When you use this link to visit our sponsor, you support us► Trend diamond stones: amzn.to/2XomWMi

@craiglittle4606

3 жыл бұрын

Stumpy Nubs I am trying to decide between the Nova Orion DVR Lathe and the Harvey turbo T-60s any advice?

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

That's a tough one. I've had the Nova for a couple years, but the Harvey for only a couple weeks. My favorite bit about the Nova was the full variable speed without changing belts, and the cool digital options in the computer. But the Harvey has a range of 90RPM to 4300RPM with a single belt setting. The only reason to ever touch the belt is if you want to go slower than 90RPM, which I don't see a need for very often at all. The Harvey is a more robust machine with a heavier bed that's a single piece, while the NOVA is split in the center of the bed. The Harvey also has a better fit and finish. Both are nice lathes that will get the job done. So you have to decide between the digital options of the Nova, or the better overall quality of the Harvey.

@robohjhonson3711

3 жыл бұрын

I’m not sure why people talk about expensive stones. I use an oil stone from the hardware store with a bevel gauge also the hardware store, then finish with some thick leather and fine polish paste (stick). I get hair cutting results. This is my experience as a 14y/o woodworker

@craiglittle4606

3 жыл бұрын

Stumpy Nubs Thanks James, I think it best to go with overall quality.

@TheOlsonOutfit

3 жыл бұрын

Do you have a recommendation for a ceramic stone?

When the thinking of three of my favorite KZread gurus comes together, I listen. I’m not buying diamond dust that I have to sweep or wipe up and throw away. Gracias James.

I was a Sr. Engineer at a plant that made diamond coated grinding wheels and some other things. You’re absolutely right about such fine grits being impossible to use with the nickel bonding process. I also question the need to use grits finer than about 800 to sharpen wood working tools. How sharp is sharp enough? I’m often guilty of overkill but 800 + a leather strop will get ya close enough for most chisel and plain work.

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

Nice to hear from another source :) ... As for grit, I usually sharpen with a 1000 grit diamond stone, then a leather strop and paste. For smoothing planes, or paring chisels that need to be REALLY sharp I will use a 8K or 16K grit ceramic stone. Not because the strop and paste won't get me there, but because I can move the tool across the stone faster than on leather, which can only be stropped in one direction.

@soylentgreen326

3 жыл бұрын

Nearly in a strop there Stumpy 🤣🤣

@CarlBurnss

3 жыл бұрын

Do they electroplate the nickel?

@zoutewand

3 жыл бұрын

There's a guy who tested this out with planes. He went all the way to 16,000 grit (vs 'just' a 1000 grit) and it makes a big difference!

@zoutewand

3 жыл бұрын

The biggest difference is in ease of planing and tear out I think? The video is kinda controversial lol

Your presentation skills are remarkable. I really enjoy your videos. Nice work! 👍

You can use find diamond paste on steel honing plates.

Wow. You answered the very question I’ve been trying to find an answer for. Thank goodness they were sold out of the 8000 grit last month!

Thanks for sharing with us and the good information James. Fred

I have been fallowing you for about 8 years and I still enjoy all of the great information you put in your videos.

Thanks for the explanation. I switched to ceramic stones for finer grits a while back as I just never liked the results finer diamond stones gave me. I don’t use strops for chisels anymore as it can round over the back which can cause issues when you want to reference against the back of the chisel blade such as cutting down the wall of a mortise or flush cutting. It’s a small thing that isn’t a huge issue either way, I just got into the habit of going to the ceramic stones instead of a strop.

I just got the Trend 300/1000 grit bench stone and have been thinking about something finer. I will stay with a strop for now but thanks for letting me know that a diamond stone is not the right choice for the next investment!

Just wanted to say thanks for the great info you have here and on the other video you made about diamond stones. I'm not a wood worker, but own several quality knives that I want to keep sharp with less effort than it takes with my traditional whet stones. I appreciate your effort to create and post this video. Brum

Excellent explanation about the manufacturing process of course and medium grit diamond plates versus fine grit. I found myself preferring an Atoma 1000 or 1200, and transitioning to Japanese whetstones at 3,000, 5,000, or 8,000 grit as needed. For any higher polishing, I go to a leather strop and diamond paste. Looks beautiful and performs well.

Good advice as always, thanks👍

I bought the Trend kit on your recommendation and agree it's the sweet spot for woodworking tools. I've also used it to do some other blades that needed some love. The 300 flattens fast, and the 1000 is perfect for getting a burr quickly from then on. The strop does plenty from there (heck, some woodcarvers ONLY ever strop with a little compound). I'll probably end up with some high-quality waterstones for sharpening Japanese kitchen knives, so we'll see if one ends up near the workbench eventually.

