Sorry there wasn't any real back-and-forth, we had to rerecord the audio so Thinky had pretty much worked out everything he wanted to say. If you guys like this interview-style video, let me know. It was definitely a nice change of pace to make.

@risingSisyphus

2 жыл бұрын

This interview format is super interesting!! Don't feel like it's not fun if it's not organic conversation. One of my favorites of your videos are the GHPC dev interviews

@bartekkrasinski7720

2 жыл бұрын

Plz more like this, amazing amount of info. I guess ask questions like in a proper interview but you already touched on it so you know

@yarnickgoovaerts

2 жыл бұрын

Keep making this kind of videos. Its really informative and not to long or drawn out for me to get distracted or klik of in the middle as with most other interviews

@NotOPFOR

2 жыл бұрын

Ivan's cope cages don't work.

@FatherGrigori

2 жыл бұрын

It is a nice change of pace

From what I've heard the 'cope cage' was designed to protect against PG-7s, thrown anti-tank mines and things like suicide drones, which are a genuine threat and have apparently been encountered in Syria.

@naamadossantossilva4736

2 жыл бұрын

And more importantly,on Armenia.

@Mikalent

2 жыл бұрын

The Russians are also encountering last gen NATO LAWs, that even modern day NATO is producing and distributing LAWs in Ukraine.

@rustyshackleford3053

2 жыл бұрын

Are you sure you don't mean NLAWs, which are an exceptionally different beast

@hideoeduardokojima8340

2 жыл бұрын

@@rustyshackleford3053 Denmark and Norway gave Ukraine M72 LAWs.

@verdebusterAP

2 жыл бұрын

They aint coping in Ukraine , thats for damn sure

Top-cage like this reminds me of the chicken coop cage that was used in WW1 to protect the tank from a grenade thrown by infantry which will make it roll out of the tank.

@marcbhoy2811

2 жыл бұрын

You mean 2 right

@ireallycouldntcareanymore7702

2 жыл бұрын

@@marcbhoy2811 it was created in WW1

@5RndsFFE

2 жыл бұрын

@@marcbhoy2811 During WW1, The British MK IV onwards often featured an iron frame covered in wire mesh.This was to keep German bundled Stielhandgranate off the thin roof plate, as that one was of the few widely effective anti tank weapons they had at the time, before the widespread issue of the Tankgewehr.

@badgermcbadger1968

2 жыл бұрын

Nah it was made to protects that one support on top of you with a wrench

@jorgedalasanha2769

2 жыл бұрын

@@badgermcbadger1968 *Battlefield 1 PTSDs*

6:17 damn, nice lead shot!

@kvac9550

2 жыл бұрын

its drewski

@Vxylon

2 жыл бұрын

Drewski watching a warthunder / spookston video? A surprise, but a welcome one. Hiya mate.

@Acid_Burn9

2 жыл бұрын

When A-10 gameplay? :peepoWeird:

@diss2473

2 жыл бұрын

@@Rahayu.76 holy crap its oc boi

@Death_Trooper-177

2 жыл бұрын

Do you play war thunder Drewski?

Talked with the crew about this "fences" as we called them during expo. They agreed that this things are pornography (as in ridiculous) and it was just "brilliant" idea from the top

@MrMediator24

2 жыл бұрын

And obviously this thoughts are confirmed with each FUBAR vehicle

@user-vb2uq1fy9x

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrMediator24, the term used really gives credibility to your statement. "Pornography" is a very recognizable way to call something badly conceptualized and crudely made in Russian.

@pavelmartynenka8473

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-vb2uq1fy9x yeah thats true lol, that's what i thougt too

@ThraceVega

2 жыл бұрын

The Good Idea Fairy strikes again.

@Invizive

2 жыл бұрын

@@varhYT waiting for _seethe cages_ to be deployed

The "cope cage" doesn't work because stalinium is hard to come by on the field

@garrettobrien5197

2 жыл бұрын

Lmao. This made me laugh

@SoaCrow

2 жыл бұрын

The damage that r/NonCredibleDefense has caused is too muc, we need to be stopped sooner or later...

@solid_fire9388

2 жыл бұрын

Facts !

@stalinium4769

2 жыл бұрын

Da

@MutheiM_Marz

2 жыл бұрын

Stalinium is dissolved it self together with the soviet union.

As far as I know, those cages were meant to stop light suicide drones like Warmate used by Ukraine. The older versions of warmate have relatively small HE warheads capable of destroying MBTs if hitting them directly in the roof. But iI think that the explosive load on the newest versions is too big to be stopped by these cages anyway. I don't know if Ukraine bought any newer Warmates though.

@binaryshark5965

2 жыл бұрын

Doesn't really matter, just buy a bunch of cheap drones strap as much explosives as possible, then rig a detonator and you've got your self a guided bomb.

