About your formal linguistics qualifications: one of the things I like about you is, if there's something you don't know, you come right out and say it. Or if there is ambiguity or range of opinions, you tell us about that to the best of your knowledge. There is something to be said for formal qualifications; but with that, sometimes, you get someone who is a bit too full of themselves and their expertise. What I'm saying is, your readiness to concede unknowns is one of the things I like about you.

@mesechabe

4 ай бұрын

I agree, and I have to say that I had a confrontation, some months back about the knowledge, ability, and honesty, people such as Simon and discuss things like this. This person went to the terminal degree and everything, of course, which is common among even amiable academics. But a terminal degree doesn’t mean you know everything.and there is no guarantee of honesty, accurate accuracy, or fairness he knows who claim the so-called terminal degree. As if to say, there can be no intelligence without degrees.

@JoelRosenfeld

3 ай бұрын

@@mesechabe that is all very true, but let’s not forget Simon is indeed very well educated. He also spent his time as university studying these topics in the libraries.

Hard to call this a ramble, I would said, but a well-structured introspect, indeed :D I have two anecdotal episodes related to what you mentioned: first, a phonetic sound change that people's brains actually are not aware of (the thing that you mentioned), and second, the impact of social aspects on sound change. I live in another part of world from yours, and I don't speak English as my mother tongue, to which you (or others) might wonder how my episodes are actually related. But I would like to say those two things are more like quite language-universal, which you can even observe in non-Indo-European languages. I speak a rural dialect of South Korean, and one thing that I found out when I moved to Seoul (where the most prestigious dialect in South Korea is used) was that people mumbled the last vowel of a word (in particular, [a] to [ə]) in daily conversations. For example, like instead of [ɑnnjʌŋɑsɛjo] (hello) they pronounced it like [ɑnnjʌŋɑsɛjə]. It was not just some peculiar phenomenon that was found in some fixed everyday conversations. They tended to make the last vowel of a word almost schwa-like or even a schwa. When I was able to settle in and make some friends, I asked Seoulites, out of curiosity, if they knew whether they tended to mumble the last sound of a word. Many people said that they didn't do so, and some of them even insisted that, even if I heard something like that, that might have been some younger generations' slackening their pronunciations. Well, I recorded their voices and chopped the last sound out, and put it side by side with the recording of vowels that were not at the end of a word. Almost everyone was perplexed. They were completely unaware of whether they did so. A real (anecdotal) example of 7:00, I think. And of course, this kind of vowel weakening at the end of a word is actually widespread, and may not be anything peculiar. And when it comes to the social aspects of sound change, I had a unique opportunity to use a linguistic time-machine :) As I briefly mentioned before, I speak a rural dialect, and I moved to a new place where the prestigious dialect was used. Back then, I literally had a zero time to "gradually" switch my accent in such a way that my accent sounded more like the prestigious Seoul dialect. I literally had to learn how Seoulites spoke so that I ended up with having two accents in my brain: the rural one that I learnt when I was young, and the prestigious one that I picked up because of the social pressures that I had to suffer. Naturally, I stopped using the rural accent although I occasionally spoke it with my brothers and sisters. And about 10 years later since I moved to Seoul, I had a chance to visit my hometown. I found out that my own rural accent was actually kind of "fossilized," like kept in a time machine. Local people in my hometown no longer spoke like the people in my memory; their accent was much more like the prestigious Seoul dialect. What surprised me was even the people who were like 20-30 years older than me used a drastically changed accent, making what I said (in my fossilized rural accent) sound like something from old records. My own rural accent wasn't changed (but fossilized) because I adapted to social pressures (or social prestige) by learning a new accent. But people in my hometown were constantly under a strong social pressure from the most prestigious dialect (but not as much as they had to completely throw their rural accent away and learn a new accent), and their accents changed over the past 10 years. It was personally a really shocking (but very amusing) experience because to my fossilized ears, even the people older than me in my hometown spoke as if they were teenagers who wanted to mimic what they saw on TV!

@mmiramm

4 ай бұрын

p.s.) Someone might think that people in my hometown "just" changed, not because of any particular social pressures. But there's so many reasons why I put it as "social pressures." TLDR; my rural dialect has been (or was) strongly stigmatized in South Korea. Like accents uneducated rural farmers would use. Uneducated villains or gangsters on TV shows would often use something very similar to my rural accent. :)

@terrycunningham8118

4 ай бұрын

That was very interesting. Thank you.

@lilith6072

4 ай бұрын

that's fascinating about your fossilized dialect! many places in america including where i live have a considerable population of native spanish speakers with varying levels of english, and from my shaky grasp of español have observed that same thing of certain (especially final) syllables getting "reduced" to schwa from them, which is guess to possibly be from english influence. id love to see more research on the diversity of american accents!

@infpdreams

4 ай бұрын

This was one of the most interesting comments I've ever read on this website. You're a very perceptive individual to pick up on so much of this, especially in such nuance. Thanks for sharing!

@joshuahillerup4290

4 ай бұрын

There's a lot of the "fossilized" effect in expat communities too

0:16 POV your friend wakes you up to talk about linguistics for 20 minutes

@yatoxic1213

4 ай бұрын

This has to get pinned.

@MAKOBITE

4 ай бұрын

I only subscribed to this channel for Simon's voice. I could listen to him talk all day.

