Fragmentation wounds are the #1 kinetic cause of casualties and fatalities in LSCO. In direct action raids, reduced mobility gets you shot.

@TopDrek

3 ай бұрын

lol operators getting shot while raiding White Americans homes at 2am

@ulacylon-timetrio9664

3 ай бұрын

@@TopDrek Womp womp (We also get raided for doing illegal shit, boohoo)

@TopDrek

3 ай бұрын

@@ulacylon-timetrio9664Who is 'we'

@maciejbury2016

3 ай бұрын

@@TopDrek we wuz kangz

@crusher8017

3 ай бұрын

@@TopDrek So you are saying SF are raiding houses? That is against the Posse Commitatus Act.

"Special Forces" Operators when they see me pull up in a Modified Bulldozer.

@randomclipsmilitary9056

3 ай бұрын

Hell Yeah

@jkuhede

3 ай бұрын

"Oh shit!!"

@maximilianj.gatsby5330

3 ай бұрын

"Special forces" when im just a lunatic in the woods sending out mail

@amraphensantiago6699

3 ай бұрын

'laughs in carl gustav'? i guess?

@NurseAmamiya

Ай бұрын

I've read articles and watched full lengths videos documenting the incident involving that Killdozer. That shit was wild af

Operators have to be able to move quickly and strike where an enemy least expects it while us Grunts have the duty of taking and holding terrain which means we’ll be in direct engagements with the enemy and additional protection has its benefits, we don’t have to be able to move quickly on foot for the most part.

@cmap1503

3 ай бұрын

Hooah

@bugfisch7012

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, on the other side, soldiers are holding positions and are more linkly to get HE rounds by mortars or artillery next to em - wich is why it makes sense to get a more full protection onto em. If Operators get such a fire, a lot of things went wrong before.

@cameronhenke593

3 ай бұрын

You were born on April 1 1999 wtf do you know about combat i was born April 3 1992 therefore ive played far more FPS games than you people should listen to my combat experience than to you i have fought in ALL of rhe Call of Dutys including WW2 not to mentiob rhe battlefiled franchise so GTFO stolen valor boy

@11broomstickk

3 ай бұрын

Any decent infantry unit is deploying with plate carriers or jpcs. Iotvs are for training units killer.

@unholyknight786

3 ай бұрын

as of now, with inception of FPV-drones and quadrocopters with explosive payload - speed is useless and frag protection is needed more then ever. If enemy you are fighting have at least some fighting chance and is not of some backwater tribe with old rifles as only weapons - frag protection is the musthave.

worth noting that soldier vests are getting smaller, the soldier in the thumbnail is wearing the MSV Gen II which is 25 lbs fully loaded, with magazines and plates compared to the IOTV which would be 40 lbs full kitted out. The MSV was also issued (to me, at least) with a kevlar combat shirt which aids in protecting otherwise exposed areas. In truth, lighter plate carriers are comfortable and fundamentally better than IOTVs, and as technology progresses and plates become lighter and more protective, as well as cheaper, body armor is getting smaller across the board.

@attilaabonyi8879

3 ай бұрын

What is the reason for it getting smaller?

@wisemankugelmemicus1701

3 ай бұрын

@@attilaabonyi8879 Modularity. Before the MSV was developed and issued, the US Army had two vests that combat soldiers would wear, the IOTV which was a large, cumbersome tactical vest which broke down into several padded kevlar segments, commonly called "soft armor", and the "chicken vest", which is a kevlar soft vest which resembles the soft armor on the inside of a flak jacket. The MSV (Modular Scalable Vest) can do both - the outer layer is a tactical vest which clips together, the inner layer is a chicken vest which velcros together. In the full tactical configuration, you slip your ballistic plates into the chicken vest, insert the chicken vest inside the tactical vest, and clip the tactical vest together. Worth noting that the MSV is made by civilian tactical gear companies, so it is definitely an SOF-inspired design, if not SOF approved

@casperarms

3 ай бұрын

Yes, you read my mind! This is something that would definitely be worth adding to the video, but I thought about it after the video was ready. We can actually observe that compared to the old 6B-23, MTV, IOTV and Mehler ST (I think that's what the Bundeswehr armored vest is called), the new body armor have come very close to the form factors of plate carriers

@echohunter4199

3 ай бұрын

The standard Infantryman has the mission of taking and holding ground so the amount of fire they will face is higher than the other units that use smaller and lighter vests/armor. Special Ops units must be able to move quickly and they rarely get into firefights with an enemy, they’re supposed to break contact with an enemy so they do carry more ammunition for this purpose (on some missions).