@kamilszadkowski8864

2 жыл бұрын

@@binaryshark5965 Chep drones can be easily nullified with radio-electronic warfare.

@binaryshark5965

2 жыл бұрын

@@kamilszadkowski8864 but that's just one more piece lol of equipment that needs to be taken into the battlefeild especially in an urban environment cause that's where those drones will do their best work, that will then be vunerable to guerilla warfare.

@land_and_air1250

2 жыл бұрын

@@kamilszadkowski8864 I’m sure the army using unencrypted radio coms definitely has state of the art electronic warfare units

@kamilszadkowski8864

2 жыл бұрын

@@land_and_air1250 Well, they were supposed to be formidable in that aspect. But as usual with Russians, it turned out to be propaganda.

Lot of people seem to think that the copium cages (trademark) don't do anything, this is wrong though. It has been demostrated that these cages effectively protect against very heavily thrown tomatoes and sheets of paper.

@cristianserban4632

2 жыл бұрын

I was about to comment for you to give me a source but then i expanded the comment and read the rest

@bigwezz

2 жыл бұрын

Paper cuts are no joke and clearly has a high penetration value plus it has a +10 sting and ouch value! Clearly its an anti crew/personnel weapon system and its highly effective.

@cestfixement

2 жыл бұрын

they are also 93% effective at blocking rain particles that may interfere with the hair of the commander when the hatch is open

@Eyerleth

2 жыл бұрын

Given that we know Ukrainian grandmothers can expertly wield jars of pickled tomatoes to take out combat drones, that's a valid concern. Anti-tank pickled vegetables are no joke.

@doublebiggs8498

2 жыл бұрын

@@cristianserban4632 you should ask for the sorces that says it was ever intended to stop javelins. They are ther for RKG-3 AT grenades if you want me to even strengthen this argument these are shape charge devices when ya put that much distance between it and the armor they are usless other than a minor headache for the crew

Spookston saying he's not a furry because of his profile pic: okay. Spookston's discord image

@Ayattar55

2 жыл бұрын

There's 9/10 chance that in full image his avatar is looking at a knotty treat ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

@Drakey_Fenix

2 жыл бұрын

Just lookng at that profile pic alone is enough to tell that he is a gay furry that do some kinky stuff outside of KZread. Trust me, as a fellow fur, I know a gay one when I see em. Although he tries to keep the furry stuff out of KZread.

@greatoverlordchikonmaster7226

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ayattar55 Stop talking. Be quiet for several days

@chanchito4401

2 жыл бұрын

Spookums definitely seems to be a furry but not a Furry if you know what I mean, he just likes the anthro art and stuff which is fine (to clarify I don't care about the more "hardcore" furries either tbh)

@jammygamer8961

2 жыл бұрын

tbh i don't care if he is a furry or not anyway

The infamous cope cage

@yourfriendlyneighborhoodf1802

2 жыл бұрын

Oh God NCD is leaking

@batteryboi8201

2 жыл бұрын

Or the slat hat

@grievetan

2 жыл бұрын

Russians fears Javelins for a reason lol

@Echelon030

2 жыл бұрын

@@yourfriendlyneighborhoodf1802 It was /k/ but they called it the cuck cage.

@maplegumm

2 жыл бұрын

@@yourfriendlyneighborhoodf1802 ah a fellow non credible defence user? Maybe a laser pig fan as well?

It's probably there to help with crew morale given how notoriously bad urban warfare is for tankers. Think of them like the sandbags Sherman crews would put on the from of their tanks.

@raketny_hvost

2 жыл бұрын

Seems legit. Cages were also used on later IS and T-34s before taking Berlin. They were purely working against Faust

@SomewhatSummarized

2 жыл бұрын

The sandbags on the Sherman’s existed purely for entertainment purposes. If morale was at an all time low, they would cut the bags lose and create a sandbox for the crew to play in. I hope this clears any confusion.

@jacksonlarson6099

2 жыл бұрын

@@SomewhatSummarized Once again the superiority of the Sherman is proven beyond a doubt.

@brainblessed5814

2 жыл бұрын

So, a cope cage

@D3R3bel

2 жыл бұрын

There was a cope cage with sandbags stacked on it, so yeah.

The purpose of the Cope Cages being for protection against TB-2 munitions makes the most sense as there was a lot of video of Armenian operated Soviet/Russian MTBs being devestated by them during the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh War.

