"Always keep the firearms pointed in a safe direction" Turret pistol: "good luck"

@FryingTiger

Ай бұрын

At least bullet is...

The obvious disadvantage of a turret syatem that didn't get mentioned was the fact that there's always a chamber pointing back at the shooter. You'd want to be very certain that there was no possiblity of flashover or other cause of unintended discharge.

@Ginrummy33

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I was expecting him to mention that, but he never did. Those fiddly hand loaded guns, or even hand-made cartridges (I expect) were much more prone to accidental chain discharge.

@jonathanferguson1211

Жыл бұрын

In general terms yes, one of the reasons they never caught on in the percussion era, but this being a cartridge system there's really no way for that to happen.

@IronClawGaming

Жыл бұрын

@@jonathanferguson1211 Your technically right but try telling that to a 1860s punter. You would never convince them having bullets pointing back at you was smart even if the gun was perfectly safe.

@L0stEngineer

Жыл бұрын

Yesssur, I may be drunk, but I'm pointing this thing at all 10 of us.

@michaelmoorrees3585

Жыл бұрын

A "chain fire" would really ruin your day !

I think this usage of "steampunk" is perfectly acceptable, being a niche 19th century technology that never took off, which was probably considered innovative/futuristic in its day.

@FryingTiger

Ай бұрын

Steam never took off? OK. Whoosh.

@yetanother9127

Ай бұрын

@@FryingTiger Turret revolvers never took off.

Fun fact. They do revolve the other way. It is the universe that rotates around the barrel.

Based on the video title, I thought it meant the cylinder revolving in the opposite direction. 😅

@alexanderdeifel4368

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking colt vs Smith and wesson too lol

The creativity of historical firearms has always fascinated me. Definitely an interesting microcosm of broader human ingenuity! Great vid!

@I_enjoy_some_things

Жыл бұрын

Despite owning no firearms, never going hunting, and barely having spent any time firing weapons, I love them. Can’t really explain why - might just be the engineering/mechanics behind them. Bolt actions from the late 19th/early 20th century are my weakness. Couldn’t care less about the more modern stuff if I’m being honest haha. There’s a certain beauty in older weapons that the newer polymer ones just don’t have. Craftsmanship. Idk lol

@yakhooves

Жыл бұрын

@@I_enjoy_some_things That's what's so fascinating to me too! Though I am a shooter (never a hunter though... I can't shoot Bambi or his mom!), I love historical firearms and the ingenuity behind them. I have a weakness for rifled muskets of the mid nineteenth century, and their simple clockwork-like locks are just amazing to me!

@kanrakucheese

Жыл бұрын

@@yakhooves With wolves displaced by humans, Bambi and his mom will devour the entire forest.

@yakhooves

Жыл бұрын

@@kanrakucheese well, go get them then! I just don’t want it to be me doing it, lol

@tenofprime

Жыл бұрын

​@@I_enjoy_some_thingswhat I find fun is these early designs where the makers are still working out the best way to do things or find an interesting way around a patent.

I’ve actually recently gone back and watched almost the whole back catalogue of the videos and remember the rifle version rather well. Bullets facing you when it goes bang….

Regardless of what it is, it's absolutely beautiful just as an object. The engraving and carving and the brass with the black and the rich colours of the woodwork is stunning.

I suppose it could have been updated to a pinfire system with a bit of work; but it was still going to be an odd duck. Super interesting nonetheless!

I assume the holes are not for loading or topping off but for safety. Should the system go out of time and shave lead into the nose of the chamber bedside it. It would potentially chain fire. Better to go out the side than through the frame. and seeing that those have a "tail" primer im sure that a good boop on the bullet nose could set off the primer. Also good for a hang fire. Cause as a hand loader that does happen occasionally.

the old misfire, resulting in all of them going off, including the one facing you.

@levifoster5639

Жыл бұрын

And the guys standing next to you

@alexanderdeifel4368

Жыл бұрын

Wouldn't there be 3-5 facing you? Really narrow the odds of dodging. Lol

@danghostman2814

11 ай бұрын

When you really need to shoot everyone in the room at the same time. Murder mystery in a box!

This reminds me of the 8mm movie camera system, where standard 8 cameras you had to manually feed the film through the reels, then the super 8 cartridge system came along where you simply dropped in a loaded film cartridge. I wonder if the turret system had been developed further into a less cumbersome firing/cocking system whether it would have made military use an option where a soldier could carry multiple drop in preloaded cartridges like a super 8 camera.

