Also haven't been impressed by these 6k full frame Blackmagics unfortunatly, especially at higher ISOs. They are outperfromed by older / cheaper Blackmagics with smaller sensors which is insane to me and also outperformed by many other cameras with the same sensor like the Panasonic S1H, S5, S5ii, etc, Kinefinity, Ronin 4d, Nikons, etc. Glad someones posting tests

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

Ya man 100% 🙌 at least you get it why I post them so many simpy fanboys buthurt about it lol

@clermontmondy3447

Ай бұрын

With that 1k discount you still impressed bout getting one??

@ShaneVanLitz

Ай бұрын

@@clermontmondy3447 I do actually think it's a lot more tempting if you can get one at that price while they're in stock! Still not a perfect camera, but nothing is!

I can understand what you're saying but, this is not a BM problem but all cinema camera problem. They're not made to be used as a sony A7SIII or this kind of tool. Arri, Red, BM are made for cinema work so, a control lighting of your set up. I worked with Arri too and it is extremely noisy if it is not used in good situations.

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

Lol you need to watch it again. Im comparing two BM cameras

@blackwhitepictures4291

2 ай бұрын

@@CINENIMUS I don't make a word about your comparison. I just offer my experience about all BM cameras and Arri cameras I used a lot.

@MtZionMediaPro

Ай бұрын

Well the thing with those other cameras is that they have a higher dynamic range, so it has better low light performance inherently

Ever tried to push an ARRI Alexa? Except of the excellent dynamic range, there is really heavy noise from ISO 3200. I don't think anyone will call the camera bad because of that. Some cameras need better lighting conditions (also several ARRI cams) and some have built in denoiser algorythms (like Sony). The result of the image matters and I think even in the "Creator" movie, there wasn`t any moment without controlled lighting on the set. Bigger sensors usually getting hot. That causes noise. If your Cam just records RAW, all the noise will be recorded, there is no noise reduction (No matter if ARRI-RAW or B-RAW). But you have the joice to buy a Sony cam. I personaly prefer the look of B-RAW.

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

Am I comparing it to Arri? Read the description it will help

@aybee5908

Ай бұрын

@@CINENIMUS You`re talking about a full frame sensor, that is noisy. I got it. Causes same thoughts.

No saying it’s a bad camera but I’m glad I didn’t pre-order the Pyxis 6K as my main production camera, I Went Komodo.

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

MUCH better choice my friend 👌

@bbrunorocha

2 ай бұрын

Komodo is worse in low light, I've had both

@AndyLSB

2 ай бұрын

@@bbrunorocha well I respectfully disagree, knowing how to manage the raw in post production, selecting the iso to preserve the shadow detail, since you have it you probably know RED applies the ISO in a different way that BM and most cameras and giving the fact that the R3D has a chroma noise tool built in davinci, I wouldn’t say it’s worst really.

@bbrunorocha

2 ай бұрын

@@AndyLSB RED only has one ISO option, while dual gain cameras, will always be superior in low light. You can make the argument that in the first ISO range, RED would be better than the pocket, but as soon as you hit 1250 and you reset the ISO on the bmd, it's a lot better. Regarding the way RED applies ISO, it's not that different from an Arri camera, which also only have one base ISO, the difference would be how they set their Middle grey and how many stops above and below you have it. Regarding ISO, if you check the bmd charts of it, and compare with the test, you will also see that doing a 1000 ISO + 4 stops, in low light, it's completely counter intuitive because that's not how you expose at 1000 or 6400 ISO. This values are supposed to be used with a lot of available light because it's the range where you have the highest range of highlight and not shadows, that's why you will have a lot of noise. Understanding your gear is super important, because in the end they are just tools and we need to know how to use them, especially if you work as a professional dop.

@btconnergaming

29 күн бұрын

The Komodo’s low light is the worst I’ve test in almost any camera. Horrible chroma noise at virtually every level above 2000 iso or so

Please do a highlight retention test between the cameras. Great video

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

Ok will do

I just wanted to say that your talking head setup looks awesome

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

Well thank you

@SwishBeats

21 күн бұрын

would love to see a breakdown of this talking head! Looks amazing

@CINENIMUS

21 күн бұрын

@SwishBeats its nothing soecial

Is it an issue with the full-frame sensor size, or an issue with the models of Sony Exmor R full-frame sensors in the Blackmagic and Panasonic cameras?

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

No idea but my guess is cheap sensor + cheap electronics inside

@geoffreybassett6741

Ай бұрын

The Panasonic is cleaner at 4000 than this camera.

