I think Primaris should have just been rescaled Firstborn. I don't like how the Primaris undermined and overshadow the Firstborn.

@derykhenderson5187

5 ай бұрын

Agreed. It killed the game for me. Primeass also aren't truescale. If they were truescale they would need to be larger. All they did was introduce problems

@AussieDadAndrew

5 ай бұрын

They are basically Ultramarines in different colours

@derykhenderson5187

5 ай бұрын

@AussieDadAndrew no.... as much as I hate Ultramarines (Word Bearer player) Ultramarines didn't violate the lore like a slaneshi cultist violates other slaneshi cultists. Ultramarines were just the boring brothers. Primeass marines took the legendary angels of death who were eons old and towered over humanity in terms of power and intellect and were a relic of a bygone age and then said... meh. Actually we now have soooper doooopeier marines that were just made. It's worse than midiclorians in star wars. It's literally saying F@#$ the Jedi, here are soooooper doooopeir Jedi. I guess Darth Vader and Luke were really nothing special. Oh unless you mean they further violate the lore by being from guilliman and therefore literally all being Ultramarines then yes.

@painfulcrowd

5 ай бұрын

I agree, but I believe primaris marines should've been a detachment of the firstborn, like an in between regular marines and terminators

@kmoney890

4 ай бұрын

@@derykhenderson5187There were atleast 6 different versions of super duper marines including space marines themselves to thunder warriors. This isn’t even including the shit chaos gets up to. I don’t know why people act like Primaris are some completely different thing like grey knights or Custodes are.

Honestly, I don't think all of the criticism was just old fans whining about models. GW dropped the ball HARD with their lore. If Primaris marines were just upscaled Firstborn marines, or if Cawl had made a new mark of space marine armor, or even if they made Primaris marines a thing but the only way to make them is with new aspirants or crossing the rubricon, the backlash wouldn't have been nearly as bad. The thing people were concerned about was the whole "Cawl has tens of thousands of space marines from the Heresy era and they're all perfect and better than everyone else and their gene flaws are gone and they can't fall to chaos and they saved the Imperium!" It was so poorly done. Blood Angels were now red Ultramarines, Space Wolves were grey Ultramarines, Dark Angels were green Ultramarines. People watched the individual identity of their favorite factions get fucking obliterated by a wrecking ball and had a new identity shoved in their face just because "We decided this identity is more brand friendly so you have to like it." The natural reaction to that is to become contrarian and say "Fuck you, the old models look worse but at least they're something I can like."

@clinch4402

Жыл бұрын

Always this. No matter how much I try to like some primaris designs, something still feels terribly off about them as an army and puts me off seriously collecting them. Firstborn chapters used to have 10,000 years to pick from and grow with their own customs and armour marks - and now pretty much all space marine homebrews are forcibly rooted in this 42k "cawl gifted you with some new seed by sending random custodes across the galaxy to find your little chapter" storyline. There's absolutely no getting around it without downgrading to older, unsupported models, and it makes the universe feel small.

@dylanwagstaff2505

Жыл бұрын

Hyperbole and nostalgia really, the lore has addressed the upside and downside of primaris marines and how the og's are still kicking ass. It's not like the tactical marine looked different for each chapter and GW are still releasing updated chapter specific models.

@sugarcombfilms3467

Жыл бұрын

@@dylanwagstaff2505 I'm talking about at launch. There was no "firstborn are still more experienced and better" back then. It was very much "primaris are the bestest thingz evar!!!!" As for models, at launch, all of the new primaris models were very clearly Ultramarines. Every lieutenant had a laurel, every captain had a frilled cape, every sword was a gladius, most of the boxes even came with Ultramarine transfers. Compared to what was available for firstborn kits, all of the character models for primaris were laughably ill fitting for half of the first founding chapters' aesthetics.

@krissteel4074

Жыл бұрын

Its honestly a legitimate complaint when if you essentially have someone turn up to game day with some stuff that they pulled out of their arse because 'reasons' and plonked it down on the table going "well its time to play kids!" Now if they'd spent some time working up to it, introducing some at least 'plausible' reasons that this going whipped out and waved around in front of everyone without any shame. People might have taken it a bit better because at the launch of them, it was about as elegant and well done as two monkeys trying to fuck a football while asking you to pay to watch. Hence you get exactly two types of people The ones who nope out of there and don't need to see it in their lives and the ones that are fully prepared to plonk down 500 bucks to get front row seats at the football fucking. 40k desperately needs something new and interesting to it, but oh boy, it needs to be done well before anyone will want it.

@clinch4402

Жыл бұрын

@@krissteel4074 Yup, any sort of decent lead up would have worked. Introduce Cawl earlier, have a campaign over a sytem with an STC for the new tacticus armour. But no, blatant profit over fans. Baffling to see this overlooked.

My biggest problem with Primaris is: Firstborns were very versatile tactically. With Primaris, GW is simply printing one of each type to fulfill what firstborn marines could do. And it took FOREVER for firstborns to get updated so they were cost effective. Finally, the biggest nail in the coffin - the release of Primaris coincided with them making Scouts Elite choices instead of troop choices. Most of my scouts are now sitting in a box since they are effectively worthless.

@ObjectiveMedia

8 ай бұрын

Everything after 8th is trash. 2nd-6th is the golden era as far as rules/gameplay goes.

@fuzztsimmers3415

5 ай бұрын

@@ObjectiveMedia You went a little far anything past 5th is mediocre to horrible.

@DetectiveLance

4 ай бұрын

​@@fuzztsimmers3415 Tell me you're both over 40 without telling me you're both over 40.

@DrakonPhD

3 ай бұрын

​@@ObjectiveMediaPlayer numbers completely disagree with you. The reason for 8th edition was that the game was stagnating.

There is also the problem that Primaris are an entirely new thing, when they could have just as well done a range refresh like they did the Chaos Space marines after 8th Ed. But the way Primaris was introduced just was a slap in the face for every lore enthusiast and the people worried that GW just made them lose cash on models that would be Legend'd out of playability. And the new Guardsmen make the whole scale argument void as well since they're barely half a head smaller than Primaris I'm also reminded of the Aspect Marine Argument, pretty much every new Primaris Infantry unit is some one note Kit, bland unadorned Intercessors with a different flavor of GUN, that's even less imaginative than the Aspect Warriors of the Eldar that have major lore stuff behind every specialist unit, that are also visually distinct. Missing that face grill is also very jaring.

@guardsmen2945

Жыл бұрын

its even worse when they release a whole kit/unit that something a single tactical squad/devastator squad could do. I found running tac squads after the 2W update along with a redemptor to be much more appealing and flexible in an ever changing game let alone tournament play where you carry the same army against other players/factions making a general all rounder army, difficult to build, hard to control, costly both in points and IRL money. not even going to mention how slow and jarring the release is since when a new unit drops the rules from that new unit + a codex update make it so that its necessary to include i.e plasma being the only infantry anti tank until 9th ed, making phobos and haft baked units rather than a complete units like a unit than wouldn't get superseded in its role when the next model drop comes.

@lordofshades9852

Жыл бұрын

The guardsmen thing is void, as they're enhanced and modified humans

@SCHMALLZZZ

Жыл бұрын

I prefer the Mk IV style face, I can still remember the first time cracking open my 5th edition starter set and seeing that MK IV with the flamer.

@guardsmen2945

Жыл бұрын

@@SCHMALLZZZ that's not mk4. mk4 would have looked like the one from the armour through the ages set.

@bobskywalker2707

11 ай бұрын

@@lordofshades9852guardsmen are enhanced and modified humans? What lore are you reading?

I think a large part of the annoyance is that primaris both in lore and irl felt less like a new generation and more a replacement, like as if instead of a different flavor of coke that occasionally goes back to the older flavors, they give you a sprite, which in all fairness alot of people prefer, but it a whole different thing. It doesn't help that it led to alot of "will they won't they" when it comes to older kits, cause it isn't as gratifying to play with two kits of completely different qualities so alot of us who like things like devstators have to wait and see or wonder if they were already replaced. The options in that case is either play a different faction or play Horus Heresey where you don't get the cool primaris stuff. It feels less like a evolution and more like they're kicking out the older workers who have been there for years with new spunky guys who aren't bad by any means, but the fact that there is still a air of who else from the old guard is going to get kicked and whose going to get promoted is still there.

