I pray for the catholic church to have people that can teach, explain and defend our beliefs that way God wants it to be.

@richardkasper5822

26 күн бұрын

Divine Mercy Shrine has a series of lectures called back to seminary by Fr Alar. He goes in depth on all things Catholic and I have learned much. They have a daily mass at 9 am everyday of the year.

@loso6940

24 күн бұрын

That's nice. What we need in the church is those lectures directed at the community. Not everyone could afford going to a catholic school. And even those that did, think their presence at church is enough to get to heaven. Or just going to church once a year on Easter. We need more people that know how to explain, teach and defend our teachings so we all have a solid foundation when we confront these other people with their false teachings from their cults or those that have gone astray.

@loso6940

24 күн бұрын

I've been subscribed for a while now.

Tobit 12:12 Angel Raphael to Tobit “Tobit, when you and Sarah prayed to the Lord, I was the one who brought your prayers into his glorious presence. I did the same thing each time you buried the dead.”

Love Jimmy Akin. We always pray for him and his late wife.🙏🏼💕

If Jimmy says it, I believe it. His explanations are easy to follow and he gives enough background information to support his response. I am most grateful he started this channel. It's another "tool" in my "tool box" that helps me better understand my faith. Thank you, Jimmy!!!

@user-fi1pe4dg3u

Ай бұрын

I rather listen to what the bible says

@joachim847

Ай бұрын

Jimmy says it, I believe it, that settles it 😊

@user-fi1pe4dg3u

Ай бұрын

@@joachim847 I hope God opens your eyes to you and Jimmy. Before you face God.

@joachim847

Ай бұрын

@@user-fi1pe4dg3u Well... harumph! 🤬 I'll be a fundamental Akinist if I wanna!

You’re addressing the possibility objection, not the efficiency objection. It goes like, maybe praying to Saints works, but why not just pray to Jesus. If the prayer of a righteous person is efficient, then surely Jesus was the most righteous person. The efficiency answer can be found on Joe Heschmeyer’s channel. It goes like: God often achieves good ends through secondary causes. One example is royal kings. Kings send their ministers to handle negotiations as a display of power. In the same way, God sends his angels and Saints to display his glory. In the same vein, it is in our nature to want to commune not just with God, but with those in communion with God.

@atrifle8364

Ай бұрын

The answer can be found in other places too

On the KZread show Relatable, hosted by Allie Beth Stuckey, her guest was author and Catholic apologist Trent Horn. He attempted to explain the practice of prayers to saints. Allie Beth is a Baptist and still did not understand.

@michele-33

Ай бұрын

Trent was way to easy on her. She was very disrespectful of Catholicism and the Blessed Mother. She needs an interview with Sam Shamoun 😊 ps: I'm always amazed that prots think the Church was wrong for over 1,000 years :)

@rubemartur8239

Ай бұрын

People ARE INDEED distant from the doctrine of the apostles from 1900 years Ago and they are re-doing the Wheel. Of course they cannot relate If they dont accept proper understand from the bible, with the comunism of Saints, the expression of God's Grace by sacraments exposed in bible... Everyone told the gospel before ALL gospels and letters were compiled, people dont think much about that... Bible come from tradition enlightened by Holy Spirit.

@ekatrinya

Ай бұрын

I have noticed how disrespectful and snooty people get about Catholicism and I didn't expect the smirks and looks of superiority from Allie Beth but I guess it's hard to avoid. I was once a little like that before my conversion.

Prayer to the Saints is one of the Greatest Blessings of the Catholic Church. The Saints are already in Heaven and their prayers are so much stronger than mine.

@bullyboy131

Ай бұрын

Orthodox Church does it as well

@dalelerette206

Ай бұрын

@@bullyboy131 And I deeply respect the Orthodox. We are the two lungs of the Same Church in my informed opinion. ❤

Hey, Jimmy. I want to run one of my arguments for this by you if you're willing to read and assess it. I know you're busy so I won't be upset if you don't. I think that we, the sinners here on earth, don't want salvation. We are of two minds and while on the surface we may want what God has to offer, deep down we want pleasure and satisfaction. So, when we pray since we are of two minds, God would likely disregard our prayer. The Saints however being fully righteous and loving us with perfect charity truly desire our salvation, so when they pray for us, they get what they ask for. God bless you, Jimmy. Thanks for another excellent video.

You can't get more righteous if your already in heaven 🕊

Thanks Jimmy! 🙏🏻

I really enjoy these vignettes! Keep them coming. Thanks Jimmy!!

Amen 🙏 God bless you brother in Christ, Jimmy Akin. Thank you for defending our Catholic faith ❤

Saints can do things, here on earth too, when they are permitted...

Thank you Jimmy

Thanks, Jimmy!

Thank you Mr.Akin.

Jimmy The GOAT 🐐

Thanks for these super helpful answers!

Best. Explanation. Ever. The title had me a little worried but this is so solid, it is a video I can send to my Catholic friends who's language makes me a little uneasy, and my protestant friends, who think we are crazy!

Great content

I was taught about the intercession of the saints in heaven while still in the Anglican tradition (many years ago...not sure what they teach now!).

Thanks.

❤❤❤

❤

Thanks for the explanation

Thank you

👍🙏

The likely retort of non Catholics would probably be " but the saints are dead!"

@josephhaddas5707

Ай бұрын

I always find this argument to be very silly. If anything they are more alive than we are.

