If you keep your stuff on jackstands in the garage they never break

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

Good call! Lol

@michaelbishop242

3 жыл бұрын

I’ve had radius, three link and 4 link. Their is no one size fits all. Build strong hope for the best And don’t wheel your daily driver

@DCX1

2 жыл бұрын

BOOM 💥 got em 🤣🤣🤣

You only have 2 links connecting the axle to your vehicle. That’s more force on your 2 frame points. Radius arms don’t have as much adjustability of the pinion during suspension travels. They definitely both have ups and downs. If you’re welding that stuff with a harbor freight 110 welder then you have a lot more expensive lessons to learn about fabrication. 3 and 4 links are definitely a step up from radius arm suspension.

If you lose a bracket or link you've either crashed or have a shit fabricator and have bigger issues than "redundancy".

The argument for redundancy is a red herring. You only have one fuel pump, and one ECM, and one transmission, etc etc. There’s many things that are critical, so you just build them right and depend on them. One might even say that a radius arm system has an unnecessary arm that isn’t necessary.

@tomsaywell6126

Ай бұрын

Not to mention the failure modes he's talking about are incredibly rare. To drive in such a way that a properly engineered suspension arm is completely detaching from the axle or chassis would mean you've already broken a hell of a lot of other things

Good food for thought. As someone who's had both radius arms and a three link on the same vehicle, I've got quite a bit of experience with both. The radius arm articulated just fine, but I was running rubber bushings. Those bushings gradually wear over time and in my case the slop that gradually grew in my suspension contributed to death wobble, which in turn started wearing other components like tie rod ends, balljoints, etc. So I went 3 link so I could run Johnny Joints throughout. The lack of redundancy is certainly a concern, but it's worth it to me. Just make sure not to let Cletus weld the mounts with his 110v HF welder! :) Another thing I like is the caster that can be designed into the 3 link system as the suspension cycles. But I agree with you that the radius arm setup gets a bad rep and that's not justified. For me and my rig, though, I'll be sticking with my plans to continue with a 3 link as my tons go in. Keep up the good work!

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

Great points! Yeah I actually have nothing against 3 links when (almost ran one in this truck haha) but this was the best way to title the video to take advantage of the KZread algorithm and have people consider radius arms as a viable option haha. As you said, it all comes down to whether it's done right. Thanks for watching!

@tommyr95

3 жыл бұрын

@@WebWheeler I hear ya, man! Best of luck and keep us updated. :)

@bryanmayes9234

2 жыл бұрын

@@WebWheeler i never heard of you till this video, been watching 3link videos as I'm gonna link this yota instead of leafs lol

@WebWheeler

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you found the channel! Thanks for watching. Every setup has it's pros and cons- I've even seen some amazing leaf spring setups lol good look with your rig!

I think if 3 link is good enough for KOH its good enough for me.

Dang bro! I was just thinking about your Dakota. Glad to see you’re still at it!

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

Hell yeah! The build videos just take me forever to edit haha. I actually got a test drive in last month and will be doing another one tomorrow 👍 I'm going to get some video of it too. Thanks for watching!

As someone planing a sas on my 05 Hilux radius arms are definitely the way I'm going now. Tha ks for the ex event video, keep em coming pls.

@WebWheeler

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching! Good luck with the build 👍

My thought with radius arms is that they will have some sort of binding in them, but that would make it so you did not need a swaybar to prevent body roll. I used them on the front of my scout project as I did not have a good place to mount a swaybar. Running the radius arms also allowed me to use the stock exhaust parts on my 5.3, so I did not have to buy new headers and get crazy with the exhaust, which also allowed me another inch of uptravel so I could get the thing sitting low and still have decent uptravel. I also thought that if I ran the radius arms and learned they sucked, I could reuse most of it and add a third link.

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

Nailed it! I've had mixed luck with radius arms and sway bars- some setups still need sway bars some don't. Both radius arms and 3 links have their applications and pros/cons but there are definitely things radius arms do better like saving space as you mentioned. Thanks for watching! 👍

Use quality suspension system/parts etc and it's a moot point! Plus the fact, full coverage insurance! It pays for everything to be replaced with only a small amount of money for deductible! 3 link is much better than radius arm kit, might as well kept short arms.

