BIG DISCLAIMER: I am NOT trashing on the characters themselves, I love them all ofc ha ha ha ha ha 😏 I’m simply pointing out their lack of notability and usefulness as opposed to other 4 stars, and WHY it isn’t actually a bad thing. also editing glitch at 4:03 - that thumbnail is from my video, not sevy’s , idk how that swapped WATCH ME LIVE: twitch.tv/dragonflymarcus

@vinny8589

Жыл бұрын

Let me ask in your opinion WHAT would NEED to be done to improve Collei based on her Constellations and kit? What part of her kit NEEDS the Most help ? And is there any weapons or gear that can offset at least a portion of those problems?

@ark_ing_982

Жыл бұрын

Wow is xinya that -crappy- to be forgotten or to be mentioned as a week character.

@jawcrusher2229

Жыл бұрын

The convo of power creep needs to be discussed more. I hear many ppl say thats it's bad and they don't want it. The reality is power creep affect genshin impact very differently. This is an even based game. That has daily commissions. That's literally 80% of the games content the other is exploration which intertwined with the above mentioned. 10% is for the actually story and fillers 10% is the abyss and grinding levels,domain bosses. Etc. I say all of this to show that powercreep will only affect a very small portion of the game and its player based. You don't need strong 4star characters to explore the openworld or compete dailies The game has multiple events that majority of the time you get pre-built 4/5star chars. Along with some kind of buffing mechanic. Which eliminate the need for your well- built/POWERCREEP characters. Orrrr the event isn't about combat and doesn't even require characters, plants, boat or puzzles etc. The only place u truly get to use your well built/POWECREEP characters is the abyss which last for about 20mins to 30mins every two weeks. . . This is a PVE realm not PVP which means if u complete the floors in 2secs or 2mins you aren't gaining any real advantage over anyone. The downside to the game getting powercreep characters is that, it's a casual single player game that is very easy and having strong units would only make the game even more easier and we breeze through the "DIFFICULTY " content faster. Which hoyoverse don't want. U can simply compare a whale to a f2p if u want to see what powercreep does to genshin. . . This has always been in the game and nothing has changed . . Because genshin is an event based exploration game . . . Stronger units and weapons barely affect the the overall gameplay in my opinion. I'd like to hear more ppl talking about this.

@thejamesonthestreet

Жыл бұрын

@@jawcrusher2229 I agree. There are games where power creep matter, but Genshin is not one.

@braddl9442

Жыл бұрын

Collei has range, Her E Skill and Charge shot allow you do do DENDRO from range. Usingher E Skill with a Sac Bow or using a Gamblers artifact set actually makes her able to apply a tone of dendro. And from range and can hit a ton of people. I think people need to start looking at how character play and move sets and range etc a lot more. I actually ended up favoring Collie over DMC in a lot of comps with a sac bow.

I think Collei was designed primarily the way Amber is designed, more focused on exploration rather than combat capabilities (make sense lore wise because she looks up to Amber and share similarly designed kits). That being said the biggest upside Collei has compared to Dendro MC is how better her E utility is with her A1 passive. You have atleast 2 Dendro application upon her E + 3 more Dendro Application upon triggering A1. Yeah its 12s CD but the amount of Dendro Application, but your usually filling in that time with a consistent rotation.

@roblikesmusic9476

Жыл бұрын

Her E can miss if enemies are knocked on the ground, and her A1 has the range of Barbara's E.

@F1ll1nTh3Blanks

Жыл бұрын

Collei honestly still fine because she has decent uptime on her burst. I don't really know how to fix her E but maybe if it could home in enemies that could fix it. For Amber, I think her baron bunnies just need bigger AOE/burning pyro application on them and maybe more uptime on her burst, idk.

@Ang3LofSp4rK

Жыл бұрын

Actually, including the A1 - it's 12s CD but only 6s of downtime -- which is actually less downtime than Dendro MC. So your suggestion's good either way. And when you throw C2 into that, it becomes 3s of downtime. Not to mention that Collei's Burst cost is 60, as opposed to MC's 80, so her Burst is easier to keep charged.

@sbmonkeyz7216

Жыл бұрын

using a sacrificial bow solves the issue

@K-Sha1

Жыл бұрын

Another overlooked strength of Collei over DMC is the fact that when in Burgeon teams sometimes you have to be careful with application because you might detonate DMC's burst and ruin her rotation. Collei's application can't be killed this way.

I think they want to be Nahida the real true dendro pick, and then Collei was just a free-given for people to wander and activate dendro element during the launch of Sumeru.This is the use i made of her personnally

@Gadottinho

Жыл бұрын

She's also bow user which makes doing the puzzles easier

@milantarika7219

Жыл бұрын

I agree, also I think collei might be somekind of experimental character since it looks like mihoyo plans to release a lot more dendro chara in the future

Most of Sayu's design is geared towards Overworld Exploration (which is like most of what we do in genshin regional content), as she offers role-consolidation for stuff such as Anemo resonance, Stamina-less horizontal travelling, Ore-breaking, and Critter catching. It is then understandable that she is lacking performance in actual combat scenarios. So IMHO, comparing her to characters actually geared towards combat and treating her as "bad" is just really unfair to her. She offers a lot of QoL to a bunch of contents other than Abyss Impact

@hatooniewoomy

Жыл бұрын

Agreed, she isn't bad at all, her purpose is just not in abyss lol.

@dragonflymarcus

Жыл бұрын

Agreege, it’s just that in this case I had to compare her with abyss topics, cause that’s most of the content on my channel Still tho, for overworld stuff, Sayu is really nice!

@defenestratedone

Жыл бұрын

for a similar reason I stopped investing in dendro traveler and just stuck with a halfway decent collei build. Collei is very convenient for sumeru puzzles and provides enough dendro to get by for now. Don't really want to invest in the traveler just to probably drop him again for kusanali.

@harorudo0816

Жыл бұрын

@@defenestratedone still worth it cus Lumine is cute and she'll become OP once she gets all elements

@PootNewt

Жыл бұрын

I use her as my shatter team driver rn geared with full Guilded Dreams EM (I went 2WT 2VV before GD was available) and play her on abyss up until I have to deal with a boss because they can't be frozen so ye 🤷‍♂️

I imagine that one of the reasons why the devs didn't make Collei that good is because they did not want Collei to be a deterrent from wishing on Kusanali in the future. If Collei is too good, then people will skip Kusanali. An example of this is Sucrose and Venti. I guarantee that several people have skipped Venti due to the fact that they own Sucrose. Both are very good don't get me wrong, but Sucrose is a 4 star, which is easier to get.

@wyattb20

Жыл бұрын

Same but I skipped kazuha because I already had sucrose and I had got yelan.

@combatmedic3318

Жыл бұрын

You hit this one right on the head. I skipped venti his second rerun bc I had sucrose and didn’t think I needed him.

@TYR1139

Жыл бұрын

I honestly doubt that... I really don't think a decent Collei would have made everyone skip on an ARCHON of all things, which by know are know to be broken regardless of the other characters. Unlike something like Kazuha/Sucrose we all learned our lesson by now... Actually nevermind, Mihoyo killed the end game

@veeistiredasf

Жыл бұрын

@@TYR1139 yeah, i would pull on Nahida regardless of how good Collei would've been. They could've made her cracked but archons always have some special abilities/stuff that makes them stand out (among the 5 stars from any of the regions, Ei, Zgongli + Venti always have stood out to me the most idk). Also, Nahida's leaks about her burst and skill proved that because (to me) she currently has the most unique skill and burst. SO I would've pulled either way lmao.

@Grim_Bud

Жыл бұрын

@@combatmedic3318 I had Sucrose for 2 years, pulled Venti this banner because of me being a lazy fuck and actually getting a good CC for once. My reason to not pull Venti until now was because I didn't needed CC at the time and didn't have characters that could attack sucked enemies. Also there are times when 4stars are a pain to snipe, wanted Candace but didn't mind getting Venti so I ended up with him but no Candace. ( pulled Kukis and Sayus which I didn't have so all good) C0 Rosaria after 2 years and 150+ wishes, sometime they don't want to come.

Having a tone of fun with Thomas since 3.0, he makes burgeon pretty good and consistent

@unrelentingduress

Жыл бұрын

What team you using. I'm doing yelan Dori collei thoma because..... Fk the meta

@Icegaze039

Жыл бұрын

@@unrelentingduress Fuck the meta is the spirit haha, I'm using Kokomi , Traveler, Thomas and I'm still trying to figure out the 4th slot

@godlotus8329

Жыл бұрын

its still not that good

@Icegaze039

Жыл бұрын

@@godlotus8329 No one said it was meta.

