I think a church named "Mt. Skull Baptist Church" would be pretty awesome

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Indeed!

@QHarefield

5 ай бұрын

Especially for Goths and Viking Christians!

@Perktube1

4 ай бұрын

​@@markwardonwordsalso WH40K fans would like that. 😉

@5150CatLady1

Ай бұрын

@@QHarefield I think Skeletor would be Pastor there, lol !

@AJearth

23 күн бұрын

That would be an awesome name

I think people who get upset about what a place is called in different translations have an unhealthy fixation on tradition. The point is not what the place is called, but that God became man and died on that hill, whether it's called Calvary, Headpan Stow, the Skull, or Golgotha. (By the way, Headpan Stow is an amazing name! I love Old English for it's amazing use of word images. A good Old Englishman or Norsemen would never call a spade a spade when he could call it an Earth Biter!)

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Yes! I agree.

@SherlockGnomes007

Ай бұрын

That's true, but much of our connection to those things is by association with that traditional name. It's hard for many Christians to hear the word "Calvary" and *not* immediately think of Our Lord's sacrifice; that's the point. A literal reading weakens the connection, and, disturbingly, seems to do so deliberately. One can assume it must be either another sacrifice to "diversity" (non-European Christians might have little connection to anything Roman or Latin, or might have a negative historical connection to same), or it must be an attempt to further remove a probably reformed theology from anything with the appearance of Romish stain, because accuracy is maintained with the traditional reading, and there are of course many examples of translators sacrificing literal accuracy for a more artful or impactful reading; we aren't going around taking about the "Holy Breath" on the regular!

@michaelkelleypoetry

Ай бұрын

@@SherlockGnomes007 I would argue that the traditional readings weaken the connection more because they have become so familiar. How many people in churches really think about some of the words they're singing in many of the hymns? It's the same with many Bible verses, John 3:16 one of the more notable.

@SherlockGnomes007

Ай бұрын

@@michaelkelleypoetry That's an interesting way to look at it, and some might find that true. I find John 3:16 and others in KJV to be familiar and poetic, but I also read modern versions and it does help to make the familiar seem "new" again.

@nerdyengineer7943

24 күн бұрын

I love Headpan-Stow! It is incredibly "English".

So, I learned the word “Calvarium” about twenty years ago in Radiology school and use the word on a somewhat routine basis. I actually look inside them for problems almost everyday! And never once that I can remember did I make the connection to the word “Calvary”. Made my day.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Wow! So cool!

@richardusgravis

5 ай бұрын

Same here! I'm a doctor (and actually work for a Bible translation org, though not as a linguist) and I only just thought of the "calvarium" connection as the video started and I was trying to guess where it was going! I'd never realized this. However, I also didn't grow up reading the KJV much, so I didn't notice "Calvary" only appeared in that one verse and not in modern translations. Somehow it feels more ironic since "At Calvary" was one of the first hymns/gospel songs I leaned on piano. I am sick in bed today and really appreciating your videos, brother! Your book is in my to-be-listened-to queue. 😊

I was today days old when I learned that "Cavalry" and "Calvary" are different.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Ha! Love it! I had to stop myself repeatedly to make sure I said the right word!

@hotwax9376

8 ай бұрын

It's a very common mistake.

@pierreabbat6157

8 ай бұрын

There's a phrase in That Hideous Strength where someone mixes them up: "as great an anachronism as to trust to Calvary for salvation in modern warfare" (going by memory).

@user-bd2uw1xu9s

5 ай бұрын

Detroit for few years had Calvary Ave/St in the Fort Wayne area. Streets have military names. Happily I photographed before it was corrected to Cavalry. Allen Park had its own gem, "Ilegal to use shopping center to avoid traffic control devises."

@Packhorse-bh8qn

18 күн бұрын

If I'm ever surrounded by angry Native Americans (did I use the right term?), I sure don't want to see a bunch of skulls riding over the hill to my rescue.

The Coptic Orthodox Church uses the word Golgotha (Ⲅⲟⲗⲅⲟⲑⲁ) in it's hymnology. I think it's derived from the Hebrew word (גולגולת), both meaning "skull".

Now I've got 🎶 Burdens Are Lifted at Headpan Stow 🎶 stuck in my head! Seriously though, another great video.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Love that!