Excellent explanation!

Thanks for the video! You just saved me some money!

Excellent info! Thank you... 👍

Thanks for this!

I had wondered. Thanks.

Thank you so much, that saved the day!!!

A friend of mine bought the DMT 8000 grit plate to try as the first grit he'd use on a straight razor. It cut way too quickly for that purpose so I bought it off him for my woodworking tools. It gives a beautiful mirror shine to my bevels. The problem is it actually tends to Dull my edges! You can see artifacts from the manufacturing process that have Definitely done exactly what you said and compromised the flatness of the cutting surface. My edges, constantly transitioning from low spots to high spots are significantly less sharp than they started straight off my 1200 grit plate. I've got a full set of DMT plates and I love all of them, except the 8000.

Well said!

thank you

Devils Advocate: the 4000 & 8000 grit DMT stones are about all I ever use going down to 1000 only if I can see damage. 10-15 strokes each grit. Feel for even burr then flip to take off burr. I admit not knowing the manufacture process but what works, works. I do not believe 8000 on diamonds is as fine as 8000 on my old Norton water stone which is why I always thought others switched to other stones.(edit: been using same stones heavily for 7-8 years as am mainly HT worker.)

@wortheffort

3 жыл бұрын

Somewhere I also heard it takes a while to “bed in” higher grits as there some course ness in manufacturing that needs to wear off. This is the case with my 8000 as the corners (which I rarely use) feel grabbier. Again, this is experience based not research.

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

I find that when it comes to sharpening, experience is 80 percent perception, 20 percent reality. A couple guys in these comments swear by their 8k plates, and a couple claim the opposite experience. Which is reality and which is perception? Who can say. It is true that what works, works. But I know someone who claims only oil stones work for him. Another guy commented above that he gets great results from stropping AFTER an 8k stone, even though the strop is coarser than the stone. The funny thing is, they are all right! If it works for them, who can argue with it:)

@laurelsporter4569

3 жыл бұрын

Water stones often use softer abrasives, that can break down from use, or even bake in finer abrasives, to behave more like natural stones. As you work in the mud, you'll be polishing a bit, and not cutting so aggressively as at the start.

@TrevorDennis100

3 жыл бұрын

@@StumpyNubs James, it seems to me that having a repeatable test for sharpness (cutting paper at 90°) and visual as seen through a 10X loupe takes the guess work out of it. I know that my edges won't pass the paper cut test straight from my 8000 DMT diamond plate. It takes some elbow grease and honing them to achieve that.

@GurpreetSingh-hv7bv

3 жыл бұрын

@@StumpyNubs Ok don't laugh, I have been watching you for years. This comment hit home. I would say Experience is the dominant factor. I am a weekend/fair weather hobbyist. Almost 95% of my tools are used bought off ebay/kijiji etc. My first stones were from dollar store. Then I started buying cheap stones with higher grits from Amazon. With time, as they had almost worn out, I decided I would buy something better and bought Trend/Norton stones. However, they just didn't feel the same and my perception was that I wasn't getting the same results. I eventually ended up buy the cheap stones again. Like you said, whatever makes you happy/satisfied. Thank you so much for your time.

Thankyou , great info

That seems to explain why you don't see them so often. I don't think I'll bother! Glad to see your hand's looking OK again too. Stay safe.

@toootankhamooon

3 жыл бұрын

What happened to his hand !?

@emm_arr

3 жыл бұрын

@@toootankhamooon kzread.info/dash/bejne/c2usuap-h9LcaLA.html A mishap with a power tool. The vid is titled 'How to shred 4 fingers with a woodworking power carving disc'.

Thanks

Great info, never heard that

I bought a set of 4, I think eze lap brand. The finest is 1200, which is fine enough to go to a strop as the final step. After a little use, I can't tell the Extra Course and the Course apart, so I use either one as the first step. The stones were much lower cost as a set of four, so I came out all right pricewise.

Makes sense

As always, concise and informative. Is that oil or water you use on top of the diamond stones?

James, YOU D MAN‼️😎👍👏

Other kinds of Diamond plates are available that address the issues you (rightly) bring up here. Naniwa makes Resin bond Diamond stones from 400 to 6000 grit that perform like waterstones, but cut and stay flat like diamond plates. They are flattenable to .0001" using silicone carbide powder on glass and hold that flatness for a long, long time. Very expensive, though ($160 or more). All the convenience of diamond with the versatility of waterstones. There are also Venev diamond plates that are similar and not quite as expensive, but hard to find as they are Russian made.

