The great thing about the internet is that we can find content like this years after the fact.

I accidentally clicked on this video and I ended up watching the whole thing 😂 The first time I read a readers edition I almost cried. I felt like I was reading the word of God for the first time and it was so beautiful. It’s now my favorite “type” of Bible to read.

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

Amen!

There is much here that is important. I have found since being wounded in combat with a penetrating head wound with the left side wounded (where language functions are located on the brain), I have a harder time reading with a two column bible. This is just one thing I have noticed about Typography in the scriptures. This is the first time I heard anyone bring this up. Thank you.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

I’m really glad to hear from you. I never thought of this possibility.

Mark, holy cow! Can’t believe this is 6 years old; so important to have this understanding. Thanks!!

This deserves so many more views!

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@SherlockGnomes007

11 күн бұрын

It's still reaching people.

One benefit of versification is that you can easily find a verse you wish to highlight.

@markwardonwords

6 ай бұрын

True!

After I listening and studying this video I realized what the problem is when even I read my Bible. As a Sunday school teacher, I find this a problem when using Sunday school material. Typography is important when it comes to the reader engaging the material. I decided to change the book from Young Adult to Adult. When it came to Bible reading and study I saw this in The NIV Bible when it came to teaching Psalms 19. I did not know where verse four ended and where it began because of how the spacing on the page. I want to thank you for bringing this to my attention. This helpful for me as a Sunday school teacher and Seminary student.

@markwardonwords

4 жыл бұрын

So glad to be of service!

I've gotten quite shaken recently switching from an ESV to a NKJV bible while studying Colossians... Not because of the different translation, but because the section headings moved! The text was split up different and it changed the whole floor of thought for me and made me dig in deeper. So, yes, typography communicates!!

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Yup!

@Hospody-Pomylui

2 жыл бұрын

*flow, not floor

@No_auto_toon

Жыл бұрын

@@Hospody-Pomylui I took “floor of thought” to mean “foundation”; I didn’t assume it was a typo.

Have y'all seen the csb? I don't know if they are all this way, but my "He Reads Truth" CSB opened my eyes to this important topic. It is the best typography I've ever seen. It was transformative to my reading. They did not regard page count as more important than the arrangement of the print on the page. FANTASTIC

@markwardonwords

10 ай бұрын

Yes, at the recent Society of Bible Craftsmanship conference, that Bible got top honors.

You didn't deal with the issues of memorising scripture. Difficult enough in one version let alone multiple Bibles. You didn't speak about reading the Bible aloud which is recommended by some. I recently tried reading my NET Bible aloud. It has full notes. Read 7 chapters. The fact that there were extensive notes made absolutely no difference when reading aloud. Although I do confess i would like a copy without notes just for reading. You are right about it being a 1st world problem. The early church grew at a phenomenal rate without a written New Testament and an Old Testament written in Greek I believe. I am very grateful for the Church in America and is interest in the Bible ( I am from Australia). But I suspect things are getting out of hand with the abundance of resources available. We need more action on the things we do already know. It is not that difficult simply to spend more time reading the Bibles we already own. Bless you.

You referenced this video in Bible Study Magazine (Nov / Dec 2021) so I came and watched it, glad I did!

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent! It's the fruit of years of reflection. It was the first, last, and only time I ever got to speak to my beloved church of 18 years. There were so many highly trained men in there that even getting a PhD didn't get you a preaching opportunity. I finally begged the assistant pastor, a key mentor in my life, to give me a special Sunday school slot during the one month where the whole church came together for Sunday school. Now the story is told.

Just watched this fir the second time , great advice Dr Mark Ward .

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Nice to hear that someone else shares my thoughts, and reading experiences of removing chapter and verse numbers, and human subtitles. I’ve created my own readers Bible.

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

I did, too-many years ago!

@richardwalters9249

Жыл бұрын

​@@markwardonwords I’m a computer programmer. Learned LaTeX syntax and created a PDF of the ESV Reader’s Bible. I have very very faint chapter numbers in the margin that are hyperlinked to the index of that book’s chapters. Otherwise, no ver numbers. Paragraph, single column, crème colored background (not pure white) and nice font. That was an excellent presentation Mark. I hope you're able to share this talk from time to time with new audiences.

