This is what we want on the Internet, not some fake programming gurus

@shreksthongg

4 жыл бұрын

lmao so true

@igorordecha

4 жыл бұрын

As a millionare, ex-Google, ex-Facebook engineer

@kalaiarasanpushpanathan9904

4 жыл бұрын

@@igorordecha Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well :D

@felipe2fp

4 жыл бұрын

So true, this guy deserve my subscription

@cloerenjackson3699

4 жыл бұрын

I've really never seen anybody approach the difficulties programmers face this way. It's interesting.

"Is all I'm here for just to write code, make money and purchase things?" Jesus Christ this cut me deep

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

Jesus Christ cut me deep 🤣. You’ll understand if you watch the “My Recovery from Programmer Anger” video. 😉

@another-person-on-youtube

3 жыл бұрын

@@HealthyDev I'll have to watch then. Thanks for this video. Comforting to see so many comments from devs. I'm not alone.

@finonomastropiero4261

3 жыл бұрын

Still, Id like to get to that void point in my life . Then frustrate, then watch this aeesome videi

@ivanmikodanic4006

3 жыл бұрын

@@finonomastropiero4261 Trust me you wouldn't... It hits you really hard haha. But good luck ;)

@thegreatawakening3601

3 жыл бұрын

Stephen Anthony that’s the definition of miserable.

The cognitive overload is a HUGE one for me. And then you have managers telling you that you should know everything that everyone on the team is doing and everything that’s going on in the business and all the plans for the future and then all the task switching and jira boards and emergency emails etc etc etc. It just gets incredibly overwhelming.

Wow! Wish I'd seen this video 15 years ago when I retired from software development for many of the described reasons. Money can buy you guitars but if the guitars just sit in the corner because you're too busy to learn to play or to perform, then that money isn't buying happiness. It's just decorating your so-called life.

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I wouldn’t have been able to see this stuff clearly enough to make this video 15 years ago! 🤣

@predragbalorda

Жыл бұрын

Why? You retired when you were supposed to and good for you! Programming is shit anyways. Just controlling things. No interaction with sane humans, no social life, just code and money. Faq that.

I quit that career after 11 years, and went into manual labor. I literally day dreamed about moving boxes in a factory. It was the best decision I ever made. I get tired in my body instead of exhausted in my head every day. I just feel more satisfied. I brought coding back into just a hobby, then I stopped altogether because I just wasn't interested anymore. If you do daydream about using your hands like I did. I say do it. Even though the work I do isn't really important I still feel like I'm accomplishing a real job each day, and I sleep well

@ultiumlabs4899

Жыл бұрын

Glad to hear that. I agree that programmers really "burn" their brain everyday.

@dudeimstoned5141

Жыл бұрын

Omg for real? But your pay will be cut like by 10-20 times right? Legend if this really happened.

@shadowmaster452

Жыл бұрын

Is this actually real dude? I just... I kinda hate having to tire my brain out, I always loved the idea of just doing anything involving my body, I wanted the army at first but couldn't due to health stuff, however even the idea of just moving boxes like you do seems so more attractive than sitting behind a screen getting annoyed at something not working because of a single dot. It kinda makes me feel bad at times since I feel like the typical "no brains all brawn" guy but I don't know. Edit: I also feel afraid of these ideas since like the other comment mentioned, manual labor means having reduced income

@jacoberinc

Жыл бұрын

@@dudeimstoned5141 Unless you are in the top 5% of programmers then you really don't make that great of money. Solidly middle class is where the vast majority of programmers sit. When you consider the time spent keeping up to date on skills, and just thinking/stressing over code outside of normal workhours(due to aggressive deadlines). A relatively good programmer is looking at 60 - 80 hours a week spent on the profession (this isn't all spent in front of the computer). Average salary for a programmer in the US is around 90k. After adjusting for hours worked to maintain the profession you are making maybe 30% - 40% more per hour as a programmer.

@SpinningSandwich

Жыл бұрын

Big Office Space energy.

Sometimes people insist on getting an estimation and I say "3 months" and they go "wow that's ridiculous" and I'm like "well if you want a more accurate answer then give me time to investigate"

@zeronothinghere9334

4 жыл бұрын

@@ollydix Prolly "do an application"

@atk05003

4 жыл бұрын

I once gave a 3 year estimate. Turns out it was still too low.

@jdavid82

4 жыл бұрын

@@ollydix A financial advisory firm made a number of changes to their formulas and I had to translate those changes to C#. I didn't know the extend of the changes, the good thing is that we already had unit tests in place so we could put the same inputs in their system and compare it against the outcome of our unit tests, so in the end it only took about a week.

@jdavid82

4 жыл бұрын

@@ollydix Haha I also had a BA telling me "but... this is just a single page application!!! You should be able to get it done quickly, right?" and my answer to that was "well Facebook is also a single page application" O,O

@hereturbie7458

4 жыл бұрын

Just thought of something, but not sure: Asking a software developer for an estimate of how long it will take to code something is a bit like asking an author of fictional literature for an estimate of how long it will take to write their next novel.

Some tips for students and fresh graduates: 1. Don't be a perfectionist. If you are passionate about programming and didn't get into this just for money, then you probably always strive for best design and try to obey all good practices. But your manager and customer don't care. In the end software is just a tool and if it gets the job done, then it's already good enough. No one will appreciate beauty under the hood, so don't try to make a sports car if you're asked for a scooter. 2. Develop your soft skills. Let's be honest, programming is an ideal field for people with unusual personalities and/or huge egos. Learning a bit about psychology and negotiation will help you understand them and improve communication. Might also help with getting a raise. 3. Take another person's perspective. Your supervisor asks for impossible? You have the right to be angry, but what if he has to face even greater demands? Think about it before you lash out at him, it may save you from feeling like a total jerk later on. Try to find out what he really needs, maybe when he says "We need to finish this functionality by Wednesday." he really means "I need something I can show to the customer." but doesn't communicate it well enough. In this case there may be some room for negotiation. 4. Avoid touchy subjects. Don't discuss politics, religion etc. even if the company has relaxed atmosphere. There's little to be gained here and a lot to lose. 5. Strive for financial stability. You will feel much better knowing that if everything else fails, you can just walk out and slam the door.

@Lawrence908

7 ай бұрын

Great advice for life in general, i completely agree.

There are tons of developer out there who will teach you react, vue, angular, node, python but we need people like you who can teach us actual things which happen in software carrier, thanks please continue this we need more help on topics like this 🙏

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you’re finding value in this! Thank you. 👋

You may not realize, but this applies to way more other jobs and careers out there than you might expect. Which makes this video and topic even more important than it already is.

@alexandergu7797

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. As an upcoming high school junior aspiring to be in the computer science field, I find that many bits of advice given in this video have helped me look at my situation from a different perspective. For instance, his advice on not being afraid to ask for help definitely hit very close to home, as I had perceived myself as weak for asking people for help. Another piece of advice that I had found applicable was to further acknowledge and inform people of uncertainty. I had always felt incompetent for speaking about things without certainty. As CaptmagiKono said, I also found this video helpful and concur that these pieces of advice are readily applicable outside your intended audience.

@interwebzful

3 жыл бұрын

also agree. i'm a scientist in academia that codes and found that the majority of points this guy makes are relevant to either an experience i've had or am having. not the one about getting paid tons, though, LOL

@Canleaf08

3 жыл бұрын

But having and keeping a job is better than having none.

@fzigunov

3 жыл бұрын

Similar to me in my past career in mechanical engineering. I think any highly technical discipline has the same issues!

@michaelnurse9089

3 жыл бұрын

Thief! You stole my comment! I worked in auditing/accounting for a long time, and it was exactly the same. I still wake up sweating sometimes remembering stupid small jobs from 15 years ago were I was given bs estimates to complete the work. To say nothing of the number of times I was flat out told to compromise the quality.

The thing that saved me was I stopped caring. I still care enough to get the job done, and do a good job, but I don't care beyond that. Caring was killing me. Now I care about other things in my life more, and that's where I get the fulfillment I was looking for. Excellent video. Subscribed and liked.

@sk660

3 жыл бұрын

This is still very hard and painful for me...

@beldiman5870

3 жыл бұрын

Dont worry be an asshole. It is the best attitude. Peace

@farhanghazali8339

3 жыл бұрын

This is a good advice. This also have saved me.

@mamuf

3 жыл бұрын

Everyone who cares too much is prone to burn out. I'm in that pot as well. Hopefully I am reflecting on it soon enough I can overcome this. I've already learned to not care about at least some things, or at least not care that much. Once people like us realize it's not worth both their mental and physical health, they actually do something with it, with themselves, to avoid such damage.

@tipeon

3 жыл бұрын

In my case, I wouldn't say that I stopped caring, I just give credit (or blame ... yeah, mostly blame) where credit is due. You give me an unreasonable deadline? Well, that's not my deadline, it's yours.