@wisemankugelmemicus1701

3 ай бұрын

@@echohunter4199 In the US Army, infantry have done close range assaults since 1991

so for SOF, it's especially made for fast tactics like forays/raids and recon while in generic military style, it's made for more protection from possible injuries present in the battlefield itself

@snakejr9428

3 ай бұрын

I thought so, sof and SF green berets needs to be light to move faster and easier for the high speed operations they do. Even a video on the 75th rangers RASP said the need to be light to probably perform the fast direct action raids they specialize in. I wanna do that one day though.

@aljonserna5598

3 ай бұрын

@@snakejr9428 grind hard to be able to become one of the best team players

Conventional military = more shrapnel risk = more soft armor coverage Special operations = fast targeted attacks + higher fire fights = light hard armor Police response teams = more gun fire risk + short engagements = heavy hard armor

We're also currently in a shift in mindset in terms of armour. During the early GWOT era, most militaries were obsessed with the idea of having as much protection as possible, so naturally rigs became large and encompassed much of the body. Same with helmets. Nowadays, more people gravitate toward more streamlined carriers as it's impractical to completely armour up every part of your body, as it's usually uncomfortable and more awkward to move and one of the key instruments to winning an engagement is having a maneuvering element to close the distance and eliminate a target. The IOTV type rigs are mostly leftovers from an old mindset and nowadays, comfort and mobility are becoming as much of a consideration as protection. SOF units tho usually get more say in their gear and can adapt with differing mindsets more quickly as they have their own group of people (i.e NAVSPECWAR) dedicated to testing equipment tailored specifically to special operators vs standard infantry who has to rely on their particular branch to test and source anything, as well as any other duties that that particular branch may do. It doesn't help that often times, a branches funds are not just dedicated to the infantry kit and have to go to other avenues, such as logistics, vehicle maintenance, medical services, etc.

@Riceball01

3 ай бұрын

I think that weight is also a concern. During the wars in in Iraq and Afghanistan, esp. in Afghanistan, the military brass soon realized that giving the troops heavy armor all around in an effort to protect them, it weighed and slowed them down and made them (potentially) more vulnerable to attacks and less able to chase down a fleeing enemy. I think that there was also a rise in knee and back injuries due to the increased weight. The sad thing is that the military, at least in the US , seldomly reduces a soldier/Marine's loadout by much. Almost every time the military finds a way of reducing the wight of a piece of kit, they end coming up with something else or more of something they already carry which ends up negating any savings in weight from the reduced weight of the new piece of kit.

@moss8702

3 ай бұрын

That protection is coming back but lighter. We were spoiled because we fought an unconventional war for 20 yrs. Ukraine is showing us why that soft armor is important

@krel7160

3 ай бұрын

It's kind of the same thing that happened with the 'knight's' armor. It started out with chainmail, they developed plate, they made the plate better, and got it to cover the whole body.. And then we invented guns. And suddenly the metal armor didn't stop an ubiquitous weapon. So the armor on the legs got discontinued because you needed to more agile. Then the armor on the upper limbs. Then finally all you had left was a metal chestplate - if that, which itself got discontinued at the end of the first world war. Then we found out, hey, this layered fabric stuff (modern gambeson) is pretty good at stopping bullets! So we made more of it, and began uparmoring our soldiers. Then we realized 'We could a plate with this, and it'd stop even more!'. So we added plate to the gambeson. And now we're realizing that too much weight slows the combatant down. So we're easing off the armor, but improving the things it's good at, the roles it needs to fulfill. It's kind of a human cycle in history to uparmor, uparmor, ween back, experiment, improve, then up armor, up armor.. Same thing happened with tanks. We made heavier and heavier armor until the shells got too powerful, and then we realized controlled explosions could be a form of armor itself - so the tanks got lighter, and lighter, as more focus was put on mobility, size of weapon, and ability to resist injury.

@samuelg3586

3 ай бұрын

Agreed ​@@moss8702

@stevennguyen4993

12 күн бұрын

You do have a point. It's always the special units that gets the initial distribution of new gear and equipment, and it slowly spreads out into lower combat and support units as manufacturing and budgetting permits. Same applies with weapon systems when they undergo trials. I see the arguments of shrapnel versus direct fire, but I also see some inconsistency in the fact that operators are also as likely (if not more) to face shrapnel in combat than their more standard counterparts, which reduces the strength of the argument. Naturally, there will always be a trade-off between protection and mobility. But personally, if I were to own my own body armor, I'd go for something smaller to maximize mobility while protecting critical areas. Which was the case when I got tired of large dudes pulling strings and fighting over small IOTV's for themselves, while leaving me with the bulky large ones that doesn't actually makes sense even from a protective standpoint.

Most testimony from Marines in Fallujah says that guys were wearing as much kevlar as they possibly could during combat. Kevlar coverage makes the difference between a nick in your vest that you don't even notice, and a life threatening frag injury.

Because more mobility than protection for SF/SOF operators.