@godlotus8329

Жыл бұрын

@@Icegaze039 did I say its meta?

I really love what Hoyo did with Yun Jin, Gorou and Sara. I mean I wish they didn't make the last two useless until c6, but still. The fact that some of the newer 4* characters are very niche but super strong in that niche is really healthy game design imo. They did some of the newer ones dirty though (Collei, Dori and to a lesser degree Kuki). I cannot see anything good about that whatsoever. All it's doing is flooding the 4* pool with bricked characters, contributing to new player lockout as they will have an even harder time getting constellations on key 4*s like national core, sucrose, fischl, diona etc.

@MagusInfermore

Жыл бұрын

I sort of agree on Yelan but not sure about Yae and Cyno honestly. Yae on the surface looks Fischl-esque but doesn't have her explosive output, degree of Electro application or even energy gen. She even has energy issues herself. If they were trying to make a "better or sidegrade Fischl" it really doesn't look like they tried very hard. Cyno also looks superficially like Razor, but aren't even the same damage type and require completely different builds and team supports. Staying on the field and going ham isn't necessarily a Razor thing either, Itto and Xiao has been doing that for a while now - even Hu Tao and Yoimiya have the same elements though on a shorter duration. Kuki for me has been redeemed more or less with being able to compress the healer role and Hyperbloom trigger into one slot. And since you're looking at mainly reaction dmg, her talent scaling isn't as important (bar healing). Shame with her ult though, but I'll take it.

@smittywababla

Жыл бұрын

@@MagusInfermore somehow I feel like your reply is irrelevant to the point in this comment

@whisperwalkful

Жыл бұрын

Dori was made for cyno (future release) so it makes sense that she isnt good now. Kuki was made pre sumeru too so she wasnt good on release, but with hyperbloom she is good now.

@F1ll1nTh3Blanks

Жыл бұрын

Gorou is fine from C0, just not complete until C6, but even C0, he remains key for mono geo. Sara, Sara for me just lacks uptime on her buff man. I don't care that she just won't heal but the lack of uptime on her buff is real rough.

@F1ll1nTh3Blanks

Жыл бұрын

@@whisperwalkful She is literally fine for every single energy/field hungry hypercarry's and teams, Xiao, Itto, Eula, Beidou etc etc, not just Cyno, the problem is that there are better rounded options for now, despite the compromises. Like for her, she is so ER hungry for her burst which is an issue because her burst is the main battery, like we have fav so like, why do we need Dori.. Similar problem that plagued EMC.

I guess in Collei’s case, she can be a place holder for dendro, for the people who haven’t reached Sumeru yet to get DMC

@harorudo0816

Жыл бұрын

Not really. New players can go to Sumeru after they finish Amber, Kaeya and Lisa tutorials

@kreatur_

Жыл бұрын

But in that case you wouldn't even be able to level her tho since all her mats are in sumeru lol

@darylewalker6862

Жыл бұрын

@@kreatur_, you don’t need to start the Sumeru main storyline to walk to the talent/weapon/Dendro-KFC domains to power Collei up.

@salty_lake

Жыл бұрын

Even if that were the case you wouldn't even be able to get her for free like everyone else

@sorakitr9595

Жыл бұрын

@@salty_lake live stream say you can get a free copy at floor 4 chamber 3 of abyss after 3.0

From my experience Collei is way more comparable to Tighnari for certain hyperbloom teams with short rotations (as opposed to DMC, who inherently creates a long rotation by having long CD) - Kazuha + Fischl + Mona + Collei/Tighnari being a very strong variant from my testing, with perfectly matching CDs on their skills and bursts. I reached very similar times with both Collei and Tighnari (Tighnari being ~5 sec faster on the best runs of either team), even though my Collei is underinvested and only C0. Hence I think people are really sleeping on Collei and deeming her a DMC downgrade because people are just using her in teams that don't really suit her that well.

@masivefort

Жыл бұрын

Tbh general consensus from what I've seen between DMC/Collei is to choose which of the two matches up with your team rotations better. Collei slots easier into short rotation (12s or 15s) teams while DMC slots in better to teams that are closer to 20s rotations.

@timothyjn100

Жыл бұрын

i got c6 collei and am pissed DMC is better

@hashclash6596

Жыл бұрын

@@timothyjn100 why this reply to a comment literally explaining why dmc isn’t better than Collei? I’m using the most bog standard Keqing aggravate team with Fischl and already switched out DMC for Collei because DMC’s cooldowns and range didn’t match the team. No need to be pissed. A hundred dendro showcase videos feature Collei.

@moxigene

Жыл бұрын

@@timothyjn100 sounds like skill issue

@whisperwalkful

Жыл бұрын

Well, collei has some advantages over dmc, like carrying elegy, a cheaper burst. Also cheaper to build since all she needs is to not die. But overall worse than dmc yeah. I'd prefer instructor collei in quicken and gilded dreams dmc in hyperbloom.

as long as new characters offer unique kits, i'm impartial to how "good" they are tbh. i've been playing since release so most of my enjoyment comes from building weird teams and building characters in unconventional ways (dps sayu, dps barbara etc). i'm pretty hype about dori's release since she feels a little more cerebral to play than just the usual "press Q to put a big healing circle down", even if she is less practical than other characters. also i think collei's main purpose was ease of sumeru exploration since she's a free dendro bow and you dont have to get close to dendro-activated objects and wait for her skill cooldown. at least that's why i use her instead of traveler lol also also i love ur videos, you're probably one of my fav genshin creators right now :)

This comment section really helped me figure out why is it that I had problems with my current team setup. People have been saying that Collei is much better for Burgeon teams, while dendro Traveller is much better for teams where the rotation is meant to be much slower. This is something I 100% agree on, since I've been playing with Thoma ever since I got a decent GD 4pc, and the times I was playing him with Xingqiu/Collei worked 10 times better than the other version I made with Tartaglia/Yin. The rotation with Collei is just much smoother and I don't have to bite my nail thinking about not blowing up Yin's burst.

Honestly for an honorable mention I wanna point out Yun Jin & Gorou those 2 4*s went from being completely obsolete to being meta defying characters. Nobody knew that yun jin was a NA exclusive buffer until they paired her with yoimiya , eula , or ayato and she’s literally on par with a well invested benny for certain team comps. Then gorou made geo a staple for a mono geo team considering he buffs the living hell for itto I’m hoping we get a CA buffer for xiao one day

I really wonder if in the future we're gonna have better 4 stars than xingqiu sucrose, Fischl or Xianling. After so much time, only heizou and yun Jin are a completion for these guys

@ogcipher4967

Жыл бұрын

we won't, they perfected the money making method and I don't see it changing

@Eramor

Жыл бұрын

I really hope they add a 4 star that can apply cryo just as much as xingqiu xiangling

@naboume466

Жыл бұрын

they would not and honestly they should not, those 4 stars were a mistake and they are the main reason why most new 4 stars "seem bad" because they can't compare to them.

@usagi8561

Жыл бұрын

Rosaria is also good I think

@ogcipher4967

Жыл бұрын

@@naboume466 nah they weren't a mistake, what the put out after was a mistake

I really like the unique character designs they are taking even if these characters dont produce the biggest numbers. Iam personally playing since launch and 36 star'd the abyss completely after i think the 2nd or 3rd rotation and ever since. Nowadays iam leveling every character to 80 or 90 with usually ?/8/8 levels in their talents depending on what they need just because i like to play off meta characters whenever i feel like it since iam not pressured to go with the best. In this situation at least i completely fell in love with collei , dori and characters like gorou and yunjin because their unique and niche playstyles , even though they might useable in less teams, make those teams completely different from any other team in the game. they distance themselves even more than alot of 5 stars do by their animations and playstyle which i personally incredibly enjoy. This would be my take on a vets perspective on these characters. If youre a vet why would you complain on weaker characters? youve all the good ones build already anyways so nobody forces you to go with the next best thing?

@christinahan556

Жыл бұрын

A fellow vet player!! ❤ I'm also a big fan of character designs, and I love their lore so the meta and a character's role on a team doesn't really bother me cuz I have really weird "teams" for friendship 😂

@Riwul

Жыл бұрын

@@christinahan556 completely agree. I've some Mets teams for abyss but my current team is Kokomi/rosaria/Dori/collei because those are 4 of the last 8 of my non friendship lvl 10 characters. Last one going to be keqing/yunjin/alloy/xinyan. So that's going to be fun xD at least all build already.

@Snappukingu

Жыл бұрын

True, as a veteran player i build almost all characters i have because i want more variety and challenges. Killing faster with meta characters isnt always fun.