Reading large sections at a time helps tie things together. You definitely want to finish every story you start.

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Right!

@richardwalters9249

Жыл бұрын

So much agree

Thank you Mark for this

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

You're so welcome! This one was so fun!

What a wonderful study. Thank you!

@markwardonwords

21 күн бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Thanks, Mark for sharing this almost three years ago! I stumbled upon this after watching your promo for your book, "Authorized," that was just released! I am thankful that I did! Both topics are relevant to me. Over the past month or so I have been working on designing a logo for a ministry/business that I am working on with a friend called "Theology For You." Just yesterday I was focusing in on what font to use to communicate the truth of what we would be sharing! Hope to meet someday. Thanks for your service!

@markwardonwords

4 жыл бұрын

Sorry for the super late reply… Just getting into managing KZread comments on a channel I let lay pretty dormant for too long. Thanks for watching. I'd love to meet!

Great video,your comment and interpretation on Psalm 12:6,7 and the paragraph division is a gem in contrast to those who use it in claiming preservation of God's Word in one particular version only compared to modern corrupt versions.This video has been helpful to a plowboy who loved to read God's Word in any version you recommended in your previous videos.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Praise God.

Just re-watched this video tonight. Great video, Mark. It would be nice to have an updated version of this video and what you have learned on this subject since you presented it.

@markwardonwords

Ай бұрын

That’s a really really good idea.

This video checks all my boxes on faith and print graphics. These 2 don’t merge often. Love it.

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

Thank you so much for bringing up Psalm 12:6-7. I have engaged with KJVO brethren many times in the past and this passage seemed to be a pivotal one in regards to their arguments in favour of God preserving the KJV. My copy of the KJV has notes in the margin that clarify what, or rather whom, verse 7 refers to, because this is lost in translation if you only read the verse as it has been translated by the KJV committee.

An excellent presentation Mr Ward, and a revelation to the important discipline of Bible reading. This reveals so much to me that I have never seen before, even after all these years of preaching, and I was stunned when I followed your comments and looked into the book of proverbs and saw, yes, sections! Got bless you.

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

You are very welcome!

Such an excellent video explaining why readers' Bibles are important. Highly recommend. Easy to listen to and watch as well!

@markwardonwords

4 жыл бұрын

Super late reply to a good friend… Talk to you in a few minutes!

Thank you for posting this video. I enjoyed it very much. I wish Crossway would publish a large print version of their readers bible us visually impaired old folks.

@markwardonwords

4 жыл бұрын

Great idea-maybe someday!

Good talk Mark. I have had similar thoughts about verse-by-verse Bibles making each verse a standalone thought. I prefer a single-column paragraph layout. I wish more publishers would offer a reader's edition with a font large enough, 10.5-12 pt, for my aging eyes...

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

I hope they will!

I really enjoyed listening to this ✨

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

I enjoyed making it!

The BibleGateway site also has a system of getting rid of verses and headings. Still divided into chapters.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, it's a great site! I do this in Logos and in the ESV app.

I never even considered the subject, i have mostly used the NKJV. I think it is time to think deeper, which is what you always cause me to do... thank you Mark

@markwardonwords

2 ай бұрын

I love getting this response! A lot of people are this way. It's neat to get to excite people about an aspect of Bible reading they hadn't considered, one that is genuinely useful to them.

Thanks for this!! Great insight for believers and also for language nerds!

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

I really loved doing this talk! I've often wanted to give it in other places… I think far more people need to hear these basic things.

@2Nickcdj

3 жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords I think you are absolutely right. I just watch your documentary “Authorized” and thought it was great. Having studied some of this, I have come to actually appreciate the King James more than I once did, while also recognizing that most people benefit greatly from modern translations. Thanks again!!

Wow, Just yesterday I received NIV Sola Srriptura. I love reading from it.

@markwardonwords

4 жыл бұрын

It's so good!