@hotwax9376

8 ай бұрын

Me too! A much better name IMO than either Calvary or Golgotha.

Britannica says: Nothing's been removed: it's a switch from the Latin-derived word to the Aramaic.

I wonder whether there might be a "Skull Mountain Baptist Church" somewhere.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Love it!

Not even the New American Bible and the New Jerusalem Bible--translations by Catholics for Catholics--bother to use Calvary anymore. The practice of swiping words from Latin instead of translating the Greek words with equivalent English words has fallen out of vogue even among the people who once touted the Vulgate as the most authoritative edition of the Bible.

@markwardonwords

9 ай бұрын

An EXCELLENT point I should have made in the video.

@shannonashley7224

9 ай бұрын

κρανίον kranion kran-ee'-on Diminutive of a derivative of the base of a skull (“cranium”): - Calvary, skull. Because of the woke agenda Hits the old Timey songs about the hymns of what Jesus Christ has done on Calvary. If I were Satan, I would wanna take it out of the Bible too

@MAMoreno

9 ай бұрын

@@shannonashley7224 The word "calvary" is simply the Latin word for "skull." So the secret agenda of socially-concerned Millennials is to eliminate random Latin words from the English Bible and to replace them with Germanic words? Why? Are they hoping to reverse the harm that invading foreign armies inflicted on our language? Or is their goal to make the Bible sound less Roman Catholic thanks to their distrust of the abusive tendencies of institutional religion? It just makes no sense whatsoever.

@casey1167

8 ай бұрын

More or less a "love" vs. "charity" issue. But I am sure glad the hymns were written "at Calvary" and not "at The Skull." Question is why the accounts in Matthew, Mark and John used "skull" and Luke used Calvary? And not just the KJB, but going back to Tyndale.

@MAMoreno

8 ай бұрын

@@casey1167 I suspect it's because Luke's Gospel is the only one that doesn't use the word Golgotha. Importing the Latin word Calvary provided Luke's account with a fancy proper name for the place. I'd say Tyndale took it from Wycliffe, but Wycliffe used Calvary in all four Gospels.

It was good to meet you at TGC. I’ve enjoyed your videos and shared your book with some friends who had their kids in a KJV-only Christian school. Keep it up!

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

✔ Likewise!

I appreciate the nerdiness, and the great info! Well done!

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Very interesting. I enjoy your videos and you havest a rather good sense of humor. Thank you!

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

The humor is all camera tricks. ;)

Thanks! Well researched!

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Great video . Also that was a great conference . I was also in attendance. The Church outside confirmed which conference it was .

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

You got it. ;)

As always, a great video. The 1582 Catholic Douay-Rheims English translation uses “Calvarie” and the 1899 American version of the DR uses Calvary. I agree, I get the feeling the Latin name had become the “English word” for this place even before these there English translations.

Brilliant! Thank you, Mark.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

My pleasure!

That was awesome! Thank you, Mark! Another little nugget of knowledge. I’ve never heard a KJVO mention this!

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Thanks again, brother. Good stuff!

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

You bet!

Your wisdom is worth seeking. Thank you.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Glad you think so!

Another informative, biblical and helpful video. Thanks Mark.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

My pleasure!

great vid. thanks

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Glad you liked it!

great explanation!!!!

@markwardonwords

Ай бұрын

Glad you liked it!

Thank you so much I enjoyed listening to what you said. God bless you and your family. Bill. Uk 🙏🙏🙏

@markwardonwords

Ай бұрын

Thanks for listening!

Found this super interesting, great content! 😊 And hey, that looks like the convention center in Indy, my neck of the woods. What conference were you at?

@markwardonwords

7 ай бұрын

TGC!

Thanks for this information it is well done and in a manor that is informative without any animosity. Oh, please keep making videos this way and inform people of what you have learned in your endeavors to understand why the KJV is the way it is.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Many thanks! I needed this encouragement today!

@simplicityinthecomplexity6988

8 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords You are most welcome and I leave you with a passage from both the KJV and the ESV 1 Corinthians 13:13 KJV "And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity." ESV "So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love." I do not see any error in syntax or grammar in any of these sentences. I also know that charity is a synonym of love, and view it as the action of love. So, I see both as correct in form and function, and both as the word of God; what about you?