@raketny_hvost

2 жыл бұрын

But actually in Ukraine they don't work that effectively in fact of presence of large AA forces

@cyka7705

2 жыл бұрын

@@raketny_hvost some actually manage to harsh some Russian convoy. Even inactive AA. So that thing still pretty much a threat

@danielodonnell7060

2 жыл бұрын

Loitering munitions too

@verdebusterAP

2 жыл бұрын

It aint coping in Ukraine

@engineer1941

2 жыл бұрын

Today T72 with cope cage was destroyed by TB2

It reminds me of wood armor that was used during the world wars.Almost completely useless but give the crew a sense of comfort since they got additional "protection"

@davidty2006

2 жыл бұрын

Russian tanks still carry logs with them.

@piscessoedroen

2 жыл бұрын

@@davidty2006 for different purpose. The trucks however have been seen mounting logs in front of the radiator, probably to help shield it from rifle fire

@TheArcticFoxxo

2 жыл бұрын

though this gives the tanks shitloads of protection, if it didnt then there wouldnt be 3 other forefront countries using chicken slats

@PilotTed

2 жыл бұрын

Usually logs weren't used as armor, but as a detachable tool to help crossing mud or getting un stuck out of mud.

@TheArcticFoxxo

2 жыл бұрын

@@PilotTed i think he meant for american tanks such as the shermans, where they'd put almost anything on it, or the italian tanks in the early sections of the war.

I told people from the beginning that these cages wouldn't stop javelin missiles due to the tandem warhead. But it would stop top down attacks from RPGs or anti-tank grenades. I'm glad you're bringing this up.

@badgermcbadger1968

2 жыл бұрын

Could this help against a javelin the tank also has era on top?

@floppy2651

2 жыл бұрын

@@badgermcbadger1968 not likely and it would also make the tank taller and heavier because I doubt that the current cope cage could hold any ERA worth it’s salt not to mention anything short of Relikt era doesn’t stand a chance at stopping a javelin

@badgermcbadger1968

2 жыл бұрын

@@floppy2651 i meant era below the cage

@floppy2651

2 жыл бұрын

@@badgermcbadger1968 90% sure you can’t mount most modern era on the top of tanks

@badgermcbadger1968

2 жыл бұрын

@@floppy2651 ah

clearly, the cages are meant for grilling meat when the ammunition cooks off

@xsixinfantryx

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah like the crew men 😆

I think the argument of the cope cage being used as camo is rather a stretch. The soviet/russian tanks' low profile was supposed to make them less likely to being seen and being hit. By putting a big "conning tower" on top of your tank, you are essentially tell everyone "hey look here, look at this nice tall structure I have here". Even if you put more debris or branches on it, it still give off a unnatural look and add weight onto the tank.

@PilotTed

2 жыл бұрын

Its meant as camo from the air, not the ground. Camo from the air is just as, if not more important due to aircraft and drones. The Ukrainians have been using a lot of drones too, so the camo on the top will help hide them from said drones, if even by a little.

@ryanchatham9971

2 жыл бұрын

@@PilotTed that would've been true before the age of thermal imaging, but as we've seen from the BA-2 footage the Ukrainians are more than capable of spotting and engaging targets with thermal imaging.

@ryanchatham9971

2 жыл бұрын

@@PilotTed that would've been true before the age of thermal imaging, but as we've seen from the TB-2 footage the Ukrainians are more than capable of spotting and engaging targets with thermal imaging.

@aflyingcowboy31

2 жыл бұрын

​@@ryanchatham9971 Well I haven't seen too much TB-2 footage of them destroying tanks in Ukraine (most footage I have seen has been light armoured vehicles i.e. BMDs), to his point, thermal imaging does see heat signatures, but like the guy said in the video, putting all this stuff on top of these cages may in fact make it more difficult to distinguish what it is you are looking at from above seeing as they wont have a heat signature like the tanks engine.

@TheorientalAsianman

2 жыл бұрын

@@aflyingcowboy31 I don't think you have ever seen a thermo imaging of a tank from the sky. Often on the thermo camera, the simple engine deck heat signature is enough for confirmation. So I don't really think cope cage can help with that.

Officially recognized as “cope cages”

@TamamoF0X

2 жыл бұрын

The best thing about this is that there's a mini-war going on in the T90's Wikipedia page that if the roof-mounted slat armour should be recognised as "cope cages", in the end, it has.

@Spookston

2 жыл бұрын

Thirty years from now "cope cages" will start showing up in history textbooks

@4rsh193

2 жыл бұрын

@@Spookston and also the fact that Russian rubles are less than a game for children's in game currency named robux

@4rsh193

2 жыл бұрын

@@TamamoF0X it is an actual warzone in the T90 wiki page

@doublebiggs8498

2 жыл бұрын

@@Spookston even tho the whole logic behind it is based off of lies. These cages are there for mostly things like RKG-3s they are shape charge at grenades that many nations have in stock and the USSR sold like candy. If you know how a shape charge works it makes the cages have a very logical and effective purpose but of course western media pulling things out there ass for reasons is just considered fact now and if ypu argue you support putin or some BS

The cope cages being used as storage sounds to me less like an intended feature and more like tankers going 'oh well, now we have these weird racks of questionable utility on the top of our tank, might as well lash some gear to it'

@diestormlie

2 жыл бұрын

As I understand it, Soldiers generally are excellent scroungers. Tankers etc. Who rely on complicated pieces of kit, even more so. So it was downright inevitable that their Cope Cages would be turned into stowage.