I’d be curious if you add this to your test list. What if the full frame sensor isn’t as good compressed, but maybe do a Q0 test? Was this Q0?

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

This was a Q0 I do tests at their best possible minimal compression

I totally understand understand what your saying about the dreamy film look, the PANAVISION look. And yes a lot of these cameras look too sharp. A simple adjustment using Lumetri color in Adobe After Effects works wonders. I will stay with full frame.

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

Good for you brother your vision is yours to keep 🙌

For me the main advantage of full frame is more choice of wide lenses, 2.8 zoom lenses which are shallow enough for most situations and as I work with a photographer a lot it’s handy to have matching focal lengths when setting up scenes. It’s a shame the full frame doesn’t have a great sensor. My frustration with the 6K pro is the smaller than normal super 35 sensor. I was hoping the ff would solve this even shooting cropped.

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

I’m living in the same dilemma exactly the same and I don’t fancy keeping both it suuuuucks

could it be something to do with the distribution of the dynamic range on the 6k full frame being different than that of the 6k pro? purely based off of footage I've seen, it seems like the full frame has better highlight rolloff than the 6kpro, so perhaps it's that the full frame has more stops of its dynamic range dedicated towards highlight detail than shadow detail when compared against the 6kpro

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

I will test that and let you know but my feeling is No

@RubenStuveling

Ай бұрын

No highlights retention is about the same.

@nexuscomm5916

Ай бұрын

Bingo!

@nexuscomm5916

Ай бұрын

You are totally CORRECT! Same thing happens with Alexa VS V Raptor. If you compare Both cameras @ ISO 800 the Raptor might look as clean as the Alexa. The truth is that Alexa LF has about 2 stops more highlight headroom. So, in order to make a CORRECT comparison the V Raptor needs to be set up @ ISO 3200 and the Alexa @ ISO 800 so both cameras have the same amount of highlight stops. Only then you can see with camera has more Dynamic Range. Same thing happens with the 6K FF vs Pocket 6k.

@RubenStuveling

Ай бұрын

@@nexuscomm5916 Dude even Blackmagic specifies that the 6K full frame has the same DR as the 6K pro. Do you really think if the 6K full frame had more DR they wouldn’t specify it?

What camera and lens did you use for this video?

@CINENIMUS

8 күн бұрын

Same

I have worked with the 4k for years now, i have never past iso 1600 on anything proffesional really, maybe a doc gig here and there but always get nice results, if you want a nigthvision camera just buy something else. I preorder the pixys and if the image quality of the 6kFF is the one that i will get for the price its amazing. In the end if cant do great work on most modern cameras the problem its 100℅ operator related

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

If you dont push the grades sure

@JoseMarioLagos

2 ай бұрын

@@CINENIMUS I have graded this with Alexas this cameras hold up color great sure not Alexa but more than enough for a B cam on big budgets ir A cam on low budget work, better than a compressed h264 from a mirrorles for sure. Nothing can repair a bad story or poor lights thas for sure

@WanderAndringa

Ай бұрын

@@CINENIMUS I can confirm the 6K FF is the perfect camera for pushing in grades. The BRAW codec holds so much information and color fidelity. The Highlight roll off is just absolutly beautiful. I've owned and filmed with all the BM camera's. I wouldn't rely on this guy his opinion based on his review on a small figurine with ridiculous ISO's. He's basically treating it as a Sony FX3, which it obviously isn't. You can always grab some of the test footage shot by BM of their website and see for yourself. The images tell the whole story. This sensor is bang on the money!

@Frontigenics

24 күн бұрын

@@WanderAndringaexactly my thoughts as well. Grades ridiculously well. If you actually use production design and light your sets… the image from this FF6K is insane. Literally my favorite image next to Arri.

I’ve learned it’s just best to light your scenes when you can. The best noise performance I’ve gotten out of my sigma fp which is the unspoken hero of mirrorless FF in my opinion, is at ISO 100-200 in dimly light situations. Graded properly, it’s a dream. I don’t even wanna touch higher ISO’s unless I have to. Even shooting at 400 or 800 in dark situations looks bad.

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

I always shoot at 1000 on all BM cameras and they look clean AF. Just look at my videos

@Jeff_Lathrop

26 күн бұрын

Why would you shoot 1000 instead of 1250?

Interesting… but I don’t remember the last time I even shot anything that wasn’t lit as a set. Even with minimal lighting… 400-800ISO is almost too much. I guess if you’re doing a documentary this might be important.