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

@@simplicityinthecomplexity6988 I've wanted to dig into the use of "charity" in the KJV. My friend Tim Berg has done this. I think terms like that in famous passages like 1 Cor 13 end up acquiring the right meaning over time through reading and preaching. I'm fine with both translations, KJV and ESV.

Thank you!

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

You're welcome!

Great video, thank you! These give confidence in the work of modern translators. The first time a KJB defender raises an objection like this, you feel worried. But after seeing them answered consistently, new objections lose their punch.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Right! Exactly!

Switching to German, this wouldn't be an issue at all because the translation used is 'Schädelstätte', meaning 'Skullplace'. As far as I can tell German translations from Luther onwards haven't used either 'Calvary' or 'Golgotha'. See: there's no-one so blinkered as someone who speaks only English!!

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Right! This is a good point, an excellent one.

@alanhowe1455

8 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords I'm really sorry to say this, but this is specifically a problem with Americans (and some Brits!) who have no knowledge or understanding of languages other than English - which is strange when you consider that the US is a nation of immigrants from all over the world! This is a real cause for concern, I believe.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

@@alanhowe1455 Right! So right!

In Sweden, we use Golgatha as the proper name, though we spell it Golgata. So we avoid this confusion!

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Wow! Interesting!

Thank you

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

You're welcome!

Props for the Cavalry reference

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Lol

In the Russian Synodal Bible (the standard bible for Orthodox and Protestant alike in Russia, translated into a pretty understandable Russian despite being of 1860 or 70 something), uses a term translated literally as "place called "of the Skull"" for Calvary/Golgotha

When you mentioned the skull, I immediately thought of Golgotha, and looking it up, I found that it was another name for the same place.

@johnsavard7583

27 күн бұрын

And that proper name, apparently more correct, is used in Matthew 27:33, Mark 15:22, and John 19:17. The Douay-Rheims version of the Bible actually uses Calvary in addition to Golgotha in Matthew 27:33, replacing "the place of the skull"!

Wow .... cavalry ...Calvary never got those confused, but words can be confusing at times! 🤥

I was wondering where the word Calvary came from. Growing up in Norway, the place where Jesus was crucified was known as Golgotha, the place of the skull. The take-away should be to do some research before jumping to conclusions that the newer translations are sabotaging God’s Word.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Right!

@hotwax9376

8 ай бұрын

I always knew it was from Latin because skull in Spanish is "calaveras," and Spanish is a Romance language. Not to mention how much the KJV translators loved inserting Latin into the text.

Quite interesting.

"Calvary Road" was an obscure hymn sung by George B. Shea. The Bristol that i'm familiar with (Pa) is appropriately named 'cause it has the Burlington-Bristol Bridge.

@QHarefield

5 ай бұрын

Do you know the hymn-tune Bryn Calfaria? It took me quite a while to realise what the title meant!

Saw you at the conference and was going to come by and say hi but you looked like you were doing an interview and I didn’t want to be a bother!

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Ah, too bad! Maybe next time!

What is a good resource for finding word origins and what combined words formed them?

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

The OED!

@MAMoreno

8 ай бұрын

A free resource for English words is the Online Etymology Dictionary: www.etymonline.com/

@tracywelch6863

8 ай бұрын

Thanks!!

I looked up the passage in my NIV Thompson Chain 1984 Calvary is translated as Skull. However, Thompson in his reference listed it as Calvary.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

✔

Good linguistic trip there. Well explained.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching.

Is it correct that the kjv use the word Easter in Acts 12:4

@MAMoreno

2 ай бұрын

It reflects an older tradition of using the word "Easter" to refer to the Jewish Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread, not just to the Christian holiday. The KJV wasn't necessarily wrong when it used that word around in 1611 (after it had already been used in earlier translations), but it's not a particularly good gloss for the underlying Greek word today. People don't associate "Easter" with Jewish holidays anymore.

Good job good fellow.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Many thanks!

A cognate word exists in Spanish, "calavera", and still means skull.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Really? Wow!

@Eddievilar

8 ай бұрын

In Portuguese we say ‘ Lugar da CAVEIRA.’

@fnjesusfreak

8 ай бұрын

@@fredthe47th Skulls, yeah.

