Different manufacturers use different tones. Schmincke has the regular Paynes Grey that looks more like Neutral Tint (which I believe they also have) and a blue version that is really quite bluish both are very nice and mix well with almost anything, so the color can be adjusted to whatever you need. In a bind or for even more control you could also mix red, yellow and an excess of blue for any number of blacks and greys based on what you have in your composition. It’s basically just neutralizing colors.

@4.1132

10 ай бұрын

Small addendum: Pigments are kinda complicated and the same pigment number can give a whole range of that specific hue based on a bunch of factors that ultimately have to do with chemistry and the optic properties of the chemicals it’s made from, how finely it’s milled etc. Burnt Sienna for example contains anhydrous ferric oxide (it also contains manganese oxide iirc) which gives it that reddish brown color and is also contained in English and Venetian Red, who can all look slightly different depending on the manufacturer. Take that with a grain of salt though as I’m not a specialist. For that there are databases or experts at the specific manufacturer.

@fatimascrying

10 ай бұрын

thank u for this insight!! I barely ever use watercolor, but when I do it's schmincke, and I could definitely tell that the winsor and newton in this video looks very different to the color I'm used to!!

@pennycandyys

9 ай бұрын

Why do you only use Schmincke? Companies make their colours different from each other, so unless you can only get that brand, you’re doing yourself a disservice by sticking only to one. Kim Crick has done lightfastness tests on most of the well-known brands (another reason to use different brands), and she’s also a great resource, among others like Jane Blundell on her blog, to compare colours. :)

@4.1132

9 ай бұрын

@@pennycandyys It’s an example and I literally explained that there’s a difference between manufacturers and chemical properties of pigments 😂😂 Edit: Thanks for the additional resources. I’m sure a lot of people will appreciate it. However, the rest of your comment comes across as quite rude. Why is it any of your concern what other people paint with? Labeling another person’s choice as a disservice to themselves is a huge assumption on your part. Maybe think about your wording next time.

@pennycandyys

9 ай бұрын

@@4.1132 Sorry, I was answering on my phone, and it doesn't tag unless I copy/paste, which is a hassle. My comment was directed at @fatimascrying who said that she only uses Schmincke. I'm not sure why you're laughing at me.

The video, the editing, your calming voice, the small art history lesson- God, I love your channel❤

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

Awww, thanks so much! 🥰

@user-ju9bg5hw3m

10 ай бұрын

すげー

I have Payne’s grey in my little travel watercolor set, instead of black. I didn’t know what it was when I first got it but I quickly realized it was the best color in that set. Besides that I use a whole lot of sienna and pthalo blue anyways. I love it

Thank you for this! I’ve always loved payne’s grey but didn’t realize you could easily mix it to have so much variety. 🎨

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

You’re welcome! There are other ways to mix it easily too without the black! 😊

This is one of the first things I learned as a painter. Never use black or grey out of the tube. Still believe it’s one of the most vital early tips for traditional artists!

I agree with you! But I like doing murky muddy rainy compositions sometimes too 😅

Being picky about these kinda details truly make a good artist imo

Prussian blue, yellow ochre, crimson lake was used to make Payne's grey. (Now use French ultramarine and burnt sienna)

This colour gives a realistic view to the paintings ...😊

I love how you state that Payne's grey doesn't work for you, instead of saying it's wrong to use

You just came up on my feed today. I have learned a lot from you in a short period of time. Thank you!

I learned about the French Ultramarine and Burnt Sienna mix about a year ago from another artist. Loved it from the start! I don't have black on my palette at all, so this was a good addition. Mixed up a little extra for convenience.

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

Yes! I always think paintings have more vitality when blacks and grays are mixed from other colours on the palette. 😊

I have no intention to paint, but I'm lounging and this video is such a soft vibe.

Wow. Your video has given me so much to do w my WC. Thank you❤. Plus I’m following. 😊

Can you make a video where you show us your pencil case ?❤ (i love your videos)

Thanks a ton Leslie, I needed this tip❤❤❤❤❤❤😊😊😊

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

My pleasure!!😊

I just bought indigo bc they are all black! Thanks for telling us how. To make it. ❤

Love love love this channel ❤😍🥹

Thank you I love Payne's gray but I always run out or get picky about the shade, I couldn't gigure out the color theory of how to mix it

What are the other 4 small pan colors in this wee tiny palette, please? (& it looks to be the size of a mini Altoids tin?) I love the 4 littles and 2 big pans! I can imagine the burnt sienna and Fr. ultramarine getting used a lot to make a range of shadows!