@Ewil.Bluetooth

9 ай бұрын

As a noob I wonder if it would have been possible and preferable to just make these new updated miniatures without having any new lore for them? Like they were only the normal Space Marines but in an updated product. Was there really a need to point out their differences?

@SpartanS117C

3 ай бұрын

​@@Ewil.BluetoothIt's basically just to advertise a size update. Also they aren't even true to scale.

Hi Arthur, I'm Deez

@tygawyga5411

Жыл бұрын

Deez what ? 😃

@DioDeezBrando

Жыл бұрын

@@tygawyga5411 Dio Deez Brando, it's in my name

@velstadtvonausterlitz2338

Жыл бұрын

​@@DioDeezBrando 🥜

@wanamingo4961

Жыл бұрын

DEEZ NUTZ LOL GOTTEM HAHAHAHA 💯💯💯💵💸🤑💰💵💸💸 I hit a homeless man with my car in 2008 and I didn’t even stop to check if he lived

@Fartknuckle_the_4th

Жыл бұрын

@@wanamingo4961 💀

If you started playing after they introduced primaris you don't get it and you never will.

My biggest problem was how they basically tried to turn everything into various colours of ultramarines. Primaris worked fine for ultras, fists etc right out of the gate but the really unique chapters like space wolves and blood angels lost so so much of their unique identity and flavour... Also, the early primaris looked too clean and high tech, they looked like Tau. They have definitely got better and the black templar range refresh has given me a lot of hope as they are undeniably a big upgrade

@sirdragon6860

Жыл бұрын

The Primaris Death Company Kit is a fucking joke compared to the Firstborn Version

@PelinalWhitestrake36

Жыл бұрын

@@sirdragon6860 THIS; I'm a Lamenter Player and lemme tell you; for making my first born company the death company set is a fucking godsent! Its cheap, has a LOT of BA decore and has a lot of nice bits! Meanwhile the Primaris counterpart is literally 5 intersessors with the Primaris BA upgrade pack attached to it.

@DemonicEngineer

Жыл бұрын

Well anything New that looks even remotely "clean" gets called Tau. Freaking Craftworld Eldar are super clean and High Tech but don't get accused of looking too much like Tau.

@GERAT023

Жыл бұрын

@@DemonicEngineer its called bullshit opinion. people expect brand new rolled out space marines to already come covered in battle scars, bolter holes and honorific text glued all over their armor straight out of the forge world.

@unwise_TW

Жыл бұрын

I’ll never forgive the neutering of the iron hands’ aesthetic it’s one of the only things they have

I don't mind the primaries I just wish they had it where instead of them automatically being on the battlefield at the same rank as veterans from 10,000 years ago and the chapters that received them were allowed to put them through the proper trials and properly trained them they would be magnificent

@osvaldojaviergalleguillosh8402

Жыл бұрын

That and the imperium being somehow fullstrengh because of this deus-ex-machina event made the war of supervivencia lose his bling to me. Why bother loving the struggle when geedubs can pop out of nowere another thing like this for more pounds rushing the writers.

@ChillAssTurtle

Жыл бұрын

Theyre getting the welcome to wendys, today is friday, today is your first afternoon/night shift, figure it out or i'll kill you myself :)

@milktenders6219

Жыл бұрын

I mean, the Primaris often do go through chapter introduction trials, as well as having the gene seed of their parent chapter

@tastefulavenger

Жыл бұрын

This implies veterans arent going through the rubicon operation, becoming primaris and still keeping their rank and title when... that is confirmed to be a thing that is ongoing. Most named characters demonstrate this. The battlesector 40k campaign also shows how 1st born vets are still helping most of the new primaris reinforcements who are all green behind the ears but still show they have the pride and defects of their shorter older brothers.

@TheExostranger.

Жыл бұрын

The primaris DID have to though, my brother there are multiple books like the dawn of fire series where the primaris had to prove themselves to their firstborn brothers to earn their respect and acceptance

i think they should've just gave the old marines better proportion's literally wouldve caused no problems

@Grubnar

5 ай бұрын

You mean like they did with the Chaos Space Marines?

Small story. I was introduced to Warhammer 40k back in high school because of the series Emperor text-to-speech (specifically the clip of everyone killing each other because of heresy). I watch through the series, get a bit of lore watching it and become interested. Go search up more about it online and learn Cadia's fallen, Guilliman's returned, and the Marines got an upgrade. I had more of a problem with Guilliman and Cadia than the new Marines (not that I had anything to stand on because I would've considered my self pretty amateur and casual at the time I just watched the web-series at that point and was worrying over nothing compared to a long-time fan). Small edit for clarity: I'm fine with the story advancing now.

@totalnerd5674

Жыл бұрын

Hey one second... your comment (to me at least) says that it is from 5 days ago, but the video right now is only about 40 minutes old... ???

@caseycarroll476

Жыл бұрын

@@totalnerd5674 Video was available 5 days ago as members only then was released publicly.

@totalnerd5674

Жыл бұрын

@@caseycarroll476 Ah

@clinch4402

Жыл бұрын

The story advancing makes the universe feel tiny by focusing on the "big events" that somehow constantly involve Ultramarines. GW should have focused on more Badab War type stories WITHIN the 10,000 years since the Heresy. There was no need to focus on a select few characters... unless you're trying to appeal to the marvel demographic.

@samihawkins2283

11 ай бұрын

TTS is weird because I'm pretty sure they started that series like right before 8th edition and the 40k ending it's decades of plot stagnation and somehow managed to predict the future with it's whole storyline about the primarchs coming back

Imagine Gulliman watching his brothers scream and gnash and throw themselves to the warp as their legions split themsleves into ineffectual splinters and fall to infighting and chaos and then actually having the audacity to to pull Cawl to the side and tell him "aight im taking a nap at the capitol of Imperium 2, make sure to have my nine secret full strength legions of Space Marine 2s ready when I get up" Also imagine knowing part of the cornerstone of your lore is that there is nothing new, that even something like a "regular" bolter has centuries of owners recorded like an old library book, that every "regular" suit of armor is an ancient and nearly irreplacable loss, and this chucklefriend comes out of nowhere with millions of suits of brand new marine armor, terminator armor, flying tanks and new weapons and suddenly every chapter is dumping their old relics in the bin for the new stuff

For me the problem was more that it just felt so contrived. It was less about old being good new bad but more that "hey heres just a guy who figured it out, we invented him 2 weeks ago, oh and he can do it better, in less time and also with traitors, they never corrupt by the way, also we made the bolter but better, and we made 6 versions of it with their own statlines". Admittedly some of those are somewhat fixed but the bad smell lingers. Its also about how each of these guys in their kits have a seperate list entry where a good half of them could be "ye you can equip these with flamers instead", sure sell them with the unique name but god please cut down how many seperate rules entries are needed for a unit with 0 options, you should just make them the options.

Strictly from a lore perspective, the reason that I find the 40k universe compelling is that is it a vision of the future in which technology - at least for humanity - is mostly ancient and stagnant. I’m fascinated by the idea of relic weapons, armour, and vehicles and ships that have been in service for centuries or even millennia, constantly being cobbled back together into working order from spare parts because the Imperium has forgotten more about technology than it currently knows. Adding to this rich texture are the ancient traditions and flaws (both physical and mental) of the Legions. The Primaris threaten to bulldoze all this glorious rough, gritty, lived-in atmosphere with their slick and homogenized newness. There’s no better example of how the Primaris undermine what makes 40k unique than Redemptor Dreadnoughts: in lore, the advanced systems of these Primaris Dreadnoughts burn through the lifeforces of the severely injured marines who pilot them, resulting in the frequent replacement of the marines and their sarcophagi. If GW does away with Firstborn marines, this means the end of what was previously the defining characteristic of Dreadnoughts, that they are venerable ancients.

@nomus1172

Жыл бұрын

To be fair even the original Astartes were kinda a rush job . The primarus are just what the space marines were originally intended to be. If a lady named Astartes can make space marines why not an actual smart guy Space marine power armor got better so why not the marines.

@Ghastly_Grinner

11 ай бұрын

I loathe that goofy stagnation stuff in 40k it's basically British writers cramming the feelings about their collapsing civilization into 40k

@KevinJohnson-cv2no

11 ай бұрын

"The Primaris threaten to bulldoze all that is-" Lmao lemme stop you right there dweeb. If you're losing your shit over the most marginal of technological advancements then you should've abandoned the hobby years ago, bc Space Marines get a new mark of Power Armor every couple of years and have gotten this way before the Primaris were a thing.