I love my NKJV reader's edition. I also love my NKJV Classic VBV Center column. They're polar opposites and I love them for their opposite properties. And with my reading Bible... I have the most excellent dramatized NKJV audio app that adds another dimension by different people voicing characters in narratives and emotional prayer like reading of the Psalms.

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

I am currently listening to that very audio Bible. I’m in the prophets. It’s well done.

Good talk! You brought up some great points. As I see it, VBV has its advantages for sermon/lesson prep but it does mislead the average reader. I have been a proponent of the paragraph format since I gave up my KJV for a copy of a paragraph format Bible in the 1970's. I think it was either 'The Way" Living Bible or the "Good News Bible" - I don't recall. I also firmly believe that the font type helps the reader to engage with the text. For me, the more modern and clear the typeface, the more likely I am to read for extended periods of time. Size of the fone probably plays a part as well now that I am older. Anyway, thanks again!!

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed! Good stuff!

Great points! I have evolved in my preference of Bible typography. Here are my stages: 1. Ignorance: I had not idea how typography affected my reading habits. I started with the NIV so the typography was pretty modern to begin with. I wasn't much of a serious or regular reader during this time. 2. Study Note Mayhem: When I became a Christian, I wanted to learn everything about the history and biblical doctrines, so I looked for the best study Bibles with crazy amounts of notes. This naturally resulted in having small and cluttered fonts (riddled with footnote markers) and I ended up reading the notes more than the Bible text itself. I chose study Bibles based on the study note content so the typography was low priority (some of them were awful). 3. Organic Minimalism: When I found out that no study Bible was perfect and that I should focus more on the Bible text itself, I went the route of what you're describing in this video. I wanted an organic text that didn't separate verses into separate paragraphs. I wanted a minimalist text, which allowed for clarity and larger fonts. My favourite Bible during this time was the Cambridge Clarion. I thought I found the holy grail. But then I evolved some more.... 4. Full Circle: It's strange, but I now find that I need a Bible that separates verses into paragraphs with copious amounts of headings. My evolution to this stage has to do with my evolving purpose in Bible-reading over the years. In stage 2, I had no idea what I was reading so I needed study helps for every single verse, even if it sacrificed readability of the Bible text itself. In stage 3, I was ready to focus on the Bible text itself by being a "reader" of the text rather than a "referencer". But in stage 4, I found myself reading for a different purpose. I am now teaching a bunch of young people who are constantly asking me questions about the Bible on the spot. I need to be a human Bible encyclopedia for these young people. So when I read on my own time, I am always thinking about equipping my mind with where the passages are in the Bible and their related passages. And I find that a verse-by-verse format with good cross-references at the end of the verse (rather than far away in the margins or footer), with copious amounts of headings for easy-identification of the context, really helps in my reading for my present purpose. It would be healthy for me to read the Clarion from time to time to approach the text "afresh" from time to time, and I still consult study Bibles. So the previous stages never go away completely. I just go to them less. This is in no way a criticism of your point. Typography definitely matters. And most people never make it from stage 1 or stage 2. I was so happy when Cambridge released the Clarion that I used it as the ring-bearer Bible for my wedding! So the minimalist reader-friendly typography has a special place in my heart and it was pivotal to cementing my holistic understanding of the Bible.

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

I'm not dissimilar; step 4 just kind of came earlier-and I use digital tools for that purpose. If I didn't have Logos, I think I'd do exactly what you're doing. Of course, I'd do most of my reading from an organic minimalist edition but all my teaching from a NET Bible or ESV Study Bible. I just have those notes and more on my laptop in Logos. And I typically teach Sunday school from an open laptop.

@masaomorinaga6412

Жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords Well then, I better look into getting Logos! I do have e-books, but for me e-books are a last resort when I either can't get a physical copy or the cost is prohibitive (I usually don't mind paying more for a physical copy). Maybe I need to change my thinking. I'm a millennial and a fresh-new-book-smell-addict. It's hard to switch!