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

I have cad free yellow and cad free red, but I’ll be changing those (don’t like them). Also, yellow ochre and phthalo blue. 😊

Huh, I havent painted traditionally in years, but when I painted with watercolor I LOVED to combine the phthalo blue and ultramarine with burnt sienna. It was my favorite. I had no idea it had a name!

I have always just mixed whatever paints are left on my pallet together and it almost always makes a nice grey

@mydogeatspuke

10 ай бұрын

That's what you're "supposed to" do, assuming you've employed a modicum of colour theory whilst painting. Otherwise you'll get mud rather than a nice grey. The best grey compliments your piece by using colours you've already used, but neutralised. A set mix regardless of what's on your page can be really jarring and even completely ruin a piece depending on what you've used before adding it.

If it’s on my pallet I’ll use it …. Paynes Grey is fine. Each company has its own formulation for it. And I particularly like Lunar Black, Tourmaline, etc, etc. (Sometimes I want my Blacks, black and my Grey a true neutral.) It’s all good. Mix away !

Everyone else talking abt the colour. Me: wilLIAM PAYNE 😭😭😭♥♥♥

I have at least 4 versions of Paynes Grey from different manufacturers. I love it.

i actually mix colors with paynes grey and it gives me a similar enough result, thoe the mix youve done yourself is lovely and much more vibrant

Wow you know your paint history!!! This was fascinating

Daniel Smith has a convince color: Jane's Gray, which was made with Jane Blundell that is an ultramarine and burnt sienna mix without black pigment. I have a tube, and have it on my big pallet , but I also have ultramarine and burnt sienna on that one, so it's not specifically needed, as you can mix it like you show in the video.

Quinacridone colors were developed for their lightfastness for the auto industry. Phthalos too have good light resistance. I like paynes grey but usually mix just because i like mixing.

Thanks Leslie . Great tip... 👍💕

I've been mixing burnt sienna and ultramarine for a while now because I don't have a black watercolor in my set, didn't know it was an actual thing! Funky

Wow!! Each color has a history! I appreciate your video. So interesting. I like my color palette more now👍

I don't use paynes grey at all anymore, despite it holding a special spot in my heart, because I found my own mix! I love love love mixing a bright red like the pyrrole red light from QoR with a phthalo blue (usually also the GS from QoR). It gives me rusty reds, moody blues and gorgeous slightly granulating greys. This mix is almost a guarantee to be included in my finest paintings. It makes for calming backgrounds with slight variation and texture throughout, it deepens shadows without taking away vibrancy and makes value studies so much more fun!

I don't agree. My Roman Szmal Payne's Grey is so gorgeous, I can't stop using it! But then again, I use PG mostly for monochrome paintings. In mixing it is just too tricky imo, and the black is like having trigger-happy gouache in ur palette, ready to blot out the sun in your drawings!

Thx so much, so useful!!

Where did you get that tiny paint tin??

I usually use the grey as black haha

Payne's gray was originally a chromatic gray. I oughta try the original formula of Prussian blue, yellow ochre, and crimson more one of these days.

Thank you very much for this information and color history. I am new to watercolors as an adult.

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

Best of luck! How exciting. 😊

❤❤

I haven’t ever tried to mix my own- I will though- I love to do comparisons like this. Daniel Smith Payne’s Gray is one of my favorite colors, so I’m interested to see if I can create a color I like as well or better! My tube has a tiny bit left- it’s on my reorder list…. We’ll see!

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

I don’t think I’ve tried theirs, though it does contain black, which can make adding it to other colours a bit muddy. Some manufacturers make a version without black, which is interesting.

@DietDrPepper57877

10 ай бұрын

​@@LeslieStrozyou said winsor and newton uses phthalo blue but one of the pigments is pb29 which is ultramarine blue

@mydogeatspuke

10 ай бұрын

​@@LeslieStrozblack pigments don't make mixes muddy. Mixing warm and cool pigments makes muddy mixes. Black pigments make flat mixes. They take away all the natural luminosity you get from painting with watercolour.

@mydogeatspuke

10 ай бұрын

​@@DietDrPepper57877she also said that phthalo blue and quin violet aren't that lightfast. She's not got a clue what she's on about lol

@DietDrPepper57877

10 ай бұрын

@@mydogeatspuke I just realized that the professional uses pb15 which I think she said was phthalo blue, I was talking about the cotman one because it's the one I have and the cotman uses pb29 which is ultramarine blue

Just wondering why you haven’t replaced the Crimson Lake?