@the_real_glabnurb

4 ай бұрын

And then he tells you that he has finally reached a higher level of perception and now understands the real reason for the existence of the universe. *As he pulls out a butcher knife from the drawer* he tells you about the shadow lurkers clinging to every human and how they manipulate the thoughts of every human being and they cause all the evil and diseases in the world and the only way to free the humans is by cutting them of you *as he approaches you with his eyes wide open and a crazed look on his face, the knife know pointing at your chest*

@Matty002

3 ай бұрын

@@MAKOBITEseriously asmr and linguistics? absolute WIN!

@fernandojorge7764

Ай бұрын

"but I'm not a linguist"

The conversational style of this video makes it feel comfortable, straightforward, curiosity-sustaining, and very high quality. Keep it up.

As a Brit living now in SW France, I can hear myself occasionally adapting my French nasal sounds to match the local pronunciation. It's an unconscious thing, but my brain picks up the change with an almost surprised expression on its face, as if to ask 'why on earth are you doing that?'. My brain then answers the question with 'in order to be slightly less different'. It can't be a conscious thing, as I know perfectly well that my English accent pretty well drowns out any tiny adjustments in particular vowel sounds!

@FrozenMermaid666

4 ай бұрын

Technically, some accents are way better than most others and fit the words better, for example, the standard American accent is the best and prettiest English accent with the most professional / serious sound, and there are a few other accents that are also really nice, whereas that accent where the Ts are dropped (bo’le of wa’er instead of bottle of water) doesn’t sound right at all and doesn’t fit the English words, but some speakers still use it tho, and I think it’s always one or a few speakers that influence the accent of each village or region, and usually the ones that inspire the different accents tend to make the choice to slightly change the accent consciously... Sometimes it can be a subconscious thing, but still kinda conscious in a way, especially over the past decades, as everything has been getting more and more modern, so a lot of speakers are switching to an accent that sounds cooler and more modern, as everyone wants to sound cool, after all, especially the younger speakers, even the ones that don’t consciously realise it... I do this too, for example, I don’t like the standard French accent / pronunciation, because it’s too nasal and the vowels aren’t open at all, so I pronounce French words with more normal open vowels and I make the sound less nasal, because it sounds way better and more toned-down and closer to Old French pronunciation, and, I started using an Icelandic accent in other languages like English / Dutch / Italian etc and even in Norse, because the Icelandic accent (where the soft H sound is included before double consonants or before certain consonants, for example, pronouncing ekki like ehki etc) is one of the prettiest things I have ever heard... And I also started including elements of the prettiest Dutch accent in certain English words, because Dutch also has some of the prettiest sounds & diphthongs ever such as EE (pronounced like ey / ei usually, like the ei in eight, especially when used before a V or F etc) and UI and the unique sound that is right between a normal A sound and a normal E sound etc that I also want to use in some English words because it makes them sound cooler, so, I started pronouncing daughter as dahduhr and event as eivent etc... Both the Dutch accent and the Icelandic accent go well with words from any language I know or am learning, so it can be used in some some words from English and from all my target languages to make them sound cooler and hotter, and some of the more unique Dutch pronunciation rules too, because Icelandic and Dutch are the most romantic-sounding languages ever and two of the prettiest languages ever and have some unique sounds and some unique sound combinations that the other pretty languages don’t have, and even the other prettiest languages ever like English / Norse / Gothic / Faroese / Norwegian / Danish don’t have some of them...

@FrozenMermaid666

4 ай бұрын

To get rid of the English accent in French, one must consciously not pronounce the French words as in English, and one should also not open the mouth much, because speakers of French don’t open the mouth much when saying the French words, which is also one of the things that influence the sound, so it can help a lot if one tries to observe the mouth movements that native speakers of French make and if one learns the words automatically with their pronunciation and spelling, and if one tries to imitate the exact sounds that one hears, while making the exact mouth movements, and consciously using a more relaxed pronunciation... French pronunciation isn’t as non-relaxed as English pronunciation, though it’s still non-relaxed, but more like between 75% and 85% non-relaxed, which is just slightly more non-relaxed than Brazilian Portuguese pronunciation, whereas English uses a 100% non-relaxed pronunciation, which means that the lips and the muscles involved in speaking are tensed up to the maximum when one is speaking English, or something like that... It’s very hard to explain this, but it’s all controlled by the hern, and the way the sounds are projected is also different in each language, but if one keeps this level of ‘vocal tenseness’ and the same sound projections as in English, one is going to get English accents in French... So the level of tenseness must be consciously adjusted a bit in the beginning and the lips must be made into a different shape when speaking and the sound must be projected differently, until new speaking habits are formed, and after a while one will naturally be able to pronounce French words without English accent naturally... But in the beginning one must definitely do this consciously, because it can take very long for new speaking habits to be developed naturally and unconsciously, plus most speakers don’t develop new speaking habits naturally because they have this unconscious fear of sounding funny to natives if they try to imitate natives, which prevents them from naturally trying to imitate the sounds and mouth movements they hear and see and practicing pronunciation and accent etc, unlike children that are learning the first language or the first two or three languages, as children don’t have this fear and don’t think about such things, so they just imitate the sounds and mouth movements they hear and see until they get the right sounds and accents, which is why children can naturally develop even two or multiple speaking habits naturally...

@selen332

4 ай бұрын

@@FrozenMermaid666 >for example, the standard American accent is the best and prettiest English accent with the most professional / serious sound not true at all

@mjinba07

4 ай бұрын

Unintentionally / automatically picking up local pronunciation and sounds in speech is almost certainly a completely normal and healthy form of social bonding, or at least fitting in. We're primarily, deeply social animals, after all. It seems to interface with personal identity, too. For example, I had a high school teacher years ago who' been living and teaching in the northern U.S. for decades, but she'd visit her home state of Texas from time to time and always returned with a freshened accent. She'd make a point of wearing her cowboy boots, too, and she was no horseback rider. She seemed very intentional, almost defiant about it. We all noticed!