@A-G-F-

2 жыл бұрын

Thats how soldiers think. "Well, this wasnt made for this, but if it works, it works"

@lordraydens

2 жыл бұрын

@@A-G-F- if it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid

I see the top cage as a direct response to how prevalent drone top down attacks were in the Armenian/Azerbaijani conflict and just how devastating they were.

@egonieser

2 жыл бұрын

That wasn't some great unknown. Tank tops have and are weakspots on all tanks, be it T-72/T-90/Abrams or Panther D lol. They just don't really get exposed to such situations often enough in the past to justify doing anything about it.

@roberthaworth8991

2 жыл бұрын

But they also raise the tank's visual profile quite a bit, making positioning such a tank in defilade (with just its low turret visible to any observer in its forward arc and at about the same elevation) impossible. With cages fitted these things can be spotted a few EXTRA km away, except maybe if they're in a treeline. The US Army would never make a tradeoff like this -- of visual signature for some dubious overhead "protection".

Cope Cages: being used to stop top attacks from RPGs in urban centres NLAWs: *Allow us to introduce ourselves*

@justarandomtechpriest1578

2 жыл бұрын

Nlaws have a top attack mode bit its more the tandem warheads

@Keklord_

2 жыл бұрын

@@justarandomtechpriest1578 I thought they were direct inertia guided ATGMs

@Keklord_

2 жыл бұрын

Just checked, they can do both.

@gaiofattos2

2 жыл бұрын

Imagine if Israel have send spike missiles to Ukraine ...

>Cope Cages. And there goes my drink.

I saw this and thought they were going to talk about Soviet T-34’s with bed cages on them during the later war period of WW2

@aoki6332

2 жыл бұрын

these where semi useful since Russian Tank where crap and there the early ancestor of the modern cope cage

@DewaKrishna_

2 жыл бұрын

To be those were actually useful, especially against panzerfausts with non-tandem HEAT charges

Speaking of silhouette, one of the advantages of a Russian tank is their low silhouette. The cages dramatically increase the profile of the vehicle, making them more visible on the battle, not less so. It will be interesting to see stats for Russian tanks (if we can ever get honest ones out of Moscow) after the conflict is over to see if they helped reduce tank losses or actually resulted in more Russian tank kills.

@Th0nky

2 жыл бұрын

In this case there are T-72s with these cages which have large camouflaged nettings draped over them which definitely does help in "breaking up" the silhouette of the vehicle. It may be a higher profile overall, but remember we're in mostly flat terrain where this may prove less of an important factor, and creating a "non-tank" profile or a profile that cannot effectively be observed from aerial observation vehicles might be more important. Also worth noting is this is clearly an effort to reduce how much these cages stand out anyways.

@Genktarov

2 жыл бұрын

The low profile primarily helps in reducing horizontal target profile. What’s changed in the past 10 years I think is that modern drones and other tech has greatly increased the importance of vertical spotting rather than horizontal spotting. For this reason, trading some horizontal visibility for some of the benefits listed in the video might be considered worth it. Also of course there’s no hiding a tank in urban combat. Even if someone does see you, so long as the front of the cage is covered with cloth or some other visually-obscuring material, a shot aimed at apparent center of mass will miss the turret itself.

@DerMetalmatiker

2 жыл бұрын

Honest and moscow in one sentence... Wasnt in my Bingo card.

@Chroniclerope

2 жыл бұрын

@@Genktarov aerial vehicles have thermals these days, so physical canoflauge doesn’t mean much. If there is a drone in the sky and your tank is warm, you’re getting spotted

@Genktarov

2 жыл бұрын

Point still stands that they clearly saw maintaining a completely low silhouette was less important than whatever multifunctional use they perceive the cage to have. It’s pure speculation but it seems that given the air gap if you put thermal camouflage on the top of the cage you could significantly obscure the turret to thermal vision from above. This goes back to things like Javelins hitting engine blocks rather than the turret.

I have had my suspicions that these cages were there to protect against weaker munitions and not as a protection against Javelins, guess I was right. I knew from reading history books and such that in Urban warfare, tanks turret tops are very much exposed to anyone with an RPG or thrown AT mine on top of a tall building. The Drone munitions part though surprised me, didn't know Ukraine had drones like that with those types of munitions. I knew they had suicide drones and UAVs, just didn't know they had those Turkish ones. As for mortars, I never really thought of using mortars as AT weapons, guess its possible, but that would be very hard to hit the top of a tank with one. If its effective against these smaller weapons, good for them for coming up with a way to defeat them cheap and effectively, but it still won't protect against anything substantial like Javelins or the larger RPG warheads like the ones with tandem charges.