@philipmarchalquizar7741

Ай бұрын

Any bible verse that they are dead?

@atgred

Ай бұрын

@@philipmarchalquizar7741They’ll use Ecclesiastes 9:5 “For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.” Prior to the resurrection of Jesus, all the dead were in Sheol, and after the Resurrection the righteous were brought to heaven. The author of Ecclesiastes is writing within the context of all the dead being in Sheol. In Jewish tradition, Sheol was a shadowy place where the dead awaited judgment. The full revelation of heaven had not yet occurred (Heb 1:1-2). The Jewish concept of Sheol developed over time and can’t be locked into any one Bible verse. We must also take into account the context of Ecclesiastes. The book is written from a very human-centric point of view. It is written almost as if by a human bystander to the events of life and records the appearance of things rather than their ultimate reality.

@turbonis1

Ай бұрын

@@josephhaddas5707 their next argument is they are not omniscient/omnipresent to hear prayers all around the globe.

@rouxmain934

Ай бұрын

This is the worst argument they could bring and it only proves that the person saying never bothered to wrestle with the Catholic argument. The smart protestant will say "even if the saints are alive in Heaven, I fear committing idolatry by praying them to pray for me". Or "even if it's right to pray the saints, why would I pray the saints when I can pray to God?".

Why do we ask anyone for anything? Because man is not an island. God often and frequently bestows graces on us through others. Our very lives originate in the love between our parents, and their care and nature as we develop. Praying or beseeching others is the plan throughout our lives. It is how we first learned the Gospel, through the beseeching of the message through the lips or pen of another person. Love between people is primarily communicated through this rhythm of asking and providing, beseeching (praying) and showing mercy. It's not just about 'you and Jesus.' You were baptized into a Church. You as a member of Christ have duties and responsibilities toward your bros and sisters in Christ as well as toward God Himself. Prayer is how we primarily communicate with members of the Body who are with Christ in heaven. When someone dies, they still exist. They are still members of the body of Christ, which is eternal. Death has no power over the love that obtains between members of His One Body! God forbid. Jesus is not in competition with the saints. We are all party of one Family of God. When we love our bros and sisters in Christ, we love God. Christ destroyed death, and thank God for it.

Great vid

Interesting.

What about a prayer like this one - “O Little Therese of the Child Jesus, please pick a rose for me from the heavenly gardens, and send it to me as a message of love.”

@RebeccaLynne2046

29 күн бұрын

I love this prayer! St. Therese is my patron saint ❤

@krizilloo2538

29 күн бұрын

@@RebeccaLynne2046 Did you ever get a flower?

@RebeccaLynne2046

29 күн бұрын

@krizilloo2538 No, but I've been praying the last couple of months about a very serious and scary life changing decision I have to make. The day I finally made the choice, I was at Mass in a church I've never been to, praying to St. Therese and begging God to show me I've made the right decision or to please stop me. A man I didn't know walked across the church to me afterward to ask if I knew what a first-class relic was. I said yes. He wanted to show me his and pulled out of his pocket a chain with the most beautiful gold encased relic of St. Therese. The tears! Well, I feel like that was my answer. I don't know what religion you are, but strangers don't just walk up to you in a Catholic church and start talking, not even in the south, lol. That day was May 17th, which I later realized was the day St. Therese was canonized in 1925. Have you ever received a flower?

As a fellow Catholic, I agree that the language could be better. I know our definition of prayer is different than the Protestant's version (it's not sacrificial or for worship)... but why make it difficult and use language like "pray to" to begin with? For example, this is taken from our CCC 2679: "Mary is the perfect Orans (pray-er), a figure of the Church. When we pray TO HER, we are adhering with her to the plan of the Father, who sends his Son to save all men."

Catholics never answer this Q well. Basic answer is Catholics are a communion of souls dead and alive. We live our spiritual life with the Holy Spirit. We are one Body on earth and in heaven. We act together. Catholics spend our entire spiritual lives speaking of and living with god’s love. Protestants barely speak of gods love for anything.

@WayneDrake-uk1gg

Ай бұрын

Very true. Unfortunately, this is almost impossible to answer for Protestants because they've been brainwashed since childhood that Catholics are idolaters who are literally worshipping Saints

Rachel interceded for her children of Israel, as she was their spiritual mother, the moon of the Old Covenant: “Thus says the Lord: “A voice was heard in Ramah, Lamentation and bitter weeping, Rachel weeping for her children, Refusing to be comforted for her children, Because they are no more.” Thus says the Lord: “Refrain your voice from weeping, And your eyes from tears; For your work shall be rewarded, says the Lord, And they shall come back from the land of the enemy. There is hope in your future, says the Lord, That your children shall come back to their own border.” ‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31‬:‭15‬-‭17‬

@bombastoid

Ай бұрын

Interesting citation. But it says she prayed for her children, not to her children. She prayed to God for her children, not to the departed saints for her children. The point of Akin's words here is why Catholics pray to saints. The passage you cited is unrelated to the question Akin is addressing.

@HellenicCatholic

Ай бұрын

@@bombastoid Rachel was Jacob’s wife, the mother of Joseph and Benjamin from Genesis. She’s been bodily dead for over a thousand years at this point, so her weeping /for/ her children in paradise is exactly how we describe the saints and Mary interceding and praying /for/ us now in Heaven. And look, the Father listened to her and said “your [Rachel’s] work shall be rewarded,” and help her children of Israel from the Babylonians.