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

@@masaomorinaga6412 I never push paper people toward ebooks. I wish I were a paper person fairly often. But I'm not. I can't seem to get permission to read a paper book-not from my busy family or my busy job. =) I read electronically. Also, I find that reading reference works is best in Logos, not necessarily reading books cover to cover (though I do that, too). I would be very frustrated if I had to look up Bible verses and Greek and Hebrew lexical information on paper. I tried it for a while and switched permanently to Bible software.

@masaomorinaga6412

Жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords Sorry if I sounded sarcastic (I was playing along with your ongoing joke about promoting Logos). I genuinely see the benefits of teaching from a laptop with Logos (my pastor has shown it to me) and it's an area I wish to work on.

Thank you Mark, you got me to think about reading the Bible in a different way!

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

@felixmarinjr.66

Жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords Have you ever considered righting a book on Bible translation? There are a few good ones out there. But you can share your own experiences and encourage people with your many good points, including not be afraid of different Bible translations and be good Bereans, and be enriched by them? I have watched several of your videos and have learned a lot. Thank you again.

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

@@felixmarinjr.66 amzn.to/2r27Boz ;) And I have another book contracted. And another one planned.

@felixmarinjr.66

Жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords I didn’t know. I just ordered one of your books on Amazon. Biblical Worldview.

Interesting video! It really made me reconsider trying readers' Bibles. I think the very first question at 34:00 addresses an issue that he seems to have overlooked though, and potentially the most important typographic issue. Scholars have increasingly considered the importance of the ordering of biblical books, particularly the OT, and found significant interpretive implications. He said that we don't know where the order came from (that of our English Bibles), but the Jews had an order that preceded our order (the Tanakh ordering) that should definitely be considered. The very example he listed of reading through Chronicles and THEN Ezra goes against that Tanakh ordering. Anyone interested in this should read Stephen Dempster's Dominion and Dynasty, anything written by John Sailhamer, or Christ and the New Creation by Matt Emerson. I'm convinced we miss many important interpretive points because we read with a mostly chronological ordering that mixes up the original.

@markwardonwords

9 жыл бұрын

I've read Dempster-great book. I don't remember reading about the order of the books... Do you remember where he discusses it? I've been wanting to read up on this topic. I'm a bit skeptical at this point that the order of the Bible books is very significant-or that something other than a chronological order could bear a significance that readers could actually be expected to pick up. That is, it's hard enough to keep the "big picture" of the Bible in your mind as you read when that "big picture" is a story, namely redemptive history. Reading the Bible with sensitivity to where books appear in a non-chronological canon seems to me to demand what in Relevance Theory would be called (if I remember right) too much "processing power." It's too many watermelons to hold. But I'd honestly love to be shown that I'm wrong! If there's more insight to be had into reading my Bible, I want it.

@ReconciledByFaith

9 жыл бұрын

Mark Ward Jr Thanks for the response! I'm surprised you don't remember Dempster discussing order, because his book was largely an attempt to show the fruit of following a methodology sensitive to the Hebrew Bible order. The intro begins to discuss order on p. 20 and gets more specific on p. 30-35, then builds on that idea for the rest of the intro; p. 34-5 explains that sequence always suggests meaning, which fits in well with the sorts of things you discussed in this video. Chapter 2 is an overview of the significance of the Tanakh ordering, and he follows that order as he goes through the book, which produces some significant insights (such as the "seams" between the major sections of Law, Prophets, Writings) and some interesting interpretations (such as his take on Ruth). His point about the implications of Chronicles ending the OT under the Tanakh ordering is very persuasive to me (p. 223-227). I can understand your skepticism. However, if the biblical authors intended to communicate by the shaping and ordering of their work, whether that is intuitive to us or not, we should recognize it. It seems to make sense to me that Scriptures are simple enough to be understood by a child, but complex enough to awe a literary expert. Anyway, maybe none of that was helpful or persuasive, but since you said you want to read up on the topic, I would recommend googling James Hamilton's (SBTS prof.) blog post "How should the books of the OT be ordered?," Sailhamer's article "The Messiah and the Hebrew Bible," and maybe Matthew Emerson's blog post "The Order of the Books of the New Testament" for some short and free discussions. As far as books, Sailhamer's OT Intro or his tome "The Meaning of the Pentateuch" deal extensively with order, God's Glory in Salvation Through Judgment from Hamilton addresses it, Jason Derouchie's new OT Intro follows Tanakh ordering, Matt Emerson's aforementioned "Christ and the New Creation" does a great job clearly and concisely outlining the issues, and a book like Robert Cole's "Ps. 1 & 2: The Gateway to the Psalter" speaks of an ordered approach to reading the Psalms. God bless!