@PvtPartzz

2 жыл бұрын

I don't know how difficult it'd be but you could probably toss mortar rounds out the side of a tallish building onto the tank's roof if you had good enough aim. Idk about arming the mortars beforehand though. Saving Private Ryan can only teach one so much about modern mortar systems.

@ifv2089

2 жыл бұрын

They stoped RPG often in Iraq

@bakermayfield6hunnitdan6er24

2 жыл бұрын

@@ifv2089 while that may be true, they’re shooting themselves in the foot by throwing sandbags and shit on top of them. Skinny bars trap the warhead without letting its pressure sensor get tripped, while thick bars/sandbags/ tree limbs will cause it to explode still. The damage will not be as bad, but I imagine the tank will not be functioning the same after an explosion 2-3 feet above the turret

@ifv2089

2 жыл бұрын

@@bakermayfield6hunnitdan6er24 yeah you don't put things over the top of Bar armour it doesn't work like this. Plenty of evidence showing warheads stuck out the sides of our warriors and bulldog 432 in Iraq and mastiff and viking in Afghan I seen our waggons role into basra Palace with RPG sticking out the Bar, was a normal event after night patrols in the Udey triangle or Shia Flats, worked well we had warriors that took up to 7 hits and were fine

@buckplug2423

Жыл бұрын

It may be hard, but through saturation it is very much possible. 82 mm mortars can be fired REALLY fast

Great video. As I tought, your videos are still top tier, even when longer than 5 minutes. If you enjoy making longer content, you should really consider making more of it, as its very entertaining to watch, and you can explain a lot more.

@rohampasha9667

2 жыл бұрын

Gonna call BS here , this "expert" has 12mins to explaine why top-mounted slat armor cant nullify modern top-attack ATGMs but fails to show one example of a Russian mbt destroyed by one ...

@DerMetalmatiker

2 жыл бұрын

@@rohampasha9667 🤡

I mean, I looked at them and thought 'they are expecting urban, maybe they are a 'rain-shield' for debris off of buildings or other such things, to prevent the risk of them damaging hatches or otherwise complicating operation'. Could also, maybe, be some sort of 'this is allied' identifier as well. IIRC a lot of Ukrainian tanks are modifications of Russian tanks. Maybe that change to silhouette is an attempt at a sneaky vis ID shortcut? I expect that no matter what their intended purpose is, they probably don't fill it too well. Aluminum/steel frames tend not to be very good for much these days.

@Shaun_Jones

2 жыл бұрын

That’s not a bad theory, I suspect you don’t want cinder blocks dropping onto your thermal sight.

@ALGNC

2 жыл бұрын

There weren't any modifications of russian tanks only USSR one's

@jtnachos16

2 жыл бұрын

@@ALGNC Bruh. Most of Russia's current inventory is modifications of 'USSR' vehicles. Russia was also the controlling stake in the USSR. There is ZERO point in that distinction when talking about armored vehicles.

@aoki6332

2 жыл бұрын

@@jtnachos16 yeah and the most advance Russian equipment is not even in the front line since they could not even produce a lot of them and people are saying that there probably to expensive to use so yeah most of the war is fought whit soviet era design

@ALGNC

2 жыл бұрын

@@jtnachos16 So what , this is still not russian tanks

Love this video, thank you for covering some of the stuff going on today, really nice to get a expert's opinion on it!

Some very interesting insight here, would love to see more of this kind of videos!

Oh boy, can't believe NCD really made cope cage become officialy term! ...also, is that a ukrainian military camo and roundels on that T-64B?!

@Spookston

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, it's meant to reflect Ukrainian T-64BVs

@GewelReal

2 жыл бұрын

@@Spookston Sounds cringe

@Chroniclerope

2 жыл бұрын

@@GewelReal you’re cringe. SLAVA Ukraine!

@ev17dan

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chroniclerope you main Germany? Add more stickers on your tank Rommel will notice you!

@lrcolville1

2 жыл бұрын

@@GewelReal why is that cringe?