@bombastoid

Ай бұрын

​@@HellenicCatholic I see what you're saying. But in this video, Akin is trying to explain why Catholics pray to saints. There is a difference between departed saints in glory interceding for us and Catholics/Christians praying to departed saints. I believe saints such as Rachel, Moses, etc. can intercede for human beings still living out their earthly pilgrimage. However, I have yet to find a passage or reasonable justification that supports the practice of PRAYING TO saints. In the passage you provided, Rachel is PRAYING FOR her children, interceding for them TO GOD, NOT TO THE SAINTS. She is PRAYING TO GOD, NOT to THE SAINTS. Akin's words concern the latter (praying to the saints).

@HellenicCatholic

Ай бұрын

@@bombastoid Rabbinic tradition actually says that the reason Jacob buried Rachel in Gen. 35:16-20 is because "Jacob foresaw that the exiles would pass on from thence, therefore he buried her _so that she might pray mercy for them"_ (Genesis Rabbah 82:10). Down through the centuries, Jews, Christians, and Muslims have come to regard the traditional site of Rachel's tomb near the city of Bethlehem as a holy place of prayer. (In the twentieth century, we even have records of Jews visiting Rachel's tomb to light candles and ask for her prayers!)(see Strickert, _Rachel Weeping,_ 123-127) And in the ancient rabbinic commentaries, Rachel is depicted not just as the "matriarch" of her people but as the _most powerful intercessor_ on behalf of Israel. For example, in one tradition; both Abraham and Moses come to God weeping and pleading for Israel after the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem, but God does not answer their prayers (Lamentations Rabbah 24)! (Freedman and Simon, _Midrash Rabbah,_ 2:761) It is only when the "matriarch Rachel" intercedes with God on behalf of the sinful people that he responds in Jer. 31:15-16.

@HellenicCatholic

Ай бұрын

@@bombastoid And it’s also biblical that we pray to the saints. We are “saints” (holy, set-apart) here on Earth, I’d imagine you’d agree? What are our prayers like to God? “Let *my **_prayer_** be counted as **_incense_** before thee,* and the lifting up of my hands as an evening sacrifice!” ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭141‬:‭2‬ ‭ Our prayers are like incense. And among everywhere from the world, saints will be offering prayers/incense: “For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and *in every place **_incense is offered_** to my name,* and a pure offering; for my name is great among the nations, says the Lord of hosts.” ‭‭Malachi‬ ‭1‬:‭11‬ Knowing this, God commanded King Abimelech, in a dream, to *ask* Abraham to *intercede* for him: “For [Abraham] is a prophet and he will pray for you, so you shall live” (Gen. 20:7). When the Lord is angry with Job’s friends because they did not speak rightly about God, he tells them, “Let my servant Job pray for you because I will accept his [prayer], lest I make a terror on you” (Job 42:8). In Romans, Paul wrote: “I exhort you, brothers, through our Lord Jesus Christ and through the love of the Spirit, to strive with me *_in prayers to God on my behalf,_* that I may be delivered from the disobedient in Judaea,” (Rom. 30-31) So God wants us to have righteous people pray for us instead, and as James puts it, *_”The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects”_* (James 5:16-17). Here’s what’s happening in Heaven: John saw in Rev. 4:10, 5:8, 6:9-11 saints worshipping God, singing hymns, playing instruments, making requests to Christ to avenge their martyrdom, and offering prayers for the saints on earth.

you are the bomb

Wehre's that catchy song I used to listen to ten or fifteen years ago before your videos started? TU-DU-DU-Tu DUMMM, TUDUM, TUMTUMTU-DU-DU-D-DUMM

I have no idea? My grandmother used to pray to her wicker shopping basket if that helps anyone

@kimfleury

25 күн бұрын

Who is her wicker shopping basket? Keyword: Who. If you want to compare deceased people with wicker shopping baskets, then remember that the characterization applies to your dead Mama, too. And nobody should be talking about anyone's Mama, Daddy, child, Aunt, Uncle, cousin, or any other loved one of someone that way. The Saints were mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, cousins, and children of their parents. J's.

Like

We don’t.

Asking someone to pray on earth is not the equivalent to asking someone in heaven to pray. This was a false comparison. Saul went to Samuel on earth, but after his death when Saul went to him it was considered evil.

I am still searching for a biblical reference or example that explicitly shows a Christian praying to a departed saint in heaven. Again, when I say "praying to" I don't mean a third party overhearing someone's prayer and relaying it to God. I also do not mean examples where the Apostle Paul is asking believers to pray for him and others. Prayer is supposed to be between God and his children, nobody else. Akin said that praying and asking are synonymous, but are they in the context of prayer? I think there is a big difference between everyday conversation between people and prayer between believers and their heavenly Father. I believe that the departed saints know what is happening on earth. But I just need one clear example of a believer praying directly to such saints or asking them for help. Only when I see this will I agree that praying to the departed saints is okay with God.

@tafazziReadChannelDescription

Ай бұрын

Have you considered that Sola Scriptura might be false?