@markwardonwords

9 жыл бұрын

It's coming back to me! My focus in reading Dempster was more on his insights into redemptive history and into literary features of the various corpora. Looks like I need to take another look. I do remember him remarking on the way the Tanakh ends, that's all. That was a number of years ago. Thanks for the recommendations. I will definitely look those up.

Watched this 8 years after it was published. Now I know why I prefer single-column, paragraph style. Sadly, I think there are still no reader's editions in Spanish. Thank you very much for this.

@markwardonwords

7 ай бұрын

Really!? You think there'd be a market for it?

@windpeoples

7 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords there seems to be an ebook version of the NVI (Spanish NIV). But perhaps a printed readers version of the Reina Valera 1960 would have enough sales.

This was an incredible talk. You did a great job at articulating the finer points of typography in an approachable way that is devoid of snobbery, which we designers are often accused of. :) Have you received your copy of Bibliotheca yet? It looks like the project has been moved to a preorder stage and I'd love to hear your thoughts once you get your hands on a copy. I'm considering the preorder but I think I'd want to hear feedback before making the investment.

@markwardonwords

8 жыл бұрын

+Ben Hamilton I haven't gotten Bibliotheca yet, but I can wait. It'll be worth it, I'm confident.

This lecture makes sense. Though, my understanding of the chapter & verse numbering was only for referencing.

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Right! It's only for reference. It's useful, but not necessary!

I know this video is 6 years old at this time but I just found it today, am nearly done watching, but had to pause to do two things. 1. Order me a copy (got the one pictured in the video) and 2. Take the time to like this video, subscribe to your channel and say THANK YOU! for such a wonderful video, idea. :)

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

So glad you enjoyed this!

This guy wouldve been extremely useful back in the days of Gutenberg.😊

This was really good. Reading Hebrews straight through several times changed my understanding. Do you know if there are readers in the NKJV?

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

No, I don’t! I suspect one may come. But I do not know.

Brother, excellent presentation. At 36:37 into your talk you mention, in response to a question, that Jesus numbered the psalms. I found that interesting and went looking for that spot but haven’t been able to locate it. Could you, or someone on this thread, point me to that place where Jesus made reference to a numbered psalm? Thank you, in advance. I so much appreciate your talks and your presentation of the information. I just stumbled upon your work recently.

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

I misspoke! It was Paul! “This he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second Psalm, ‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you.’” (Acts 13:33 ESV)

@clintdona9857

8 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords Brother, I want to thank you for your graciousness in replying to my question. I was taken by surprise that you deigned to reply to such a question and that you even read my comments. As I mentioned before, I stumbled upon your site a few weeks ago, but have now made it a favorite of mine. “In all my born days”, (I date myself with that phrase), I have seldom, if ever heard a more articulate, careful, caring teacher. It is a huge pleasure to sit listening to you, to stand, even. Thank you very much for you ministry.

How do you like the Crossway ESV multi-volume Reader’s Bible set?

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Honestly, I don't tend to like multi-volume Bibles, even though theoretically I should… I gave away or sold all the ones I've had-except for the NIV Sola Scriptura. I think I will make my way through that some day. It's really beautiful. But if you like multi-volume Bibles, the ESV Reader's Bible set is great! I'm not the biggest fan of Trinité, the font they used, but that is a TINY complaint about an otherwise awesome project. When I began giving attention to these themes 15 years ago or so, I could only dream of having such beautiful options in multiple good translations.