@thekraken1173

3 ай бұрын

Thats actually not true (for bullets). Most armies still still issue large kevlar soft type IIIA armor to their soldiers. Most of the spec ops around the world use type III or IV steel hard plates with plate carriers. So on average a spec ops soldier has better protection and better mobility than an average soldier.

@XortiXz

3 ай бұрын

@@thekraken1173 pretty sure they use ceramic unless they want fragmentation in their neck and arms

@thekraken1173

3 ай бұрын

@@XortiXz Only rich countries or top elite unites use ceramics. Ceramics are more expensive and they need to be carefully handled. They can shatter. Steel armor doesn’t shatter when dropped on stuff. Also its cheaper and easy to produce.

@little438

3 ай бұрын

​​@@thekraken1173i have ceramic plates myself, dropped them, thrown them across, they dont break as easily as you think, though if handled roughly not a great idea

@Shlongest902

3 ай бұрын

@@thekraken1173yea so expect the US SF to use them since they are the cream of the crop for SF

one thing to consider is that SOF often are early adopter, while on regular infantry, most of the times due to mass number required, they adopt something much slower. During rearmament here during early war on terror year, i saw some previously unarmored unit get fully equiped by plate carrier sooner (bypassing IOTV style) while some infantry still in progress of phasing IOTV out.

It's a balance of speed and protection. Also keep in mind operators are likely to be more highly specific mission focused and have more transportation methods. Infantry will have a need for greater long term sustainment and using what you can carry for days or weeks at a time. Then there is maritime and parachute/airborne considerations.

Incredibly helpful information. Thank you for taking your time to make this video, mate.

id say because SF usually has the element of surprise and typically choses where and when their engagement takes place, so armor isnt as essential as mobility and reducing signatures. while the average soldier is far more likely to be the one engaged first from any direction, even indirectly, while sitting in a trench or on patrol; so more of their body should be covered.

Short answer: The army uses heavier and less mobile equipment with a lot of explosion protection, since their priority is general military combat, and special forces use light, mobile equipment because they must perform quick operations that do not involve general military combat.

another reason to wear more armor as a SWAT operator is that in addition to shrapnel, soft armor will protect against pistol rounds. In the US the average criminal which they would encounter daily is much more likely to be armed with a pistol than with a rifle, so the increased soft armor coverage would provide real benefit.

@PersonOfSand

26 күн бұрын

I worked at an international/regional SWAT training facility. Almost all of them look like “operators”. Which doesn’t make sense. You’d think these guys would want more protection. Considering all they do is mobilize in vehicles and dismount in, at the very most, a large building. Then considering how meticulous their entry and clearing is, you’d figure they’d want all the protection. Especially responding to things that go boom. Looking cool like the tv is more important I guess.

@Pearmesan

19 күн бұрын

@@PersonOfSand Would it not be a cost thing?

@21kiwi24

8 сағат бұрын

​@@PersonOfSandit's still pretty common to see swat wearing shoulder and groin soft armour, even shown specifically at the end in this vid

Small plate carriers- When you don't expect getting shot, but still want to be safe.

The main reason is because the plate itself won’t get any bigger if you have a bigger plate carrier, therefore you can save a lot of weight and bulk buy streamlining it down to just cover the plates. Also soft armor.

People need to stop giving the advice that pc is better. Just as armored humvees in later Afghanistan and Iraq, body armors saved countless lives. If you are don't have the mission requirements like the sf(mountainous terrain without transportation)as a average Joe,get your bodyarmor and stay freakin static or you will regret it. Much more grunts died due to fragmentations and ieds shrapnels than bullets.

@bugfisch7012

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, or even normal battlefield shit like mortars and artillery. Look to Ukraine... Of cause, if you're some kind of high distance scout operator that broke through the lines, the armor would most likly be a problem - it's kind of useless, cause if you get some kind of mortar fire, you're done anyway. But sitting in the damn trenches, I would allways go for full protection.

@Rokaize

Ай бұрын

This is so open to requirements of the mission or area you’re in. The USMC did a bunch of testing in the pacific islands a few years ago. Specifically the Philippines. And during their extensive testing, body armor was abandoned. And the switch was quickly made to load bearing vests. It’s simple too hot and humid to function long term with body armor on in the jungle. It was causing a horrendous amount of heat casualties. More than were taken even in simulated combat. You can read the report on it. It’s interesting. But plates certainly aren’t necessary at all times in all places. In the jungle they specially stated that there is so much natural cover that simply laying prone makes you hard to shoot. And that fights take place at point blank range, where plates are of dubious value

@bugfisch7012

Ай бұрын

@@Rokaize Well, this makes sense in an insurgent situation - wich was pretty much the situation, the USMC saw as most likly in those years. I would argue, that it can not hold up to the expieriences of the Ukraine war, were we saw the come back of trench warfare and the Artillery as the main factor on the battlefield, as well as a great threat of suicide drones, drone bomblets, etc... I would argue, that body armor got way more important for survivity - but on the other hand, we talk about mass fightings and it might get an economical question if it's not cheaper to loose more people than to buy body armor for every soldier in this scale of battle... Wich is a bit cynical, for sure - but that's war I guess ;)