Your comments around falling into materialism after starting to rake in the money from dev-work, and subsequently falling into a mode of feeling purposeless, really rang true for me. I've been feeling that for some time, but I guess I never stopped long enough to articulate it, even unto myself. I appreciate that I'm not the only one who has gone through that. It seems almost shameful to feel that way, when so many of my goals and needs have been met, but it's a real thing. Thanks for this video.

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

You’re welcome. It’s one of the things we don’t talk about on the job, and a few people who aren’t there have given me some crap, but it’s not uncommon. Hope you’ve found some fulfillment in the face of all this. It’s hard to explain to people how financial “success” (which is fleeting) isn’t all it’s cracked up to be unless you’ve experienced it.

For me the most frustration thing in software development is the lack of comments in the legacy code. And, of course, there is no other kind of documentation either. I have probably spent more time on figuring out what the code is meant to do, than the original developers spent on coding the first release.

@dandymcgee

Жыл бұрын

I'm one of the verrrrrry few people who has ever written a comment in any codebase at an company I've worked at. I write comments everywhere, all the time. Useful ones. I sign them with my name and take accountability for them if they're wrong. I don't care if other people don't like them, but everyone has loved it so far, and some people have even started copying my style. You're welcome. Set a good example for others to follow, that's all most people need.

@bouchradahamni9881

7 ай бұрын

this is happen just two weeks ago and beside this no one is here to help you and you have to figure out everything by yourself

Not to gatekeep or anything but: I see many programming people on youtube that are like "Programming is easy, I can make a Python TCP socket in 2 minutes, server and client. You can too learn Python in a week". Sorry to burst your bubble but no you can't. Yes you can learn the basic syntax of a language in a week or 2, but not "programming". Programming is so much more difficult than anyone would like to admit, it isn't only the coding part. Hell, I'm coding around 50% of the time, the rest is spent thinking about the code (sometimes I lay in bed, I eat or do anything else that isn't me sitting at my pc). Some people have this idealistic view of "Oh, programming is just writing some lines of code and I can make the Witcher 3". There is a reason for a frontend and backend... I'm not trying to discourage anyone into programming or anything, I'll gladly help someone struggling with their projects, but the expectations must be kept realistic

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

I don’t see this as gatekeeping at all. This is just letting people know it can be difficult. I’ve chosen to focus on the relational and personal challenges with software on this channel only because in my experience that’s the biggest problem. While some people are clearly not cut out for programming, I see many who have loads of potential but aren’t given the support or time to succeed. Couple that with a “cog in a wheel” mindset where many companies think most programmers are basically the same so you can swap a more experienced person with a cheaper hire and have the same results, and the system then actively underdevelops the workforce. It’s in this environment where I believe programmers need more sophistication in dealing with people so they can protect the integrity of their craft enough to keep growing and deliver despite the dysfunctions you run into any time multiple people work together. Inexperienced managers can point to this attitude as perfectionism, but there’s a big difference between aiming for perfection and struggling to deliver absolutely unmaintainable code in the appearance of success by hitting deadlines. I’m guessing you already know all this, just putting it here as a clarification in light of your observations. 👍

@rednassie1101

3 жыл бұрын

@@HealthyDev Oh boy, changing programmers because "they are all the same". Trust me when I say I've seen plenty of people in my studies that are solely in it for the money. Most of them fail enough to drop out, but some manage to get their degree and live off the "I'll get paid more than if I hadn't gone for this" mentality. I'm currently struggling with the balance between finishing something really quick, then people will tell me "how difficult could it be if a just graduated student could do it that quickly", and delaying it with the "Other people can finish the same work in less time, hurry up" bullshit. I have to delay my work a little (just simply working less hours a day from home) to give my work more value than if I don't do that... How rediculous is that? It's not like I'm delivering subpar work, they tell me it's up to their standard, but if I don't delay, they think less of the task... Sorry, I just kinda wanted to vent a little :s

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

@@rednassie1101 this is when I like to ask people "I know you're under pressure to deliver, but if delivering products with the skillset of junior developers could produce everything, there wouldn't be any senior or lead developers. If I take longer to deliver a feature than a junior developer, it's because I'm protecting you from a bigger loss down the road. If you want me to stop offering you the full value I bring as a developer, I can take shortcuts that you have to cleanup later, but you'll have to explicitly ask me to do that."

@robertbeisert3315

3 жыл бұрын

A programmer can produce useful code in any language, if not always easily. Programming is about identifying a need, breaking the need into problems that need solving, breaking those problems into workable sub-problems, solving those sub-problems, assembling those solutions into grander solutions, and ultimately fulfilling that initial need. Coding is one aspect of solving the sub-problems - the rest is about planning, integration into the overall system or design, analysis and optimization, documentation... Just because I can unclog a toilet doesn't make me a plumber. Being able to write some JavaScript, Java, Python, Fortran, etc. doesn't make you a programmer.

@soupedenuit

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah anytime I see a blog post, tutorial or documentation telling you it can be done in 30 mins is really telling you that you can get it done in 30 mins if you already have lots of experience in the related tech/API.

"My boss is an idiot, and all my colleagues are incompetent" - every employee ever everywhere

@punkyagogo

3 жыл бұрын

I think imposter syndrome is more likely where the opposite is true, especially with new employees, but yeah, the former probably holds true for jaded employees that have been at a company for a while.

@merritt2014

3 жыл бұрын

That's why I liked working at my place for a while since the bosses in my field are people that were already doing your old job and just got promoted. So they actually knew what they were talking about and were easy to work with. Now upper management on the other hand is nothing but idiots of course, but that applies to probably any job.

@craigedwards2411

3 жыл бұрын

I am an ignorant, not giving a shit any more programmer and I can tell you that you are correct.

@tsumardi

3 жыл бұрын

worst of all those hotshots that they think they know and code all night long producing tons of garbage code of what I called vomit code that we all need to maintain. "see mr.manager, I produce code." don't get me started on code review... heck my 8 years old can code too, everyone can code. sickening. join or start github project or something and vomit there.

@campkira

3 жыл бұрын

when you skill can be outdated before you finsih your degree.. that when you best not to work in that industry...

You have no idea how much I wish I could have seen this a year ago. As a junior-mid engineer struggling to get out of a pigeonhole in a crummy part of the industry, thank you so much for this!

@HealthyDev

Жыл бұрын

Happy to help! It's a great job, just keep going and try to learn from your mistakes. That's the best we can all do!

Thank you. I have been programming computers professionally since 1986. I still love it and the constant learning over my career has kept my brain agile. Your words ring very true, and I've found what keeps me positive and empathetic is to gently help others get better at what they do (vs belittling them) and in turn learn from everyone. You don't know it all regardless how long you have been doing it or how intelligent you are. You are also not perfect so cut yourself a break when you slip up and fall down that path you know is wrong. Just keep steering toward what is right.

3rd year in a computer science course and all this emerging trending technologies are killing me. Opportunities want the capabilities of a whole IT department in one person... I'm regretting loving computing in the first place... being a farmer would have probably been easier and still as satisfying

@silentlessons4221

3 жыл бұрын

Oh man I feel you. I completed my degree in CS with a first class in 2018. The emerging technologies and the requirements to know about 5 of them in one go its just plain crazy. By the time u finish mastering them the company gets taken over by somebody else and new trends are introduced. Its a night mare indeed. Frankly I regret too loving CS. I hv seen people who r mechanical engineers for example hving a great time since the core technology is still the 40s tech with easy to master current innovations. They dont hv to keep learnign about new engine systems and all things. Am in Africa currently and there is a farmer I know who is just enoying his life. I sometiems look at him and think to myself what on earth am I doing.

@vichu000

3 жыл бұрын

@@silentlessons4221 that is very correct, I did not want to become a doctor as my cousin was all the time studying, now CS engineer is the same.. Eventually my cousin stop studying.. Gained experience and became well paid.. But I keep studying after 20 years in CS field... I made a mistake. Like is not to keep up, like is to arrive and enjoy... No arrival for me..

@kosbebot6360

3 жыл бұрын

Go look for videos about Cow scratchers. Farming will look even more fun :)

@grail9558

3 жыл бұрын

It’s easy to imagine another field being more exciting until you’ve actually worked in it. Kind of like the saying...” grass is always greener on the other side...”. Technology is a fast moving field and the job listings will always ask for an unrealistic amount of qualifications. Don’t let that stop you from applying. Be honest about your qualifications. Do your best to show that you have good fundamental knowledge and are willing and capable of learning new things.

@dopaminefilms3802

3 жыл бұрын

@@kosbebot6360wow....pretty sure there's no programming thats as satisfying to watch as watching cows,chicken,pigs or even just ducks enjoy themselves on a farm....thanks for the gold mine suggestion ;)

When pushing back it can be difficult to just say "no" to your superior. In such situations I have found it easier to give the boss or manager a choice: "You can either have it the way you want in 6 weeks, or you can have it in 3 weeks but we will need to compromise on feature X, or code quality." This way the manager gets to make the final decision of how to spend the company's money. You're not the stubborn bad guy. (Whispers: And you can often present the choices in a way that will get the response you want!)