Good info

YEP! I only go down to ceramic which is probably 1000- 12000. After that I do a double strop. Step one is anywhere from 6-12 micron, and step 2 is 1- .5 micron. I make my own compounds, also with diamond dust, around 25%. Mirror shine, super razor sharp. Super shiny, super curly wood shavings all day long. once they stop shining, I hit the strop for a few passes and its right back to shiny curls.

Ok this explains why all my DMT fine and extra fine have hardly any diamonds left on them. I also bought a sharpal hand sharpener and the course side is like new but the fine side has severely deteriorated. I did not know this about diamond stones but this would explain why

It seems to be a hugely contentious argument with woodworkers, and no doubt the superfine stones can give an almost perfect edge, but how long does it last, what's the point if a few blows of a mallet has reduced the edge to the next grade down? I've been experimenting with automotive paint rubbing compound and metal polish on MDF boards for final finishing an edge which seems to give good results. I hate to say this though, but I always look back at the fine woodworking achieved by our forefathers without all this fancy stuff and think...it's more to do with skill and patience.

I use 1000 grit stone to sharpen my planer blades. For my chisels I am using a CBN wheel of 450 grit. I agree about an extra fine diamond stone.

Interesting information about the higher grit diamond stones. I don't have any so it looks like I won't be getting any. I do have some Shapton ceramic stones, 5K and 8K. They seem to work well. Ceramic stones have to be flattened after use though. Thank you for sharing and have a good day. Please stay healthy.

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

Shapton ceramic stones are excellent for fine grits. They aren't cheap, but the are tougher than water stones and need less work to keep them flat.

Hi, Great Useful Video. I am new to this, Just to confirm when using 300 Grid on a 25 or 30 Degree. I then need to do 1000 Grid at the same angle again. What's the benifit. Thank you

A good option these days for ultra-fine diamonds is resin bonded stones. They used to be hard to get but now loads of companies make them; Naniwa, Nanohone, Venev, and even King all make resin bonded diamond stones

nice video !

The finest grit diamond I use is a 1200 grit stone. If I want anything finer, I use a water stone, and possibly my translucent hard Arkansas stone - flea market bargain. I always finish with a strop and usually use a strop to restore edges several times between stone work.

I use cheap cheap diamond plates from ebay to about 240 grit. I have silicon carbide paper stuck on the back in 600,1000,1500 and 2000 grit. For a quick sharpen I use green chrome polish on a hard cloth buffing wheel. All up cost about $35. I do own a set of japanese waterstones but the plates are much less bulk. Only real trouble with the plates is you need to be carefull not to bend them.

@TheMrchuck2000

Жыл бұрын

I used those cheap plates (glued to a glass sheet) before I could afford “proper” diamond plates. I honestly think they work as well as my fancy new ones (though they will probably wear out quicker). The 3000 grit gives me a superb edge, which I follow with a strop if I feel like it.

do you have a plan for that nifty jig that the stones are on?

Fun fact: some manufacturers have non-standard gradation so extra fine might be a good investment. I have a set from coarse-extra fine, which is actually 600-1000 because they skip the "medium" gradation, extra coarse is 400, coarse is 600, fine 800 and extra fine 1000 Why I don't use 400? No need for it, if I'm basically bevelling a tool from scratch/fixing chips I'll use the belt sander :v

Using my Jende Jig, If a blade needs profiled, I start with 80grit diamond. If not, I start with 400grit diamond. Once I have a burr on 400 grit diamond, I strop the burr and polish with 1000grit. I don't look for a burr on 1000 grit constandly. I rotate the blade every 5 strokes and will do that for about 10min. Once I feel a slight burr, I strop the burr and then polish with JIS3000 ceramic ruby for 10 passes each side. Total time, 15min gets my blades 'hairs fly off the arm' shave sharp. Thats on SV35N and it lasts about 2-3 weeks.