@CINENIMUS

23 күн бұрын

If you shoot on sets you dont looks at cheap blackmagic cameras unless you count your mommas basement s set 😅

@Frontigenics

23 күн бұрын

​@@CINENIMUS you seem to have sort of a weird boomer-camera-complex. But no, I shoot in a former Paramount soundstage. I look at image, not price. Blackmagic is the best outside of Arri. Most cameras from $2500-$100,000k are within 10% image-quality wise. You're almost dumb if you're overpaying at this point.

@theinnerdreamer7043

14 күн бұрын

I don’t know what it is about this guy but he just gives me the weirdest vibe.

interesting! I'd take a bit of extra noise for the extra field of view and lens compression for similar framing. With sony's i've noticed a lot of their ff have les noise in s35 mode and a6000 series seems to have less noise than equivilent a7 series. FF might gather more light but maybe that doesn't equate to less video noise.

@CINENIMUS

22 күн бұрын

Then go and buy it

@Shauny_D

22 күн бұрын

@@CINENIMUS oh i have one maybe 3 😉 Can’t beat the multicam setups with bmd cams and an atem mini.

the processor can't keep up with the larger sensor. It's the same CPU going back to the Pocket 4k.

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

Honestly thats how it looks like! That was my exact thought when I first saw it. Shame such a penny pinching move by the looks

@RubenStuveling

Ай бұрын

In the announcement video Grant Petty said the 6K full frame had all new electronics on the inside. That it was totally different from previous pocket camera’s. I’m starting to think that that might be the issue. Maybe they have cut some corners to keep it cheap..

@jmac2050

Ай бұрын

@@RubenStuveling "new electronics" could mean anything from, the manufacturing date to new cheaper parts; but, all fall in the range of what the software updates manage to pass. basically the software is limited by the hardware, regardless, new or old electronics. hence, the software is pretty much the same on all their camera. So, basically the cameras are basically the same, with minus or plus some feature and form factor to differentiate

@RubenStuveling

Ай бұрын

@@jmac2050 Not sure what your point is here...

@jmac2050

Ай бұрын

marketing Chicanery, or don't believe the hype

It's a strage behaviour because technically a 6k full frame sensor has bigger photosites than 6k Super35, so on the paper it should have better Dynamic range and low light performance. I don't know why BM gave lower performance to the 6K FF. Maybe a bigger sensor takes too much calculating power so the bottle neck the camera. Another problem could be the software, maybe try different (if there is a new update). For example, there was a big software bug in 8.0 in which the volume gain of external input could not be adjusted correctly. So maybe the 6K FF is not optimized correctly and iso performance are worse!

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

No no software is all up to date. Its consistent in terms of results of what CINED posted in their latitude and DR testing I just pushed a bit more extreme.

Cause it doesn't have internal noise reduction. And thanks good for that? Thay have to do it because otherwise we would have softest 6k footage in the world. OLPF filter already smudges and softness the image id they aded noise reduction it would be so soft and unusable for 6k camera. They shouldn't even add OLPF in the first place.

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

Did you even watch the video? Im comparing two blackmagic cameras not ALL mirrorless

@smalldeekgeorge

2 ай бұрын

I made the comment during video 😂 finished now 😁

thanks helpful

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

Glad it was for you 🙏

3:00 dune 2 dosent look good?

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

For you maybe not for me sorry

I have both cameras. These are my two cents. When you introduce a Full Frame Sensor, you're going to see a slight Enhancement in color, dynamic range and contrast. It's a NEW sensor, This makes the image quality a bit more "enhanced" looking. It also makes the image look a bit more on the reddish tint from what I've noticed. But it still has that Cinema quality. It doesn't look like a mirrorless imo. Straight out of camera it is what it is, you're going to see a more "enhanced" look on the FF, it won't compare to the 6pro, it's a new sensor. It's all about the end product, and that's when you'll say "wow" It's funny how people hate on a camera when they haven't even worked with it (not saying you) I'm talking about the people in the comment section. The camera may have 1000 issues, but the image quality ain't one of them haha When it comes to noise, I've never had that problem but it's good to know. Don't bigger sensors introduce more noise? The 6k Pro has an older 35 sensor. It looks more organic, more on the warmer side with a different highlight roll-off, hence the "cinematic" look we all love, and why you may comapare it to ALEXA and RED. BUT, I believe the Blackmagic FF still has the "film look" that Blackmagics are know for, and at first I had that same feeling like, why doesn't it compare to the 6k Pro, but now, I'm loving the image sooo much more, and honestly, there are so many ways to make the FF more organic and even look better than the 6k pro. The beautiful thing about the FF is that you have the option to make your image look clean and beautiful or organic and beautiful haha. So, people judging by these comparisons is pointless. I'd say, rent the FF and see how beautiful the image really is. Or you can check out " @OfTwoLands channel and see his footage. Amazing. And by the way, the new alexas are looking more enhanced and less organic than they used to be. Sensors are getting bigger and cleaner. Also, apparently, people are having noise issues when they updated the firmware software. Check to see if you’re having that same issue. Here is the video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/g5is2Kadl6-ehbA.htmlsi=JA7V_p7e8L8zD_gl

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

Tldr

@jdsmedia

2 ай бұрын

not a new sensor, if im not mistaken, its the same sensor the S1H uses, which would make it more than 5 years old... Great sensor, great image, not new.