@thekaxmax

Жыл бұрын

with the right extra engineering it could be a semi-auto with drop-in discs.

@rippervtol9516

11 ай бұрын

(Lewis gun enters the room, looks around, walks out)

@thekaxmax

11 ай бұрын

@@rippervtol9516 but the chamber never points at the shooter, that's just a feed system on top. :P

@rippervtol9516

11 ай бұрын

@@thekaxmax True, I was just referring to the "turret style" drop in feed system.

@thekaxmax

11 ай бұрын

@@rippervtol9516 Yup, I know. But the turret issue, why it's remarkable, is the chambers and the fact it can potentially fire out of any of them if something goes bad. I have seen, BTW, a turret pistol where the disc is dished and the rear-pointing chambers point up at about 30 deg--enough to fire over your head. Still rather a shock, mind you.

Having seen Ian do a few turret revolvers, I was wondering what made this special. Then JF mentioned it wasn't percussion.

@thekaxmax

Жыл бұрын

it /is/ percussion, as he said. It's not /cap/ percussion, is what he's described.

You indeed gain more shots, but at the same time the chambers in this turret are far shallower than those in a classic revolver, so probably what it made up in capacity lost in terms of velocity and penetration, even with the gas seal.

The artistry on it is just beautiful.

200 rds in 15 minutes seems very impressive for 1850 even for such a novel operating system

Always super interesting, thanks Jonathan

That is an absolutely beautiful firearm. Thanks for the video, Mr. Ferguson.

Even though it looks nothing like it, I remember hearing about turret guns first in Fable 2, especially because they were my weapon of choice. Great video as always!

In my opinion, this is very reminiscent of the gestational development period of semi-automatic pistols, fifty years later. What we take for granted today as the obvious way that automatic pistols should work, with the slide and the moving/locking barrel and all those elements, weren't so obvious back then, and everyone was trying their own ideas. Just in the same way that back then, we hadn't fully settled on the idea that all the chambers of a revolver should remain parallel to the barrel and revolve around a central pinned axis to present themselves. So we get weird ideas like this. Of course, one ended up being almost universally agreed upon as they way forward and it's what we went with, in the 19th century it was Samuel Colt's basic layout and in the 20th it was John Moses Browning's.

Flash in the pan. Nice gun quip😂

This firearm is fascinating, I'd be curious how much inspiration that was shared one way or the other between these weapons and Colt revolvers of the time, if they was any shared inspiration. Also, if the Armory has the right examples, I'd love to see Mr. Ferguson do video where he lays out weapons of particularly prolific designers and show all the examples of their work and what they added to their designs that we still see today. I'm thinking of a large table with all the weapons attributed to John Browning would make a great start, but then less well known designers who still produced a variety of weapons.

It's the man who keeps Ian mccollum awake at night

Knew i'd seen a silhouette like that before, but couldn't place it in my head.

Hello, Mr Ferguson. I'm a big fan of your series where you review armaments from video games and I'd like to recommend the game Kane & Lynch 2: Dog Days, as it has a very unique weapon selection that often isn't seen in video games, consisting of mostly Chinese guns.

I'm surprised that you didn't mention the Nagant revolver when discussing the gas seal. I regret not buying one when there was a glut on the American surplus market a couple of decades ago. I'd love to turn one into a suppressed revolver with a holographic sight.

I'd mentioned in a later video an idea for a series where various that I'd find an "anatomy of a gun" video detailing the various common parts of a gun stlystem and the myriad variatiojs on them very informative and interesting - not sure if in that comment I extended the interest to ammunition. I think the various features of rounds, shells, propellants, how bullets were made, how different calibers are assessed, various feed mechanisms and magazines or clips and the like work - are all very interesting too! I'm essentially a huge nerd for chemistry, manufacturing, and mechanics; the more info I'm provided the more I want to learn!

Such a glorious pistol. Thank you, Jonathan, for reinforcing my firearm addiction :p.

killing it as always Jonathon, good stuff mate

I mean, if this had a little steam turbine attached to make it auto, it might claim the title of earliest PDW

@mastersafari5349

11 ай бұрын

In that case PDW would stand for "personally dangerous weapon"

Any idea how old the term "turret gun" is? According to Wikipedia (yes, I know, but for this kind of trivia it's reasonably accurate) the first warship with turrets wasn't laid down until in 1866 and not in service until two years later. Prior to that, the word "turret" generally referred to a small tower. So I'm mostly curious if the term "turret gun" or "turret revolver" is a modern term retroactively applied (like "arming sword") or if it was actually used in period.