Hello. I dont have woodworking tools. Im gonna get some soon,but i am a biginner in making knives and wondered if these stones wil work the same for sharpening knives

I was told my DMT green is 1200 grit. I have gone from there to ultra-fine wet-or-dry. I don't do that any more. After the DMT green, I go to the strop. That's plenty sharp for everything. If the strop wasn't so easy, I'd skip that and just start using the tool.

very interesting, but what's best for super steels in knives like S90v , S30v, M390 etc. I find your videos very interesting . Thanks

Paul cellars has an excellent sharpening system with the stropping at the end one which I adopted a few years ago, but I did make the mistake and buy the 1200 ultra fine easy lap, to much pressure while sharpening Will take off the diamond's 🥺😏😌🤓

In my experience, the sharper the edge, the faster it dulls. There is a limit to how much the bevel and back of a blade can achieve the so-called infinite point before it becomes brittle, breaks, and dulls. I think I remember hearing Cosman say, he sharpens his planes every few minutes. That's because he sharpens to 16,000 grit. Spending that much time sharpening would dive me nuts. Paul Sellers, on the other hand, sharpens to 1000 grit, and then strops, which is what I do, and sometimes I don't bother with the strop, which really doesn't add sharpness as much as smoothness and polish to the bevel. One of the things I've learned in 50 years of playing with wood and tools, is it's really easy to overthink, and by doing so, miss the fun and the point. Pun intended.

@TheReignharder

9 ай бұрын

and as @AVE said "get off KZread, go to the workshop and do some s%&t!!" :)

@stevealford230

7 ай бұрын

That old adage was coined, and is propagated, by people who don't adequately strop after sharpening. If you do, then a sharper blade will take longer to dull... but if you leave that microscopic burr on an extremely sharp apex, it will dull faster.

@mikafoxx2717

4 ай бұрын

This. It's such a well propagated myth. People thag think it dulls faster has not done a good job, and usually progress in too large grit steps. Its the edge geometry that determines the cutting ability, and the steel for the wearing speed..​@@stevealford230

@Trolldaddy5

2 ай бұрын

This is false. In fact the opposite is true

@mikafoxx2717

2 ай бұрын

@@Trolldaddy5 yep, it's been tested thouroughly. They even found a razor sharp knife lasted twice as long for cutting meat at a de-boning plant than a moderately sharp knife.

but what youre working with steels like maxamet?

How often do you find a Trend Diamond Sharpening Stone is not flat new out of the box? Mine felt bumpy or wavy after sharpening the backs of two chisels. It's worn unevenly.

Hello Stumpy, I am waiting for my Stanley No.8 Sweetheart to come over the ‘pond’! but could you advise me on how to check it’s flatness, I was thinking of a piece of 30”x10” granite from my local monumental sculpture manufacturer, but I don’t want to have him thinking I’m planning my own funeral!! I then wondered about either a lump of M.D.F. or kitchen worktop. Do you have any thoughts about this? Yours sincerely, ross

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

A jointer (machine) bed should be flat. Or a table saw top. But if you don't use machines, the granite is your best bet. MDF is stable, but not always flat. A kitchen counter top is definitely not guaranteed to be flat.

Hey what do you think of a lapping plate with diamond paste? I actually have the DMT extra extra fine diamond stone, which seems to have worked well for me, but then I usually follow that up with a lapping plate with 16k diamond paste. Is this actually benefitting me? I like to work with extremely hard woods, so I assumed this was the best route. It also seemed like a reasonably priced option compared to buying an expensive lapping stone to flatten water stones.

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

I have not used diamond paste. But that would be a different situation from a diamond stone because you refresh the paste over time.

How sharp is sharp - to me it depends on the wood I'm working with, harder the wood the sharper I want it.

@nerferfan

3 жыл бұрын

softer woods often need sharper tools in order to cut without it deforming. Soft wood is the most difficult end grain to cut, needs to be super sharp

@shanetimberedowl9541

3 жыл бұрын

@@nerferfan this is true but which one dulls your edge quicker? If you're choice of wood is lignum vitae, it's hard but is self lubricating, Brazilian teak does damage to your edge quickly

That explanation makes sense to me. The fact that I can't afford more than one diamond stone (a 300/1200 plate that I already bought on sale after doing my research on different manufacturing techniques and makers) is another reason I'll skip the extra-fine diamond or ceramic stones and stick to a strop. Sorry I can't help out with your sponsor... Just bad timing.

I use a fine diamond plate but after that I use a strop. I don´t know if the ultra fine diamond plates are bad, but they´re expensive and a strop is cheap and does the job. That makes the decision easy. I normally go for the cheapest solution that works. I know, all good diamond plates are expensive, but they´re convenient to use and always flat. That makes it worth it for sharpening but polishing is something different, because not very much material gets removed. The strop isn´t flat but it doesn´t affect the result. I just haave no use for ultra fine diamond plates.