Suggestions for the top-tier Soviet tank tree to simulate realism. When playing Tier VI-VII Soviets: - Random chance to run out of gas - Random chance to break down - Random chance the crew will abandon the tank - The battle map is disabled or displays an obsolete version. - The map doesn't show you where the next objective is, you have to find a civilian car and ask for directions. - Wheeled vehicles such as the Pantsir have a high chance to blow a tire or the whole rim off of the hub. - Radio comms from other players are disabled, while your comms are broadcast to everyone. - Background music is the Ukrainian national anthem followed by some drunk farmer screaming at you in Russian. - Due to there being much less quantity than advertised, T-80/T-90 players may randomly spawn in T-72s - If a player from Ukraine spawns in the match, there's a random chance your tank/helicopter/jet will explode seemingly out of nowhere - If you drive off the map, your tank gets towed away by a Gypsy in a tractor. - When you shoot a missile, it will fly into a hospital. - New achievement: cause an ammo explosion 100 times when shooting T-72/T-80/T-90 Soviet tanks and get the title "Rocket Man"

@dappersem1524

2 жыл бұрын

Aaahhahaha, underrated comment

@Boekoe12

2 жыл бұрын

This made me laugh way to hard

@pigeon5520

2 жыл бұрын

absolute gold

@TheNobleFive

2 жыл бұрын

Golden

@AlexV____

2 жыл бұрын

cringe

btw love that you are also repping the T-64b with the UAF skin, definitely one of my most favorite ways to play

Great video, really ennjoyed the theories and analysis

I defiantly would like to see more stuff like this, as in people with a different knowledge base sharing it, and maybe having more of a back and forth could be interesting to see.

Well made and interesting analysis. It does remind me a bit of my visit at the Bovington tank museum. They had a T-55 with cutouts in the armour. The info plate stated that this was a training tank and on those, they made the armour thicker, so crews got a (false) sense of beeing well protected.

Liked the format of this video. More Q and As in the future please!!!

Great video, it would be nice if there was more in this format. P.S. 5:12 These are not missiles. MAM family of guidied munitions was developed for UCAVs and aircraft with small payload , such as the TB2 and they don't have any propulsion system to save weight.

@Th0nky

2 жыл бұрын

I believe you are correct in the sense they do not use a propulsion system. I had higher confidence that the MAM-C had no propulsion system, but Roketsan's own publications on the MAM-L were not very clear about this, especially with the speculated ranges they gave for this system. It should be noted though, that in my industry the term "missile" often refers more broadly to any thrown weapon, be it constantly propelled or not. Still, I think in the future I'll try to use the term "missile" more sparingly as it does refer to a more narrow interpretation to most people, and rely on the term "guided munitions" or "guided weapons" instead. Either way, thanks for the feedback!

@Hardbass2021

2 жыл бұрын

So the MAM-C and MAM-L are some sort of glide bomb?

@olekzajac5948

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hardbass2021 Kinda. At least from what I've heard on the internet (Poland bought Bayraktars half a year ago and there was a lot of "hype" in the industry media). Unfortunately everything that Baykar Defence publishes seems to be in Turkish.

@porsvasse

2 жыл бұрын

Turkish here, if you guys would like I can give it a shot at translating the stuff on Bayraktar Defence's website

@mikedrop4421

2 жыл бұрын

@@porsvasse you guys did a good job on the TB-2 they are kicking azz

It seems that there were some tanks fitted with the cope cages which have turned them from catastrophic kills by NLAWs into a mobility kill or a hit onto an external fuel tank by triggering the NLAW early.

Really interesting topic, especially given the world as it stands rn Definitely interested in more like this, and at this length

I appreciate this video. I saw the title and my first thought was "oh, javelins" and it was interesting to hear why that's not really the case

That was very informative. Thanks for sharing this

For the cope, and keeping the conscript from running away 🤣

Hi! Love your content, have a great day!

That type of video is really interesting, please more stuff like this :)

Lovely video, and i would actually very much like this sort of video, perhaps people add into a poll with war questions that is voted on, and highest voted is chosen next perhaps?

I think he's right about them expecting urban combat and attacks from above. Something he didn't mention was grenades and mines- tanks in WW1 had similar cages to allow grenades to roll off or blow up at a safe distance from the tanks skin. In addition, I guess it doubles as a sun shield and a "hope this helps" vs NLAW and other top attack stuff.

@quakethedoombringer

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly the concept of having cage to roll grenades off the top of the vehicle seems really arbitrary for me, especially for early WW2 vehicles. Vehicles are always on the move so good luck throwing grenades on higher position right into the hatch, if anything it will just roll off or misses the vehicle entirely (without the cage). Cage armor makes more sense for RPG though

@Mr.McWatson

2 жыл бұрын

@@quakethedoombringer Yeah, I guess the idea is more that the grenade detonates up there rather than on the skin, useful when they get bogged down in cities. Main use is probably RPGs tho

This has to be one of the longest videos Spookston has ever made

awesome video, very informative. It would be more than welcome to see videos on the same wave length as this one

i'd love your friend to return in a future presentation going over the new equipment and its use in this war, sort of review of how some was put to better use than expected, and which to worse.

