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This problem, of turning a martial art into an exhibition, exists in much of contemporary WuShu, not just the Mantis form. Many of the WuShu performers are amazing athletes, but they have lost the combat essence of traditional martial arts. This is part of the reason there is the misconception among many common people, and even among many MMA contestants and karate practitioners, that Gongfu people can't fight. Contemporary Wushu was not created for the purpose of combat. Traditional Chinese martial arts were.

@ryanramos6883

3 жыл бұрын

I agree with you on that sir

@henriquenicola5615

3 жыл бұрын

100% right, but this transformation is even bigger and goes well beyond Kung Fu. Focus on exhibition and show are also major issues in Karate, Tae Kwon Do among others. And the big problem are not the competitions as one may think, but the teachers not being honest about what they’re teaching.

@LuisNgchongJrArt

3 жыл бұрын

i agree lot of the kung fu people should try to get into sparring

@leronharrison1110

3 жыл бұрын

@Ntwrk Wushu is a martial practice. Gong fu is merely skill. I practice the Yu Hai mantis and my coach did take me through the applications behind the movement. I definitely agree with the criticism of the spread of Yu Hai's flavor, especially into Shaolin, but if you are a practitioner you follow the practice. I've written an academic article about ditching the term "martial art" called "From Martial Arts to Practice"; I suggest you take a look at it.

@rafaeloperezjr

3 жыл бұрын

the problem is representation.

I think sport wushu at this point should be treated as a form of modern acrobatic gymnastics or theatre. Very skilled athletes but not martial arts, which is fine as long as we don’t confuse the two. I really liked you explanation of the principles of Mantis. I think more talk about the meta systems and strategies behind the arts is always helpful. Mantis reminds me a lot of Kuntao Silat in terms of the adhesion principle.

@peterhannig127

Жыл бұрын

The modern wushu styles have many very good techniques, but this wushu by itself is not rooted.

@ehisey

6 ай бұрын

Modern wushu did develop out of theatre, especially the Chinese Opera houses were many styles went to hide and were adapted to stage preformance.

The whole CMA is plagued by this performance problem. See, there's no problem with modifying the system for competitions and performance. But the problem is telling the beginner people who want to learn forms for combat purposes, that these performance forms can be used in fight. Because this really creates distrust among those beginners when they try to apply these performance forms in real combat.

You’re doing amazing work, spreading understanding of Kung Fu and distinguishing between practice for performance and practice for martial art.

@MonkeyStealsPeach

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much!

reminds me how Lau Kar Leung created a monkey fist form for a movie, and eventually he did include his form in his own Lau Family Hung Gar Kuen style. He didn't just come out of nowhere with it though because him and his relatives did train with a sifu with a background in a style of monkey boxing. Like mantis there are many monkey boxing styles, and forms, some are more combat oriented, some forms display more showmanship, where you see all of the mimicking of a monkey and stuff.

This video was like a glass of fresh water to a parched throat. It hit the spot, precisely and to the point. Excellent work.

@LuisNgchongJrArt

3 жыл бұрын

i agree

I'm middle aged and I've been studying martial arts since I was 9 years old, in various different forms. For most the time I took the same view as Bruce Lee, who was constantly pointing out how impractical the traditional styles were in a real fight. My view has completely changed now. The great beauty of traditional kung fu is that it is an art form. And it is not 100 dedicated to fighting. But it's more complex. I've mostly studied wing chun. But the centerline theory applies to most Kung Fu. Your head and body is contained in a long rectangle and you have your centre line. For all real life fighting your strikes and blocks never leave the tight rectangle of your body. I've tried doing kung fu forms that are 100% practical street fighting training and it looks really funny because you're doing these short blocking and powering movements with your arms, it almost looks like you're being electrocuted. It's almost impossible to enjoy doing this for long. But when you incorporate the aesthetic kungfu movements it becomes an absolute pleasure to train. It might seem counterintuitive but by practising the aesthetic flowery movements you practise more and develop speed strength and grace which actually helps you in a real fight whereas if you're kung fu forms we're entirely practical You would just find them so dull, you'd be better off doing shadow boxing. I've now come full circle and totally love what this guy has done. Also after learning the basics people should think about developing their own movements I mean after all if you're in a fight it's going to be you who's defending yourself, why not do the movements which feel right to yourself. Wishing everyone the very best.