@OGXenos

11 ай бұрын

The problem with stagnation is that it goes nowhere.

@N0TYALC

10 ай бұрын

I don’t think the age of a dreadnought pilot was ever *the* defining characteristic. There are plenty of beings way older than them. The defining characteristic of a dreadnought is “severely wounded space marine piloting a machine because service ends at death, and severe wounds ain’t death.”

I think primaris are better when it comes to scale, but the firstborn are no doubt slightly better proportion wise.

@TheBoneZone40k

Жыл бұрын

I respect this take a lot. I may have to agree with you

@Fuzmonster59

Жыл бұрын

Wait, what's the difference between scale and proportion?

@justsomeguywithamustache.9096

Жыл бұрын

@@Fuzmonster59 scale is the overall size of the model in comparison to other models, proportion is the size of parts of the model in comparison to other parts on the model.

@davidrittle5980

Жыл бұрын

@@Fuzmonster59 We like em Chunky

@guardsmen2945

Жыл бұрын

@@davidrittle5980 "we like em big, we like em chonky" - Unknown Ork warlord, circa M39.7

I think the reason people hate Primaris Marines is because the firstborn marines were the things that the franchise as it is today was built upon, and when Primaris was introduced and replaced the old marines in the dark imperium box people were definitely not too stoked about losing that link to their past still being made on the scale it once was. In short People don’t like change.

@amishrambo4096

Жыл бұрын

Woulda gone over a lot smoother if Primaris was a new set of fancy armor for marines rather then “new super cool better-then-your-marines” marines

@brok56

Жыл бұрын

​@@amishrambo4096 Agreed. If it went like this. Guilliman wakes up and says, Hey there marines, i see your armour is getting a bit shoddy. I had these blueprints in The making and it seems they were forgotten along with me going into a coma.

@demonic_myst4503

Жыл бұрын

Dont like chage plays a game aboit never ending war Um war and change are twins u dont get one without soon getting the other

@imjustsam1745

Жыл бұрын

And then you have guys like me who saw the old ones decades ago thought they looked ridiculous forgot about 40k entirely, then saw primaris, thought they looked cool and got into 40k off a box of intercessors.

@saltysocks1074

Жыл бұрын

I always wondered why they didn'tjust reintroduce thunder warriors with space marine oversight and kill switches

My biggest problem with primaris is that almost all primaris units on the tabletop are just variations of already existing firstborn units who, like you said, were blatantly better than their og counterparts to boost their sales. The Repulsor is a Landraider. ATV-Attack Bike. Outrider-Bike Squad. Aggressor-Centurion Assault. Eradicator-Centurion Devastator. Impulsor-Razorback. All of the random landspeeders. A primaris version of every single character including 40000 lieutenants. The list goes on and on. My biggest problem with this is that once primaris became better balanced with firstborn units it leaves an incredible amount of bloat for their codex, where they just have a bunch of units that all kind of do the same things but slightly differently. Maybe that's a good thing because it allows for you to build your army however you wish, while giving you new options that don't make your old units obsolete. But I prefer simplicity whenever possible. Anyway, cheers.

@jackoleen1236

Жыл бұрын

That is the point, they want to make both available while having the same option for both. Edit: I agree with you, that the rules bloat is a problem.

@fernandorivera4719

Жыл бұрын

Don't forget bloat within the Primaris line itself: Hellblasters vs Erradicators vs the new misdile dudes, or all the variants of intercessor.

The old heroic scale was better for identifying game pieces at the distances you'd be away from them when playing. True scale is better for promotional images on a screen. Also have you seen the newer Sisters of Battle and Guard models next to Primaris? Scale creep is already making 'true scale' incorrect. Kasarkin in particular are huge.

@SCHMALLZZZ

Жыл бұрын

That's why I use Bolt Action minis for my humans instead of the crap GW makes.

@oga-booga

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, half of his point are kinda shit. .Scale kreep has already doomed truescale. .No im not going to cut GW slac becuse they made 40k, that logic is kapitalist BS .GW could have "refreshed" the space marines by just true scaling first born. And so on and so on

Well after thinking about it for a bit here's my thoughts. I think Primaris undermine one of the core themes of 40k, the idea of stagnation. The Imperium is supposed to be a dying empire that's relying on tech from ten thousand years ago with little to no advancement on anything. Cawl (basically created to justify the Primaris from a lore pov) created a whole new kind of space marine, and updated their entire armory and vehicle line. They also are made with the idea of being adaptable to several threats. This means that the idea that the Imperium is a dying empire kind of dumb since they can advance on the tech level of their most elite troops they can deploy in numbers. It makes it so that the Tau or Eldar's main advantage in tech moot since the Imperium can invent stuff now without causing a civil war. I also find the story of how Cawl adapted the geneseed to remove all the flaws and make it harder to corrupt by chaos annoying. On a model perspective it makes it so that initally it felt very generic with primaris, sure likely a lot of it will return and some already have but it'll likely take some time. I also find it weird that some guy who didn't exist in the setting could do this but someone like Fabius Bile who would be a lot more easily set up in the lore to make something like the Primaris never did. Maybe that's how they create CSM Primaris without having traitor Primaris. From a model perspective I have the issue that it makes it so that the Marine bloat of releases is even worse becuase GW is basically gonna create a Primaris version of every SM unit that will be better than the Firstborn version to increase sales, while some ranges still use models that were made two decades ago. Also this might be a personal thing but I find the Primaris naming system annoying because with Firstborn models the type of marine was easily put in a name. But with a name like "Incursor" "Intercessor" "Aggressor" means I have to look at the model and then the name again to understand what the unit does. Which is pretty obviously for copyright reasons. I have issues with it from a lore and hobby point of view and putting this together it makes it feel like GW wants to overhaul the SM line to sell more models and force SM players to change out their old model lines overtime. Considering the rules that I've seen for Firstborn models in 10th and how restricted they are makes me feel like they're gonna try to phase them out completely by 11th-12th ed.

@amanofnoreputation2164

9 ай бұрын

Umitigated stagnation isn't very stagnating. It's the interplay of progress and regression that makes something truely feel like it is stuck in place because otherwise there is no contrast. What the primaris represent is simply a new era of stagnation.

Good Points I agree with a lot of them But the fact of the matter is GW could’ve just updated the models I mean look at old orc models they are ridiculous but they did not make a new orc breed just so they could improve the models. It would have been stupid to do that. Same with the Marines, if they were so desperate to create a change to justify the improvement they could have just said that it is a new Mark of armor and that is why it looks so different. But honestly I think it would have been better for them to just make the improvement and say nothing Honestly I am very disappointed with the primaris because I had assumed that their introduction was to lay the groundwork for a second heresy. I thought the return of Bobby was going to result in a split if the next Primark disagrees with him. I was assuming that Robert would try to change the imperium too much and that these Primeros would side with Robert. I thought this was some kind of genius plan because then you’ve got a reason to have the. Space marines versus space marines where chaos is not involved.

I get why people like Primaris, as I currently have a friend whose building an army exclusively out of Primaris Marines and I will admit that some of the Primaris kits do look really cool(like the Bladeguard and Phobos infiltrators). If people like Primaris and want to build Primaris armies exclusively, then they should absolutely go for it. HOWEVER, as someone who first got into the franchise through watching KZread videos back in 2015, up until this point I’ve always felt like the Primaris have never been quite as iconic as their firstborn brethren. Sure, they’re the poster boys now, but a lot of the best memes/games that helped me get into the franchise to begin with had firstborn marines exclusively. Granted, I’m not too sure how long that’s gonna last with Space Marine 2 on the horizon, but still. This, alongside me just simply preferring the looks of the MKVII and MKVI armor in general, led me to start my army as a primarily firstborn force. However, the firstborn in 40k face a very unique problem in the sense that they’re a dying breed, both on tabletop and in the lore, which is not a good feeling(albeit being suitably grimdark). But because I’m a stubborn prick who does what he wants, I don’t give a shit. As long as I can get ahold of some firstborn models, or a firstborn conversion kit, or even a few 3rd party bits if necessary to field my awkwardly scaled boys, then I’m happy. If my boys don’t have the spotlight no more, that’s fine, I was homebrewing my army’s lore anyway. I just don’t want them to disappear from the setting they helped to popularize and for the Primaris to become iconic enough to truly succeed them in the spotlight. Ok, possibly unhinged rant over.