Dear Leslie, thanks for all the Information. It is ever so intressting. I wish you a very nice weekend greetings Christiane 😊❤

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

You too! 😊

I believe Paynes Grey is a neutral tint which is neither warm nor cool. I like cool Grey so I could either mix vandyke and a lot of ultramarine or I can just add ultramarine on the Paynes Grey.

I just recently discovered paynes-grey and it is absolutely my favorite. Thank you for this tutorial because now I know how to make it myself!😮

Hi Leslie 👋🏼. You mentioned that W&N‘s current Payne’s Grey is not lightfast. I thought that PB15, PBk6 and PV19 are all lightfast? Have I misunderstood the ratings?

@21kittensArtStudio

10 ай бұрын

My W&N Cotman tube of Payne's Grey says it has a Lightfastness of 2; with 1 being the most and 4 being the least. Hope that helps!

@awatercolourist

10 ай бұрын

@@21kittensArtStudio Thanks!

@mydogeatspuke

10 ай бұрын

You haven't misunderstood. She has.

@DietDrPepper57877

10 ай бұрын

​@@21kittensArtStudioI have paynes gray in cotman and it just looks black, why is hers a nice blue?

what brand ultramarine / burnt sienna?

Not a fan of black at all, and wish they would stop putting it in paint sets. I have a whole bunch of black tubes and pans that I will never use. This is a complete waste of money, and it cheats me out of other colors that could have been included. I really resent this color. Thanks for posting this short. 🍃

Thanks for explaining! I had difficulties with this colors, but this helps so much, thank you!!

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

Happy to help!! ❤

This is why modern watercolourists use neutral tint. It is a dark grey from a mix of pigments, which gives a base natural grey that is easy to push one way. And saves you time and paint mixing that same grey.

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

Also, many use both. Personally, I avoid them both. Neutral tint also uses black and often doesn’t have excellent lightfastness.

@watercolourmark

10 ай бұрын

@@LeslieStroz - Most pre-made neutral tints use black. But I have never seen one without excellent lightfastness. To say 'often doesn't have good lightfastness' is incorrect. You'd have to seriously go out of your way to mix 3 artist grade pigments and get poor lightfastness. You can also make your own neutral tint without black, but I guess it wouldn't be too neutral - which is kinda the point of it.

@mydogeatspuke

10 ай бұрын

​@@watercolourmarkit could be perfectly neutral if you have an idea about colour theory. I completely agree that she's talking nonsense she doesn't understand though.

@watercolourmark

10 ай бұрын

​@@mydogeatspuke - The point she makes implies inkjet printers don't work! And it is wise to tell others not to use a black in watercolour for shadows, as shadows are rarely black, and more so if the watercolour is weak and washy. But with a nice neutral tint you can push it anywhere with 3 solid primary colours; one pimary reduces the other two colours in the mix. Additive colour mixing of paint pigments.

@mydogeatspuke

10 ай бұрын

@@watercolourmark as I said, colour theory. It's completely possible to make a neutral without using black. But you said it wouldn't be too neutral without black lol. Seems like everyone is typing nonsense lately. You'd also need 6 primaries, not 3, unless you wanted mud. But since you've already demonstrated that you aren't aware of colour theory, there's not much sense in me trying to explain it. Watercolour is not like an inkjet printer.

Im not sure. The fiest painting, the outline of the house stood out in great contrast to the red, which I liked.

What a cute mini paintbox. I love the added sponge. I have an original Bijou box with a different setup…I’m def adding a sponge 👍

I'm Brazilian, I love your channel. I recently started painting with watercolors, you inspire me!❤

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

I’m so glad! 😊

Thanks for your guidance

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

My pleasure! ❤

😑 I wish I had seen this video sooner. I bought a new tube of W&N Payne's Grey last week, as I ran out of it. I absolutely adore Payne's Grey. Thank you for opening my eyes 💙🖤

If it didn't come in the " set " palette then I don't own paynes grey. And there are many brands that I have bought just single tubes...so I might own one..somewhere,..probably got kicked out of palette anyway. 😊

Your drawing is soooooo good! How! Tell me❤😊!

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

Thanks so much! I have drawing tutorials on here (livestream replays) and also on my Patreon. 😊

What i wanna know is how did this dude invent a whole colour? Im probably being stupid here, but i genuinely want to know

I accidentally discovered the self mixed version because I got a travel pallet that didn't have a gray. It is a very vibrant way to get the darker shades.

@mydogeatspuke

10 ай бұрын

You can mix any colour with its opposite on the colour wheel to get a grey. It's called neutralising the pigments. Wild that people don't know these things.