@Rokaize

Ай бұрын

@@bugfisch7012 Well yeah Ukraine is a situation where wearing. Body armor is basically mandatory. Especially soft armor. Many Russian and Ukrainian soldiers wear armor that covers their whole torso and with a groin pad of Kevlar as well. But this makes sense, they’re in a war where it’s a lot of sitting in trenches and riding in vehicles. Where artillery is the killer of 9 out of 10 people. In the mild summers of Ukraine having as much protection as possible makes sense. In the jungles of some pacific island, with 110 degree temperatures with 95% humidity. And a ton of rain. With mud and other natural features that are extremely difficult and exhausting to navigate, then body armor is seriously more of a threat to you than the enemy is. You’re just going to pass out

@21kiwi24

8 сағат бұрын

​@@Rokaizethere are good enough platforms that are as scalable "down" as they are "up". The inclusion of side plates and groin protectors to a PC (not throat protection, no one ever wants to wear that for any extended period of time) and soft armour backers really doesn't make it a mutually exclusive choice you have to make anymore.

Good vid keep it up man👍

You also have to think logistics. SOF will always have the best logistics in the game, so they don’t have to worry about carrying anything except what they need since the supply train is always right there. Regular soldiers on the other hand may not get that resupply every day like SOF guys will, so when they go out they’ve got to carry a lot more on them.

@elix901

3 ай бұрын

I think you got it reversed my man SOF guys will go quiet awhile with out supply. If you have the air all day you get some drops. Grunts will get that supply when the jobs done. You have to think SOF is going in behind the lines often. Grunts are the line.

@Gridlocked

Ай бұрын

That can’t be right. Think what SOF had to do in Laos, Vietnam, and Cambodia.

When I was in the Marines we used IOTVs in training and plate carriers in country. Drove us nuts with the switch up last second. But definitely liked the carriers over the IOTV. Better mobility with the same protection.

At first i was reluctant, thinking you wouldn't know the subject, but i was wrong. Very well wraped up!

I wore the IOTV most of my career as a grunt. The furthest I’ve made it to was the Gen IV. Honestly the shits always heavy regardless of what you’re wearing. I did get to use a JPC for a couple of months as a test for big army. The JPC was dope but when carrying full load, radios, batteries, and so much more it doesn’t really matter. I was just happy that shoulder my m4 was easier with a gen iv and jpc. The old iotvs sucked for shouldering your weapon.

The probability of engaging near peer threats. People forget the last 20 plus years has been nothing but insurgency warfare and we’re most likely gonna see formal conflict with Russia, China and Iran opposed to the insurgency warfare that’ll take place here as domestic threats rise. So pick your time and money wisely with what YOULL be encountering on your way home from work

@Npc1488-wc1kf

3 ай бұрын

You clowns might wanna fight DCs wara but Im not fighting Russia and China for evil traitora that arw replacing me and my entire race in ALL western nations

Swat units also use heavy body armor. Sometimes heavier than soldiers, because they offer more small caliber rounds protection in more areas, such as upto common civilian hold 9mm smg and 44mm.

@Riceball01

3 ай бұрын

That and police units like SWAT teams don't have to wear their kit for very long when compared to a grunt in the field, nor do they have to worry about humping all of that weight up and down steep hills or through a desert. They just have to go a handful of yards from their truck or van to whatever building they have to enter.

@eaglet6703

3 ай бұрын

@@Knight-SgtReyes Would you rather be shot, or just carry 5 extra pounds, high-speed?

@eaglet6703

3 ай бұрын

@@Riceball01 That is true. Heat is the main issue wearing these heavy kevlars in places like middle east, more dudes getting carried out due to sunstroke than getting wounded in the first place. If they have cooling system in the future, I'm sure soldiers would be more than happy to use heavier kits.

@little438

3 ай бұрын

​@@Knight-SgtReyeshe prolly meant more coverage

@little438

3 ай бұрын

44mm goes wild dude, you mean .44 magnum?

this vid was actually pretty accurate imo. I'm surprised with the amount of understanding of the nuanced details of how modern body armor works and how it was presented in a succinct way, like that plates are the only thing stopping most rifle bullets and most soft armor that covers more is only level 3 and below and in a military setting is mainly for stopping fragmentation. Good job knowing that, i've seen some military guys not even know that.

@natedowns

Ай бұрын

Says "Special forces" show marines and other sof in the video, barely showed any green berets

Pretty cool, thanks !

Man, I have a lvl 4 rig, but same time I have buddy who got a Purple Heart after he got hit with a svd, 7.62/54 rimmed black tip, his lv4 ceramic plate is what got pushed into his heart. Somehow survived.