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

Good advice. If you haven’t seen it already, you may get some other ideas for saying no more effectively from another video I did on the topic. It’s by no means exhaustive, but some things have helped me be more successful: kzread.info/dash/bejne/mXuIsbKoqLmso6g.html

@rishengopaldass1103

3 жыл бұрын

Nice one!!! Shows control and professionalism.

@sail4life

3 жыл бұрын

But there's still the danger of burning out if you are forced to operate against your personal values often. Compromising on code quality and clean code go against my personal values. Those compromises make me feel like a code whore as opposed to the artisan I really want to be.

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

@@sail4life yeah I understand. I think the key word in your reply is "often". We all have to compromise occasionally, but if we do it all the time - definitely a big cause for losing hope!!!

@nikahmadmimi3740

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah yeah.. and then they started saying bad things about your code and your incompetentcy on solving issues. and you stressed out having to explain the short time given

The lack of QA is what was getting me down at the start of my career. Always being told to forget about testing because there wasn't time. Always being under pressure by insane deadlines that could only be met by cutting every corner. Always releasing buggy code, hoping that the customer would never find out just how bad it was. Whatever pride you might have had in your job is quickly beaten out of you. Lately though, what's had me reconsider my choice of career is the emergence of the gig-economy. So much work is now outsourced to consultants and freelancers. There seems little place left of programmers working within the company itself. You might be hired for a few months. Maybe a year if you're lucky. But there's always the threat of getting fired without warning, often without being given a reason. How can you build a family life when you can't hold a job for more that a year at a time? Sure, you can complain about it all, but what's the point? Even if you could afford to leave (and many of us can't), it's nearly always a case of new-boss-same-as-the-old-boss. It's incredibly stressful to be always living on the edge, always facing long grueling hours in order to meet impossible deadlines. You don't survive for long in that kind of environment without getting incredibly cynical. So yeah... I hate my job. And I've got no hope left. It's a rotten nasty world out there, and I see no sign of things getting better anytime soon.

@josephquezada6138

Жыл бұрын

why not just stay for the experience and move on to a job with more freedom later, even freelance?

Your first point hits home SO hard. I'm a perfectionist and HATE cutting corners. Even on my own personal projects, it pains me so much to cut corners and stray from the best practice. I'm actually in awe because this is the first time I've heard someone speak out about this. Strange how most programming-youtubers pretend it's all sunshine and rainbows.

I'm a 22 year old software dev just starting out in the industry and i have already been faced with many of these problems. Thank you so much this is exactly what i needed to understand. You caught me before i trapped my self in a vicious cycle. Moving forward i will be more cognoscente of these things and continue to improve my self.

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

You have no idea how happy it makes me to think that people like you might not make some of the mistakes I did! ❤️

@DryPsylocibin

3 жыл бұрын

You're blessed if you start out with some warnings many had to learn the hard way. Or unfortunately, many never learned at all. If I may hand you one piece of advice with my limited 12 years of experience: don't stay longer at some job than necessary when you're starting to feel underappreciated, stuck or overly frustrated. There's gonna be some downsides everywhere but a change of environment can be incredibly eye-opening. It's easy to start feeling very loyal to a company and completely responsible for the software you create. It becomes a matter of ownership and pride. But trust me on this one... It is entirely possible to walk away, never ever look back and accept it's their responsibility now. Always put out good work with a sense of care for whoever will maintain it, be it your or someone else, but understand that it's THEIR software and they accept both the good and the bad.

@peterbelanger4094

Жыл бұрын

Pace yourself, pay attention to HOW you use the computer. poor ergonomics can put someone "on the bench". I have foolishly been using a computer wrong for over 25 years and now carpal, and other bad ergonomic injuries have made long sessions working frustrating and painful. Not to mention one's vision changes with age and reading things on the screen can become frustrating. So, take care of yourself, don't grind in front of the screen for hours and hours, get up take breaks, exercise, stay healthy. I gave up hope because my body no longer plays along with me.

@Youvko

Жыл бұрын

@@peterbelanger4094 oh my gosh 😅 I am swd for 11 years + 5 years of education. And all 11 years was thinking that that herman miller is too expensive for me. Even though I earn 3-4 those chairs a months, I still can't allow it to myself. It's just crazy. I grumpy old men while being 32 years old 😅

@peterbelanger4094

Жыл бұрын

@@Youvko I'm 52, it gets worse. No chair is perfect. What our bodies need is to be moving around. I have found that a pet is a good "nag" to remind me to get up and stretch and take my eyes off the screen. Decided to get into hobby electronics and 3D printing to see if I can come up with new controller ideas.

I was so frustrated that everyone in the company was so incompetent and literally every one of them were bothering me with questions and requests. One day I threw a hissy fit at a QA who was always good to me. All he said was, "I am sorry that you are going through this. It is okay if you yell only at me". I feel so ashamed now and I can't be same with him anymore.

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

Great story. I've been stopped in my tracks by people who are compassionate in the face of my frustration too. It's humbling!!

@TitaniumTronic

2 жыл бұрын

Woah thats a good QA!

My two finest achievements in life have been learning to code for a living and learning to play the guitar to a good standard and they have both followed exactly the same pattern...whilst the frustrations never go away, the ratio of them vs the cruise control eventually flips over and your confidence in yourself to get out of whatever jam you are in steadily goes up...

@SHAAADOWWW794

Жыл бұрын

@@firstLast-jw7bm keep in mind that frustation level depends , on much do u love certain " skill " how much passion u have for it. if u love something frustration cant never stop you , but if you are doing something just for the sake of money , its gonna be hard

@Youvko

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's like "forever student". With that amount of languages, patterns, architectures, tools it's just impossible to know everything. But reading a bit about everything helps a lot, cause sometimes you get an answer even without working with some tool just because u heard about it.

I don't work in software, but this advice applies to other fields as well. I got rid of all the negative people in my small business and suddenly the employees are taking pride in their work, going on to develop other related skills, and encouraging their friends to join us. Customers call to give us good reviews regularly and our business is growing.

I have been programming for over 40 years now, and I still think it is fun every day. The key is to never consider it as a job but as my very interesting hobby, with people paying me to solve puzzles. :-)

@peterpopov2937

3 жыл бұрын

That's why you sir, unlike most people, are a legend :-)

@Bestgamingclipsoftheyear

3 жыл бұрын

Jesus you must be racking the dough with 40 years of swe

@TerjeMathisen

3 жыл бұрын

@@Bestgamingclipsoftheyear I have never had wealth as a life goal, just to make enough that I never need to worry about money. That is actually quite easy if you never buy anything except real estate with cash. I.e. save up first, spend later. That said, one of my programs had a 3-4 year period as one of the best sellers in Norway, so this paid for our Telemark mountain cabin. :-)

@SailingYachtSaltyLass

3 жыл бұрын

The programming was never the issue - my issues were caused by unrealistic expectations of customers, colleagues, etc.

@dl9926

3 жыл бұрын

@@TerjeMathisen now this is the way of life, wealth is nothing. More like, find the meaning

"Am I here just to write code, make money and purchase things"- Wow that hits so hard!

@NGC1433

3 жыл бұрын

Why? Where do you come from? What culture produces so empty and shallow people? How did you even gather the will to enter the field if you have no purpose to speak of? I mean, my work is like fourth thing for me, something I do to pay my bills. But my goals, my pleasures and my struggles are absolutely elsewhere. What the hell do you expect from your career other than make money? Provide you with a system of life values? Inspire you to make great art? I can't even... Yes, you passed all the tests and interviews and got that job exactly to fucking sit there, write code and get paid for that. Why would that hit you hard??? What sort of grown up's consciousness DLC did you expect as a byproduct of having a job?

@VC-kj9yx

3 жыл бұрын

Chup chutiye

@maximusthegreatest

3 жыл бұрын

@@NGC1433 How you spend your time matters.

I am a nurse going into software development and this video is a great "heads up". I've been a nurse for almost 17 years and burned out hard about a year ago. It's good to hear someone be actually honest about pitfalls and things to be aware of going in. Great video!

@Youvko

Жыл бұрын

Pay attention to core knowledge. And you can start as QA, while its a bit easier and you will get less income its software development already and you will be able to learn.

@Youvko

Жыл бұрын

While this video is a kind of joke, it still a good starting point to get into software development. Go through each point and read about it, or watch a video. kzread.info/dash/bejne/X6mgx6mYhsjJmdY.html no need to dive dip, just understand what it is and go to another point.

@07Flash11MRC

Жыл бұрын

What's QA?

@Youvko

Жыл бұрын

@@07Flash11MRC quality assurance engineer, the person who is testing software, manually by clicking different buttons, or in automated way by writing scripts.