@bombastoid

Ай бұрын

@@tafazziReadChannelDescription I struggle with believing and accepting doctrines that I don't outright reject such as the trinity. So I use the Bible as well as reason when considering dogma or tradition. To me, praying to departed saints simply seems wrong and like it is displeasing to God. Praying to saints, to me, seems similar to the Lystrans mistaking Paul for Hermes and Barnabas for Zeus. When Jesus was transfigured, Saint Peter wanted to build shrines to Moses and Elijah but he was corrected. I think if the departed saints were able to communicate with humans, they would rebuke and correct Catholics who pray to them and instruct them to direct their prayers to God alone. I get uncomfortable when I'm told that believers can pray to saints. I have always been told and have read in the Bible that all prayer must be directed to God alone. But this doesn't mean I'm completely opposed to being convinced. So far I'm not convinced by any of the arguments I've encountered. However, I am almost convinced that the Catholic Church is the church that Jesus Christ founded. So, it's disappointing to encounter such confusing doctrines that don't seem either biblical or pleasing to God.

@ianmiller07

Ай бұрын

Okay so if I’m understanding you correctly, you believe the saints are aware of what is happening on earth just that asking for prayer isn’t correct?

@bombastoid

Ай бұрын

@@ianmiller07 Yes, I believe the departed saints are aware of events here on earth. I base this belief on what Hebrews 11 and 12 says about a cloud of witnesses, on Moses and Elijah appearing in Jesus' transfiguration, and on other passages in Revelation. Jesus also tells the Sadducees that God is the God of the living. I have seen Catholics cite this passage to support the doctrine of praying to the saints. They bring it up to rebut arguments Protestants make against communicating with the dead. I disagree with Protestants who argue this. I disagree with Catholics who use Jesus' words to "prove" it's okay to pray to the saints in glory because they are not dead. The dispute Jesus is having with the Sadducees has nothing to do with praying to the departed saints. Instead it revolves around the resurrection and the afterlife. At the moment I cannot accept nor believe that praying to the departed saints is okay with God. I have already presented my reasons for this.

@ianmiller07

29 күн бұрын

@@bombastoid Thank you for the reply. I appreciate that you do acknowledge that those in Heaven are alive and aware of what is happening on Earth, shown through passages like Hebrews 11 and 12, Revelation 5, 6, 7, and 8, as well as others. Your objection seems to be steeped that you don't have "one clear example of a believer praying directly to such saints or asking them for help." I think this objection is flawed. For instance, nowhere in Scripture does it say all beliefs must be explicitly be found in the Bible and, no, I'm not really talking about sola scriptura here (although I do disagree with that) because, by most defintions, even that doesn't hold things must be explicit. The belief in asking for the intercession of the saints is a theological conclusion from what is clearly shown in Scirpture, just like the Trinity. Furthermore, prayer is synonomous with asking in this specific context because all we are doing is asking the saints to pray for us which is different from prayer to God. Look forward to your response, blessings!

😬

Dear Jimmy, I am a Protestant. I understand the rationale behind asking saints to pray for us. But how do we ground Requesting to Saints for Prayers on scriptures ( as the scriptures are considered materially sufficient ) compared to verses which explicitly shows apostle Paul requesting prayers from believers in the land of the living?

@JimmyAkin

17 күн бұрын

Howdy, Johan! I'm not convinced that the Scripture are materially sufficient beyond what is needed for salvation (i.e., soteriology), but I recognize that it is a possible view. Either way, I would pose at least two scriptural arguments for the intercession of the saints. First, the Old Testament (and other Second Temple literature, as well as Rev. 8:3-4) contains a believe in angelic intercession. At the time, the angels were the only inhabitants of heaven, but after Jesus brought human saints to heaven, it was natural to regard the pool of heavenly intercessors as larger and thus ask for the intercession of human saints. Second, Revelation 5:8 portrays the 24 elders--who appear to represent the leaders of the people of God in heaven--offering to God the prayers of the saints, with the latter term being used at this time for *earthly* saints. Therefore, we see humans in heaven interceding for humans on earth, which invited Christians to ask them for their intercession. This practice then appears robustly in the early patristic age. I hope this helps, and God bless you!

@johanroypaul2816

11 күн бұрын

@@JimmyAkin Thank you for the reply, Jimmy.

1. Ultimately, 'Why Do We Pray to Saints?' is because God, in his divine generosity, wishes to: (A) honor his saints in heaven - and - (B) make known to us on earth their power that comes from Him, - most especially in the case of - (C) the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, as taught in Lumen Gentium, the Second Vatican Council's Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, promulgated by his holiness Pope Paul VI on November 21, 1964, Nos. 60-62: 60. There is but one Mediator as we know from the words of the apostle, "for there is one God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a redemption for all" (1 Tim. 2:5-6). The maternal duty of Mary toward men in no wise obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows His power. For all the salvific influence of the Blessed Virgin on men originates, not from some inner necessity, but from the divine pleasure. It flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on His mediation, depends entirely on it and draws all its power from it. In no way does it impede, but rather does it foster the immediate union of the faithful with Christ. 61. Predestined from eternity by that decree of divine providence which determined the incarnation of the Word to be the Mother of God, the Blessed Virgin was on this earth the virgin Mother of the Redeemer, and above all others and in a singular way the generous associate and humble handmaid of the Lord. She conceived, brought forth and nourished Christ. She presented Him to the Father in the temple, and was united with Him by compassion as He died on the Cross. In this singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the work of the Saviour in giving back supernatural life to souls. Wherefore she is our mother in the order of grace. 62. This maternity of Mary in the order of grace began with the consent which she gave in faith at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, and lasts until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation (Jn. 16:13). By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and cultics, until they are led into the happiness of their true home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix (Eph. 1:11-12; 1 Cor. 12:4 Gal. 5:22). This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator (Rev. 22:17). For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source. The Church does not hesitate to profess this subordinate role of Mary. It knows it through unfailing experience of it and commends it to the hearts of the faithful, so that encouraged by this maternal help they may the more intimately adhere to the Mediator and Redeemer. [Vatican VA /archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html]