@Ahriman_362

Жыл бұрын

I have a little space marine force and honestly when you swap the primaris with firstborn helmets you will feel home. Just add some purity seals maybe some oldschool shoulder pads and u are good

My issue with primaris is you end up paying more for less options it limits creativity in options with a tactical squad you can run a multi melta a combi melta and a melta gun but with the intercessors your options are what bolters do you want for the squad

@pallidhand9756

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! That’s my problem with all of these silly heavy support marines that could all be made obsolete if primaris just had a version of devastator squads

Honestly, the problems I have about the primaris is completely down to the lore. The circumstances to me are just silly in the setting.

For me, I’m personally upset with how “corporate” their inception seemed. Everything for their lore to their aesthetics just screams: ‘Look! Newer better space marines for you to buy! I bet the young people will love these!’ So not a fan, but obviously a company’s gotta make money, right?

@youngarchaeotech189

Жыл бұрын

Also a lot of their sets are just downright goofy looking😂.

@grimreminder5038

9 ай бұрын

This. Just the "broader audience" target margin given a lot of fluff so long time fans don't completely eviscerate them

@hunterkillerxyz

8 ай бұрын

They just look fucking horrible. They’re really trying to retcon those distinct, badass designs and playing it off as “firstborns” while effectively reshaping their image into gothic buzz lightyears. Truly disgusting. I expect anyone into the hobby to stop buying official minis and 3d print truescale as much as possible. Don’t even get me started on those Tyranid redesigns

@GamerGarm

8 ай бұрын

Exactly! For me it felt like a case of "break glass in case of emergency" for GamesWorkshop. Like the execs were thinking: "We need more money, break the glass!" And the glass was "You people like Space Marines, right? Like... a lot, right? Well... here are Space Marines that are even MORE Space Mariney than the ones you already know and love!" For me it was basically a jumping the shark moment.

@Thunder_warrior

7 ай бұрын

The ONLY reason for shitardis apearance was - money.

I truly hate the Primaris Marines.

maybe the problem about primaris is they get standardized overtimes rather than be backup for the existing firstborn imo

I prefer the better scaled models and better sculpts however, the customisation options with first born kits are unmatched, for example in tactical marines you get various armour marks, I want the new kits to have the ability to make each model an individual if needed, the blade guard kit is a great example of how at the end of building your kit you should have spares

@guardsmen2945

Жыл бұрын

now you either buy a full unit box with faction specific designs on monopose models or be content with alternat helm/pauldrons.

@ozonius_6859

Жыл бұрын

@@guardsmen2945 yeah like the old kits had more "personality" I guess, the new primaris are great blank templates for customisation etc, but the upgrade sprues aren't enough, look at the space wolves and blood angel kits for first born they're so good they need equivalent for intercessors etc

The more I think about it, the more I realise that I just hate Mark 10 armour more than anything else. If they had just upscaled Mark 7, maybe I'd have tolerated the idea of primaris more. I absolutely love that armour and how iconic it is.

@bjornthefellhanded5655

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, a big part is the Aesthetic of Primaris just....doesn't fit SpaceMarines most of the time. There's some Kits that look great(most of the HQs, Phobos Armoured Units&Bladeguard are fine), but the overwhelming majority of Primaris Models just....don't feel like SpaceMarines. I don't like all the funky Primaris versions of the Devastator Squad. The names are odd but fine, but the Aesthetic and the fact they are ALL separate Kits&Units is unnecessary, there's things far more deserving of complete refreshes and some Factions that have been around for years and are STILL missing quite a few Kits&Units. I hate how bland&samey Intercessors, Assault Intercessors, Heavy Intercessors, Aggressors and all the E-Devastators look. I don't like the look of the Redemptor Chassis, period. They tried&failed to combine and replace the Contemptor&Castraferrum Pattern Dreadnoughts. And lastly....holy shit the Hover Vehicles except for the Astreus do NOT belong in the SpaceMarine Model Range...especially the Heavy Stubbers. There's literally over half a dozen Weapon Types they could've chosen instead of a damn Heavy Machine Gun. Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter, Auto Cannon, Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolt Cannon, Multi-Laser, Volkite Culverins and probably a few more things capable of doing the same things as a Heavy Stubber that fit SpaceMarines better. Aesthetically it looks weird, and Lore-wise it makes no fucking sense and is just lazy&inefficient.

@YourStylesGeneric321

Жыл бұрын

Primaris are better in every way

@tappajavittu

Жыл бұрын

For me it's the helmet that's the biggest problem, it's just so painfully generic looking. And I know it's based on the mk IV armor, it still isn't as interesting as mk VI or mk VII helmets, especially mk VII. The anger has turned into a slight annoyance, lol.

@Frosty-kz4om

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, to both replies. You could argue that Mark 10 is more detailed, but ultimately they sacrifice the space knight aesthetic for something more generically sci-fi with all the extra curves. Plus you just can't beat the angry mouth grill.

@captainducktape689

Жыл бұрын

The new sternguard kit has a primaris mk7 helmet. Maybe there’s hope for the future

They could have just released primaris marines as just an upgrade to the old marines. Give everyone some new organs and armor and call it a day. Would have been awesome. No one would have been mad. Instead they went for the flashy "Its a whole new kind of marine" and they teased all this in-universe tension about it that all went nowhere anyway. They should have just been a model update.

the only thing I have issue with the Primaris is that Cawl came out of nowhere and claimed he had somehow improved the emperors work on the gene seed and wasn't instantly killed for heresy.

@fantochedollmaker7030

10 ай бұрын

That was my biggest take too. Who's this gigantic weirdo? Why is nobody challenging his secret army? Why did he stay quiet so long where it could have been info shared before?

@juzkful

10 ай бұрын

Read „the great work“, he didn‘t came out of nowhere, primaris have been commissioned, and killing „him“ is not that easy since his consciousness is data and can be reuploaded plus he has basically a primarch as bodyguard with him at all time….

@eidolon1426

8 ай бұрын

​@@juzkful Ah yes, because *Primarchs* out-rank the Inquisition and Administratum... *totally.* Christ, dude. You know better than to half-ass an argument like that. Cawl would've been arrested and executed of heresy. ALL of the Primarchs *combined* wouldn't be able to stop that from happening. Primarchs cant just say "no" to the Administratum and Inquisition with something like geneseed tampering. You act like Guiliman is THE ruling figure of the Imperium, when in reality he's practially been given a desk in a closet to get him to fuck off but still feel useful. The Administratum would sanction the Inquisition to arrest and/or eliminate Cawl under *any* means necessary. Guiliman CANNOT openly rebel against them or else he'll split the Imperium with *another* civil war. And the Inquisition have killed things more complicated than an A.I. before. Cawl isn't *that* difficult a mark. E.M.P.s exist in this universe *too,* actually, so it might be as easy as *legally* raiding his workshop while he's there, popping an EMP the second before you put a few bullets in him, and then blowing up the facility anyway like they always do, and then walking away... with Guiliman having absolutely *ZERO* authority in the matter. Cawl ain't that hard to kill, and he ain't getting a free pass for his blatantly heretical experiments. He's a dead little toaster-fucker.

Maybe the hate had something to do with the fact it was Guilliman, the ultramarine primarch whom the Mary Sue hate applies to as much as his chapter, who brought them into the setting, the fact that Cawl could do things so outlandish for the setting (I mean, if Cawl used the emperor's design to upgrade the marines, why not have made them primaris from the beginning?) And the fact that the face of WH40K is no longer the grim and brutal looking firstborn, but the kind of... Almost noble and hopeful Primaris. I am probably only speaking for myself since I have only collected a few minis and just kept up with the lore and played the video games instead.

@memesterjohnson4096

Жыл бұрын

because heavy modifying Geneseed usually goes horriblely wrong and it is mega tech heresy. as for why the company didn't do it well, they hadn't thought of primaris yet. 40k has been around for years not just a few months.

@gustaveardila6286

Жыл бұрын

@@memesterjohnson4096 I guess what I'm trying to say is making superER soldiers is kind of silly and GW should have known that it would go down bad. As for the geneseed argument, yeah, the cursed founding should have made Cawl think twice before tampering with an impossibly complex mixture of warp sorcery combined with technology. But hey, it wouldn't be the first time someone who should be below emps in terms of anything makes up something you'd think big E would have thought of before.