I'm prolly gonna get clowned for this, but I absolutely love collei's play style. Mostly cause of the boomerang but I digress. I find she works super well in very close range hyperbloom and aggravate teams. One of my favorites to play recently is Xingqiu, Heizou, Collei, and Kuki. Idk why but it just alot of fun and the damage isn't half bad. Mind that I do have a c3 collei so I have the new passive from c2 that makes that whole hyperbloom team possible. But im ranting at this point, Collei is fun and adorable, that's enough a reason for me to play her (my dumbass forgot that c2 gave the upgrade, not c3)

@MG-ze7gn

Жыл бұрын

I use her with Yae Miko and if you use her boomerang, it will hit shielded hilichurls from behind, and do damage!

@moxigene

Жыл бұрын

same. I use her more often with my aggrevate keqing than my dendro MC (which is c3 and lvl 90 as oppose to my lvl 70 c0 collei).

@doug3454

Жыл бұрын

Nah, you shouldn't get. I prefer her in Keqing Aggravate due to better rotations (and you really don't need insane Dendro application for Aggravate to work anyway; better application would just be able to trigger more Spreads for more personal damage) and she is also indeed more fun to play for me because of the boomerang, while DMC has that (to me) boring skill like Kaeya's and Bennett's press version. Just as one neat example of its use, I tried her against Hydro cube and just her skill can immediately take out 2 of the 3 final droplets (cast skill at 1 of them and run behind another).

@LuminousSpace

Жыл бұрын

new dendro team is good for aggravate at least for me, but in hyperbloom case, hyperbloom really not work that well..... need better dendro uptime

@F1ll1nTh3Blanks

Жыл бұрын

I mean I like the concept, execution could do with a lot of work though imo.

🌸🌹It bothers me not that four star have become rather niche as I but ascertain every character to release and enjoy finding new way by which to wield my comps before the Abyss🌹🌸

Collei is better on burgeon, traveler's lotus can accidentally explode if you mess up your rotation. Both are interchangeable and in some cases using them together is better because they can equip the best 5 star support weapons together.

@Deepstab1

Жыл бұрын

Just hit the travelers flower with hydro and it wont explode

@m.1sha

Жыл бұрын

@@Deepstab1 but what about burning reaction doe

Tbh, i feel like DMC and Collei were designed in a heavy parallel. Both have EM buffs somewhere in their kit, both obviously have off-field Dendro, and bothhave generally inconsequential stats in a lot of teams besides ER and maybe some EM/Crit if you happen upon it. The difference is, Collei is made for faster and more flexible rotations by having a shorter Burst Cost and CD (I assume this design would fit Burning and Quicken teams) while DMC is made to spend a ton of time off-field (heavier Cost and CD) while everyone else is more active in the fight or triggering reactions (likely to fit with Bloom, Hyperbloom, Burgeon, and the other less "swappy" versions of Quicken teams.). Obviously, this would place Collei at a disadvantage due to being made for one generally subpar reaction, as well as the reaction that DMC was also made to work in. Though, i personally feel that she does good enough regardless. Not all Dendro team may be quickswap friendly, but Collei kills it in the ones that are. As for Dori, i feel like she was made with similar philosophy to Diona, but with the more modern 4* style of balancing. Diona had Shielding, Battery, and Healing while Dori has Healing, Battery, and Electro application. Each of Dori's focuses was given a limitation or another, so that she wound up being "decent" at all of them. Her battery and Healing is only for onfield units, and her Electro application can be tricky to use at times (added with her kit not having built in EM scaling, her reaction builds wouldn't be as smooth as Kuki's by default.) This kind of pushes her towards units like Eula, Xiao, Ayato, and other onfield units that typically have to either build ER or run a battery in their teams. In a way, this kind of makes her a parallel to Kuki as well. While she may not be as comfortable, she does offer a more intense form of battery and she is more built towards supporting a hypercarry with longer field time (though Kuki can do this as well).

@dearikj90

Жыл бұрын

This. Collei is clearly designed to be more effective in Quicken/Spread/Aggravate teams that require very little Dendro application (Quicken lasts a long time unattended). Her burst cost is only 60 and the cooldown is 15 seconds which aligns much better with quick swap burst-focused teams. Dendro Traveler requires 230+ ER and Favonius or Sacrificial Sword to have any chance at 100% uptime. His/her burst lasts longer and has a larger AoE which makes him/her the ideal Dendro support for Bloom-focused teams. However the high cost and longer 20 second cooldown of their burst make them worse than Collei for Quicken/Aggravate/Spread teams. Hoyoverse is designing more and more of their characters around specific playstyles instead of making all-rounders. Kuki Shinobu, for example, is tailor-made to be the heart of Hyperbloom teams specifically. She can serve in other teams but it's obvious what Hoyoverse intended for her now that Sumeru is available. Collei is no different. She caters to Quicken teams more than anything else.

@Jeremy-ul4ph

Жыл бұрын

but hyperbloom kuki is just so fun

@dearikj90

Жыл бұрын

@@Jeremy-ul4ph Yes. Yes she is. She's made for it.

Dori just makes me wonder if we're gonna get an artifact set that triggers effects when a character gains energy or something like that since she has the highest number of energy gain instances in her kit (i think) aside from raiden shogun(who gains energy with every hit of her burst). Dori's skill gives flat energy and particles which is 2-3(if each of the 2 particle is counted separately) instances and her burst gives like 6 instances of 2.5 energy, for something like 9 instances of energy gain, then toss on a katsuragikiri nagamasa or sac claymore and thats another 3 instances of energy gain...

personally I do believe that Collei's more frontloaded but fast dendro application can still hold some merit above DMC in specific teams

@GoldElias

Жыл бұрын

but her dendro application is slower than DMCs

@toonhub3216

Жыл бұрын

@@GoldElias her two skill hits, initial and First burst hit as well as sprout all apply dendro, that's 5 dendro apps in a short time frame and 8 with C6

@GoldElias

Жыл бұрын

@@toonhub3216 that is if the skill hits twice which it tends not to do as often as youd like but true that does make it a lot of dendro though i'm not sure if there is a good way to take advantage of it

@AssaultRider555

Жыл бұрын

@@GoldElias well, that's what Sacrificial Bow is for.

@christinahan556

Жыл бұрын

I'm sorry, but when y'all said DMC I thought you guys were talking about Devil May Cry 😅😂

if Im not wrong, one time in the abyss there was a debuff that make you unable to generate energy particles, if Genshin explore this mechanic more, characters like Dori or weapons like the craftables ones in Inazuma can probably get a lot of value for their flat energy generation

@arnowisp6244

Жыл бұрын

High tide, Low Tide

@d3m3nt3d_t3acup_

Жыл бұрын

Issue with Dori is she needs a load of energy herself to be able to battery, which is not an issue for units like Fischl

@leoniichan1229

Жыл бұрын

Nah, if it's high tide low tide mechanic you are talking about, even raiden shogun's energy generation didn't worked back then. If the definition of energy generator herself can't work under that condition, what makes you think dori will?

@jeremiahsmith916

Жыл бұрын

I always found the community’s obsession with ER kinda unhealthy. All characters have not only bursts, but normal attacks and skills as well. They’re there to be put to use as well! Using bursts immediately after cooldown was never the intended way to play, and ~200 ER being some kind of “standard” is just ridiculous imo. At this point I get an impression that people don’t play a _character_ , they play _their Q effect_ . Which sucks the life out of the experience

@firdausm3617

Жыл бұрын

@@jeremiahsmith916 act there mechanic in this game call "rotation" and Q up time is important for good rotation..and most meta team line up requier high ER to fuctioning well

for collei, i think she would get better in the future since shes a very good unit to use in double dendro teams (while dmc excels in doing bloom reactions and supporting electro characters to aggravate more than supporting their own dendro cast) as more and more dendro dps characters release, collei would be a very good option to 1. hold the 4p deepwoods set; 2. use dendro resonance (which is pretty broken lol) and 3. provide energy since she does provide a lot of energy with sac bow/fav bow, and if you invest in crit stats you could do some ok damage with collei as well! (seems like normal dps build is best for her) so i hope to see her more in the future being used more and more :D

@flameduel

Жыл бұрын

This is actually what I use her for! I run DMC, Kuki, Mona, and Collei for this exact reason haha

Great video! I enjoyed the explanation a lot!