You seem very fond of the ESV. The more I read it, the less I like it. I just feel it's full of awkward phrases. I'm a professional editor and I constantly see things that make me want to get the red pen out. For example, the ESV make it sound like it's the thief on the cross who says "Today, you will be with me in Paradise" (the nearest antecedent to "he said" is the thief, not Jesus). Then there are clunky phrases like "have need", which nobody says in English.

@Jd-808

3 ай бұрын

One of the goals of the ESV was to retain the sound of the KJV, which is where those phrases you consider clunky come from. Personally I like it. But a significant problem with the ESV is some very biased translations in select places

That is the exact problem I have. I read more than one translation, they don’t agree, I get confused and aggravated, and I have TO CHOOSE which I THINK is right. That is not right!

@markwardonwords

10 ай бұрын

Then read one modern translation or let this be a spur to you to do some study. Read a book like How to Choose a Translation for All Its Worth. Learn why translations have minor differences.

Hi there hope things are ok in your city... I would like to buy a Reader's... A video on your top 5 for 2021 would be most helpful 🙂

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Boy… That's tough. Off the top of my head, I really like the ESV Readers Bible (I prefer the single-volume edition, but the six-volume is also very nice). One-volume: www.amazon.com/dp/1433544148?tag=3755-20 Multi-volume: www.amazon.com/dp/1433553473?tag=3755-20 I also really like the NIV Sola Scriptura project. That was really well done. www.amazon.com/dp/0310448123?tag=3755-20 The columns in the CSB Readers Bible are a mite (just a mite!) narrow for my tastes, but otherwise it is an excellent edition. www.amazon.com/dp/1462777945?tag=3755-20 Those are top of mind!

@patriciapification

2 жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords much appreciated!

@patriciapification

2 жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords I bought your 1st recommendation... ESV for a great price...if I enjoy it I will most likely consider a CSB set ~ thanks again!

You mentioned that you don't like the typography in the Evangelical Parallel Bible. Is there a parallel Bible that you most recommend now? Besides Logos of course. :)

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

I haven't seen a physical one in a long time. Maybe 15 years? It feels to me like the advent of the smartphone killed the format. I do have Hebrew-English and Greek-English parallel Bibles from Crossway (original language on one page, English on the other side of the spread), and those are beautiful. I've seen German-English and Spanish-English parallel Bibles Crossway has done, and they too are great. I'd love to find out if there's a beautiful parallel Bible out there. Tell me if you discover one! I do use Logos (and BibleWorks!), so I just don't need the physical book anymore. Since Crossway sent me a review copy, I've been using the Hebrew-English and Greek-English volumes at church.

Are there better reader's editions than the ESV Reader's Edition? It still has chapter numbers interrupting the flow, it would be nice to have a ESV that's actually affordable and has all those characteristics.

@markwardonwords

Ай бұрын

Yes! www.amazon.com/dp/1433553473?tag=3755-20 And you can find these used in very good condition online, I think.

This is why I believe mass produced Bibles are garbage (except my first readers were pew Bibles, and I liked them because they didn't have EXTRA STUFF all over the page). Get a premium Schuyler (personal favorite), Allan, or Cambridge, and see what a difference it makes in your Bible reading. They are WELL worth the extra $$$. All of it matters when it comes to choosing a Bible. Double vs single column, paragraph vs verse, black vs red letter, font type, font size, line spacing, line matching, paper texture, paper color, paper opacity, binding type, finished dimensions, weight, calf skin vs goat skin... It ALL matters. You'll never know what works for you until you understand what the options are. I stumbled on this fact when I finally read through the entire Bible my first time. In spite of having grown up with a Thompson chain reference NIV78 and several other study Bibles, the one I couldn't put down was a compact KJV! I picked it up as an exercise in nerdiness just so I'd have one to reference and I am a linguist. It wasn't until half way through I realized why I loved it so much- it was small and light enough to hold in one hand for long periods of time, had a very readable font, and there were no references with all of their distracting superscripts and notes... Just a very clean page. And then I remembered what my mother used to say about typography and it all made sense (she was a typographer and graphics designer from the "pre computer" days). I am very glad that publishers and printers now are taking Bible design seriously. And if you get a chance... Schuyler Quentels are now becoming available in a wide margin format.... Lol.