I think each set up has it's advantages, but I think 3 link is better during most failures. 3 link has 3 connections on the frame side and axle side, and radius arm only has 2 contacts on the frame. Radius arms have 4 connections on the axle side and this gives it an advantage during an upper control arm failure, but on the radius arm the upper control arms are supported by the lower control arms so if a lower arm fails, the uppers also fail. The upper control arms on a 3 link are tucked up high and would be hard to hit with objects hard enough to cause a failure. Your video brings up the possibility of poor welding causing a failure on upper control arms, but lower control arms are also susceptible to poor welding, so both design's are susceptible to the failure.

Would using spherical bearings help with the binding issues or are they not used because they transfer everything to the frame?

Keep up the work mate

If your axle, crankshaft, camshaft, driveshaft, etc... Breaks what redundancy do you have?

Also, many companies have 3 link factory rear ends. Liberty, 99-04 WJ, nitro etc are Ann trailing arms and upper wishbone with a small ball joint for the upper attachment point.

The radius arms rely on bushing deflection for articulation, no way around that. If you lose the lower control arm mount on the driveshaft side your driveshaft is either going to overextend and fall apart, or donkey punch the tcase off the trans...

@grantmiller5921

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, Pretty much going to get the same catoptric results from a radius arm or three link failure. A lot of broken parts.

Thanks. That was helpful.

Great vido! I agree radius arms are ideal for the majority of build. When i build one ill use them for eases. As for manufacturers the wj used a tiype of 3 link rear suspension thoes thing flex great for stock arms but stuck to replace. Also the last year of the sold axle mustangs use a 3 link. I am actually building a 3 link in my 68 mustang for a gopd do everything car the 3 like is vercital but has its major downfalls.

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching! Good info 👍

The rear suspension on certain year libertys, grand Cherokees, dodge nitros and maybe some others have 2 lower arms and an upper wishbone. And it mounts to the top of the diff with a ball socket

@devinmanderson

3 жыл бұрын

Ya that's a truck arm system chevy used them on c10s for a bit.

Thanks for dropping some knowledge. I am just getting into all this and you just helped me out a lot.

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

No worries man! This video is really meant to have a little fun with the people that hate on radius arms and think 3 links are the best. I mean everything I say in this video reality is both have their pros and cons. Facebook and forums can be great resources but they also have a way of pushing everything as black or white when it's really grey haha. Feel free to ask questions if you have any 👍

Three link rear suspension is good for street cars, but off road you need more beef.

Jeep liberty rear is wishbone 3 link and I agree with you on redundancy but the chance of failure is less on a 3 link because all the links and joints are only seeing tention and compression loads radius arms bind and add bending forces to you brackets, links and rod ends that will never be present in a 3 link

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

Great point and good call on the liberty rear suspension- never looked at those before. Thanks for watching!

@lanehittle7359

3 жыл бұрын

@@WebWheeler more updates plz for when I build my dakota so I know what to do lol

Want to see more of your dakota! There is a place and a reason for all suspension systems in my opinion and I think 3 links are for purpose built crawlers that live on a trailer. I have friends that drive their 3 link jeeps on the street and I think they are nucking futs ! They work well though and are stable on the highway. Hopefully their junk doesn't break

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

More Dakota videos are coming soon! Yeah there's a place for everything and if built right they all tend to work well. Thanks for watching!

Can/Should radius arms be used in the rear? I have seen a lot of front radius set ups but don't recall ever seeing them in the rear. Trailing arms maybe.

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

Yes they can be used in the rear but it's not advisable. It's not a problem for street trucks but if you're planning on doing much rock crawling/hardcore wheeling you'd want to add a suck down winch. That would allow you to pull the body down to the rear axle when necessary. If the rear droops out too much it'll start bucking the body up as the axle tries to drive forward. As long as the radius arms stay pretty flat though, it does work. Trailing arms are usually paired with triangulated upper links like a 4 link because it offers the best performance but the Chevy rear arms I show in the video are a trailing arm/radius arm combo. Thanks for watching!