Thank you! This is a great point and I'm glad to see someone saying it

I have a soft spot for niche supports. I like building them instead of general supports more, because i'm weird or smth idk I really like experimenting mono geo with gorou and ningguang + mc even though i don't have itto, yun jin on my physical dps jean, thoma on my heizou for firebending, i just find those really fun

To me, the new 4-stars seem like experiments Hoyoverse tried out but didn't want to fine-tune after execution because there's no profit in it. But what Hoyoverse started, theorycrafters work to finish. In my mind, theorycrafting isn't just about figuring out "who does more damage" or "who's the most meta". Theorycrafting is about taking a character, analyzing their strengths and shortcomings, and discovering how to maximize their potential, regardless how much or how little of it they have compared to other characters. Personally, I've been theorycrafting for Sayu in particular for the past couple of days now and, frankly, I haven't enjoyed myself with the game this much since Inazuma first came out. I've even found an effective team that wouldn't work without the unique attributes of her kit. Collei is next on my TC list, and I've already got a few ideas. You'd be surprised by the teams you discover when you think outside the box.☺ While I agree that the recent 4-stars have had flaws that shouldn't be as glaring as they are, I don't let that stop me from using, optimizing, and enjoying them in tandem with the more meta characters. They seem weak at first glance, but that just makes finding their most optimal team all the more satisfying.

If Collei has 1000000 fans I'm one of them If Collei has 10 fans I'm one of them If Collei has one fan that's me If Collei has no fans then I'm no longer on earth If the world is against Collei I'm against the world

@hatooniewoomy

Жыл бұрын

Based response

@waylonpark2340

Жыл бұрын

As A Char Or For Kit

@ignatoseg4664

Жыл бұрын

COLLEI'S BACKKKKK

@unrelentingduress

Жыл бұрын

And then the two angels March down to Sumaru and unleashing fire and brimstone and only aether survived. lumine however turned around and looked at the Carnage and turned into a pillar of salt and was placed into salt-terra.

@garde544

Жыл бұрын

@@waylonpark2340 both

I still run Thoma with my Yoimiya since I don’t have Zhongli and I did not pull for him this this rerun on purpose. Thoma is is doing fine at C6. His shield at 38k HP is fine, give 25% pyro resonance, 20% noblesse buff. That’s not bad for a support. And I’m working on a 4* Instructor set for him that could give him even more value in Vaporize teams. But it’s tough to get with appropriate stats.

I have Collei at C5 and she’s really good for me. I even gave her Raven’s Bow, which is pretty nice in Bloom affiliated teams. I have her in Sukokomon, and she’s really good in it

I agree with your take, I just wish hoyo would tune the less used characters a bit cause some has very questionable kit design choices

@xxri

Жыл бұрын

fr some of these kits are just creating problems that are "fixed" with cons, that's not balancing a character it's just bad design

As someone who wanted to use Thoma and leveledl him up, he simply doesn't work without constellations, at least c4. I am a relatively new player who started playing at Yelan's patch and he was a fairly early pull but he's pretty much useless without massive investment into artifacts and cons. Also for really new players, any burst oriented character is terrible because you just don't have the energy to make that character work until much, much later.

I am not worked up with newer 4* if it means neat alternatives to spice things up, especially if you have the Major 4*. Collei? I have been very lucky to have her at C3, it helps with not just damage but also Dendro Application. Dori? She is just hilarious to have and use. I am just happy to have her around until Kuki comes home, her Normal Attacks and Lamp is fun to use.

Energy cost, short cooldowns and can use Elegy is the reason I prepare using Collie compare to DMC, at least for my aggravate comp.

I also noticed they started creating 5 star characters that are intended to replace some of the really really strong 1.0 release 4 stars. Key word is intended. Yae Miko for Fischl. Yelan for Xingqiu. Cyno looks to be a new Razor. Not sure why. Might have to do with the fact that some of them are better than 5 stars or because a lot of people don't see a need to pull if they already have those built idk. Also, I really enjoy your videos. Interesting topics and unique takes.

@cariandi

Жыл бұрын

Do people actually build Razor as an electro dps? I saw Eula as the "5 star Razor" already.

@Cherubim666999

Жыл бұрын

@@cariandi yeah, he can be fun to throw in some teams if the rest are all flashy flashy super fasty stabby lol..guess it matters more if you are the minmax kinda player

@xxx_lolidestroyer69_xxxuwu58

Жыл бұрын

Can't wait for the day they make a replacement for Bennett & Xiangling. Might want to wait for Murata though (i doubt they will make Dehya powerful, knowing how Hoyo works)

@GT-xw7rg

Жыл бұрын

I really don’t get this cyno razor comparison, cyno is far closer to xiao and itto. Razor’s role as a 4 star is the physical carry, so the 5 star razor is Eula more than anyone else.

@raghuvamsi3623

Жыл бұрын

@@GT-xw7rg true, cyno xiao and itto all are hypercarries and I personally prefer these playstyles over the ones with reactions and rotations xD

i loved this video but more importantly that broccolei picture is so amazing

I was already using EM thoma for overload since his pyro application is delayed so he would always trigger the reaction. I did have to work around the ER requirement tho.

first collei is a getting shoved into the spiral abyss as stated in the 3.1 livestream. i dont know if along side xiangling or replacing. for colleis case especially vs the dendro trav, the only thing i can think of is colleis dendro application is like 5-6? times at C2 just on her elemental skill with the downside getting the extra to litrally being right next to the enemys. dendro trav has a burst E hit and then a long lasting burst with consistent dendro application. if you need more application swap application i think collei does better, but dendro trav just covers all the stuff we currently can even do with atm

Totally looking forward to Cyno! I have been sticking with Razor from my early game, but I have no C on him- hoping to grab some along with Cyno.

Unless you're doing the Abyss, you should use whoever you like most. I main Noelle, she's nothing special, but I've mastered her kit and team (Yun Jin, Gorou, and in 3.1 I'll get Albedo too). She's not even C6 and can beat anything except Abyss since I don't have a 2nd team. Her hitting 20k damage at lv8 talents is more than enough to blitz any enemy.

I’ve never really used the “strong” starting 4 stars because their play styles didn’t really intrigue me. They’re reliable and definitely strong but imo they weren’t really fun. Most of them just boil down to press button to win. It definitely makes them effective, but not all that interesting to me. Which is why I preferred to build characters like Thoma over someone like Xiangling, Bennett or Xingqiu.

@teo2805

Жыл бұрын

Ignored Fischl until I got her C6 and at that point she becomes fun. You have to time Oz and the many numbers that Oz procs is just exhilarating. All of the other super supports like Bennet and Xingqiu, I keep using less and less because they're not as fun. I wish Collei was stronger because she's more fun than Dendro MC (dendro MC skill or a boomerang? Slow long lasting dendro field or cute small dendro field?)

@hutao3261

Жыл бұрын

@@teo2805 Fischl was one of the characters I wanted the most before I even started playing and when I was new. I did the Golden Apple Archipelago thing and got her free outfit and did some pulls and bam, I got her. She has been on my main team every since

@grassenjoyer4414

Жыл бұрын

Same, dude. Upgraded Benny, XQ and XL to lvl 70 just for abyss. Feel weird using them in overworld, only used Benny and XQ sometimes depends on the team but XL is a big no no. 80 burst cost, overwhelming damage makes everyone disappear and not very unga bunga friendly lol I'm currently enjoying using each of the first 4 starter characters as dps as they all have their respective teams especially DMC is now a viable dps in overworld (not so sure in abyss but who cares?) I mean, fav sword Ayato for Amber's vaporise and "burst dps and emotional support" Ayaka in Kaeya's team ? What's meta lol.

@barbaradesigns1774

Жыл бұрын

I played Xiangling, Fischl and Beidou a lot at the beggining, cause thats what I got at 1.0, plus Barbara. I still love them so much, but they became the abyss unites and Barbara the overworld main healer, plus Bubble DPS just for fun. Overwolrd I always using the new unities or character that have different playstyle just to make a change. Also, I hating using the ults every fight in overworld, Xiangling pyronado feels so much to just a little job.

@barbaradesigns1774

Жыл бұрын

@@hutao3261 I got her my first day playing at 1.0, she is really good and I'm always nagging my friends to build her. I use her mostly for abyss, cause Oz will kill everything to fast to test new character in the overwold, specially with dendro she's great, but things end to fast when I'm just trying to get used to the new reactions.

Collei is actually a good Dendro Applicator on teams with a very short (15s) rotation (i.e. Keqing Aggrevate featuring Fischl , any Anemo except Kazuha (or do not use Hold E on Kazuha), OR Zhongli OR Kokomi E) but she is limited to only that (maybe Cygno may change the game, but given his kit that may overextend beyond Collei's burst uptime, I doubt it)

Have you tried Dori in Co Op, ber bust generates 4 jinni beams that all do damage and energy recharge and healing. She is so much fun in weekly boss runs and domains that favor using electro characters. Her issue is she only starts working right at C2. As an electro healer she has way more range then Kuki. And if you have her C1 and/or a Sac Sword with decent ER, her burst has almost 100% uptime. She approaches a similar role but from a different direction.