@georgina3358

4 ай бұрын

​@@selen332I agree entirely. I think the idea of a 'pretty' accent is totally subjective

Where I live (suburbs of a town called Worcester Massachusetts -- sort of near Boston), older people (over 55, say) speak with a strong New England accent even if they are from the suburbs or a rural place, even if they are upper-middle class; but the youth rarely if ever speak in that way, unless sometimes they might if they are from the city and are working class. In high school and my early 20s I'd go to people's houses and notice that the kids and youths had general American accents while their parents had strong New England accents (same household). In my neck of the woods, you will not hear someone over 65 (unless from another region) without a strong New England accent, and you will almost never hear someone from outside the city under 30 who has one. People in their 40s, it's a mix. Some people have some features, but they are reduced (in other words it's closer to general American).

@argonwheatbelly637

2 ай бұрын

Woostah.

its really crazy when you learn about production vs perception and sociolinguistics because once you start listening to yourself you catch all kinds of utterances and discover patterns eg: ill front my PRICE vowel when im trying to be nice/polite, back my MOUTH vowel when being stern/upset, and shift my TRAP even more with certain people

More “rambly” videos! Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks.

Speaking for myself, i have been slowly incrementally changing my own accent over time, very slightly each time, on purpose to be devilish

@54032Zepol

4 ай бұрын

Like u.s. southern accent or Welsh accent maybe the more prominent cod accent?

@dianelipson5420

4 ай бұрын

Bravo.👏🏻

On how you change your accent, sometimes my Yorkshire accent gets stronger when talking with people from other regions. I think it's because I'm proud of where I come from and what to emphasise it. I'm sure there's situations where I soften it without realising.

It's crucial to understand that sound change is very much a feature, not a bug. The complexity of possible objects and situations that a speaker might encounter means that semantic change is utterly inevitable. If constant sound change were absent, groups that had been isolated for some time would be at serious risk of miscommunication due to the semantic changes, without any warning. Sound change provides precisely such a warning; the more different someone sounds from you in their first few utterances, the more on guard you ought to be for semantic confusion to arise.

@differous01

4 ай бұрын

The Golden Age of Solomon was the Golden Age of Tyre, when Hebrew and Phoenician were mutually intelligible, yet Hebrew itself contained regional variants: "they (Gilead-ites) said to him (an Ephraim-ite), “say Shibboleth,” and he said, “Sibboleth,” for he could not pronounce it right" [Judges12v6]

@lilith6072

4 ай бұрын

​@@differous01i love this story bc it's kind of an ancient and famous example of something so universal

@fritzp9916

4 ай бұрын

On a similar note, it's a feature and not a bug that you have a foreign accent when speaking a foreign language. People will speak to you more slowly, and closer to the official written form of the language, and they will be more forgiving if you take a second or two to form your sentence or even if you accidentally say something inappropriate.

@differous01

4 ай бұрын

@@fritzp9916 After the Norman Harrowing of the North Newcastle was re-populated from Denmark. The Geordie and Frisian accents are mutually un-intelligible, but retain the same rhythm and cadence. We're born able to mimic the 'music' of our mother-tongue , heard in the womb, and, whatever languages/accents we later master, our 1st accent is the one we reach for in distress. There's no music like Home.

@indef2def

4 ай бұрын

@@fritzp9916 Hehe, my studying linguistics contributed to my having a less pronounced accent in my early days of learning Korean, so after the first greeting sentences, people would start talking to me really fast and my comprehension would drop to 10% or so. 😀

Ramble on, good sir! These videos are great!

This conversational format is a big part of why I subscribed.

Where I live the accent difference between just father and son is radically different. My hoemtown changed from Lancashire to Merseyside in 74, and for some reason the accent changed too. So you can have a parent generation born in the 40s/50s sounding something like Jim Bowen, and their children born in the 70s/80s sounding like John Bishop, even though they spent their whole lives in exactly the same area.

@amandachapman4708

4 ай бұрын

You a Sandgrounder? I noticed the difference too between older and younger ones, who sound a lot more Scouse.

@rezza_lynsaii

3 ай бұрын

That sounds so cool. I’m a young Geordie and apparently some people think I sound Scottish sometimes. I guess due to the current climate or just me lol

Brilliant conversational style, I could easily listen to it in the cat without watching the screen.

@robertwhite2628

4 ай бұрын

Olga on a Simon Roper video! Just the crossover I needed before Blake Fell.

My three children are bilingual English and Czech and live in the Czech Republic. My two sons have a British English accent because they learned English by listening to @DanTDM's video game commentaries on KZread. Thank you Dan! 👍On the other hand, my daughter doesn't watch @DanTDM, as she is far more interested in art and handicrafts than video games. Therefore she watches mostly KZread videos made by creators from the USA, and consequently speaks English with a US accent. Don't underestimate the power of KZread!

Been watching you for a couple years now. As soon as my financial situation improves, I will be on your Patreon like flies on shit. Hails and cheers from Florida, the dumbshine state.

@godfreypigott

4 ай бұрын

Trump or DeSantis ... not sure is Dumb and which is Dumber.