@johanmetreus1268

11 ай бұрын

Wikipedia is only ever as accurate as the sources used to write the article. Still, a good question.

@davydatwood3158

11 ай бұрын

@@johanmetreus1268 Well, yes, but that statement is true of any written source that isn't original research. I should perhaps observe that I'm a librarian, and trained to evaluate the reliability of sources. :)

@johanmetreus1268

11 ай бұрын

@@davydatwood3158 Very true that. The tank history community certainly have suffered from otherwise reliable authors citing eachother, perpetuating hard-to-kill myths introduced by a single author in the early years after WWII. More specifically though, would you agree that it would be more adequate to regard Wikipedia more as a repository of unique articles, where each has to be judged individually, han a standard work?

@davydatwood3158

11 ай бұрын

@@johanmetreus1268 Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Like *any* tertiary source, the individual articles are written by a variety of authors and edited by people who are not subject matter specialists. When rigorous factual accuracy is required, a tertiary source is useful for a listing of primary and secondary sources, as well a source of terminology or jargon that can be used as search terms in a subject-focused database, but should not, in general, be relied upon in and of itself. *This* caution is just as true of the Encyclopaedia Britanica Macropedia as it is of Wikipedia, however. Indeed, if the subject is subject to rapid academic growth and involves mostly quantifiable data - astrophysics and organic chemistry are good examples - Wikipedia is usually more accurate than the Brit Mac, as its structure allows it to update faster. For areas with more subjective stat, social sciences, or areas that have somehow become connected to political ideology or personal, national, ethnic, or other forms of identity, Wikipedia is much less reliable.

@wbfaulk

11 ай бұрын

The OED has "turret gun" (or at least "turret gunner") from 1870. But that refers to the gun in a turret on a warship, which is probably not what you're asking about.

Those "loading gates" also disperse the little bit of gas which bypasses the barrel seal.

I suggest, holding pistol in right hand , release barrel with left hand, depress turret catch with right thumb, rotate turret with left hand , releasing right thumb to allow index, close barrel lock with left hand.

Hey, just so you know, there isn't any link to littlegun in the description; what's worse is when I went to the site myself I couldn't find this gun on it, and I was quite looking forward to seeing the picture of the mustachioed creator! I'd appreciate any help

Could the quick loading gates be to went gas leakage from shooting and stop it from entering the next chamber if it get around the bullet? And if it cooked of the bullet would simply fly out the hole 36 degree the direction you fire. Yes you could also use them for quick loading,

@terpman

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing. A chain-fire on that thing would be very exciting. A normal revolver would just send everything in front of you. Much less dangerous for the user.

What a perfect example of humanity's irrepressible urge to ask and answer insane questions.

I saw “Under Hammer opening for “Beast in Black” and “Night Wish”

Thank you. Quite an unusual design, but the engraving on top is very ornate.

The voice audio is much better in your latest content. 👍

Possibility of a chainfire from the primer end as there seems to be a large gap around the turret pivot. Perhaps the reason for the two holes on either side? I wouldn't want to fire it 😖

It seems pretty cool to gain an extra four rounds per load, but in order to increase the capacity you'd need to make the cylinder much, much larger in diameter than you would with a traditional revolver as each round is inserted toward the center of the circle rather than around it. It's much less space efficient.

Are the primer tubes the same as the type used by the Austro-Hungarian musket/rifle musket conversions?

Nice looking pistol, but if you get any sort of chain fire or all the Chambers firing at once, one or more of the Chambers are facing towards the user at all times.....😮

Holy hell I want one so bad

Seems it was an inspiration for the Protector palm pistol, wasn´t it?

Regarding size, could the turret not be rotated 90 degrees so that it is orientated like a wheel, i.e., on one side of the pistol?

"Belgian language" uh oh

@I_enjoy_some_things

Жыл бұрын

>angry European noises can be heard across the Channel, they also seem to be fiddling with their bicycles.

@aapje

Жыл бұрын

I found the page and it's actually in French. For those who are curious, Belgium has three official languages, Dutch, French and German.

@Casmaniac

Жыл бұрын

He is a secret Belgian francophone chauvinist, it's all part of his political agenda

When I saw the title, I was thinking clockwise Vs anticlockwise cylinder rotation - does that come up at all?

Yo, where's the link?