@bombastoid

Ай бұрын

Where did you get this from if I may ask? I agree that the departed saints are partially aware of earthly events, that they can pray for and intercede for us, and that they are alive. But I disagree with praying to them because prayer is supposed to be between human beings and God through Jesus Christ. What you cited only explains the state of the departed saints and God's view of them. However, it doesn't show biblical support or rationalization for the practice of praying to the saints. Of course to be in glory is better than being on earth in the flesh. But what does that have to do with praying to the departed saints in heaven?

@annakimborahpa

29 күн бұрын

"But I disagree with praying to them because prayer is supposed to be between human beings and God through Jesus Christ." Response: 1. St. Paul's Letter to Philemon 1:20-22 (ESV): "Yes, brother, I want some benefit from you in the Lord. Refresh my heart in Christ. Confident of your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I say. At the same time, prepare a guest room for me, for I am hoping that through your prayers I will be graciously given to you." Is not St. Paul seeking some benefit from Philemon that includes hoping that through Philemon's own prayers in the Lord, Paul will be returned to Philemon's residence? 2. Revelation 4:9-11 ( ESV): "And whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who is seated on the throne, who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who is seated on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 'Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by Your will they existed and were created.'” Since the twenty-four elders are in heaven worshiping and praising God on the throne, is it permissible for Christians to seek some benefit from the elders that through the elders' prayers in the Lord, Christians may enter into the elders' heavenly residence, as St. Paul did on earth with Philemon? If not, why not? Is not the elders' heavenly status greater than Philemon's earthly status in that they fully can proclaim post-mortem with St. Paul, "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved His appearing"? (2 Timothy 4:7-8, ESV) 3. The saints in heaven can hear our prayers and pray for us ONLY if God authorizes it and gives them the power to do so. A. We do have biblical evidence that God authorizes communication between angels and human beings: "But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb, and as she wept she stooped to look into the tomb. And she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet. They said to her, 'Woman, why are you weeping?' She said to them, 'They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.' " (John 20:11-13, ESV) B. We also have biblical evidence that after Jesus' death and resurrection, there were those who rose from their graves and appeared to many in Jerusalem: "And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit. And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many." (Matthew 27:50-53, ESV) 4. St. Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 6:3 (ESV): "Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!" If: (A) St. Paul knows full well that Christians are to judge angels in heaven, - and - (B) God has authorized communication and contact between angels, departed saints and human beings on earth, thereby indicating that angels and the departed have the faculty and capacity given to them by God to hear human beings, - then - (C) how can one deny that the saints in heaven have been given authorization by God to hear the prayers of those on earth and present them before God as part of God's divine generosity? 5. Revelation 8:1-5 (ESV) presents an interplay between God and his angels offering to Him the prayers of the saints in a golden censor and afterwards the angels pouring this censor of the saints' prayers back upon the earth as a response: "When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel. Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake." Or: (A) are you restricting these efficacious prayers that these angels are offering to God only to those saints on the earth, (B) when St. Paul says that Christians in heaven are authorized and empowered by God to judge angels, (C) indicating their greater spiritual facility and capacity than when Christians are on the earth waiting for heaven? 6. The four churches that claim the Apostolic succession of their bishops from the original twelve apostles, i.e., the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Oriental Orthodox Churches and the Assyrian Church of the East, all four of these have taught from the mist of their antiquity that their members may invoke the prayers of the saints before God, most particularly of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God. 7. It is those who descend from a 16th century Protestantolic tradition that deny this divine generosity of God regarding His saints.

