple of decades ago. To hear that this hasn't helped doesn't surprise me, and to hear that they're considering destroying half a million owls is infuriating.

Thank you for your thoughts, Ben; Interesting info 😉🥰

This reminds me of a recent case in the NE US where a state DNR, New Jersey maybe, won a lawsuit brought against itself for inadvertently destroying wetland habitat of one endangered species in efforts of creating a forested habitat for another endangered species. This biggest question of the case was how to process the multi thousand dollar fine since the agency fined itself, was found guilty in court, and had to pay itself with its own department funds for damages done.

It was a unfortunate idea to kill wolf's in Yellowstone. All species have their place in Nature. It's sad to me that few people see It's just only in that a few years; that wolf's play an environment role. Not so much flooding and protecting the Environment of natural habitat.

I think we should reintroduce spotted owls instead of killing barred owls

@vadimpm1290

Ай бұрын

I think it wouldn't work.

@alexosaurus9025

Ай бұрын

​@@vadimpm1290It was would logically make more sense to use government money to have a funded program for breeding and releasing spotted owls in their native range then trying to eliminate a native species to do nature's job. Furthermore , a funded program for spotted owls would benefit their population growth without harming another species population without causing an imbalanced in nature.

We should never interfere with nature, Survival of the fittest

Great take on this subject. Trust your gut

A similar case could be made for California condors. When Europeans first encountered them, they were endemic to southern CA. Fossil records show that they used to range as far east as the Mississippi River. It's likely black and turkey vultures outcompeted them until they reached that point. Now we spend millions to tey and keep them alive. I adore spotted owls. I did a nesting survey cruise of them in northern CA a few summers ago and find them fascinating. However, if it's their time to go, then butchering a bunch of their replacements is only going to slow the process and cost a lot in the doing.

Very sad idea.

apologies that this isnt about the main subject of the video but that clip used at 1:30 is very interesting to me, a juvenile coopers hawk (i think) with young already?! youve mentioned that this can happen before in another video with goshawks, i believe, its just very strange to see to me

@SSHAWKING

Ай бұрын

Juvenile coopers (especially females) actually do it at pretty high rates compared to other species. Pretty cool!

@Travellers_Joy

Ай бұрын

@@SSHAWKING interesting!!

The corresponding pair of Old World Strix owls - Tawny and Ural Owls - coexist relatively well in Western and Northern Europe, i.e. Slovenia, Southern Poland, Central Sweden, Finland, etc., where the mosaic of rich and diverse habitats has been preserved. Both species usually prefer the different type of habitat and thus separate from each other. At the same time in some parts of easternmost European Russia (Upper and Middle Volga, Volga - Kama, Western Urals) in the last decades the remnants of mature forests and urban green belts are degrading rapidly. As a result, there is territorial and numerical expansion of Ural Owl and clear (locally drastic) decline of Tawny, with reported interspecific kills.

Very interesting 👀🦉🦉🦉

It's a slow process...Thank you Ben.

You always support nature doing it its way.

Barred owls are like red tailed hawks, they can survive in almost any setting.

While I am not opposed to hunting necessarily. Looking at this situation especially not being carefully managed can have dire consequences. As you said before and I agree they are very similar looking species and easily can be mistaken for each other that’s a big problem there. Aside from them looking similar these species can crossbreed. The other thing that could possibly be suggested is trapping barred owls and sterilizing them. However, I still even that approach still would run into issues being there are so many barred owls in those areas now, how easy is it to catch the bird might be another issue, and honestly an expert on sterilization so I don’t know if that would have any long term consequences as well. I think overall your best solution is conservation finding and research and what type of environments spotted owls flourishing and have an upper hand over barred owls and other owl species and trying to create those type of ecosystems. The other thing people should question two is it just barred owls that are outcompeting spotted owls or is it other species of animals as well. Overall, is a more complex situation than just killing 500,000 owls and we should look into other solutions.

This reminds me of the Eurasian Eagle Owl controversy in the UK that I follow . The EEO’s were native a long time ago , but disappeared except for captives in England . Big owls don’t fly across the channel from France or other countries on a regular basis. Some started to be noticed in the wild in England . Since they are apex predators and could finish off a native prey bird species some wanted to kill them all . Finally after a nasty fight it was decided to let the owls live for now , knowing they will impact many species, including other smaller owls . I think there are limits to our abilities. Some species have been saved as conservation trophies, and I’m grateful they’re here , but if we stop , the species will slowly go extinct anyway .