@fnjesusfreak

8 ай бұрын

@@Eddievilar And "Caveira" is no doubt related to "Calavera", knowing about the relationship between Spanish and Portuguese. (I don't myself speak Portuguese, but I have a friend from Brazil and a close friend from Portugal.)

@mikeymcgee1509

8 ай бұрын

Cool! and makes sense considering Spanish evolved from Latin.

It's a bit like "The Satan" in the OT (not a name) to Satan in the NT (a name).

Interestingly, when I started wondering about this myself, I was able to roughly understand the likely source of "Calvary" through a related French word: "la calvitie," which means "baldness." Thanks for the video!

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Interesting!

There is a beautiful very popular Haitian hymn based on French "Calvaire" - Refrain: Tout gras Bondye te pou granmesi, Jezi te ban mwen tout padon li. Nanm mwen ki te twouble jwenn lavi Sou bwa Kalvè. (At the wood/cross of Calvary) There are modern French and Spanish Bible translations which show the Vulgate influence in this verse as well. Just a small FYI. Thanks again! 😊🙏📖

Interesting fact for the word "Morning Star"/"Lucifer" which is used in most English and German translations: In Zev Porats new book "Unmasking the Chaldean spirit" he shows that the Hebrew doesn't say anything about Lucifer (which is the Latin form of light bringer) in Isaiah 14:12-17 its "helel ben shachar", which best translates to “the shining worship leader, the son of dawn.” Porat, Zev . Unmasking the Chaldean Spirit: A Messianic Rabbi’s Stunning Supernatural Journey to Zion and The Life-Changing Treasures He Uncovered along the Way (English Edition) (S.142). Kindle-Version.

@Metanoia235

8 ай бұрын

(Also in this book are very interesting information about a better location of Golgatha than the traditional suggestions)

I think the word Calvary has become so prevalent in the English-speaking Christian world because it sounds better than all the alternative names. Could you imagine Golgotha Baptist Church?

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

You see, that’s exactly what a Latin speaker of the year 100 would say: who would name their church “Skull Presbyterian”?

@leechjim8023

8 ай бұрын

Golgotha Chapel

Where did Calvary go? I grew up wondering ,where did Calvary even come from? When i was young i always confused calvary with cavalry, from watching old westerns on tv.😊

@markwardonwords

6 ай бұрын

That’s good!

I actually incorrectly thought "Calvary" meant "cross" at one point.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Interesting. A natural mistake.

Mark, why is there a white inverted cross in the room behind you? It's over your left shoulder hanging from the ceiling.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

No idea. I really doubt that’s what it is!

@MAMoreno

8 ай бұрын

Are you talking about the horizontal lights on the far wall? There's a vertical beam in front of them on the corner of the balcony.

"Calvary" is much more singable than "skull place" anyway, so for that reason, I'm glad we have it. 😄

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Ha! Agreed!

@jimyoung9262

8 ай бұрын

And Calvary rhymes with free.

@seekingthekingdomfirst

8 ай бұрын

Lest I forget Gethsemane Lest I forget Thine agony Lest I forget Thy love for me Lead me to the Skull Place rolls right of the tongue :P

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

@@seekingthekingdomfirst Right! ;)

@dawnmichelle4403

8 ай бұрын

@@seekingthekingdomfirst that's hilarious! 😄

In his 1527 New Testament, Tyndale translated Luke 23:33 as Calvary as well.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Right! I mentioned that!

So is this a similar situation to the word "Lucifer," then?

@calebschaaf1555

8 ай бұрын

hahahahaha OK, just heard you address this in the video. :) I should hold my questions until after I've finished it.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

It shows you’re smart!

I won't add any 'spoilers.' Chance are we agree 100% here. Curiously the 1950 NWT has; 'called "the Skull" ' whereas the 2013 just says; 'called skull'.

@markwardonwords

9 ай бұрын

✔

Actually I don't mind removing word Calvary if you use the word "Golgotha." It means the same thing but has a much darker connotation.

Calvary? Golgotha? Ferrar Fenton used "...Calvary (that is Skull-cap)" So Fenton refers to this location with a double noun. But you missed a key writer. Why did the KJV authors use Calvary? Because Tyndall wrote it. . This first time I heard someone say Lucifer, they were talking about their wooden matches. I don't like paper matches, they bend too easily.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

I did mention Tyndale. ;) Fenton did the same thing medieval translators did, I’ve discovered. They said “Calvary, that is, headpan stow.”