The solution will be a sort of analogy of kata bunkai, where all the movements are explained and demonstrated how to use in real life situations.

@MonkeyStealsPeach

3 жыл бұрын

They are if you learn the art from a proper teacher

Really glad you did this video on mantis. There are indeed to many misconceptions out there. I prefer the 12-principle approach of the 7 Star Mantis which is more combat oriented and based on proven methods. Beginners need to be attracted to mantis for its reality based combat potential rather than a fictitious wushu version of it. Good job!

@kori228

Жыл бұрын

had come across a Cantonese speaking channel, 華藝精武 that does a *_lot_* of application demonstrations and that has me more interested than seeing the performative flair

lol, you made me think of us and Choy Li Fut. People look at our forms and ask where is all the jumping and dancing around, when there is none. Oh, and don't even get me started on people asking why we don't twirl staves around and throw them up in the air. And my biggest pet peeve is people being absolutely stunned when I show applications from Chen Tai Chi. I've seen people actually get offended when they find out that Tai Chi has elbow and wrist breaks. practice in the park Tai Chi=worst thing that ever happened to Tai Chi. I'm getting mad just thinking about it. Ok, I'm calming down now.............XD

@MonkeyStealsPeach

3 жыл бұрын

I think bouncing people around is the worst thing that happened to Taiji personally

@blockmasterscott

3 жыл бұрын

@@MonkeyStealsPeach OMG yes!

@Purwapada

3 жыл бұрын

. "buddhas warrior attendant pounds the mortar" :)

@NoverMaC

3 жыл бұрын

I'm still not sure what Taiji is supposed to be as a result of this

@SkipinlLA

3 жыл бұрын

I wish we had choy li fut in orlando. I got a taste of it in San Jose costa rica back in the 80s .

Wow! It is awesome to see the differences between traditional Manis Kung Fu and the Wushu version!

8:09 I love to see older masters who still move so well after a life of training!

@toddaurelius2675

2 жыл бұрын

does anyone have a link to the Traditional Practical Mantis Form?

Crystal clear explanation backed up by evidences and compelling arguments! Good job! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

Really enjoy your vids.I like your calm integrity..

yeah it's such a shame that those misconceptions exist, I've always wondered what's the rocking and really low stances were about. by now I'm treating wushu as a separate art than the traditional martial arts (wushu is pretty demanding and looks pretty awesome but not really martial). the government really should focus more on the cultural preservation of martial arts

@fredmcdaniels2912

2 ай бұрын

Peace,the back in fourth is truth because the opponents self defence,all mantises are different peace.

Thank you! Someone needed to do this for awhile now👏

Thank you for your clarification. It has been quite informative.👍

I once read this article where a kung fu master told a joke about how the 7 star Mantis got it's name. Can't remember the master or his exact words but basically he said the form originally used to be called the 12 star Mantis, with each star corresponding to a set of techniques that can beat the previous set of techniques, but the politics in kung fu organizations made it so every master who succeeded the next generation kept a form(star) secret and did not teach their successor that secret form as a sort of ace up his sleeve in case his student turned against him. So the master who learned 12 star mantis only taught his successor 11 star mantis and that successor taught his student only 10 star mantis and so forth. So now, we are down to 7 star and there will come a day when there only be 1 star mantis or worse, No star at all.😁

What you describe is exactly why I was incorrectly hesitant to study Mantis at all. In my preliminary research I only saw the "showy" version and wasn't interested at all. I'm glad I pushed past that and found something functional in Seven Star Mantis, it's a lot of fun so far.

The distinction that you expounded upon is an important one and needs to be made, as stated. The two 'styles' of Mantis are clearly, on their face, different in spirit and intent. Thank you for the insight.

The main purpose of the mantis style is to use trapping and locking, to tie up your opponent, and if he or she has weapons like a staff you can lock it and hold it with one arm using leverage while you will still have the other arm to use for attack.

It was done in shaw brothers movies before jet li came along.

Thank you Sifu for adding clarity and explaining the differences. (Y)

I have learned traditional Kung Fu and contemporary wushu , they are different as night and day. I learned martial arts in Taiwan as well as Mainland China, the same analogy applies

thank you for doing this. this needed to be said!