Can I just say how I love your so casual about our opinions? Like I know that sounds weird but in this day and age where everyone has to be dead certain that everyone who has an opinion on stuff they like has to be so extra about it, you’re pretty chill.

badly implemented, rushed lore, I still hate most things about their lore, especially how they can suddenly make a Primaris with a few decades experience more combat capable than firstborn with literal centuries experience. I dont understand why Primaris officers exist at all... they should all be led by firstborn officers with centuries experience who have crossed the rubicon. I dont care at all about the miniature side, I dont play with that, I only care about lore, well written character and good stories... A few of the stories with real violent conflict between the primaris and firstborn are the only primaris stories I can somewhat tolerate, or where the Primaris are clearly the new kid having to prove themselves in a majority firstborn chapter..

Black templars should have killed them all, they were on that track then stopped for some reason and accepted it for plot armor reasons I can feel it

The biggest crime of primaris was no more classic helmets.

Stole this from Reddit: Imagine DC Comics sitting around and trying to decide how to boost comic sales over the next few years. "I know," a writer says, "Let's make Bigger Batman." The market analyst shuffles through some data and says "There may actually be consumer interest in making Batman bigger. The story line does reference him being a peak physical specimen, but he's always drawn the same size as the other male characters. I think the fans would react well to a larger Batman." "No," says the writer. "I don't mean that we should just draw Batman bigger. That would be stupid and I wouldn't be creating anything new. Let's make Bigger Batman, a totally new character." "Um," says the analyst, but the the writer presses hard for what he is calling his creative contribution to the legacy of comics and the director likes the projection for how new characters boost sales so in the next series, they introduce Bigger Batman. It turns out that Bruce Wayne has a brother. Chad Wayne is bigger and stronger and faster and better looking than Bruce. He was separated at birth through a hospital mix up and his adopted parents were killed in a mugging gone wrong in a way that was just like Bruce's story but more tragic. He took over the adopted family's business empire that was just like Bruce's but bigger and now he has come to Gotham in its hour of need to do Bruce's job but better. He has the Bigger Batmobile and Bigger Batarangs and pretty soon he has the Bigger Batsignal. It's actually hard to tell the Batsignal from the Bigger Batsignal if they aren't both on together since they are exactly the same except in proportion, but the bigger engine in the Bigger Batmobile gets Bigger Batman to the scene first unless he's solving a bigger crime somewhere else in which case people look mildly disappointed when they realize that it's just Batman that has arrived and often choose to wait for his brother. "So, thanks Batman. We really appreciate you showing up to save us from this bank robbery, but we'll be fine, really, and Bigger Batman should be along at any minute." Pretty soon, Bruce Wayne stops putting on the Batsuit at all which is just as well because the Batsignal (now known as the Little Batsignal) has been put in storage. Bruce develops a drinking problem and eventually people in Gotham forget that Little Batman was ever a thing. In the story the writer has created, all of this makes perfect sense. Commissioner Gordon likes Bigger Batman because he's better at solving crime. The citizens of Gotham like Bigger Batman because he makes them safer. Vicki Vale likes Bigger Batman because he's better looking and has a bigger dick. As a comic fan, I fucking hate Bigger Batman, and not for any kind of internal inconsistency with the story. I hate Bigger Batman because with a few words- with nothing more than a few exclamation points, really- the writer has made a beloved character with decades of rich backstory into the smaller and less impressive version of itself. Bigger Batman doesn't add anything positive to the story unless you are actually going for satire, but he does fuck up the existing character of Batman. That's why I hate the Primaris marines.

I like that the Primaris are True scale, and some of the kits are exceptionally good, such as the named character resculpts, the bladeguard and the new Black Templars. What I DON'T like about them are where they deviate from the designs of the original kits they're meant to be replacing. The Redemptor dread -while a really cool model- doesn't have the same design as the box naught. The Repulsor looks NOTHING like the Land Raider and should've been treaded instead of hovering. Everything in the Primaris line looks too modern for what are effectively meant to be warrior-monks and neo-medieval knights. Personally I very much dislike the default primaris helmets and preffer the grimace of the firstborn ones to such a degree that I replace them any chance I get. I'm a firm believer in the original boxy aesthetic for the marines and I won't accept any major deviations from it. Hell, I'm someone who joined in 8th just as the Primaris were released and I'm still against them!

I got into Warhammer after the Primaris drop, so I don’t have negative opinions about them. I’m a lore guy, and the lore consequences and drama and opinions that came from it is really interesting to me.

@TEPMARMY

Жыл бұрын

But didn't the consequences just feel a little limited? I'm not versed in all the lore but it always felt like the consequences of primaris were a little small. Yes some chapter's like the black templars killed some of their primaris but at the end of the day the chapters adopted them. We never saw chapters going the full nine yards, we never chapters outright disavowing them, or declaring them heterical and going rogue or rebelling as a result (as far as I'm aware that is) With the imperium spilt it would've been interesting if there consequences were a bit more impactful you know

@clinch4402

Жыл бұрын

That makes no sense. As a lore guy surely you can see how their sudden appearance out of nowhere was incredibly hamfisted and purely for sales... and as the other commenter pointed out, any possible positive for such a shoddy bit of lore was cut short without any sort of expansion. You have one "rogue" black templar chapter getting rid of their primaris buried in a paragraph of a white dwarf somewhere. That's about it.

@doom1609

Жыл бұрын

@@TEPMARMY I totally agree that their impact should’ve been a bigger in the setting as a whole. I would hope that they fill that in as new lore gets published.

@doom1609

Жыл бұрын

@@clinch4402 Oh yeah, I totally see how it was majorly (and probably only) financial decision. What I’m talking about is that it’s fun to see everyone else in the setting, the ones who care anyway, react to them and give their opinions about them. Both on the loyalist and traitor sides. And as I just pointed out for the previous commenter, I hope that their impact on the setting gets fleshed out more in the near future.

@TheExostranger.

Жыл бұрын

⁠​⁠@@clinch4402that wasn’t in a buried white dwarf paragraph, there’s literally a whole book around that

Since warhammer has no canonical lore, primaris are for chaos only.

how to fix primaris: 1. Make them brick shaped like the first born, space marines are wide asf. 2. Retcon: all primaris were recruited and trained by the existing chapters, no deus ex-machina vault on Mars to save the day.

So the problem isn’t so much the lore, but the miniature enthusiast side? It’s always a balance of profit and appealing the consumer base, can’t please everyone

The only thing about primaris I was initially iffy on was the helmet because I love my beakies and Aquila pattern. But now I love them and they are my go to space marine design.

@EddyOfTheMaelstrom

Жыл бұрын

Put beaky helmets on primaris bodies. It looks great.

@brok56

Жыл бұрын

I prefer The big funny screaming faces on The aquilan pattern.

@_NutcasE_

Жыл бұрын

I always loved Mark IV Maximus armor and Mark 10 Is Maximus enhanced.

@unclesamlore

Жыл бұрын

@@_NutcasE_ idk some mk 4 helmets are cooler than others. The one in space marine is awesome, but like 4 mouth slits vs 6

The one thing I hate about primaris is that they are just squads of just dudes with only plasma or only bolters or only meltas, I wish there where just like primaris tactical squads and that type of stuff

Hi Arthur, how goes it? great videos and in depth knowledge of the lore. I have tried my hand at a few black library books mainly ‘Legion’ and the Horus Hersey I believe plus painting a marine platoon ultra marine with the help of my local store, my brother was into this too. It is fascinating how the lore seems interwoven with historical stories of the past with names such as Baal and Horus to the 40k lore fiction and future and that even adults engage with the brand but I also feel sometimes painting the models they seem a bit overpriced, not sure what other people think of this but I do window shop when I walk past my local store too 😆 Take care, battle safe and have fun brethren

I find it interesting that tons of characters in the setting had the same reaction to Primaris as the angry fans (calling it heresy to improve upon the Emperor's design) BUT they also recognise that they aren't doing too hot and don't really have a choice. They DID need reinforcements.

I don’t actually have any hate towards the primaris marines. I actually like them quite a bit.

The main problem was introducing them as something different. Had they just said, “these are the new sculpts, they’re bigger now” nobody would have cared.