I love how they are officially called cope cages now

@deathtrooper199

2 жыл бұрын

Despite being called Cope Cages (dumb name though), at least it's better than none when it comes to protecting the top turrets, camouflage or storage. Even though there're weapon systems that made them useless

@misterputin8898

2 жыл бұрын

@@deathtrooper199 APS: am i a joke to you?

@thomasstevenhebert

2 жыл бұрын

@@deathtrooper199 not really, the result is debris trapping the crew in the track until they are cooked alive

@deathtrooper199

2 жыл бұрын

@@misterputin8898 They do but they don't seem to use due to some reasons that conflict with their point of view, even though it's possible to obtain it

@deathtrooper199

2 жыл бұрын

@@thomasstevenhebert supposedly most modern tanks have escape hatches nowadays but due to the catastrophic conditions that Russian tanks are infamous of they'll have a hard time trying to escape while praying or hoping not to get cooked alive

it's for coping Cope cages

Great video, would love to see more content like this.

Very insightful, I'd like to see more videos like this in the future.

"Why Do Russian Tanks Have Cages?" "Because Javelin go w h h o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o s s s s s h... *BANG* "

One last benefit might be psychological. Having something up there might make the crew feel better than having nothing. We know from WWII that crews stuck all sorts of things on the front of their tanks to try to increase 'armour protection' whether it worked or not.

@seushimarejikaze1337

2 жыл бұрын

that armor protection - most iconic would be sandbags on some shermans - actually worked well. it just wasnt a remedy for all types of threats, just some of them (like handheld panzerfaust launchers)

Loved this style. Thinky is indeed very knowledgeable :) thanks for the content, keep safe both of you.

Long spookston video highly appreciated

Any blast in front of armor becomes less threatening. And these cages also have a reconnaissance function when both sides have the same tanks.

I think one of the biggest reasons why they're used so widely is literally for copium purposes. Urban Warfare is very harsh on the already nonexistent Russian Morale, even the idea of some additional protection against threats is a small morale boost.

@PilotTed

2 жыл бұрын

It protects against mortars, RPGs, and suicide drones, and small bombs dropped from drones so I think they are working as intended.

@TirantheIdiot

2 жыл бұрын

The sheer amount of tanks being lost in Ukraine disagree with that statement

I really enjoyed this information, would like to see more like this in the future.

Yes, videos like this would be much appreciated! I'd like to see more content about real world tanks and other armoured fighting vehicles

HOLD ON A video that lasts longer than 10 minutes? Isn't that a first time for the channel? Also, interesting subject to talk about, it's the first time i hear about that. And as long as the subjects interest me, i would love to see something similar.

@Th0nky

2 жыл бұрын

Nope, there are longer videos but they are generally quite old.

If we start seeing more urban warfare, I wonder if tank crews will start tying ballistic blankets/other protection from small arms over these cages. Might provide additional protection from ambush-style attacks for crew exposed to man weapons systems or observe targets.

@xyxxanx9810

2 жыл бұрын

You´d cover up all your optics and soft protection won´t stand up to any sort of rifle round, not that Russia even remotely has the funds to purchase any form of appliqué, given that they seem to have skimped quite heavily on maintenance.

Enjoyed your video so I gave it a Thumbs Up as a support

“This is my friend...” >pulls out HAL 9000

Cant wait for russian MBTs in warthunder to get cope cages that are incredibly effective because I guarantee they will get them and I guarantee they will overperform

@andrewgause6971

2 жыл бұрын

Well, Papa Putin has to finance his wrecked economy somehow... Granted, I'm not convinced this invasion is a 5th dimensional chess move to lower the BR of modern Russian ground vehicles. XD

@Bluehawk2008

2 жыл бұрын

And a slew of new decals to put on your vehicle: Z, X, O, chevrons etc.

@MichaelDavis-mk4me

2 жыл бұрын

Russian tonk can stop anything, don't believe what you see on TV, on KZread or through your eyes. Believe what Putin says comrade, tonk cannot be destroyed.

@andrewgause6971

2 жыл бұрын

@@MichaelDavis-mk4me of course Tonk cannot be destroyed. Have you seen how tiny that thing is? No Russian tank has the gun depression necessary to hit it. XD

I was thinking that'd be far more effective against top attack shaped charge munitions if they used the cage as a mounting point for ERA to both increase standoff distance and protect optics and modules on the roof of the tank.

@seushimarejikaze1337

2 жыл бұрын

cage triggers the rocket the same, then comes era into play(that can try to neutralize main charge). its unlikely that it stops javelin completly, but i could stop some other munitions. only conter to javelin that russian have on tanks, is shtora-1 system on t-90A and its not supposed to work that well against those rockets especially since its hard to detect a javelin lock-on (fire-and-forget).