@MonkeyStealsPeach

3 жыл бұрын

I know right! It was on my mind for a while as tired of people thinking Mantis is about rocking the body and poking the fingers

Very informative. I had believed mantis kung fu to be a superficial mimicking style, which always seemed suspect in it's supposed practicality. I'm glad to have found this video.

Even the wushu mantis form that master is showing has a ton of applications in it, but wushu values speed and key executions over a functional chain of movements throughout the form. The basics you'd learn leading up to that form would show you the applications but I imagine even knowing the application, the coach on the sidelines yelling "FASTER! COME ON" would wreck all of that and you'd just try to get through it looking as crisp as possible. In reality, that form is good for school demos and is a compulsory form if you want to enter the wushu mantis division - otherwise plum flower or seven star is going to have a lot more traditional applications.

Is there a philosophy behind other kung fu styles like tiger or white crane like how you describe mantis' philosophy to fighting?

Wong Fei-hung's father would put on martial arts demonstrations for money. I wonder if he also added elements that were just for show.

@MonkeyStealsPeach

3 жыл бұрын

Oh it’s definitely not something new. But the old ways of performance had a different audience in mind. They also have a rustic charm lacking in modern stuff

@nyclee9133

3 жыл бұрын

Hung gar isn’t demonstration

@peterwang5660

3 жыл бұрын

@@nyclee9133 Wushu Hung Gar is. I don't even know if it exists, but it probably does, and if it does I have no doubt it is a dance.

I had wondered this for so long. Thank you for clearing this up. Any other good movies that showcase any kind of Mantis Kung Fu?

@MonkeyStealsPeach

3 жыл бұрын

I actually don’t watch Kung Fu movies so not sure

@Tamales21

3 жыл бұрын

@@MonkeyStealsPeach You're the last person I would expect to hear that from.

Excellent explanation!

Great video, very timely...... But what happened to the cartoon guy?

Thanks for another video. I appreciate your good job. My master was Yu Tian Cheng, a real master like in legends and a real fighter.

what i understand for many centeries that back in those days they didnt have books and videos of alot of the traditional martial arts. every thing was verbally passed on so i figure that lot of its true traditinal forms are lost it might over time been change from master to students nice video

Awesome, thank you so much for spreading traditional kung fu.

Yu hai was actually very adept in 7 star, northern, and taiji mantis. His chen taiji was authentic . Thanks for the discussion !

In Chenjiagou, it's very hard to find schools that teach you Chen Tai Chi as a martial art as opposed to preparing you for wushu competitions. This might well be true about many Chinese martial arts.

@ShadowParalyzer

3 жыл бұрын

Chenjiagou has become very commercialized, and they experienced famine, poverty, food storage, plundering of the village, people fled, some were arrested, some were killed. Chen Xiaowang was only like 10 years old when his father was arrested and died in jail, so he couldn't have learned much from his father. He never met his grandfather, Chen Fake. He and the other Four Tigers learned from Chen Zhaopi who was 65 years old at a time where life expectancy was 35-45. Chen Zhaopi failed a suicide attempt and crippled his leg. After he passed away, the Village Head said that the Four Tigers only learned the forms but didn't have any skill and didn't learn any martial applications. Thus, he invited over Chen Fake's son (Chen Zhaokui) over to teach, and even that only lasted an accumiliation of under 2 years. So, the reason you have a hard time finding them teaching martial arts is because they don't have much of it. Those who preserved the skills of Chen Taijiquan were chill'in at Beijing or other parts of China at the time - folks like Chen Zhaokui's son (Chen Yu), Feng Zhiqiang (now deceased), etc...

Even in the 80s we called the wushu people dancers and "the shoe people." I was in competition doing 7-star forms against these dancers but it was the judges who rated wushu highly and promoted it. For one thing, it revitalized schools struggling to win competitions and students. It also had the mystique of being fresh from China so it must be right. There were a number of Chinese teachers touring western schools and they were interesting, tough athletes who smoked like crazy, wore uniforms that looked straight out of a kungfu movie and had endless interesting stories of training and living in China. They were stars. They won on entertainment value on every front. They even infected karate and other hard styles who had to compete with them.