Factoids like this stick with you ... YMMV. Thanks James🙏 😷Stay safe. -Mike

You are probably right. I use DMT diamond plates from 220, through 400, 1000 and 8000 grit and have used the Extra Extra Fine for a bit more than a year. It creates almost none of the black carbon slurry which I see from the other plates. I sharpen with the aid of a 10X loupe so I can inspect the surface finish and edge. I do see a degree of surface polishing using the loupe, but not much. Pehaps I have worn out the 8000 grit plate. I see much more polishing effect stropping with buffing compound on MDF. I think Rob Cosman uses a 16,000 grit stone btw.

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

I am sure there was grit on it at one time. But you aren't the first one I've heard say it didn't seem to last long...

@wdtaut5650

3 жыл бұрын

I suspect that 'carbon' slurry is actually steel powder from the tool you are sharpening. Steel has carbon in it but it is at the molecular level. I doubt you can separate it from the steel using a sharpening stone.

@TrevorDennis100

3 жыл бұрын

@@wdtaut5650 I've been told in YT comments that the black we see when sharpening steel is carbon from the steel. With a diamond plate (I never know how to refer to DMT diamond sharpeners, Stone? plate?) when you know it is not wear from the plate so has to come from the steel, so it makes sense to me.

@TrevorDennis100

3 жыл бұрын

James, I ordered a 3000/8000 whetstone after watching this video, so at the very least I'll be able to compare. At the risk of being a tads controversial, something I have been doing for a while now is using a felt pad in a Dremel for the final hone. You'd think it would roll the edge, but I place the blade on a block of wood level with the end, and hone with grey buffing compound. It gets a mirror finish in seconds. My test for sharpness is to hold a sheet of printer paper in finger and thumb, and advance the blade into the paper at 90° and a couple of inches (whoops! I mean 50mm) from where I am holding it. If cuts straight into the paper I call that job done. I've tried this same trick with a set of carving chisels that I paid about a $100 for, and it rolled the edge to the point where you could safely drag it across your skin without cutting yourself. I guess if nothing else I can use it as a test for rubbish tools.

@timokuhmonen5215

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting opinions here. I currently own couple DMT diamond plates, most fine of them is extra fine (1200 grit). After that I use 1200 wet sand paper on glass. I see the polishing effect there. So quess the similar sandpaper (1200 grit) might have finer particles, after paper is used couple of times ? With sanding paper burr strip is detached from blade edge. I use leather strop after this. **** As magnifying loupe, I use 1.25" telescope eyepiece in "wrong" direction. Maybe I need to still wait a while before ordering finer stones, I would prefer also stone that works on sharpening carving chisels....

Great videos, learning a lot. I'm a newbie and wanted to ask which do think is better, diamonds embedded in steel or nickel? Thanks!

@StumpyNubs

2 жыл бұрын

Diamonds are never, to my knowledge, embedded in steel. They are glued on (cheap stones) or electroplated to a steel substrate by embedding them in nickel, which is bonded to the steel. Here's a tutorial about diamond stone quality: kzread.info/dash/bejne/rHaCppienda5dZc.html

@MichaelE.Douroux

2 жыл бұрын

@@StumpyNubs Thanks for getting back. I'm sure my terminology is off, but for example I understand diamonds are "embedded" in steel for the Atomas, whereas Trend or DMT uses nickel. Hope this clarifies my question.

I've been using a fixed-angle sharpening system for the higher-end kitchen knives I sharpen and got the coarsest stones, right up to 1,000, 1,500, 2,000 & 3,000 grit diamond stones and although they give me a near mirror polish (I finish on a leather strop and chromium oxide to get the full mirror) they're wearing out too quickly so I'll look into ceramic plates to replace them.

@akierum

4 ай бұрын

have you found any 150 lenght ceramic plates? The diamond plates are 3Eur each too good price to beat.

@thechumpsbeendumped.7797

4 ай бұрын

@@akierum I've not seen the ceramic plates but have seen the resin-bonded plates and the prices are ridiculous, so I'm going to have a go at making my own. I've bought all the diamond grits from course to .5 microns and some epoxy resin. It may not work but I'm gonna give it a go. I agree the diamond plates are cheap but they wear out too quickly for the volume of sharpening I do.

@akierum

4 ай бұрын

@@thechumpsbeendumped.7797 Locally i can get typical aluminum blank150x25x6x 3mm diamond plates 3mm think diamond layer for about 40Eur but it's 26 pcs chinese grit3000 stones. I think these 26 will outlast the one for 40eur

The main beef I have with ultra fine Diamond is the "load up " factor... As a residential/contractor/industrial sharping service.. I am into carbide and Cobalt a lot an even with a coolant flood system , your ultra find diamond grits will load up an also wear down faster.. an in all honesty ceramic will do better in the finish department.. But as to; today's carbide tooling ? It is junk compared to the "old" original...