You know what’s hilarious? Every Archon fits both a DPS and Support role, so when the Pyro Archon comes out, she might just do what Bennett does, but as a skill instead of a burst. It’s the most predictable outcome and they would make hella money doing it.

@whisperwalkful

Жыл бұрын

I doubt they'd go anywhere near bennett's busted kit again.

@joshuawilliams4741

Жыл бұрын

@@whisperwalkful We’re talking about Archons though. On top of that, our enemies are only going to get stronger with time. The Pyro Archon being a 5* Bennett is the most logical expectation since Archons are represent their Element, and Pyro resonance increases your ATK stat. Venti = Strongest Swirls/Enabling Flight Zhongli = Strongest Shields Raiden = Strongest Battery

The issue i have with the new people is as a newer player i cant access the items needed to make them better. I have Kuki and loved her look right away then when i went to look for the flowers needed to get her past 20 i found they are not something i can get any time soon. At least with Cyno i can march my butt across the map to pick up bugs lol.

Am a new player, right after this video i was about to check some details about thoma on yt cuz i got him day before yesterday. I just had this feeling i want to spend time playing with him but i was afraid to spend resources on him as uh mentioned. So I've decided just to lvl him up to thirty and help some new players, this way uh wont steal away their fun by one shoting everthing and uh can have fun playing new character. 😁😁

The only recent 4* I use are thoma and sara Burgeon thoma is amazing hope I can use him with dehya or alhaitham I remember being so excited for thoma since I didn’t have zhongli yet and needed a shielded for xiao, glad burgeon gave me a reason to play him after getting zhongli

@cunnyman

Жыл бұрын

Thomato Burger needs C4 and you to build crit and ER on top of EM. Not to mention, his HP is nonexistent so no good shield to tank the explosion of Burger either. “Amazing” with all those caveats is pushing it.

I don't know... maybe I just like Collei but she has a respectable but niche Dendro application (4 sources at most, but the only practical ones are the E, Q, and passive with no overlapping ICD; the last one being the charged which is impractical). I built her Noblesse, for aggravate. While I built Dendro DMC for Deepwood. Overall, I agree with your assessment. Dori's kit was promising, but sadly, I was highly disappointed... I mean they could just have applied Fischl's ICD than removing it... hope they update it. Please, also file a suggestion for it to be updated for have Fischl's ICD. Together with that, a Petra set 4pc update, hope it can work off field since there are sets now that works off field.

As someone that didn't play since the beginning, I recognize the value of the first set of 4* but completing the team took so long that by the time they came they felt very boring I already got used to working around with what I had early game that I'd just go back to the other options like using yanfei instead of xl, ditch the Bennett buffing and invest in Qiqi or get used to xq without a sacrificial sword, finally moving on from Sucrose after figuring out how to use Venti properly in abyss

I don’t think the idea that these characters being weaker benefits newer players really holds up because they require talent materials from trounce domains that have high adventure rank requirements as well as being locked by large quest chains, the process of unlocking the raiden bossfight trounce domain is a fucking journey and a half but it’s the only option for anyone that say, pulls candace and wants to get use out of her, not to mention the new player lockout of all inazuma characters where you can’t get their local specialties and level them beyond level 20

i mean yeah I agree. But theres nothing wrong with releasing 1 broken 4 star unit once a year. I have been so disappointed with all these 4 stars

@arnowisp6244

Жыл бұрын

Vote will your wallet don't pull for the bad 4 stars until a Broken one comes out.

@xxx_lolidestroyer69_xxxuwu58

Жыл бұрын

I'd love it if there is JUST ONE broken 4* from Inazuma and Sumeru each, which doesn't require constellations to function well.

I agree with most of what you said because, you are actually right on most of it. Now, you probably know more than I do regarding dmg and team utility in combat (Idk I just got here bc yt recommended it and it's a topic I want to discuss), but I feel like maybe it's a bit unfair to compare them? You hit the nail right on the head with the statement that older units were more general due to how small the roster of characters was, if Bennet worked specifically for pyro and he peaked his base atk before level 90, he'd have always been considered trash, but people didn't know how he works and probably had yet to figure out artifacts. I feel like these new batches of characters will have their peak when Hoyo releases an artifact set that benefits them more than others (this might make Collei actually worth it). I mean just look at Nilou, she has no artifact set that helps her, and Nahida has yet to release, which makes her look like a bad character and an easy skip until then. I do agree that they should keep characters fitting on specific needs rather than being as general as Bennet and Sucrose are, this way it'll take way longer to powercreep them, we have seen this plenty on other gachas and it's hell to feel it while playing, how you're playing just an inferior version of a SSSSR rarer than getting a perfect shiny on Pokemon because there is no pity on your game.

@rick30521

Жыл бұрын

So TL;DR: Artifacts might make or break some of these characters that sadly feel incomplete or they may fill other roles that have yet to be discovered or have another character that completes them.

collei comes before dendro traveler right? if you where a new player? you get her in spiral abyss no? so you could get her before sumeru?

As a newish player stumbling on this video, I really relate to 6:20. I watch a lot of guide videos saying things like "build these 4 stars!" and it's always bennett fischl sucrose xingqiu but what if you don't have any of those yet? I was thinking that dendro teams just weren't for me cuz I have no electro, but I may consider using dori/lisa after watching this

Idk, Dori’s healing is extremely good & she helps with energy recharge. She’s even more perfect for Eula cuz she helps with her ER (which Eula def needs) along with them triggering Superconduct. Just like how her electro-healing rival Kuki Shinobu has her uses too. Everyone thought she would be bad until Dendro came, now she’s a top support (even sub dps) for Hyperbloom + Aggravate. The new 4 stars aren’t really bad, they’re just not as universal as the earlier 4 stars

@-.Meylin.-

Жыл бұрын

There are just better characters that do way better than her, but if you like her you can use her for sure

@sexyjew1997

Жыл бұрын

Kuki shinobu is better with Eula as the role consolidation is much more fluid compared to Dori. Additionally, Kuki can wield favonius sword, with rosaria wielding favonius lance.

@nationalgeografic7687

Жыл бұрын

@@sexyjew1997 can't dori wirld fav greatsword?

@Jeremy-ul4ph

Жыл бұрын

diona is a miles better battery for eula and she provides shielding, as for procing superconduct there are other 4 stars such as fischl who also provides a lot of damage and also helps in battery, basically the idea of dori is not bad but its just that she doesn't provide nearly as much as other characters in team comps

@salty_lake

Жыл бұрын

Extremely good compared to what? And Kuki's aggravate damage is extremely lackluster since it has an icd, meaning you only get a couple of procs per ult. Please enjoy the characters but don't tell people they are good when sadly they are not.

I feel that with Collei, while she is competing with DMC who everyone has for free, she is not always competing for the support dendro slot as people could be using MC's other elements. For example if I have mono geo with GMC, having collei fill that dendro slot is quite nice, even if she would underperform compared to DMC.

with character like Sayu and Thoma that u mentioned I'm definitely finding them both better and more useful then a Collei or Dori ( which is fine cuz both didn't interest me to wish and collei was free so yeh ) but since 3.0 has made such a downgrade on its 4 stars I'm curious about Candace.. hope she is on a similar level as Thoma.. not just a hydro collei type of weak .. I really want Candace to be better then what 3.0 has shown so far for its 4 stars . I'll probably will C6 her hopefully cuz I'm pulling for cyno anyway

I find myself nodding all the time Very Well thought content

Sayu is a very good healer. Granted, mine is c5 but with only lvl 5 talents, she's 100% better than Jean for Xiao. maybe it's because her healing is more consistent and her AOE can be adjusted. I do wanna point out, alot of characters, not just 4*s, have been scaling off EM recently, from Sayu. probably Mihoyo tryna make dendro better in advance with EM scalings. ALSO, Collie is more made for aggrevate. Not bloom. You don't need LOADS of Dendro for aggrevate like you do for bloom. her 3 second icd is perfect for it and her sprout mechanic basically gives aggrevate 100% uptime. even with selfish units like Cyno or Razor I think it's just a matter of time. Look at Kuki, Yoimiya and Kokomi. were "trash" on release but at new content came out, they became much better as more teams as more ways to use them. Dori may seem trash now but they're has yet to be a character that has not gained from updates at all

If collei had no icd would've been nice Short burst of alot of dendro reactions would've been very fun to play

Razor should have a comeback with Candace's release (not only because they are both featured in 3.1). I was having a head-scratcher thinking about how to use Candace. I mean, Hydro-infused normal attacks are great, but with Childe, Ayato, and Kokomi already in the game, what niche is left for Candace? Then I remembered Razor, a character with high scaling, fast normal attacks also with constant electro application. Throw in Dendro traveler and I think we have a very strong team.