@tomhubbard353

3 жыл бұрын

@@WebWheeler Nope if I am going to spend the time and money to fab up a suspension, I want to at least try to pick the best type. radius in the front and triangulated 4 link in the rear. Thanks for the info and you have a new subscriber LOL

Great video

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Now if one of your lower links goes the whole thing is also smoke. Would a 4-link not be better from not only the sake of redundancy but also a great or amount of tunability as well as dispersion of force on more points on the frame?

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

Radius arms have a better chance of avoiding the major damage because one side can still hold the rotation, so you just end up with a tire in the bumper or back of the wheel well. Things can still fail big, just less likely than in a 3 links. A 4 link is superior to both in every way haha. All your points are dead on as to why they're better. Only drawback is packaging all the links. Thanks for watching! 👍

@juicebeast

3 жыл бұрын

@@WebWheeler if you lost a bottom link and poked the tire forward or back your driveshaft is gone (oil pan aswell if unlucky)

@Rommer2258

2 жыл бұрын

Most of the time if you can run a radius arm system, you can run a 4 link with an outside Mounted top link, kinda like Thuren's Alien Arms. The radius arm is just easy at the end of the day. You can make a super sweet boxed arm that will live up to anything you throw at it. But having a johnny joint or a Enduro joint allow for slight movement with the top link allowing added flex.

58 Chevys had a upper wishbone three link rear suspension

great info thanks

@WebWheeler

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching 👍

Ford Aerostar rear end is a 3link, mostly. It has g body shuffle when the wheels lock up. It’s fucking terrifying.

If using radius arms what would be the disadvantages of using the ford mounts with the ruff stuff arm kit and saving all that work?

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

Mainly just that the factory ford bushings aren't great for flex and hang down a little low from the axle tube. If I was building a tow rig or overland truck that isn't as much about flex, I would definitely just run those. I will admit I'm biased though- I worked as the designer for ruffstuff for a few years and I designed those brackets you're taking about for them haha. Thanks for watching!

@jeepindave5464

3 жыл бұрын

@@WebWheeler if I ever jump to a front dana 60 on my yj i will probably do just that and use the outboard brackets on the frame to keep the arms parallel. Not much rocks on the east coast.

doesn’t mention anything about anti squat or radius arms unloading on an incline 🙄👎🏼. although on more street driven less hardcore rigs radius arms are the correct choice for the average person.

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe I'll mention that when I make a "why I hate radius arms" video 😜

@boardbysled

3 жыл бұрын

Yup, or the camber change throughout travel.

@dreweddy25

3 жыл бұрын

@@WebWheeler let’s see it! there’s a compelling argument for both sides. especially if you know the forces behind it. now a 3 link/panhard rear 🥴 that takes a special kind of person

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

A radius arm rear takes a special person too 😜

@stephenmusial9292

2 жыл бұрын

@@WebWheeler whats an option for link rear where you have a fuel tank located on one side or the other? been debating a rear 3 link to keep my explorers fuel tank in the factory location(also why I went with an atlas vs a doubler.) what is the best option? I am running 1 tons(1990 f350) and james duff radius arms on my dana 60 I welded wedges on. currently rear is on leafs. better to rework leafs with spring under and chevrolet 64s? or 3 link? radius arm rear(read horror stories but have seen some work well given flat arms.)? 4 link where uppers face rear of vehicle? ( have seen many articles about issues with this style, but some setups work great given the changing pinion angle.) I would appreciate the input.

Whatever happened to the Dana 60 Dakota ?? Did I miss something or did you finish it ?

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

Still going! Actually got to take it for a test drive last month and will probably drive it around some more tomorrow to take some videos of it. The build videos just take forever to edit so I snuck this one is haha. Thanks for watching!