I'm a falconer on the east coast and would be happy to take a barred owl. I've actually been looking for one. How can I help?

Awesome video Ben, what a talking point. I have been studying veterinary medicine in South Africa the last 3 years and I keep up with your videos to stay in tune with the falconry world back in the states! Let me know if you would like to get in touch with South African falconers or raptor vets for a video, podcast, or curiosity!

Bad science.

Would it be kinder to take the egg’s off breeding pairs for season or two to keep numbers down rather than mass slaughter

Lots of things are at risk in Florida! Whoops...

I think the idea that since barred owls are native to North America, and therefore the northwest counts as native barred owl habitat, is inherently flawed. While the two species do eat many similar species, the spotted owl has less of an impact on species that also live in the northwest. If barred owls replace them, many more species will have much more stress placed on them, as more barred owls take advantage of living space than spotted owls. It’s not just the loss of spotted owls we would be dealing with, it would be whole communities of amphibians, lizards and other small creatures. In turn, other creatures that rely on those food sources are displaced as well. Another important factor to keep in mind is that the loss of old growth redwood due to logging has already put stress on these unique ecosystems that thrive under the largest trees on earth. When you add invasive barred owls to the mix, it’s like adding gasoline onto a burning building. I love barred owls, but a species that already has 3 million animals in its native habitat is a species that may need culling to protect entire unique and endangered ecosystems on the opposite side of its native range. The culling is also really a time buyer for the spotted owls, as what they need is the end of old-growth logging, and the creation of new habitat through reforestation. Once the initial amount of barred owls are killed, it will be easier to keep them out of the north west, as less of them will have established themselves and nest. It’s the same conflict that’s going on with pythons in the Everglades, or boars in Texas, or rats and ferrets in Hawaii. As for the manipulation of the endangered status, that can be true. However, the northern spotted owl is a subspecies of the spotted owl. The others being the California and Mexican. The California spotted is also threatened by barred owls, so that’s two thirds of the species that could be threatened, and the two subspecies unique to two different forest of west coast. In all, it’s a terrible choice, but we can either do nothing, and allow barred owls to destroy the spotted owls, and weaken the already strained redwood ecosystems, or engage in a cull, buying crucial recovery time for the ecosystem and helping the spotted owl survive. The choice is ours. If you want to know more about the Californian Spotted owls struggles, a wing and a prayer is a great book to look at. It covers recovery efforts for multiple different birds including the spotted owl

@wesleyworley8982

Ай бұрын

The culling is expensive and ineffective. The Barred owls are reproducing at a much faster rate than they can be culled, and all of the current surveys have completely discounted habitat loss as a factor - there are a lot of environmental groups hanging on to that myth from the 1990s in order to push the anti-logging agenda. The Barred owls are proving to be no more damaging to the prey base than the Spotted owls, and the situation is far beyond the ability on humans to reverse. Throwing money trying to delay the inevitable is irresponsible and diverts resources away from species that can be helped.

Let's nor forget the species brought from other countries. Why I can't know,

It doesn't take a huge leap to apply it to human issues.

I don’t know if this is really the same but you know what happened with Yellowstone wolves? #Justiceforjunesuckerfish

Think it sounds disgusting either way, always more issues, sick n sad, call human mgmt, we don't help so screw the animals, so wrong.

No! don't kill the barred owls. If they want to reallocate them then bring them to the southeast. We have plenty of rodents, chipmunks and critters here.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was political and money driven.

I often don't agree with interference with nature, however human existence and human nature is part of nature. Over hunting bison could have lead to a locational extinction of humans. While that is natural or darwin, it is also human nature to intervene with nature. So if humans want to "play god" , it may be an unpopular idea, but we should let them. Just remember it's a game of chess, not checkers. The extinction of an insect or even a bacteria, could chain effect to the extinction of humans. Nature is Chaos. Nature is beautiful. Chaos is beautiful. Deal with it 😊

@Ben... thank you.A voice if reason in a world that does not understand. My favorite bird is RTH. Truly love your contribute to birds That's all🪶