Absolutely yeah. If you don't train the Traditional system and most critically the actual fighting applications... it will quickly lose it's martial foundation and fighting principles. I do some Northern 7 Star as well. The basic traditional Bong Bo Quan, Sub Ba Sao, Cha Chui Chuan, Sil Lui Bong Da, and Mui Fa Sao. Doesn't even look like Mantis when you use it. You start off basically doing Longfist/Tam Tui from long range. Using high kicks to keep your opponent out of your range. If they make the mistake of getting too close, then it becomes Mantis Side Step with intercept, stick and tear apart

It's fascinating how this extrapolates across so many other forms of martial arts worldwide . A mix of "how do we get attention for our organization " and "well there's nobody to fight right now so how can we make this interesting?". We even have it in the armed forces . Soldiers spinning rifles around in a way nobody would ever dream of in real application . Another great example is Silat . Depending on what video you land on you'll have wildly varying ideas on what it's really about. In fact I doubt if I hadn't first seen martial arts fantastically portrayed in movies as a kid I'd have gotten involved at all. But then later you look at it and go "That's silly, I want to see some realism in these fight scenes!"

Congratulations for the video, very helpful and precise. I'm a Praying Mantis practitioner from Brazil and I would like to add a bit to your ideas. Thanks to the modern wushu, students from other styles say "You can't hit someone with Diu Sao (mantis hook)", they misunderstood that the Diu Sao use is: 1-to hit 2-main weapon in mantis A 400 years old martial art, complete with forms and dozens fighting techniques downsized to a poking eye/throat style, thats too sad.

I am of the Chiu Chuk Kai lineage and have not added any "WuShu" to any of my Shaolin Kung Fu. Perhaps I could share some of my information with you? You may also be interested in my "Monkey Steals A Peach" workout shirts! I used to silkscreen these for the Tai Mantis Federation back in 1982.

Very interesting! Many thanks :)

That's so funny 😄👍 Thank you for setting the record straight. 😎👍

Thank you for your video ☺️ I still see naihanchi in this form.

Great video! Too many people judge contemporary mantis (or any other style for that matter) as an abomination without understanding how it came to be. Not bad or good, just is. As long as the school is clear on what they're teaching, all is good. 🙏

So would this apply to all the animal styles (tiger, monkey, snake, etc) in that you're just taking their strategies and tactics but aren't actually trying to mimic them

@shadowspear899

3 жыл бұрын

@Silent Psykosis thanks for complety misrepresenting what I was asking you're so perceptive

I find these insights extremely valuable. Thank you. I've been searching for a teacher of authentic mantis for years. I live in Southern Poland. One day, I hope to go to China to practice.

@MonkeyStealsPeach

3 жыл бұрын

There is a large Mantis group in Poland who are very good. Look up Tanglangmen Poland on KZread

@pz3j

3 жыл бұрын

@@MonkeyStealsPeach Wow! Thank you. I'm very grateful. You are very kind.

Back during my Hwa Rang Do days (about 20 years ago) I saw a Chinese martial arts video. It was from the seventies and had mantis, crane, and a few others. It was different from the one you had, and had better resolution. I've searched, and can't find this video tape anymore. However, Yu Hai stood out. Fast forward to the movie Tai Chi, and I notice this older man's subtle and powerful movements. I've always liked Yu Hai, and never made the connection that he was the very person I remember watching so long ago. Super weird how it all came full circle when I watched Martial Arts of Shaolin, for the fourth or fifth time. I knew Yu Hai was the real deal, before I ever knew his name, by just watching how fluid his movements were. Thanks for the video. You can see how graceful and committed and purposeful his movements are. I think you are 💯 correct.

Yes, very insightful! Thank you.

Let me begin by saying I'm a fan of your work. I enjoyed how you helped the Karate Nerd in locating the style that Karate traces its origin back to. I enjoyed this video; I'm a wushu practitioner for 20+ years and am actually a student in the Yu Hai style of mantis. My coach trained with Yu Hai and taught me his mantis form. Yu Hai is my guiding star when it comes to mantis. I know for me I'm not moving through the form for no reason; my coach taught me what the combative principles behind the movements are. So when I move it's a function of my understanding of the movements and the flavor that I have cultivated over the years. You're absolutely right to criticize wushu. We ourselves often criticize wushu largely because it changed drastically trying to get into the Olympics. (The new school nandu forms are something I'll be critiquing in an academic article I'll start working on next year.) I know for myself I'm always trying to incorporate applications in my forms by asking myself "Why are you doing this? What's your intention behind this movement?" So know there are some wushu people who feel the way you do.