Really helpful

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

✔

I'm OK with transliterating it as a proper now. But it should probably be derived from the herbrew, not the Latin. As that would be the sounds used by the locals that named it.

👏

I knew about the Lucifer transliteration. Now I wonder about others in addition to Calvary.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Good question. Will have to think about this. Not sure I know any other examples off the top of my head.

Fun side note: The skull buried there is the skull of Goliath. This is the place where King Daivd buried the head of Goliath!

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

How old is this tradition, I wonder?

@justin_messer

8 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords In Eastern Orthodoxy, skull refers to Adam’s skull. There was a popular tradition that when Adam died he came to be buried in the area where Jesus was crucified. The church fathers saw it fitting that first Adam who lived and died should be buried on the spot where the second Adam should die and live. It’s why if you visit an Eastern Orthodox Church, often times you will see a cross or a crucifix placed atop the skull. It not only represents Christs defeat of death but acts a link to the restoration of Adam.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

@justin_messer aha! Got it! Thank you for this!

In Spanish it's calvario, and it's where we got our word for bald "calvo" meaning your hairless like a skull 😄

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Interesting! I knew "calvario," but not "calvo." Never learned that word.

But...but...but...Calvary rhymes with free and me...and thee...and ho-LY

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Those are indeed benefits for hymn writers!

@MAMoreno

8 ай бұрын

Skull... Dull... Lull... I see some really downbeat hymns on the horizon.

I'm nowhere near being a scholar of any sort so any input from me will be from a "use your common sense" stance. No disrespect to anyone here, that's just how I think. It's strange to me that people have a problem with this, seeing how the other gospels call the exact same place Golgotha. Why no uproar over that? Whether you call it Calvary, Golgotha, the skull, or the hill over yonder where Jesus died for me, it's the same place. And yes, in 51 years living in north east MS, I have heard that. And no, it didn't bother anyone at all.

The Scriptures were written in Hebrew and Greek, and the word Calvary was used when the Scriptures was translated into Latin. Golgotha is the word that should be used, as Calvary is a Latin word for the area, but is an incorrect name for the area. If I start calling Rome by the name Freemont, it doesn't change the correct name.

Ride your horse IN your saddle IN the Calvary

@markwardonwords

6 ай бұрын

Right!

Golgotha The Skull in the Peshitta, ancient aramaic.

It’s also possible Calvary was a proper noun used for the location simply because Latin was commonly used in Christ’s time and would have been used by the Roman soldiers at least.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

But… I tend to think that the Greek New Testament itself would have used a transliteration if that were the case. Like I said, though, toponyms can be difficult.

What is the evidence that this place (whatever you call it) was a hill?

Golgotha sounds cooler.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Ha! Yup.

Me, a person who goes to Church in Latin, primarily reads the Vulgate, and typically only reads Douay when I look for English...found this genuinely interesting. Thank you.

Nicely done. Of course, it should be included that the "place of the skull" or Golgotha comes from its identification as the place where King David buried the skull of Goliath of Gath, as chronicled in 1 Sam. 17:54.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Citation?

@MAMoreno

8 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords Jerusalem Post article on the topic: www.jpost.com/christianworld/article-721179

So we Christians have plucked a single word from an improper translation and used it in songs and church names. Some how, I'm not surprised... LOL

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Not a huge deal; the most important meaning came across. But some meaning was lost.

@markmayes6817

5 ай бұрын

Thanks Mark. My comment was meant to be more tongue in cheek. I stumbled on your awesome interviews with Sean McDowell. It really answered my questions about the various bible versions. Thank you you so very much. ✝ ❤@@markwardonwords

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Oh, got it!