Is 600 grit diamonds to strop fine?

I've heard the turners really like CBN (Cubic Boron Nitride) grinding wheels. I haven't heard anything about CBN sharpening stones, but a Google search showed me they do exist. Anyone know how they compare to other types of sharpening stones?

@wortheffort

3 жыл бұрын

Turners rarely go higher that 240 grit. Usually 80 to 120.

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

That was true with HSS tools, but harder powdered steels are more durable and some turners are going up to 600 (some higher for their skews). That said, I don't think Scott's comment was necessarily about turning tools. CBN wheels and plates are used for woodworking tool sharpening as well.... To answer his question, I have some or the CBN plates for hand sharpening, but I have not tried them yet.

Have you tried the Shapton Glass Sharpening Stones ?

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

Yes. Those are the ceramic stones I refer to at the beginning of the video. They are the two white stones on the holder in front of me. They are only glass on the back, the actual sharpening side is ceramic.

@steven.woodward

3 жыл бұрын

@@StumpyNubs Thanks. What grit Shapton stones are you using, in addition to the 1000 grit diamond stone ?

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

Sometimes 5K, sometimes 16K, sometimes neither. Instead I use a strop and paste.

👍

Now I know why there are lines (ridges?) on my finest diamond stone: The glue :-o

Thought it was funny that you mention "machining a steel substrate perfectly flat to half a thousandth of an inch". Any machinist worth his salt will tell you that machining can't make anything "flat". That is the job of the surface grinder. Which, by the way, is commonly used to grind to tolerances of 50 millionths of an inch or greater. You know as well as I do that a well tuned hand plane will allow you to hand plane something to the thousandth of the inch. Not busting your chops just giving information.

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

Isn't a surface grinder a machine?

@nobuckle40

3 жыл бұрын

@@StumpyNubs Technically yes but in the trade they are seen as vastly different processes. Good question.

Hey, what do you think about these reviews on Amazon about the trend diamond stones? Have you seen those? The reviews have a large number of defective, delaminated or faulty stones. For the money I'm paying, I'd never take a risk like that - though the dmt products get way more much better reviews. This makes me think the Trend stones are either made in China or they're skimping on the quality control...? Thanks for the video, I appreciate your time.

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

Amazon reviews are a joke. I am quite sure you can find poor reviews for many of your favorite products. The laptop I am typing this on has several bad reviews, but it's been the best laptop I've had in years.... Trend's double sided, steel stones get 4.7 stars amzn.to/3fP3GD0. DMT's double sided steel stone gets 4.2 stars amzn.to/3ciiMPh. Other stones from both brands get around 4.5, give or take a little bit. You can find bad experiences with them both, but the vast majority are excellent.

@DonsWoodies

Жыл бұрын

@@StumpyNubs The Trend quality issue has gone downhill recently. Even Cosman a few months or so ago has quit using them and went to a different supplier. The local Woodcraft here has had to send back 3 of the last 5 we received due to quality issues. I hope they get their act together, since they used to be a good choice. Naniwa resin bond diamond is the way to go now, but unfortunately very expensive.

@StumpyNubs

Жыл бұрын

@@DonsWoodies I agree that they had some manufacturing issues pop up for a while. I believe they solved those issues more recently, though. In fact, I got a dozen of them for testing a few months ago and they were all flat and as nice as they used to be. That said, M-Power has also improved their stones, so it's nice to have multiple options :)