@MonkeyStealsPeach

3 жыл бұрын

That’s interesting to hear man, thanks for sharing. You should listen to the podcast interview I did on this channel a few months ago with Byron Jacobs. We talked about wushu and the politics of it quite a bit

@leronharrison1110

3 жыл бұрын

@@MonkeyStealsPeach Where can I find it?

@MonkeyStealsPeach

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/X6qW14-fmK-0m5s.html

@leronharrison1110

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks; in return, I should give you a copy of my article "From Martial Arts to Practice." You can find it on my Academia page: murraystate.academia.edu/LeRonHarrison

@MonkeyStealsPeach

3 жыл бұрын

thanks a lot. Look forward to reading!

So which was the mantis which blended with snake style and crane style to make wing Chun?

@MonkeyStealsPeach

3 жыл бұрын

I’ve never heard of any Mantis influencing the creation of Wing Chun before, but I would assume you are referring to Southern Mantis which is totally unrelated to Northern Mantis which I do

And I’m guessing this also contributes to people thinking that TCM is not effective. I’m guilty of this, and it’s hard to shake.

This is really really nice!

Thanks for this important clarification.

Keep it traditional and practical

. Wow!! Great video - I think this has happened to pretty much all chinese martial arts (and probably other martial arts like karate etc). Although probably with the exception of tongbei because it was always kept quite secret and its more about principal than the form.

How would you classify Chan Poi's praying mantis in Orlando, FL? Performance wushu or self defense martial art?

@MonkeyStealsPeach

2 жыл бұрын

The little I’ve seen of it, it looks like a combination of modern wushu, some southern styles and mantis

@hemispace641

2 жыл бұрын

I recall reading in an article many years ago that Wah Lum Praying Mantis was a mixture of Mantis with Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu.

@NH1973

Жыл бұрын

Is it also based on Tan Tui?

My revelation is that most kung-fu has one two three etc. Core movements and all the forms are just different ways of doing the core movements of the art. After you find the core movements it's really easy to see the 10,000 other postures. The movements are not how we classically view movements as a westerner.. as one punch or parry block hand position etc.. the movement could be a set of blocks parrrys strikes etc. So your latch on move into range preform strikes and takedown would be considered one movement or a system core. Each different kind of martial art has sets of these cores. When you start understanding these cores you can pick up other ones really fast just by seeing it. In traditional martial arts we don't learn this way but after you kinda get it you start learning this way. Then you can see something like 3d space where your move in and latch onto someone is one position in space do your strikes is another part in 3d space and your take down is another part in 3d space. When you do this it becomes positional kung-fu. Then you can take the positions in space and string them together to make art work in tue movements of the form. So you might be using the head of the mantis for capturing the arm catch the cicada. Then mantis climbs tree for striking while parrying the arm. And a leg stepping over the opponents while excucuting a upward elbow strike to the solar plexus as a take down. Then you can circle back out the second door around the circle to enter the opposite side of the opponent while they recover from the previous technique step into the yin spot turn 180 and capture the opposite side arm and repeat the previous technique on the opposite side. You can then set up each set of techniques capture with different capture techniques attack with different attack techniques and down the opponent with different downing the opponent techniques. Each system of kung-fu has techniques built in sets that you can intertwine into different parts of different structures through the different cores. The applications can be different depending on what type of structure you built it into. I just built it into a yin yang from nei jia in this comment for fun. Bit you could use line drills pai pu step sun diagram etc.