On my last deployment we were allowed to wear personal plate carriers as long as the fit our issued plates. I used a crye Spc and my issued lbt. Something to note is that the lbt is not large. We did get issued iotvs from rfi but that was because some dumb officer in the task force didn’t realize that we could put sides plates in the issued lbt plate carrier

Even before finishing the video I can tell you some simple reasoning, a soldier usually participates in more direct engagement ergo they are far more likely to be debilitated or killed by shrapnel artillery etc etc, more armor also helps give more confidence to the individual soldier pushing into the shit so to speak. Whereas operators are more of a scalpel rather than a sledgehammer who try to avoid combat and achieve a specific goal, being light and covering the most vulnerable parts is generally sufficient for someone trained to several standards higher than the average infantry man, especially when the risk of injury from things like shrapnel is significantly lower. And that doesn't even take into account rucking deep into enemy territory and remaining mobile etc etc. Those are simply the basics.

Thank you😺

Soldiers are expected to participate in sustained contact with the enemy. Operators are not. Operators are expected to operate hard and fast so the tradeoff of protection for mobility is made.

@prodigy1605

Ай бұрын

Yes

Depends on the threat/mission

In the United States Army depending on your unit, you can just buy and run whatever plate carrier you want to, so it’s more up to individual preference really.

I've worked with nearly all of the common Special Operations units that the US military has to offer (haven't worked with the Marine Raiders though). The real difference is just the average size of the men wearing the carriers. A large plate is only marginally wider than a medium plate, but is substantially longer. I'm 6'0 and I run a medium plate because any longer and if I tried to situp the plate would jab into me. I'm also very broad and so almost any plate carrier that fits me length wise barely covers me horizontally. This is true for many others in the SOF community. Also, most conventional guys have less choice in what they can wear. If you get issued something too big, you just have to deal with it.

It’s all about mobility… Some operations need you to move quicker than others.

Damn son you answer questions before we even ask them ,thank you

I was a Grunt in the 101st and fought in Afghanistan in 2010-2011. We used plate carriers not "armored vests" or IOTV/IBA.

The comparison between federal law enforcement and soldiers isn’t really fair because LEO use plates for active shooter situations (generally over quickly) and soldiers use plates and soft armor for rounds and fragments (they can be in the situation for a extended period). Overall great video! Maybe compare US army and SF military but not LEO.

@casperarms

3 ай бұрын

Thanks for the clarification. The fact is that in my country, any guys with cool equipment and tuning are considered special forces

Just and FYI in the American Army SF is about 5-10 years ahead of the regular army. The United States army is phasing out the ITOV variants with something called the MSV its on par with SF. until the SF dudes get energy shields.

SF guys are going up very specific targets. General infantry guys are going against all of them. Very specific targets have guards that shoot at you, occasionally have nades and RPGs ready. General targets have everything from tank and air suppprt, which means youre just as likely to get got by a 9mm as you are a 1mm rock going 2000fps from a cannon shot or bomb being dropped chipping of a pice of concrete or stone with your name on it. SF guys also have to be able to get out as fast as they get in, less they be surrounded and killed by a QRF. Every 300lbs saved is another fully combat kitted out guy they can put on the bird. As a general infantry corpsman, I, personally, weighed about 500lbs with my 2 week loadout. When I was Recon, I never even came close to that unless we were moving a heavy weapons company or comms group somewhere... interesting. PJs always weigh 500lbs. Your back pain is not service related. Have a nice day.

new marines PC are smaller than in past new high cut marines helmet have smaller amount of material than before and army doing something similar but not in that scale.. i think this was discutable in 2014 but not now. and btw SF used large PC like ciras and ciras maritime, RBAVs (some units to 2018 i thing).

Well i think soldiers are fights with unknown, I mean they have tasks for Patrol, guarding outpost, scout / recon, etc But the operators are fights enemy that known by intel from HQ so they can measure the equipment to use

I heard that its because operators have learnt to recover any damage by taking cover for long enough, so their armor only need to cover vital areas to prevent one shot kill situations

Remember reading that a lot of DEVGRU guys would go on missions without their plates in the last years of Afghanistan. Some would have one plate in the chest carrier, but left the back empty

It really boils down to the different missions. One is performing Direct Action and the other is performing Patrols. Mission always dictates what equipment you take.

I think it's to do with environment. Soldiers are more often out in the open and threat can come from any direction. Police SF operators tends to be clearing buildings and are only likely to get hit in the front when entering rooms, plus moving in tight quarters you don't want to be bulky.

You forgot soft armor protect against anything smaller than a rifle.

Do uniform fabric provide a certain level of protection? Fragmentation or shrapnel hit every part of the body...