Me, whose last name is Payne but otherwise has zero connection to this colour: ):

I dont know if i wrong but to much blue make it look like indigo , a little blue make it look like payne grey bluish schmincke … i think payne grey should look like transparant black grey color with slight blue

In my art class I was told that a good artist barely ever uses black

and you are the modern Bob Ross 👍🏻 no but seriously, thanks for the explanation

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

My pleasure! 😊

Ultramarine and burnt sienna is often called Jane's grey. I haven't looked in a long time but Daniel Smith used to have this in a premixed tube labeled Janes Grey. Mixing it yourself is better in my opinion, the mix has such a great range.

@mydogeatspuke

10 ай бұрын

No, the Daniel Smith tube of those two pigments in a mix is called Jane's Grey. The mix isn't. Lol. Jane Blundell didn't invent mixing two pigments. Honestly, this whole comment section is a nightmare of misinformation.

@judovii

10 ай бұрын

@@mydogeatspuke much of the professional art community refers to the mixture as Jane's grey and knowing the reference allows newer artists to easily reference what the mix contains. Nothing that I said was misinformation, you might want to chill with the elitism.

@mydogeatspuke

10 ай бұрын

@@judovii no they don't lol. Hahahaha. Elitism. Crying out loud.

@judovii

10 ай бұрын

@@mydogeatspuke Im sure the petulant individual trolling comments in a supportive art community would know plenty of professional artists. Get a better hobby.

@mydogeatspuke

10 ай бұрын

@@judovii I'm not trolling. Everything I have said is factually accurate and easily verified. You're welcome to support each other in being wrong, it doesn't impact me at all. But there are people who prefer knowing the facts and that's what I'm offering. This isn't a private conversation between you and I, anyone could stumble upon your misinformation and take it at face value. I'm just making sure they know that you're wrong. Because you are.

Thaaaaaank you so much Leslie it's my favorite color 😳😳😳😳😜🙏🙏🙏🤣🤣 And bises of course 😁😘

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

It’s such a lovely colour, but check the pigments of the ones you use. Some don’t have very good lightfastness! 😳

@-MEL16-A.O.C

10 ай бұрын

@@LeslieStroz thank you for the advice, I' ve just finished a windsor and newton and honestly I will try your tip to do one 😉 may I ask you which one is your favorite 😁🤷‍♀️

W&N Payne's Grey is very lightfast. It is a great practice to mix it yourself, but let's not spread false information

What palette is that?? It's so cute 😍 I need it

😮❤😊

I also like your picture very much😊 Christiane ❤️

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

Thanks, Christiane! ❤

I have Payne's Grey in my watercolor palette but I don’t really like it😅 I feel like it's not vibrent enough or to tern but now I know thanks to you that it was not only my impression

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

The black in it tends to make it a bit dull.

I have the w&n cotman 48 set. I have 2 payne’s gray pans and 1 is much more blue than the other even though the pigment codes are the exact same. PBk7, PB29 & PB15. I’ve only been using that more blue pan but I love the look of your mixture. I do have burnt sienna PR101 but I don’t have French ultramarine just the ultramarine PB29. Will that work?

@mydogeatspuke

10 ай бұрын

PB29 is PB29. The only difference between brands is that some are more finely ground. Any PB29 will work for the mix as the hue is universal. Also names of paints are pretty useless since lots of brands call the same pigments by different names.

teehee the rule of watercolor is "avoid black pigment and white pigment"

@LeslieStroz

10 ай бұрын

Yes, definitely! 😊

@UJB123

9 ай бұрын

It’s a rule made up by mediocre art teachers …. Kinda like coloring within the lines. There are no rules in Art. I use the black & white all the time.

So do you mix enough blue and sienna to fill a pan? Or do you put two pans of ultramarine blue? It uses a lot of ultramarine blue and now adays paint tubes are similar price but in the days of olden, not so much.

This was the sign I needed to stop buying colors I could have just easily mixed. One of which was payne's grey.

hi Leslie! what are the colors in the mini tin you use in this video?

Amazing haul ❤ instead of using plastic bottles and replacing you can buy steel bottles instead 😇

You know this dudes british, inventing a bunch of greys for landscape painting more than just hints at anglotism

No wonder why his name is payne, he can feel the pain of that roast

I discovered it after buying it.... everyone was saying that it was a must have in my palette, but now it just sits there unused....

Since when do phthalo blue, carbon black and quin violet not have good lightfastness? Absolute nonsense. The reason a Payne's grey with black in it isn't great is because black pigments dull the mix and make it look flat.