I realise the Trend combo stone you show in the video is aprox 300 grit on one side & 1000 grit on the other. I also am aware of the premium reputation these Trend diamond plates. For my purposes I require only one sided stones/plates. No need to go into why, but the other side would never be used as per my sharpening system. Hence I use DMT DiaSharp one sided diamond stones/plates that as far as I have been told are of similar quality as that of the Trend products. The DMT DiaSharp are heavy nickel plated mono-crystaline plates considered to be a premium product like the Trend. They are not the cheap perforated poly-crystaline plastic versions. Admittedly I have had mixed results (ie: flatness tolerances, uneven coating & surface scratches) always rectified by the manufacturer or seller to my satisfaction. I have 3 stones/plates I use regularly; 320 grit, 600 grit & finally 1200grit. The question I have for you is this: Do you think there is an appreciable difference between the 1000 grit & 1200 grit that I should be concerned with the issues you mentioned about ultra fine stones/plates & the adhesion? I too switch to ceramic & then strops after the 1200 grit. I suspect the same electro coating process is used for both the Trend & DMT products but do you think or know if the extra 200 grit would be manufactured differently than the 1000 grit Trend? I would just go with the Trend but as I mentioned, one side would go to waste & I would have to purchase 2 of the same stones to allow for the use of 300 grit & 1000 grit. I also require a medium grit of 600 for my applications. Three diamond stones/plates then ceramic followed by a leather strop with polishing compound. If required, I will also use an extra coarse diamond plate (not part of my set up) or a coarser Aluminum Oxide or Silicon Carbide stone to remove chips or re-profile. If the item permits, I will use my Tormek T8. I also have several other bench stones & guided fixed angle sharpeners. It's difficult to explain why I can only use one side of the plate but please believe that is my only option for this system unless I want to spend 15-20 minutes turning over & re-installing the diamond plate from 300 to 1000 grit between sharpening steps each time, otherwise I would just go with the Trend but even then, I would not have the necessary intermediary 600 grit I have with the DMT plates. Thank-you for any input, knowledge & or experience in this matter. I suspect there is little to no difference between the 1000 grit & 1200 grit as far as the manufacturing process goes but he more you know & all that. Cheers.

Wouldn’t the fine diamond stones be flatter than leather?

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

Leather is flexible. It will conform to the edge, which itself is flat from your stones. A stone is rigid. If it isn't flat it will be less effective, and if coarse enough, or sufficient strokes are applied, will change the shape of the iron.

When you use this link to visit our sponsor, you sponsor us. What if I subscribe to their site after an initial purchase? Do you get anything from me subscribing and buying multiple times from Trend or Ridge Carbide, or even Rockler?

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

I am not away of a subscription service at any of those retailers. But I get credit if you use one on links to buy from Trend on Amazon. And if you use my discount code at Ridge Carbide. Thanks for the support!

@danielromans6746

3 жыл бұрын

@@StumpyNubs I signed up for notices from these companies after my initial purchase and have been buying direct with my own log in on their sites. I'll use your links from now on instead.

i noticed quite a lot of 'trend diamond stone' videos popping up around the same time. this leads me to think perhaps they did a large marketing campaign where they paid quite a few people to promote them.

@StumpyNubs

2 жыл бұрын

Myself, Cosman and Sellers have all used Trend stones for years.

I have a couple of the DMT plates, including the Extra-Extra fine one (the one that I think is approx 8000 grit). It does do a good job of getting a fine edge on a plane blade or chisel. However, the difference between the surface you get from it and the surface from an 8000 grit waterstone is very different. The waterstone puts a much much better edge on the tool.

@green_building

3 жыл бұрын

Oh really ?! Can u explaine why waterstone better

@DonsWoodies

3 жыл бұрын

@@green_building James did a really good job of explaining it. Here's my best (short) explanation. The diamond particles are embedded in a nickel matrix that doesn't 'give'. Whatever is there does not move. If there are a couple pieces of diamond sticking higher than the rest, they will leave scratches that are simply impossible to get rid of without taking more of the steel away from the blade you are trying to sharpen. Everyone of those scratches degrades the edge so that it starts to deteriorate faster than it would otherwise. Of course, you can wear away that steel to get rid of the scratch, but that diamond particle is still there so bingo-bango the scratch is back. I realise that is a way oversimplification of what happens but beyond a 30 page article and pictures/videos I can't think of a better explanation. ( I probably will about an hour after I post this, but there ya go.) For proof of waterstones being able to produce a better surface, just take the highest grit diamond stone (8000 as far as normal humans are able to find) and the same grit waterstone, hone a blade with both and look at the scratch pattern with an eye loupe. The difference is amazing. Now, do you NEED that level of surface to do woodworking? Simple answer is no. Just look at Paul Sellers's work for all the proof you need. I use waterstones because I like the way they work and the surface I can get with them. Could I do the same work without them? Almost. There are times when I need the absolute best edge I can get, and that ain't happening with Diamond stones alone. Both Diamond and waterstones take a bit of skill to get the best from them, waterstones being the harder of the two, IMHO. Strops are another device where everyone has a different opinion. Mine is that I use strops sparingly for initial sharpening, but I'll refresh an edge with a strop while using a tool, especially chisels. Plane blades, I'll just go back to the stones for a touchup since you already have to partially disassemble the blade anyway, unlike a chisel where you just have to turn to the strop, hit it a couple times and back to work in about 4 seconds. I worked with metal my whole life and I can tell you there is a lot more to it than just being shiny. Parallel, flatness, wear resistance, hardness, toughness, etc. These are all aspects of that blade, chisel, knife or whatever, and they all mean something. Sorry for the long post. Live long and prosper!