@johngavin1175

4 ай бұрын

@@godfreypigott They both are the dumbest 👍🏽

not sure about everyone else, but i like these kinds of videos. they're straight to the point and don't beat around the bush. it feels like talking to a friend. that and i am genuinely interested in this topic. so there's my stance on that!

I don't see a lot of *actual* academic linguists making videos of such quality content such as yourself, mate. Keep on keeping on!

Ramble away mate, it adds to the character of the vid, something the AI voiced videos lack in abundance. Asking a politician a question and getting a straight answer.....?! I have learnt so much from this channel, my favourite on YT, many thanks for another excellent vid and interesting content Simon. Curiously, after watching you I always feel like being pleasant to everyone, what's that all about cos I am a miserable auld fart at best.

Growing up in Southern New Zealand, it never even occurred to me that “peer”, “pear”, and “pier” aren’t homophones. Once I started travelling the world and developing and interest in languages and linguistics, I had a lot of unexpected learning about my own native accent!

@godfreypigott

4 ай бұрын

In Aus, peer and pier are homophones. Pear and pair are different homophones. Are you saying pear rhymes with beer in NZ?

@pierreabbat6157

4 ай бұрын

I'm American, and I'd write their sounds as /piɹ/, /peɹ/, and /piɹ/. How do you pronounce them?

Your rambles are more organised than my best presentations 😂

"Socially desirable" is an interesting way of putting it. I don't think I've noticed this specifically with the anticlockwise vowel shift. I have occasionally noticed when I'm in a group of strangers or only very casual acquaintances all with very similar accents to each other but different to mine, I feel very self-conscious; I'm not usually the sort of person to subconsciously imitate another's accent but I can definitely see this being the sort of place where someone more inclined (subconsciously) to do so would. I've noticed this self-consciousness both when in a group of people with more conservative SSB accents than my own, that is with more upper-middle class connotations, and those with accents more towards the Estuary English end ie with working class connotations. I've also noticed it with different regional accents (eg when in a group of Northerners or Welsh people), though of course since regional accents are still at least somewhat tied with perception of class in Britain it's hard for me to say for sure this is separated in my subconscious mind.

I could never find your videos annoying, Simon! They're a joy to watch whatever the format. Keep up the excellent work!

I'm Canadian. They say the Canadian accent is undergoing a vowel shift. I do know many accents from say, the 1930s, sounded very different from what we're used to today sometimes.

@54032Zepol

4 ай бұрын

It sounds more French don't it?

@RadioactiveEggplant

4 ай бұрын

It is, it's undergoing what's called the Low Back Merger Shift, resulting from the COT-CAUGHT merger. The shift is roughly /ɪ/->/ɛ/->/æ/->/a/. Californian accents also undergo a similar vowel shift but in addition they front the GOOSE, GOAT, and STRUT vowels like Southerners.

Enjoyed this. I'm currently researching accent bias and a quote that stood out to me and I believe relates to this video: “if one may prophesy, broadcasting will do more than anything else to standardise English pronunciation all over the British Isles” … “a form of speech which will take them [people from remote districts] anywhere” (W. Grant, 1925).

This subject I find fascinating. I notice myself changing my accent depending on my audience. I live in the south east of the UK as well. I find that if I’m with people using a mostly ‘London’ or even ‘Cockney’, my accent shifts to match theirs - totally subconsciously. Being married to an American also puts into sharper relief any slight accent changes I may have. Language is a form of communication: that may be blindingly obvious but the goal of most communication is to effectively convey information to a particular audience. And in that respect, social cues might cause one to alter - possibly imperceptibly - the timbre or pitch of a vowel, maybe as a form of emphasis or de-emphasis. There’s also a form of negative feedback. “BBC” English of the 1970s was pronounced very differently, and perhaps as a result of a wish to disassociate oneself from the values of 50 years ago, people might try to deliberately avoid having a similar accent. Anyway, I’ll go and try and work out why PIN is different from SPIN now :-)

Not annoying in the slightest, in my view. Thank you for maintaining this channel.

Very interesting! I find accents and how and why they change fascinating. I have 4 kids, and a few years ago I noticed they and their friends were saying certain words in a way that sounded really strange to me. They pronounce “mountain” and similar words like “fountain” by completely dropping the “t” sound: moun-en, foun-en. We live 3 hours south of where I grew up (in Virginia in the United States), but I think it’s more of a generational than regional change because I don’t notice other adults here using those pronunciations.

This video brings to mind a video I watched recently from another KZreadr, King Ming Lam, regarding Dutch and German dialogue that sounds like English. Of course, the time interval of change from German to English is greater, but the comparison of vowel shifting and alteration of consonant pronunciation are similar. And so fascinating. Thank you for sharing your "unqualified" opinions. Eventually, if one is interested and considers and studies a thing enough, and whether one has a certificate or not, one can become an expert, regardless of what others may say.

A single sound may vary in the speech of the same person even in the same context, of course. In the 1951 film "Scrooge," there is a scene in which Tiny Tim says the word "goose" twice, once fronting the "oo" and once not, I forget in which order. I'm sure this was unintentional. (I already mentioned this in a comment to another video. I'm not sure whether it was one of yours or not.)

@pauldavisthefirst

4 ай бұрын

There's an amazing YT video about Idris Elba's accent, that includes an example of a single sentence in which he says "hospital" once with an h-drop and once without. When you start thinking about the cognitive machinery required for such a thing, it is mind boggling.

I love how thorough you are at examining your own cognition & communication. It's a great example for any of us who need to slow down and dive deep.