I mean... I like having new things to paint, what can I say

Personally, I liked how the Space marines units were before the introduction of the primaris: the tactical squads as the core, devastators for heavy weapons, assaults squads for closeups. Only a few more special units. Also, I liked the fluff for scouts being only partially marines. The primaris brought a lot of new units and broke that sense of a space marines being super flexible, and remind me more of how eldars use hyper specialized units. Also, I hate how primaris grav vehicules look, grav vehicules give the impresion of being fast but fragile, which has sense for a land Speeder or even some Tau or Eldar vehicules. But a grav Land Raider? And the primaris jump packs are so lame compared to FB. I dunno, it doesn't have the feeling. + Of course the fear of making all my minis useless

40K is a weird mixed bag, because inherently it’s a lot more of a sandbox setting then a continuing story, and it had been that way for an absurd amount of time before the Gathering Storm. I love when Games Workshop does push a narrative forward, especially the setting white one. The first couple editions of Age of Sigmar did that constantly and was great to watch! But I think you nailed the issue on the head when you talked about people being upset at the models that they paid not an insignificant amount of money for, and put a not an insignificant amount of time into painting and playing with into, being made completely obsolete, or even illegal to play a game. (RIP Night Lords Jump Lords and my friends with brand new Heresy dreads, we hardly knew ye 😅)

Eldar players are just waiting for our range to be finished with being updated. So far it's been really well done.

Here’s a comment to help algorithms. I literally laughed out loud at the “unaliveanator 5000”, and totally agree with you on the scout front.

well some of this aged like milk. GW just announced they're discontinuing a bunch of the Firstborn kits, some are getting their rules removed from the main game and put into Warhammer Legends, which is fine if you're a casual player but if you go to any kind of organized event you're likely to not be allowed to use your older units. some of them have newer Primaris units they can be proxied as (Bikers = Outriders for example) but some of them don't have any analogues, like the Land Speeder Storm or Ironclad Dreadnaught. also yes, bringing in new people is what keeps hobbies alive but we also have to be careful about what sort of people we bring in, because trying too hard to get broad marketing appeal very often too heavily dilutes what originally made the IP great, I don't want to lose out on what made 40k 40k because GW wants to be Marvel (not saying GW currently wants to be Marvel but that a desire for mainstream appeal leads to that, just look at what's going on with WotC and Magic and D&D, they've pissed off their core customer base pretty bad)

@brokenhalo2001

11 ай бұрын

Funny you should say they want to be marvel coz thats actually what they said in a previous investors report a few years back. They want to be a house hold brand like marvel.

I have my issues with primaris. Let me preface this with the fact that I was introduced to 40K in 8th, my first games used missions from Tooth and Claw using space wolf intercessors. I had fun! I liked the space marines, because I only knew them as primaris. I adored their aesthetic, if they were a bit vanilla. I got into orks, and my father grew his space wolves. But then I saw forgeworld - and oh how pretty the firstborn there were! They were colorful, they had flavorful bits on them, every single part of them had a story behind them! And I realized just how much primaris just… don’t have anything to them. They’re vanilla, and while vanilla is a fine flavor, they missed out on some of the cooler things you could do with modeling. (This was improved with the addition of the Indomitus box, but the issue still remains, and only a few generic primaris models actually have any flavor. In fact, I think they contrast a bit harshly between pre and post indomitus.) I grew out of favor with primaris. I got into the Horus heresy - and I don’t quite know how to describe it, but it all felt so alive. I have more posing options (because my experience with primaris has been either monopose or having a lack of posing options), and my bits box is overflowing with parts that I have just for playing around with firstborn. Every squad has options! I don’t have to buy a completely different body kit if I want to build some lascannons, I can use the same bodies I have for bolter boys. I think my biggest problem with primaris is my lack of choice. Every kit is a one and done affair, unless I go bits hunting or 3D print stuff (among other things, most of which are 3rd party options). This isn’t to say that primaris *cant* be flavorful, they absolutely can, but it takes so much more effort to do so. I want them to be cool, I really do, but I just don’t feel it. Anyways, Ave Imperator, for Dorn, and for Terra!

When the new marines appeared, all my excitement for the 40K setting died then and there. Period. I straight-up scrapped everything I was working on and moved to historical wargaming. I’d rather not play catch-up and collect something I can actually enjoy without a monopolist bossing me around.

This may have aged poorly due to old marines having been literally replaced by this point.

I started off hating them fearcely. Firstborn was the iconic face during the time and I wasn't ready to just start getting into the hobby only for my beloved marines I played with as a kid in dawn of war get shelved... Over time and many years of maturing they are just now starting to grow on me to at least give them a look. I will say I liked the more modular system of the old marines, I liked the helmets of the old marines. I liked the Bolters of the old marines, and I still do. But I am willing to try to work with primaris now.

@venerablebrothergoriate5844

Жыл бұрын

I honestly quite like the Primaris bolters. All of them look pretty cool to me. The longer barrels look like they’d be better for limiting recoil over sustained bursts of fire. And the box mags that autobolters use are a nice touch in my eyes. The reason I hated them was of course, their helmets, which take everything good and cool about the Maximus helmet and fuck it six ways from Sunday. That, and the fact that they had seemed to have discarded Terminator armor in favor of those ugly ass Aggressor suits. But now that 10 edition has come around, Terminator armor is back, and looking better than ever. It never made sense to me why primaris couldn’t wear it before, as terminator armor does have to be resized and refit for every new Astartes that receives a suit. I was also annoyed that when they first came out, it seemed like primaris were coming in only to REPLACE the firstborn. I didn’t realize that firstborn could become primaris. I thought at first that it was an immense indignity to the firstborn who had fought in defense of the Imperium for over 10,000 years. But now that a lot more firstborn are crossing the rubicon, I realize it’s like an upgrade for existing firstborn, and I kinda like that. The galaxy has, after all, become a much harsher and more dangerous place. It makes sense that more and more firstborn would be crossing the rubicon to prepare themselves for the increased threat level. The helmets got to go, though. I will maintain that. Bring back the Heresy style with the big heavy rebreather, bring back the Aquila with its iconic vox grill.

@The_Deliverer

Жыл бұрын

@@venerablebrothergoriate5844 the carbine is the new boltgun that i like the most, i do not like the design of the bolt rifle

@venerablebrothergoriate5844

Жыл бұрын

@@The_Deliverer the carbine is kinda cool, but seeing a foregrip on a boltgun is just… kinda weird to me. I don’t know why. I guess Space Marines are the types of dudes that don’t seem like they’d need foregrips to me. Seeing a Phobos armored marine with one? Yeah, that makes more sense. The bolt carbine is supposed to have a higher rate of fire, and with Phobos being lighter armor, it makes sense to me that they’d need a little more to help mitigate recoil. But those heavy bolt rifles on the Heavy Intercessors, those things look badass, you gotta admit. It looks like someone tried to make a bolter LMG, rather than just going whole-hog and giving them a heavy bolter.

@The_Deliverer

Жыл бұрын

@@venerablebrothergoriate5844 yeah the foregrip is kinda goofy i didn't like that too, but there still the vanguard infiltrator used that not using foregrip and i quite happy with that

@The_Deliverer

Жыл бұрын

@@venerablebrothergoriate5844 i think gw tried to put variety on the helmet. Seeing the beakies on raven guard and the new primaris sternguard using mk 7 helmet is looks cool

Iirc there a whole story about Black Templars saying “Screw You” to the new Primaris marines and killing them all, plus the Custodes who brought them. Which the latter took exception to and shattered the crusade before dying.

An interesting topic for discussion is the existence of a large group of people who hate the Heresy Horus series. And I totally understand. Prior to this series, the Emperor and his Primarchs were mythical creatures, a memory of humanity's better times. And the Horus Heresy, whether they wanted it or not, turned these characters into actors of a family soap opera, and it was pretty much the same under the Emperor like in modern 40k times

@leadpaintchips9461

Жыл бұрын

I'm one of those people who disliked when they pulled the curtain back on the Heresy. Having all of it be myth, legend, and only told through _very_ unreliable narrators was fun. Having the revisions as to who got stabbed protecting the Emperor during the fight with Horus actually be canon because in lore there's Inquisitonal factions at odds with each other (one is about finding and recording the truth, one is about obfuscating the truth) and the only other accounts are dead, MiA, or fallen to Chaos.

@DaKdawg

Жыл бұрын

I low key was like "I'm just going to buy Horus heresy stuff and keep my battle force first born". Man...that didn't age well. At the very least I didn't buy into Horus Heresy at all at this point. Dodging bullets boys, stay serpentine.