B.V.M. : the new Lucifer ❤

So I am going to disagree with you in a way that will prove your own point. I would agree with you if we were in 1611, but at this point, Calvary has been used for a long period in our tradition, so much so that it has long been a part of the hymnody you discuss, and it does nothing to put the thumb on the interpretive scales (this is why I dislike lucifer in Isaiah 14, there are 3 major interpretations of that passage in Evangelicalism and all are reasonable, but lucifer tends to point towards only 1 of those 3). This is I freely admit an opinion shaped by research on terms related to slavery, and problems with the English terminology, and the way our paradigms impact our semantics. My point is aesthetic, I am not saying the modern translations are wrong or heretical in their translation of this passage. Translation is an art, KJO theories seem to require it to be more like math or science (and then balk when the logical errors are exposed). I can understand why you disagree on this point, and it doesn't really move the needle on my preferred translation for churches, the ESV. Sometimes, it is not a matter of which word is correct, but which is better. The question is, why didn't the KJO gentleman do a little digging on this point? Whatever else is true, he isn't committed to the Berean ethic, believe but study and verify. There is danger in imbuing a an aesthetic preference into a matter of great significance, because it tends to move away from doing the spade work you did, and that trades reasoned faith for fideism.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Totally reasonable, Kevin! Absolutely! This reasoning is why I'm not in any hurry to remove "Calvary" from hymns.

@fnjesusfreak

8 ай бұрын

As a translator, I agree that translation is an art and not a science. A lot of Christians will be like "Be a good little Beroean"...and then when you fail to reach their conclusion, they're like "NOT LIKE THAT!!!"

Considering how much the KJV translators loved Latin, it's hardly surprising they did this. Sometimes in modern translations you will see "Golgotha," which I believe is the Aramaic name. But the idea that the name "Calvary" is an essential part of our faith is nonsense. It's purely a tradition, nothing more, nothing less. That said, I'm disappointed that the name "Headpanstow" didn't survive into Modern English. It's so much more fun to say. What do you say? "Burdens Are Lifted at Headpanstow"?

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Yes! Love it!

@hotwax9376

8 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords What's even more amazing is that "Headpanstow" sounds like an actual place name in England.

@hotwax9376

8 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords Or "Lead Me to Headpanstow." I do have to say, though, that "Lead Me to Calvary" is a great hymn too. "King of my life, I crown Thee now..."

And of course, "calvaria" (pronounce with a v-sound in Ecclesiastical Latin) is nothing special in Latin. You bring up the word "Lucifer," which has a fun liturgical history. In the traditional Easter liturgy of the Western church, Jesus is referred to as the "Morning Star" of resurrection, the Latin word being "Lucifer." Of course, in the hymn (the Exultet) where this is used, it is almost as though the writer realized the possible confusion, so he quickly adds "ille lucifer, inquam, qui nescit occasum," i.e., "that morning star, I add, that knows no setting (or 'fall')." Indeed, if the classic Baptist hymn "Lily of the Valley" were rendered in Latin, congregants might have some trouble singing, "Ille lilium est valis, clarusque lucifer..."

Golgotha is mentioned in the four gospels!

Interesting. Does it even make sense today to have an English place name for place where English is or was not native? The trend seems to be away from this. Turkey is now Türkiye. Kiev, Kyiv. Peking, Beijing. Cologne, Köln. But Den Haag is still called The Hague.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

I’ve seen this, too. I wonder if it’s broad enough to be called a trend? Maybe. Sounds like a great linguistics article for someone to write!

@russell13904

8 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords I suppose it's a bit like tapping a cup of rice on the bench. Each grain is very likely to end up lower down, not higher up, even though the tapping doesn't force it down. I can't see anyone deciding we need to come up with an English name for a place that doesn't currently have one.

So? The KJV is archaic and not the best word for word translation of the Bible.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Yes. But not terrible. Much better than no Bible reading!