@profacecreator3810

2 жыл бұрын

@@seushimarejikaze1337 it will work pretty well against them. It’s gonna give a warning and pop smoke to break javelin’s lock.

Very insightful video, thanks!

What I gathered from the video, the most effective use of these cope cages are as luggage racks.

"I'm not a furry" Also his discord profile picture:

@andyfriederichsen

2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't say his Discord profile picture is proof. His Twitter account is proof.

Lets all be honest, its for their laundry. Clearly they need it seeing as their stuff runs out of gas and breaks down.

i like this format, it'd be cool to see more speculative videos about modern armor

I liked this video even though its different from your usual content but I think some more on screen visuals would be nice.

The fact they're just called cope cages is just funny to me, and out there, one day, online military analysts and military personnel would start using cope cage as a common name for them.

you see, its simple, its more level ground to squat on

Well done! Your friend has some amazing knowledge.

Without going into the video, I remember hearing WAY before this conflict, it was originally meant to stop a drone attacks coming from the top. I might hear that in the video and will edit comment along the way.

cage armor seems like an idea r/NonCredibleDefense would have come up with

@NFDave1992

2 жыл бұрын

They are roasting the hell out of those cages there lol

@classicforreal

2 жыл бұрын

They literally invented the term cope cage

Regular RPG7 rockets are still very dangerous from the top down, just get on the roof of a building or a appartment balcony and wait for the enemy tank to get close enough . The cage dont neeed to stop a javelin to be effective

@ifv2089

2 жыл бұрын

The warheads can get stuck in the slats and fail to detonate with the RPG what it was mainly used for in Iraq and Afghan

I liked this video style from you a lot

Glad your friend can talk this long about a topic, because I finally saw a long Spook gameplay video, and it was quite pleasing

Cope cages

Also there is an often overlooked problem with HEAT rounds. They are designed for optimal focus of the jet at the impact point. If the impact point is the cage, that means the jet travels roughly 1 meter through air before hitting the roof. If the heat round is small enough(and most top attack munitions are indeed small, this 1 meter air gap might be enough to disperse the jet to the point where it can't penetrate the roof. In a way, air is armor :)

@seushimarejikaze1337

2 жыл бұрын

thats why some nera armors use air gaps as effective method of stopping some heat munitions. its well known. whether 0.6kg of explosive material, that is installed on javelin, is enough to penetrate top armor after traveling at least 50cm through air is up to debate.

How do you get the decal that you had on the front of your T64B?

I suspect it's actually a city fighting adaptation so they don't get snookered by an RPG-7 from above, or a drone with a shaped charge setup mounted or dropped from it.

This guy is cool, you should keep him around 😎

Now we need to know about the magics of the Turret Ejection System a lot of Russian tanks have recently been using.

@mikedrop4421

2 жыл бұрын

I works in conjunction with the flaming perimeter security system. The tank emits fire from everywhere to keep intruders out.

@hakdov6496

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikedrop4421 self-cremating tank saves lots of money that would have been needed for crew burials

@jonathantan2469

2 жыл бұрын

T-72s are well mannered. They take their hats off when they meet a Ukrainian with an NLAW. ;)

For storing Kayaks and large baggage. Sunshade umbrella for those long days stuck in a muddy field or in line at the fuel depot.

I just found out about your art twitter, super cool stuff you got there!

1:55 Old man Thinky is revealed as Ben Shapiro with a voice changer

Cope cages are the schurzen of modern battles. Designed to protect against "obsolete" threats, like older generation HEAT warheads and mines but absolutely useless against more modern implements. For the ww2 implement, it's only useful for AT rifles. In both cases, they add more weight to protect against older threats, but contribute to their aesthetic appeal.

@hakdov6496

2 жыл бұрын

i guarantee there is some Ukrainian out there still using a PTRD-41

Very nice Video. Very informnativ. I am currently working on the same topic for my german speaking channel and I think I have to make additions to my script :)

A quick response is to prevent the crew from escaping the tank if it catches fire.

called the cope cages because they need a coping mechanism against anti tank missiles

@sadmedia3002

2 жыл бұрын

its been a thing for a while now lol i think since either serbia or Chechnya

The most likely use for the cope cage IMO is to cause a Javelin to tumble after hitting it.

I'd love to see more interview style videos! Just remember to check that the audio is recording before going on with the interview lol

Please have more of these arm chair historians on the channel it really fill out the gaps in knowledge

Soviet tank design: very low tanks that are harder to spot Russian tank crews: Let's put a metal cage on top of our turrets to make it 2m taller 🥴

It is a fairly cheap installation and protects from some common armamanets. So why is it clowmed on? It's fairly cost efficient and easy to install

Super deal! Choice content as always. Many thanx 👍👍

really helpful material! thanks!