@joesheridan9451

11 ай бұрын

It's a bit of a double-edged sword. I think the human appetite for more and curiosity means it was always inevitable that the primarchs would be explored further... Not to mention the money they bring. But the long-dead mythical legends of the primarchs and the emperor, when he wasn't a vegetable, did make the setting so damn cool and feel so unique, dark and deep... Maybe even believable dare I say. And the fact that now the internet is full of clips with some dork explaining Perturabo's favourite breakfast cereal etc definitely means something has been lost.

1.) This video has the best description of Belasarius Cawl I've ever heard. 2.) As some who does not play on table top (only killteam), I HATED primaris when they were released. I still don't really like their aesthetic personally. I think Mark X looks too new and shiny and I miss the old helmet grill, which is why my intercessors almost never wear Mark X helmets. Really digging into their lore and how the primaris marines react to one another and to the old squat marines really made me warm up to them. The fact that they've just been in stasis for thousands of years, means that while they have zero battlefield experience, they still have the great crusade era hopefulness that hasn't been beaten out of them through centuries of constant war. War of Secrets and The Great Work were great books to see that. I have definitely warmed up to them. I could see having a bigger problem if I was stuck with an obsolete army on tabletop. I think my only real issue now is that I wish there was more variety with the models.

A friend of mine told me why he wasn't on board with the Primaris, he said cause it wrecked at the start some of the cannon lore. Like originally fixing the gene mutations of the founding chapters. That would mean no more blood angels falling to the red thirst, or space wolves turning into dogs. It got retconned he said. Treat this as a 3rd hand account, I know next to dick about the original Primaris lore. I look forward to your channel videos, you met the niche of being chill and brief about things. Question. If I scoop up someone's manlet marines can I use them as Votan?

I'd like the Primaris more if they had the traditional "Angry Tahu" helmet.

I started with primaris so I'm biased but i love them I just wish they would come out with better cosmetics like capes and helmets

@venerablebrothergoriate5844

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I really don’t like the primaris helmets. The eradicator helmet is kinda cool, and I do kinda like inceptor helmet that looks like a hybrid of a Russian maska helmet and a welder’s face shield, but other than that, primaris helmets suck. The standard primaris helmet takes everything cool about the maximus helmet and ruins it, in my opinion.

@Itjustdavid

Жыл бұрын

@@venerablebrothergoriate5844 agreed that's why I order couple dozen vitrix guard helmets for my marines

@venerablebrothergoriate5844

Жыл бұрын

@@Itjustdavid honestly if I collected miniatures I’d be sticking Heresy pattern helmets on all my primaris. I like that heavy rebreather look mounted around the iconic vox grill. Plus the studs are kinda cool too. But I don’t really have much room to talk, I just draw space marines, I don’t collect them.

I used to like Primaris for the possible Roboute Heresy that was brewing, Firstborn being phased and all. Then the Rubicon was revealed, meaning everyone gets to be a Primaris and dont give me that shit about high mortality rates on the procedure. As if GW was going to kill any important character in a botched surgery attempt. There you go for that potential plot, everyone BUT the black templars love Primaris, my primarch daddy likes primaris, my grandma dreadnoght loves them, my apothecary uncle splooges over the prospect of fiddling with their gene spunk. *I wanna be a primaris when I grow up* small firstborn toddlers say at the prospect of any character development. Every single relevant character that was ever alive in the current setting is or is going to be primaris, remember Calgar who lost all his fucking limbs and was on the verge of mega unalive? Yeah no dreadnoght for him, just graft a new set of balls and give him a dick pump until he grows 4 inches and voila Primaris Calgar, now more tech priest than space marine but also primaris. Man fuck this, lets just open up all the canned space marines and give them the Calgaris Proceedure.

@Ahriman_362

Жыл бұрын

I really hoped for a plot twist. Like dark angels for example why would they let brand new baby primaris into their inner circle... come on. Fallen and all that. I get that chapters like iron hands would love them since they're basically upgrades but chapters like black templars or some successors shouldn't be cool with it. I totally expected something to happen

I tried to play 25 years ago and recently purchased 1 primaris intercessor and I want to raptor them and idk what this first born drama is. I like the primaris cus it's bigger and easier to paint and I wish they would just scale everything that size . If I begin trying to play can I just play primaris or are they all true scale like primaris are now or they going to true scale everything or should I just play another army idk what's happening

I'm not into tabletop yet, i really only dived into the lore in the last two years. Someone explained it as "Cawl took the recipe for a Space Marine, and let it bake in the oven for a couple minutes extra". I need to read the books instead of picking up so much from the memes and lore channels. Then again, the setting is so grand and i don't even know what "first" book to start from anyway. I'm just happy to be here.

yeah okay I get the message, I'm unsubbing. Like when this is the sort of thing you ask and everyone is like bro you're right they're great, you've gone past the event horizon. They're literally space marine space marines. And for a serious answer - they're far too pure and innocent and they're made with far less of the 'problematic' elements of the Imperium being involved. Meaning they're increasingly easier to turn into unambigous goodie two shoes protagonists of the setting. And I'm just tired to death of that. When we have space marine space marines and everyone's like bro they're great, it's just gone too far

@TheBoneZone40k

Жыл бұрын

:(

@cncmne7404

Жыл бұрын

Goodbye

@NuwandaLunaDragon

Жыл бұрын

"to turn into unambiguous goodie two shoes protagonist" but that hasn't happened, it's literally all in your head

Now it might be because i have yet to start my addiction to 40k minis, but I actually like the Primaris! Their armor looks great and the body proportions are a lot better than the firstborn, even if the FB have the advantage of having cooler helmets.

Watch out for majorkill you almost have the exact same gineric title for a video but with a extra question mark.

My problem with primaris is less with the lore and more with design and how they’re starting to phase out firstborn models with primaris replacements. First, primaris have little weapon squad level weapon options, what I mean is that with tactical, assault, sternguard, vanguard and devastator squads, you have the option to have just anti-infantry weapons or have a few anti-vehicle, or in the case of the latter 3, you can have them all equip anti-vehicle weapons, while the primaris have no such option. Second, they have fewer customization options, this is most apparent in the space marine commander kit when you compare it to the monopose primaris character models. Even in the tactical squad you had the previous weapon customization as well as beakie heads, a gorget for the sergeant, different torso options, and the mk 7 heads even had a bit of variation. Finally, the primaris line effectively led to the end of the box dreadnought and the firstborn sternguard kit. Those are my reasons why I dislike the primaris marines even though I got into 40k during 8th edition.

I love primaris marines. They look sick, and the dichotomy in the lore between the experienced badass veteran vs the newbie rookie mistake badass is a really good story angle.

Not all change is good. The Primaris Marines was a bad change, full stop. It wasn't a needed change or a warranted change. It especially hurts as a Blood Angel fan considering 90% of them were killed off. There is NO Blood Angel old guard left past a few individuals like Gabriel Seth. If you want to run Blood Angels, you are FORCED to run Primaris if you want to be accurate. I don't like the aesthetic of the Primaris, and I am entirely convinced G.W. will completely phase out the Firstborn... They've already done half of the work for it.

@brokenhalo2001

11 ай бұрын

ah shiiiiit i had never thought of that. Ive not played table top since 3rd/4th edition but always love the books and the few good 40k games we have. But yea dam after the devistation of baal ya right. Gabe Seth was right, Generic Ultramarines with diff paint job. o0o0o0o

@MrPikaGammer

Ай бұрын

@Tigran-Abazyan They are around 90% Primaris...

"No one will see if there is no one left to see." (Sounds of an Eversor screaming madly while turning everyone around him into raspberry pudding in the background)

I feel like if primaris were just a special unit for an army. Like if they were essentially grey knight hell custodes level marines that could have a small spot in a legion due to how long they take to be made could’ve been cool.

If GW said "Hey, we're _finally_ updating the Space Marines line to be true scale. Now they look on tabletop how they're supposed to, and our rules are going to reflect how they're somewhere in between Guardsmen and Custodes." They would've gotten a _lot_ less hate then what they did. Ya, you would've had people complaining, but one of the more common things people were asking for when it comes to Space Marines, for decades, was making the marines true scale compared to Guardsmen. What they did was "Here's a *new* line of superior figures that are The Future. They're better at nearly everything then what has already existed, them coming in marks us 'progressing' the setting, and we're going to be pushing them _really, really hard_ in everything that we do.". They only pivoted after the sheer amount of pushback that they got. I'm not a Space Marine fan. Sisters is my chosen army. I was, to put it politely, annoyed with how they decided to roll out Primaris.