I like this style of video. It's interesting to think about why and how sound change happens.

Fascinating as always! Thanks

I happen to like these types of videos of yours very much. You explain this stuff such that even a layperson like me can understand it. Very interesting.

Ramble on, Simon. I can listen to anything you put out. I also like your random bits of garden birds, plants, spiders and what not. Regarding vowel shifts, as an older person I know I tend to use a perhaps outdated way of pronunciation, and it catches me out when I sometimes find myself saying something the way younger people would. It feels strange that even how I pronounce some words has changed over my lifetime with the vowel shift you describe (not counting the changes that occurred because I moved to a different county and I absorbed bits of the local accent).

Don't find this style remotely annoying, one of my favorite things about your channel is how many videos feel like sitting down with a friend to talk about linguistics, which feels more easeful and charming than super-structured edited-to-a-higher-power videos. Super interesting. I'm often noticing that I choose pretty different vowels for the last sound in 'thank you', ranging from what I think is my native standard 'oo' sound to a pretty extreme ü kind-of sound, and trying to figure out on what basis I change this vowel since the choice seems to happen automatically but I suspect it has to do with how I feel about the person and how I want to come across in that moment. Very curious about this and the phenomenon in general

When I entered the professional world, I became very conscious of sounds I used differently than others. Others commented that I pronounced "about" like a Canadian for example. I'm assuming that meant I was rounding the ou or something like that, but it made me very consciously alter my dialect to fit in professionally.

@stephanieparker1250

4 ай бұрын

Interesting. Reminds me of when I discovered that some people from the south take elocution lessons to try and erase their accent. 🤔

Years ago my mum and I took a break from lunch at an English Literature university summer school in the midlands. The ovrrall accent of the other students was wall to wall RP and incredibly boring to listen to en masse. Im from Lancashire and mum grew up a Cockney. We needed a break from the beige and banality. Its like the these nice middle class people were using a script. We found a little local cafe and our ears were refreshed. We noted later that the 4 local women and the man running the cafe each had a slightly different accent. Plus they had spoken quickly, laughed a lot, were cheekily rude to each other. In fact the sort of interactions we were used to in our northern town. But it was only then that I realised that we each have our own way of speaking. I wonder if the uber politeness and predictability of the more middle class public speech is kept just for formal situations.

Informative and enjoyable, as always. I like the casual, informal feel of your videos. Like we sitting around having a chat. 🤗

Always a pleasure. Thank you.

There’s no pleasure quite like the pleasure of encountering answers, finally, to a question you’ve carried with you your whole life. I have wondered about accent change for decades, and had pieced together some of what you present here, but not so thoroughly nor so tidily. Thanks so much! As an aside, I have been noticing goose-fronting (I imitate it while watching tv, because I like it) but, not being English, I hadn’t realized it was fairly new. Now I know why it’s only in the last-I don’t know, decade?-that it’s gotten my attention.

@enricobianchi4499

4 ай бұрын

In some speakers there's even been phonetic splits of back vowels that come before L. So you might have the same speaker that, depending on the word, either fronts or doesn't front the GOOSE or GOAT vowels. Look out for it!

I love the conversational style! Keep it up!

Your channel was a random recommendation from KZread, but it’s turned out to be one of the most fascinating subjects I’ve ever come across. Is there a single, popular, book that you could recommend that touches on the many things you talk about? Something a beginner could delve into to find out more on the evolution of English, with reference to regional dialects? Looking forward to watching more of your talks.

These are my favorite kind of videos from you.

I really liked this video, and found it particularly easy to watch

I've been thinking recently about some of the things I say. In particular "I'ma" and "gonna" have been on my mind. I probably code-switch to "I'm going to" or "going to" when talking to older people, like my parents, but around my contemporaries I suspect the way I use these corruptions would be indistinguishable from new words or contractions. It's interesting to think how younger people perceive these expressions. It's easy to imagine the sounds being the same, but the perception being different.

Good ramble, thoroughly enjoyable

Your small anecdote about small changes in accent when talking to new people is something I find myself doing occasionally. Great video as always!

Love this presentation style

This is your style which I prefer, as long as it is about language. I don't particularly like the long lists of words that you present in many videos. I say keep mixing it up so that everyone gets some of what they like.

Good question

The disclaimer at the beginning is the reason you’re one of the better creators on this platform. Keep up the good work! Look forward to watching this video with my late night snack lol

Simon, I love this cenversational style, it's easy on the ear and brings you closer. I do have a question for you as well: why is the vowel shift that's happening in the South East of England called 'anti clockwise'? Living in the South West, I'm not very affected by it I don't think, but why anti clockwise? I baffles me! 🤔😀

@herghamoo3242

4 ай бұрын

It is common to represent (in diagrams, tables etc.) the different vowels as an abstraction of a mouth pointing leftwards. So front vowels (e.g. i, ee, e, a) are on the left and back vowels (e.g. oo, o, aw) on the right. So when the low a moves backwards, or to the right, and the high oo moves forwards, or to the left, it looks like anti-clockwise movement under this convention.

I like the introspective nature of this video. Please do more.

Was good. Thanks, Simon.

All your videos are great! Many years ago I borrowed a random old book on sociolinguistics from a friend and it was so interesting! Did/ does mass media effect linguistic change? Radio, TV and the internet? Will the internet lead to changes in the written language? 'You're' becoming 'Your,' for example? Or 'There' and 'Their' becoming interchangeable? Would you consider a video about language isolates, in general, with a couple of examples and how they came to be, please? 🤠💜

@enricobianchi4499

4 ай бұрын

Confusion between spellings in this case has absolutely nothing to do with phonology. The two pairs of words have sounded identical for a very, very long time. On the Internet there's simply no teacher grading you on your command of the awkward English spelling system.