@ultiumlabs4899

Жыл бұрын

are you sure want to be software developer? as a backend engineer I would say it has difficult roadmap to be an expert, comparable to be a doctor I think.

Wow, your thoughts are so deep. Really valuable look on the job. You pin pointed the crux of the issue. The first step is to recognize the issue, as there is a lot of tensions from the lack of clarity about the emotions.

Hey man, thanks for this video. Im not a programmer though. I am an electrician. I've been doing it for 21 years, and I am feeling super burnt out. I watched your video because I figured that our jobs are similar in the sense that we build and produce a product and have expectations put upon us that are many times unrealistic. I feel like most of what you said can be applied to my career as well. Your concepts aren't just for programmers. I ultimately think I need to get out of being a construction electrician and be a maintenance electrician. But I appreciate this video in my time of mental burnout.

@onlinebaas

Жыл бұрын

Good luck and give yourself some space to recharge. I feel your pain.

@ultiumlabs4899

Жыл бұрын

why do you get burned out?

When first started programming after I graduated from college, my coworkers were cruel and toxic. Every little knowledge that they had, they made sure that it was only them that knew it. All I know is that, I did not want to end up like them. Got out of that company and did consultanting work, and saw that you get a lot more done sharing information and working as a team. I also learned how to get other people to do work for you 😭

@DryPsylocibin

3 жыл бұрын

Really great developers won't keep things to themselves. In fact, they'll chase you down a hallway to breathlessly talk about some exciting thing they discovered. True passion isn't possessive, it desires to be shared.

@TheRealWindlePoons

3 жыл бұрын

My job has taken me to many different employers. I first worked for my last employer 25 years ago. Everyone was protective of their knowledge ("Its for me to know and you to find out.") which didn't help anyone. I wasn't a newbie and when my new colleagues saw that I freely shared my knowledge, they started to share theirs. Today it is a totally different place. They even mentor college grads now. If you can't persuade your team to share the knowledge it is definitely time to look elsewhere though.

@redf7209

3 жыл бұрын

I worked with a team who really worked to bring me up to speed and give me new skills but i always kept coming to the same issue of not knowing where things were stored when I needed them. I relied on another team for this information and it was often hard to get the information i wanted. I was always thinking that i was not explaining properly or it was because i did not know what i didn't know to make the right requests. One day I was having a long conversation with this team and a newer person came along asking for something and were given a deliberately wrong steer. I asked why they did this and they plainly said that they didn't want new people taking their jobs. This despite the fact their work had previously belonged to another team.

@redf7209

3 жыл бұрын

@@DryPsylocibin These are the best. People who are where they are because they are interested. People who live and breath IT even when not at work, self taught from childhood, training themselves, keeping up to date themselves. IT mentality is experiential like a language (above coding languages). Its why companies recruiting look to experience before qualifications. Then there are people who moved into these areas because of pay or because it sounded good or employer re-organizations put them there. For these the attitude can be that they think they can just go on a training course paid by their employer and then continue to put in 9-5, switch off all interest afterwards and be equal rated employees to the ones you refer to. Soon as long hours appear or work becomes mentally arduous they are looking for promotion or sideway moves to escape and any deficiency in their skill is due to the employer not sending them on enough training courses

@bryana531

3 жыл бұрын

"Is all I'm here for just to write code, make money and purchase things?" Jesus Christ this cut me deep

Thank you so much for this video! Often times I felt like the job that I'm doing is too hard or that I don't fit.. It was nice to hear that I'm not alone with this and that I need to shut down that voice in my head that I'm worse than others or that it would be humiliating to ask for help :)

I feel so empathetic hearing all the five points you mentioned in this video why programmers tend to lose hope. I have experienced this myself, especially meeting deadlines and compromising on quality of code, lack of testing and staying longer at work than required to ensure my code doesn't break the entire pipeline. It does get stressful sometimes, but lately I noticed that my productivity has improved when I started taking preliminary steps before someone gives me tasks, anticipating what the problems can arise during production. I respect the point that you mentioned about standing up for yourself and not letting other people dictate how long it should take for you to write a certain piece of code, especially if they never engaged themselves with contributing towards the logic that you have been writing.

This dude is spittin. I didn’t even know I was allowed to have these feelings

Oh my god, the time management software. I don't think management types understand how hindering it is to log all the daily minutia (so they can say I'm not meeting quotas) when I've got other stuff to do with that time, like say, meet unrealistic timeframes.

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed. You may get some insight from, or at least relate to another video I did about precisely that topic, “Should You Really Measure Progress on Software Projects?”: kzread.info/dash/bejne/Yq2syMRmlNXSdZc.html

@halfbakedproductions7887

Жыл бұрын

And you get it wrong by 30 milliseconds or file it a minute late, only to get some scary discipline warning e-mail 10 weeks later CCed into 40 other people and demanding answers. It's like being in court.

What great advice. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and experience! I think the main thing that pushes people to not say "no" to completely stupid expectations and asshole bosses is that they're afraid of what others think of them. All of these problems you point out are the result of immaturity. Obviously it's not just a software developer problem; I was in the military and I saw this crap first hand ALL the time and it lead to the exact same problems as you pointed out here (yes, the military in fact does NOT have its shit together and it never actually did- it's just always been good at pretending it does). Many people are simply emotionally immature because their parents haven't taught them basic things like empathy and treating others with respect and kindness, much less patience. Having humility is important and many people seem to lack that. If we all reminded ourselves that we're actually not better than anyone else it will lead to better treatment of people all around. I will never understand why some people feel the need to drag others down just because they feel shitty about themselves or their life. I teach my kids to make it a point to look out for people who are lonely or scared or ostracized and try to make friends... or at MINIMUM just talk to them. Some people are really hurting and need the help that you might be able to give them!

This is so relevant BEYOND Developers! WOW spot on dude thank you!

Been in the Software industry for 20 years now .. since 2000.. programmer at core.. a Tech ProgMgr now I am feeling frustrated I am not able to keep up with docker, CI CD, ML , Mobile , Integration (BTS) and web Dev ( angular/ SPA / MVC).... and Microservices.... Cloud ... ohh man its hard .. its so Hard.. its so many articles.. so much of catch up code .. its was easy a 10 years back .. Java / VB and SQL certificate is all that you need... now its like the medical fields.. hyper specialization .... is needed and being a generalist .. curiosity kills.... Other Non tech people ( Functional / Pure Management ) in the company .. think its still the same as 10-15 years back.. I feel empathy for the new Dev coming in .. as this is not a complex field .. with to much to catch up .. and sad that non-tech, still feel they can read a article on the train on Microsrvices and think they no it ... and say scalable and agile ... ha ha ! This video is fantastic

@bossgd100

4 жыл бұрын

Just be agile bro

@markistheone947

4 жыл бұрын

Don't know if it will help, but you forgot to also add k8s, terraform, aws, azure, oci, agile, scrum, kanban, ml, computer vision, mentoring, augmented reality and the eventually brew and serve coffee, as it seems that is in every job requirements these days.

@michaelwenzl8219

4 жыл бұрын

@@markistheone947 coffee brewing is essential!

@bencroacademy

4 жыл бұрын

Am from the VB6 days and C++. Stuff used to be so easy. Till the java train shot for the stars with frameworks left right now center. I have had to embrace it and now dabbling with the new trendy stuff to keep psyched up. Otherwise am keeping my focus on one stack with a keen eye for platforms.

@flamehiro

4 жыл бұрын

it's because they overcomplicate shit for no reason lmao

Finally someone agrees with the voices in my head. My advice for new grads make money early by going through this early ASAP and start your own business. Programming start as a science and becomes an art at the end. Don’t let these assholes ruin your creativity and art work. Remember at the end of each line of code you should be able to think about it as your art work and smile.

@teslascoop2177

3 жыл бұрын

Yep - you are not alone..

@okaysoanyways2645

3 жыл бұрын

Starting your own business isn't just rainbows and cupcakes neither people need to stop thinking that just because they don't like being told what to do that that means they automatically need to start a business

I just found this recently while I feel lost in my carrer path in College as a Computer Science Student. Felt unmotivated due to me being overworked on program deadlines and eventually I got sick.. But these videos are a huge help. Will be subscribing to your channel This means a lot...

This is what I was looking for. I'm starting my career as software engineer and I get anxious listening to people talking about complaining about this and that, burn out, and other scary stuff. I just want to do what I'll do for several years. Thank you for sharing your experience and promote a healthy way to work with software and collaborate.

This video is the gospel. You, sir, with this video, have earned a "like" and "subscribe" more than any other KZreadr in the history of KZread. Bravo, Good Sir. Job well done.