I had a book of the 7 Star Praying Mantis & studied it regularly. The story of the only known martial art moves that based on an insect was said to be founded by a monk witnessing a mantis fighting a bird. The monk Wang Tang started mimicking the insects movement & then legend is born. Not all blows are based on finger poking. If a fighter is using his fingers as weapons, strengthen & conditioning them R a monitory MUST!! That training also applies to Wing Chun Practicers , Eagle's Claws, even Tiger & Dragon fighters! Are you going BREAK more than a 💅

thanks this was helpful we have some mantis in WahLum system

Very well said... when I was living in China and studying at the sport university it made me so dissapointed to see how all the essence from the wushu movements was taken out in the classes... chinese students were only interested in competitions and no meaning was given to the movements aside of the points from the judges... btw. Yu Hai did something really genius with PM coz he was really experienced in the style and moved it to the modern era while still keeping it principles... great guy... (and I was a bit scared to watch this video since you've used a picture of Jake Mace in the thumbnail, whom I consider to be one of the giggest a**holes on the YT talking about wushu) :D

In many ways the same thing happened to Taijiquan. The frame of reference was more relaxed health practice rather than pure aesthetics, but you can see the degrading of the original training content over the generations

@MonkeyStealsPeach

Жыл бұрын

For sure

Thank you for talking objectively about the development of Tanglangquan in modern Wushu. As you pointed out, there is the phenomenon of the game of telephone that results in modern Wushu coaches and athletes losing the depth of its traditional counterpart as the years go by, simply by imitating and copying what they see and not understanding how or why the movements are done the way they are. As a modern Wushu guy myself, if I were to learn modern Wushu Tanglangquan, I would prefer to learn from Yu Hai himself, or from someone who learned the details directly from him, rather than learn from another modern Wushu coach or athlete, same thing with modern Wushu shuangshoujian created by the late Yu Chenghui. This is why I chose to learn Fanziquan from instructors who trace their knowledge directly back to the late Grandmaster Ma Xianda who was responsible for the creation of the standardized Fanziquan form in modern Wushu Taolu, because they could share the nuances and details of how and why the movements were originally done the way they were. Of course, as you established, there is one simple solution to all of this: don’t call these events “traditional.” This is because doing so is lying and runs the risk of making these events appear fraudulent in the face of real traditional martial arts, which is not good for Wushu’s perception and image.

@TaoOfTheFist

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/YoGj1KamYqnak5c.html

I think at this point, a lot of teacher's don't even know what they are teaching and doing.

Thank you very much for that I made up my own mantis form and I didn't even know any seven star but I have done HungGar for 25 years and my mantis form was created from the knowledge of all of that and it is under the exact same principles but you just described straightforward realistic combat strategy just like the Mantis does get a hold of them get them clothes and end it so thank you it was very insightful and let me know the my contribution to the ancient history is right on the money keep up the good work

Well said will!

I always get a kick out of their wavering Mantis Catches the Cicada move. They grab their opponent's wrist and elbow and just waive their arm around. Maybe it's a severed arm?

@MonkeyStealsPeach

3 жыл бұрын

Only the arm is left after you devour them

@Tamales21

3 жыл бұрын

Before this video I thought that was push/pull/feeling intent. Any grappling art would use this. But turns out I was wrong. Glad to be corrected by someone smarter than me. There is so much to learn.

@TrentMantis

3 жыл бұрын

@@Tamales21 There are a few applications for Tong Long Bosim, the push/pull/feeling intent is a great exercise for grappling. In the form Bung Bo, we practice a particular application of an arm bar that is similar to the ones found in Judo, Hapkido etc. Here is the exact application in our lineage kzread.info/dash/bejne/ammKqNynj6TAY7A.html

@hemispace641

2 жыл бұрын

@@Tamales21 : Could it be used for push/pull/feeling intent? If so, I wouldn't say you were "wrong".

Traditional Mantis Masters have been invited to Shaolin Temple since the regeneration of promotion of it as a part of Chinese culture in the early 80s. Masters such as Lee Kam Win has been invited to pass on his knowledge there. His style has NOT been influenced by wusu. Also mantis only rock and shake when they are dying so Sifu Lee does not like to see anyone do this during mantis practise it is NOT a part of any traditional style!

Can you explain about 7 star Mantis and southern mantis

@dtw4326

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed it would be super interesting (& appreciated) if you could explore, compare and contrast origins, forms, concepts of Tang Lang 7 star mantis with Chow family (southern) Tong Long mantis thanks!

Best explanation i ever have. Thanks.