I only got into 40k because of the Primaris discourse. It made me look at 40k then the heresy dropped and I bought my first minis. I love painting my space men even the firstborn as they have their own goofy charm.

honestly my issue was them slapping counter intuitive lore behind it. Could of literally said the mechanicum "dug up some STC's on some planet" then dropped the new armor as well as just making the new scale standard.

@randomcenturion7264

2 ай бұрын

Honestly that would feel like less of an asspull. Instead of a couple million frozen marines, the AdMech decide shit is desperate enough to start sharing some STC's they had been holding out on because it pays to have a bargaining chip.

So how many OG Marine models got shoved in to legends so far?

As a person who started this addiction in 3rd edition the dissonance was that Crawl managed to do something that the Emperor did not and some how did it in secret. I understand that as a company who works in the real world change is good but the way it was introduced when it was introduced and what was introduced kinda tripped my flags because of fantasy and the bad choices made by other big game companies at that time, If your going to jazz up a model line Orks or Eldar getting better units and models was more my speed but no crying over things we can't change the new units look cool and they did as intended but there is a reason that I like Horus Heresy more than contemporary 40K these days .

Probably because the vocal people who hate primaris marines are fans who have got invested enough in the hobby to start complaining. They are the combination of GW decisions that get older fans groaning: More Space marines; Ugh More Ultramarines; Gods no it's like Matt's back More Super Duper Space Marines; weren't grey knights and centurions enough? More massive retcons; please let us stop compressing the setting into just a few characters and places, the galaxy is massive Yet again other factions getting the stick; Psychic awakening was a terribly written mess and I have yet to meet a single person who defends it And worst of all, yet more abandonment of one of the core themes of the setting; tech is old and it's in decline, we are at the end of the timeline and it's been going down hill for a long time Primaris marines came out at a bad time for the fandom, as a combination of things that were guaranteed to ruffle some feathers, and GW just leant into that instead of assuaging fears or placating... pretty much everyone who didn't want to start buying brand-new space marine sets. It's a little like how one of the game's oldest rivals, Battletech, couldn't be happy with their brand and identity of giant stompy robots playing war in future space Europe, so they had to keep adding new stuff that was not what people signed on for, splitting their fan base again and again till the original company went bankrupt.

Ngl i used to HATE primaris, but as the years have gone by theyve warmed on me ngl.

I’m still somewhat new. But I love the aspects of space marine squads. And the primaris have those heavy plasma rifle squads that are so cool

I like the primaris lore. I'd love to see some primaris chaos Marines. Like some black legion apothecaries figure out the gene code and decide to make a hoard of Worldeater Primaris Berserkers.

@cncmne7404

Жыл бұрын

Nah , primaris models should stay loyalist only. Chaos Marines are already supped up on Chaos roids to a Primaris level that giving them Primaris marines would be redundant and pointless.

@imjustsam1745

Жыл бұрын

I'd like to see primaris Grey Knights. I just like the look. I'm painter not a player. I don't care about the rules. I like it when they change though, commissions.

@Sephiroth36977

Жыл бұрын

Somebody told me they could make Primaris Loyalist of all 20 legions (redacted 2nd and 11th). If that is true, I want to see World Eater Chaos vs War Hound Primaris.

@cncmne7404

Жыл бұрын

@@Sephiroth36977 Now that would be awesome

@Sephiroth36977

Жыл бұрын

@Nicholas Gucwa *BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!* *SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!*

Primaris are too uniform and lack customisation options, too many units are just the same guys with different guns or slightly different armour. Phobos and Gravis armour are just flat out ugly. Also MKIV helmets are worse then MKVII helmets. If they'd just made new Tactical, Assault etc squads in the new scale with a few new units, I'd be fine with them. As it is, I'm just not into them.

I personally don’t particularly like the look of primaris, the firstborn literally define the look of the setting and for me it’s infinitely more appealing.

It was never supposed to be a progressing story. It was supposed to be a sandbox for your toy soldiers to play in.

They should give the primaris a wider range of helmets. I also think it'd be nice if there were true scale firstborn

I like the Primaris marine, aesthetically. In terms of the GW release schedule I sort of loathe them because there are just so many. So many armies have models that are older than like half of the player base. If they dialed it back a bit and made the game as a whole better, instead of making a single faction look better, I'd appreciate them a lot more.

They couldn't just update the models?

I'd like to see what you do for space marine heroes boxes

Frankly I actually like the idea of the Primaris. It makes sense there would be some form of back up plan from Gulliman, kinda poetic in a way compared to the emperor. Besides, rather prefer the ascetics of their armor, compared to the older marines.

Your GW store credit has been sent to your account. Personally I don't care about primaris but I feel it was ploy for them to milk marine players by overhauling the faction. Looking at how they identify Marines in 10th edition it shows they are walking back a lot of primaris and first born differences.

Started with Primaris… bought some squat ones… thank you for the Primaris.

The biggest issue with PM’s the old dudes who are made their old stuff as obsolete as they are. Irrelevant works too. I’m 25 I don’t get a say in what’s hip anymore as once you hit 25 you are an adult who should be getting a house payment underway

I've heard Guilliman be called all sorts of names, but Bobby G. That's not only brilliant and hilarious, but also my new go to name for him.

Cawl; "I (kinda) fixed the geneseed flaw!" Gabriel Seth; "Put it back!"

"They're like the super-soldiers, but even MORE superer." Honestly it just sounds like something a kid on a play ground would think of to one-up his friend.

Corpoganda like this should be paid, not volunteered like this

I feel like I should do my historical take here, since everyone else is. I got into 40K and WHFB at the release of 40K 3rd back in the 90s. I grew up mostly poor, so I never had a lot of models and my friends and I (I shit you not) played using paper and pencil, drawing units as they moved around like an old-style Battle Report. Although I eventually had my 2000pts of Marines and Bretonnians, I got more into the specialist range as Inquisitor and Battlefleet Gothic dropped, so when corporate dictated that only games sold in store were to be played in store, I stepped away and, over time, sold off my minis and books. I stepped back in just after AoS happened, by complete coincidence, and was sad that none of the armies I'd loved and played in WHFB (Bretonnian mainly, the others I'd toyed with playing or wanted to play filtered back in eventually) were available now, so now I was 40K only, I guess? Got the Dark Vengence box just before 8th dropped... and now Primaris were here... I was put off by them because of the AoS nuking of WHFB and I was concerned that there was about to be a massive reset of the world/game/ranges and, if I sank real money in to get back into it now, everything I bought was going to be obsolete in short order, which I didn't want, so I stepped away again. I came back in relatively recently and have finally admitted to myself that I'm a lore/painting guy only these days and I dig the primaris marines. As you said, the kits look great. Sure, the lore side of their introduction was a bit clunky, and there's the 'Star Wars Extended Universe never killing a named character' problem of everyone CONVENIENTLY surviving the TOTALLY VERY RISKY rubicon surgeries, but it had to be all in, again as you said, to make it work as a business decision. I'm still not convinced that, had AoS been better received at the time, the "Primaris Marines" wouldn't have just been "new kits" instead of a whole lore thing, but how they did it is fine. You can see 10th moving towards a slow phasing out of the old marines, the gradual loss of options for Tactical Squads stands out, and I think the Terminators are a cute middle ground with the armour that can TOTALLY be worn by either marine type, so you don't have to justify why a chapter's 1st company are suddenly 100% primaris.

So I’m new to this fandom, and this hobby… I’m doing space wolves; I bought a couple boxes of Intersessors and assault marines.. and then I bought the new eliminator’s box.. and I’ll admit I was pretty pissed off that my wolves are basically midgets compared to their “younger brothers” I’m gonna try and get over that (I know to be) silly fact.. I’m just overly precious about my armies matching and I don’t like that a couching eliminator is almost taller than a STANDING intersessor Keeping mind that I come form a historical wargaming background; all my contemporary assets are uniform, just having troopers are taller than others is jarring and they don’t look like they’re for the same “list” idk… maybe I’ll get over it, maybe a paint job will work.. we shall see.. (still a noob here mind you)