@patricioderito3722

2 ай бұрын

@@jdsmedia I don't think they share the same sensor. Where did you hear that?

@patricioderito3722

2 ай бұрын

@@CINENIMUS huh?

@erosefilms

2 ай бұрын

⁠@@jdsmediathe sensor size for the S1H is 35.6 x 23.8 while the one on the bmcc 6K is 36x24. Yes it is a good sensor but different for this one .

Seriously, your video quality is A1 sauce. Camera and light, used?

@CINENIMUS

28 күн бұрын

Thanks all cheap blackmagic cameras, sigma art lenses and diy lights

@cryptofitnessandgaming-cfg

28 күн бұрын

@@CINENIMUS 🔥🔥. I need to work on mastering my cameras, and stop buying more stuff.

I guessing heat = more noise? reason for this is that the R5C and R5 has the same sensor, but R5C has higher dynamic range (lower noise - same shit). Maybe putting a full frame sensor on the same body, it produces more heat hence more noise. Not sure if it's the case but it could be a possibility.

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

Nah looks like just a shitty cheapo sensor

@Slipsch

2 ай бұрын

@@CINENIMUS I think it's the same sensor used in the A7III, S5II/X, bunch of Nikons.

@ShaneVanLitz

Ай бұрын

@@Slipsch And the Z Cam F6, Kinefinity Mavo LF, S1H, Ronin 4D... In the case, it's the camera, not the sensor - Although the sensor is so old now I wish we could all move past it!

Interesting as we think the ff 6k has a much more cinematic image out of body. The 6k pro looks very video like

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

What are you high lol

@youngonestudio

Ай бұрын

@@CINENIMUS nope

There is a Key component to filmmaking that has been lost here, and it's called lights, and the exposure triangle has to play a role. Did you go to film school? I'm just curious: if not, where did you learn how to shoot?

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

From your momma

@Wheelieblue

Ай бұрын

Don’t bother asking him questions like that man, he just insults people if you don’t agree with him 😅

@AaronStowers

Ай бұрын

@@CINENIMUS Well, if you had learned from my mother, she would have taught you how to properly expose a scene. In fact, she worked for Columbia Pictures for 15 years and taught film production for 5 years at Wayne State University before her death. She also influenced my 2nd cousin's, who happens to be the Hughes Brothers. And one of them Directed the Book of Eli. My mother has influenced many filmmakers in the industry to this day. As for me, I currently work for Fox Sports and have also worked on two of the last 3 Transformer films. In conclusion, I took the liberty of copying a part of one of my mother's lectures on the Ansel Theory for you. I hope this helps so next time, you will be telling the truth that you learned something from my mother. The Zone System The core concept: The Zone System is a method to precisely control the tones in your photographs by linking the exposure you choose with the desired levels of shadow and highlighting detail in your final image. The Zones: Adams divided photographic tones into eleven zones: Zone 0: Pure black (no detail) Zone I - IV: Very dark shadows with progressively more detail Zone V: Middle gray (the 'reference' gray) Zone VI-IX: Progressively lighter highlights with less detail Zone X: Pure white (no detail) "Expose for the shadows, develop for the highlights": Adams' philosophy was to ensure you capture enough detail in the darkest parts of the scene (expose for the shadows) and control how those details are rendered in the final print by adjusting the film's development time. How Does This Apply to Modern Photography? Histograms: Digital cameras give us a real-time histogram, a visual representation of the tonal distribution in a scene. The Zone System concepts directly translate to histograms. You want to avoid heavily clipping your histogram on either side, as that means lost detail. Expose to the Right (ETTR): ETTR is a digital photography technique related to the Zone System. The idea is to push the exposure to the right side of the histogram (brighter) as far as possible without 'blowing out' the highlights. This maximizes the capture of shadow detail and minimizes noise. Development is Now Post-Processing: We now digitally develop our photographs in software like Lightroom or Photoshop. You still control the mapping of shadow and highlight details but with tools like Curves, Levels, and more. ISO's Role in Adams' Approach Film Sensitivity: In the film era, ISO was the sensitivity of your film to light. Lower ISO meant less sensitivity (good for bright conditions) and finer grain. Higher ISO meant more sensitivity (good for low light) but increased graininess. Trade-offs: Adams strived for the highest quality negatives possible. Generally, this meant shooting at the lowest native ISO of his film for the finest grain and maximizing detail capture. However, sometimes, low light conditions would necessitate a compromise by using a higher ISO film. Key Takeaways: The Zone System is about understanding the tonal range you want and how to achieve it through exposure and development (now done post-capture). Even in the digital era, the Zone System concepts still help you visualize and optimize your exposure for the desired outcome. ISO today functions similarly to film ISO. Choose the lowest ISO you can for a scene to maximize quality, but adjust as needed when shooting conditions demand it.