I trained Hao jia taji Mei Hua Tang Lang Quan for a few years in Germany and i still like it very much, but some aspects i don't understand. Für example the throws. If you push an oponent away and he falls down, he isn' unable to keep on fighting. Also that there are so many throws but you don't learn ground techniques. That combination ist very dangerous.

I wonder what other styles are dealing with this too?

@MonkeyStealsPeach

3 жыл бұрын

Taiji, xingyi, bagua for starters

Similar situation with T'ai Chi Chuan. Everyone these days is amazed it's an actual martial art because nearly no one (at least in the US) teaches it as such. "I thought that was just for old people to keep in shape", or "How is it a martial art because it's so slow" are common refrains. Even among martial artists it's a common perception.

@peterwang5660

3 жыл бұрын

Oh of course. Fucking Joe Rogan and that Navy Seal who hates traditional martial arts that is super popular online think his name is Willock described it as a god damn "Yoga type thing" on Rogan's podcast.

@MillerJustinFS

2 жыл бұрын

@@peterwang5660 Sadly, the only way to make them change their mind is to get a Tai Chi practitioner to beat everyone up in MMA matches.

Thanks for the video Will. I appreciate videos like this. It makes more sense to trap your opponent with the mantis hook then poke them with it lol.

The fighting style as you describe it, is a common methodology seen in Northern styles. All the Gibbon based styles do this.

That wushu style can be used for self defense,, but mantis Kung fu strikes with the hammer and blade, but the BUI GEE rushing fingers.. although they do teach eye jabbing .. I just feel, it could be used possibly.. it doesn’t however represent the real mantis kungfu

Evolution of a martial art style is not necessarily a bad thing. In the beginning these arts were perfected over years. You could say some styles are still being perfected... adjusting to modern fighting and modern human attributes with respect to size and strength

performance Mantis is a but _too_ much flair and doesn't seem real when I came across a channel 華藝精武 focusing heavily on applications demonstrations I actually think it's pretty cool

The discussion should be more about what someone wants to learn. In the Chinese way of martial arts it's more to become a warrior than a fighter. It's a long way to master.

Peace,the mantis do go though at times with its opponent may move back and forth,whatch a mantis,use a small stim or tooth pick and it will show fourth and it do end its opponent peace.

These comments are insightful and on target.

I learning traditional baguazhang. The wushu bagua also different.

So what is the true mantis style 🤔 compare to Know?

It is a great video and very brave of you to criticize it with a political echo and also a cultural view!. Well done 👍!.

What martial artists seek changes over time n practice ... but the styles form remains the same...

Thank you for the clear explanation. I have been trying to tell the younger generation that the Wu Shu style has no essence of the original teachings..........

Thank God we never had this issue in Shuai Chiao.

So Mantis is Northern Shaolin kung-fu that derived from a Southern kung-fu that has SOuthern Mantis forms in it called My Jong Longhorn which means 'confusing strong man'. But even what this guy is doing is highly modified from both Southern and Northern mantis. So look at it like this. Northern Manits is for competition while Southern Mantis is for actual self defense fighting. Both can be used for self defense.

@markiec8914

7 ай бұрын

No you're confusing the two styles. Northern Mantis is the original style. Southern Mantis , aka Chow Gar, has a very different history as it's associated with the Hakka people of Southern China (Guangdong).

@ddmound

7 ай бұрын

@@markiec8914 I disagree you are highly mistaken. There is nothing in Northern Shaolin that is original that you can find from the original forms before it became Wu Shu. Your ambiguity about so-called Southern mantis comes from Wikipedia propaganda. It doesn't matter Southern or northern China praying mantis is not martial arts. There's only one martial, what do you know? I learned from gung Fu Master of PaQua kuntao style