@KrisPBacon69

Жыл бұрын

Razor already has a meta team: thundering furry. It relies on C6 Bennett tho.

@Jeremy-ul4ph

Жыл бұрын

@@KrisPBacon69 its super fun but i dont know about it being meta

@kimkardashi-un2.051

Жыл бұрын

@@Jeremy-ul4ph It is the most effective tactic available for him so yeah

@KrisPBacon69

Жыл бұрын

@@Jeremy-ul4ph It doesn’t compare to the top of the top like national teams, raiden hypercarry, etc. but it’s a huge improvement over his standard teams.

Yup For someone like me who didn't pull for Kuki and didn't get a Kuki off banner, Dori is a godsend Miko incredibly loves Dori's energy regen and electro resonance As well as being incredibly good Nari support

Collei is a very good character, her time will come and shell shine, once Nilou is out, she has a very fast Dendro Application, together with Nilou causing instant blooms, you can cause mass destruction for the duration of Colleis Burst .... plus she buffs EM, however, her flaws are are E Skill, which couldnt have been designed better by actually having not such a weirld flight curve, that can make this attack miss targets and its range could/should be around 25% longer, boomerangs can fly really far, until they return. its CD could also be like 2s shorter to use the skill a bit more frequently. Dori is also an interesting Electro Healer alternative, given that we recently just have only two of them for a realtive short time, she provides the advantage of not having that annoying health sacrifice and she helps as energy battery to characters, that needy every energy they can get to work with best performances without being forced to put too much stats into ER, so that you can put more stats into CR/CD% instead and shes a claymorre, making her more useful against heavy armored/shielded targets, unlike Shinobu, which can hit away at shields forever and doesnt cause a scratch to their durability, while dori destroys them with a few heavy hits, making her the more optimal pick, if you need a electro healer agaisnt heavy guarded enemies. Both Dori n Shinobu are made for the EM meda, because their attacks are basically weak, but their reactions with hyperbloom, overload, e-charge ect. are with that you deal decent good dmg with them, if you have like 500+ EM, my Collei with currently like 620EM deals on field like 13-14k DMG Blooms with every seed, thas with 4 seeds on field within a few seconds 52 to 56k dmg to everything in their explosion range.. now imagine this with Nilou letting her seeds explode instantly under her burst with constantly water aplication every second ...

I think Collei only has 1 role that DMC doesn't fill, that of an Elegy holder for the team.

Collei is better for burn/burgeon teams, since traveler has the problem of his flower blowing up(unless you build for that, but or work around it by applying hydro to it first), otherwise her E is also pretty good for these teams. Also don't forget you can run double dendro for some teams to great effect. Dori has a few good uses, aside from working with Sayu fairly well, she can be a carry with C6, Thundering fury, and an EM build or a DPS build, not top tier, but up there and also fun. New 4 stars have very niche at first until the new 5 stars that come out let them shine. Kuki is an example. This is compared to how 5 stars would be niche till the new 4 stars that supported them came out. Hoyoverse did a nice swap here as you will get the 4 star before the 5 star this way instead of skipping the 5 star and costing them banner sales.

Dori was off my radar until I met one in co-op, and noticed I was getting healed for 8k ticks and getting my burst back incredibly early. Very pleasantly surprised hahaha

Thank you for always having such a neutral view on things, it is really nice to see some patience and understanding than the usual doomposting from players.

I at some point decided, when my exp books and mora started overflowing, that I was going to level my Amber to a point she was useable, coz it's Amber, but since then every time I pull a new character they are raised to 70/80 and at least one talent at lvl8. There is no reason for me to do this but it is nonetheless disappointing when I find that I'm, say, farming arrowheads for hours for Collei only to find my already levelled Traveller is better.

I love playing Sayu! I do have better healers and CC anemo units but I like sayu bc she's unique; as an overworld unit she's great, claymore for mining, her skill for exploring, healer, VV holder, and I like that her circle is huge. I just got her c6 and I'm happy I can switch her build to something more practical than the attack I had on her. Honestly I built her bc I didn't have Jean and now that I do, I still use her bc I don't want to spend a ton of resources building another anemo healer.

I think that a early 4* of a new region is going to be gear as an exploration qol. Amber for Monstadt, sayu for Inazuma etc and now Collei for Sumeru. It’s logical from a marketing standpoint point. The only problem I have right now with Hoyoverse is the sense of fomo they try to install with newer characters. It is a personal theory but since 1.6 with Kazuha or 2.1 with Kokomi, they realised that a character they have build to be « niche », « meh at the beginning » with the idea in mind of the developpement of the game, they get more money when they come back etc. In my mind, Kuki, Yae and Thomas were always designed for de dendro. Now Dori ? Feeling she is designed for a character to come (aka Cyno), Nilou ? Same thing…

@proles8

Жыл бұрын

I think with Kazuha and Kokomi that's more on the community underappreciating them and then going wow and saying they're highly rated pulls If they become good ater, then you can always save primos for a poptential re run and get them later imo

@lebleurenard9526

Жыл бұрын

@@proles8 I still think Hoyoverse don’t do things randomly. Sure for Kazuha it was more of situational problem because did the arrival of Ayaka and Inazuma but later, meh not so sure. You can still pull later, I agree but they count on players being afraid of missing something etc. It’s a gacha after all, they’re here to make money ^^

I run my Collei as a support sub-dps for Tighnari. She triggers Dendro Res, holds Deepwood, does a decent amount of damage herself and has EM sharing at c4. Mine also has Elegy, so she’s a pretty important buffer as a whole for my team. Plus, she doesn’t need rapid application for Quicken teams so that’s no worry.

sayu is nice for exploration the alt sprint, passive , heals ,being a claymore user and also Anemo makes her pretty nice

I play the game in a way that’s more exploration focused. I never really notice if a character is bad or not because I’m very rarely in Spiral Abyss or aiming for the numbers. I think the style of the game is changing, especially as new stuff comes out. I’m thinking a lot of these new characters will make way for new mechanics in the game.

You said "The only exception to this and even I'm confused on this one" and I was hoping to finish the sentence with "Xinyan" but you said Collei LOL. Still not 100% sure what they were thinking with Xinyan especially after releasing Thoma. Her kit feels all over the place with split scaling in Phys vs. Pyro, Def% vs Attack%, and the shield requiring multiple enemies to get the most benefit out of it. I really think they need to take another look at her cuz right now I can't see where she'd fit. Even in the case where others can pull for other characters and upgrade at a later date she feels out of place.

Me, personally, I don't use Bennett and Xingqui. So I have a wider room to fill in. That makes me experiment with different units and team compositions. It makes the game more "difficult" in a sense. I'm having fun that way.

Dori is worth it for the 25% chance to refund resources when crafting, thats why they had to nerf her gameplay

@oyaoya7164

Жыл бұрын

Me looking at xingiqu refunding talent books: you sure?

Razor was my first DPS and is currently still being used. Over nearly 2 years I’ve gotten him full Glad and an r2 Wolf’s Gravestone (relatively free player, spent total $60 for Itto and Tighnari’s weapon). Man will hit around 11-18k, crit up to 24k. Pair him with Millelith Zhongli and he’ll crit closer to 30k. Trying to build YunJin so he gets another boost. I have absolute garbage luck when it comes to artifact rng so when I get a character hella built they’re staying with me. Plus Razor was one of the first (if not the first from banners) characters I got so he has a special place in my heart

I usually don't use character who capped their friendship, and almost never use burst. Not exactly to challenge myself, but it refreshes gameplay a bit and helps see things again how I saw them long time before. Also, just for fun, I took Barbara, Collei and Kuki, gave first two worst gear i had and defeated all weekly bosses quite easily. These dendro reactions are amazing for new players and casuals like me. And Collei can still produce enough cores to provide around 7K dps. Of course you cannot obliterate abyss with that, but otherwise i see her as a quite viable option for those who don't want to manage particles.