@PhilK.-vp8ho

Ай бұрын

@@CINENIMUS Wow, super mature answer. What a dbag...

@russrushdown6060

Ай бұрын

While I think it's important to use solid lighting in real world scenario, I believe the end goal of these tests is to better understand why the sensor, in spite of having more/larger photosites and should in theory improve the low-noise performance, under performs against a smaller sensor size. In taking steps to understand that behavior you can then know your options in the real world. I think BMs ISO/Dynamic Range chart is always kind of confusing as a reference though, always wondered if there's a better chart to interpret that information. I'm hoping to understand more about what would cause so much aliasing for the sensor so I look forward to the findings!

1917. Shot on mini LF with tack sharp/clean signatures

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

And?

@dp_zee

Ай бұрын

​@@CINENIMUS and does that one not look good?

I find these comparisons funny. As you said, sony cameras have in camera noise reducing, that's it. The footage isn't magically less noisy. It's not much different to just putting the footage into a software and denoising it.

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

Was I comparing Blackmegic to sony? Or blackmagic to blackmagic?

@fufu1405

2 ай бұрын

@@CINENIMUS No no you're right, I don't mean the main comparison, I shouldn't have written it like that. You just mentioned sony quickly and how good they are in low light.

DR is the same but is distributed differently.

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

sure doesn't change the fact that ISO is atrocious by even 6k Pro standards (which is their old cameras)

@nexuscomm5916

Ай бұрын

@@CINENIMUS Its kind of the same (maybe half a stop better). The stops are distributed differently (more stops for the highlights hence why ISO 800 might look "noisier" because it can hold as many stops as ISO 1000 when compared to pocket 6K.

I said this about the *Pocket Original* camera. After that camera, they shied away from that film coated texture look and I didn't like that. If the newer cameras had that original look, Blackmagic would be on to something. The *Pocket Original* was so film like....., dang.

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

You know people keep telling me that

@RubenStuveling

Ай бұрын

They were really special. The Ursa 4.6K has the same type of sensor. Really like that look.

Hello hello!) Still posting haha Regarding BM FF, as we established, and now I call it The Worsr BM Camera, That UNFORTUNATELY Doesn't Have Any Alternatives (in the price range at least). Waiting for komodo prices to drop. S35 foreva haha

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

Stop saying that! 🙈

😤☹️

This is shockingly bad, thanks for making these. My goodness. Lol And I still have the Pocket 4k. I am sorry but I refuse to buy anything new unless of course I have the disposable cash to throw at it. Because ultimately, you can make a lot of things look good with pretty much any camera.

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

You are welcome

Good news, I thake my 6kpro and don’t buy the full frame. Thank you.

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

You are very welcome my friend

I think when you are using the tools wrong, the one that screams out is actually the better one. in such lowlight you wouldn't use that high iso so the camera showing noise is screaming at you to fix what you are doing.

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

So betters tools are those what perform worse when pushed to their limits??? Please I hope you are not doing anything engineering related with theories like that and if you do - STOP IT now.

Want to see something fun? I bet the 4K Super 35 mode is cleaner.

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

? No.

Always sacrifice lowlight for dr. Ff 6k has drastically better dynamic range. It’s always a payoff

@CINENIMUS

Ай бұрын

Are you just trolling

@youngonestudio

Ай бұрын

@@CINENIMUS nope nope

I was expecting blackmagic FF to perform at least slightly better, but not worse 👎🏻🤯 shocking results 🫣

@CINENIMUS

2 ай бұрын

I think Blackmagic are compressing the Full Frame files a bit too much, a test I done today kinda indicates that need more to confirm 100%.

@stwostudio

2 ай бұрын

Waiting for Ur others tests 🤩😁