@markwardonwords

4 жыл бұрын

I do need to get one of those Schuyler Quentels…

@freegracerevival

2 жыл бұрын

You know there are third world christians who get killed for just having a Bible hey? Reckon they think they’re garbage?

"I had my translations picked out for my kids before I even had a wife" Relatable, very relatable.

@markwardonwords

7 ай бұрын

Yup.

@Roescoe

7 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords And not only Bible versions, but also musical instruments, languages, books, and more that I want to share. Now all I need is a wife to make it happen. Thanks for your humor. Even though I didn't grow up KJVO I've learned a lot about translation through your channel. Many thanks.

Where there paragraphs in the original texts?

@markwardonwords

10 ай бұрын

Yes and no! There weren't paragraphs like ours in Hebrew and Greek in ancient times. But there were other line breaks.

Thank you for this talk. I started out with the NKJV. I didn't grow up with a religious background, but I do have a learning disability and a very slow reader. I like the NKJV, but I don't like how it's laid out. I don't like all of the interruptions and all of the sub titles in the text. It is so distracting. I like the flow of the ESV. Am I wrong to focus on the NKJV layout?

@k80.01

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely not! I think it’s a completely valid point!

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I agree. A valid point. Find-among the major modern evangelical English Bible translations-the translation and layout that most helps you read!

@peterpascone6942

Жыл бұрын

@@k80.01 thank you 😊

@peterpascone6942

Жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords thank you 😊

The New King James Version does not have the M dashes in Isaiah 52, but the 21st Century King James Version does have the M Dashes in Isaiah 52.

@markwardonwords

11 ай бұрын

✔

Mark, what is the 19th century edition shown at 21:39?

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

Honestly, it's just been too long. I don't recall! Certain I found it on Google Books.

A great idea. But I read better out of like a Concord or Turquoise. Paragraph distracts me. I don’t know why but I’ll give it a try. I love to read before all else. I have a CSB Reader’s Bible.

@markwardonwords

4 жыл бұрын

I won't push others who are accustomed to other typesets to do things my way. =) But I have just been doing some outlining/paragraphing work for a commentary series (long story) and I have come to see over and over again how helpful and necessary paragraphs are. I *think* that for most readers, sticking close to conventions standard in the rest of English is best. And that means paragraphs.

@miguelramos1855

4 жыл бұрын

What bible translation do you recommend for Sunday school teacher

@markwardonwords

4 жыл бұрын

​@@miguelramos1855, whatever your pastor recommends. But if you have a choice, go for whatever helps your class best.

@miguelramos1855

4 жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords Thank you for responding I have been praying all week I have used the niv so long my class is common people with common language but I would like to move up a little more literal translation but am a little worried about my class dont know if I should continue with niv or switch to another translation I would like to use another translation for my self also the problem is that what I teach from is also what I read for myself can you recommend a translation or should I continue with niv thank you

Or, why I dislike the NRSV: the section headings are some sort of helvetica and feel like they should be directions in a subway.

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Ha! I’m with you! Helvetica has its place, but not there I’d think.

I don't like when they put verse numbers in there at all. That's distracting in Braille because it balls up the flow of the text. I know we need verse numbers so we can tell where we're at, but grrr. I'm glad they don't do that in audio Bibles.

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting! Right!

First, kudos for the lecture; good stuff indeed. However, some "quibbles." The Bible, as an ancient book does not necessarily conform to modern standards of writing. Some of it (such as the letters of Paul) suggest that he was not writing, but dictating to a secretary. This means, that the very concept of a "paragraph" is a little different from modern styles. The only way to really understand the text is by reading, re-reading and re-re-reading until one's mind is saturated with the material (e.g., Joshua 1:8, Colossians 3:16, etc.). Punctuation, paragraph divisions and verse numbering are all insertions and cannot substitute for how the Bible was intended to be read, and re-read, and re-re-read... ;-)

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

I don't disagree with your supporting arguments, but I do disagree with your conclusion. Paragraphing and punctuation are part of written English, part of the language. Translation isn't complete until those editorial decisions are made. There is no neutrality here: leaving out paragraph divisions or punctuation in order to leave those to the reader is also a choice that will convey meaning. It would be better, I think, for Bible translators to keep making these (minor, usually easy and obvious) editorial judgments and then only in hermeneutics materials reminding readers that such editorial judgments are human judgments. Translation itself is chock full of human judgments, and yet God still commends it, I think.