JESUS and the PLACE OF THE SKULL - LUKE 23:33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. (King James Version) Luke 23:33 And when they were come to the place which is called Calvary, they crucified him there; and the robbers, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. (Douay-Rheims Bible) Luke 23:33 And when they came to the place called The Skull, there they crucified Him and the criminals, one on the right and the other on the left. (New American Standard 1977) Luke 23:33 Calvary or The Skull? On what hill or mount was Jesus crucified, and why is the place significant as concerns cosmic geography? The answer to the first part of the question is that Jesus was crucified on top "of the place of the skull." Yet in the King James Bible, and other older English translations, as well as the Roman Catholic English translation, the Douay-Rheims, we note that Jesus was crucified on "Calvary." The Greek word for Calvary is 'kranion'. So how did the English translators arrive at using the word Calvary for the Greek word "kranion"? For the answer we need to know that the Bible known as the Latin Vulgate, Jerome's translation of the Greek New Testament (late 4th century) into Latin, translated the Greek word 'kranion' to the Latin word for skull which is 'calvarium'. Both the Greek 'kranion' and the Latin 'calvarium' are defined as the upper domelike portion of the skull without the lower jaw and facial parts.The other three Gospels refer "to the place of the skull" as Golgotha. Golgotha is the Hebrew/Aramaic equivalent of the Greek 'kranion' and the Latin 'calvarium'. (Matthew 27:33; Mark 15:22; John 19:17) Jesus, when it was time for his crucifixion, was taken out to a high peak known as 'the place of the skull' just outside the city walls east of Herod's Temple. According to St. Cyprian, "It is a tradition of the ancients that Adam was buried in this place where Christ was crucified, and that his skull lay here." (Gill commentary @ Biblehub for Luke 23:33) Thus we get 'the place of The Skull'. The First Adam's skull! Mark, love your work. What say you of the above?

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Looks good-just not sure about the very last line.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

And thank you for the kind word!

@ancientfaithtoday5781

8 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords You are welcome Mark. Truly, every Pastor, every follower of Jesus, can benefit from your ministry.

Borrowing from Latin is always safe and doesn't risk mistranslating the word, such as has been frequently done for hilastarion.

IMO, translators should stick with tradition unless they have an overwhelming reason not to. The Bible, of all things, should be as unchanging as possible.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

I totally get this opinion, and I'm glad we have some translations that do that. If I ever get to work on a KJV revision, that would be my goal. But the difficulty (I won't say the devil!) is in the details: what does "possible" mean? And what if revisions that confuse some readers benefit others? I find it useful to regularly read translations that don't stick with tradition-like the NIV. I understand why others balk, but I think they should at least give me liberty to benefit from the NIV (I'm not saying you're one of those people!).

@GerardPerry

8 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords The beauty of the AV is that it doesn't need to be "revised", unlike every other new "standard" translation.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

@@GerardPerry The KJV itself is a revision of the Bishop's Bible. The whole, long opening section of the KJV preface is a rigorous and passionate defense, from the KJV translators, of the need for revisions of Bible translations. Why are you opposed to revision, when language is not a static thing-as the KJV translators well knew!

Why do modern bibles also refer to the special twelve chosen by Jesus, the APOSTLES, and only say 'disciples'. Yes, there were a lot of followers of Jesus who were/are disciples, but these twelve men were "apostles" and they used to be referred as such. Now they are just referred to as disciples. Why!!??

@MAMoreno

8 ай бұрын

Modern translations use "apostles" in the same places where the KJV does. Here's one really quick example: Luke 17.5. KJV: And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith. RSV: The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!” NEB: The apostles said to the Lord, ‘Increase our faith’; NAB: And the apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith.” NASB: The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!” NIV: The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!” NKJV: And the apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith.” NJB: The apostles said to the Lord, 'Increase our faith.' NRSV: The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!” ESV: The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!” NET: The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!” CSB: The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith.” MEV: The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith.” CEB: The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”

@clarkcoleman8143

Ай бұрын

Apostle mean one who is sent. A messenger. That became a common word starting in Acts, as the apostles were sent out with the gospel. Disciple means a student of a teacher, which the Twelve were (along with many others) before the church was established at Pentecost.

The Catholic Church in the US uses the New American Bible, not the vulgate.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

I’m aware. But lines from the Vulgate are still chiseled and painted in cathedrals, and they are still intoned by priests. Am I wrong?

@brackguthrie9470

8 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords For most of us, all prayers and scripture readings are in the vernacular. Some parishes celebrate the mass in Latin (Tridentine), but the readings are in the vernacular. I attend a Cathedral, so The Kyrie is sung in the traditional Greek and The Gloria is sung in the traditional Latin. Additionally, the Agnus Dei is sung in Latin during certain seasons (otherwise in the vernacular). I am not aware of any scripture readings in Latin. If you check out the details of the New American Bible, you will find that it is not based on the Vulgate. It its is a translation in its own right. I love the NAB. It is the translation every Catholic hears at every Mass in the United States. Many "conservative" Catholics prefer the New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

I really appreciate your peaceful and clear reply. I did know these things (minus the singing of the Kyrie in Greek, I admit), and I believe my statement in this video was consistent with this knowledge. Again I ask: am I wrong? Am I missing something?