You didn't mention the biggest issue with turret revolvers. There are bullets *pointing towards you* if there's a chain fire you are going to get a hole in yourself. I believe this happened to the inventor of a turret revolver who traveled from town to town trying to show people how safe his new system was. I can't think of any contempary firearm system which has bullets pointing towards you. The P90 has bullets parallel to the shooter, but not pointing towards the shooter and that's the only one I can think of.

@F1ghteR41

Жыл бұрын

I believe you could dig through German designs for future rifle of the '70s (what would later become G11) and find some that would point bullets towards the shooter at some stage of the cycle. With caseless ammo that wouldn't be particularly safe, I presume.

@Sableagle

Жыл бұрын

The P90 ammunition is stacked up in a plastic box while it's turned sideways. These round would be chambered the whole time. That definitely makes a difference to how hard a round can spit.

I didn't even need to play the video to know what was wrong with this design. The notion of a revolving long gun (in the conventional style) was considered, but you'll note you do not see them. Why not? Because it's possibe something could cause multiple rounds from the cylinder to fire at once. Through your support hand/arm. Something like that in this case would fire rounds in any random direction! An interesting curiosity, but I'd never load and fire it-and not for the risk of damaging a valuable artifact of history. No, I don't consider the thing safe! Fun to have a look at all the same, enjoyed the video!

The fact that when you aim at enemy you also aim at yourself is also a little concerning IMHO.

"Belgium language" - The one that sounds like French, or the one that sounds like Dutch. Or like pretty much all north western Europeans, the can speak English.

Seems to me with the cartridges being so short, this would a very low power pistol. Perhaps a target pistol but I would suspect it was inadequate for defense.

The *_other_*_ other_ way, so there are chambers pointing down at your hand as well as back at your face, allows you to wear it next to your body with a chamber pointing up into your armpit.

I can't help but think "Discworld dwarves" every time you say Underhammer.

Where's the link?

@aapje

Жыл бұрын

It's written in the Belgian language...aka...not there.

Was gang firing a problem with that style? I can see why it wasn’t popular if the chambers facing you might also go off when it’s fired.

@MansMan42069

Жыл бұрын

I know you meant hang firing but gang firing is too funny

@PitFriend1

Жыл бұрын

@@MansMan42069 No it’s gang firing, a problem that sometimes happened with early revolvers loaded with loose powder. A spark from the fired chamber could set off one or more of the other loaded chambers not in line with the barrel. Not only could this destroy the gun but in the case of a revolver rifle one of the shooter’s hands could be in the way or with a turret revolver like this the chamber could be the one pointed at the shooter’s face.

@MansMan42069

Жыл бұрын

@@PitFriend1 isn't that chain firing? Huh. You learn a new word every day.

It became more obvious why this style of system was not widely adopted with every utterance of a synonym for “weird”.

Your description of the cartridge sounds a lot like a teat-fire cartridge. Is it possible that the barrel locking into the turret was an attempt to prevent chain firing, since the turret system was somewhat known to have that problem?

I don't understand how you get the spent cartrige out after its been fired.

Chain Fire fun!

I was wondering how to tell if a gun needs old ammo or new?

This would make a great Destiny exotic

Ever see a chainfire in a turret revolver? In a regular revolver, it'll damage the gun, maybe even blow it up, but everything is pointed downrange. In a turret revolver, you're literally firing in all directions, including back at the person holding the gun.

2:55 i dont know... it seems to me that turret revolver can hold way less ammo than standard. because outer part of turret is always bigger so there is lots of wasted space there. besides there are 20 shot revolvers seen... for that turret would have to be huge. i mean sure drum is pretty big too.

It is rare I can correct you on your French, but in this case I think it reads « breveté » (patented), as French for patent is just « brevet » !

now he ask, is the p90 a revolver? I mean it revolves the bullets to load them

So, if it has a gas seal, theoretically, you could have, with the right manufacturing methods, threaded a barrel for attachment of a very basic suppressor?

@alexanderdeifel4368

Жыл бұрын

Being that it is more than likely black powder. And non jacketed soft lead. That suppressor would need more maintenance than the gun. Still a cool thought. 😂 wish they were less rare would be cool to test.

@FyremaelGlittersparkle

Жыл бұрын

@alexanderdeifel4368 just thinking from the perspective of the Nagant revolver design also having a gas seal from the cylinder locking up with the breech face and being able to be suppressed as a mechanic result? It seems like it was one of those ideas that would have been cool to see how it would have progressed if it hadn't been an abandoned branch along the invention tree.

@F1ghteR41

Жыл бұрын

@@FyremaelGlittersparkle Suppressed Nagant revolvers were generally a bit more sophisticated with their cartridge as well, if memory serves. Jonathan had discussed it a while back, as I recall.