@Dallas-Rife-UDX-347-Tennessee

3 жыл бұрын

@@WebWheeler Look forward to seeing it finished . The shop finished my 2001 Ram 1500 Superduty diesel axle swap and lift . It’s a pretty unique ride . I’ve been enjoying it . Seems like I sent you a few pics now that I think about it 🤔🤔

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

Yes you did! That is a really sweet truck. I'm tempted to build something full size next 😎 I'm planning on putting together a video featuring the rigs of the channel v subscribers- would you mind if I show the pictures of your truck?

I agree.

S197 Mustang’s have rear 3 link suspension.

Isuzu Trooper has a factory 3-link in the rear.

@jrcook927

2 жыл бұрын

And the Rodeo/ Axiom has a 4 link in the rear.

Is that true with a trac bar? Maybe 3 link with no trac bar

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah 3 links always need a track bar- without it you can't hold the axle in place side to side.

IROKS came with 3 links from the factory. Your welcome😁

Where are you in this build

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

It's drivable in 2wd- still need to swap transfer cases for 4wd. Other than that it's just gears, bumpers, and paint/body stuff. More build videos coming soon!

Old opel RWD cars have a 3 link suspension setup.

Can Johnny joints be used on radius arms? Why or why not?- conflicting answers when going through google….

@Escape.Idiocracy

2 жыл бұрын

I guess the root to my question is binding…. Radius arms are usually criticized for binding, as you noted in your video you have experienced this as a non issue in regards to flex. With the complete lack of “give” found in Johnny joints- if they were used on all joints either the brackets, bolts or welds would likely be the weak link. This is all greatly debatable, as anyone who has wheeled long enough or hard enough knows with any setup, welds break, brackets rip/bend, stuff happens- something has to go give.

@WebWheeler

2 жыл бұрын

They definitely could and have been used. If I was to build using them I would run them at the axle and run a poly or rubber bushing at the frame. Heims and Johnny joints flex great but on the other hand they don't try to flex back to neutral position. This will cause your radius arm to flop from one side to the other and back as you brake and accelerate. A bushing at the frame will hold everything in a neutral position and resist that flopping. Honestly these metalcloak duroflex joints I'm running are the best option I've found- they flex a ton like a heim or johnny joint but being a rubber bushing, they keep the radius arm tight and in the correct position. Thanks for watching!

@Escape.Idiocracy

2 жыл бұрын

@@WebWheeler thanks for the response- good thoughts. I wasn’t thinking about centering. Great video!

Amen.

And this is why you carry a generator welder in the back

good👍👍

I agree and disagree. If one of the chasis side bushes dies on the radial arm. Your axel is toast. Also very interesting video on lite brite channel with their mega 3 link. The builder there was very confident with their 3 link.

My current wj came with a long arm clayton kit, radius arms, i have has four link and three link rigs i built them al, they rode and flexed better than this clayton, i will be changing itl

Is it the same for a 4 link setup?

@WebWheeler

2 ай бұрын

4 links are superior to both in every way haha

@moejr14

2 ай бұрын

@@WebWheeler so I’m thinking about getting a four link front suspension set up for My jeep Comanche. It is not a triangulated today. Do you think that would be better than radius arms?

@WebWheeler

2 ай бұрын

@@moejr14 If you aren't running hydraulic steering, you don't want a triangulated 4 link in the front. Conventional/mechanical steering will bump steer badly with a triangulated 4 link because the axle cycles straight up and down while the steering travels in an arc (pivots on the pitman arm, axle side steering point is on the passenger side knuckle with crossover steering and as the axle travels up and down, it also shifts sideways.) Better to have a straight 4 link with a panhard bar that matches the length and angle of your steering so bump steer doesn't happen. All that said, radius arm front will do the job in most mild to moderate offroad applications and are quite a bit simpler. Hope that helps!

@moejr14

2 ай бұрын

@@WebWheeler what about rough country radius arm?

It’s been 2 years when is it gonna be done?

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

It's driving now- videos are just way behind. Should have another video up within 2 weeks or so though 👍 if you want a sneak peek or to know what it currently looks like check out my @webwheeler Instagram. thanks for watching!