@LimeyRedneck

4 ай бұрын

​​@@enricobianchi4499 I didn't mention phonology, however the pairings are homophones. The internet has already had words entered into standard English dictionaries. Frequency of use and all that, what with English being a big presence online. There are plenty of people (both with English as a first, or as a subsequent language) who confuse these words on- and offline, with or without teachers present. 'Your' I think because it's a contraction, as well as a homophone. With the frequency with which the two pairings are confused, I wondered if they might also make it into dictionaries as a secondary spelling.

@enricobianchi4499

4 ай бұрын

@@LimeyRedneck "Your" is not a contraction. "You're" is. :^) There's simply no reason that an English speaker should perceive two homophonous, semantically similar, etymologically related, irregular, and complementarily distributed words as two separate words at all. Or any anything speaker really.

@LimeyRedneck

4 ай бұрын

@@enricobianchi4499 I meant a contraction in the sense of fewer characters, 'your' Vs 'you're.' Not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying 'you're' doesn't need to exist at all because 'your' does? Ok. Nothing to do with what I said in my original comment. If you think I was criticising anyone, I wasn't. It was a thought that I was putting to Simon, or anyone who had thoughts to offer. If I felt that languages should never change, then I probably wouldn't be here as often as I am. Anyhow, judging by your other comments you know this stuff in more technical detail than me, so I'll retire now before I get pwned.

@mesechabe

4 ай бұрын

I thought English for over 20 years and junior college level, and I always thought that the confusion of your and your was a matter of not paying attention. Like any ordinary spelling error, it leaked over into usage.

Thanks Simon. I also enjoyed the pace and style of this video. I hope you can continue to bring philology to us unwashed masses. It occurs to me, we humans have built an amazing formalism on top of primate grunts, howls and hisses. What kind of formalism is so informal it won't stay still?

It sort of seems like the reason behind this if I could think about it as a useful trait in our behaviours as opposed to some strange quirk, id say maintaining social cohesion is the biggest benefit. I'm an american from the praries, moved to eastern ontario 6 years ago. I without a doubt sound canadian. All of my friends are either canadians themselves or have also adopted this accent. While I take pride in my american accent, I cant help but find it appealing to want to sound like those around me, like you said you feel more "socially tuned in". Even if the accents arent incredibly different, my parents are always quick to point it out whenever I return home for christmas. As time ticks on and you get older, the younger generations, and different classes may want to find ways of differentiating themselves from other cliques and demographics by finding it more appealing to change the way they pronounce certain words. Those around them will catch up the same way everyone in a friend group will end up quoting the same movies or inside jokes, and those who speak the same way sort of can *pass the social litmus test*. When one of those social groups or demographics become big or desirable enough for everyone else to find it appealing to speak like them, you have a proper accent on your hands. when this happens enough times and the bracket progresses far enough you end up with distinct languages.

I like all your videos, Simon. This kind feels more... real? I like education and conversation both. Keep doing what you do.

I like this conversational style of video!

It would be interesting to hear you cover differences in male and female regional accents. To someone born in Liverpool in the 60’s, it’s jarring to hear actors “doing” a Scouse accent as they often get it wrong because they don’t recognise the distinction eg: the words “go” or “hello”would be pronounced very differently by a man or woman. A classic example would be Julie Walters in Educating Rita; she was praised for her accent but it’s way off a lot of the time. Similarly, the guy who plays her husband tends to use more feminine sounds.

@argonwheatbelly637

2 ай бұрын

She was getting the rhyme wrong. 😊

You spoke quite a bit in this video about generational and class influences on accent. Closely related, I'd like to hear you comment on the importance (or not) of various influential individuals. Two of the most frequently-cited possible examples of this are (a) test pilot Chuck Yeager (first man to break the sound barrier in the 1950s) as influencing the speech of most pilots and air traffic controllers, and (b) the Castilian Spanish lisped "s" as originating when various courtiers imitated a Spanish king's lisp.

@enricobianchi4499

4 ай бұрын

The latter is easily verifiable as made up since /θ/ and /s/ have always coexisted as separate phonemes with separate orthographization in all varieties of Spanish that have /θ/. I don't think a language without [s] even exists come to think of it.

@pawel198812

4 ай бұрын

​@@enricobianchi4499Hawaiian as well as several other Polynesian languages lack an 's' phoneme. Apparently, the Proto-Polynesian 's' weakened to 'h'

@enricobianchi4499

4 ай бұрын

@@pawel198812 Interesting. I'd guess there's probably some sibilants phonetically still. edit: oh wow no

@talideon

4 ай бұрын

That second bit regarding the origin of distinción is a myth. It had nothing to do with a king with a lisp and was just a chain of sound changes that happened in central and northern Spain, but not to the same degree in Andalusia. 15th century Spanish had a large sibilant and affricate inventory, and differences in how retracted the sibilants were caused them to collapse in different ways. If you want the details, read one of Ralph Penny's books on Spanish.