@udlman

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed! A church should be built on the spot from where you made this video! :)

For me its was just unhealthy lifestyle, before my office job i played sports had a nice tan, basically was very physically active and pretty fit. Once i got the office job, i ate shitty city food, sat 8 hours a day in the office and another few hours at home programming personal projects. I got no exercise, no sun, i became white as hell lol a year later i got transferred to night shift and that's when i truly burned out and had chronic fatigue. 4 years later i don't work in the office anymore, i barely program my own stuff either because every time im about to sit down and get work done i become filled with like a pavlovian dread responce feeling like i really really really don't wanna work on whatever i gotta do. Ill never work in an office again, but i will get back to consistently working on personal projects, that stuff used to be fun i want it to be fun again. HEALTH IS NUMBER 1!!! When you're in good health you have a natural sense of well being, its like your "spirit" is able to come forth from within and you feel a unforced motivation to just do stuff and live. Good luck to all sedentary workers out there lol

@raphaq9192

3 жыл бұрын

hello man. i was about to ask in the comments but your story seems more apropiate to my doubt. so, would say that these complaints listed in the video go away when you do freelance jobs? im asking cause im thinking about learning programming for freelance jobs only, for the same reasons you said about office job. many thanks, be safe.

@ItsAllGoodGames

3 жыл бұрын

@@raphaq9192 I don't know for sure because i never really worked freelance. If you can avoid the office environment that's a great start. If your freelancing forces you to regularly spend 12 hours a day in front of a monitor, then it's not a good move in my opinion, cause you'll feel trapped by your freelance contract obligations if you feel like taking a break.

@sakayapapaya9589

3 жыл бұрын

I now work in construction. Sleep much better.

@ItsAllGoodGames

3 жыл бұрын

@@sakayapapaya9589 I worked construction briefly, i remember after a hard 8 hour shift i had way more energy than after an 8 hours office shift.

@Mustis1524

3 жыл бұрын

@@ItsAllGoodGames So what do you work with now if you don't mind me asking?

Barely two years working professionally and I already relate to some of the things you said here. Hopefully, I can put your suggestions to practice and make my career happier.

This was so awesome to watch. Thank you for sharing! ❤🙏

This is why I don’t work for anyone anymore. I got tired of the endless obsession with short time frames in all companies. The whole world has an obsession with doing things as fast as possible for no other reason than to do it as fast as possible. I see car factories trying to produce as much cars as they possibly can, only to see those cars parked on the street for longer than it gets used. I say to myself why did someone have to rush their work when there was no immediate need to rush their work? The world has more cars than we need already we aren’t in desperate need for more cars. Same thing with building applications. The moment you finish building something then it’s off to the next application. There’s no stopping or appreciating anything. You just produce and produce for the sake of making more money to pay for money you borrowed yesterday. The hamster wheel goes faster and faster but you don’t get anywhere.

@robertlopez6092

3 жыл бұрын

Danielle Douglas pretty much any menial job wants you to work fast. Factory jobs, construction, even in retail and restaurants everything is always about doing things quickly.

@aaronmorgan2300

3 жыл бұрын

@@robertlopez6092 I would agree with you (and others that have said similarly), that this exists almost everywhere. Ironically I do think it stems from technology giving us access to speed up production in almost every industry imaginable. Combine that with how the same technology has allowed the planet to be more interconnected than any other point in human history. Access to a global market equates to more selection for consumers, which breeds competition among providers, which I would imagine, forces businesses to work more efficiently than ever before. Efficiency often increases speed of production, with a cost to quality. The point made at 5:17 of this perception of difficulty/value I think is incredibly important, because my personal prediction is that it will get worse as technology gets more complex. More complexity leads to an increase of specialized professions; more specialized professions means the educational sector will focus more on what an individual "needs to know" and choose to ignore knowledge that come from other disciplines. In turn, the veil between the various disciplines will get further shrouded in more mystery, which leads to more misunderstanding, conflicts, and confusion. And to top that all off, it's interesting to consider that the increase of all of that negativity might help facilitate a desire for more autonomous systems, free of human interaction, paving the way for more technology that probably caused it in the first place.

@robertlopez6092

3 жыл бұрын

Aaron Morgan this is why I stopped using my engineering skills to build things for employers and I now only use my skills to build myself my own autonomous tools. In colonial times, the rich had slaves that did all the work for them and their families. Now I believe that technologies such as IoT are the new slaves of the up and coming class. I work much less than before but I have more than ever before. If you’re a mid-senior engineer in this modern day and you’re still working hard, then you are doing things wrong. The purpose of inventions is to make life easier not harder.

@rifewithpotatoes

3 жыл бұрын

@@aaronmorgan2300 That was already precisely my problem with the standard STEM fields in college, at least through the mid-level courses I got to as of two years ago. There was so much for major requirements to cover and so much within each individual class to get through that it became much more about rote learning of concepts than an exploration of their possible ramifications, but none of the concepts on their own was difficult or complex enough to be rewarding. My most useful learning in math, engineering, or programming classes was almost all done outside of class, unofficially and on top of the homework they assigned.

@aaronmorgan2300

3 жыл бұрын

@@rifewithpotatoes Yep, I'm attending a public college, going for a CS degree (which the college is decently known for), and I'm about midway through. Looking at the course requirements for the program, there is very little allowance to explore other disciplines. What's odd, is that despite that, I still don't feel like the program is thorough enough to cover things that I want to learn about (such as UI//UX) and I feel as though I need to go look for that education elsewhere, on top of my already difficult, time-consuming coursework. I think the pattern is that the educational system (in the U.S. at least) does not know how to adjust to how the globe is constantly changing, and as a result just doesn't work anymore. Although I certainly am fully for any given student being thoroughly prepared for their careers, I am also apprehensive to the idea of a person not having a decent amount of knowledge in other areas. Inevitably a person will be making decisions at some point in their life that requires knowledge in other areas, such as political science and the behavioral/social sciences. As a result, I would argue a person, as they exit from the school system, will take a lot of the information from the media, which is normally very skewed and uninformed. When that happens, there's a chance they'll be making life changing decisions, or potentially affecting public policy while not having the full story.

Mangers play a key role in absorbing pressure. Many times we are all spineless and become a YES man to every client demand but a manager (especially a technical and experienced one) can see the shortcomings and push back. I have worked under a manager for 5 years when I started my career. He used to fight with the Senior leadership for the team every time. Every one was happy under him, every one wants to work under him. As you said he was Empathetic. He won many awards because of his skills and overall cheerful and optimistic attitude. Unfortunately he got promoted to more senior roles, pulling him away from the core dev team. Now the team is being managed by a manager who is a YES man puts a lot of pressure on the team. The team members slowly started to resign one by one and the original team was all but gone in 6 months. Leadership/ People and Communication skills play a very crucial role along with technical skills once you advance in your career.

@HealthyDev

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing this. Great points all around. How someone can collect a paycheck for being told what to do and then just force others to comply is beyond me. That’s not managing - it’s being a pawn!

@abhilashbandi3866

4 жыл бұрын

@@HealthyDev BTW subscribed. Its a good thing that next two days are weekend.. need to cover many of your videos ;)... Did you make a video on transitioning from a individual contributor/ senior dev to a Technical Lead position by any chance?

@HealthyDev

4 жыл бұрын

This one doesn’t cover everything but I believe it’s on point with your question: kzread.info/dash/bejne/eKRp0bOyfrnFp9Y.html

@abhilashbandi3866

4 жыл бұрын

@@HealthyDev Thank you very much :)

@Rhodair

3 жыл бұрын

This describes most managers I've come across

Learned Helplessness. I really needed to hear this, thank you so much.

you put my thoughts into words so well, great video man.

I love the words "Cognitive Overload". It actually perfect fits so many situations at work. Having to provide ELI5, ELI10, ELI20, ELIBOOMER explanations to different groups of people on your team (junior engineers, managers, principals) is another layer of mental taxation above understanding the systems in the first place

I have 20 years professional experience and started coding at 12. I feel the constant flow of so called new tech and langage is killing us all. A long ago , when you learnt a langage you could use it for 10 years at least. Now i would say 5 at most. And it alls keep updating and chaning all the time. We are wasting time on this. People thinks switching to better techs will make them better coders ; instead they should become more competent about the language they have in hands.

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

I agree completely. I'm all for innovation but things do seem to be getting out of hand. There's a good chance you might get something out of two other videos on the channel related to your comment. "Why Are You Making Programming HARDER?" kzread.info/dash/bejne/pWxru49vdcrddqw.html and "New Framework Disease (NFD) in Software Development": kzread.info/dash/bejne/gHd5o6SmlqiYibQ.html

@gamergrill9629

3 жыл бұрын

I completely agree! Many of my friends are constantly changing between languages, trying to use the most recent one, but by doing that they don't give themselves the chance to get very proficient at one!

@rozrewolwerowanyrewolwer391

3 жыл бұрын

Companies want to use newest technologies and compete with each other. For this they need programmers who know these new technologies, when there is new one/more efficient, they should employ people who know it and end the cooperation with previous ones, there is nothing wrong in that, that is how free market works. Due to high requirements, programmers get high salary and if someone doesn't want to learn so fast, he may take for example one month break, during which he would catch up with new technologies and he would do it every year. If someone is genious he doesn't need it, people are different.