@abihadperez4579

3 жыл бұрын

@@WebWheeler sounds good can’t wait

Build it right and they don’t break

I'll take a 3 link over 4 link any day, much easier setup very little lost in terms of flex. If your worried about breakage build it right the first time 🤣

if a lower link breaks on either suspension setup your whole day is ruined and probably the majority of the front end is going to need to be rebuilt, doesn't matter what system you have. and let's not forget the radius arm is the least useful as far as a radius vs 3 vs 4 link in suspension tuning. there is a reason you see go fast trucks using 4 links and crawlers using 3 links. not to say a radius arm is bad just that your arguments are bad, specifically when you try and pretend a broken lower arm on a radius arm will be any different to a broken lower arm on a 3 link or 4 link. if you need real word data i broke a front lower link on my jeep Cherokee 4 link setup and the entire axle was trash not to mention other damage that was done as a after effect to that, like my shock bent steering smashed fender. point is opinions are like buttholes everybody has one.

If your vehicle gets to the point your talking about, that means you don't maintain your shit. That goes for any suspension. Just drive and beat the hell outta your stuff until it literally falls apart and being oblivious to all signs of part failures, maybe you should stick to a bicycle. Oooh wait that requires maintenance to perform correctly. Last options, walk, uber, or public transportation. Then you don't need to maintain anything.

Redundancy, you sound like a process engineer 😂 just kidding only saying that , because I know the importance of redundancy , and it's purpose meaning .

@WebWheeler

Жыл бұрын

That's a very insightful comment haha my background is in lean manufacturing/industrial engineering

Been waiting on an update And im months late.

@WebWheeler

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I'm way behind on video editing 😬 hoping to get another video out in the next couple weeks though! If you have Instagram I update that more frequently- I'm @webwheeler there too. Thanks for the interest in the project! 👍

What happened to this guy, he said he was working on putting out more videos then just vanished.

@WebWheeler

2 жыл бұрын

I'm still here! Lots of excuses to give but reality is I just need to be better haha. I'm about 95% done with the next video- should be out before the end of the weekend. After that I will do a quick video on life updates and why I suck at KZread 😜 thanks for checking in! I appreciate it

Nice video but one mans opinion. But sometimes that’s what we can fit.

Radius arms are complete garbage for offroad use. Can't believe anyone is still recommending them.

I wheel harder than you could ever imagine and never seen a 3 link fail proper set up. 3/4 bolts with 1 1/4 heims is pretty hard to break. Stop giving false info. Raduis arms is the worst off-road suspension design possible.

I understand the concept of redundancy. True, with a three link, you don’t have redundancy on the upper link. Remember that with your radius arm setup, you have the front axle located with only two frame mounts. You lose one of them and your axle is gone. You will destroy a lot of parts. If you want redundancy, a true 4 link is what you need. Why do you think stock axles are located with 4 links? Redundancy and liability. Parallel 4 links don’t flex as well as a triangulated 4 link or a 3 link.

How bout we just not let “Cletus” do any fab work or welding on your rig at all. Much less with his 110v welder…

You're arguing redundancy, seriously. How about the lack of setting anti dive/anti lift. How about stop fabricating junk and build you rig so it doesn't break rather then worrying about what happens when it breaks.

@WebWheeler

2 жыл бұрын

If you are concerned about setting anti-dive/lift, figure out how to fit a 4 link. Also, be careful when assuming "if you build it right, nothing can go wrong!" Offroading abuses components. The best fabricator in the world can't prevent components from being defective or breaking. The more redundancy a design has to prevent catastrophe should anything fail, the better.

@basikbiker

Жыл бұрын

The only reason people use a 3 link over 4 link is simply packaging...thats it. 3 or 4 link suspension design is superior as far as geometry and adjustment to get the desired characteristics out of the suspension. Radius arms are simple and work ok. And on I beam desert trucks work great but that's a different application.

Weight on the springs will keep the axle from rotating as bad as your explaining. This is dumb