@pawel198812

4 ай бұрын

@@enricobianchi4499 S weakens to h more often than one might think. Intervocalic and initial s weakened to h (and later disappeared) in Greek. In many varieties of Spanish coda s weakens to h and sometimes disappears completely while also affecting the quality of the preceding vowel or following consonant. However, since sibilants are very distinctive sounds, they often remain at least in some positions or reappear as a result of lenition of coronal stops and affricates

The anticlockwise vowel shift is also happening in Australian English! For us, it also seems to be pretty much an age difference rather than a class difference, however there is a divide created between rural and urban people depending on how far their chain shift has progressed. I’ve talked about it a few times on my channel, but it definitely holds connotations here about identity; or rather, NOT having it holds connotations.

@godfreypigott

4 ай бұрын

I've been teaching in Australia for 36 years, and I can't say I've noticed any change in accent in that time.

@mariannehepple4907

4 ай бұрын

@@godfreypigott Australian and NZ accents used to be much more similar 50-100 years ago. Or perhaps just the cultivated variety?

@godfreypigott

4 ай бұрын

@@mariannehepple4907 Then it's more likely that the NZ accent has changed. I do recall not being able to notice a difference, then suddenly being able to tell them apart in my 20s.

@mariannehepple4907

4 ай бұрын

@@godfreypigott NZ English has changed under the Maori influence and dare I say it the American. Broad Nuzild and Broad Strine are certainly miles apart now!

@godfreypigott

4 ай бұрын

@@mariannehepple4907 I don't think broad strine is really spoken in the cities now (or at least not here in the northern half of Sydney). So that's probably been the biggest change in Australia ... a change in the distribution of the accents rather than the accents themselves.

As a psychotherapist, I wonder if the sense of social lubrication that you / we feel when we perform the sound change is that we are demonstrating fluency or familiarity with culture. That is, we have heard the shift enough times to incorporate it into our behaviour. This is evidence, if you like, of being someone who engages in social interaction. It’s like turning up at a party in the ‘right’ clothes - or at least not the jarringly wrong ones. So it’s an in-group cultural signifier, which are often extremely subtle but nonetheless powerful.

I would love you to do a video on the Hull accent. It is a unique accent with lots of words not found anywhere else in the UK

Another Simon Roper banger

I think even 'code-switching' between dialects according to the context is largely subconscious

I like this style because you e.g. raise and discuss different things contributing to your thoughts. Also like your other videos. Change it up, do what interests you, generally all works for me, and others here seem to get enough out of them too.

I'm not a linguist, so I do not have the right jargon, but could it be that most languages make slightly more sounds than can be clearly or easily distinguished from each other? If so, then the sound system would be unstable, with the least distinct or least easy-to-pronounce pairs of sounds wanting to change so as to be more easily distinguished or easier to pronounce, but by shifting it triggers a chain reaction, except that the chain reaction never ends, because when any given shift "improves" part of the sound system, it makes other parts "worse".

@rdreher7380

4 ай бұрын

For "not a linguist" you have a good intuition, and your idea is on the right track. One of thing things that shapes language change is a dynamic interplay between the needs of the speaker and needs of the listener. Carefully distinguishing two close sounds requires more care on the part of the speaker, but makes the distinction more readily registered in the ears of the listener. This kind of thing is what motivates chain shifts, like the Great Vowel shift, or Grimm's law. For example, somewhere along the branch of PIE that became Proto-Germanic, the /bʰ/ phoneme started to be said more and more the same as the /b/ phoneme, because the detail of the aspiration was being dropped. Not fussing over this distinction would have made speech smoother for the speaker, but slightly harder on the listener. Thus, motivated by the need to preserve clarity, the /b/ phoneme started to be said more like /p/, and then the /p/ phoneme started to be said more like /f/. This is at least one probable explanation of what caused this chain shift, part of Grimm's Law, and in general this is the kind of dynamics that we think cause chain shifts. The idea that all languages have an excess of distinctive phonemes is an interesting thought. In general, languages, just like computer codes, employ a kind of "error correction," when you're speaking in noisy environments etc. The difference between the word "bid" and "bit," in my own dialect at least, is not simply the difference between the voicing of /d/ and the lack of voicing on /t/. The vowels are also slightly different, the /ɪ/ sound being ever so slightly longer before the /d/. These kinds of "Redundant features" are important. There tends to be a pattern: languages like English have a large phonemic inventory (lots of distinctions in the sounds we use) but short words. Italian or Japanese have much smaller phonemic inventories but longer words. For example, we can have a lot of mono-syllabic words that differ only in their vowel: beat, bit, bait, bet, bat, boot, but, boat, bot, etc. Japanese, on the other hand, has only 5 vowels, so they need more syllables to create disinvite words. If you think about this, maybe the idea that all languages have "more sounds" than they need isn't quite right, if by "sounds" you mean distinctive consonants and vowels (phonemes), but that they will always have more of one way of making distinctions than they theoretically need, and less of others. Mandarin has four tonal distinctions, English has none. Italian or Japanese allows for gemination (double consonants) to distinguish words, English does not. Russian has way more consonant distinctions than English, but only six vowels. And so forth.

This is fascinating, I’d love to hear more about how sound change is occurring today, the anticlockwise vowel shift thing is probably something I do likewise to you, having grown up in the north but now living in the south, but I’ll have to pay more attention to how I speak to really notice

Your audience are nice people, I like how their pictures are of themselves, their pets, or their favorite calculus textbooks. BIG MONEY This shot at humor makes me think about the aspirational accent. I wonder if it is in a funny way the purest accent because of all the participants. I suppose you could set up a field that would be both satirical and accurate with one of those 3-d graphs that come with Excel ((-sounds like work))

I've been trying to find an answer two years why sounds change in the way they do, thank you

Definitely not annoying, please ramble more!

another certified simon roper banger

I enjoyed this video a lot

Thank you.