I hate the "making new units bad coz we don't want power creep" argument. You can make a unit good and avoid power creep. Just look and gorou - insane support for geo teams. And now look at Dori - what is her role? A battery that needs a second battery coz her burst costs 80 energy and her skill generates only 2 particles? A healer that has 8s downtime and heals 1/4 of Bennett? Powercreep is one thing, and making characters lowkey useless is another. Also, I don't understand the "unit for new players" argument - you need to unlock Sumaru to get her assertion materials. I am pretty sure by that point any player has another healer and/or electro unit to put on the team. Having the same units in every time since 1.0 is not fun, I am not trying to advertise power creep here, but it would be nice to get a good 4* from time to time

@dragonflymarcus

Жыл бұрын

theoretically speaking (and im 99% sure this is true), you can just walk to sumeru from the get-go, and because overworld enemies scale with world level, it's not like some insanely impossible task to grind a few materials to ascend these characters 2-3 times. and we DO get good 4 star units from time to time, Yun Jin, Sara, Gorou and Heizou are all objectively at LEAST "decent" units that have come out since 2.0, but that doesn't mean that every single 4 star has to be that way. And it's kinda unreasonable for you and the other handful of commenters that have said this to assume that "it's not hard to release equally-strong 4 stars" DUH it's difficult to do that, ESPECIALLY when you take a second to think about the insanely large amount of factors these developers have to take into consideration when MAKING new characters, i.e. their interactions with every other character, enemy and element in the game on top of all the new dendro interactions, + the fact that a new character comes out essentially EVERY 6 weeks (give or take) "but then why don't they buff/nerf them as needed after they're released?" You can literally count the amount of times Hoyoverse has done this on one hand. There are very few instances in which they buff/nerf live characters because #1 it becomes unfair to those who DO have them (if theyre nerfed) and it becomes unfair to those who DON'T have them (if they're buffed), and #2 because again, not every character needs to be equal in strength. that would be so boring, and SO repetitive.

@podlybolcownik

Жыл бұрын

​@@dragonflymarcus I would argue that the only good 4* character we got since 2.0 is Gorou. He has a unique way of buffing defense and geo dmg. He is practically irreplaceable in mono-geo teams. He even made them much more meta relevant My opinion on the rest of the characters: Sara - the only team that want to use her is Raiden Hyper and she is not that great there before C6 (putting Fisch in her slot is still a good option), also she is clancy to play before c2. One more thing making her much worst than Gorou is the fact that Raiden works perfectly fine without her, and arguable she has better teams. Yunjin - on paper she looks good, buff normal attack dmg and attack speed c6. But the problem is that she is still outclassed by other units. Only 2 meta characters that use mainly normal attacks are Yoimiya and Ayato. In Ayato's case, there is no good team that you can put her on (Vape Ayato - you would need to lose Anemo unit, vv and cc are much more important than normal attack buff, Taser - you can technically replace Beidou but once again, you will lose dps and there is like 5 better options, Soup - she is geo so she can't go there) With Yoimiya you can play her with Zhongli as second Geo. It is a good team but still, putting Bennett there instead of her will still be better Heizou - he's a copium sucrose. He was meant to be a better Anemo driver - in practice, he has little to noon grouping, his attack combo that gives you the best dps (N1C) throws enemies all over a map, he doesn't buff your team dmg other than just vv, his overall dmg is not good enough to justify putting him in the team over sucrose. You did not mention the rest of the 4* so I won't be writing my thoughts about them. I assume you don't think they are good (if you do I can elaborate) Coming back to the main topic - I don't mind some characters being worst than others, it is unrealistic to expect perfect balance. My main point is that we are not getting enough new 4* that are even close to some of the 1.0 characters. Gorou is the only one and he is good only in one archetype, if you don't play Itto or Noelle you probably won't even build him. All that said, I don't mind that much Inazuma characters (yes, in my opinion, they are underwhelming, but you still can find a niche for them) my main point was about Dori. She is just an awful unit, doesn't provide anything besides mediocre healing and a laughable amount of energy generation. Not even starting on the fact that she need a ton of ER to even function properly. I would also have a few things to tell about Collei but 1. you already address it in video 2. she will be a free unit so her not being as good as others limited banner characters is somewhere understandable. I am aware that there are a lot of factors and balancing is not the easiest thing in the world, but we never got overpowered character - just an underwhelming one. It's not like they have no clue about the power level of those units - there are beta servers to test them. I will tell you even more - 5* units are getting buffed, nilou and cyno received them. You mentioned that making a new unit or two every 6 weeks takes a lot of time and effort. I completely agree. So why did they put even more time and effort to give Collei and Dori a special ICD on burst? It is not like they didn't balance them well because they didn't have enough time to test - it was a conscious decision. And the funny part is, Dori would actually have a use without that additional ICD. It is not like she would become an insane op unit without it - she would still has the same problems as now, but at least she would offer something unique - really fast elemental application while being a healer And I totally agree with your statement about buffing and/or nerfing units after release - it is unfair and unnecessary in most cases The last thing that I want to address is the accessibility of ascension materials. I kinda overlook the fact that you probably could enter sumaru without a need of unlocking the chasm. So you are right, it is technically possible to level sumaru characters as a new player (still a bit suboptimal and anti-immersive to explore sumaru that early in-game, at least in my opinion). But you can't enter Inazuma before lvl 30 - that's a good chunk of gameplay and not leveling your characters past level 40 is a big disadvantage compared to 1.0 4*

@podlybolcownik

Жыл бұрын

@@dragonflymarcus Also please don't take my comment as a personal attack or hate, I am just sharing my point of view/opinion on the topic

Actuall problem with Sayu and Thoma is that materials are loced for newer players pretty far ahead so they already have some build characters when they can get to the bosses. And it was not that hard/gamebreaking to make Thoma apply pyro more often. so more people could use him in fun teams (and this is coming from person who really likes Thoma and has him build)

On the way you got as a newplayer to sumeru you have a build Fischl before you are even able to build Dori. So as long as they dont give a solution to Region Lock those characters keep being unused.

good take and gw on pronouncing dori right! first ytber ive heard say her name correctly : )

collei and dendro traveler are actually being used now but I already know the collei and or traveler dame kinda come down when navidad and Al Haitham come which is obvious but damn it’s gonna be like they were never real after they come out 💀

My C6 Collei is stuck at Level 40 and my C6 Dori is stuck at level 1... With how good the 5 stars are being released alongside them, I don't see any value of investing time and resources just to make them usable. Even my C6 Diona is still stuck at level 50 (well, since I have Zhongli, I only need Diona in Spiral abyss as a shielder for the other team) since I'm busy building Kokomi and Ganyu.

@diamond_impact

Жыл бұрын

TLDR: Collei and Dori is trash and not worth it to invest if you have Kuki, Bennett, ofc Dendro Traveller, Xingqiu. Useless 4 stars tbh.

@diamond_impact

Жыл бұрын

And another thing, having Tighnari, Collei will literally just collect dust.

It is also worth noting that with 4* units Hoyo has more room to shift power out of their base kit and into Cons. Dori for example seems to get a pretty decent upgrade at C2+. I wouldn't be surprised to see a trend like this continue, where 4* units are weaker at base but can get some solid upgrades as you pull more copies of them.

@jeremiahsmith916

Жыл бұрын

Please consider that 4* consts have a much bigger cost than it could seem. What if a desired 4* is featured on a banner where you don’t want the 5*? There’s no guarantee you’ll get one specific 4* in 80, 100, 200 pulls on that banner, you can easily waste 1 or 2 pities just chasing one copy of a character. It’s literally months of daily grind, if you don’t whale. Way too much opportunity cost for unlocking a 4* character’s “full” playability. Like imagine if you had to give up a whole 5 star pity for an ascension passive. That’s essentially what happens with gambling for 4* constellations.

I agree that's it good we are not getting powercreep for those characters that many have built already. But at the same time, they could at least make the new characters fun to play. Or rewarding to play in some way. Many just have such bad kits or they are just way too niche. there's no point to build them. Sure you can build and play the characters you like. I certainly do. Have 40 characters at 80 or above. But at the same time you'll do so knowing you wasted very valuable resources. That's not fun. As for Collei, isn't she going to be added to the perma banner? So she is somewhat the equivalent of LIsa, Kaeya, Amber. Obv closer to Amber. I have no problems with Collei, I still find her usable and she was the perfect character to start Sumeru with as you need a bow and dendro character just to explore.

The problem with these new characters is that, even if you want to pick them over older characters, they are held back by the place you get their materials at. This is the most apparent in Inazuma, locked behind the main quest and mostly inaccessible until more quests are done and the environment is subjugated. But imagine being new pulling a character from Natlan and getting locked out of playing them because the drops won't be available until you go through a lot of exploration.

Collei feels like she'd fit right in with the original trio of Amber, Kaeya & Lisa. Dori feels redundant because there's already electo claymore Razor & Beidou. She could have been unique if she was a hydro claymore character.