@dankovac1609

3 ай бұрын

Nah i'd say not. Its like how clothing does not stop a needle. It would have to be a rather thick piece of dense clothing to provide any protection. And still, unlike a needle which has to be driven manually projectiles are fast as all hell and carry enough energy with them to really negate anything that does not outright stop them.

@Ryan-cv9ww

3 ай бұрын

Unless you are wearing a full EOD frag suit then no, it’s not feasible in combat situations to have thick clothing like that , most you will get is fire retardant uniforms

@GhostRider659

3 ай бұрын

there are lightweight frag suits associated with Russian special forces in the caucasus, but that's an edge case. I'm not aware of anything equivalent popping up anywhere else.

@bartul7160

3 ай бұрын

Fragmentation usually travels at speeds of around 1km per second, good luck stopping that with cloth

@CoffeeFiend1

3 ай бұрын

They do but it's entirely circumstantial really. Shrapnel is a gigantic spectrum of of shape, size, weight, velocity, angle etc. Shrapnel could be a 4 foot piece of a steel girder or it could be a 6mm strand of bent copper wire. So clothing can absolutely stop tons of shrapnel sometimes. But on the other hand body armour can stop zero shrapnel other times. It's so variable. It's one reason why I'd always advocate eye protection to be honest, a ton of stuff that gets blown at you could be more or less inconsequential but a tiny sliver of material hits you in the eye? That's you out of it now 90% useless for the immediate future.

I’m pretty sensitive about getting injuries so I would want as much protection as possible so the tiny size of plate carriers kinda scares me, though I’ve seen pictures of women wearing them and it seems like a perfect size for them. I have shot while wearing a plate carrier and it was a bit more difficult than without, but still I’d prefer more protection so maybe a combination of a Kevlar & plate carrier seems ideal to me though I don’t think I’ve seen any of those, do they exist?

well you definitely dont wanna climb mountain with body armor

Speed operators usually have to move much quicker and use operators are in and then out

Simply put it's a difference in the mission between special forces an regular infantryman.

The vest the german soldier at 1:07 is wearing isn't the new MOBAST system. It's an older vest model.

Well it has always been the idea that Special Operations Forces using different/special gear to differentia themselves from regular military, the Green Beret headgear and Ranger Body Armor being a few examples.

Between sides of difference on operators and soldiers

Anyone know what boots those are at 1:25?

It's all about the right tool for the job. If you have standard military training and have to hold the line in a trench or patrol an area that shouldn't be contested for days or weeks on end, it's unrealistic to maintain a high level of alertness. Chances are you aren't oriented toward the eventual threat so having full coverage body armor makes a lot of sense. In the same way if you're in special forces with several times the training in the art of war, you'll be too valuable to man the trench. You know how to maintain a high state of alert and are constantly calculating the highest threat direction along with your team. Both are warriors and both are essential, but they are distinct as well.

SOF is light swift moving, while infantry are more conventional, including frontline battle with massive equipment, defending stationary positions..

Might be the wrong place to ask this, but here goes. I've noticed that in some games there are often glass face shields which can be attached to helmets. Are these a thing which are ever used? Or is it a case of too much impairment to movement/comfort to be worth using?

@CoffeeFiend1

3 ай бұрын

They do exist. The US ones I've seen were basically clip on visors with a big clip on counter-weight to the back (like is often needed with night vision). Only ever seen them used in footage by vehicle gunners. Not sure if they're particularly common though. Russians have a lot of rifle-rated full face helmets that are extremely heavy duty, they're kinda ahead of everyone else in this area but that said... It's not really a great technological accomplishment per se as it wouldn't be hard for any other country to do the same, the main reason it's not common elsewhere is they're ridiculously heavy, they're not standard place in Russia by any means. Thing with body armour is, you can keep making it heavier and heavier to an extent because guys can adapt and train to it but when it comes to helmets you really can't go past a certain point without it just causing constant neck ache and headaches, we're not designed to carry tons of weight on our head.

shrapnel protection vs small arms fire protection. counter insurgency favors mobility and small arms protection. near peer conflicts favor shrapnel protection.

Heavy infantry moves around in vehicles, light infantry carry their stuff on their backs. enough said

@iiikolby56

3 ай бұрын

Fuck are u talking about lmao

@patrikk9961

3 ай бұрын

I don’t think he gets the point, difference between heavy and light inf were never a topic on this one

@thodorisevangelakos

3 ай бұрын

@@patrikk9961 sof are pretty much always, light infantry. Also here recon guys wear light gear, many times not even using plates and assault teams (not sure how it's translated) tend to use the heavier stuff

@crusher8017

3 ай бұрын

SF are not light infantry but a totally different beast.