@bombastoid

29 күн бұрын

@@annakimborahpa Thank you for your reply. I appreciate the knowledge in your post. When the Epistle to Philemon was penned, Saints Paul and Philemon were both living out their earthly existence. Paul was not communicating with a departed saint. Also, Paul was not praying to Philemon. I know Akin in this video argues that praying and asking are synonymous. But I disagree. Praying and asking are unalike especially in the context of prayer. A conversation between two via writing is not the same as a conversation between a believer and God. Also, I have no problem with a Christian/Catholic asking another brother/sister for intercessory prayer as long as both are on earth living out their days. As for your reference to the 24 elders, I refer you to my above arguments. You cannot use Paul as an example because Paul was not requesting intercessory prayer from someone in heaven. He was requesting it from Philemon, a fellow Christian still living alongside Paul here on earth. And again, I have no problem with saints/elders/angels/etc. interceding for Christians/Catholics here on earth. What I do have an issue with is when Catholics try to imply that, because Paul requested prayers from other saints here on earth, that automatically means God is okay with Christians/Catholics praying to departed saints. The elders’ status and Philemon’s status have absolutely nothing to do with determining whether praying to departed saints is okay in God’s eyes. And I have no issue with believers wanting to benefit from the elders’ prayers. I have said in other posts on this comments section that I believe the departed saints are partly aware of events here on earth. Hebrews 11 and 12 mentions a cloud of witnesses, Moses and Elijah appear when Jesus is transfigured, etc. So I know they are aware of some events here on earth. As Christians we are allowed to know that the departed saints are aware of some events and that does comfort me. But all of this still doesn’t make praying to saints permissible. I simply have not found an example of this anywhere in the Bible. I am learning about Catholic doctrine based on tradition. I still don’t know how I will digest what I learn from my research. The example you give of the conversation outside the tomb between Mary and angels is also not applicable. The reason I say it doesn’t apply is that Mary is not praying to the angels. This is what I mean. Catholics seem to view a conversation whether in a dream, in a vision, or an apparition is the same as conversing with God in the act of praying. I don’t view conversations in these contexts as similar to making requests in the context of prayer. I can say the same thing regarding your point about judging angels and matters pertaining to this life. But again I ask, what does this have to do with praying to angels? Also, I agree that God allows communication between angels and human beings. I have never rejected this. But what does this have to do with praying to them or the departed saints.? Moreover, I have seen Catholics argue that the departed saints only hear and know the prayers that God allows them to know and hear, so how can you be sure they hear prayers the same way God hears our prayers? And just to be clear, I do think they can hear our prayers; however, I don’t know how God makes this possible. I don’t think they are omniscient. I can say the same thing about the passage you present where there is an interplay between God and his angels. I like to use Daniel’s prayer where the Archangel Michael brings a message from God. Of course God uses angels to communicate with human beings. But, I apologize for harping on this, but what does this have to do with praying to the saints? Daniel was praying to God, not to Michael. Are you arguing that, because the angels in this passage are depicted as pouring and offering the prayers of the saints, that this means human beings pray to angels? I don’t think this passage is saying that. I don’t have an issue with departed saints in heaven interceding for us. I don’t have a problem with angels interceding for us before God. I actually believe that this happens. I don’t dispute that some saints have been allowed by God to communicate with departed saints and with angels. But I have to repeat once more, I have not found an example where we are told that God allows us to pray, to actually pray to departed saints in heaven. Jesus never did this. The Apostles never did this. Again, prayed, not spoke, to departed saints. Where is there an example of this in the Bible? When did the Catholic Church introduce this as doctrine? I have a lot of questions, so I apologize. I’m actually seriously considering Catholicism as the church that Jesus founded. But it’s doctrines such as these that hold me back.

@annakimborahpa

29 күн бұрын

1. I commend you for carefully examining this issue. 2. A. If and only when you should ever become convinced that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was given to us by Him to be our mother in the order of grace and mother of the church, B. If and only when you could ever confidently pray the Hail Mary prayer, C. If and only then should you decide to enter the Catholic Church.

Christians should only pray to God in the name of Christ: "In that day you will not question Me about anything. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you. 24 Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full." John 16:23-24

@bigfootapologetics

Ай бұрын

In this context, "pray to" means "ask." The word "prithee" is the root for this turn of phrase and can be seen in books like Wuthering Heights. Christians can "ask" people to pray for them, and the Bible tells us the process pleases God.

@Justas399

Ай бұрын

@@bigfootapologetics This is a prayer of worship to Mary: Morning Consecration to Mary prayer: "My Queen and my Mother, I give myself entirely to you; and to show my devotion to you, I consecrate to you this day my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve. Wherefore, good Mother, as I am your own, keep me, guard me, as your property and possession. Amen."

@bigfootapologetics

Ай бұрын

@@Justas399 That's hyperdulia (high respect/honor/trust), not latria (supreme worship due to God alone). If you know the Bible and Catholic theology, then you know that the context of the prayer is with respect to Mary being the "magnifier" of graces, as her soul magnifies the Lord - so when someone gives themselves to Mary, it is only that she can bring that person closer to Christ Himself and magnify those graces and relationship. In the Bible and in Christian theology, latria (divine worship) was always understood as sacrifice, primarily Jesus's once-for-all sacrifice as re-presented during Mass. Martin Luther, in his hubris, wrote that every single early Christian source and the Bible confirmed this, but he thought he knew better, which is why most modern Protestants don't worship God as described biblically. So the reason why language like this is confused for worship by Christians belonging to modern denominations is because their concept of "worship" was lowered by Luther's traditions.

Should pray to them because it will increase the power of my prayer? What about people who never knew about the saints or their names, are their prayers weaker? Okay yes Paul asked others to pray for him and others on earth. Earth, not heaven right? Okay yes Jesus asked us to pray for our enemies. But our enemies are alive and on earth, not heaven right? How come Paul never prayed to Moses or Abraham? I could see this as logically coherent as you say ("reasonable") but I don't see it in the scripture I only present these as a friendly objection

Why would God need to tell them? Aren't angels the messengers between heaven and earth?