@brackguthrie9470

8 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords Only that we do not use the Vulgate when proclaiming the scriptures or in the prayers of the Church (in the US). Do you know why translators need to translate place names such as Golgatha from the original language? Why not leave proper names in the original language (transliterated of course)?

@chedelirio6984

2 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords All that is right -- for the Catholic sacred liturgy the readings in the USA are from the NAB or NABRE; it is only in such special occasion ceremonies as the Latin rite is used, that the Vulgate would be the text for those.

Golgotha

Only the TR-Textus Receptus translations uses Calvary in Luke 23:33. The Majority Text and the Critical Text do not.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

This has nothing to do with text, my friend. All texts say the same thing here.

@rodneyjackson6181

8 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords the KJV, NKJV and the Geneva Bible a say Calvary. I looked it up. I said TR translations. I know what Calvary means.

@fnjesusfreak

8 ай бұрын

It's nothing to do with the Textus Receptus. "Calvary" is one of many times the KJV leaves the Greek behind and uses the Latin Vulgate.

@seekingthekingdomfirst

8 ай бұрын

Only some do, not all. Jay P. Green's Interlinear English/Greek uses the TR, and translates it as "Skull", and so does Greens Literal Translation (LITV). However his Modern King James Version translation stays with the KJV tradition and uses "Calvary". The MEV which is TR based and supposedly updates the KJV also says "The Skull". The 2013 Gideon ESV (which is the only ESV to use the TR as its underlying Greek text) uses "Skull". And the ACV which is also TR based uses "Skull". But, the Webster Bible, Third Millennium Bible and 21st Century King James were attempts to update the KJV and use "Calvary". Also, the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible uses "Calvary". Oddly, the Bible in Basic English uses "Golgotha", which doesn't sound like basic English.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

@@seekingthekingdomfirst Excellent comment!

Calvary is the place where Jesus paid the debt for our sins. It is the action of what happened. Just like Baptism isn't immersion. There is more to the meaning than Skull, Immersion, and Lucifer. There is a spiritual application that is obviously gone from the new translations and is lost in your assessment.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

And I say you're wrong, my friend!

Good news, everyone is going to heaven.

@MAMoreno

8 ай бұрын

Agreed. Everyone is going to heaven: "Then I saw a great white throne and the one who sat on it; the earth and the heaven fled from his presence, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, as recorded in the books. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and all were judged according to what they had done" (Rev. 20.11-13 NRSVue). Now, whether they're staying in heaven is another thing entirely. 😉

@move_i_got_this5659

8 ай бұрын

@@MAMoreno 15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15

Small wonder that someone who talks like a San Francisco resident is against the tried-and-true Authorized Version of the Bible. The A.V. has all the words and sentences and paragraphs of the Bible. Most "Modern" versions leave out lots of things. How do you have any subscribers?

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

The KJV is an excellent translation-but if you're going to read it exclusively, you need to understand that it was translated into a form of English no one quite speaks or writes anymore. So there are going to be some places where you think you understand but, because of language change, you're going to miss the intent of the KJV translators. For help discerning when this is the case, I encourage you to check out my "Fifty False Friends in the KJV" series on KZread for help reading the KJV! kzread.info/head/PLq1Aq0ucgkPCtHJ5pwhrU1pjMsUr9F2rc

So you think the Bible shares a common name for Jesus and Satan, Morning Star?

@MAMoreno

6 ай бұрын

The Bible uses "morning star" as a symbolic title for a person with great royal authority. The Babylonian king had that position of power in Isaiah 14.3-23, but he was brought down for his arrogance (cf. Daniel 4.19-37). Jesus, on the other hand, was humble in the incarnation and therefore exalted above all things (cf. Philippians 2.5-11).

I detest videos that are far more lengthy than need be. Presenters like Mark may really enjoy enjoy hearing themselves speak, but their videos are just tedious.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Try double speed-maybe that would get you from “detest” down to “loathe”!

Thank you

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Welcome!