@fridrekr7510

3 ай бұрын

@@thodorisevangelakos No? Light infantry only moves by walking. When was the last time you saw SF do that? They're usually mounted in light vehicles or transported in helicopters etc. If we're talking about the true light infantry doctrine (i.e. only moving around with combat gear and not also sustainment) then it's been decades since that was fielded by a major military. And that's sort of the point why SF can afford so little protection, because they'll usually have a heli on standby to pick up any wounded so they only need protection against what will easily kill them (such as rifle rated plates over the thorax). When SF do long range patrols, they'll usually not wear any armour at all because it doesn't matter whether your armour saves your life when you're still wounded with no way of getting help.

It's because of their purpose/specialty. Special Forces go light because they are mainly incharge of Reconnaissance, Intelligence, and Quick and Precise Assaults, while operating in smaller number/units. They need to go fast so they go with lighter gears. Not only that, they do patrols and recon for long ranges by only foot or smaller vehicles Meanwhile main infantry goes with more heavier and larger armor, and armored vehicles, because their main focus as the infantry is to seize, destroy, and capture heavily fortified or guarded positions. They operate in huge numbers. And seizing or capturing key positions requires you more armor as more threats will be handed in their way. But nothing is obsolete. The gear would still depend based on the mission.

Interesting

In a nutshell: Soldiers are geared to survive hits to better avoid the unpopular death count. Operators are about inflicting direct casualties and are geared to facilitate better killing capabilities and moving to avoid being hit while closing in for kills. TLDR: Soldiers survive and operators kill.

@matthiuskoenig3378

3 ай бұрын

its more that if enemy artillery and mortars are shooting your operators, you are useing your operators wrong. regular infantry being shot at by mortars and artillery is unavoidable.

Special forces are better funded and usually get armor that is lighter in weight while equal or better in terms of protection. Also the need to operate autonomously means you shed every ounce of weight you can.

Imagine a medieval knight with full scale armor and then think of a horseman with light body armor preferably leather, soft armor, and a Turkic traditional shortbow. It is of course way flexible and maneuverable than the medieval knight. Though it can also be said that the horseman should be aggressive and have a higher pace than the knight. Horseman depends on its momentum to evade, attack and sometimes retreat. It is the matter for SpecOps, too. Having the maneuverability is important for the elite troops since they are not completely depending on heavy armor and they need to stay aggressive with minimum energy against an enemy contact. Plus, SpecOps are basically shock troops. They are the attackers and not defenders.

fyi most normal non special forces army soldiers have the smaller plate carriers. You will get issued the bigger model but more then likely when you deploy (after 2020 at least) you will get issued the smaller one. or if your on your second term you probably bought your own. (im a normal person in the army)

Specialty crews rely on surprise to catch the enemy with their pants down so they can shoot first. Generic soldiers are treated more like bullet sponges that they send into a trap and are more likely to get hit by someone that knows they are coming.

Special Forces= US Army Green Berets (They literally wear a SPECIAL FORCES tab) Rangers, CAG, MARSOC= Special Operations Forces. DEA is neither SF nor SOF. Hope you've learned something today 🙂

the german idt es system also uses tge fast helmet

Welp, the needs, dangers and priorities of covert missions vs a fully fletched war differ like day and night.

The video shows US Federal Police authorities mostly not elite military groups. Plate carriers for Police is just dumb. These are whanna be SF guys trying to play soldier. As a retired Police officer I argued against this crap within my agency for our teams. Soft body armor stops handgun rounds not just shrapnel. SAPI plates and hard armor stops rifle bullets. The SWAT guys drop the wrap around soft armor and put plates in carrier that provide minimum cover protection. Police are killed by handgun rounds mostly, not shrapnel or rifle bullets. Military personnel are killed and injured by rifle rounds and shrapnel.

Most Special Forces operators are also soldiers.

Great video casper. What about a video on Russian bullpup rifles? ADS, A91, Groza etc.

@casperarms

3 ай бұрын

It's a good idea, but to be honest, I'm not sure that most people will be interested in it. I mean, I try to pick topics that are interesting facts and answer the question. For this reason, I do not make any weapons or equipment out of a number of reviews, except for the video about the 3 rarest AK (but this was rather an exception, because it seemed to me a super interesting idea). In general, it's worth thinking about, maybe I'll find some interesting questions there that I can ask

@Bigcat726

3 ай бұрын

Maybe use these guns titled spetznaz and fsb secretive weapons, please introduce the Ashe-12 50 cal assault rifle as well there’s little information about it too

@thekraken1173

3 ай бұрын

@@casperarms Np

Simple answer. Because different situations require different equipment.

SF has a need for speed and violence of action. Grunts are in the field being shot at with every weapon on the battlefield including 152mm and FAB.

Speed is life. The best armor you can get is not getting shot at all

4:35 yeah, everyone saw how heroic were FSB operators _WAITING_ outside for 2 hours in their full armor when someone wanted to 'blow the place up' in krokus 👌🤣

The lector sounds like NoHo Hank from "Barry" and you can't unhear it now

@casperarms

3 ай бұрын

This can almost be called a compliment, after comparing my accent with Ivan Drago and other great guys like Peter Stromae and John Malkovich, who often play brutal Russians 😂

Could be a logical reason why halcyon operatives wear scout armor while TRU/ETF wear frontline armor

Special Operations forces are most often used in very high speed offensive operations where speed and mobility provide greater advantage than heavier armor.