@Martha-ni9qq

Ай бұрын

(My response might be a bit convoluted, but it's just my attempt at answering the question.) 1. I don't think He needs to, I think God works through His saints because He likes to, He loves to collaborate with man. Heavenly intercession is only the continuation of a kind of collaboration that began during a saint's earthy life. 2. I imagine that the saints' intercessory missions, which continue in Heaven, serve as one continual spring of heavenly reward for those who yielded themselves deeply to God's will on earth--so that this reality is more so the privilege of the saints doing the interceding than a "need" by which God reaches mankind. Canonized saints are men and women who evidently surrendered to God in an extraordinary or heroic way whilst on earth, denied themselves to the extent that they were perfectly pliant, non-resistant instruments in His divine plan. The best tools adjust perfectly to the will of their handler. On earth this surrender would have been their agony, as Jesus' Passion was His; but converted into a spiritual reality, or seen in the light of truth, it is their crown, their unimaginable joy--which God continues to grant in abundance to those who denied Him nothing when it was hardest to. In the same way Jesus is "the Way," saints are little "ways" sanctified by God (lights on a hill to Jesus' capital "L", Light); they lived the Way of Christ, and the idea is that God bids you follow in their christlike footsteps by validating them through the Church. They are not Jesus, obviously, but they ultimately lead to Him. Again, this "mission" is their own privilege, not something God *needs* to do. 3. Another way to look at it is that God glorifies Himself in His creation. We see a mountain or a lovely sunset, and we praise their Maker. Man is the pinnacle of all creation, and in the same way, God is praised/glorified in His saints--"vessels" who returned to His original design for the human creature through a profound self-emptying or self-renunciation. In venerating saints, we praise God who exalted them from nothing. In praying to them, we demonstrate a confidence in the good work He has done in them. This is therefore a kind of faith in God, in His omnipotence and mercy, but one that encompasses His creation, breeding a loving, God-centric communion within Christ's Body (which comprises of those both in Heaven and on earth). God doesn't do anything because He needs to. It is always because He is merciful, or full of love and charity, or because He deems it good (etc.).

So "Ask" the saints to pray for you, God will hear the "Ask", then tell the Saint what to pray to him for you. I mean OK...,

For the lack of knowledge.

If it works as you describe, then shouldn’t you be asking God to go tell the saints you want them to pray for you? Since that’s the proper channel to get that information to them. If the only way they can hear you is by God telling them that your desire is for their prayers.

@TheRockIsCooking

Ай бұрын

Not necessarily. Job’s friends were told by God to go to Job and ask him to pray for them, because he would not answer their prayers, but he would answer Job’s.

Is there a scripture showing us that the early church did this?

@ianmiller07

Ай бұрын

Sorry I’m just a little confused by your comment. Are you asking for Scripture or quotations from the Church Fathers?

@DavidKnowles

Ай бұрын

@@ianmiller07 yes. First or second century would be very helpful. But preferably a scripture of course. 🙏🏻

@ianmiller07

29 күн бұрын

@@DavidKnowles Thank you for the reply. I am no Church historian or anything, although I am trying to research more, but here are a few quotations: Origen “But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep” (Prayer 11 [A.D. 233]). Hermas “[The Shepherd said:] ‘But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from him?’” (The Shepherd 3:5:4 [A.D. 80]). Clement of Alexandria “In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]” (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208]). I am much more inclined to provide evidence from Scripture, however, before I begin, do you feel there is a Biblical prohibition against this practice?

@ianmiller07

28 күн бұрын

@@DavidKnowles Please excuse my tardy response. I thought I had replied yesterday but I guess not. Now, I am no Church historian but here are some citations for you: Hermas “[The Shepherd said:] ‘But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from him?’” (The Shepherd 3:5:4 [A.D. 80]). Clement of Alexandria “In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]” (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208]). Origen “But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep” (Prayer 11 [A.D. 233]). I am much more inclined to talk Scripture with you but, before I begin, do you believe there is anyting that prohibits intercession of saints in the Bible?

@elf-lordsfriarofthemeadowl2039

27 күн бұрын

​@@DavidKnowlesohhhh yeah. Asking for Mary's intercession in particular is dating to around the 270s, with the We fly to thy Patronage" prayer.

You recite prayers to a created being in the exact way you recite prayer to God/Jesus

@atrifle8364

Ай бұрын

They are not the same. The memorized prayers include "pray for us", which prayers to God/Jesus do not.

@TimSpangler-rd6vs

Ай бұрын

@@atrifle8364 Distinction without a difference. You recite prayers to a created being in the exact same way you recite prayer to God/Jesus.

@ghostapostle7225

Ай бұрын

@@TimSpangler-rd6vs Just saying is a disctinction without a difference does not make it a distinction without a difference, either you show it or you're just acting disingenuously.

@TimSpangler-rd6vs

Ай бұрын

@@ghostapostle7225 Its simple. In the rosary you recite the Our Father...and recite the Hail Mary

@Martha-ni9qq

Ай бұрын

@@TimSpangler-rd6vs if catholics were to abandon recitation and speak freely to the saints in asking for intercession (which they also do), would that make a difference to you? What point are you making? Is it that no reverence at all is due to those wholly united to God in Heaven?

A lot of what was heard here is based on human logic, instead of the truth of God's word. Jesus taught His disciples to pray to the Father, not Abraham, Moses, Elijah, or David. Many believers are not aware that in Christ we have inherited the continual intercession of Jesus and the Holy Spirit, without even asking!!! God is good! Do not let the devil rip you off, by diverting you from sole attention to the Father in Jesus name.

@johncampos1780

Ай бұрын

Sounds like sound human logic to me. I'll go with the teachings and traditions of the Catholic Church, that is guided by the Holy Spirit.

@dannisivoccia2712

Ай бұрын

@@johncampos1780 Odd that someone guided by the Holy Spirit would find that which is directly from God's word to be human logic. Was that taken from the catechism?

@johncampos1780

Ай бұрын

@@dannisivoccia2712 In your human logic, you assume your right, and you assume what I think. You are incorrect in both ways, I agree with all that is written in The Bible, and the traditions taught by The Church, that is guided by The Holy Spirit, which is in The Bible. You cannot make that claim. I disagree with your human logic.