@lanpartyanimal3927

3 жыл бұрын

I completely agree. Within the last 6 years I finished a Master's in Software Engineering to bring my development skills up to date and it feels like I needn't have bothered. I received the highest grade in the School of Computing for the year but tech changes are moving so fast with the pace of updates to languages, CD/CI and cloud technology that there isn't enough time to get to grips with what was the current state of anything before your skills are already outdated again. You never get the time to get competent at anything anymore. And certainly not enough to get thru an interview if you are forced to change jobs.

@kevinmcfarlane2752

3 жыл бұрын

Everyone wants you to have 10 years commercial experience of the latest thing, even if you already are a generally experienced programmer in that particular paradigm. Then for each new role the number of complementary skills you're supposed to have keeps increasing. So having struggled to acquire skill S, for the next role you're expected to have S + T, U and V...

That bit on saying no with grace is so damn important (and so difficult)... I appreciate your honesty and kind atmosphere. Subscribed.

I really appreciate this video. I’m not a software programmer, but just appreciate your empathy for your fellow programmers. I feel a lot of what you said can be applied to other occupations and just life in general. So, thanks for sharing sir 🙏🏼

I never comment on KZread but damn, "High Income Forces Seeking Deeper Goals" really hit hard. The same thing Simon Sinek talks about in "Start with Why".

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

I love Simon Sinek! He has great humility and insights - absolutely. 👍

Nobody talks about this stuff outside HN comment threads. I love that you chose to make these videos.

@InfiniteDesign91

4 жыл бұрын

What is HN?

@jacobbdavis

4 жыл бұрын

Wow, found a fellow HN reader!

@Communist-Doge

4 жыл бұрын

@@jacobbdavis There are dozens of us! *Dozens!*

@TheSuperappelflap

3 жыл бұрын

@@Communist-Doge There are millions of us tho

@DielsonSales

3 жыл бұрын

@@InfiniteDesign91 Hacker News.

You're actually a genius at self introspection, and great at communicating it to others. Love this!

Just found this channel!!! This is a goldmine. Thank you, sir.

Dude, I'm 20 years of experience as Software developer and you just said exactly what I was thinking many, many, many times.

@dnlmed

4 жыл бұрын

Same here

Don’t know how this popped up in my feed but literally this has sort of solidified (the exact word I’m thinking of is on the tip of my tongue...) so many ways I’ve been feeling intuitively but haven’t been able to organize into actual thoughts. And I am the only programmer in my group of friends, so especially the money thing is so hard to relate to people, since we’re all in our early 20’s (I’m 24), and I’m the only one that makes decent money, so like the goal thing you described no one understands since all of them have the goal of just making money and hold the belief that once they do it will solve all their problems and make them happy. I try sharing my experience to show that it doesn’t, and in some ways the opposite, but I have to tread carefully since I don’t want to seem like I’m just acting better than someone else because of my job, since I’m not and literally don’t feel that way at all in my heart, but even still sometimes people interpret it that way regardless,, so like oftentimes I just won’t even try sharing how I feel because the meaning gets lost in transmission. Idk, but thanks for this video, I appreciate it Edit: I wonder how much of these kinds of feelings are subconsciously part of what’s been driving me towards trying to become a writer...

@HealthyDev

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the feedback and sharing your experience. It speaks highly of you that you are even aware your financial situation could put people off... I was pretty clueless about that early on and pissed off some people - luckily I had some chances to reflect and change. The world can never have too many good stories. If you feel like writing, I’ll bet it will help stay detached from drama at work? Music has done that for me (and having a family). When I let myself have healthy relationships and activities that have nothing to do with “progress” outside work, it amazes me how much more productive I am when I need to. Thanks again for your commentary I know others out there relate...

@thinkingaloud7925

4 жыл бұрын

It drove me to the point that I quit my job

@SushilSingh2005

4 жыл бұрын

Good thing I don't have to write my exact thoughts. Somebody have already done it for me. #DRY

You are absolutely right, and I thank you for this video. I would like to add that besides asking for help, asking for feedback is paramount - assumed you know how to do it. The opposite is true: I would like to think that I am never too busy not to give feedback when asked. I fully agree on communication and positiveness being even more important than the technical skills surrounding you. Listening to this video made me understand that we should not be compromised in us being kind people even in a professional setup. Thank you.

This hits hard! Lots of value in this video. Keep it up

Preach man. I'm a junior dev and have already had to deal with this. I stood up for myself and I was given work that just didn't involve coding and finally got laid off because of COVID but I did everything you said. I'm not the smartest programmer but I know bad code when I see it, I pointed it out and was told we don't have the budget to fix it. We also had well over 140 apis that had no documentation and wondered why onboarding was so difficult.

@JohnKerbaugh

Жыл бұрын

No budget for saving budget 🤪

As a newer developer, I've been in the industry for almost 4 years now, you put a light on something I couldn't put my finger on before. The nihilist negative attitude of many developers puts a damper on the energy in the office, at least for me. If they switched from "everything is terrible", to "everything will be fiiine", it would make such a huge difference. Life consists of what we can perceive, and if you perceive everything as terrible, the energy you put forth into world will reflect that.

@HealthyDev

4 жыл бұрын

You’re going to do well my friend 😊

@ThatGuyDownInThe

4 жыл бұрын

This was a big reason I was hesitant to get into programming. I'm an extroverted incredibly happy guy, and when you look at the tropes around "software developers" they're all atheist, nihilistic and depressed. Probably why I have an easier time talking to the bosses than the programmers.

@spaghettienforcer4896

4 жыл бұрын

​@@ThatGuyDownInThe It is what it is, you get an introvert to sit at a desk and be in their head all day, it becomes difficult to get out of your head when it's time to socialize. The bosses are talking to people all day so they don't get into that rhythm. Not to get into an argument here, but veeery few programmers I've met are atheists. From my experience, about half are religious and the other half is most agnostic or 'spiritual'. Apologies if I am assuming wrong, but it comes off as you are religious, and many times religious people confuse not conforming to a structured religion as atheism, when that is not the case. Besides, when you list atheism beside nihilism and depression, you are making it out to be a negative thing, which is insulting to those who hold those beliefs (I do not consider myself an atheist, just fyi).

@ThatGuyDownInThe

4 жыл бұрын

@@spaghettienforcer4896 No, I have no religion, I'm just spiritual. Since the job has to do with logic heavily I feel like some developers go overboard and start to see the universe as a soulless machine. But that's definitely a good thing to hear, and Idk, I used to be an atheist, I'd prefer not to be around them, it's a pretty morbid belief and I know I was a wreck when I held the belief. Just seems that a majority of atheists are nihilistic so my bad for making the comparison

@RoninX33

4 жыл бұрын

@@ThatGuyDownInThe Wow, we atheist are not nihilists because we don't see a supernatural hand in the universe. You can be positive, enjoy the life you have, and not need that sort of stuff to survive. And unless you know the majority of atheist on the planet then blanket statements are not the was to go. That gets people in trouble. Now we devs can isolate ourselves and turn inward into our work. Something that most other people do not understand. It could be soul crushing after a while. I must admit I do see the universe as a soulless machine but that does not take the wonder and mystery out of the universe.

Wow man, this was an eye opener. Thank you for making this. I've got some thinking to do.

I've put this into my "watch later" about half a year ago. I'm really glad, I've come back to it and actually watched this. This is a great video for self-reflection and really helped me. I've already had most of the options in mind in some form but now I feel more confident in them. :) Thanks!

This... so much! 17 years of this and it was affecting my health. Needed to take a break!

This showed up on my recommended and I don't think it could be MORE relevant to my current experience. I'm pretty early in my career and both of my first two jobs embodied some or all of the issues you mentioned. I followed the same path of smoking weed all the time and trying to escape from it. I'm in between jobs right now due to being laid off for COVID and I really hope the next job I get will help me be a more healthy software engineer. If not, I'll be implementing all your suggestions to stand up for myself. Thanks so much for the advice!

@HealthyDev

4 жыл бұрын

You’re very welcome. Awesome that you’re early in your career and already open to some of these things. I wish I was! 🤦🏻‍♂️

Needed this. Thank you!