Nope - still dont understand

Degtyaryov took one look and had an idea for a ligjt machinegun.

Those extra holes are there because of the danger of chainfire

the thought of chainfires and chambers poining in all kinds of direktions are a bit scary

I wonder what ballistics you'd get from such a pistol with such a small area for powder and wad.

Unhinged. I wouldn't be anywhere near that thing.

This seems like it would have been successful if only the cylinder wasn't integral to the gun. If you had the cylinder just carry rounds and operate a Martini Henry style breech to just drop ammunition in, it could have been way more useful.

Looks to me like a Lewis Gun with it round pan magazine on top.

What a whacky design. Can't say I hate it though, in fact I like the originality a lot.

it's still a cylinder. Just because the aspect ratio is different, let's not discard sound geometric nomenclature. Technically a coin is a cylinder

@mrfarts5176

Жыл бұрын

That face was actually meant to be a jew face.

@fordprefect294

Жыл бұрын

@@mrfarts5176 I'm sorry, but what what the actual fuck?

It seems to me as though the barrel was used more so as a safety mechanism to align the cylinder and the holes on either side may have been for any gas spillage to exit without moving in towards the next cartridge in any instance where there WAS some blowby backwards...but also those two ports could have been load one - turn cyl to fire, load a second one, unload the empty "casing" after shooting the first one, repeat, that sorta thing. my bigger worry is that i wouldn't want ANY repeater, certainly not one with all of the primers pointed inwards like that, but really woudn't want any repeater to have one-two of the rounds pointed backwards between my eyes!!! that just doesn't pass the comfort test haha

OK Johnathon it's got 10 'shots', but this piece is 1853 - 20 years after the Colt Patterson, which most people would recognise as a revolver. This 'turret' type most would assume was reminiscent of the sort of thing that was around in the C16th (examples of which will be in your collection) so your 'steampunk' moniker ain't the half of it !

pretty obvious it was designed by an Artillery man rather than a Calvary man, because it is inconvenient in every department, you'd have a quicker time reloading a barrel loaded pistol.

Random misfire?

@connorwilkinson2196

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking of the risk of chain fire and hurting yourself or people alongside you, though I've no idea how much of a risk that would be.

0:51 Conventional revolvers as well - early Lefaucheux models had similar trigger guards and somewhat similar grips. 3:00 ...And, more importantly, would result in very high bore axis, which has undesirable effects on perceived recoil. 5:39 I suspect quite a few Flemish-speaking viewers might be offended here, but I prefer to believe Jonathan ment Belgian French. 😉 And yes, the English version of the site is not without its defects: I've seen some rather strange turns of phrases there, which I suspect might rise from translation errors. 10:52 Given that the aforementioned Lefaucheux had already produced a conventional revolver and pinfire cartridges for it, I'm at a loss in regards to what could be gained with such a complicated system, especially in Belgium at the time when patent enforcement was mostly theoretical. Was it the first instance of the future Belgian obsession with gas seal designs? 19:00 I can't see why pinfire and rimfire cartridges would struggle with underhammer. The turret design would, however, but that wouldn't work with centerfire ammo too. 19:35 It wouldn't be such a problem with saddle holsters.

So it's like a kammerladder

If you squint very much at it, it could be the very 1st Lewis gun very early prototype🤣🤣

Bungie: a new exotic handcannon? (Come on bungo look at this thing)

12:44 I dont think thats why those holes are there..... you ever hear of chainfire?

It's the DP-28's grandpa

12:50 If you loaded through those holes, i would think the cartridge would fall out. I would suggest they are in case of accidentally firing one of the "cylinders" next to the one you intend. With all the primers in close proximity, it would make sense to have a way for the weapon to go off in this manner without removing your hand in the process.

So it’s not that nothing of it was catching on. Only if you think in Revolver terms, but a round pan magazine on top, so that you can have more round? Yes, that’s often used in guns.

Can you call this a cylinder? Isn't it more like a "disc"?

Hah. Read the title and thought it was going to be why revolver chambers don't rotate widdershins. Ah well.

More of a disc than a cylinder... 😁

Of course it fiddly, it's in a British museum!

Do you have a Remington Elliot .32 derringer or a beretta 1918?

is it a turret revolver, or is it a drum magazine?

Did you really just say a " flash in the pan"?

Nothing complicated about that then.

Ok I managed to get to the little gun web page, but I can't find anything on it. Could you please pin the comment with the link.