I totally agree and at the risk of sounding like a provocteur, I'm going to say that martial arts in China is in one Hell of a mess. Traditional martial arts were banned during the Communist revolution and replaced with modern and highly over stylized sport wushu. Every martial arts historian knows this. Now with China having opened up to the west, and looking to make a quick buck quite frankly, in many cases they have merely repackaged wushu, and traditional opera martial arts and now try to sell it and pass it off as traditional martial arts or "Shaolin martial arts". Perhaps there are pockets of those who have trained in the traditional styles but most of the hype I see, including "Shaolin warrior monks" are doing modified wushu. There is nothing wrong with modern sport wushu. It's an incredible display of atheleticism and great as a competitive sport and there has been great evolution in the area of practical fighting in sanda. But these are not traditional wushu, chuan fa, or "kung fu"; let's not kid ourselves. Selling wushu as traditional martial arts is as hokey as when people started opening up ninjutsu academies when the ninja craze hit in the 80's. There are no ninjas anymore, and they were not mystical and magical as portrayed in literature and movies. It's a facade. It's selling an illusion. In fact, martial arts KZreadr, Ramsey Dewey, who lives in China, has said the new generation of Chinese are not even interested in kung fu. It's seen as an anachronism by the younger generation but yet it is still being repackaged and pushed for both nationalistic pride, and to get people from the West to go to China and spend money to train with "Shaolin monks" (who are probably just wushu athletes who could not make the national wushu team or find a job as stuntmen and extras in wuxia movies). If I wanted to learn the more traditional kung fu and Chinese martial arts, I would look towards those styles practiced in Hong Kong, Taiwan, or somewhere with a large settlement of immigrants from Hong Kong (e.g. San Fran, New York, England, Australia) instead where it has not been forced to be altered by government restrictions and policies. If I walked into a so-called traditional kung fu school and saw people wearing Feiyue shoes and slapping their foot as they kicked that's a sign it's probably not the traditional Hong Kong style kung fu and I would politely leave unless I was specifically looking to practice modern sport wushu.

@Chronicskillness

2 жыл бұрын

Most people who train feel the same way.

Even though that style isn't traditional in the sense of not being an old style but seriously there people, who practice this as any traditional Style, given that Master Yu Hai created his style from 2 styles. One like you said was 7 star praying mantis and the other being liu he. Even though it's not traditional it still works like 7 star or 6 harmonies. There are people that practice this as Wushu and as traditional fighting Style, may be not in China but outside of china definitely being taught as an actual Style.

I consider modern wushu like a fake diamond ring..Don't want to wear it but admiring by looking at it.

Its real interesting you say this, how traditional artist are now copying modern wushu..... its like they are copying people who were originally copying them but didnt really know what was going on so they focused on the aesthetics of it... i actually see this even in traditional indigenous dances amongst different tribes who end up being influenced by the people who are trying to copy their dances but focus on the aesthetics instead of meaning of the movement. Its weird but it must be human nature when people focus on performance aesthetics and don’t teach what all that movement is really about.

So are u saying Praying Mantis Kung Fu from Wudan mountain is fake?

Or, do Hakka Tong Long and avoid the entire public performance corruption. :)

@fatdoi003

3 жыл бұрын

Yes their forms not pleasing to the eyes but practical af

@The-Contractor

3 жыл бұрын

@@fatdoi003 True, with some systems having one or two taolu that contain all associated structures. Function is discovered, claimed, and mastered via touching hands and then crossing hands. Very pragmatic and real world functional.

I don't think the best fighters in the world are in the ring, cage or mat. They are people that have dedicated themselves to true martial arts. They have learned what chi is and how to use it. Among these are the Praying Mantis people.

Master LIN is my favorite

An additional question might be: " Why is mantis(and all other arts he claims knowledge in) always incorrectly portrayed by Jack Mace"? lol

Tong Long , Southern Preying Mantis not to be confused with Northern preying Mantis is a fighting Art developed to protect against the Manchus in the early 1800 was the last kungfu developed By An Yan . The Manchus banned the teaching of Martial arts. The story goes he was sick , the monks took care of him but while recuperating he watched a Mantis Kill a bird.Later the Monks helped him develop the Mantis movements into a fighting Art.It’s not pretty to look at like the Shaolin Wushu. The art has been lost in China , with teaching of it going “ underground “ and has been developed around the world as far away as the UK. Even as I’ve studied it over 20 years in Australia the style still uses the traditional forms but is used with Tai Chi to make it more useable and certainly more powerful. Traditionally proponents must utilise the practise of the iron jacket of body , limbs and hands conditioned along with the single hand techniques and forms to practical jongs using all the presaid. It’s not for the faint hearted and takes years to master. As my master once said “You’ll get hit harder in training than you will on the street”. a very powerful martial art with unique methods of bringing energy to the hand .