Was the top of my class throughout university, then went into the industry and became the dumbest programmer in the building. Thankfully I was able to recognize this. I find that appreciating the hard work of 99% of everyone in the office rather than getting mad at 1% of the stuff that is mismanaged (which is mostly due to lack of understanding, not malice) is the key to longevity :)

Have you struggled with frustration because of any of these issues with software development? ►► Know your options! Access my FREE data hub for the top 25 software industry roles, TechRolepedia → jaymeedwards.com/access-techrolepedia/ Skip to points: 0:00 Introduction 01:07 How Programmers Lose Hope 03:00 -- Forced To Cut Corners 04:33 -- Cognitive Overload 05:17 -- Low Perception Of Value 06:49 -- High Income Forces Seeking Deeper Goals 08:31 -- Learned Helplessness 10:38 How To Get Your Hope Back 10:42 -- Say No With Grace 12:45 -- Communicate Uncertainty 15:28 -- Ask For Help Earlier 16:48 -- Develop Empathy 18:24 -- Surround Yourself With Positive Devs

@divinealien7620

4 жыл бұрын

I mean one of the things I hate is: because people think they can get good amount of money from programming and there so many media and movies promoting this programming, hacking, tech stuff... so all kind of people come to this area. that's include stoopids, arrogants, very toxic, etc... people. I rather change my career and code as hobby than working with stoopid bitches. BUT the good thing is there are also good and nice people in this world and that's a hope. definitely your last solution helps a lot to make a happier life. (surround yourself with positive devs)

@HealthyDev

4 жыл бұрын

I feel your struggle. Accepting that I have to work with difficult people is really hard for me. But the more I try to just let go of it, the more I can just put energy into the healthier relationships and let people who don’t want to collaborate just be in their little box until circumstances force them to change.

@HealthyDev

4 жыл бұрын

@S Han yep. As I said in the video, if people just can't be reasonable there's always the door!

@Chiramisudo

3 жыл бұрын

This should be pinned or in the video description. 😉

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

@@Chiramisudo I thought it was? Weird - I've pinned it. Thanks for noticing lol!

As an engineer who is trying out management this year, your videos are super helpful in helping to navigate some of the harder conversations with my teammates. So glad I found your channel.

I've been in the business for close to 20 years now, and I can really relate with what you say. I've lost hope big-time. It feels like estimates are useless, there is always chaos and drama... I lost so much hope that I quit my last job a month and a half ago, and I'm taking some time off to work on my own project. Your video does give me hope though, thank you. It would be a shame to not got back into the coding game, since that's all I know... a career change at 38 is pretty hard!

@JJSeattle

Жыл бұрын

No. Career change is very easy at 38, harder at 58, impossible at 78.

@Limmweb

Жыл бұрын

what's your current project?

@mikey_r

Жыл бұрын

Time off is great for clearing the mind, but I hope you stick with it mate, you just need the right gig that will let you play to your strengths 🦾

@willemojnr

Жыл бұрын

@@mikey_r I'm starting to see that :) The time off was useful. Then I got back into the game, now at a company that has the best culture I've ever encountered. It gives me hope!

@willemojnr

Жыл бұрын

@@Limmweb I'm currently working at a startup, focusing on Elixir, which is totally new to me. The culture is great :)

After 30 years in software, I finally walked away from it because it was causing me mental health issues. It took me 4 or 5 years to get over it. These days, I still program occasionally but I am no longer active in the programming world. Perhaps I missed it in the video, but another issue is the constantly moving goal-posts. As soon as you get something well understood or working well, the language changes or the standards or frameworks change and you have to rewrite a perfectly good system just to keep it going. People rarely seem to understand that some software lasts for years, maybe decades. I see adverts sometimes looking for COBOL or RPG II programmers because a system from the 70s or 80s needs changing...

@ArmandoAlejandro2014

3 жыл бұрын

Same here. 30 years. 25 as a professional software developer

@demetreusdm

3 жыл бұрын

if it's not secret, what're you switched into?

@SailingYachtSaltyLass

3 жыл бұрын

@@demetreusdm - These days I skipper sailboats

@phutureproof

3 жыл бұрын

Im almost in the same boat, been in the industry for 25 years, now I'm unemployed and suffering depression and burnout, im honestly kinda scared about my future I dont know what Im gonna do, only recently came off some incredibly horrible anti depressants, so I am starting to feel better and stronger but I am shitting myself about my future career, hope youre still doing good! it gives me hope.

@SailingYachtSaltyLass

3 жыл бұрын

@@phutureproof - yes still going. Money is short but I am slowly coming back to programming but on my own terms and my own way. Considering I used to do 15 hour days, I now maybe do 15 hours a week. My life is totally different and there are days, usually when I am on deck in howling wind and cold sea spray, that I think "Why didn't I stick with programming - nice, warm, indoor work with no heavy lifting"? There are always other options, even inside IT and if you do change direction or jobs, you may be poorer but nothing pays like being able to sleep at night or not being terrified if the phone rings. Whatever you do, I wish you all the best and good fortune.

This is what a software developer is facing in his career. Its true. All these thoughts are there in my mind but you have presented through your video . You are aswsome. Many developer need your thoughts for better life in software development.

@HealthyDev

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you Vamsi 🙏

I would say as a cs undergrad there are many things that I can relate to in this video. It's terrifying that sometimes we wouldn't even notice that we have become more toxic and are comparing ourselves with other people. Really appreciate how you've shared these feelings with us and provided these great suggestions on how to fix this. The purpose of life is really like a non-stoping question and hope we all will find an answer to it eventually...

Really appreciate your transparency!!

I have been developing software for nearly 5 years professionally and am currently going through these same issues, every day is more difficult than the previous one and I don't want to lash out because of that. I am definitely going to try to adjust my behavior and approach to management/development based on your advice. I cannot stress this enough... Jayme you deserve huge things. Your channel has helped me understand and improve the quality of my work, despite the above issues. I will share from now on every single video with my colleagues in the hope we can help you as much as you have helped me. Great video!

@HealthyDev

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the kind words, I’m really thankful to hear my videos are helping you! Thanks for spreading the word. Don’t hesitate to offer feedback or ask any questions. Welcome to the channel. 👍

I have been in this industry since 2007. Th last year I just reached the highest level of frustration. I just lost hope and left my job. I did not want to come back again to the exact environment that you are describing in your video. Additionally to that, I constantly faced with gender bias, never being treated seriously by my colleagues who actually started this path much later than me. For this sabbatic year people kept asking me Are you not into programming anymore? I always replied and still reply 'I like programming, I simply do not like other programmers'. I came back to work earlier this month and now I am trying to look at it with a fresh, unbiased mindset. I will definitely remember all your suggestions. Thank you for such a good video.

@HealthyDev

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your honest experience that people need to hear about working in our industry. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts are on this - I feel like the fact that the success of a project depends on people collaborating, but that we’re independently measured, brings out the worst in us. I hope your colleagues treat you fairly and you can find a way to detach from those who don’t. This job is hard enough without having to face sexism, racism, and stereotypes about management vs engineering. Adding that on top, it’s incredible that anyone is able to stay positive. I hope your break restored some of your strength so you can find the resilience to get through it all!

@k-yo

3 жыл бұрын

How's the sabbatical worked out for you? I'm on somewhat of a similar situation, going almost 6 months without a job in the field not trying to worry much about the job gap or improving my skills, specifically because I'm too am fed up with the industry and corporate/startup culture, definitely taking a break... How was that experience overall? Have you had to explain your job gap for recruiters and how'd you felt about that?

@yuliavasylenko8603

3 жыл бұрын

@@k-yo hi! Overall, I need to admit, the fact that I didn't update myself with new trends in the industry and became a bit rusty played against me in terms of getting the position in some top 5 companies. However, I don't regret that. I found a company where my team lead told me on first working day "your programming skills are not that good, I hired you because you have strong problem solving skills, that what matters here". Regarding a gap in a resume: people asked, and I told them I wanted to dedicate time to my own projects. If people don't get it, it's even better for you, because you want to find a place with modern and flexible mindset, and if they don't have it you will benefit from their rejection. My advice: have a great rest and don't even think about work first, recharge your batteries. Once you feel like coming back, just spend some time to update yourself on the domain and come back with a new fresh understanding of what you want in your career. Good luck and I hope you will change your life for better!

@pperez1224

3 жыл бұрын

Gender bias? From 99% of open source contributors that are men however nobody prevents a women from buying a computer and commit code. I tell you what , i dont like working with women because they are looking for excuse and compassion instead of improving their skills. When i am not good , i either quit , or fight , buy books and acumulate experience to get a better coder. Its a war , mam. You look for emotions and empathy will coding is about cold facts and keeping emotions away to have the most neutral vision of concepts. This is why you are statistically not at good for programming. As the opposite of this , there would be 'gender bias' against me as a social assistant because that what was genetics and life is all about. Genders are complementary , not equals. No matter wether ideologs like it or not , genetics and natural selections rules the world.

@TheRealWindlePoons

3 жыл бұрын

@@HealthyDev A bias you seldom see mentioned in the software industry is ageism. I once worked for a software company owned, run and staffed by people the same age as my son. They treated contractors my age just the same as they treated me. After the first year it starts to wear you down. I have never regretted leaving the place.

Man... you deserve way more subscriptions, this is GOLD

I accidentally clicked on this video while scrolling KZread home page on my evening video escape session. This was the best video I've seen in months. You said so many right things I've always think of, but never got to understand. Thank you man I got shivers and had to laugh just because such an ocean of truth. Thank you, you made my struggle a bit easier. Or at least I understand why I struggle. 10years of develop experience and also sometines think of moving to farming as others mention in coment section. :) BTW comment section is also gold.