@therealkillerb7643

Жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords Fair enough; but while firmly affirming perspicuity, I really do think that pastors have a duty to teach people how to understand their Bibles (cf. Ephesians 4:11ff) which entails, introducing them to thinking in terms of cultural context. Most "Bible studies" in my humble opinion, are more like Rorschach ink blot tests than serious analysis of the text, because most Christians are not willing to do the little bit of work necessary. But, as stated in my first post, this is a quibble and I appreciate your work.

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

@@therealkillerb7643 No disagreement here with your comment about pastors’ duty!

I've been a fan for a while, but am late to this one. What's the Bible of choice for 2024?

@markwardonwords

Ай бұрын

Depends on the translation. For the ESV I love the single column legacy.

@backtoschool1611

2 күн бұрын

KJV.

You must know about Readable Bible? Yes?

@markwardonwords

4 жыл бұрын

Yes-heard of it!

What is so bad about Comic Sans {2:37}? After all, it's not as though it were on a business invitation.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

It's good for signage at a preschool. It does genuinely have important uses. But on wedding invitations, I have my standards. ;)

@QHarefield

5 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords 😄

We don't have all that in Braille, just straight text, and also footnotes and commentary slapped right in the middle of the text should be illegal. I'm looking at you, KJV study Bible produced by Christian Records Service. I'm also horrified by the thought of columns, which will cause blind readers to want to chuck the book across the room, which is not a great idea when it's the word of God, and also because it's very heavy.

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Ha! That is a funny image!

@thetickedoffpianoplayer4193

2 жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords Yeah, considering that a Braille Bible even without commentary is 18 volumes that are probably the size of your Oxford English dictionary. The one I had with the annoying commentary that went on and on was 22 great big volumes. No one wants to see one of those chucked across the room, especially by someone with non-working eyeballs.

I have always wondered what the Jewish Bible would look like in chr. order. 2 Chr. is the last book of the Tanakh/Jewish Bible. Yet the history and events do NOT end there. Daniel, Esther, and Ezra all happened AFTER 2 Chr.!!!!!!

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

I really profited from that experience.

@curtthegamer934

2 жыл бұрын

I'm actually working on a "Chronological Bible" project using the public domain World English Bible as a source for the text. I already finished combining the Gospels together, and I'm working on doing the Old Testament now. I also have a disclaimer at the start that it's not intended to replace actual scripture, and that, despite my attempts to stay true to the text of scripture, there's going to be personal interpretation in there in certain places in order to harmonize certain passages.

@P_Ezi

Жыл бұрын

I realize this is an old discussion of an old video, but I recently finished the "Day by Day Chronological Bible" in CSB. It is not a true readers edition (as it does have verse numbers), but it does place everything into a good estimate of chronological order. I chose this for a complete read-through, and I was very happy with the perspective I gained with prophetic writings and Psalms distributed in chronological context. However, the biggest help to me was seeing Paul's letters in context within the book of Acts. I am very glad to have used this resource for a read through. If a true reader's edition was available with this same order, I would certainly buy several to hand out to friends and family. Also, my approach was just like the one advocated by Mark Ward: read entire stories or sections and plow ahead. I completely ignored the suggested "daily" stopping points. This can be accomplished much more quickly than a year.

king james punctuation?

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

It’s an older set of conventions.

Mark, I have the Readable Bible. Have you seen this bible?

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

No! Tell me! Got an isbn?

read carefully and with diligence aka with DISCIPLNE a dirty word these days . and, unless you are getting old as I am (age 65 and wondering how I got here so fast) and your sight is failing I seriously contend that typography is IRRELEVANT