What project are you working on now? No clues from your recent videos.

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

The one wall workshop, a drill press cart, and a router bit cabinet.

Now that's more like it. That was funny! Just kidding of course.

Id rather use a poly diamond emulsion

I still use oil stones. I can shave with my chisels and plane blades. Get sharp and get on with it.

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

Diamond stones are just another type of stone. Get sharp and get on with it applies the same in either case.

@tropifiori

3 жыл бұрын

Stumpy Nubs I was going to argue that the diamond stones were way more expensive. However, I looked it up and the price for diamond stones has come way down.

How many steels can really benefit, anyway? If your chisel is white ＃1, or a fancy sintered super steel, OK, I might entertain it, at least. I've got a couple kitchen knives that really do benefit from fine stones, and suffer from stopping at 1-2K. But, most tools are made with softer, durability-focused western tool steel, and just don't have the fine even carbides that would make it worth it. I also don't see a potential advantage, except maybe for certain types of planes - *maybe*. Just strop to smooth it out, and get rid of any microscopic rough parts. If you compared edges after some light use, to have removed any poorly secured bits of the edge, under an electronic microscope, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of chisels and irons end up equally sharp around 600 grit as 1200 grit, much less super extra fine grits (keep in mind that sharpening on X grit will generally result in a finer edge than the grit size, too).

I prefer using glass plate under wet an dry, easy to replace worn cloth and use any grit you want

What are ultra fine, super fine, extra fine,,extra extra fine ,are this all terms for the same grit size? 🤔 Very confusing, they should write 1000grit ect on them instead inventing more termed that confuse me. 🤔 Would be a 1000grit ire fine the same and is it enough to sharpen a knife paper cutting sharp? 🤔 DMT ist confusing me very much.

Because your precision is >.01mm?😅jpk

@StumpyNubs

3 ай бұрын

What?

I would prefer to use a diamond grinding stone to dress a traditional stone flat but not too flat.

@DavidBaumgarner

Жыл бұрын

There are sooo many good comments on here, and so many good but very different processes being shared that can all work. This is another of those good options. Especially for people who are used to traditional stones and dont want or need to change. A cheapish diamond flattening stone is a pretty good way to keep a stone flat. I have gotten used to the diamond plates and I feel like they save me time because they cut so much faster compared to the same grits. But I have also switched to unicorn sharpening method on a buffer and so now the stone part is less crucial and I find that I am less particular about the stone part of the equation. The finish on the edge is ridiculously polished and sharp and its all so much faster for me.

I bought a LDB6E Lansky stone and while it says its 1000 grit, the roughness of the slab itself seemed to have become much smoother after just one sharpening knife session. I feel like these things are just a scam at this point.

@TheMrchuck2000

Жыл бұрын

Diamond plates ALL require a break-in period. That explains why your stone made that change. The recommendation is to “break in” every diamond stone with a piece of steel that you don’t care about (an old plane blade, or a cheap knife), rubbing it lightly over the entire surface of your new diamond plate. This knocks of any errant, large pieces of diamond, leaving a smooth field of same-sized diamond. You’re not really losing sharpening effectiveness, though it may seem that way; you’re just preparing the plate. Hope that helps!

@NevaranUniverse

Жыл бұрын

@@TheMrchuck2000 Gotcha, makes sense

Its not a great diamond stone unless it costs you two-month's salary! .. LOL...

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

Who said that?

@fuzzy1dk

3 жыл бұрын

@@StumpyNubs I assume it was a joke about diamond engagement rings

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

@@fuzzy1dk I see :)

@schm4704

3 жыл бұрын

My irony detector is mis-calibrated right now, but whatever: at 320 bucks for the two-piece set, that's gonna buy me a whole bunch of waterstones. In my experience, diamond plates (DMT and EZ Lap in my case) don't last all that long, and the cutting slows down considerably after the very brief honeymoon is over.

@StumpyNubs

3 жыл бұрын

My experience with Trend diamond stones has been the opposite. And the 300/1000 set, which is all you need, is less than half the price you quote. amzn.to/2Eae6wJ

Better yet stay away from all sharp objects. If you did that you wouldn't have stumpy nubs.

I use DMT diamond stones on my knives made of premium super steels. I will not use those on carbon steel like my knives from Solingen Germany knives because diamond is just not good for them plus ceramics can get regular high carbon knife steel knives much sharper