Counter point though, regional mats completely clash with the idea of these new characters being aimed towards new players. Although Sumeru is easier to get to than Inazuma, would a new player feel enticed to reach a zone outside of their "roadmap" as a beginner?

The flaw in your logic is there: We don't want insane SSS tier broken 4* characters. We want them to be good. And not in the level of "well they kinda do their job and you can 36* the abyss so they are good". I mean the way they synergize with other characters, the way their kits work, what roles they can fit and how good they are at it. For example, we got Heizou. Despite the fact that his skill hits hard and he is fun, he holds nothing compared to Xiao and Sucrose. BUT, he is way better than Sayu. Because he can fit support and damage dealer roles, and while he is not the best in any of them, he can work around and still be a good addition to the national or taser teams. He doesn't have any kit conflicting issues, and he doesn't have mechanics that are a pain to execute (Sara's charge shot), which is why Heizou is a good unit. Nothing is broken about him, but you can't say he is bad. On the other hand, we have Sayu. No CC, no damage, awkward kit (battle-wise), no team buffs. She is a full-on DPS loss and there is NO redeeming for her. If let's say her ult could generate a good amount of energy for the whole team and not only for herself - she would already be a great pick. She would be a Diona-tier unit in fact. Same with Dori, but her case is actually better, because she CAN restore energy, but ONLY for characters ON the field. Now let's just change it to "the whole team" and BAM. A budget Raiden. Would it break the game? No. Would it make Sayu and Dori better? Yes, absolutely. It would be worth going for them. We didn't add insane damage numbers to their kit, we didn't make them overpowered. Fischl, Beidou or Sucrose didn't lose their value and the meta stayed the same, it's just that Sayu and Dori are far better now and they can be budget options or a better pick for someone who wants to have healing in their team. Meta-shaking is actually a good thing, but if not, at least make characters good.

I think collei's role is just to filled up the same role type as amber, which is exploring and puzzle. you know that it far easier to solve dendro puzzle in openworld with dendro bow user than a dendro sword user. I know its kinda replacable by tighnari if you have him, but again tighnari isn't dendro support, so collei still filled this really niche role for now until we got better support dendro bow user

As a player who collects everyone, I find it hard to see the upside for having really underwhelming characters. It's not even a case of needing them to be stronger than our 4* holy trinity - I wouldn't want that, the lack of powercreep is what keeps me enjoying this game. Heizou is a good example of someone who is still solid on the whole despite being a Sucrose downgrade. And I'm a big fan of Gorou/Yun Jin who are powerful supports for their niche teams, which I was hoping would be the direction of 4*s going forward. For new players, the whole "they can enjoy these weaker ones for a while" shtick is kinda awful cuzz when they eventually get the better 4stars, they would have wasted their starting resources on characters they are sure to bench. On the opposite side of things, if they DO roll the better characters early or get them from the Starglitter shop (which you will naturally accrue over time), you'll be left wondering why this new character I just rolled for ended up being worse than someone I had already pre-built. It sounds more like a rationalising justification after the fact, rather than a real upside. Again I don't want them to be OP. But there's such a far gap between some of these new 4stars and our holy trinity - just closing the gap a bit more would be much appreciated. This could be via better mods on talents, giving them smaller but still solid buffs (like Heizou's small EM buff), or making them really good with a specific character or playstyle rather than a "general but underwhelming support".

@whyme3678

Жыл бұрын

To be honest, I think the extremely underwhelming and no utility 4-stars are more of an exception than the rule, and who mostly came from this patch. There's Collei, who is well and truly a downgrade in every sense of the word, outclassed by a character you can freely C6. There's Dori, who just doesn't do any of her jobs particularly well, even in comparison to another 4-star who was considered lackluster (Kuki, who has improved with time). And to some extent, there is Thoma, although there's more legitimate reason to built him now with the introduction of burgeon teams. His beefier shield was offset by the work required to achieve it, so there was little reason to use him instead of Diona. But now that Cryo doesn't have any interactions with Dendro, he offers role consolidation in bringing the needed Pyro application + shield. Kuki and Heizou are the generalist downgrades who still function quite well for what they're intended-- Kuki was pretty maligned on release, but it's clear now she was intended for Dendro. Yunjin/Gorou/Sara are all niche supports who excel in their niche without invalidating the original trinity. Sayu also fulfills a very particular niche, but one more aimed at exploration than combat. So really, the only new 4-stars that are nothing but resource sinks if you're not huge fans of them, are the ones released this patch. While it's not great to have any dead on arrival characters at all, I think having just 2 is not the worst crime a gacha has committed. Seeing as they are the most recent of a new patch, I'll have to reserve judgement on if this is the direction Mihoyo will permanently stick to moving forth.

@MagusInfermore

Жыл бұрын

@@whyme3678 Sayu is probably one of the best overworld utility characters in the game but tbh I don't think that has to come at the expense of being underwhelming in combat. Again, that particular critique sounds like a rationalisation after the fact, than any actual balancing reason. Thoma and Kuki were extremely underutilized on their release, with Dendro giving them a sizeable bump in viability (Kuki more so than Thoma cuzz Hyperbloom teams are just less awkward than Burgeon at the moment, plus she's a healer). But even then for someone like Kuki, she's still got very little support utility in that healer slot and her burst is still largely useless. Not to mention that Thoma and Kuki are only good in their EM builds, making the HP sections of their kit really weak. It's a much-appreciated bandaid, but it's still a band-aid end of the day. It's not player-friendly design, especially in a gacha game, where you have to commit to a character that's currently very weak and hope to the stars that they improve down the road. I'm happy there is post-release improvement, but the power levels of 4* should just really be a little higher innately. They can at the very least just bump up their talent dmg if they don't want to give them any utility or buffs.

the only "strong" OG 4* i've used consistently is Bennet. i've tried to use the others more, but they are so low level and i'm broke(exp/mora ty Xiao/Kazuha) and hate artifact rng/ farming boss drops so they are all sitting at lvl 40-70. tho i am trying to use build Xingqui/Fischl/Kuki these days cause i need more supports, i mainly have DPSs built but nothing to battery/heal/etc them except Benny boy and i know he's tired xDD

Having the dendro traveller useful was super cool but imo if they would made collei better than a dendro amber (that she is), it would have overshadow the future kusanali sales. I am guessing they want to make kusanali kit overly broken for applying dendro so people will pull for her even if she is not a hot mama like raiden... because we all know that some % of sales are linked to the character being a waifu or not (lets be real)

I understand the context is Abyss utility, but that is indeed part of why the units end up lackluster. Fun/Diverse Gameplay and Exploration Utility contribute to a unit's overall value. If you're heavily prioritizing damage output, as you've observed and stated, you can only really go up or down. Up spirals into a nightmare, so down it goes. Thus, they have to offset that with other reasons to use the units, by either providing niche utility in your second Abyss team, providing exploration benefits, or by being worth swapping in to substitute a "better" unit for the sake of fun.

Ningguang and Noelle can also carry a team in abyss. With the recent 4 stars released I wonder who among them can be carry material

@vinyasperla

Жыл бұрын

Other than heizou, can't remember anyone else.

I hope Candace is good, she's the only character I've ever pre-farmed and I hope it was worth it☹️

why do people keep saying collei is bad? i've found her dendro application to be great honestly, especially thanks to her little spinny thing, not the boomerang by the way, i mean the passive thing when it returns, to be fair i guess i entirely accidentally got c6 collei, i just only pulled collei so i was like "well, i guess it's a sign"

Even if Dendro MC is technically better I still use Collei anyway cos she's cute and I like her, she works well with Beidou in my main team (I don't play much spiral abyss) and I just got Kokomi too so I'm having a lot of fun with the new Dendro reactions

@dragonflymarcus

Жыл бұрын

yes, Collei is super based for fun! I still enjoy playing her cause personally she’s one of my favorite recent characters, I just wish they hadn’t powercrept her with a completely free-to-c6 character (DMC)

@SapphireRavenmoon

Жыл бұрын

@@dragonflymarcus Yeah I get that, they could've made her a little better being the first dendro 4 star but she's still one of my recent favourites too :)

Colleis not strictly worse than dmc. Her value is providing shorter rotations and better energy generation which is good for tighnari.

What you are saying is completely valid and understandable if you disregard one thing. These new "trash" 4-stars are generally from inazuma and sumeru and to level them up, you'd have to reach inazuma or sumeru. Sumeru is easy to get to, but inazuma will take you quite a while and so the age old problem remains, you can't level them up until you've become more of a regular player. By that time, you'd most likely gotten better characters or must have a few 5 stars on your account.