@MyEnemiesLoveDeath

Ай бұрын

Jesus also never instructed his followers to pray to Him. But that doesn't mean it's wrong to pray to Jesus. This is an argument from silence

@dannisivoccia2712

Ай бұрын

@@johncampos1780 In your attempt to defend this video's commentator, you find yourself in need of being defended also; but it will not happen from Jesus, nor from the Holy Spirit, nor from His original Apostles, since it was Jesus Himself who taught His people how to pray and who to pray to.

Even sounds dumb

Prayer to dead " catholic saints " is necromancy, a sin.

Why you pray to saints ? Because you don’t want to listen to the teachings of Jesus. Matthew 6:6 He thought His disciples to pray to God, He never thought anything else. That’s why you pray to saints.

@tafazziReadChannelDescription

Ай бұрын

And how do you kniw he never taught anything else? Sola Scriptura is false.

@user-fi1pe4dg3u

Ай бұрын

@@tafazziReadChannelDescription Because the teachings of Jesus are in the bible and no where else, listening to Jesus is the best thing to do.

@ianmiller07

Ай бұрын

Certain prayer is reserved for God, yes on that Catholics agree. However, intercessory prayer is still biblical.

@user-fi1pe4dg3u

Ай бұрын

@@ianmiller07 intercession is praying for one another, which is very biblical. But Jesus is the only mediator between God and men 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,And God is the only one who receives prayers like Jesus thought His apostles.

@ianmiller07

Ай бұрын

@@user-fi1pe4dg3u Thank you for the reply. "intercession is praying for one another, which is very biblical" I appreciate you acknowleding how intercessory prayer is throughly supported by Scipture. That is precisely what "praying to the saints" is - i.e. asking them to pray or intercede for us. "But Jesus is the only mediator between God and men 1 Timothy 2:5" Indeed He is and Catholics have no problem admitting this: Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men (CCC, 480). I have to ask, if this somehow "contradicts" the Catholic belief in intercession of the saints does it not also contradict intercessory prayer altogether? Obviously, I would say no, which I will get into, but I want to understand how you answer this.

In the Bible it says the only way to the father is threw Christ not Mary u don't say hail Mary only Christ 😮😢

@theticoboy

Ай бұрын

Do you ask others to pray for you? Why don’t you go straight to the Father through Jesus? And “Hail Mary” comes straight from the Bible.

@PaulPerez-lx5yr

Ай бұрын

@@theticoboy the angel said hail don't mean she is to b praised I'm a Catholic but I will not pray Mary or put saints in my house sure u want to b like a saint but pray to God the father

@theticoboy

Ай бұрын

@@PaulPerez-lx5yr well now you’re changing what you said. The Hail Mary is besides the point. You never answered my other questions. You don’t ask people to pray for you? Why not go straight to Jesus?

@michele-33

Ай бұрын

​@@theticoboy We pray to Jesus and the Father but ask the saints to pray FOR us 🙏🏻 GBU 🕊️

@PaulPerez-lx5yr

Ай бұрын

I just don't believe in the rosary judge me if u will mr no it all I don't care about u only God

The Bible says NOT to pray to the dead. Sorry. You are un Biblical. The Bible clearly says CHRIST, ALONE isthe One Mediator.

@bethmcmullan7686

Ай бұрын

Good thing the Saints aren’t dead 😉

@atrifle8364

Ай бұрын

Have you ever asked a friend to pray for you? If so you have asked for their mediation/intercession.

@ghostapostle7225

Ай бұрын

Glad that, unlike you, we worship the God of the living.

@joinjen3854

Ай бұрын

@ghostapostle7225 Father, Son and Holy Spirit are Living always. The rest " Sleep" as another word for dead. How do the DEAD hear your prayers? ONE MEDIATOR, CHRIST JESUS.

@joinjen3854

Ай бұрын

@atrifle8364 living people praying is COMPLETELY different than asking those who sleep, who hear no prayers. You aren't good with Logic or Bible comprehension are you?

Jimmy, you're taking a big leap in logic that people in heaven pray for us. There is nothing in scripture to indicate, unless you're choosing to misinterpret scripture to suit your scenario, to indicate that anyone but God is receiving our requests. Intercession is biblical, but for the living. I hope you consider this matter further. God bless you.

@ianmiller07

Ай бұрын

Are those in Heaven not living?

@ToeTag1968

Ай бұрын

@@ianmiller07 Yes. The leap of logic is that God is passing along prayers to the saints for their intercession. He already has the prayer! And, if you believe that the saints have some sort of limited omniscience and can hear our prayers, that's another leap of logic. The bible doesn't contain any verses that bolster either point of view. Just because God can do something doesn't mean He did. That's not a valid argument for intercessory prayer to the heavenly saints. Further, if the point of asking them for intercessory prayer is because they are more pious, the pray in Jesus' name (as instructed in John 16:25-27) because Romans 8:34 tells us that Jesus is at the right hand interceding for us. Who is more holy than him?! No one! Matthew 18:19-20 Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them. Did you catch that? If two of you agree ON EARTH. Sorry for the caps, didn't want you to miss it. God bless you.

Idolotry

@chezjowy8596

Ай бұрын

That's not a word...

@darrellperez1029

Ай бұрын

Stick to food gordito

@ianmiller07

Ай бұрын

Please elaborate