Local dialects have a pass it on effect. Your dad says circle without the Kay and you grow up saying sirtle. Sounds ridiculous but I’ve experienced it from people in Lancashire and Yorkshire.

@philroberts7238

4 ай бұрын

Interesting! 'Sirtle' sounds to my (Southern) ears more Northumbrian, but I might easily be wrong.

I'd be interested to know what you think drives the direction of vowel chain shifts? because in Australia and new Zealand for example front vowels move in a clockwise direction (if I remember correctly) love your videos! I never miss an upload :)

I subconsciously shift my accent when talking to people from other places. It's not intentional, but I'm usually stuck in the last accent I heard for a while. It makes my kids giggle. Once they start speaking to me, my accent shifts back to theirs. Certain phrases I say do not change, and it depends upon where I heard it mostly, e.g. teacher from London, uncle from Liverpool, friend from Newcastle, etc.

Just had to chime in and say I enjoy your rambly / conversational videos, you always give good insights but I think this style of video allows you to be more broad which is a good way to add further context - just my opinion of course :)

i moved to a city with an accent very different from mine for university and now 3 years in i’ve noticed that even though i’ve made it a point to retain my native accent i use something closer to the local accent when giving presentations or talking to a professor. it has to be a subconscious process too because i’m unable to do it on command, but it happens naturally in certain social situations

@vicentefonseca9868

4 ай бұрын

i also use a third hybrid mutated accent only with my partner who has a different accent from mine. we both use it but i don’t think it’s similar to either of our accents

comment about the notion of the telephone voice: everybody has a phone voice. I thought it was interesting, though that my African-American students always referred to that as their “white voice.“ So that’s another of Code switching, but it’s also about the register, even a higher or lower voice than normal speaking voice. Sorrt of like the one I’m using now. it even extends to recordings!

Rural West Virginian here. I don't think my accent is significantly different from my grandparents' but my vocabulary is: I never use the word "yonder", for example.

@argonwheatbelly637

2 ай бұрын

"I think the children are playing in the backyard." "Kids are playing back yonder, reckon." Not an accent; it's dialect.

Rambly videos are what I enjoy most

Just came across this little film from 1979. The accents are interesting. I guess the latter couple are from Lincolnshire but I detect twangs of East Riding. The first woman is interesting for her consciously clear, educated accent.

Great!

Usually people change hard consonant sound to a soft one (b-p, d-t, z-s etc) at the end of a word, when there is no vowel after it. But sometimes it happend even at the beggining. For example, sometime I hear people say (almost) "kuy" instead of "guy".

I suspect climate might make some contribution, people walking with heads down to avoid wind and rain will surely make different noises and this can be prolonged over little Ice Ages etc. Speaking in different accents to fit in is sensible. My clients are of diverse nations and find it easier to understand RP so I use that for work but speak according to those I am speaking with when in South Wales Vallys or Gogledd localy. Allways interesting to have you give a Fireside chat in a nice shirt even without bird action

I found it quite interesting -- I liked it 👍👍

My understanding is that a language is not like a building that can stand there for many years. It’s taught and learned from person to person, from generation to generation. Imagine a game: 10 people line up. Pass a random sound or word from one person to the next. The outcome from the last person is usually not as same as the initial sound. That is sound change in an extreme setup. Real languages are more stable because they are passed from a group of people to another group. But the gist is the same.

I'm a chameleon. I instinctively take on the "protective coloration" of the accent where I live. I have an East Coast Educated accent in general, but having lived in western Pennsylvania, Illinois, South Carolina, New Jersey, Michigan, Virginia and Long Island (New York) by the age of 20, and then lived in Southern California for 41 years and far West Texas for 5 years, and currently living near San Diego, my accent has been forged in the crucible of all that's American.

I rather like the rambling style - it comes across as a genuine introspection into the ideas

I definitely experience the accent change around people when I speak French. I usually use a trilled r when i talk, but around people i dont know that well i find myself using a uvular trill a lot more especially if they also use it great video by the way!

We often talk about vowel shifts but do consonants ever change?

ive always wanted to know about how sound changes happen, thisl be fun

There is currently a relativly large sound change happening where im from (central kentucky) due, i believe mostly, to migration down from the rustbelt and over from the more eastern part of the state. My hometown is the headquarters of Toyota North America and has the largest Toyota plan on the continents so has defently had more impact from migration than other towns, but it does seem to be a gernal trend among youths in other towns within a hundred miles or so. I believe the change was innitated by people moving from the rustbelt where they have more "general american" like accents, which is percived as more intelligent. People from appalachia either also have accents approaching general american, in the very north, or have very distinct accents. Anecdotally speaking from the experience of relatives of mine, there is a pressure for folks with stronger appalachian accents to change how they speak because of a perception of lower intelligence. Third i think the expesting locals (mostly in town proper) experienced this same pressure. Ive found that individuals that are children of transplants above 30 seem to more frequently have a closer to traditional local accent while almost everyone under 30 has a vauguly indiana-ohio accent with a few regional features such as use of "yall / you all" but yall as the second person plural seems to be more common among youths across north america.

Loving the new thumbnail design. Please consider applying it to your back catalogue!

Very enjoyable video. I look forward to your videos as I love language and at age 74 there is so much for me to learn… I just wish I’d studied earlier😃👍

ah, my favourite topic!