Civilians should mostly focus on front, back, side plates that are quality You’re not gonna be doing solo raids on buildings but if mobility is what you need invest in a chest rig I wouldn’t waste your time buying slimmer plates You need to be able to carry a lot ammo & water

Stealth and comfort go hand-in-hand. I wouldn’t want to scratch my butt to give off my position.

We have plate carriers in the infantry too. You are wrong on so many points. We also do raids and mobility is just as important for regular infantry.

That's why you have a minimum of two sets of kits.

Simple Answer. Soldiers are not exactly the kind to go on operations required of quick and swift action. This is where special operation units come in, trained to be elite killers who can also move very quick.

One of them is a noob and the other one is a pro. In the context of skill issue, regular military has less training than an SF.

During Second Karabakh War(27 september - 10 november 2020) Azerbaijan suffered 2907 KIA on witch about 95-98% are from shrapenel wounds. 2-5% are from direct bullet wounds and it consist of loses of Azerbaijani Special Forces.

It has to do with the rate of artillery expected on the battlefield. If they don't expect to encounter any they use the smaller carriers and helmets. US special forces making raids on the taliban started the trend.

Mission dictates what you wear and carry. Conventional troops have less bulky plate carriers now because they are focusing back on fighting a near peer, not counter-insurgency and security operations where the biggest threat would be IEDs and VBIEDs. It doesn’t really have much to do with being SOF, except that we had a bit more freedom and funding to procure those items and use them. Infantry forces are NOT the same as they were before the conflicts in Iraq and A-Stan. Their gear has been improved.

Whatever armor I'm using, I still die due to the leg meta. Or being one tapped through the armpit. Tarkov

For SF guys concern a plate carrier is way easier to adapt to mission than a more traditional armored vest. Placards, back panels, zip on pouches, hangers not even to mention you can't conceal a whole armored vest without looking like the michelin man. Plate carriers are just more comfortable. It's been a debate since Vietnam with flak vests vs VBA or nothing. As for shrapnel soft armor will help with low velocity low energy shrapnel like from a hand grenade. But anything roughly bigger than 75mm it's luck. 80mm mortar shrapnel can penetrate a bmp and 155 shells can launch shrapnel up to and past 5000 fps and can by random size and weight. So it's sorta questionable what the soft armor will realistically protect from outside of frag past 100 feet or so. TLDR; Someone did a risk assessment about rifle protection being only in the plate and decided that the mobility gains by dropping 15 lbs of kevlar was worth the risk for mobility, adaptability and comfort for less frag protection for the sides and stomach. Which one is better? It depends and it's not super clear and frag protection is complicated and not straight forward.

Correction: Russia uses cardboard

The plate carriers the regular soldiers use are old and have not been subject to the change in doctrine of the past few years. The plate inserts themselves are the exact same plates used by both regs and spec ops. therefore, provide the same protection regardless of how the vest 'looks'. The older vests have more webbing for more equipment attachment points, but modern doctrine among vets dismiss all the extra attachments as extra weight you have to carry (with the exception of side plates) The minimalism of newer vests is designed to improve mobility while cutting down weight while providing the same protection. All the new upgrades the regular soldiers field testing at the moment are smaller vests like the Crye SPC. compare that to the magnum tac-1 which is the current service plate carrier. SF units are always going to be equipped with newer, different gear. What ends up working for them always trickles down to the regs after a decade. It's not really a question of specialization between one or the other because the kit is modular and multi-purpose anyway. But instead it's governed by cost effectiveness and overall budget of the armed forces.

Mobility helps with not getting shot. Not getting shot keeps you alive. Real enemies wont aim for captain Americas shield with 100% accuracy

soldiers wear big armored vests for obvious reason... it makes it harder to run away... fewer deserters

Something I've noticed on Russians in Ukraine is that it's quite popular for them to switch their issued 6B45 armour with a private purchase plate carrier, but they will then often add on additional groin, neck, and shoulder protection.

Same thing goes to the differences between FAST helmet and ECH Helmet. FAST helmet is ideal for special operation and low intensity conflict that's why it was favoured by special forces, while ECH Helmet were more suitable for high intensity conflict and conventional warfare such as trench warfare, so it is primary used by conventional soldiers.

@fridrekr7510

3 ай бұрын

A lot of regular forces are switching over to high cut FAST helmets recently. I guess it has more to do with the proliferation of active hearing protection and communication equipment down to the individual infanteer than anything else.

there's one very simple reason, mobility. special forces need mobility because of the nature of the missions they are usually used for.