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

Welcome to the channel! 👍

Thank you for the great video. And for anyone who arrives here: the comments are a goldmine of info about how developers feel and how their career progresses. You'll find things you deeply agree with and things you didn't even know you felt before you read them. It seems this video really struck a chord with many programmers.

Oh I needed this so bad. I can't thank you enough for opening my eyes. As developers we cover a variety of personalities and I'm one of the worker bee types that just put my head down and try to do what I can, biting my lip *every single time* an estimate is asked, knowing it will likely not be met anyway(because you know, other tasks getting wedged in all the time). It's not healthy suffering in silence.

Really really really enjoyed this. Hitting a point in my career I needed to listen to this. Thank you.

Thank you so much for making this video. I will be enrolled in a software dev program soon and I appreciate the knowledge I have gained in this. I think it reaffirms my decision to stay.

A big part of the problem is that we spend so much of our time interacting with a thing that is stupid, stubborn, and utterly unempathetic, that it is hard not to bring to our interactions with _people_ the habits of mind and attitude that make that interaction tolerable and effective.

@HealthyDev

4 жыл бұрын

Absolutely - we start treating people like code!!

@mynameis6575

3 жыл бұрын

thats brilliant

@mathmo

3 жыл бұрын

I’d like to upvote this 1000x

dude love this channel, im a cs student. senior devs out there, we read your blogs, watch your vids, we're listening.

Absolutely spot on. Great video

Great video, so true! This old adage comes to mind 'if you don't like something, change it and if you can't change it then change your attitude'.

I rarely make a comment on youtube but I felt I have to say something. I've been a developer for over 20 years and watching this video was like looking in a mirror. I've had experience of every point you've mentioned. My own frustrations of impossible deadlines, blaming bad managers, negativity, depression and more. I'm posting this to every coworker, past and present, who've been in this situation. And, let's face it, what developer hasn't? Not pushing back because of the fear of being fired, working long hours with no overtime pay, drinking too much, complaining to anyone apart from the people you should be complaining to, criticizing other developers because of my own insecurities. I would like to add to your excellent points though, which is that the biggest obstacles to a project's success are not technical, they're political. What you said about a job not being worth doing if they ask you to do something that we know is wrong, is spot on! That's happened to me so many times. Mostly I went along with it and tried to figure it out, which didn't happen so you get a bad reputation from then on. One time I did say what was the right thing to say and was let go a sometime later. But it turned out that I was right and the company folded within a year. We have to stick to our guns if we know we're right. Not in a way that you come across as obnoxious but methodically as the experinced developers that we are, even if it makes you unpopular. I'd rather lose a job than be depressed and axious to the point where it ruins your life.

@HealthyDev

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you, thank you (for reiterating how important this is). Until we stop letting people who don’t understand the work drive projects into the ground, the “cog in a wheel” developer stereotype will continue to be the norm.

@udlman

4 жыл бұрын

@@HealthyDev Thanks for posting. I noticed you're a musician, I am too. I see the link of development and music being under the umbrella of creativity and how frustrating it is when creation is stifled. My own personal conclusion is that we all should work for ourselves. Form our own companies and do what we love. Working for someone else isn't necessarily a waste of time but it is a waste of effort. If I'm going to be working 80 hours a week then I should be getting the lion's share. Entrepreneurs work those hours and, if they're successful, make the money. I'm sick of working 80 hours and only getting paid for 37 on a project that's doomed to failure. I agree that one option is to push back and set boundaries but that can be a career ending move. I'd say any developer who watched your video who relates to what you say, should think about starting a business. It's risky but what viable option is there?

@HealthyDev

4 жыл бұрын

@@udlman starting a business can be great if one's willing to do the work to understand everything outside of building a product that's necessary for sure (and you can find a viable market). Like I tried to say in the video, you can push back and set boundaries without being a jerk about it. It's all about how it's phrased and what kind of relationship you've built with the person. I have other videos about building trust with people that can be helpful with that part, it's one thing to say it and another to deliberately practice it so you can do it effectively. This video is a summary of several other videos at a high level. One other thing I want to say though is 80 hours of work getting paid for 37 is ridiculous, and I'm really sorry you're in that situation. I would definitely do whatever you can to interview somewhere else. There's absolutely no way to have any life outside work, or move forward in anything else in your life with that kind of workload!

@udlman

3 жыл бұрын

@@HealthyDev Yes I understand what you say about pushing back in a constructive way. I tried to say that in my last paragraph. I don't want to make light of how difficult starting a business is. I hope I didn't come across as making it sound easy. Statistically, even surviving the first year is very difficult. I know because I've tried. But I learned from my mistakes and will try again. You need a great idea above all. You need the best team you can get and the funds to last until you start making a profit. For that you need an excellent business model and many more things besides. Plus, you need to be working seven days a week for many hours a day. It's extremely hard to start and run a successful company. I get it. My point is it's better than being abused, and I use that word deliberately, by some employers who don't know or care how a project is supposed to be managed. If you burn out trying then they'll simply get someone else. Getting another job isn't the answer. In my experience, you just get similar situations with different scenary. While recognizing how hard it is to start a company, I feel there's no credible alternative.

@HealthyDev

3 жыл бұрын

@@udlman sounds like you have a pretty well-thought and reasonable approach. I hope you're wildly successful! 👍

What a great video. As someone that’s hitting my mid 40s as a software developer/tech lead this really spoke to me and the kind of environment I’ve had to deal with. I always try to be a positive influence but I have definitely found myself getting bogged down in negativity. Thanks a lot

I've been a software dev for over 20 years and this is so right-on! Yes yes yes! Thank you for this exposé

I appreciate your videos so much! It's nice to know that we're not alone in our aspects surrounding these particular aspects of our jobs.

In our country Bangladesh, there is this abundance of Computer Engineer, people of all sorts of background take some crash course and get into the job field. As this opportunity too good to be true for them they said yes to wages of really low rate, thus hampering the whole it sector. People who are undergrads are getting depressed and hopeless for it. Also there is this assumption is that CSE is all copy pasting thus the market leaders dont want to pay more and thus the softwares are bad and it is hurting the images of CSE Grads

@HealthyDev

5 жыл бұрын

I’m sorry to hear this. 😞 They call this a “race to the bottom” when engineers are “sold” by price alone in a market. What has helped me in my career is going beyond what others are doing in some way. You or I probably can’t change this cultural problem ourselves. But if we’re working at a company, we can kindly educate people about the value of engineering beyond just being “code monkeys”. And as individuals we can create personal projects to show in interviews, and learn to communicate better to demonstrate our being worth more. I’m sorry you’re having to cope with this currently broken system. My hope for Bangladesh is that their leadership eventually learn to see the money being lost on focusing on price alone and treating engineers as a commodity. It sometimes takes several regime changes at companies here in America for those mistakes to be overcome.

@matthewbarnes7650

4 жыл бұрын

Dude. They can't fucking do that to you. I just read an acm article section about India's booming tech sector. That article filled me with so much hope for dark skinned people. What the hell are they doing to you guys over there?!

This is one of the best videos about software development I've ever seen. After 14 years on this market, I'm feeling just like you described. Thanks for the words and tips.

Thank you for formulating these thoughts. They really hit home. I've been on a sabbatical now for 1.5 years (volitionally), precisely for these reasons. Stopped buying sh!t, and seeking joy in literally everything else live offers. I'll sit on these ideas you've presented, and try to take them onboard once I start working again.

Truly, thanks for this video. I feel relieved that I'm not the only one losing hope after 15 years as developer. But in the last 2 years, as you said I'm trying to surround myself with positivity, and fighting politely against one liner specs or defect issue. I love my job but really annoyed with these one liner.

Sir, what u r doing is amazing.... I think u r a bit ahead in time interms of youtube content, but there are many of us who need your guidance. Thank you much

@HealthyDev

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you Ravi, glad to help! When you say you feel like I’m a bit ahead in terms of content - could you explain a little more of what you mean by that? Thank you.

Wow, this articulates so many thoughts I have been having. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and be vulnerable. We need more content like yours on KZread... and less of this “day in the life of” / “make 100k as a new dev” content that really doesn’t reflect reality for many of us in the field. Thank you, so much. I needed this.

@HealthyDev

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the support! Awesome to hear this helped you. 👍

I'm glad I found your channel. You're very good at articulating what most programmers feel as a general malaise when they go to work.

I’m still studying and learning programming (learning frontend) and this sounds very valuable for a lot of different career paths. A lot of it has to do with perspective, knowing your values, and standing by then to ensure that you have a healthy work life. Thank you so much for this!

This is your first KZread video I'll be watching and all I can say is this is amazing. And a lot of developers out there need this. I can relate to losing hope as a Software Developer and I am currently dealing with that. Already on a break from everything and I hope I get better. Once again thank you for sharing.